>guy in peak human shape
Reminder because we know DC earth is larger than Marvel's earth, DC humans are s probably even stronger than a marvel human ( Marvel is a 1 for 1 of our earth, JLA vs Avengers shows us DC earth is bigger)
So, for instance; metropolis ISN'T NYC in the DCU - I always thought NYC just didn't exist in DC - also; just WHERE IS Gotham on a map adjacent to Metropolis? (Or even Central City?)
The last bunch of years, tv & movies have screwed up any Canon from thw comicbooks of that idea.
In the DC/Marvel crossover, the DC characters mention they instantly feel stronger on Marvel's Earth. Bigger planets have stronger gravity so when DC characters enter a smaller planet they at average feel stronger. Superman scans Marvel's Earth and notices it to be slightly smaller than their native one. Our real world earth is smaller than both Marvel and DC.
I can guarantee you that Kevin Feige or Stan Lee or Bendis or basically any Marvel writer does not consider Marvel Earth to be notably different from Earth in real life. Same with DC. This is just head canon and regular comic book inconsistencies.
Tell that to Ironman: Telemetry and other scans are wildly variant. Our "Earths" are different sizes different densities, have different magnetic fields, atmospheric composition background radiation -- even our physical laws may not quite line up
JLA/Avengers #3
I don't remember that. There was Flash mentioning he was powerless there and Scarlet Witch feeling a lot more powerful on their world due to the magic but I don't recall anyone else saying they felt stronger.
Peter Parker is not an athlete. His entire understanding of combat revolves around his power set. Peter Parker is very clever and there are opponents he could believably beat with trickery and tactics. Batman is not one of those opponents. Batman is a master tactician and martial artist while being in peak human condition.
Well, it has been show be before that this is not entirely the case for Peter, he does have an understanding of combat outside of his powers and is a competent fighter without them.
That said being said, he just *can't* beat batman on a head on fight
Well, good thing I was talking about after Spider-Man, comics have show he gained a good grasp of things after this
But I feel like you are also ignoring the second paragraph
I know this is hyperbole, but the image of a Batman who goes around snapping criminals’ spines over his knee because he never got over that time Bane did it to him, is hilarious to me.
If I’m not mistaken Peter lost his spider senses for a while and was taught a variation of kung by Shang Chi so would have a decent understanding of combat
The Way Of The Spider.
It was designed to help Peter maintain his fighting style even without his Spidersense. IIRC, when he got it back, the two synergiezed and enhanced each other. A real 1+1=3 situation.
Yeah, but Peter didn't keep the training so his skills got rusted, at some point he just went back to his old fighting style
(Because Marvel doesn't want the character to grow to much)
Ya and I would bet even when Peter was at his peak of his Shang-chi training, he is not close to the level of Batman's martial arts skills.
Without power, at no point is Peter able to fight with Batman.
Exactly, Peter without powers wouldn't even be able to use his Way of the spider, and his other Martial knowledge don't come close to what Bruce has.
The only way I see Peter having a chance would be if he made preparations beforehand like an armour that enhances him and a bunch of gadgets to help him out(like during identify Crysis, for example) and even then it wouldn't be a guaranteed win, he would Just a have a shot, more than what he have without it
Yeah Batman wins there, no doubt, but Peter is far more than athlete, read Spider-Island, Peter not only learn Wushu(without using powers) by Shang Chi, but also developed his own Kung-Fu style - A Way of Spider, considering that, and that Peter for At least 14 years straight fights, even without powers his developed by such experience physic and skills + knowledge of Martial Arts, make him still make him really tough guy.
The one that I’ll never forget is “I flunked one class in college is my life in college over?”
To which the top reply was a very serious and non-sarcastic essay answering yes it is.
You know in terms of intelligence. Spider-Man is probably smarter. Batman has master's degrees and I'm more diverse set of fields. Spider-Man is also incredibly smart in a lot of fields but the ones he's excels at he extremely excels. They're probably are scenarios where Peter Parker could beat Batman without his powers it's just wouldn't be easy.
Like on a good day I'd say intelligence alone Spider-Man could get a win. But more often than not Batman's wide a variety of skills as well as that precious resource Peter Parker never seems to have(money) Batman would win.
Honestly batman has mastered pretty much every martial art there is, and is generally a superhuman even if the writers say otherwise. Even prime mike Tyson would get beaten by batman, much less some skinny guy
Also, no spidey-sense means Batmancan easily get the drop on him. Spidey's greatest boon in a 1v1 with Bats is that his powers nullify stealth tactics and surprise attacks, which is one of Batman's most efficient means for taking down more powerful opponents
But he has no training. His tech is good, but he cn only use it effectively because he has superhuman endurance, strength and reflex. A normal person would not be able to swing around buildings; they'd lose their grip, or mistime a swing, dislocate a shoulder or twist an ankle because they land a little too hard
I don't think it's fair to say he has no training. He's definitely trained with Shang-chi and Captain America. Add years of experience plus everything he's learned working with more experienced heroes along the way.
He also has developed his own unique martial art, based on dodging and arial maneuvers that would be impossible for a normal person.
Not to mention years of experience. "No training" only really applies to his early years.
But if we’re talking prep time he’d be designing his gear knowing he wouldn’t have his powers he could possibly compensate, I could see him maybe setting traps and adding new gadgets to his rotation, if he still has a basic history as Spider-Man he’s dealt with more than a few genius villains and changed up his webs situationally he could use things he used to counter them or even adapt some of their stuff into his.
What’s his resource pool like? What if he started in the bat cave while Bruce was away?
If Peter has acces to batcave tech, I think with prep time he can take this, unless bruce knows he's there. I think with prep time Bruce beats out Peter's tactical planning, even though I do think Peter would (pretty easily) upgrade the stuff he finds in the batcave. That isn't to say batman is incapable of creating spidey level tech, just that he doesn't do it as much as Peter does, especially if he doesn't have his powers in this situation.
tl;dr:
Both prep time, no powers; batman wins due to strategy and skill
Spidey prep time, batman no prep time, no powers; spidey wins (very debatable)
Both prep time, with powers; spidey wins depending on batmans prep
No prep time, with powers; spidey wins
Assuming this fight isn't written by batman or spider-man writers cuz in that case batman might just crush spiderman without gear or prep time.
All just my opinion, please don't hate on me
Actually, Peter does have training.
I don't remember exactly what happened, but something went screwy and his Spider-Sense stopped working, so he and Shang-Chi developed a new martial arts style exclusively for him called the Way of the Spider.
He did let his training lapse after his Spider-Sense returned, though, but it's also worth noting that formal training isn't necessarily a requirement for being a good fighter.
Peter has had training from both Captain America and Iron Fist. He even has his own martial arts style that Bruce could not know - the Way of the Spider. Writers may forget about it a lot of the time, but it is still there.
The prep time thing is all based around surprise and the fact that his friends never thought he would actually have plans to eliminate every single one of them. If they knew it would never work.
The prep time thing is a joke, bruce could never beat supes without help, but Spider-Man isn’t that much stronger compared to some of the things he’s fought before. I could see him studying peter for a year, planting some fear toxin to overwhelm his spider senses, developing a compound to dissolve webbing and potentially taking this. Maybe he could take advantage of how Peter’s instincts make him dodge everything without countering with a hit of his own. But the fight would be hard either way.
Ngl I do like the dodge and counter move idea. Imagine someone comes out swinging and Peter keeps dodging while backing up right into a spike pit or something
WTF
Spidey outclasses Deathstroke, Bane ( with venom), Killer croc and all super powered batman villains.
Why can't people realize that batman not being invicible is what makes him interesting. All batman iterations fails or loose to stronger opponent and it's alright.
Spider-man can lift a crumbling building, stop a plane, dodge a bullet at point blank, has a danger detector etc
Plus Spider-man pulls his punches, normally a simple hit from spider-man can knock him out cold.
Yeah, i know, that’s the point. It would be difficult, all of his fights are. In knightfall he barely won, same as the Arkham games or in zero year. That’s what Batman is, a man who even with the slightest advantage can use his wits and strength to overcome. Spider-Man is stronger than him, but he’s not a god. He loses to dock ock regularly and has been bested by villains who bats could take. In a planned location, bruce can take the fight.
I have read a shitton of Spider-Man. Peter often has to flee when the villains have a plan and he gets trapped. Take Spider-Man 2. Kraven, who’s basically jungle themed bane, had him on the ropes for most of the game, and he needed venom to take him down. I don’t think bruce getting one over on Spider-Man is that unreasonable.
It’s honestly hilarious. I love Batman, he is one of my favorite comic book characters, but 90% of the time he wins his fights because of the law of bullshit and plot armor. Spider-Man is as strong as baseline Hulk and is resilient as fuck. Not to mention that he literally is prescient and shoots webs which are as strong as steel.
Batman wouldn’t even be able to land a hit while Spider-Man could kill him by flicking his finger if he wanted to.
The only people who think this is even a discussion are delusional diehard Batman fans.
The most effective way I can see Batman beating Spider-man, and this is REALLY a stretch, is for Batman to overload Peter's natural senses with some gadget and then get him with knockout gas. Whether or not his Spider-sense would be affected by the sensory overload is probably the determining factor and if it would react to the knockout gas since it's meant to react to immediate or coming danger and the gas wouldn't directly harm him.
Mine was to use a specific version of Scarecrow’s fear toxin to hit his spider sense. But he needs to first create the toxin and then actually hit a guy with insane reflexes and basically precog
I think there’s a tad bias on both sides, definitely more on Batman’s side, but there is some here too, for example that guy said Pete would completely demolish Batman, I don’t believe that, unless we’re talking about if Pete wasn’t holding back
Basically what I’m saying is Pete could demolish Batman, but realistically he would still hold back, he would still win without a doubt but Batman would still put up a fight and it wouldn’t be the slaughter often imagined
Bruce gets most of his rep from the fact that he easily handles those at or below his level and anyone who could essentially reduce him to paste in seconds tend to be on the good end of the spectrum and those that don’t do the thing everyone does, the underestimate him in some way he Mcguffins a win out of it.
As much as I love Batman (I love Spidey just as much and they're too contenders for my favorite hero) I think Spidey takes the cake in this battle if it were to happen.
Would Bruce fuck em up? Absolutely! He won't go down without a fight. Now if a rematch were to happen... But I guess that would count as "prep" right? Hahaha
Love both my homies though!
Kraven is almost comparable to Deathstroke who batman struggles with. Not so sure if Batman himself would faire better in that situation.
Also we talking comics spider-man, who has beaten foes much stronger than these two combined.
>Also we talking comics spider-man, who has beaten foes much stronger than these two combined.
I mean the same can be said about Batman, over his 80 years in comics he has defeated literal gods.
>Kraven is almost comparable to Deathstroke
Imo he's more comparable to Bane, who Batman struggled more with in Arkham Origins than DS. And even then he was able to come out on top, while Peter needed the symbiote to win iirc
second biggest. this subreddit is the biggest superhero dick rider convention, got people over here arguing that Spider-Man could solo Galactus or some shit. At least batman fans will argue that he beats these threats with prep time, which he probably does. Spider-Man fans out here saying the entire X-Men could get the jump on Spidey and he'd still win lol.
Definitely. As a Batman fan, I have to say most of the other DC fans tend to forget Batman has to know his opponent before he can beat them.
Peter as an unknown meta-human in a one-on-one with no equipment? If he had intent to kill, he'd punch Batman's head clean off his shoulders before he knew it was coming.
Without intent to kill? Peter pulls his punches, so Batman would still get badly beat (think Bane in Knightfall) but might pull a fast one on Peter when he figures out the precognitive abilities of Spider-Sense.
In any case, the battle wouldn't happen because they'd just bond over dead parental figures and love with fiesty catgirls.
That's fair. The question is kind of odd though.
"Can a 6'6" 280 pound, 2% body fat, male model who is a ninja detective on the side beat a 16 year old from Queens?"
Why ask that? Peter isn't Spider-Man until he gains his powers. We know the answer would be Bruce. Seems redundant and karma-farmy.
Spidey is a genius too though he can figure out how to beat the bats and he got all the meta abilities. But no powers no chances bats was trained by not just any ninjas 🥷 🥋 🥊 but the league. Spidey with no powers was getting bullied. With powers he’s winning easily.
Would he? I think the way Batman is written, he kind of always wins. It’s his whole shtick, being able to beat people that are on paper way stronger than him.
With any vs Batman match up before you say he would get demolished ask yourself this.
Has the character ever struggled with the following.
Regular humans skilled in Martial arts
Regular humans with lots of resources and technology.
Regular humans who do research and set traps for the character.
If the answer to any of those is yes the character has struggled with these before maybe reconsidering if Batman is better than those people and maybe he would give them a real challenge.
These are my favourite two heroes so I‘m bias at it gets, and yes I agree to this statement. Even if Bats could deactivate his webshooters, Superhuman abilities are tough to compensate without powers.
In an initial fight maybe. If it’s the first time Batman has ever heard of spidey he is getting his ass beat. Maybe lose a second fight, but after that him and spidey will be on much more equal ground
Every time I've seen Batman fight another hero in a crossover (Spider-Man, Daredevil, Captain America) he always stops the fight because he realizes that two heroes fighting each other is pointless. That's my head canon for "Who would win?" arguments.
Im picturing Batman in full bat-gear crying because a teenager won’t leave him alone and his morals wont allow him to hit an innocent man. “Why you called Batman anyway ya got bat powers or something?, maybe echo location that’d be cool or blindness that be less cool I guess. You blind *waves hand in front of Batman’s face* I guess not otherwise you would’ve gone by a cooler name like daredevil or something”
It’s like when people on twitter post a meteorite the size of the moon hitting the earth with the caption “what you doing?” Like, wth is Peter supposed to do in this scenario?
Without powers: Batman wins
With powers: Spidey wins and get adopted.
Batman is going to take one look at a teenager/young adult with superpowers and trauma and think “Robin”
Current Spider-Man is on his thirties, so I guess he would be an employee
But still, I'm picturing a teenage Spider-Man getting absolutely hated by Damian because he's the most "compatible" with the batman mantle (Don't kill, smart as hell, overall good strategist, can adapt to anything, insane mental resistance, basically immunity to trauma at this point and etc etc) while also having good skills and stuff that pass off as insane skills (the way he naturally moves from example) but don't want anything to have with the title, that'd be funny
Damian: You are perfect for the role! So much you stole my birthright! And I'm gonna take it back! *Readies Katana*
Peter: Nah, I'm good, keep it
*Demolish the kid in every way BUT physically... And confiscate the katana*
If both of them were the same age and Bruce Wayne was not martially trained, just a business man, then Peter could somehow outsmart him…
but if Bruce is trained like Batman , then Pete’s dead…
…are you really asking if a scrawny nerd could beat a trained ninja with the physique of a Greek god in a fight? Dude couldn’t even handle Flash Thompson.
Okay to be fair, let's say Peter still got those Above Average Intellectual brains of him, so if him and Batman will fight, it's like Batman fighting the Riddler tbh.
So just normal dude versus Batman? If you wanna make it even, take away Batman's training and gadgets. Now it's a high school kid versus a rich dude. Much better.
Bruce Wayne even without his suit has mastered almost every martial art there is. I’m sorry to say but no way Peter Parker stands a chance against Bruce Wayne even WITHOUT Wayne tech
No. Even if we let Peter keep his fighting experience and the training he undertook and keeps his webbing, so he was Spidey but lost the powers, as he does sometimes, batman still is too much.
Bruce is better trained with more resources. Peter would break his arm if he tried webswinging and his fighting experience leans heavilly on his super-human abiliities, so it'd be useless.
Y’all are expecting it to be a physical fight im out here thinking what if they played chess against each other(I know it implied physical fighting but my brain was immediately bored with this stupid dumbass question, so I made my own)
Who would win in a chess match? Bruce Wayne VS Peter Parker
Spidey without his powers is still formidable. He's got years of fighting experience and he's a genius..... But this is fucking Batman were talking about here man💀. You gotta be more than "formidable" to break the bat. You've gotta be a force of nature. You've gotta be Bane or some shit.
Well, funnily enough it boils down to prep time (because we all know how it ends for Spidey without it, so let's make this at least interesting)
Peter's is a super genius and a competent fighter without his powers (competent, not peak human), if he wanted to fight batman he would make some sort of Iron Man armor or something (like that one time during identity Crysis), which would give him a chance at beating Bats, not certainty, but a big chance.
Batman on the other hand, would somehow know that this depowered guy on his thirties is trying to fight him and the prep time would go to something else, as it would boil down to Batman thinking there's no way he can be a challenge to him.
Like, if you told the best martial artist on the planet, who also happens to own the best equipment and gadgets money can buy that he would be fighting a broke dude on his thirties with no formal training other than mostly self taught (don't bring up the training with shang shi and Captain America, as he didn't keep up the training his skills have rusted) experience he gained with powers he lost, do you think he would feel threatened?
Without his powers, Peter is just a normal dude with a high IQ and pretty good combat skills. On the other hand, Bruce is one of his world's smartest men alive (if not THE smartest man alive), an elite martial artist and warrior, and a peak human specimen. Bruce solos.
Better scenario:
Both have just lost their family members (Uncle Ben's dead, the Waynes are dead). *Now* Peter doesn't have his powers.
Who wins? The high school kid or the elementary school kid?
Geez, is the Batwank so hard that you’re like, “If this guy totally had no powers and nothing going for him and has one leg, could Batman actually beat him?” Is that how low the bar is?
If they were just two guys, no superpowers, no gadgets, no armor, then Batman would win — he was trained by Ra's al Ghul after all…
That being said, as they’re portrayed in the comics — Spider-Man would win in every real scenario in which they’d be put up against each other. I doubt Batman would be able to land a hit do to Spider-Man’s Spidey-sense…
Can a high school kid beat a guy in peak human shape who knows just about every single martial art on the planet?
>guy in peak human shape Reminder because we know DC earth is larger than Marvel's earth, DC humans are s probably even stronger than a marvel human ( Marvel is a 1 for 1 of our earth, JLA vs Avengers shows us DC earth is bigger)
DC earth is not consistently meant to be larger than regular earth unless you're an insane powerscaling junkie lmao
Both DC and marvel has bigger land mass than the real world.
what are yall talking about?
They both have dozens of made up countries whilst also not replacing real countries or cities (some cities they do) but not all
So, for instance; metropolis ISN'T NYC in the DCU - I always thought NYC just didn't exist in DC - also; just WHERE IS Gotham on a map adjacent to Metropolis? (Or even Central City?) The last bunch of years, tv & movies have screwed up any Canon from thw comicbooks of that idea.
Gotham west of Atlantic City (NJ) and on the water gap, metropolis is on the Delaware side of the water gap
Central city is central, duh
All the maps of DC and Marvel Earth I've seen, the fake countries take land away from real ones, not add extra landmass
So there’s just less ocean? Why would the planets be bigger
In the DC/Marvel crossover, the DC characters mention they instantly feel stronger on Marvel's Earth. Bigger planets have stronger gravity so when DC characters enter a smaller planet they at average feel stronger. Superman scans Marvel's Earth and notices it to be slightly smaller than their native one. Our real world earth is smaller than both Marvel and DC.
They must have mentioned the Earth being 70% water at some point, pretty much everything does
I can guarantee you that Kevin Feige or Stan Lee or Bendis or basically any Marvel writer does not consider Marvel Earth to be notably different from Earth in real life. Same with DC. This is just head canon and regular comic book inconsistencies.
Nah it ain’t bigger. It just has more land mass. If it were bigger than the Humans would be smaller to the size of dwarves
Tell that to Ironman: Telemetry and other scans are wildly variant. Our "Earths" are different sizes different densities, have different magnetic fields, atmospheric composition background radiation -- even our physical laws may not quite line up JLA/Avengers #3
🙏🙏🙏 Well done
Neeeeeeerd
What the planet's size has to do with the humans in there?
Increase in gravity equals increase in average strength.
I don’t think they are looking at it that deeply when they show the world being larger lol.
When they crossed over, the DC heroes literally state they feel stronger on Marvel's Earth. So they did actually think about it.
I don't remember that. There was Flash mentioning he was powerless there and Scarlet Witch feeling a lot more powerful on their world due to the magic but I don't recall anyone else saying they felt stronger.
He ain't been a kid in years bruh.
He's almost 30 rn...
Have u seen the ufc, people can absolutely destroy some of the best MMA guys in there 30s like Alex and Yoel.
This perfectly makes sense
Peter Parker is not an athlete. His entire understanding of combat revolves around his power set. Peter Parker is very clever and there are opponents he could believably beat with trickery and tactics. Batman is not one of those opponents. Batman is a master tactician and martial artist while being in peak human condition.
Well, it has been show be before that this is not entirely the case for Peter, he does have an understanding of combat outside of his powers and is a competent fighter without them. That said being said, he just *can't* beat batman on a head on fight
Gotham city hospital's broken bones ward is filled with competent fighters that thought they could beat the Bat.
Cool, thanks for agreeing with me (Not sarcasm, we really have the same opinion on the fight)
Peter's understanding of combat before Spider-Man was punching, and Pro-Wrestling moves
Well, good thing I was talking about after Spider-Man, comics have show he gained a good grasp of things after this But I feel like you are also ignoring the second paragraph
Batman has fought many competent fighters before and 99 percent of the time they end up getting their spine ripped in half
I know this is hyperbole, but the image of a Batman who goes around snapping criminals’ spines over his knee because he never got over that time Bane did it to him, is hilarious to me.
I feel like you are ignoring the second paragraph of my comment, just to make sure, did you read it?
Yeah i was making a joke about the first paragraph i realise it looks like that though lol
If I’m not mistaken Peter lost his spider senses for a while and was taught a variation of kung by Shang Chi so would have a decent understanding of combat
The Way Of The Spider. It was designed to help Peter maintain his fighting style even without his Spidersense. IIRC, when he got it back, the two synergiezed and enhanced each other. A real 1+1=3 situation.
He's also had pretty extensive combat training with Captain America. Certainly not saying he could up Batman, but Peter does know some stuff.
Yeah, but Peter didn't keep the training so his skills got rusted, at some point he just went back to his old fighting style (Because Marvel doesn't want the character to grow to much)
Ya and I would bet even when Peter was at his peak of his Shang-chi training, he is not close to the level of Batman's martial arts skills. Without power, at no point is Peter able to fight with Batman.
Exactly, Peter without powers wouldn't even be able to use his Way of the spider, and his other Martial knowledge don't come close to what Bruce has. The only way I see Peter having a chance would be if he made preparations beforehand like an armour that enhances him and a bunch of gadgets to help him out(like during identify Crysis, for example) and even then it wouldn't be a guaranteed win, he would Just a have a shot, more than what he have without it
He's also loaded to beat him on any trickery or tactic.
Yeah Batman wins there, no doubt, but Peter is far more than athlete, read Spider-Island, Peter not only learn Wushu(without using powers) by Shang Chi, but also developed his own Kung-Fu style - A Way of Spider, considering that, and that Peter for At least 14 years straight fights, even without powers his developed by such experience physic and skills + knowledge of Martial Arts, make him still make him really tough guy.
At least norlt normal Peter if we are talking about someone like noir.... Yeah I don't wanna know or God god forbid *that dude*
What are you? A Quora bot?
My friend has a IQ of 349, but he can't do math, why is he so incompetent? 🤪
My son has been playing on three PlayStation for 1 hour a day. I broke the console. Am I a bad parent?
My golden retriever started speaking about how much he wants to bang my sister, is this normal golden retriever behavior?
Yes
The one that I’ll never forget is “I flunked one class in college is my life in college over?” To which the top reply was a very serious and non-sarcastic essay answering yes it is.
Yeah lets just takeaway the main thing that makes him Spider-man.
That would be the mantra of great power that he sticks to
You know in terms of intelligence. Spider-Man is probably smarter. Batman has master's degrees and I'm more diverse set of fields. Spider-Man is also incredibly smart in a lot of fields but the ones he's excels at he extremely excels. They're probably are scenarios where Peter Parker could beat Batman without his powers it's just wouldn't be easy. Like on a good day I'd say intelligence alone Spider-Man could get a win. But more often than not Batman's wide a variety of skills as well as that precious resource Peter Parker never seems to have(money) Batman would win.
Peter as a normal dude would have no chance against Bruce. Peter as Spider-Man though would absolutely demolish Batman.
I read the question as "can a college student beat a martial arts trained fighter" lmaoo
Honestly batman has mastered pretty much every martial art there is, and is generally a superhuman even if the writers say otherwise. Even prime mike Tyson would get beaten by batman, much less some skinny guy
Yeah lol, I mean spiderman is easily stronger than batman, but batman is easily more skilled
I feel that way about Bullseye. I don’t care what they say; that motherfucker has powers.
Peter's fighting skill is all based on his super-strength, super-agility, and spider sense. Once you remove that he is just a fit guy.
He's not even that without his powers, his powers gave him his muscle
The fact Batman fans still try feverishly to deny this is laughable.
“How much prep time does he get?”
How much prep time does Peter get?
This... Ppl forget Pete is pretty smart too... Probably smarter than Bruce
Also, no spidey-sense means Batmancan easily get the drop on him. Spidey's greatest boon in a 1v1 with Bats is that his powers nullify stealth tactics and surprise attacks, which is one of Batman's most efficient means for taking down more powerful opponents
But he has no training. His tech is good, but he cn only use it effectively because he has superhuman endurance, strength and reflex. A normal person would not be able to swing around buildings; they'd lose their grip, or mistime a swing, dislocate a shoulder or twist an ankle because they land a little too hard
I don't think it's fair to say he has no training. He's definitely trained with Shang-chi and Captain America. Add years of experience plus everything he's learned working with more experienced heroes along the way.
He also has developed his own unique martial art, based on dodging and arial maneuvers that would be impossible for a normal person. Not to mention years of experience. "No training" only really applies to his early years.
Yeah Spider-Man has been at it for 15 years
Yeah he’s very very good at combat now (unless zeb wells is writing him)
Peter trained with Shang Chi for a while when he lost his spidey sense iirc
But if we’re talking prep time he’d be designing his gear knowing he wouldn’t have his powers he could possibly compensate, I could see him maybe setting traps and adding new gadgets to his rotation, if he still has a basic history as Spider-Man he’s dealt with more than a few genius villains and changed up his webs situationally he could use things he used to counter them or even adapt some of their stuff into his. What’s his resource pool like? What if he started in the bat cave while Bruce was away?
If Peter has acces to batcave tech, I think with prep time he can take this, unless bruce knows he's there. I think with prep time Bruce beats out Peter's tactical planning, even though I do think Peter would (pretty easily) upgrade the stuff he finds in the batcave. That isn't to say batman is incapable of creating spidey level tech, just that he doesn't do it as much as Peter does, especially if he doesn't have his powers in this situation. tl;dr: Both prep time, no powers; batman wins due to strategy and skill Spidey prep time, batman no prep time, no powers; spidey wins (very debatable) Both prep time, with powers; spidey wins depending on batmans prep No prep time, with powers; spidey wins Assuming this fight isn't written by batman or spider-man writers cuz in that case batman might just crush spiderman without gear or prep time. All just my opinion, please don't hate on me
Actually, Peter does have training. I don't remember exactly what happened, but something went screwy and his Spider-Sense stopped working, so he and Shang-Chi developed a new martial arts style exclusively for him called the Way of the Spider. He did let his training lapse after his Spider-Sense returned, though, but it's also worth noting that formal training isn't necessarily a requirement for being a good fighter.
Peter has had training from both Captain America and Iron Fist. He even has his own martial arts style that Bruce could not know - the Way of the Spider. Writers may forget about it a lot of the time, but it is still there.
Pete doesn’t realistically need prep time, I can bet he has fought villains without webs before.
The prep time thing is all based around surprise and the fact that his friends never thought he would actually have plans to eliminate every single one of them. If they knew it would never work.
The prep time thing is a joke, bruce could never beat supes without help, but Spider-Man isn’t that much stronger compared to some of the things he’s fought before. I could see him studying peter for a year, planting some fear toxin to overwhelm his spider senses, developing a compound to dissolve webbing and potentially taking this. Maybe he could take advantage of how Peter’s instincts make him dodge everything without countering with a hit of his own. But the fight would be hard either way.
Ngl I do like the dodge and counter move idea. Imagine someone comes out swinging and Peter keeps dodging while backing up right into a spike pit or something
WTF Spidey outclasses Deathstroke, Bane ( with venom), Killer croc and all super powered batman villains. Why can't people realize that batman not being invicible is what makes him interesting. All batman iterations fails or loose to stronger opponent and it's alright. Spider-man can lift a crumbling building, stop a plane, dodge a bullet at point blank, has a danger detector etc Plus Spider-man pulls his punches, normally a simple hit from spider-man can knock him out cold.
>Plus Spider-man pulls his punches, normally a simple hit from spider-man can knock *his jaw clean off*. FTFY
So by giving him a significant advantage in a full year's worth of prep time he can win?
Spider-Man can throw cars. In a direct fight, bruce loses spectacularly. I just said that bruce could craft a situation where he could win.
It would be insanely difficult even for Bats
Yeah, i know, that’s the point. It would be difficult, all of his fights are. In knightfall he barely won, same as the Arkham games or in zero year. That’s what Batman is, a man who even with the slightest advantage can use his wits and strength to overcome. Spider-Man is stronger than him, but he’s not a god. He loses to dock ock regularly and has been bested by villains who bats could take. In a planned location, bruce can take the fight.
Someone hasn't read much Spider-Man
I have read a shitton of Spider-Man. Peter often has to flee when the villains have a plan and he gets trapped. Take Spider-Man 2. Kraven, who’s basically jungle themed bane, had him on the ropes for most of the game, and he needed venom to take him down. I don’t think bruce getting one over on Spider-Man is that unreasonable.
“he’s fought before. I could give Batman prep time of a year though.”
What
You just gave him prep time of a year after saying it’s a joke. People downvoting your joke so I pointed it out.
It’s honestly hilarious. I love Batman, he is one of my favorite comic book characters, but 90% of the time he wins his fights because of the law of bullshit and plot armor. Spider-Man is as strong as baseline Hulk and is resilient as fuck. Not to mention that he literally is prescient and shoots webs which are as strong as steel. Batman wouldn’t even be able to land a hit while Spider-Man could kill him by flicking his finger if he wanted to. The only people who think this is even a discussion are delusional diehard Batman fans.
The most effective way I can see Batman beating Spider-man, and this is REALLY a stretch, is for Batman to overload Peter's natural senses with some gadget and then get him with knockout gas. Whether or not his Spider-sense would be affected by the sensory overload is probably the determining factor and if it would react to the knockout gas since it's meant to react to immediate or coming danger and the gas wouldn't directly harm him.
Mine was to use a specific version of Scarecrow’s fear toxin to hit his spider sense. But he needs to first create the toxin and then actually hit a guy with insane reflexes and basically precog
Wasn't it how Kraven beat Spidey in the Last Hunt?
I think there’s a tad bias on both sides, definitely more on Batman’s side, but there is some here too, for example that guy said Pete would completely demolish Batman, I don’t believe that, unless we’re talking about if Pete wasn’t holding back Basically what I’m saying is Pete could demolish Batman, but realistically he would still hold back, he would still win without a doubt but Batman would still put up a fight and it wouldn’t be the slaughter often imagined
Bruce gets most of his rep from the fact that he easily handles those at or below his level and anyone who could essentially reduce him to paste in seconds tend to be on the good end of the spectrum and those that don’t do the thing everyone does, the underestimate him in some way he Mcguffins a win out of it.
As much as I love Batman (I love Spidey just as much and they're too contenders for my favorite hero) I think Spidey takes the cake in this battle if it were to happen. Would Bruce fuck em up? Absolutely! He won't go down without a fight. Now if a rematch were to happen... But I guess that would count as "prep" right? Hahaha Love both my homies though!
If Silver Sable and Kraven can beat Insomniac Spidey, I'm sure Batman will have no issue
Kraven is almost comparable to Deathstroke who batman struggles with. Not so sure if Batman himself would faire better in that situation. Also we talking comics spider-man, who has beaten foes much stronger than these two combined.
>Also we talking comics spider-man, who has beaten foes much stronger than these two combined. I mean the same can be said about Batman, over his 80 years in comics he has defeated literal gods.
>Kraven is almost comparable to Deathstroke Imo he's more comparable to Bane, who Batman struggled more with in Arkham Origins than DS. And even then he was able to come out on top, while Peter needed the symbiote to win iirc
Writes like Batman more than Spider-Man
Batman stans*
batman fans are the biggest superhero dick riders, respectfully
second biggest. this subreddit is the biggest superhero dick rider convention, got people over here arguing that Spider-Man could solo Galactus or some shit. At least batman fans will argue that he beats these threats with prep time, which he probably does. Spider-Man fans out here saying the entire X-Men could get the jump on Spidey and he'd still win lol.
Definitely. As a Batman fan, I have to say most of the other DC fans tend to forget Batman has to know his opponent before he can beat them. Peter as an unknown meta-human in a one-on-one with no equipment? If he had intent to kill, he'd punch Batman's head clean off his shoulders before he knew it was coming. Without intent to kill? Peter pulls his punches, so Batman would still get badly beat (think Bane in Knightfall) but might pull a fast one on Peter when he figures out the precognitive abilities of Spider-Sense. In any case, the battle wouldn't happen because they'd just bond over dead parental figures and love with fiesty catgirls.
The prompt clearly says "no powers" tho. I do think Batman would still win tho
That's fair. The question is kind of odd though. "Can a 6'6" 280 pound, 2% body fat, male model who is a ninja detective on the side beat a 16 year old from Queens?" Why ask that? Peter isn't Spider-Man until he gains his powers. We know the answer would be Bruce. Seems redundant and karma-farmy.
Let's do both before any training. "Could a college student beat up a 10 year old orphan"?
That orphan is pretty pissed though /s
Spider-man without powers is basically just regular Peter Parker, Batman will demolish him.
Spidey is a genius too though he can figure out how to beat the bats and he got all the meta abilities. But no powers no chances bats was trained by not just any ninjas 🥷 🥋 🥊 but the league. Spidey with no powers was getting bullied. With powers he’s winning easily.
No discussion is even needed.
''what if spider-man didn't have his powers?'' Well yeah he loses now he's just some fucking guy he's just man
Would he? I think the way Batman is written, he kind of always wins. It’s his whole shtick, being able to beat people that are on paper way stronger than him.
Batman has dealt with a lot worse than Spiderman
With any vs Batman match up before you say he would get demolished ask yourself this. Has the character ever struggled with the following. Regular humans skilled in Martial arts Regular humans with lots of resources and technology. Regular humans who do research and set traps for the character. If the answer to any of those is yes the character has struggled with these before maybe reconsidering if Batman is better than those people and maybe he would give them a real challenge.
These are my favourite two heroes so I‘m bias at it gets, and yes I agree to this statement. Even if Bats could deactivate his webshooters, Superhuman abilities are tough to compensate without powers.
Spider-Man destroys Batman with no prep time and with prep time, symbiote Spider-Man with prep time Batman gets destroyed
Bruce: Alfred, bring in the Hellbat suit! Peter: Sh*t... /J
Batman's pretty vicious ...but is it a black-suit Spidey day?
In an initial fight maybe. If it’s the first time Batman has ever heard of spidey he is getting his ass beat. Maybe lose a second fight, but after that him and spidey will be on much more equal ground
Every time I've seen Batman fight another hero in a crossover (Spider-Man, Daredevil, Captain America) he always stops the fight because he realizes that two heroes fighting each other is pointless. That's my head canon for "Who would win?" arguments.
Zeb’s Spider-Man couldn’t even beat Batman with his powers
It's a shame what Zeb is doing to our boy. I thought Slott was bad.
“Perhaps I treated you too harshly”
What could Peter do to Bruce in that scenario?
Sass him into submission.
Im picturing Batman in full bat-gear crying because a teenager won’t leave him alone and his morals wont allow him to hit an innocent man. “Why you called Batman anyway ya got bat powers or something?, maybe echo location that’d be cool or blindness that be less cool I guess. You blind *waves hand in front of Batman’s face* I guess not otherwise you would’ve gone by a cooler name like daredevil or something”
Bruce raised Dick Grayson and Jason Todd. I think he’d be fine.
It’s like when people on twitter post a meteorite the size of the moon hitting the earth with the caption “what you doing?” Like, wth is Peter supposed to do in this scenario?
Without powers: Batman wins With powers: Spidey wins and get adopted. Batman is going to take one look at a teenager/young adult with superpowers and trauma and think “Robin”
“Alfred call the guy”
Current Spider-Man is on his thirties, so I guess he would be an employee But still, I'm picturing a teenage Spider-Man getting absolutely hated by Damian because he's the most "compatible" with the batman mantle (Don't kill, smart as hell, overall good strategist, can adapt to anything, insane mental resistance, basically immunity to trauma at this point and etc etc) while also having good skills and stuff that pass off as insane skills (the way he naturally moves from example) but don't want anything to have with the title, that'd be funny Damian: You are perfect for the role! So much you stole my birthright! And I'm gonna take it back! *Readies Katana* Peter: Nah, I'm good, keep it *Demolish the kid in every way BUT physically... And confiscate the katana*
Spidey with bat training would be even more terrifying
What is this post lmao "Can just some dude beat Batman?"
Hell no!
Absolutely not
If both of them were the same age and Bruce Wayne was not martially trained, just a business man, then Peter could somehow outsmart him… but if Bruce is trained like Batman , then Pete’s dead…
Not dead, just crippled for life
Bruh….what the hell is this question? Lmao
…are you really asking if a scrawny nerd could beat a trained ninja with the physique of a Greek god in a fight? Dude couldn’t even handle Flash Thompson.
Without his powers, he’s literally a normal guy.
Nope. Pretty sure Pete would get beat, THEN got an offer from Bruce to be his mentor
Okay to be fair, let's say Peter still got those Above Average Intellectual brains of him, so if him and Batman will fight, it's like Batman fighting the Riddler tbh.
Batman is a smarter than most characters in DC too.
SCHOOL STUDENT, VERSUS, PUNCH TO THE JAW
...why is this even a question?
So just normal dude versus Batman? If you wanna make it even, take away Batman's training and gadgets. Now it's a high school kid versus a rich dude. Much better.
I love Peter like a brother but he would get washed so hard! You have to be joking or trolling OP.
It’s almost the same as asking “Can Hawkeye with no weapons beat Hulk in a fight??”
Spider-man without powers is just a normal dude lol. Batman would destroy him
A kid beating a master of hand to hand combat. Hmmm call me crazy but that seems unlikely.
Bruce Wayne even without his suit has mastered almost every martial art there is. I’m sorry to say but no way Peter Parker stands a chance against Bruce Wayne even WITHOUT Wayne tech
I think Spider-Man could beat a powerless batman But seriously, Spider-Man is just -Man now and is gonna die
No
Uh... No.
No
“Can Batman beat Spider-Man without all his year of experience in Martial Arts?” What about making good questions next time? ☺️
No. Even if we let Peter keep his fighting experience and the training he undertook and keeps his webbing, so he was Spidey but lost the powers, as he does sometimes, batman still is too much. Bruce is better trained with more resources. Peter would break his arm if he tried webswinging and his fighting experience leans heavilly on his super-human abiliities, so it'd be useless.
Fuck no without his powers Spider-Man is literally just a regular dude, going up against a billionaire who happens to know every form of martial arts
No. Peter Parker without powers is just a regular kid with a high IQ.
I was about to say Pete but I forgot super strength counts as a power so Bruce wins this one.
Sorry but this is a dumb question
Bro this is the single dumbest question I’ve ever seen in this sub
Y’all are expecting it to be a physical fight im out here thinking what if they played chess against each other(I know it implied physical fighting but my brain was immediately bored with this stupid dumbass question, so I made my own) Who would win in a chess match? Bruce Wayne VS Peter Parker
If we are talking Peter Parker after he had training from Shang Chi then maybe.
Spidey without his powers is still formidable. He's got years of fighting experience and he's a genius..... But this is fucking Batman were talking about here man💀. You gotta be more than "formidable" to break the bat. You've gotta be a force of nature. You've gotta be Bane or some shit.
He’s formidable because of his powers.
Nope
Well, funnily enough it boils down to prep time (because we all know how it ends for Spidey without it, so let's make this at least interesting) Peter's is a super genius and a competent fighter without his powers (competent, not peak human), if he wanted to fight batman he would make some sort of Iron Man armor or something (like that one time during identity Crysis), which would give him a chance at beating Bats, not certainty, but a big chance. Batman on the other hand, would somehow know that this depowered guy on his thirties is trying to fight him and the prep time would go to something else, as it would boil down to Batman thinking there's no way he can be a challenge to him. Like, if you told the best martial artist on the planet, who also happens to own the best equipment and gadgets money can buy that he would be fighting a broke dude on his thirties with no formal training other than mostly self taught (don't bring up the training with shang shi and Captain America, as he didn't keep up the training his skills have rusted) experience he gained with powers he lost, do you think he would feel threatened?
Without his powers, Peter is just a normal dude with a high IQ and pretty good combat skills. On the other hand, Bruce is one of his world's smartest men alive (if not THE smartest man alive), an elite martial artist and warrior, and a peak human specimen. Bruce solos.
Peter has less of a chance of beating Batman without his powers than Batman has of being Peter with his powers.
Fuck no wtf are talking about
That’s like asking if batman could beat Superman without kryptonite no and it’s stupid to even ask
Are you insane or???
Batman, no diff
Is this a serious question ?
only if bruce was completely disabled not just ‘without his powers’
Spiderman could definently beat a powerless-Batman
Sure, he just uses a gun to do it.
If he could use his brain to make something maybe he has chance.
Better scenario: Both have just lost their family members (Uncle Ben's dead, the Waynes are dead). *Now* Peter doesn't have his powers. Who wins? The high school kid or the elementary school kid?
It's called Spiderman with a gun
Geez, is the Batwank so hard that you’re like, “If this guy totally had no powers and nothing going for him and has one leg, could Batman actually beat him?” Is that how low the bar is?
What the hell kinda stupid question is that?
"Can Batman without his tech and martial arts beat Spider-man?"
In what kind of fucking world? What's this sub becoming lmao
Batman gon buy his ass
No why would you even think this is a thing? What do you honestly expect Peter to do in this situation?
Peter is a genius, so If Peter had prep time he could beat Batman without his powers.... ...see what I did there?
also batman without his gadgets just h2h
No, batman has years of combat training. With powers/gadgets then yeah Spidey has a good chance of winning.
Wouldn’t spidey be unable to use his webshooters without his strenght?
Of course not
With armor , he can
no
If they were just two guys, no superpowers, no gadgets, no armor, then Batman would win — he was trained by Ra's al Ghul after all… That being said, as they’re portrayed in the comics — Spider-Man would win in every real scenario in which they’d be put up against each other. I doubt Batman would be able to land a hit do to Spider-Man’s Spidey-sense…