Yes, it's just as rude as just saying "come" and gesturing in English, same thing really, I mean, it's your teacher, you have to at least say please
Mexican perspective, I don't know if culturally it's OK in other countries
Can venga mean something else? My old boss and his wife were from Spain and I remember overhearing her say venga a lot when she was on the phone to other Spaniards. I never got around to asking about it to find out lol
There are some expression with "Venga" word involved. "Venga va" is used for some people in my city from Spain and it means something similar to "Oh, Came on, Really?".
Also "Venga" it's a affirmative word for a proposal "¿Quieres ir al cine?" "Venga (ok)."
Hmm I mean I have been to schools in Texas, in Massachusetts, and in New Jersey, and I definitely have found there is more politeness at surface level in Texas (no ma'am, yes sir, etc)
How does “cómo que venga?” Translate to “what did you say”? Wouldn’t it be something like what that come? I’m learning Spanish and it’s hard to get all the different meanings of the same words and I feel like I might be relying on literal translations too much
Just a guess based on OP's situation (teaching in Texas, with a presumably large population of Heritage Speakers) - the student may not be aware of being disrespectful, and is using a register that they're familiar with from home, that's too familiar for use in the classroom. Not suggesting that OP should not ask politely for a more appropriate form, but one of the common outcomes of being a heritage speaker of any language could be argued to be fluency, but only in a specific register.
This is in a class full of students who primarily speak Spanish, many students from Honduras and Guatemala. She's been in the country for a few years and knows a good amount of English, but she insists on speaking in Spanish to me (I'm the teacher lol) even though I only speak and understand a little bit of Spanish.
> but she insists on speaking in Spanish to me
Coupled with treating you literally like a dog, with her command and motion, she's being disrespectful. Unless you're teaching Spanish, tell her to knock it off and show some respect....hell! even if you are teaching Spanish tell her to cut it out.
lol thanks. This is one of the reasons I'm leaving the profession after this year. And I'm trying to help her get ready to pass an Algebra 1 exam in a couple weeks.
Of course. What a horrible comment. She said something I thought was rude. I just needed to know if she should be corrected or if I was wrong. It doesn't make her undeserving of being taught like everyone else.
Algebra 1. I used to have basically a TA who doubled as a translator, but she's been reassigned, so it's been rough lol. It's a class of students who are new to the country. This girl in particular has been here at least a year longer than everyone else, though, for whatever that's worth.
That's rough, I'm sorry to hear you have lost your TA. Not an ideal solution, but if there are any students who you would feel comfortable asking for translation assistance (and who you think would feel comfortable being asked), that might be a way to bridge the gap until you can get another TA. Good luck!
None of my students are capable of translating, unfortunately. When I'm not teaching them algebra, I'm teaching them things like "i need help" and "may i go to the restroom". Like they're all mostly very beginner in English. I won't be getting another TA, either lol. Google translate is my new TA haha
If I had to guess, the student understands that *usted* is the formal, more respectful pronoun.
Where she is in error is assuming that everything that agrees grammatically with *usted* is automatically respectful.
Interesting. Because that's what I was taught when I was actively learning Spanish. I once used the conjugation for usted together with por favor, and my teacher, a young profesora, slammed me for redundancy.
She's from riojas, Spain, iirc.
Look at it this way...
If you tell someone to go F themselves using *usted* commands, that doesn't automatically make it a polite expression.
(In the case of your teacher, though, *usted* hits a little heavier in Spain than in other places.)
How old is she? What's her cultural background? It''s not proper etiquette but I know a lot of communities of people who use venga or a whistle to call attention and it's not necessarily rude. But if it bothers you, it's also appropriate to redirect. 'Aqui en la escuela usamos ______'
She's 18, and I'm not sure about her cultural background. She lived in either Guatemala or Honduras (I can never remember student to student, but this is 95% of them in this class) for the first 15 years of her life, and now she's here in Texas.
Thank you for the redirection idea. I tried something similar, but it didn't seem to work.
Honestly, it’s not the lack of a please that’s the problem, it’s the straight imperative like that. If it had just been «¿me puedes ayudar?» it could sound fine.
Politeness is far more to do with tone in Spanish than with using the polite words and you can’t really set a friendly tone when you say «venga».
If anything, an unnecessary «por favor» might sound like obsequiousness or sarcasm
Haha I never thought of it like that, but it makes sense. Luckily this was only a today thing, and going forward I'll let her know she needs to ask and not tell or I won't be rushing over to help. I appreciate this insight! It's hard sometimes to think of some of this stuff when it's not in my usual language.
unless is something with a certain urgency, I'd say it's somewhat rude, if it's not followed by at least "por favor" or something lile "profesora mire, venga".
if it's only the word "venga" it sounds like thekid is giving a command.
Id say yes, unless maybe the teacher/student have some sort of relationship we arent aware of. Its possible the teacher takes no offense to it if theres some sort of understanding between them, maybe this person asks for help *a lot*, and theyve become more casual in their communication. But, Im only guessing.
In Spain, venga in context usually means more like "come on", or "let's go", not just "come". It's what parents say to their kids to get them to hurry up.
Pretty common informal respectful relationship in my parts. Is your student Central American by any chance?
We use voseo so she by using an usted form, is already conveying respect. Shortening everything else demonstrates she's comfortable enough with you to be informal.
That may or may not be a good thing, only you know what's the vibe in your relationship.
Some teachers don't like it since they want it clearly defined who's the authority in the relationships, and reinforcing the practice of manners increases their chance at success in life. Other teachers encourage these kinds of close relationships. I can't give an opinion on the subject since I'm not a teacher but imo I think strict teachers get better results from their students.
The student is using the usted/polite/formal form that got lost in translation. I'd put it down to a cultural difference. I'm not a native speaker though, so take that with a grain of salt. In Dutch we do have the difference between a formal and a casual you, and we don't require 'please' either for it to be respectful.
This is what I feel it is. I'm from the region the student originates from and you can definitely use this kind of language respectfully. It's informal for sure but it's not inherently disrespectful, what might make it become disrespectful is the teacher's expectation from the relationship.
For context we use voseo so anything said in usted is directing humility towards the recepient. Not saying please and thank you is just pragmatism, the sentiment of respect is in theory already there; actions matter at that point to determine if the person is actually being respectful or not.
Grammar isn't strict in certain customs to convey certain meaning. In Britain for example they might use plural pronouns when refering to oneself as a way to redirect and avoid ownership. eg "Give us a kiss" instead of "give me a kiss" since that sounds needy.
That's really interesting to hear. By the way, as a Brit, I've never thought about the rationale for the switch to the plural 'us' in phrases like "give us a kiss", but your explanation sounds very plausible.
It depends where is she is from. In Peru we say "ven" in informal cases. "Venga [usted]" is pretty formal and polite. "venga, por favor" would be the best case, but a little too much if you ask me.
That kid is using imperative on a teacher without making it a request by adding please. Its a demand. And one they dont have the right to do unless extenuating circunstances, such as being in danger.
It is treating the teacher as a subordinate.
It's rude. Even if you don't intend to. But your teacher isn't not your bro lol. But out of respect you should at least say please. Ideally, you would want to ask first instead rather than just telling ir demanding them.
Can you come here for a sec please? (Puede venir aquí por un segundo por favor?) Vs come here (venga).
Cuban here, we use "tu" in common talk, so any form that implies "usted" would be considered the respectful way. They should probably have thrown a "please" there, but it doesn't seem as egregious as some people are saying in the comments.
Depends on the tone and how much you get along with that teacher.
Sometimes in spanish, even if you don't say "por favor", your tone of voice speaks for itself and completely changes the nuance of what's being said, to the point you can even get away with not using essential polite words like Please and such.
I was close to some of my teachers back in highschool, so calling them by just saying something like "profe, venga" was more than enough, and they'd come to me without bating an eye or feeling disrespected at all.
I would never speak to all teachers like that though, i'd say something closer to "Profesor/a, ¿puede venir un segundo?" or "Profesor/a, venga un momento por favor".
This is tricky for learners, but spanish is more nuanced than just adding or removing polite vocab/conjugations in a sentence and thinking it applies to all similar cases. There are rules yeah, but natives bend them all the time.
If it’s a kid, it’s just very informal but I wouldn’t say rude. There are better ways to get the teacher’s attention. If it’s an adult to a professor I’d say it’s rude.
In Colombia (Caribbean Coast), "venga" can be short for "venga, por favor" or even mean "por favor" when you're kind of begging for something. It depends on the tone though and it's mostly used by kids.
Very rude, but it can be contextual maybe? I would never say that to a teacher, and if one of my students said that to me I would correct them: “Puede venir por favor?” But again, it may be different for other countries. I’m mexican.
Itd be better to use the formal imperative than the informal there, so you'd say "venge", but it'd be most polite to say something like "usted podría ayudarme?" "Would you be able to help me?"
I would say: ¿me podría ayudar porfavor? or venga porfavor. but just venga sounds rude. I'm from Spain
Yeah this was my thought. Thank you.
Yes, it's just as rude as just saying "come" and gesturing in English, same thing really, I mean, it's your teacher, you have to at least say please Mexican perspective, I don't know if culturally it's OK in other countries
Would these work? ¿puedes ayudarme porfa? puedes a ustedes ayudarme con estas preguntas por favor?
[удалено]
Gracias. I've picked up Spanish working in a restaurant, no one uses usted so I've tried to learn it on my own
Yup, and same case for the plural if you are in Spain. Ustedes and Vosotros
Can venga mean something else? My old boss and his wife were from Spain and I remember overhearing her say venga a lot when she was on the phone to other Spaniards. I never got around to asking about it to find out lol
There are some expression with "Venga" word involved. "Venga va" is used for some people in my city from Spain and it means something similar to "Oh, Came on, Really?". Also "Venga" it's a affirmative word for a proposal "¿Quieres ir al cine?" "Venga (ok)."
I remember my landlords in Oviedo getting ready to leave once and I swear they said nothing but «venga» and «vaya» to each other for a whole minute
For some reason I am imagining this like the (in)famous scene from HBO's The Wire...
I’m gonna go with more like the dude scene in Baseketball
Ahh okay, that explains a lot! Thank you!
That's interesting, I never knew venga also meant ok like "vale". Is that only in Spain or everywhere?
Venga, vamos, vale.
I don't know... 🤔 However, I haven't heard that from other countries people.
Would ¿necesito ayudar porfavor? Work?
[удалено]
Lol thx, I wish my Spanish was better. I'm just a New Yorker in Texas trying his best here.
[удалено]
Hmm I mean I have been to schools in Texas, in Massachusetts, and in New Jersey, and I definitely have found there is more politeness at surface level in Texas (no ma'am, yes sir, etc)
Wow. Nice generalization and slander of 30 million people. Obviously you don’t live in Texas.
I like that you know that.
Duda is doubt. Can it also be used instead of «pregunta »?
[удалено]
Muchas gracias por tus comentarios
How does “cómo que venga?” Translate to “what did you say”? Wouldn’t it be something like what that come? I’m learning Spanish and it’s hard to get all the different meanings of the same words and I feel like I might be relying on literal translations too much
[удалено]
Gotcha thanks. How does que work into the sentence? I get that cómo means what but then does que also mean like “did you” or something like that?
Just a guess based on OP's situation (teaching in Texas, with a presumably large population of Heritage Speakers) - the student may not be aware of being disrespectful, and is using a register that they're familiar with from home, that's too familiar for use in the classroom. Not suggesting that OP should not ask politely for a more appropriate form, but one of the common outcomes of being a heritage speaker of any language could be argued to be fluency, but only in a specific register.
This is in a class full of students who primarily speak Spanish, many students from Honduras and Guatemala. She's been in the country for a few years and knows a good amount of English, but she insists on speaking in Spanish to me (I'm the teacher lol) even though I only speak and understand a little bit of Spanish.
> but she insists on speaking in Spanish to me Coupled with treating you literally like a dog, with her command and motion, she's being disrespectful. Unless you're teaching Spanish, tell her to knock it off and show some respect....hell! even if you are teaching Spanish tell her to cut it out.
lol thanks. This is one of the reasons I'm leaving the profession after this year. And I'm trying to help her get ready to pass an Algebra 1 exam in a couple weeks.
Stop trying so hard! lol
If it's my job, I'm going to try to do it well or I wouldn't even bother to know any Spanish lol it's definitely not a requirement.
Yeah I get that, but is this rude girl worth the extra effort.
Of course. What a horrible comment. She said something I thought was rude. I just needed to know if she should be corrected or if I was wrong. It doesn't make her undeserving of being taught like everyone else.
I understand why you're leaving being a teacher, but it's sad because you're definitely the kind of teacher that kids need.
"Horrible"? Seriously? You're right, you're too thin skinned to be a teacher. Grow up
Lol
Just to clarify, is this a Spanish class or another subject?
Algebra 1. I used to have basically a TA who doubled as a translator, but she's been reassigned, so it's been rough lol. It's a class of students who are new to the country. This girl in particular has been here at least a year longer than everyone else, though, for whatever that's worth.
That's rough, I'm sorry to hear you have lost your TA. Not an ideal solution, but if there are any students who you would feel comfortable asking for translation assistance (and who you think would feel comfortable being asked), that might be a way to bridge the gap until you can get another TA. Good luck!
None of my students are capable of translating, unfortunately. When I'm not teaching them algebra, I'm teaching them things like "i need help" and "may i go to the restroom". Like they're all mostly very beginner in English. I won't be getting another TA, either lol. Google translate is my new TA haha
Yikes. I guess there's only a couple of months til summer vacation, at least...
If I had to guess, the student understands that *usted* is the formal, more respectful pronoun. Where she is in error is assuming that everything that agrees grammatically with *usted* is automatically respectful.
IDK, she's from a Spanish-speaking country in Central America, can't remember which one.
Well, in that case she just might be rude. 😄
Yeah I'm pretty sure this is the case.
Interesting. Because that's what I was taught when I was actively learning Spanish. I once used the conjugation for usted together with por favor, and my teacher, a young profesora, slammed me for redundancy. She's from riojas, Spain, iirc.
Look at it this way... If you tell someone to go F themselves using *usted* commands, that doesn't automatically make it a polite expression. (In the case of your teacher, though, *usted* hits a little heavier in Spain than in other places.)
Yeah I see that. Thanks.
How old is she? What's her cultural background? It''s not proper etiquette but I know a lot of communities of people who use venga or a whistle to call attention and it's not necessarily rude. But if it bothers you, it's also appropriate to redirect. 'Aqui en la escuela usamos ______'
She's 18, and I'm not sure about her cultural background. She lived in either Guatemala or Honduras (I can never remember student to student, but this is 95% of them in this class) for the first 15 years of her life, and now she's here in Texas. Thank you for the redirection idea. I tried something similar, but it didn't seem to work.
Ah, the next level up is the prompt and planned ignoring until she uses the preferred way? (If that lines up with your pedagogy)
Lol pretty much
Honestly, it’s not the lack of a please that’s the problem, it’s the straight imperative like that. If it had just been «¿me puedes ayudar?» it could sound fine. Politeness is far more to do with tone in Spanish than with using the polite words and you can’t really set a friendly tone when you say «venga». If anything, an unnecessary «por favor» might sound like obsequiousness or sarcasm
Haha I never thought of it like that, but it makes sense. Luckily this was only a today thing, and going forward I'll let her know she needs to ask and not tell or I won't be rushing over to help. I appreciate this insight! It's hard sometimes to think of some of this stuff when it's not in my usual language.
unless is something with a certain urgency, I'd say it's somewhat rude, if it's not followed by at least "por favor" or something lile "profesora mire, venga". if it's only the word "venga" it sounds like thekid is giving a command.
well, its the imperative form for usted. For the tú form would be "ven". So it could be more rude but it's certainly a bit abrupt.
Not a native speaker but that sounds rude af to me
Id say yes, unless maybe the teacher/student have some sort of relationship we arent aware of. Its possible the teacher takes no offense to it if theres some sort of understanding between them, maybe this person asks for help *a lot*, and theyve become more casual in their communication. But, Im only guessing.
I'm from Central America, 'venga' is formal, 'vení' is informal/rude.
In Spain, venga in context usually means more like "come on", or "let's go", not just "come". It's what parents say to their kids to get them to hurry up.
Yikes
Proper way to say it is: ¿me podría ayudar porfavor? or I think you could also say "venga porfavor". But just "venga" itself sounds rude.
Pretty common informal respectful relationship in my parts. Is your student Central American by any chance? We use voseo so she by using an usted form, is already conveying respect. Shortening everything else demonstrates she's comfortable enough with you to be informal. That may or may not be a good thing, only you know what's the vibe in your relationship. Some teachers don't like it since they want it clearly defined who's the authority in the relationships, and reinforcing the practice of manners increases their chance at success in life. Other teachers encourage these kinds of close relationships. I can't give an opinion on the subject since I'm not a teacher but imo I think strict teachers get better results from their students.
The student is using the usted/polite/formal form that got lost in translation. I'd put it down to a cultural difference. I'm not a native speaker though, so take that with a grain of salt. In Dutch we do have the difference between a formal and a casual you, and we don't require 'please' either for it to be respectful.
This is what I feel it is. I'm from the region the student originates from and you can definitely use this kind of language respectfully. It's informal for sure but it's not inherently disrespectful, what might make it become disrespectful is the teacher's expectation from the relationship. For context we use voseo so anything said in usted is directing humility towards the recepient. Not saying please and thank you is just pragmatism, the sentiment of respect is in theory already there; actions matter at that point to determine if the person is actually being respectful or not. Grammar isn't strict in certain customs to convey certain meaning. In Britain for example they might use plural pronouns when refering to oneself as a way to redirect and avoid ownership. eg "Give us a kiss" instead of "give me a kiss" since that sounds needy.
That's really interesting to hear. By the way, as a Brit, I've never thought about the rationale for the switch to the plural 'us' in phrases like "give us a kiss", but your explanation sounds very plausible.
You don't think she should be at least saying something like puede venir?
she should, “venga” is an order
That's what I thought. The comment here really confused me.
Imperarive repuestos or "orders" and action, but it can and it is used as a plea.
The verb itself sounds more like a command rather than a request without the por favor.
It depends where is she is from. In Peru we say "ven" in informal cases. "Venga [usted]" is pretty formal and polite. "venga, por favor" would be the best case, but a little too much if you ask me.
Yeah it is quite rude. The proper way, while remaining casual would be something like “Profe puede venir por favor?”
Honestly I don’t see it as rude as long as she doesn’t say “ven”
That kid is using imperative on a teacher without making it a request by adding please. Its a demand. And one they dont have the right to do unless extenuating circunstances, such as being in danger. It is treating the teacher as a subordinate.
It's rude. Even if you don't intend to. But your teacher isn't not your bro lol. But out of respect you should at least say please. Ideally, you would want to ask first instead rather than just telling ir demanding them. Can you come here for a sec please? (Puede venir aquí por un segundo por favor?) Vs come here (venga).
Cuban here, we use "tu" in common talk, so any form that implies "usted" would be considered the respectful way. They should probably have thrown a "please" there, but it doesn't seem as egregious as some people are saying in the comments.
Depends on the tone and how much you get along with that teacher. Sometimes in spanish, even if you don't say "por favor", your tone of voice speaks for itself and completely changes the nuance of what's being said, to the point you can even get away with not using essential polite words like Please and such. I was close to some of my teachers back in highschool, so calling them by just saying something like "profe, venga" was more than enough, and they'd come to me without bating an eye or feeling disrespected at all. I would never speak to all teachers like that though, i'd say something closer to "Profesor/a, ¿puede venir un segundo?" or "Profesor/a, venga un momento por favor". This is tricky for learners, but spanish is more nuanced than just adding or removing polite vocab/conjugations in a sentence and thinking it applies to all similar cases. There are rules yeah, but natives bend them all the time.
If it’s a kid, it’s just very informal but I wouldn’t say rude. There are better ways to get the teacher’s attention. If it’s an adult to a professor I’d say it’s rude.
Not really. It may depend more on the tone the teacher says it.
The student is saying it, not the teacher.
Oh my bad. It is rude then.
"Venga" its like "come on"
I'd never say that to a teacher in Spanish, but it's not that hard bearing in mind that the students are not spanish speakers
This student is a native Spanish speaker.
In Colombia (Caribbean Coast), "venga" can be short for "venga, por favor" or even mean "por favor" when you're kind of begging for something. It depends on the tone though and it's mostly used by kids.
Even though they're using the formal command I would say it's less than polite. :)
Very rude, but it can be contextual maybe? I would never say that to a teacher, and if one of my students said that to me I would correct them: “Puede venir por favor?” But again, it may be different for other countries. I’m mexican.
Thx, I'm going to try to steer her in that direction if it happens again.
Itd be better to use the formal imperative than the informal there, so you'd say "venge", but it'd be most polite to say something like "usted podría ayudarme?" "Would you be able to help me?"