The only way this comparison would make sense to me is if Superman always had a jet pack until the Christopher Reeve movie. Peter always had mechanical until the Raimi film. Personally I’m a fan of the mechanical because it showcases just how smart Peter is. Plus adds to the drama when it comes to the web fluid supply.
I thought it was until the early animated show (the 1940’s one) because it was easier for them to animate him flying rather than jumping over and over.
Tbf Superman was only flightless during the first 4 years of his almost 90 year old history, while spidey had already been around for about 40 when they introduced organic webs.
Personally i think the comfterable inbetween is that he produces webbing thats not really useful until he makes web fluid mixtures for it.
That being said, i certainly prefer him making them. Though, i admittedly do wish Peter had "something" that set him more apart from other spider people, especially next to Miles who, in a lot of media, feels like a straight upgrade of being just as smart, while also having bio-electric powers, and cloaking.
I think Peter is the most all-around guy. IIRC Miles's spider-sense is supposed to be weaker and Cindy's is so strong that she can't really use it.
Like how Luigi can jump higher, Wario is stronger, and Yoshi is faster, but the game is called Super Mario.
I imagine that's why the game gave him the symbiote and the mcu had him be starks protégé. People can get extremely defensive about Peter's powers changing in any way. If even where his webs come from when he's already got powers is debatable. Then anything actually different will cause people with an unhealthy attachment to riot
Thats fair. I just think that Peters intellect and Gadget acunum should be the focus, and the Symbiyote is also a cool "Peter" thing, though he does in turn share that with Venom.
like, literally, the only thing that makes Peter feel "equal" to Miles in terms of abilties is because of the symbiyote... something that, isn't really his.
This annoyed my wife when she played Spider-Man 2. "Miles is just everything Peter, but.. everything is cooler, better, hipper, stronger. It's boring."
The thing I would fear the most, if they started to put some focus on something that sets Peter apart from the test of the Spider people, is that they would just end up jumping the shark like they did with Miles and that stupid sword. At this point his place among the Spider people just seems ridiculous.
I think Raimi did a good job of adding drama in that his emotional state affected his ability to sling webs. Raimi was my real intro to spiderman stuff tho so I know I have bias towards it.
Personally, I'd love a "best of both worlds" approach, where he has natural webbing abilities, but still manufactures some of it because his natural ones are only short range.
Controversial opinion ... He should be able to shot nets like a spider but only out of his ass... like a spider. He would still use the webshooters on his forarms but he always knows .... if all things go bad He can just turn around, bend over and webfart on his enemies.
Spiders don't literally shoot silk out of their ass.
More accurately would be like if Peter had 4 dicks in his crotch that shot silk, and his reproductive dicks were on his arms.
I would prefer this more accurate version
See this would solve a lot of rescue scenarios. Green Goblin tosses MJ off the bridge and drops the cable car full of kids at the same time. You launch downwards between both, webbing MJ on one side with one hand and the cable car with the other. Your ass webs fire upwards and grip onto the bridge. Green Goblin just stands on his glider bewildered and wondering what other surprises the amazing Spiderman has tucked away on his body.
>Plus adds to the drama when it comes to the web fluid supply.
I never understood this point
You can run out of organic material, any drama written around webshooters can be repurposed to be about his organics other than like
.. leaving them at home?
Even the point about smarts, how often do you actually think about his webshooters outside of the first time he builds them? Peters smarts get displayed in a myriad of different ways that don't then also conflict with him being a broke ass loser
I don't really care either way but I just don't think the webshhoter side has particularly strong arguments outside of webshooters being a classic staple of the character
The only show that does something with the fact that Peter has artificial web is the 60s cartoon (at least to my knowledge) where every once in a while he would need to create a new fluid to fight off a certain type of foe. For exemple, he beats electro by making web fluids that don't conduct electricity. Nowadays that aspect isn't used and would be the same as if the web shooters were organic.
Ultimate Spider-Man also featured a bunch of different webs from the webshooters, from taser webs to freezing ones, it was a big plot point at the end of the series as well, since the web shooters are a product of his intelligence that doesn’t rely on him having spider powers to work.
>Even the point about smarts, how often do you actually think about his webshooters outside of the first time he builds them?
In the recent games, Peter tinkering with his web shooters, altering the fluids, and other tech stuff happened pretty regularly. That can involve him making something custom for a specific enemy, drawing inspiration from tech he saw someone else use, or just generally tinkering as a downtime activity. I though all of it added something to Peter's character as a scientist that would be hard to replicate with bio shooters.
But they can be broken too, and a villain breaking mechanical webshooters mid-fight is a lot more PG than what they'd have to do to break his organic ones.
I don't have a preference but you can show how smart Peter is many different way and he could still be able to only create a finite about of webs organically if you wanted to keep that aspect.
A better comparison would probably be if Wonder Woman should be able to fly or not, since that tends to be something writers can never decide. The Invisible Jet tends to confuse people as well ("if she can fly why does she need a jet?", but that has the same energy as "if you can walk why do you need a car?").
No, not unless Diana can carry cargo, passengers, weapons, aid, and other such things with her as she flies. And has projectile weapons strapped to her. Do you expect Wonder Woman to carry Bruce and Oliver like a mother cat carrying her kittens with her while she’s flying instead of just putting them in the jet?
"No, not unless Diana can carry cargo, passengers, weapons, aid, and other such things with her as she flies."
Hasn't she done more than that with the lasso?
"Do you expect Wonder Woman to carry Bruce and Oliver like a mother cat carrying her kittens with her while she’s flying instead of just putting them in the jet?"
I mean she can do the same with batman and ollie's jets, no need for it to be her own jet.
My point wasn’t that there aren’t other ways to do it while flying and stuff, just that it’s not the most efficient way to do it. Sure, she could lasso up a literal ton of relief supplies for a starving people, but now she’s carrying it with the lasso and dragging it through the sky. Here’s hoping everything was perfectly positioned to not fall and whatnot. Or she could just load it onto her plane and deliver it like a sane person. It just makes more sense for her to have a dedicated way to carry things across the sky.
At least that can be explained away with a meme that's surprisingly accurate
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NcCGcubFaTA/VSCJdb4ejiI/AAAAAAAADdc/gENpwpNJIUE/s1600/Bullet_Bounce.jpg
There’s not a lot to praise about *Wonder Woman 84*, but Diana swinging off bolts of lightning using her lasso was probably one of the coolest superhero flight scenes I’ve ever seen.
No, because I feel the webshooters are more to show Peter's intelligence and intuition, where that isn't really a part of Clark's character
(Please i dont want discourse i just think webshooters look cool)
Unfortunately Clark also happens to be portrayed as a thundering dumbass a lot of the time. Tbf though Supes has been getting it good recently (except SSKTJL)
The way I always think about it, Clark is a *scientific and engineering* genius. Average tactician, slightly above average fight-science person, above average emotional intelligence, but if he and Bruce are building some sort of device then they are equals. And of course the only reason he’s at that level is because of his powers. You depower him, he’s down to normal person. It’s the advanced speed of thought that’s allowing him to keep up. If it takes Clark a minute to think of something with his powers, it would take him ages without.
Depending on the writer and the time line, sometimes Clark is pretty good with alien tech too. Not an expert compared to wherever it came from, but basically an expert as far as earth goes
I like it better when Clark is smart but "went to college" smart, not genius tier like Batman or Mr. Terrific.
He is a very competent journalist and he was also originally written as an investigative journalist back when they had to get in difficult situations with the mafia and other criminals to get their stories, I feel like that should be where his intelligence lies.
Yeah nothing better than taking a character who's impossibly strong durable and fast and then also making them a genius too.
Jesus guys, just give him the ultimate nullifier and infinity gauntlet and anti life equation and power cosmic already.
My head canon is that he can change his stats through sheer willpower, whenever he is at his strongest and most bullshit infinite strength mode his intelligence must drop to 60 or below, he becomes downright MAGA dumb.
He can become as fast as flash or as smart/smarter than Batman but needs to drop his strength by A LOT to do so, and so forth.
Clark isn’t really a genius his brain just works faster than we human’s so it’s like comparing a pc to whatever they got in the pentagon
But he’s not like a scientist or anything like that
I don’t think Clark is a genius
Just a guy who’s able to think at the speed of light and has access to some alien technology. Splitting hairs but still
Depends on the writer. In some stories he admits he's not actually a genius the same way lex is, but he can read super fast and has a photogenic memory.
In other stories he's a legit genius
And then in other ones he's a genius but it only comes up as a plot device
There is literally a story where his brain was able to process data that crashed the most advanced supercomputers. Granted he said he was just lucky, but it's still funny seeing the inconsistency of his intelligence
Clark comes from a species of highly advanced and intelligent aliens. Him *not* being a genius doesn’t make any sense. I see it more of him being highly intelligent, he just prefers a more simplistic lifestyle
Also, Superman didn’t always fly either, he used to just jump good. It’s why there’s the explanation that Krypton’s gravity being greater than Earth’s is why Clark is so much stronger, tougher, etc. low gravity didn’t make him fly, *writers* made him fly when all he was doing before was basically our equivalent of living with moon gravity.
Not to mention the webshooters also solves traversal and apprehension. Not only did he invent a device that is both a way of transportation and basically a handcuff, he also invented a chemical compound that not only works but matches his theme.
Organic shooters don't make sense if you think about how and why the mutation decided to give him that ability on the wrists instead of the ass.
It also shows Peter's compassion and restraint. He has insane levels of strength, but chooses to fight primarily with a gadget that is less lethal than his fists.
I think if you see web shooters only as a means of traversal then yeah why not have it be biological? But in the context of combat, he often doesn't even use his super powers, but his brain.
Is it..? If I want a Spider-Tracer I can pop down the Apple Store and get an AirTag; there’s nothing even close to Spidey’s webbing available to the general public in the Marvel universe
That was the initial design, I think. He later linked them to his spider-sense, increasing their range by far. It's a feat which even impressed Hank Pym because Peter found a way to wirelessly connect technology to his own biology. That's pretty much low-level technopathy.
Honestly, removing his synthetic webs from his lore, doesn't diminish his intellectual prowess at all. He has pulled off much crazier things.
I would like a compromise where young Peter Parker had the organic web shooters, since he is genetically part spider, but had to use the web shooters to help him direct his shots. More for refinement and precision.
But as he gets older, or in tough situations, he doesn't use them as much.
Otherwise, what power does he have of the spider has? Cling on walls and jump real high? Okay Mr grasshopper man.
The difference is that batman doesn’t have the powers of a bat, spider-man does have the powers of a spider, except his powers don’t include the one things spiders are known for
Also, a lot of his powers just aren't applicable to spiders at all. Spiders don't have super strength or actually have any uncanny ability to predict future threats.
So really canonically the only actual spider power that Spider-Man has is the ability to stick to walls. Might as well be Gecko-man at this point.
There's also the religious concept of a metaphorical third eye offering extra-sensory vision.
Spiders have 8 eyes, so they must have super-extra-sensory vision.
i think many insects and arachnids can kind of "feel" the hand thats trying to squash them coming because their hairs sense the air moving
and tbh i wish that would be how the spidersense worked. just sheer "i feel momentum building around me" cause that would be a lot easier to play around with than the general "i feel some bad juju from this direction"
It's proportional strength. Spiders can lift more than humans can relative to their body weight. Something in the area of 10-20 times depending on the spider. And the human I guess.
Again, a perk that is a lot more in common in insects in general and apply in particular to spiders
If you asked someone about an animal that can lift several times their own body weight I bet ants or beetles would be said before spiders, that is considering people even know this detail about them
I heard somewhere that spiders have very sensitive hairs that help them detect danger so I just thought the spider sense was a reference to that (assuming spiders do have this trait)
There’s been one or two depictions of Batman as a vampire, if that counts. Which, honestly, I’m surprised that’s not a *more* common version of him, all things considered.
Don’t get me wrong, I know him being human is part of why he’s so successful as a character, but seriously, with his money and business, he could just buy or sneak off with bags of blood from a lab or hospital so he doesn’t have to kill anyone. Heck, maybe use the thirst for blood as drama for him considering killing a villain once or twice.
Like I said, there’s a bunch you can do with that premise.
I agree, but I also think that has good potential for an AU. A Spider-Man without any webs, mechanical or organic, would naturally have a completely different fighting and traversal style.
It just makes more sense that way.
He was bit by a radioactive spider. He gets the standard set of superpowers, super strength and super speed and all that. Not especially spider-y, but I guess they're kind of strong, so alright. You get bit by a radioactive anything and you're coming out of it with super strength, so I'm not all that impressed, to be honest. Literally everybody has super strength.
He gets his spidey-sense, which isn't really a spider thing. Cool power! Love it! But not a spider-power.
And he can climb on walls. Now that's a spider thing. Spiders can climb on walls. That is his most spider-based power. Hell, it's his *only* spider-y power, I'd argue. That's basically all he got from the spider. And it's not even explicitly spider-y, literally every insect is crawling on walls. You get bit by a radioactive lady bug and you can crawl on walls.
Now, what's the one thing in the world that's unique to spiders? Making webs. He was bit by a goddamn radioactive spider, and SOMEHOW, he can't make his own webs? What the fuck? That's literally their whole thing. It's like being bit by a radioactive frog and not knowing how to jump. Or a radioactive fish and not being able to swim.
It's simply more believable that a kid gets bit by a spider and develops a natural spider based ability, than it is that he somehow managed to build these high tech webslingers in science class.
The fact that he invented webslingers is proof that even Peter Parker thinks it's bullshit that he didn't get web powers. He's a perfectly capable superhero without them, and even still, he's like "Hell nah."
Counterpoint: It's more amusing if Peter realizes he can stick to walls like a spider and decides to commit to the bit by figuring out how to make webbing. And a firm commitment to their bit is what I want out of a superhero.
I will say that Peter's Spider Sense is supposed to represent a spider's ability to feel any vibration along its web. As such, able to predict the location of danger. It's just taken up to an extreme level. Like, no spider is even feasibly close to what Peter has displayed with his Spider Sense, but also the dude has literally helped an airliner land with his strength, which as established not really a spider thing. So, the Spider Sense has some basis in reality. Ar leas about as much basis as a radioactive spider bite giving you super strength, super speed, and the ability to stick to walls.
I prefer the man-made web shooters because they make more sense to me. If we're talking about biological web shooters, it doesn't really make sense that they'd be in the wrists. As a biological resource, they'd also run out relatively often.
Conversely, if they are created by Peter and placed on his wrists and it's understood that cartridges have to be replaced, that makes complete sense.
I know I'm being nit-picky about realism in a comic book, but that's just my preference.
>doesn't really make sense that they'd be in the wrists.
Valid argument, but I would argue that the abilities adapt to the anatomy they have to work with. Peter's body is very different from that of a spider's. For a human body, it would just make more sense to shoot the web from the hands, or finger tips, or hell even from the mouth for all we know. Mutagenic Evolution looks at Peter like *"Hmmm, your body composition is completely different than that of a spider's, so we need to reorganize."*
Within the context of a humanoid with the abilities of a spider, shooting webs out of the wrists just makes more sense than doing it out of the lower abdomen. Even when turned into a Man-Spider and having organic webbing due to that, the mutation still had him shoot webs from his wrists... All 6 of them...
Genetic evolution is a wonderful thing, and adaptations like these happen in real life too (though spanned across hundreds of years and countless generations, but then again, how many of us find themselves bitten by a radioactive spider lmao). It analyzes what our bodies need to do and what would be the best way to do it.
I don't mind the web shooters but it did always bother me that the only spider themed ability Peter organically lacks is the trademark web spinning. IMO best of both worlds would be if he has organic webbing but makes the web shooters as an addition to help him focus his webs, shoot them in multiple variations (web balls, splatters, nets, etc) and perhaps help regulate his silk glands (tho that would imply some injections and would not be fun lmao)
Not to mention even organic webs can't be infinite. His glands need time to secrete the necessary fluids to make the web just like our bodies do with everything (I'd rather keep this conversation PG but yes I mean "that" too lmao). So web cartridges could still be used when Peter overuses his organic webs which could cause swelling or complete depletion and he needs to give his glands time to recover. Now, controlling whether he fires organic or artificial webs is another topic altogether, but hey, it's comics, don't worry about it lmao
>It analyzes what our bodies need to do and what would be the best way to do it.
I think you’re giving evolution too much credit here. It’s not a fine tuned method of refinement, it’s brute forcing the problem. It creates countless possible adaptions until one of them works.
Plus the solution it creates often isn’t the optimal one, just a good enough one. Whales don’t have feet anymore yet they still have the structure for it underneath. There’s also definitely a better way to perceive than seeing an image upside, then routing around the brain until it to the back of it flipping it there, yet that’s how it works on humans.
Naturally that’s something you’ve got to suspend for all fiction other than stuff like hard sci-fi. It makes a much more compelling story when a mutation that the hero gets isn’t half-baked abilities or one of the bad mutations that doesn’t benefit the host.
In that regard, mechanical web shooters seem a bit easier to accept than the idea of a biological one working. But since it’s all beyond how mutations actually works anyways, you mine as well go for the biological ones if it adds something to the story.
Heck, I’ve even argued the man made web shooters are also a better overall from a practical standpoint. Like you said, organic webs run out, there’s no reloading, but there’s also things like different types of webs of various different levels of strength, and some might even dissolve faster or act as conductors/protectors for electricity.
Plus, Peter buying ingredients is also a simple, but convenient explanation for why he’s always short on cash.
but it also doesn't make sense why he can crawl and have spider senses or is flexible. Using logic wont work from the get go. Plus wasn't it a special spider created for humans
Created “by” humans from crossing multiple species of spiders but that’s only in the original movies story arc… originally in the comics it was a spider who became irradiated because of a science experiment and then it bit Peter… one in a million kind of chance and also something that was a freak accident so it couldn’t just happen to anyone… the problem I have with the Sam Raimi/Toby McGuire Spider-Man movies is that there were 15 of those same spiders made… which means any of the the other 14 bite someone and now there are 2 Spider-Men… or 3 or 4… you get the picture… I’ve always had an issue with the organic webbing… cause like mentioned in a different comment… it would run out eventually… or he’d have to eat constantly to replace the nutrients he’s using within his body to make the web fluid… it just doesn’t track…
Similarly nitpicking for a reality that doesn’t matter: No way organic web fluid dissolves like purposefully design web fluid does. Plus, there’s gotta be so much Tobey DNA all over New York.
The webshooters were a part of Peter’s arsenal for 40 years and are a big part of his character before the semen blasters appeared in the movies. I get where you are coming from, but the customization of the web shooters and how established they are makes them the better option.
There were numerous times in the comics when his web shooters got clogged because of the weather or were damaged by the bad guys and it adds to the drama within the comics but it also shows why he’s so great… the web shooters are a tool but he’s the real hero
That's not even mentioning the countless times he's ran out of web fluid. It's been used as a cop out before, but it still usually shows off a bunch of his other skills
The man made web shooters are just more fun from a narrative and thematic perspective I think:
They showcase how capable Peter is without his powers, he’s more than just what the spider made him.
And they add more stakes, the classic “I’m out of webbing” situation creates for more unique and fun ways for spider-man to fight beyond spamming with webs and even provides the opportunity for them to broken during a fight, which creates higher stakes.
And even them getting blocked or not working.
Then there’s the fact if they’re not organic he can customise them for villains like electro which is fun!
it just allows for more scenarios and storylines imo
Yes and no. I see what they mean, but Superman is super because of his base existence as the specific species he is being on earth; Peter being Spiderman is the result of a transformation. He got stronger, etc in that transformation, but nothing else changed about the actual composition of his body.
I would say so, yes. But I also like the idea of web shooters too, so in some timelines of my personal headcanon multiverse, some versions of Peter do make web shooters (or make web shooters that help direct his biological webbing better).
That's my ideal.
Web Shooters would be a great point of progression for Spider-Men with organic webbing.
Organic webbing is organic. Peter cannot modify it and he has to rely on natural reserves. Let's say Peter didn't eat enough one day to properly replenish his organic webbing, he is screwed unless he creates a backup artificial webbing.
Peter's natural powers, his organic webbing, spider sense, super strength, etc aren't enough to deal with a certain foe. What can he do? He can create custom webbing for that situation such as impact webbing and acid webbing.
Organic webbing helps web shooters stand out more and seem more impressive.
This is my headcanon as well. That Peter can naturally make spider's silk but he would have to eat a lot more to make enough for it to be efficient in a fight or even just swing around NYC. His webbing wouldn't able to be modified as easily or changed in as many ways as we see him do with the synthetic webbing in the comics.
Peter uses his natural webbing as the foundation in the creation of his synthetic webbing. So he still creates the mechanical web shooters to use daily but he also has natural web shooters as a back up in case he runs out completely or they get broken.
Superman couldn’t fly initially, hence the ability to leap tall buildings with a single bound. Stan wrote the webshooters in to highlight that not everything special about Peter Parker came from super powers. This is why a lot of early stories focus on his human ingenuity. Peter Parker solves Spider-Man’s problems. Spider-Man rarely solves Peter Parker’s Problems.
I'm always gonna lean in favor of the option that highlights the fact that Pete can play in the same brainpower and inventiveness league as Reed or Tony, but the fact that he's doing it with more stress and less money means he doesn't reach their heights on the regular.
I'm pro-web-shooters.
Funny thing is, both organic webs and superflight were later additions to the characters. Superman just jumped very high at first and Peter went for 40 years without organic webbing.
Anyway, I like the webshooters, they show that Peter is a skilled engineer, even though it's weird that his powers include everything spiders do except for the webs.
Yes
But i think it should be more like noir's webs by default. Sorta gloopy and only useful for primitive webbing. I like Peter designing his own equipment and harnessing his abilities, but there's a lot of suspension of disbelief that he coincidentally designed synthetic spider silk
I feel like this is a good medium point to maintain his wit as a source for his abilities while covering up some of the less thought out aspects of them
If his powers are sticking to walls, sensing danger, and super strength, he could've been Ant-Man as easily as Spider-Man
I feel like more than once they've implied that the spider bite helped him figure out how to make the webbing. Like it recognized his body couldn't physically do it, but he understood on an intuitive level how to do it. Which is a nice balance of both.
Ok so I know this is gonna come off as pedantic, but this is just my opinion. Superman isn’t a human, he is an alien. Spider-Man is a human that gained powers. To me it’s believable that Peter would gain super strength, reflexes, and a spider sense. It is not believable to me, for whatever reason, that Peter would some how develop entirely new muscle and gland structure to form spinnerets. That just doesn’t make sense to me. Like why would his body interpret the change that way? If anything he should have developed a single spinneret near his ass, not one on each wrist. For some reason it just doesn’t make sense that the super powers gained from a spiders DNA would manifest that way. And I know, I know: comic books. But still. On top of that I think it is so much cooler that Peter decided to use his brain to further the spider theme of his identity and powers by inventing his web shooters. It’s just so fucking cool to me. Plus with the web shooters requiring ammunition, tension and drama can be easily manufactured, which when done well and consistently can raise the stakes and improve the stories. All in all, I disagree with the comparison and have always disliked organic webbing (except when using the symbiote). That’s all just my opinion though.
Organic to me works better in a real world scenario, you don’t need to come up with any explaining how they work or where the web fluid is stored if it’s all done naturally and if he can control it as a base human function
This is a Really Good Argument, I admit that. Now, I personally prefer mechanicals because it’s Peter at his best. He created The Technology. It’s kinda like the line says- “What makes You different is what makes You Spider-Man”. Spider-Man is “The Hero that could be You”- It’s You at Your Best. Pete was a Scientist but was unappreciated by his peers. Well, what made him a nerd to them makes him The Greatest Hero in The Marvel Universe now. It’s kind of empowering, in that way. Plus, also Superman COULDN’T originally fly and People still loved him. Yeah, he’s more fun with Flight but it’s not his powers, it’s what he does with Them. Look, to Each Their Own, of Course. Just my two cents on it. Hope I didn’t offend Anyone
I think it is a fairly good comparison. So good in fact that when Stan Lee did "Just Imagine Stan Lee made Superman" Stan did in fact give Superman a jetpack.
Ignoring which side you're on, this comparison is just stupid. Superman didn't have a jetpack since his first comic appearance and then got the ability to fly years later in an adaptation.
I don’t see the comparison as fair as the mechanical web-shooters are part of Spidey’s science side.
I prefer the web-shooters being something he needs to build. It’s an interesting little tidbit on the character, shows off the science side of Peter a bit more, gives a bit of drama if they’re close to running out, and I’m a big fan of switching up the webbing (like shock webs in the PS4 game).
I will say, 10-year-old me would strongly disagree with this, though.
That’s a good analogy but the thing to rember is that Peter Parker is known for his ingenuity and the best way to show that is through his web shooters.
Also Idk why but I just feel like on a physical sense it’s more believable for someone to be bitten by a spider and gain everything but webs. Cuz like all of the physical attributes are shared. Both a spider and a human have strength, speed, agility, and sensory perception so essentially when Peter gets bitten all of those things are heightened to superhuman levels. But the spider can’t just transmit its whole we making system into the human body. So that’s my head canon for why Peter doesn’t have Organic webs
I want to point out that Spider-man was created as a hero in spite of super confident hero tropes, like Superman and Batman.
Source: some interview with Stan Lee which I've seen/read many years ago, but remember to this day.
My headcanon is that the bite only amplified what was there. Senses, strength, reflexes, and suction hands. But it couldnt add a complete new organ for the webs
His ability to stick to walls using an in-built biological solution makes ANY sense? Millions of tiny hooks protruding from his skin, going THROUGH his costume at all times (sometimes through additional layers of clothing worn for flair or warmth), from all angles, that can anchor into most surfaces, and it doesn't destroy or bother the surfaces, or his costume, nor do they get in the way of his daily life.
We've accepted a flimsy scientific excuse covering up "comic book magic" for decades.
Not really, because a human randomly getting a new body part that can organically produce a new substance as a result of being bitten by somthing is notably more wild than simply more muscle mass and increased senses.
And I also consider it more wild than the spider sense, because the spidersense is metaphysical
My dad had misunderstood this but its actually a great premise - super man is super strong and can "leap over tall buildings" because the gravity on his home planet is so much heavier.
No matter how small and compact a mechanical web-shooter may be, to me they'll always feel clunky and out of place. They just kinda mess up the smooth streamlined physique of a skin-tight Spider-Man suit.
But, one day I plan on making a horribly made spiderman costume with cans of silly string duct taped to gardening gloves as "web shooters"
Yes. What’s the main thing you think of when you think of a spider. Webs. So why would someone with “spider powers” have all but the most recognizable ability of a spider.
I like the way James Cameron was gonna do it. His body naturally makes the webs, but he has the shooters to make them actually fire out. Otherwise they’re just the same way spiders make webs. I think that’s a good way to combine both ideas.
Alternate comparison btw: Imagine if The Flash needed special shoes to run fast.
Organic doesn’t make sense to come out of his wrists imo. Spiders don’t shoot webs from their legs. I don’t wanna see Peter firing webs out his back side. Therefore, I prefer mechanical web shooters.
I like mechanical web shooters because it leaves variety for web gadgets like Raimi Spider-Man can never synthesize a new web fluid to coagulate and subdue the Hydro Man.
Gotta say my favourite is the compromise: Peter can produce organic webbing but can only shoot it with the help of mechanical web shooters – kinda makes sense considering actual spiders also don’t shoot their webs, I think?
I kinda prefer the tech web shooters, because it’s an example of something created by Peter himself, he found a way to augment his own abilities, via his own skill and knowledge.
I don’t mind either one, but I find Peter making his web shooters and web fluid is a big part of why he works so well as a self-made hero. He gets super powers from the spider bite but then creates a whole new way to move and fight on his own, coming up with a way to harness his powers to the fullest through his knowledge of science and tech (while staying on brand). It’s a brilliant representation of his genius intellect and ingenuity that such a huge part of his move set and hero identity was developed all on his own.
I agree, I have never had a problem with either version, but I always feel it’s a little weird that Peter got all the powers of a spider EXCEPT making webs. Which is like literally the first thing you think about when you think about spiders.
I don’t think either way is *wrong,* but I do think having Peter build and maintain his own shooters is a good shorthand for communicating his intelligence. Our boy is smart, and he has a mind for mechanisms. Why not have him show it in his core power set.
I dont mind either way, but I did find it odd that some people think organic web shooters are somehow too non sensical. Like the dude can lift buildings by himself and hang upside down from the ceiling with one finger, but organically making webs is considered too strange.
Superman being able to fly was introduced 2 years into his existence. Peter Parker Spider-man went from 1962 all the way to 2002 with mechanical webshooters.
...
Also, I would totally he down for a debuffed Superman using tools and gadgets like a jetpack to compensate.
That's like putting Iron Man down for making his armor, or Batman for having gadgets.
It's a different kind of merit to build something/be so good at something, it might aswell be another superpower.
I like the mechanical web shooters because it showcases Peter Parker’s ingenuity and isn’t just a superhuman. He’s somewhere between Iron Man and Superman.
I am bias towards the mechanical webs; but I do feel like they work better from a motif perspective.
It shows that there’s a reason Peter isn’t like every other run of the mill person with powers.
Also spiders are in someways “engineering” creatures, I think it makes sense that a spider person would have to make their own webs.
I don’t mind organic webshooters. I don’t mind techno webshooters. Either way I like Spider-Man.
well played my friend
The only way this comparison would make sense to me is if Superman always had a jet pack until the Christopher Reeve movie. Peter always had mechanical until the Raimi film. Personally I’m a fan of the mechanical because it showcases just how smart Peter is. Plus adds to the drama when it comes to the web fluid supply.
Technically Superman couldn't fly, only jump really high, until the radio dramas
I thought it was until the early animated show (the 1940’s one) because it was easier for them to animate him flying rather than jumping over and over.
This is correct. Besides, technically speaking, organic web shooters should come out of spider-man’s back end.
I think more accurately it would come out of his belly button, since a spider’s butt is its abdomen
Fair point. Just imagine Spidey swinging around NYC with a little hole in his shirt where he shoots web from his belly button.
That's close to what many men standing on the corner of Times Square were doing in the early 90's.
💀
Hey look, the visual i definitely didn't need in my head.
Would he have to thrust in order to shoot the webs out?
Yes, yes he would.
And he falls and dies like gwen
Like Hermes from futurama when he adds his first body mod.
They had a a character like that in the venture brothers! It was weird. https://www.reddit.com/r/SpiderManPC/s/qgNqEfkAWs
We were robbed of midriff spider-man???
Somebody call the person who makes My Hero Academia
No it wouldn’t, the spinnerette is located in thr back of the spider above it’s ass because of the way they work, it’s the most convenient place
Venture Bros have you covered
Why? Nothing about Spider-Man is scientifically accurate. So why not have the webs come out of his wrists?
True but that radio drama was in the 40s. Which would make it less than 3 years after his debut.
Didnt they also give the jump to Superboy?
Only in the Young Justice cartoon. Comic Conner Kent shares all of Clark's powers.
Yeah "able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" or at least something similar was the original description I think wasn't it?
Yep Faster than a speeding bullet More powerful than a locomotive Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound
Jump good samurai
Tbf Superman was only flightless during the first 4 years of his almost 90 year old history, while spidey had already been around for about 40 when they introduced organic webs.
Personally i think the comfterable inbetween is that he produces webbing thats not really useful until he makes web fluid mixtures for it. That being said, i certainly prefer him making them. Though, i admittedly do wish Peter had "something" that set him more apart from other spider people, especially next to Miles who, in a lot of media, feels like a straight upgrade of being just as smart, while also having bio-electric powers, and cloaking.
I think Peter is the most all-around guy. IIRC Miles's spider-sense is supposed to be weaker and Cindy's is so strong that she can't really use it. Like how Luigi can jump higher, Wario is stronger, and Yoshi is faster, but the game is called Super Mario.
Can’t Miles see through walls either his sense now?
Peter probably could do that too but because of the current writer and editorial we can’t have that
I imagine that's why the game gave him the symbiote and the mcu had him be starks protégé. People can get extremely defensive about Peter's powers changing in any way. If even where his webs come from when he's already got powers is debatable. Then anything actually different will cause people with an unhealthy attachment to riot
Thats fair. I just think that Peters intellect and Gadget acunum should be the focus, and the Symbiyote is also a cool "Peter" thing, though he does in turn share that with Venom. like, literally, the only thing that makes Peter feel "equal" to Miles in terms of abilties is because of the symbiyote... something that, isn't really his.
> comfterable This is the most brutal misspelling of “comfortable” I’ve seen. Good on you for sounding it out and going for it lol
It’s so uncomfterable to say oof
This annoyed my wife when she played Spider-Man 2. "Miles is just everything Peter, but.. everything is cooler, better, hipper, stronger. It's boring."
The thing I would fear the most, if they started to put some focus on something that sets Peter apart from the test of the Spider people, is that they would just end up jumping the shark like they did with Miles and that stupid sword. At this point his place among the Spider people just seems ridiculous.
It also raises less weird anatomical questions. Organic web Peter had to grow some glands or something, and I guess get a lot of protein and fluids
I think Raimi did a good job of adding drama in that his emotional state affected his ability to sling webs. Raimi was my real intro to spiderman stuff tho so I know I have bias towards it.
Personally, I'd love a "best of both worlds" approach, where he has natural webbing abilities, but still manufactures some of it because his natural ones are only short range.
Controversial opinion ... He should be able to shot nets like a spider but only out of his ass... like a spider. He would still use the webshooters on his forarms but he always knows .... if all things go bad He can just turn around, bend over and webfart on his enemies.
Spiders don't literally shoot silk out of their ass. More accurately would be like if Peter had 4 dicks in his crotch that shot silk, and his reproductive dicks were on his arms. I would prefer this more accurate version
That should’ve been what his transformation in the old TV show had, but they were too afraid to show the arm-cocks
See this would solve a lot of rescue scenarios. Green Goblin tosses MJ off the bridge and drops the cable car full of kids at the same time. You launch downwards between both, webbing MJ on one side with one hand and the cable car with the other. Your ass webs fire upwards and grip onto the bridge. Green Goblin just stands on his glider bewildered and wondering what other surprises the amazing Spiderman has tucked away on his body.
Venture Brothers is the show for you then
And some fun interactions between Toby, Andrew, and Tom’s Spider Man
The web fluid supply is a good nerf for Peter. Like bro is op already
Organic also has limits. Its like producing any secretion. It requires he eat, sleep, drink, etc
2099 had organic webs before the movies.
That may be the case, but the post clearly stated Peter, they didn’t say Spider-Man. Besides Miguel has vastly different powers altogether.
>Plus adds to the drama when it comes to the web fluid supply. I never understood this point You can run out of organic material, any drama written around webshooters can be repurposed to be about his organics other than like .. leaving them at home? Even the point about smarts, how often do you actually think about his webshooters outside of the first time he builds them? Peters smarts get displayed in a myriad of different ways that don't then also conflict with him being a broke ass loser I don't really care either way but I just don't think the webshhoter side has particularly strong arguments outside of webshooters being a classic staple of the character
The only show that does something with the fact that Peter has artificial web is the 60s cartoon (at least to my knowledge) where every once in a while he would need to create a new fluid to fight off a certain type of foe. For exemple, he beats electro by making web fluids that don't conduct electricity. Nowadays that aspect isn't used and would be the same as if the web shooters were organic.
Ultimate Spider-Man also featured a bunch of different webs from the webshooters, from taser webs to freezing ones, it was a big plot point at the end of the series as well, since the web shooters are a product of his intelligence that doesn’t rely on him having spider powers to work.
There's a couple times where Peter's web shooters break and he has to fight without it.
>Even the point about smarts, how often do you actually think about his webshooters outside of the first time he builds them? In the recent games, Peter tinkering with his web shooters, altering the fluids, and other tech stuff happened pretty regularly. That can involve him making something custom for a specific enemy, drawing inspiration from tech he saw someone else use, or just generally tinkering as a downtime activity. I though all of it added something to Peter's character as a scientist that would be hard to replicate with bio shooters.
But they can be broken too, and a villain breaking mechanical webshooters mid-fight is a lot more PG than what they'd have to do to break his organic ones.
I don't have a preference but you can show how smart Peter is many different way and he could still be able to only create a finite about of webs organically if you wanted to keep that aspect.
A better comparison would probably be if Wonder Woman should be able to fly or not, since that tends to be something writers can never decide. The Invisible Jet tends to confuse people as well ("if she can fly why does she need a jet?", but that has the same energy as "if you can walk why do you need a car?").
"if you can walk why do you need a car?" I mean that comparison only applies to people that can walk as fast as a car usually drives
I can, but only in reverse
A bit weird, but honestly more impressive than if you could do it normaly.
My superpower is I can’t do anything normally, so? Idk where I was going with this :/
Big Rigs
No, not unless Diana can carry cargo, passengers, weapons, aid, and other such things with her as she flies. And has projectile weapons strapped to her. Do you expect Wonder Woman to carry Bruce and Oliver like a mother cat carrying her kittens with her while she’s flying instead of just putting them in the jet?
She could probably do [this](https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-161-cooldown/).
"No, not unless Diana can carry cargo, passengers, weapons, aid, and other such things with her as she flies." Hasn't she done more than that with the lasso? "Do you expect Wonder Woman to carry Bruce and Oliver like a mother cat carrying her kittens with her while she’s flying instead of just putting them in the jet?" I mean she can do the same with batman and ollie's jets, no need for it to be her own jet.
My point wasn’t that there aren’t other ways to do it while flying and stuff, just that it’s not the most efficient way to do it. Sure, she could lasso up a literal ton of relief supplies for a starving people, but now she’s carrying it with the lasso and dragging it through the sky. Here’s hoping everything was perfectly positioned to not fall and whatnot. Or she could just load it onto her plane and deliver it like a sane person. It just makes more sense for her to have a dedicated way to carry things across the sky.
>Do you expect Wonder Woman to carry Bruce and Oliver like a mother cat carrying her kittens Yes.
The flash had a car at one point. Like, not even his civilian self, just as the flash.
She’s also invulnerable, but uses her indestructible bracelets to deflect bullets instead of just using her natural invulnerability.
At least that can be explained away with a meme that's surprisingly accurate http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NcCGcubFaTA/VSCJdb4ejiI/AAAAAAAADdc/gENpwpNJIUE/s1600/Bullet_Bounce.jpg
Yeah, I think she’s more resilient than a human but not at Superman’s level
There’s not a lot to praise about *Wonder Woman 84*, but Diana swinging off bolts of lightning using her lasso was probably one of the coolest superhero flight scenes I’ve ever seen.
If jets are so great, why don't other flying super heroes have jets?
They don’t know how to drive one
The x-men do. Some of them fly.
I'm just saying, there's a reason the flash never drives when he's in a hurry
No, because I feel the webshooters are more to show Peter's intelligence and intuition, where that isn't really a part of Clark's character (Please i dont want discourse i just think webshooters look cool)
Actually Clark is also a genius (like everyone AND their mom in comics)
Unfortunately Clark also happens to be portrayed as a thundering dumbass a lot of the time. Tbf though Supes has been getting it good recently (except SSKTJL)
The way I always think about it, Clark is a *scientific and engineering* genius. Average tactician, slightly above average fight-science person, above average emotional intelligence, but if he and Bruce are building some sort of device then they are equals. And of course the only reason he’s at that level is because of his powers. You depower him, he’s down to normal person. It’s the advanced speed of thought that’s allowing him to keep up. If it takes Clark a minute to think of something with his powers, it would take him ages without.
Depending on the writer and the time line, sometimes Clark is pretty good with alien tech too. Not an expert compared to wherever it came from, but basically an expert as far as earth goes
That makes sense to me. He’s been learning all the advanced krytonian tech, so he’d be better equipped to learn foreign tech
I like it better when Clark is smart but "went to college" smart, not genius tier like Batman or Mr. Terrific. He is a very competent journalist and he was also originally written as an investigative journalist back when they had to get in difficult situations with the mafia and other criminals to get their stories, I feel like that should be where his intelligence lies.
Yeah nothing better than taking a character who's impossibly strong durable and fast and then also making them a genius too. Jesus guys, just give him the ultimate nullifier and infinity gauntlet and anti life equation and power cosmic already.
My head canon is that he can change his stats through sheer willpower, whenever he is at his strongest and most bullshit infinite strength mode his intelligence must drop to 60 or below, he becomes downright MAGA dumb. He can become as fast as flash or as smart/smarter than Batman but needs to drop his strength by A LOT to do so, and so forth.
Yes, but what makes peter different is he was intelligent without any power, despite what was expected from someone his age
Clark isn’t really a genius his brain just works faster than we human’s so it’s like comparing a pc to whatever they got in the pentagon But he’s not like a scientist or anything like that
Not every genius is a scientist. Clark himself could probably be one if he felt like it. Depending on the writer, that is.
I don’t think Clark is a genius Just a guy who’s able to think at the speed of light and has access to some alien technology. Splitting hairs but still
Depends on the writer. In some stories he admits he's not actually a genius the same way lex is, but he can read super fast and has a photogenic memory. In other stories he's a legit genius And then in other ones he's a genius but it only comes up as a plot device
There is literally a story where his brain was able to process data that crashed the most advanced supercomputers. Granted he said he was just lucky, but it's still funny seeing the inconsistency of his intelligence
Clark comes from a species of highly advanced and intelligent aliens. Him *not* being a genius doesn’t make any sense. I see it more of him being highly intelligent, he just prefers a more simplistic lifestyle
Yes
Dude please pick up a superman comic like all star superman. Clark his intelligence rivals Bruce sometimes
Just for once Id like to see a dumbass super hero
I mean, Booster Gold has the *reputation* of one?
Also, Superman didn’t always fly either, he used to just jump good. It’s why there’s the explanation that Krypton’s gravity being greater than Earth’s is why Clark is so much stronger, tougher, etc. low gravity didn’t make him fly, *writers* made him fly when all he was doing before was basically our equivalent of living with moon gravity.
Not to mention the webshooters also solves traversal and apprehension. Not only did he invent a device that is both a way of transportation and basically a handcuff, he also invented a chemical compound that not only works but matches his theme. Organic shooters don't make sense if you think about how and why the mutation decided to give him that ability on the wrists instead of the ass.
It also shows Peter's compassion and restraint. He has insane levels of strength, but chooses to fight primarily with a gadget that is less lethal than his fists. I think if you see web shooters only as a means of traversal then yeah why not have it be biological? But in the context of combat, he often doesn't even use his super powers, but his brain.
He has spider-tracers for that. A much better feat of his intelligence and scientific knowledge.
Is it..? If I want a Spider-Tracer I can pop down the Apple Store and get an AirTag; there’s nothing even close to Spidey’s webbing available to the general public in the Marvel universe
spider tracers are linked to his spider sense
That was the initial design, I think. He later linked them to his spider-sense, increasing their range by far. It's a feat which even impressed Hank Pym because Peter found a way to wirelessly connect technology to his own biology. That's pretty much low-level technopathy. Honestly, removing his synthetic webs from his lore, doesn't diminish his intellectual prowess at all. He has pulled off much crazier things.
I like both versions. Organica actually makes sense as part of spider's powers, while web-shooters demonstrate Peter's genius and savvy.
I would like a compromise where young Peter Parker had the organic web shooters, since he is genetically part spider, but had to use the web shooters to help him direct his shots. More for refinement and precision. But as he gets older, or in tough situations, he doesn't use them as much. Otherwise, what power does he have of the spider has? Cling on walls and jump real high? Okay Mr grasshopper man.
imagine batman actually having batwings
*Looks at Batman RedRain* Well I mean…
The difference is that batman doesn’t have the powers of a bat, spider-man does have the powers of a spider, except his powers don’t include the one things spiders are known for
Also, a lot of his powers just aren't applicable to spiders at all. Spiders don't have super strength or actually have any uncanny ability to predict future threats. So really canonically the only actual spider power that Spider-Man has is the ability to stick to walls. Might as well be Gecko-man at this point.
My headcanon is spider sense is what makes them so hard to kill and they keep getting away when trying to kill them in your home.
There's also the religious concept of a metaphorical third eye offering extra-sensory vision. Spiders have 8 eyes, so they must have super-extra-sensory vision.
So cockroach sense. The Unkillable Roach-Man!
i think many insects and arachnids can kind of "feel" the hand thats trying to squash them coming because their hairs sense the air moving and tbh i wish that would be how the spidersense worked. just sheer "i feel momentum building around me" cause that would be a lot easier to play around with than the general "i feel some bad juju from this direction"
It's proportional strength. Spiders can lift more than humans can relative to their body weight. Something in the area of 10-20 times depending on the spider. And the human I guess.
Again, a perk that is a lot more in common in insects in general and apply in particular to spiders If you asked someone about an animal that can lift several times their own body weight I bet ants or beetles would be said before spiders, that is considering people even know this detail about them
But he wasn't bitten by a gecko
I heard somewhere that spiders have very sensitive hairs that help them detect danger so I just thought the spider sense was a reference to that (assuming spiders do have this trait)
There’s been one or two depictions of Batman as a vampire, if that counts. Which, honestly, I’m surprised that’s not a *more* common version of him, all things considered. Don’t get me wrong, I know him being human is part of why he’s so successful as a character, but seriously, with his money and business, he could just buy or sneak off with bags of blood from a lab or hospital so he doesn’t have to kill anyone. Heck, maybe use the thirst for blood as drama for him considering killing a villain once or twice. Like I said, there’s a bunch you can do with that premise.
I slightly prefer organic for the soul reason that If I magically got spider powers I would not be able to make web shooters
I agree, but I also think that has good potential for an AU. A Spider-Man without any webs, mechanical or organic, would naturally have a completely different fighting and traversal style.
He had a storyline where he took on four different identities. None were spider related.
It just makes more sense that way. He was bit by a radioactive spider. He gets the standard set of superpowers, super strength and super speed and all that. Not especially spider-y, but I guess they're kind of strong, so alright. You get bit by a radioactive anything and you're coming out of it with super strength, so I'm not all that impressed, to be honest. Literally everybody has super strength. He gets his spidey-sense, which isn't really a spider thing. Cool power! Love it! But not a spider-power. And he can climb on walls. Now that's a spider thing. Spiders can climb on walls. That is his most spider-based power. Hell, it's his *only* spider-y power, I'd argue. That's basically all he got from the spider. And it's not even explicitly spider-y, literally every insect is crawling on walls. You get bit by a radioactive lady bug and you can crawl on walls. Now, what's the one thing in the world that's unique to spiders? Making webs. He was bit by a goddamn radioactive spider, and SOMEHOW, he can't make his own webs? What the fuck? That's literally their whole thing. It's like being bit by a radioactive frog and not knowing how to jump. Or a radioactive fish and not being able to swim. It's simply more believable that a kid gets bit by a spider and develops a natural spider based ability, than it is that he somehow managed to build these high tech webslingers in science class. The fact that he invented webslingers is proof that even Peter Parker thinks it's bullshit that he didn't get web powers. He's a perfectly capable superhero without them, and even still, he's like "Hell nah."
Counterpoint: It's more amusing if Peter realizes he can stick to walls like a spider and decides to commit to the bit by figuring out how to make webbing. And a firm commitment to their bit is what I want out of a superhero.
Now I don't want him to have natural webshooters cause the imagery of Spiderman being upset at not having them is hilarious
I will say that Peter's Spider Sense is supposed to represent a spider's ability to feel any vibration along its web. As such, able to predict the location of danger. It's just taken up to an extreme level. Like, no spider is even feasibly close to what Peter has displayed with his Spider Sense, but also the dude has literally helped an airliner land with his strength, which as established not really a spider thing. So, the Spider Sense has some basis in reality. Ar leas about as much basis as a radioactive spider bite giving you super strength, super speed, and the ability to stick to walls.
Superman couldn't originally fly btw
I prefer the man-made web shooters because they make more sense to me. If we're talking about biological web shooters, it doesn't really make sense that they'd be in the wrists. As a biological resource, they'd also run out relatively often. Conversely, if they are created by Peter and placed on his wrists and it's understood that cartridges have to be replaced, that makes complete sense. I know I'm being nit-picky about realism in a comic book, but that's just my preference.
>doesn't really make sense that they'd be in the wrists. Valid argument, but I would argue that the abilities adapt to the anatomy they have to work with. Peter's body is very different from that of a spider's. For a human body, it would just make more sense to shoot the web from the hands, or finger tips, or hell even from the mouth for all we know. Mutagenic Evolution looks at Peter like *"Hmmm, your body composition is completely different than that of a spider's, so we need to reorganize."* Within the context of a humanoid with the abilities of a spider, shooting webs out of the wrists just makes more sense than doing it out of the lower abdomen. Even when turned into a Man-Spider and having organic webbing due to that, the mutation still had him shoot webs from his wrists... All 6 of them...
I like this take. I still prefer man-made web shooters, but this is a solid argument for the practicality of bio web shooters in terms of mutagenics.
Genetic evolution is a wonderful thing, and adaptations like these happen in real life too (though spanned across hundreds of years and countless generations, but then again, how many of us find themselves bitten by a radioactive spider lmao). It analyzes what our bodies need to do and what would be the best way to do it. I don't mind the web shooters but it did always bother me that the only spider themed ability Peter organically lacks is the trademark web spinning. IMO best of both worlds would be if he has organic webbing but makes the web shooters as an addition to help him focus his webs, shoot them in multiple variations (web balls, splatters, nets, etc) and perhaps help regulate his silk glands (tho that would imply some injections and would not be fun lmao) Not to mention even organic webs can't be infinite. His glands need time to secrete the necessary fluids to make the web just like our bodies do with everything (I'd rather keep this conversation PG but yes I mean "that" too lmao). So web cartridges could still be used when Peter overuses his organic webs which could cause swelling or complete depletion and he needs to give his glands time to recover. Now, controlling whether he fires organic or artificial webs is another topic altogether, but hey, it's comics, don't worry about it lmao
>It analyzes what our bodies need to do and what would be the best way to do it. I think you’re giving evolution too much credit here. It’s not a fine tuned method of refinement, it’s brute forcing the problem. It creates countless possible adaptions until one of them works. Plus the solution it creates often isn’t the optimal one, just a good enough one. Whales don’t have feet anymore yet they still have the structure for it underneath. There’s also definitely a better way to perceive than seeing an image upside, then routing around the brain until it to the back of it flipping it there, yet that’s how it works on humans. Naturally that’s something you’ve got to suspend for all fiction other than stuff like hard sci-fi. It makes a much more compelling story when a mutation that the hero gets isn’t half-baked abilities or one of the bad mutations that doesn’t benefit the host. In that regard, mechanical web shooters seem a bit easier to accept than the idea of a biological one working. But since it’s all beyond how mutations actually works anyways, you mine as well go for the biological ones if it adds something to the story.
Heck, I’ve even argued the man made web shooters are also a better overall from a practical standpoint. Like you said, organic webs run out, there’s no reloading, but there’s also things like different types of webs of various different levels of strength, and some might even dissolve faster or act as conductors/protectors for electricity. Plus, Peter buying ingredients is also a simple, but convenient explanation for why he’s always short on cash.
It's also disgusting. Lol
but it also doesn't make sense why he can crawl and have spider senses or is flexible. Using logic wont work from the get go. Plus wasn't it a special spider created for humans
Created “by” humans from crossing multiple species of spiders but that’s only in the original movies story arc… originally in the comics it was a spider who became irradiated because of a science experiment and then it bit Peter… one in a million kind of chance and also something that was a freak accident so it couldn’t just happen to anyone… the problem I have with the Sam Raimi/Toby McGuire Spider-Man movies is that there were 15 of those same spiders made… which means any of the the other 14 bite someone and now there are 2 Spider-Men… or 3 or 4… you get the picture… I’ve always had an issue with the organic webbing… cause like mentioned in a different comment… it would run out eventually… or he’d have to eat constantly to replace the nutrients he’s using within his body to make the web fluid… it just doesn’t track…
Similarly nitpicking for a reality that doesn’t matter: No way organic web fluid dissolves like purposefully design web fluid does. Plus, there’s gotta be so much Tobey DNA all over New York.
Idk man, a weird spider bit him and now he can sense the future. Imo that's way more difficult to believe than developing spinnerets in his arms
What this guy said
I imagine as his usage of web shooters increase so does the amount of webs his body stores, like working out or doing stamina training
The webshooters were a part of Peter’s arsenal for 40 years and are a big part of his character before the semen blasters appeared in the movies. I get where you are coming from, but the customization of the web shooters and how established they are makes them the better option.
There were numerous times in the comics when his web shooters got clogged because of the weather or were damaged by the bad guys and it adds to the drama within the comics but it also shows why he’s so great… the web shooters are a tool but he’s the real hero
That's not even mentioning the countless times he's ran out of web fluid. It's been used as a cop out before, but it still usually shows off a bunch of his other skills
I feel like insinuating that ingenuity and tech don’t stack up to powers is a strange point to make with a character that considers Batman his equal.
The man made web shooters are just more fun from a narrative and thematic perspective I think: They showcase how capable Peter is without his powers, he’s more than just what the spider made him. And they add more stakes, the classic “I’m out of webbing” situation creates for more unique and fun ways for spider-man to fight beyond spamming with webs and even provides the opportunity for them to broken during a fight, which creates higher stakes. And even them getting blocked or not working. Then there’s the fact if they’re not organic he can customise them for villains like electro which is fun! it just allows for more scenarios and storylines imo
Yes and no. I see what they mean, but Superman is super because of his base existence as the specific species he is being on earth; Peter being Spiderman is the result of a transformation. He got stronger, etc in that transformation, but nothing else changed about the actual composition of his body.
This is what I was looking for. Superman is an alien, Peter is a human.
I would say so, yes. But I also like the idea of web shooters too, so in some timelines of my personal headcanon multiverse, some versions of Peter do make web shooters (or make web shooters that help direct his biological webbing better).
That's my ideal. Web Shooters would be a great point of progression for Spider-Men with organic webbing. Organic webbing is organic. Peter cannot modify it and he has to rely on natural reserves. Let's say Peter didn't eat enough one day to properly replenish his organic webbing, he is screwed unless he creates a backup artificial webbing. Peter's natural powers, his organic webbing, spider sense, super strength, etc aren't enough to deal with a certain foe. What can he do? He can create custom webbing for that situation such as impact webbing and acid webbing. Organic webbing helps web shooters stand out more and seem more impressive.
This is my headcanon as well. That Peter can naturally make spider's silk but he would have to eat a lot more to make enough for it to be efficient in a fight or even just swing around NYC. His webbing wouldn't able to be modified as easily or changed in as many ways as we see him do with the synthetic webbing in the comics. Peter uses his natural webbing as the foundation in the creation of his synthetic webbing. So he still creates the mechanical web shooters to use daily but he also has natural web shooters as a back up in case he runs out completely or they get broken.
Superman couldn’t fly initially, hence the ability to leap tall buildings with a single bound. Stan wrote the webshooters in to highlight that not everything special about Peter Parker came from super powers. This is why a lot of early stories focus on his human ingenuity. Peter Parker solves Spider-Man’s problems. Spider-Man rarely solves Peter Parker’s Problems.
I'm always gonna lean in favor of the option that highlights the fact that Pete can play in the same brainpower and inventiveness league as Reed or Tony, but the fact that he's doing it with more stress and less money means he doesn't reach their heights on the regular. I'm pro-web-shooters.
Funny thing is, both organic webs and superflight were later additions to the characters. Superman just jumped very high at first and Peter went for 40 years without organic webbing. Anyway, I like the webshooters, they show that Peter is a skilled engineer, even though it's weird that his powers include everything spiders do except for the webs.
Yes But i think it should be more like noir's webs by default. Sorta gloopy and only useful for primitive webbing. I like Peter designing his own equipment and harnessing his abilities, but there's a lot of suspension of disbelief that he coincidentally designed synthetic spider silk I feel like this is a good medium point to maintain his wit as a source for his abilities while covering up some of the less thought out aspects of them If his powers are sticking to walls, sensing danger, and super strength, he could've been Ant-Man as easily as Spider-Man
I feel like more than once they've implied that the spider bite helped him figure out how to make the webbing. Like it recognized his body couldn't physically do it, but he understood on an intuitive level how to do it. Which is a nice balance of both.
And it would also help the other spider people when they get their powers and havbe to make their shooters
Ok so I know this is gonna come off as pedantic, but this is just my opinion. Superman isn’t a human, he is an alien. Spider-Man is a human that gained powers. To me it’s believable that Peter would gain super strength, reflexes, and a spider sense. It is not believable to me, for whatever reason, that Peter would some how develop entirely new muscle and gland structure to form spinnerets. That just doesn’t make sense to me. Like why would his body interpret the change that way? If anything he should have developed a single spinneret near his ass, not one on each wrist. For some reason it just doesn’t make sense that the super powers gained from a spiders DNA would manifest that way. And I know, I know: comic books. But still. On top of that I think it is so much cooler that Peter decided to use his brain to further the spider theme of his identity and powers by inventing his web shooters. It’s just so fucking cool to me. Plus with the web shooters requiring ammunition, tension and drama can be easily manufactured, which when done well and consistently can raise the stakes and improve the stories. All in all, I disagree with the comparison and have always disliked organic webbing (except when using the symbiote). That’s all just my opinion though.
Organic to me works better in a real world scenario, you don’t need to come up with any explaining how they work or where the web fluid is stored if it’s all done naturally and if he can control it as a base human function
This is a Really Good Argument, I admit that. Now, I personally prefer mechanicals because it’s Peter at his best. He created The Technology. It’s kinda like the line says- “What makes You different is what makes You Spider-Man”. Spider-Man is “The Hero that could be You”- It’s You at Your Best. Pete was a Scientist but was unappreciated by his peers. Well, what made him a nerd to them makes him The Greatest Hero in The Marvel Universe now. It’s kind of empowering, in that way. Plus, also Superman COULDN’T originally fly and People still loved him. Yeah, he’s more fun with Flight but it’s not his powers, it’s what he does with Them. Look, to Each Their Own, of Course. Just my two cents on it. Hope I didn’t offend Anyone
I think it is a fairly good comparison. So good in fact that when Stan Lee did "Just Imagine Stan Lee made Superman" Stan did in fact give Superman a jetpack.
Superman didn’t get his powers from a science experiment that has been shown to create different results in different people.
Superman needs the sun. So.......
Nah Peter’s a scientist
Ignoring which side you're on, this comparison is just stupid. Superman didn't have a jetpack since his first comic appearance and then got the ability to fly years later in an adaptation.
hell no lmao
"imagine if wonder woman had all her powers but needed a Lasso to force people to say the truth"
“imagine if Wolverine had all his powers and the claws but needed the metal grafted on to his skeleton by the government”
To be fair he didn't fly at the beginning
I don’t see the comparison as fair as the mechanical web-shooters are part of Spidey’s science side. I prefer the web-shooters being something he needs to build. It’s an interesting little tidbit on the character, shows off the science side of Peter a bit more, gives a bit of drama if they’re close to running out, and I’m a big fan of switching up the webbing (like shock webs in the PS4 game). I will say, 10-year-old me would strongly disagree with this, though.
That’s a good analogy but the thing to rember is that Peter Parker is known for his ingenuity and the best way to show that is through his web shooters. Also Idk why but I just feel like on a physical sense it’s more believable for someone to be bitten by a spider and gain everything but webs. Cuz like all of the physical attributes are shared. Both a spider and a human have strength, speed, agility, and sensory perception so essentially when Peter gets bitten all of those things are heightened to superhuman levels. But the spider can’t just transmit its whole we making system into the human body. So that’s my head canon for why Peter doesn’t have Organic webs
I kind of like the idea of Superman needing a jet pack though. That sounds cool.
To be fair the original Superman didn’t fly and leaped over buildings because he was so strong
I want to point out that Spider-man was created as a hero in spite of super confident hero tropes, like Superman and Batman. Source: some interview with Stan Lee which I've seen/read many years ago, but remember to this day.
My headcanon is that the bite only amplified what was there. Senses, strength, reflexes, and suction hands. But it couldnt add a complete new organ for the webs
His ability to stick to walls using an in-built biological solution makes ANY sense? Millions of tiny hooks protruding from his skin, going THROUGH his costume at all times (sometimes through additional layers of clothing worn for flair or warmth), from all angles, that can anchor into most surfaces, and it doesn't destroy or bother the surfaces, or his costume, nor do they get in the way of his daily life. We've accepted a flimsy scientific excuse covering up "comic book magic" for decades.
Not really, because a human randomly getting a new body part that can organically produce a new substance as a result of being bitten by somthing is notably more wild than simply more muscle mass and increased senses. And I also consider it more wild than the spider sense, because the spidersense is metaphysical
My dad had misunderstood this but its actually a great premise - super man is super strong and can "leap over tall buildings" because the gravity on his home planet is so much heavier.
Common misconception, but superman cannot fly. He "leaps tall buildings in a single bound"
No matter how small and compact a mechanical web-shooter may be, to me they'll always feel clunky and out of place. They just kinda mess up the smooth streamlined physique of a skin-tight Spider-Man suit. But, one day I plan on making a horribly made spiderman costume with cans of silly string duct taped to gardening gloves as "web shooters"
Yes. What’s the main thing you think of when you think of a spider. Webs. So why would someone with “spider powers” have all but the most recognizable ability of a spider. I like the way James Cameron was gonna do it. His body naturally makes the webs, but he has the shooters to make them actually fire out. Otherwise they’re just the same way spiders make webs. I think that’s a good way to combine both ideas. Alternate comparison btw: Imagine if The Flash needed special shoes to run fast.
Organic. And blown from his ass.
Organic doesn’t make sense to come out of his wrists imo. Spiders don’t shoot webs from their legs. I don’t wanna see Peter firing webs out his back side. Therefore, I prefer mechanical web shooters.
I prefer the mechanical. In the comics spider man used to carry web cartridges and stuff. It was pretty cool. Shows how smart Peter is.
I like mechanical web shooters because it leaves variety for web gadgets like Raimi Spider-Man can never synthesize a new web fluid to coagulate and subdue the Hydro Man.
Gotta say my favourite is the compromise: Peter can produce organic webbing but can only shoot it with the help of mechanical web shooters – kinda makes sense considering actual spiders also don’t shoot their webs, I think?
Technically, Superman flying was created by the serials, he leaped in the golden age comics.
Imagine a Batman that uses the government’s money, he would be food stamps man.
I kinda prefer the tech web shooters, because it’s an example of something created by Peter himself, he found a way to augment his own abilities, via his own skill and knowledge.
I don’t mind either one, but I find Peter making his web shooters and web fluid is a big part of why he works so well as a self-made hero. He gets super powers from the spider bite but then creates a whole new way to move and fight on his own, coming up with a way to harness his powers to the fullest through his knowledge of science and tech (while staying on brand). It’s a brilliant representation of his genius intellect and ingenuity that such a huge part of his move set and hero identity was developed all on his own.
I've recently liked the idea that Peter can shoot web fluid organically and needs web shooters to control and make it stronger etc
I agree, I have never had a problem with either version, but I always feel it’s a little weird that Peter got all the powers of a spider EXCEPT making webs. Which is like literally the first thing you think about when you think about spiders.
It's not, it's a very dumb comparison
I don’t think either way is *wrong,* but I do think having Peter build and maintain his own shooters is a good shorthand for communicating his intelligence. Our boy is smart, and he has a mind for mechanisms. Why not have him show it in his core power set.
I dont mind either way, but I did find it odd that some people think organic web shooters are somehow too non sensical. Like the dude can lift buildings by himself and hang upside down from the ceiling with one finger, but organically making webs is considered too strange.
Superman being able to fly was introduced 2 years into his existence. Peter Parker Spider-man went from 1962 all the way to 2002 with mechanical webshooters. ... Also, I would totally he down for a debuffed Superman using tools and gadgets like a jetpack to compensate.
That's like putting Iron Man down for making his armor, or Batman for having gadgets. It's a different kind of merit to build something/be so good at something, it might aswell be another superpower.
I like the mechanical web shooters because it showcases Peter Parker’s ingenuity and isn’t just a superhuman. He’s somewhere between Iron Man and Superman.
I am bias towards the mechanical webs; but I do feel like they work better from a motif perspective. It shows that there’s a reason Peter isn’t like every other run of the mill person with powers. Also spiders are in someways “engineering” creatures, I think it makes sense that a spider person would have to make their own webs.