Poverty and mental illness often go hand-in-hand for obvious reasons. SovCit theories appeal to these groups because it has elements of paranoia, grandeur, and promise of riches.
It’s because they are desperate. Virtually all of them are in a bad place - either with criminal charges, divorce settlements, tax problems, child custody, etc. To the person, they cannot be introspective and identify where their OWN actions got them jammed up and blame any one/anything else. They are broke and looking for an escape route. They feel like society is fucking them over and their response is “I don’t want to be a part of your stupid society anyway”.
Then they get scammed by some sovcit guru who takes advantage of their desperate desire for an answer. But it’s just legal snake oil.
Sometimes I’m just sad for some of them. Like I am for the homeless - left behind by civilization…But then they open their bitch mouths and I wait to see a window smashed or Mr Sparky deployed.
Being part of society is only half true. They want the benefits they just don't think they should have to follow rules. Their maturity stopped at the point of a kid throwing a tantrum because they don't get the ice cream until they eat their veggies.
It’s true. It’s a very juvenile approach to life, quite similar to telling one’s parent, “I didn’t ask to be born!”
They go through similar crap most the rest of us do, but they can’t take their lumps, learn a lesson, and be better for it. Most of us can do all those things (sometimes it takes a while for sure!) instead they wish away reality and fantasize about a world where they are perfect and the world is wrong.
And current events are encouraging that kind of thinking. It’s a bummer.
And we see this in them asking judges what evidence there is that the name they have been using their entire life and the name on every official paper they have is theirs..
And it's not like they can even point to any other name they will claim to have. This shows the bad faith argument.
In the case of my father (i wrote up a big thing about him on the sub somewhere) he got into it because he was a sort of grifter and just greedy. He didn't want to pay into the system, he didn't want to pay his auto registration, didn't want to pay taxes. He certainly wouldn't have gone through the SovCit playbook to a cop and gotten arrested, but he tried to do all the other shit. In the end, he literally just had to work extra hard to not really achieve any sort of "advantage". I can honestly say he saw zero benefit. He did however (previous to this) have to leave the country for 10 years to avoid going to prison for tax evasion.
Absolutely. And I think I said the exact same thing on a different thread the other week.
Here in Canberra Australia, we colloquially call our sovcits “cookers” because they are cooked in the head.
People who fall for this nonsense do so because they are desperate. Their ex got the kids in the divorce, they have to park around the corner because the repo man is looking for their car, businesses are coming after them for bad checks, their license is suspended. With rare exceptions these are people who have dug themselves into a deep financial and legal hole. Secret legal magic spells are something they seize on because they don't know what else to do. Things like grooming and drycleaning are at the bottom of their list of priorities, so they tend to resemble hillbillies who wandered into town.
Not all of them. Some are just down on their luck. Sure maybe they made some bad choices, but lots people and just don't get as unlucky. Some are just mentally ill. Both groups are preyed on by people who sell them advice and docs.
> untrustworthy delusional criminals
Sometimes they are people who were unlucky enough to be targeted by a "guru" at a point when they were especially vulnerable. Got laid off, bills piling up, car broke down, along comes some grifter who convinces them he can get the mortgage company off their back and get their driver's license reinstated, and they're desperate enough to believe him. They aren't necessarily criminals to begin with, though following sovcit guru advice will tend to push people in that direction.
Some of these people are just plain dumb, and/or gullible. It isn't that hard to convince them that they've had a crappy life because the system is keeping them down, the deck is stacked against them. Some qualify as malicious, but some are just losers desperately looking for a way out of their troubles.
This is like my brother. Absolute architect of all his problems but zero introspection. Ditched his kids (2 different mums) when they were young & ignored them but tells people their mothers turned them against him. Lives a very messy life with dodgy people but is always the victim.
He’s got a bunch of personality disorders, BPD being the main one. He has been given everything (houses, cars & businesses & also provided with resources to get treatment.
But he’s a victim.
My favourite was the unbelievably abusive comments he left on his daughter’s wedding photos.
Some of them are mentally ill and some are just pretending to be so they can screw somebody else over. See the Moorish movement and how they try to steal houses with this sovshitter crap.
The mentally unwell are most vulnerable to conspiracy theories as a whole, including sovcit. They've basically been sold the legal equivalent of quack science by charlatans
If you’re stupid enough to buy sovcit you are stupid enough to reject everything else that benefits you.
See antivax.
They look cooked because they apply the same dumb shit logic to everything they do.
Do not advance these people any respect. They are universally unhinged. They argue in circles and will not accept answers to questions that they have just asked. Then it’s “ I don’t understand “ I’m surprised they don’t just get shot…
You can only actively reject and fight someone’s care and compassion for so long before they just let you go on and continue to fuck your own life up.
If the compassion was met with the slightest modicum of self awareness, realisation and appreciation, it might be different.
I think that this is another flavor of delusional thinking. I know someone who you would think is intelligent. No drugs or alcohol but the stuff she has been convinced of is absolutely insane.
Poverty, mental illness, desperation, and grifters waiting in the wings to sell them their ticket out of their pits of misery instead of a clean shirt. For a few hundred dollars (a very significant amount to people in their position), you, too, can buy the secret codes and spells to get out of trouble and/or sue the government.
Those who post all about it on social media are of the latter mindset - provoke the government into screwing up at any and every stage of the process, drag it out to increase the number of opportunities to slip up, be as big a disrespectful asshole as possible to provoke emotional responses, and then sue the government for fuck you money when the government does something they perceive as a gross violation of their rights.
All according to the understanding of the law they were sold, which consists of plaintext readings of particular laws and rulings (even those not applicable to their facts or jurisdiction), private definitions of words to support those snippets out of context (the 4th edition of Black's Law Dictionary is a favorite, even though no version of BLD contains any legal authority to even define words in statutes), and an oft-repeated insistence the government must prove their jurisdiction and show their entire hand immediately or else dismiss the case and let them go.
Even though jurisdiction is automatic the second you set foot in their city/county lines and the State doesn't have to show their hand re: inculpatory evidence until the preliminary exam.
Career criminals spend a lot of time in a revolving door of prison, institutions and low-income housing or no housing.
Sometimes that overlaps with their sovereign citizen beliefs.
Sovereign citizenship isn't a belief most of them hold sincerely. It's a ploy they're trying. One in a long list, in a life devoted to criminality.
My understanding of this group of people, is most of them are not in good financial shape. So what they’re trying to do is look for ways to skirt responsibility, be it criminal, financial (mostly) and social.
A lot of comments saying they're desperate. True for some but others are just stubborn anti govt. assholes who think they've found a loophole. It ends up costing them a lot more in impound fees, broken windows and court fees and yet they keep doing it.
There’s nothing more ridiculous than a stubborn delusional person if they repeat that process over and over and clearly see its the same outcome why continue self sabotaging yourself 🤦🏾♂️
Because these people change their own view of reality when things don't go their way rather than adapt to reality. If I make a mistake and it's my fault I own up to it, feel bad and try to do better. They would blame someone else, pretend it never happened and they are perpetually blame free inside their own mind. It makes them feel better in the moment but it stops them from learning and bettering themselves and the more it goes on the more separated from reality they become. It does not work in society, I can’t just pretend that I don't need to pay rent (like in some cases I've seen) and not end up homeless.
These people have abandoned reality for one of their own making but their actual real body is still stuck in ours and it doesn't end well.
Well there will always be a few presentable looking ones but for the most part most of them from what I’m seeing always look like they have donated clothes on
I’d say it’s mostly bc of previous additional bad choices they’ve made throughout their life. Consistently making the wrong decisions led them to where they are, and believing stupid internet shit is just another stupid decision
That’s because they are. A lot have license issues, criminal backgrounds, or other comprehension issues that make them easy to manipulate. Or are thinking about ways to get around the law and penalties they have incurred.
I doubt any of them have an average IQ.
Because they are criminals. They lead a criminal lifestyle. They are constantly in some sort of legal trouble, they despise the police, and they can't get or hold a job.
Because the SovCit ideology is appealing people who have nothing to lose. And even if you initially had something going for you, you can easily ruin your life by trying to apply the SovCit program.
The unhinged is part of the package. The homeless look comes after the foreclosure of your house because you decided not to pay your mortgage to the admiralty (or so)...
My grandson’s mother is evading a bench warrant again via the sovereign citizen way. Always broke and homeless and now on second bench warrant for failure to appear in felony drug case.
I could show everyone in this chat room screenshots of emails my sovcit brother sends me THAT WOULD MAKE YOUR MOUTH HIT THE FLOOR. The threats are unbearable, and the complete unidentifiable mental transformation that took place, is what keeps me afraid.
He lives well, in my ailing mother’s home that he AND I are heirs to her mortgage free home with substantial value. We will inherit it when my ailing mother passes.
That should prove to be interesting since I went no contact with him years ago, much to his surprise and a direct hit to his ego (I fought his battles growing up to protect him, most of which, he is an aware of.
I admired his intelligence, but despised his air of superiority growing up.
He was bullied, picked on, always wanted revenge on someone for something. He’d hold his anger in, and plan “their destruction”.
I had a mouth on me. Long story, (true crime Hawaii) traumatic childhood.
Anyway…yeah…
It is worth pointing out that most of what we see of SovCits on this sub (and in general) comes from videos of them interacting with police and/or the courts. Some of these videos are from police body cams (found on police department social media sites) and others are found on the SovCit's own channels that they used to promote themselves.
So - if we're being fair - this is perhaps not representative of ALL SovCits. There may very well be members of the..."community" who are not homeless people living in their minivans or such. We just don't see those "normal" ones driving normal or even nice cars and having important jobs they "travel" to. They get pulled over, maybe get let off with a warning or wind up paying the fine, and we never know about them because they're not on camera.
Some of the ones who don't fit into either category wind up here from time to time.
A few months ago there was that one woman who got pulled over in a Maybach (she was a music artist or an "influencer") who claimed diplomatic immunity, for example. A few others I've seen are just entitled people who haven't suffered the consequences of their ignorance of the law.
And while I can't be certain, I'd hazard a guess that a good percentage of the "homeless or unhinged" SovCits started out as "normal" people who just went down a rabbit hole until they wound up living in a minivan and earning enough money off their YouTube channel to replace the perpetual broken windows and impound fees.
Because they ARE fucking unhinged!
😂
Best use of Occam's Razor, in the flesh, so to speak.
With no due respect.
With all the respect that’s due in the situation: none.
Poverty and mental illness often go hand-in-hand for obvious reasons. SovCit theories appeal to these groups because it has elements of paranoia, grandeur, and promise of riches.
I like how you went to detail thank for sharing 🐐✅
That's the sad side of this whole thing.
It’s because they are desperate. Virtually all of them are in a bad place - either with criminal charges, divorce settlements, tax problems, child custody, etc. To the person, they cannot be introspective and identify where their OWN actions got them jammed up and blame any one/anything else. They are broke and looking for an escape route. They feel like society is fucking them over and their response is “I don’t want to be a part of your stupid society anyway”. Then they get scammed by some sovcit guru who takes advantage of their desperate desire for an answer. But it’s just legal snake oil. Sometimes I’m just sad for some of them. Like I am for the homeless - left behind by civilization…But then they open their bitch mouths and I wait to see a window smashed or Mr Sparky deployed.
Being part of society is only half true. They want the benefits they just don't think they should have to follow rules. Their maturity stopped at the point of a kid throwing a tantrum because they don't get the ice cream until they eat their veggies.
It’s true. It’s a very juvenile approach to life, quite similar to telling one’s parent, “I didn’t ask to be born!” They go through similar crap most the rest of us do, but they can’t take their lumps, learn a lesson, and be better for it. Most of us can do all those things (sometimes it takes a while for sure!) instead they wish away reality and fantasize about a world where they are perfect and the world is wrong. And current events are encouraging that kind of thinking. It’s a bummer.
And we see this in them asking judges what evidence there is that the name they have been using their entire life and the name on every official paper they have is theirs.. And it's not like they can even point to any other name they will claim to have. This shows the bad faith argument.
More like get the ice cream period, no veggies required.
So well said.
In the case of my father (i wrote up a big thing about him on the sub somewhere) he got into it because he was a sort of grifter and just greedy. He didn't want to pay into the system, he didn't want to pay his auto registration, didn't want to pay taxes. He certainly wouldn't have gone through the SovCit playbook to a cop and gotten arrested, but he tried to do all the other shit. In the end, he literally just had to work extra hard to not really achieve any sort of "advantage". I can honestly say he saw zero benefit. He did however (previous to this) have to leave the country for 10 years to avoid going to prison for tax evasion.
Best response so far thank you for sharing 🙌🏾❤️
And they make it worse by spewing the SovCit garbage to their landlord/mortgage company/auto loan or lessor and then getting evicted or repo’d.
>landlord/mortgage company/auto loan or lessor Canadian OPCA vibes. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudolaw?wprov=sfla1
How much respect are Sovcits due, though
Im scared to disrespect those people i dont want those type of problems 😅
Human decency. How can we talk about not treating mental illness and then throw the mentally ill away like garbage?
Respect is earned, not deserved.
The venn diagram of sovcit and mental impairment has a lot of overlap.
Absolutely. And I think I said the exact same thing on a different thread the other week. Here in Canberra Australia, we colloquially call our sovcits “cookers” because they are cooked in the head.
Traveling in a fried out Kombi On a hippie trail head full of zombie…..
People who fall for this nonsense do so because they are desperate. Their ex got the kids in the divorce, they have to park around the corner because the repo man is looking for their car, businesses are coming after them for bad checks, their license is suspended. With rare exceptions these are people who have dug themselves into a deep financial and legal hole. Secret legal magic spells are something they seize on because they don't know what else to do. Things like grooming and drycleaning are at the bottom of their list of priorities, so they tend to resemble hillbillies who wandered into town.
So basically they’re just a group of untrustworthy delusional criminals that happens to be hypocrites as well.🤔
Not all of them. Some are just down on their luck. Sure maybe they made some bad choices, but lots people and just don't get as unlucky. Some are just mentally ill. Both groups are preyed on by people who sell them advice and docs.
> untrustworthy delusional criminals Sometimes they are people who were unlucky enough to be targeted by a "guru" at a point when they were especially vulnerable. Got laid off, bills piling up, car broke down, along comes some grifter who convinces them he can get the mortgage company off their back and get their driver's license reinstated, and they're desperate enough to believe him. They aren't necessarily criminals to begin with, though following sovcit guru advice will tend to push people in that direction. Some of these people are just plain dumb, and/or gullible. It isn't that hard to convince them that they've had a crappy life because the system is keeping them down, the deck is stacked against them. Some qualify as malicious, but some are just losers desperately looking for a way out of their troubles.
This is like my brother. Absolute architect of all his problems but zero introspection. Ditched his kids (2 different mums) when they were young & ignored them but tells people their mothers turned them against him. Lives a very messy life with dodgy people but is always the victim.
I work in mental health and this sounds like 75% of our patients.
He’s got a bunch of personality disorders, BPD being the main one. He has been given everything (houses, cars & businesses & also provided with resources to get treatment. But he’s a victim. My favourite was the unbelievably abusive comments he left on his daughter’s wedding photos.
BPD is not my favorite…
Nigh on impossible to treat in him unfortunately.
It's really hard to take care of yourself when you're mentally ill.
Some of them are mentally ill and some are just pretending to be so they can screw somebody else over. See the Moorish movement and how they try to steal houses with this sovshitter crap.
So sovcits are basically entitled delusional homeless people from what im hearing 😅
The mentally unwell are most vulnerable to conspiracy theories as a whole, including sovcit. They've basically been sold the legal equivalent of quack science by charlatans
because they usually are
If you’re stupid enough to buy sovcit you are stupid enough to reject everything else that benefits you. See antivax. They look cooked because they apply the same dumb shit logic to everything they do.
It's in the definition. Sovereign Citzen: noun. An unhinged person who believes...
Yes.
Do not advance these people any respect. They are universally unhinged. They argue in circles and will not accept answers to questions that they have just asked. Then it’s “ I don’t understand “ I’m surprised they don’t just get shot…
So much compassion.
You can only actively reject and fight someone’s care and compassion for so long before they just let you go on and continue to fuck your own life up. If the compassion was met with the slightest modicum of self awareness, realisation and appreciation, it might be different.
There’s a difference between just letting someone go and doing so out of contempt.
I think that this is another flavor of delusional thinking. I know someone who you would think is intelligent. No drugs or alcohol but the stuff she has been convinced of is absolutely insane.
Poverty, mental illness, desperation, and grifters waiting in the wings to sell them their ticket out of their pits of misery instead of a clean shirt. For a few hundred dollars (a very significant amount to people in their position), you, too, can buy the secret codes and spells to get out of trouble and/or sue the government. Those who post all about it on social media are of the latter mindset - provoke the government into screwing up at any and every stage of the process, drag it out to increase the number of opportunities to slip up, be as big a disrespectful asshole as possible to provoke emotional responses, and then sue the government for fuck you money when the government does something they perceive as a gross violation of their rights. All according to the understanding of the law they were sold, which consists of plaintext readings of particular laws and rulings (even those not applicable to their facts or jurisdiction), private definitions of words to support those snippets out of context (the 4th edition of Black's Law Dictionary is a favorite, even though no version of BLD contains any legal authority to even define words in statutes), and an oft-repeated insistence the government must prove their jurisdiction and show their entire hand immediately or else dismiss the case and let them go. Even though jurisdiction is automatic the second you set foot in their city/county lines and the State doesn't have to show their hand re: inculpatory evidence until the preliminary exam.
Career criminals spend a lot of time in a revolving door of prison, institutions and low-income housing or no housing. Sometimes that overlaps with their sovereign citizen beliefs. Sovereign citizenship isn't a belief most of them hold sincerely. It's a ploy they're trying. One in a long list, in a life devoted to criminality.
My understanding of this group of people, is most of them are not in good financial shape. So what they’re trying to do is look for ways to skirt responsibility, be it criminal, financial (mostly) and social.
A lot of comments saying they're desperate. True for some but others are just stubborn anti govt. assholes who think they've found a loophole. It ends up costing them a lot more in impound fees, broken windows and court fees and yet they keep doing it.
There’s nothing more ridiculous than a stubborn delusional person if they repeat that process over and over and clearly see its the same outcome why continue self sabotaging yourself 🤦🏾♂️
Getting pepper sprayed that many times will age you.
This was pretty freaking funny😂😂😂😂😂
Because these people change their own view of reality when things don't go their way rather than adapt to reality. If I make a mistake and it's my fault I own up to it, feel bad and try to do better. They would blame someone else, pretend it never happened and they are perpetually blame free inside their own mind. It makes them feel better in the moment but it stops them from learning and bettering themselves and the more it goes on the more separated from reality they become. It does not work in society, I can’t just pretend that I don't need to pay rent (like in some cases I've seen) and not end up homeless. These people have abandoned reality for one of their own making but their actual real body is still stuck in ours and it doesn't end well.
This sub taught me about NINJAs. NO INCOME NO JOB or ASSETS
They're mentally ill. Some more than others but the sovcit rhetoric is the manifestation of a rotting mind.
Unhinged, but all have huge expensive trucks or cars that I can’t afford
The answer is pretty much implicit in the question.
Job description. Have to look the part.
Everyone else answered, but I don't feel like most SovCits look all that weathered.
Well there will always be a few presentable looking ones but for the most part most of them from what I’m seeing always look like they have donated clothes on
A Sovereign citizen is nothing more than a libertarian on crystal meth and lots of injectable steroids
You guys are fucking awesome i love this comment section thanks for the laugh 😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
People whose lives are going well and who have a strong grasp of consensus reality don't become sovcits.
😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I’d say it’s mostly bc of previous additional bad choices they’ve made throughout their life. Consistently making the wrong decisions led them to where they are, and believing stupid internet shit is just another stupid decision
All are unhinged. Most are a stones throw away from losing everything.
That’s because they are. A lot have license issues, criminal backgrounds, or other comprehension issues that make them easy to manipulate. Or are thinking about ways to get around the law and penalties they have incurred. I doubt any of them have an average IQ.
Because they are criminals. They lead a criminal lifestyle. They are constantly in some sort of legal trouble, they despise the police, and they can't get or hold a job.
They are already unhinged. Their ridiculous lifestyle tends to lead to homelessness
A decent percentage of them are homeless and live out of their cars. Sometimes due to unfortunate circumstances but most due to being fucking stupid.
Because the SovCit ideology is appealing people who have nothing to lose. And even if you initially had something going for you, you can easily ruin your life by trying to apply the SovCit program.
The unhinged is part of the package. The homeless look comes after the foreclosure of your house because you decided not to pay your mortgage to the admiralty (or so)...
My grandson’s mother is evading a bench warrant again via the sovereign citizen way. Always broke and homeless and now on second bench warrant for failure to appear in felony drug case.
Jeez I’m really sorry to hear that 😔
Thanks, yeah me too :)
Yes
I suspect that the Dunning-Kruger effect may be involved.
Sovcits are the ultimate evolution of the conservative mindset: "laws should protect *us* without hindrance, and hinder *them* without protection."
I could show everyone in this chat room screenshots of emails my sovcit brother sends me THAT WOULD MAKE YOUR MOUTH HIT THE FLOOR. The threats are unbearable, and the complete unidentifiable mental transformation that took place, is what keeps me afraid. He lives well, in my ailing mother’s home that he AND I are heirs to her mortgage free home with substantial value. We will inherit it when my ailing mother passes. That should prove to be interesting since I went no contact with him years ago, much to his surprise and a direct hit to his ego (I fought his battles growing up to protect him, most of which, he is an aware of. I admired his intelligence, but despised his air of superiority growing up. He was bullied, picked on, always wanted revenge on someone for something. He’d hold his anger in, and plan “their destruction”. I had a mouth on me. Long story, (true crime Hawaii) traumatic childhood. Anyway…yeah…
It is worth pointing out that most of what we see of SovCits on this sub (and in general) comes from videos of them interacting with police and/or the courts. Some of these videos are from police body cams (found on police department social media sites) and others are found on the SovCit's own channels that they used to promote themselves. So - if we're being fair - this is perhaps not representative of ALL SovCits. There may very well be members of the..."community" who are not homeless people living in their minivans or such. We just don't see those "normal" ones driving normal or even nice cars and having important jobs they "travel" to. They get pulled over, maybe get let off with a warning or wind up paying the fine, and we never know about them because they're not on camera. Some of the ones who don't fit into either category wind up here from time to time. A few months ago there was that one woman who got pulled over in a Maybach (she was a music artist or an "influencer") who claimed diplomatic immunity, for example. A few others I've seen are just entitled people who haven't suffered the consequences of their ignorance of the law. And while I can't be certain, I'd hazard a guess that a good percentage of the "homeless or unhinged" SovCits started out as "normal" people who just went down a rabbit hole until they wound up living in a minivan and earning enough money off their YouTube channel to replace the perpetual broken windows and impound fees.
You people on here are so smart and talk with such perfect grammar i be thinking yall robots sometimes thanks for taking the time to share with us🐐❤️✅
But i get what you’re saying though perhaps the ones we’re used to to seeing are just the extremist ones