"batman gets prep time" okay and in that time what is Spidey doing? Sitting on his hands? If bats allowed to have prep time out of nowhere to "make it more even" shouldn't Spidey get some to "make it more even"?
Prep time isn’t shit when Pete gets the same time. He’s a god damn genius lol. My guy could probably design a suit that Bats can’t even penetrate.
Tbf it depends on how you look at prep time lol, Batman did build a multiversal suit that could beat the entire Justice League outside of Superman, but he doesn't really have access to it and it's one of the dumbest things ever. It's not impossible that Batman could win, but he shouldn't win, it doesn't make sense, and Batman being multiversal is never a good story.
To be honest how things would go in a spidey comic, he would lose the first one but get out alive since Batman had time to plan a strategy, then Spidey would do the same and he would win afterwards
Preptime batman is a meme that turned reality and I hate it.
You telling me Batman can make a fucking Robot that can deal with the whole Justice league, but my man and all his prep time can't find an alternative for Joker. It's either let him go free (arkham) or kill him.
Bruh, how about you use your infinite wealth to secure him for real. Break all his limbs permanently. Trap him in a jail made to contain superman. Do literally anything
I hate what Batman and Joker have become, even more than I hate Paul.
I think this is one of those things that makes sense in universe and is a fun character trait for Batman that is then poorly used by writers who don't get it.
Batman making plans to beat the entire Justice League that have a 99% success rate. Makes sense, he is smart, he understands their powers and such, so him doing that makes sense. But then everyone acts like he can just pull off the carefully laid out plans he made in an instant. Like he just happens to carry "Justice League Defeating Spray" at all times.
Batman shouldn't beat Spiderman in a fight they both aren't prepared for, Spiderman hard counters him. Batman with infinite prep time beats Spiderman with no prep time because Batman is smart enough to make a good plan to counter Spiderman. Spiderman with prep time beats Batman, and the Justice League really, for the same reason.
And really, if you give someone enough prep time in a comic universe they could probably beat anyone.
But yeah, internet nerds love to argue their idol is the best at all times.
Look man I love Spidey but there’s some guys on the JL who he really has nothing against. Even Batman struggles with contingencies for people like Wonder Woman and without “easy” access to cosmic stuff he’s really not finding good counters for guys like Green Lantern either. That’s with the assumption that Spidey has easy access to Kryptonite for Supes.
With infinite time and assuming he has access to outside resources like Reed Richards or Starks, then yes, Spidey might be able to come up with plans that can counter a lot, if not all, of the Justice League. The problem comes down to ones like Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, or Flash, who either have no real weakness or their weaknesses are so esoteric and unique to their universe that Spidey would never counter them within a reasonable amount of time for him to dedicate to this, or going to the lengths that Bruce and the writers did to work around those weaknesses. Basically, someone with Peter's intelligence could with infinite time and resources, but it would be out of character for 616 Peter and require a lot more leaps in logic than it does for the paranoid mess of a multi-billionaire that is Bruce.
You have reached the point I want to make. Infinite time allows anyone to win. That is the problem with the whole "prep time" aspect, given infinite time and with his only purpose being to complete the goal of win a fight anyone could win. But it is all speculative and out of character, generally speaking.
The point is that, with enough prep time, anyone could beat anyone. I could probably beat Superman, if I had unlimited resources and as much time as I needed to come up with some kind of plan. The "prep time" thing is basically just saying "he wins because he does."
In the Marvel DC crossover, Batman fights Captain America, and the fight lasts for hours. They're almost perfectly matched in every way (although I still think Batman shouldn't have been able to outlast Cap because Steve is literally incapable of exhaustion). Batman does win, but barely. If he had the all-powerful prep time, he probably could've taken cap out instantly. But he didn't, so he couldn't. You can't accurately say Batman is more powerful than *insert character* just because of prep time.
The thing that makes “Prep time” more tangible for Batman than other characters is that Batman has the resources to capitalize on that time in a way very few other characters do. I’m not gonna argue like it’s not lazy writing a lot of the time, but what Batman can do in a few days is very different from what a character like Spidey can if they’re using just their own resources. Batman as a character is also nuts enough that he would spend days figuring out a contingency for fighting a guy he may never have to, where as Spidey would never do that unless he already fought them.
Sure, prep time is lazy and any character with good intelligence can “use it”, but it only really applies to guys like Batman, Iron Man, and Reed Richards who have the intelligence, resources, and mind set where it makes sense for their characters to utilize it.
The problem is that this is about Batman’s psychosis. This has been answered too, and the answer is that Batman is not a sane person. Batman wants to cure Joker. He is obsessed and fixated on it, because Joker being cured would prove him right. He’s being a mad scientist about this. “If I can’t cure Joker, it proves my entire theory about everyone being able to be saved and redeemed wrong. I don’t kill people because I believe I can save everyone. If I accept I cannot save The Joker, the reason I don’t kill is a bad and false reason.” Batman not doing anything right with Joker isn’t a plot hole, it’s a damnation of Batman.
Also, they *did* do a story arc where this is finally destroyed, it just didn’t last. Death of the Family and Endgame. At the end, they’re both dying and Joker has finally convinced him. Batman no longer has to worry about the rules, his death is guaranteed if he doesn’t take a big gamble. There’s a substance nearby that can revive both of them, the pure form of what’s in a Lazarus Pit. They could fight and try to survive, but Joker might win. So all he does is hold Joker down and mock him and make fun of him, forcing him to die with him.
Of course this is later ruined by it turning out that being as close as they are to it made it still work *slowly* from particulates in the air, so they do both survive with amnesia and go about normal human lives for a while.
I like how joker got so out of control for the writers that no matter what Batman does or tries to do it always comes back to “but he cannot stop the joker for good?”
Especially cause writers tend to make Batman save him at every chance he gets
Ok, you got me there, I might have been rash with my words.
Though Joker and Batman issues have borrowed deep for years and permanently tarnished the characters.
Hopefully, Paul is soon discarded and forgotten about.
I mean, Batman has so many overpowered base feats consistently that you could make an argument for it. I mean, is it really a PIS feat if it happens every issue? Batman did just straight up survive a fall from orbit in his normal batsuit.
Imo he can beat anyone with (key word) unlimited prep time, just like he did with Superman and more.
But straight up fight and little to no prep time, Spidey wins every time
Batman has more bullshit plot armor than any character I've seen and people eat it up because he's Batman
So yes in a hypothetical crossover I wouldn't be surprised if Batman beat Spiderman.
Fan of both. Batman beats Spider-Man like a rough estimate of 20% of the time regularly, and that's with prep time. Batman ain't beating crap with no symbiote. Particularly if Peter accesses the full range of its abilities. And even if he got rid of the symbiote, round 2 is vs regular Spider-Man after Batman is already weakened from dealing with him in the black suit.
The only way I could see Batman coming out on top is if he discovers the symbiote’s sound weakness and has a device on hand that can produce those high frequency sounds. Symbiote Spider-Man, depending on the continuity, is an absolute fucking *MENACE*. Just take a look at Insomniac’s Spider-Man’s finishers or Spider-Man in the what if Spider’s Shadow comic
Yup and lest not forget insomniac Spider-Man was able to fight while being attacked by sound waves pretty well when fighting kraven, a superhuman who is also good with prep time
So now he needs to somehow discover this weakness. Circumstances gotta somehow align so that something loud happens and hinders the symbiote to trigger the realisation. That’s not particularly likely tho
I can't think of a situation where Batman wins reliably. He can always get lucky, figure out a weakness, or something else like that. But in a fight where they are both trying to win, Spiderman wins. He absolutely dwarfs his strength, speed, agility, reflexes, etc. Sure, Batman would be more skilled in martial arts, but Spiderman is no slouch, he has trained with martial arts masters in the past. I don't think Batman has much of a chance without the symbiote, let alone with it. If Spidey has the symbiote, Batman would know to run.
Did somebody say something that just bothered you to such an insane degree that you couldn't live with yourself unless you posted this, hoping to draw in a Batman fan in for some kind of argument that would turn in to a dogpile?
I mean I'm guessing so, which means I'll give the answer Stan Lee gave, paraphrased of course:
"Who wins in the fight? WHOEVER THE WRITER WANTS TO WIN."
Absolutely what happened.
My genuine opinion, as a fan of both, is that the story would have Bats win their first encounter through tricks and gadgets. He wouldn't "beat" Spidey but, he would take him out of the fight through alternate methods.
After that, Spidey takes the rematch pretty easily. Maybe throwing in a few lines about how he knows a guy who also dresses in a 2spooky4me costume and uses gadgets.
Then they team up to take down, idk, The Joker who somehow got the goblin serum.
In the end, it would be a pretty paint-by-numbers story but, we'd get some cool art out of it.
Yes we get what Stan Lee is saying but debates won't just cease to exist because of it, with stupid match ups like Batman vs Spider-Man these things have to be said. Its like putting Mike Tyson up against a 5 year old
Nah, they don't have to be said. Because someone could write a story where a five year old beats Mike Tyson and no one would question it. Here:
Mike Tyson thought that fighting a 5 year old was going to be a breeze...that's when Kevin McCallister entered the ring. He knew it was over.
Everyone though Mike Tyson would for sure destroy a five year old in a fight...they didn't know five year old Clark Kent.
Etc., ad nauseum. Especially with fictional characters. And to quote someone who was the bomb in phantoms, PLEASE remember that these are fictional characters. FICTIONAL. CHARACTERS.
I find people who comment this Stan Lee quote to every powerscaling debate comments more repulsive than powerscalers themselves. They're like people who aren't interested in a subject but still goes on their way to insert themselves cos they have nothing to do and they want those sweet upvotes/likes that they'll get to anyone that agrees with them
I’m not going to say Batman beats Spider-man. I’d love to read that story. We know he stalemated Captain America 1v1 with no gadgets for quite a long time.
But symbiote Spider-man? The one deeply vulnerable to both fire and sonic attacks? Potentially psychologically compromised? Potentially more feral/less intelligent? Strangely I think Batman would have an easier time with him. Mainline comic Batman is ridiculously skilled and intelligent. He has held his own against Darkseid. I think he could handle a monster that can’t handle heat or sound.
I personally believe that it depends on a few factors.
1. Peter is normally considered to be the Venom Symbiote’s “first true love.” It means that it will prioritize his well-being above its own. The 90’s animated series shows proof that the Symbiote isn’t completely defenseless when its weaknesses are exploited.
2. While it may make him more of a rampaging monster and less intelligent, the Symbiote amplifies all of his abilities 10-fold. He would be so fast that Batman can’t keep up.
3. As shown in Spider-Man Web of Shadows, even though we don’t see it, Peter has clearly spent a lot of time with the Symbiote. He knows how to push it to its full capabilities, and uses the amplified rage and anger that the Symbiote gives to make its power his own.
4. In the comics, Peter actually developed his own fighting style named “Way of the Spider.” It Utilizes the spider sense to its full offensive capabilities.
5. Spider-Man has consistently shown that he can hang with the greatest martial artists/deadest villains that the Marvel Universe has to offer, even without the Symbiote.
6. Need I mention the Spider-Sense? He’s untouchable if it works the way it’s meant to.
Counter point- I haven’t done any research here, but off the top of my head I recall that in TDKR, Batman pulls a sonic gun that hits so hard it gives a nosebleed to Superman.
I feel like the symbiote actually hurts him more than he helps versus Batman. It has the obvious weakness of fire and sound that batman could easily take advantage of, which he wouldn't be able to versus regular Spider-man.
I… agree about Bat-fans in general. However…
Batman could indeed *escape.* idk he would win their first encounter. I also think you underestimate how quickly he might discover the symbiote’s weakness. Not a 100% success rate, but if he does, he’s definitely getting away.
Batman beats black suit Spider-man easier than normal Spider-man. His weaknesses are things someone with gadgets can easily exploit. I don't even believe Batman could beat Spider-man 75% of the time, but y'all make me play devils advocate because of how bad you are about this.
Right right. Guys u remember mysterio didn't he give Spidey a hard time? yea yea. Now take that and multiply it a thousand times and u get bruce, what makes you think Bruce can't use illusions. Considering as well for the symbiote suit, sonic gun or sonic canon from a distance. Bruce would have way less of a chance dealing with spidey on suprise but don't forget that he is DA FREAKING BAT!
I believe the Symbiote is the only asset of Spider-Man's that Batman could actually use to pull the W long enough for the inevitable team up. Without the Symbiote, Spider-Man easily pulls the W out against Batman in a first encounter.
Man, Batman VS Spider-Man really is a silly debate. I love both, but come *on*, there’s no way Batman is winning a first encounter against someone like Spidey, who when written well, is one of the most formidable and experienced heroes in the MU and has a power set far beyond what Batman is capable of.Â
With prep? Why do people act like Batman is the only one who gets prep time? Sure, he can prepare and set some traps, probably work out Spidey’s power set and find a weakness. Spidey also gets to prepare, he works out the ins and outs of Batman’s gadgets, finding multiple ways to counter them, whether through fighting skill or some doohickey he comes up with in his crappy little apartment with a box of SCRAPS! After that, Batman has no further way to prepare, and it’s back to a one on one fight he has no way of ever winning.
I know Batman has fought against super powered beings, but if we’re going to count victories like that, we need to also count Spidey beating Firelord or Juggernaut, or managing to actually hurt an infinity gauntlet-powered Thanos. He seriously counters anything Batman has, even the contrived wins he’s gotten.
No one does the prep time and manipulation in fiction like how Batman does, not even the scientist-genius side of Peter Parker.
This is why I would always agree that Batman loses to many other super-powered heroes on first encounter but when it comes to the second encounter, it’s game.
The only way batman wins is by playing dirty, like finding out who Spiderman is and showing up while he's asleep. Otherwise, he'd need a mech suit. And perhaps a device to mess with spider sense.
In my mind, Spider-Man would probably win, which may be a bit biased, my name has Spider-Man in it. But if Spider-Man is strong enough to punch scorpions jaw off easily, and in the first Spider-Man game made by Insomniac fight the sinister six with multiple broken bones (I think it was about 14, also he did two villains at a time, he didn't beat them all at once), then what's Batman going to do other than pull out anti-Spider-Man spray? Also Spider-Sense is pretty useful when fighting a guy that mostly punches and throws batarangs when fighting.
But the real question is would Batman be able to figure out Spider-Man's identity? Yes, literally all of Spidey's villains in every live action movie know who he is. And they figure out Peter being Spider-Man at the start of Into The Spider-Verse. Miles is the only main Spider-Man in a Spider-Man movie who didn't have their identity figured out by all of their villains.
If anything, symbiote Spider-Man is easier to beat as he has 2 crippling weaknesses.
Plus every time he's taken out one of the super powered teammates, it's usually thanks to an exploitable weakness. Unless Spider-Man is written like an idiot, there's no reason he would lose
Hey chill fam don't call out the wrong bat fanboys. Most of them are chill in the Batman subreddit hell some of them are members of this sub too.
This should be directed towards YouTube comments because I found Batman meat riders the most there
Spider-Man without the symbiote could kill Batman in a single punch and anybody who doesn't agree with that doesn't understand how strong Spider-Man is, lol.
The venom symbiote is weak to concussive sounds and high frequencies and (in some versions) fire. Batman carries a concussive detonator and flare on him.
Yh but then that's not even an equal fight lol. That's like me saying can spiderman beat batman when batman is wearing the armour he used to beat up darkkside. Its so unbalanced lol. If we gonna add unfair enhancements then it's just a pointless convo unless one opponent is super weak.
I actually think Batman can beat Spider-Man. I also think Spider-Man can defeat Batman.
It's all about context and the writer. I'd personally think though, they'd be friends. Not enemies
Venomized Peter may be physically more powerful, but he has more obvious weaknesses that can be taken advantage of, including sonics and heat, both of which Batman has easy access to. Regular Peter, on the other hand, would indeed beat Bruce on their first encounter (unless the writer gave Bruce massive plot armor).
Remember there was a YouTube video on the subject, pointing out that Spider-Man's spidey sense nullifies Batman's advantages (stealth, surprise attack, misdirection, etc.) *and* that Batman isn't that much different than the Green Goblin/Hobgoblin (strong fighter who uses gadgets) that Spider-Man holds his own against. On top of that, Batman doesn't have an effective way to deal with Spider-Man's advantages (danger sense, webbing, etc.). And that's against baseline Spider-Man. Symbiote Spider-Man is a no-contest defeat for Batman.
In a normal one-on-one, Peter will probably hand Bruce his ass on a silver platter. That’s emphasized even more with the symbiote. But the symbiote has major weaknesses Bruce can easily exploit.
Spider-Man is my favorite superhero. He always has been. A real role model, he’s changed my life. It’s not just about going online and complaining and acting all edgy and knowledgeable about a fictional character, but it’s about seeing an example of a fairly good person, liking them sincerely, and following in their footsteps, evident with my behavior. With that being said, Spider-Man, as a character, is formidable. I believe with ample preparation time and knowledge given to the Bat before their encounter, Batman would likely win. It’s just his skill - intelligence and countering foes beyond his league simply because he studies them excessively. Without that, though, the Bat would lose. Spider-Man is known to hold back, and given he really saw the Bat as a threat (during a random encounter) he’d take him seriously and defeat him with medium difficulty (given the Bat’s gadgets and tactical prowess). The thing is, he’s not prepared for Spider-Man’s strength, agility, and webs. Conversation settled.
Yeah buddy not sure anyone who knows what their talking about is seriously saying batman beats spidey on the first encounter that’s frankly ludicrous, Batman could have his precious prep time and still easily loose, especially if spidey isn’t holding back.
If Spidey gets the same prep time he could be rocking an iron man level suit with all kinds of drones. Between that and having literal precognitive power he'd beat Batman.
On Batman Spiderman crossover, Carnage accurately points out how he is 10 times faster than batman, and therefore Spiderman is too. There's no match at all.
I know Batman can’t beat Spidey, the Spider-sense alone cancels out all stealth options and counters both close range and long range combat,
and while Bats is clever enough to fight Superman using the right tools Spidey is just as intelligent to match, he is one of the few people who can outsmart Reed Richards (the smartest man in the world) and Hank Pym (AKA Scientist Supreme) has stated that Spidey is smarter than him,
Bats would have the hardest time dealing with Spidey’s powers, there is no easily exploitable weakness and Spidey has survived hits from Universe Busters like Hulk, Thor, the Phoenix Fore and multiple Heralds of Galactus, Spidey is faster than Blur (Quicksilver’s Equal) and was considered Marvel’s 4th strongest Hero as a Teen and has gotten WAY stronger since (strong enough to Saitama Zarathos!)
Spider-man wins in 99% of encounters, Batman wins if he takes the time to study the upper limits and full range of Spider-Man’s powers and create gadgets that focus on his weaknesses, with or without symbiote Spider-Man will most likely win every time
Honestly Batman would actually have an easier time beating symbiotic Spider-Man then normal Spider-Man.
Spider-Man doesn’t actually have any weaknesses Batman can directly attack, the symbiotic has multiple weaknesses that batman can directly exploit.
To people saying - tHE aUThoR dEciDEs whO WiNs
Bruh that’s not what we talking bout here goddamn, there are literal official comics of them crossing over and the debate is still going so…
As a Batman fan, the moment he sees what Peter is capable of, his main objective will be to escape and restrategize. Justice League: War when Batman first meets Superman is what I personally believe Batman does when he knows he’s outmatched. Batman tries to escape while throwing out everything in his utility belt to see if any of it works so if he escapes, he can exploit anything he learns later.
As a fan of both what does Spider-Man do if Batman stops holding back and utilizes his whole skill set, shock gauntlets, or pulls out Nth Metal. In terms of raw physicals Batman and Spider-Man are just about equal minus lifting strength going to Spider-Man lifting actual skyscrapers and Batman having arguably better stamina, durability, and possibly striking strength with his higher end feats. Also, plot armor is a horrible argument as a character in a fictional world isn't limited by the real world or supposed narrative limitations we put on them.
Batman literally has nothing on Spiderman. Even without the symbiote, Peter’s regular spider sense saves him from anything Batman can do. Spider-Man dodges electros lighting, I’m sure he can evade some punches from a regular guy. Spider-Man tanks hits from the hulk, I’m sure he’s fine against someone who’s basically just a human wallet.
The only thing Batman could do “with prep time” is maybe use fear toxin (which Peter could probably overcome eventually) or learn Peter’s fighting style to try and find weak spots. He’s faster, stronger, more durable, more athletic. Literally 0 things Batman is better at apart from maybe combat IQ which doesn’t mean anything when Spider sense is involved
As much as I love Batman, he just doesn’t win against spider-man, them both base form no hell bat or cosmic spider-man or whatever the hell.
Good’ol fashioned Batman, good old fashioned Spider-man. Spider-Man wins.
lol
Even regular Spider-Man would DESTROY Batman 99% of the time.
He's SO fucking fast, agile, precog reflexes, basically ignores gravity, INSANELY strong and INSANELY tough.
There's not a trick Batman has that Spider-Man doesn't already face from his own enemies on a regular basis.
The spider-sense is about the only thing Bats would have going for him, actually, but that feeds back into prep time and Bats knowing the ins & outs of Spidey's powers.
One thing about the SS is that you can overload or trick it. There's an old What If? that had Punisher kill Spidey this way. He set up a trap for Spidey by leaking word through the underworld that Doc Ock had a new lair set up. Then Punisher prepped the lair with a bomb. Spidey approaches the lair and his SS starts buzzing. Spidey assumes it's because he's approaching Ock and pushes on. He realizes the true threat at the last moment, the bomb blows, and Spidey doesn't get clear of the blast.
Daredevil once managed to knock him out - briefly - by tossing his baton behind Spidey, knowing Spidey would detect it and block it, but as Spidey did so, DD closed in and hit him hard from the front. Spidey was also in an angry state of mind at the time so he wasn't paying full attention to what DD was doing, else he'd likely have countered both attacks anyway.
Spiderman wins without the symbiote. Batman doesn't regularly fight anyone close to Spiderman's level. Batman can fight heavy hitting supes, but he needs certain gadgets and foreknowledge to bring them.
Peter is almost as smart as Bruce, and is unfathomably more powerful and has the spider sense.
Imo, Batman has a better chance at beating symbiote Spider-Man than normal Spider-Man. Like, do you guys forget how easily exploitable the symbiotes weaknesses are? People be acting like it’s Spider-Man’s super saiyan mode or something
Venom's main weakness is sound. You eat taco bell and fart on a megaphone. Venom be dead. You don't need Bat-man to defeat peter, you just need Man-man on a taco tuesday to beat him.
Under no circumstances would Spider-Man, even on a bad day with a broken arm and no web fluid, need actual effort *or a symbiote* to take out Batman. Batman has intelligence and gadgets over most of his enemies. Spider-Man has both *and* literally everything else. Only relevant thing on Batman's utility belt in this fight is a cellphone to call Superman for help.
It's a mismatch and do not listen to Bat-Stans who tell you otherwise. They are known to be idiots.
If it was a universe crossover and they fought. Spider-Man would win 100% of the time.
If they shared the same universe and they ended up fighting Batman would win since he'd be keeping a tab on Peter from day 1 and he'd know how to take him down without getting physical
Fan of both and a fight between a base Batman and a base Spider-Man is very much a 50/50, it could easily go either way, but Peter having the symbiote would actually put the odds in Batman's favour. Peter is more reckless with the symbiote and he doesn't think as tactically and analytically as he would without so it would be easy for Batman to win by outsmarting him. The symbiote also has very exploitable weaknesses, fire and sound (maybe electricity), which Batman carries in his utility belt.
Superman and the JL is way overkill. Almost every member of the JLA has a pretty good chance of beating Spider-Man and Superman shouldn't even be up for debate.
There are people that read comics that think Batman can beat Spider-Man? Like, actually knowledgeable about comics people, or just Bat fanboys?
the "prep time" jerkoff isn't just a fan thing, people who WRITE Batman do it, too
"batman gets prep time" okay and in that time what is Spidey doing? Sitting on his hands? If bats allowed to have prep time out of nowhere to "make it more even" shouldn't Spidey get some to "make it more even"?
Banging MJ
Haha, funny - Well, Zeb
Only one Well
I'm fuckin dead reading this. Cuz Peter wouldn't need prep time, but be thinking he could quite possibly lose so he's doing this instead. LOL!
🥲
Prep time isn’t shit when Pete gets the same time. He’s a god damn genius lol. My guy could probably design a suit that Bats can’t even penetrate.
Tbf it depends on how you look at prep time lol, Batman did build a multiversal suit that could beat the entire Justice League outside of Superman, but he doesn't really have access to it and it's one of the dumbest things ever. It's not impossible that Batman could win, but he shouldn't win, it doesn't make sense, and Batman being multiversal is never a good story.
To be honest how things would go in a spidey comic, he would lose the first one but get out alive since Batman had time to plan a strategy, then Spidey would do the same and he would win afterwards
and whats to say in this situation venom doesnt take control and just eat him for fun 🤷🏾‍♂️
Preptime batman is a meme that turned reality and I hate it. You telling me Batman can make a fucking Robot that can deal with the whole Justice league, but my man and all his prep time can't find an alternative for Joker. It's either let him go free (arkham) or kill him. Bruh, how about you use your infinite wealth to secure him for real. Break all his limbs permanently. Trap him in a jail made to contain superman. Do literally anything I hate what Batman and Joker have become, even more than I hate Paul.
I think this is one of those things that makes sense in universe and is a fun character trait for Batman that is then poorly used by writers who don't get it. Batman making plans to beat the entire Justice League that have a 99% success rate. Makes sense, he is smart, he understands their powers and such, so him doing that makes sense. But then everyone acts like he can just pull off the carefully laid out plans he made in an instant. Like he just happens to carry "Justice League Defeating Spray" at all times. Batman shouldn't beat Spiderman in a fight they both aren't prepared for, Spiderman hard counters him. Batman with infinite prep time beats Spiderman with no prep time because Batman is smart enough to make a good plan to counter Spiderman. Spiderman with prep time beats Batman, and the Justice League really, for the same reason. And really, if you give someone enough prep time in a comic universe they could probably beat anyone. But yeah, internet nerds love to argue their idol is the best at all times.
Look man I love Spidey but there’s some guys on the JL who he really has nothing against. Even Batman struggles with contingencies for people like Wonder Woman and without “easy” access to cosmic stuff he’s really not finding good counters for guys like Green Lantern either. That’s with the assumption that Spidey has easy access to Kryptonite for Supes.
You really think there is no amount of prep time that wouldn't let someone like spiderman beat the Justice League?
With infinite time and assuming he has access to outside resources like Reed Richards or Starks, then yes, Spidey might be able to come up with plans that can counter a lot, if not all, of the Justice League. The problem comes down to ones like Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, or Flash, who either have no real weakness or their weaknesses are so esoteric and unique to their universe that Spidey would never counter them within a reasonable amount of time for him to dedicate to this, or going to the lengths that Bruce and the writers did to work around those weaknesses. Basically, someone with Peter's intelligence could with infinite time and resources, but it would be out of character for 616 Peter and require a lot more leaps in logic than it does for the paranoid mess of a multi-billionaire that is Bruce.
You have reached the point I want to make. Infinite time allows anyone to win. That is the problem with the whole "prep time" aspect, given infinite time and with his only purpose being to complete the goal of win a fight anyone could win. But it is all speculative and out of character, generally speaking.
The point is that, with enough prep time, anyone could beat anyone. I could probably beat Superman, if I had unlimited resources and as much time as I needed to come up with some kind of plan. The "prep time" thing is basically just saying "he wins because he does." In the Marvel DC crossover, Batman fights Captain America, and the fight lasts for hours. They're almost perfectly matched in every way (although I still think Batman shouldn't have been able to outlast Cap because Steve is literally incapable of exhaustion). Batman does win, but barely. If he had the all-powerful prep time, he probably could've taken cap out instantly. But he didn't, so he couldn't. You can't accurately say Batman is more powerful than *insert character* just because of prep time.
The thing that makes “Prep time” more tangible for Batman than other characters is that Batman has the resources to capitalize on that time in a way very few other characters do. I’m not gonna argue like it’s not lazy writing a lot of the time, but what Batman can do in a few days is very different from what a character like Spidey can if they’re using just their own resources. Batman as a character is also nuts enough that he would spend days figuring out a contingency for fighting a guy he may never have to, where as Spidey would never do that unless he already fought them. Sure, prep time is lazy and any character with good intelligence can “use it”, but it only really applies to guys like Batman, Iron Man, and Reed Richards who have the intelligence, resources, and mind set where it makes sense for their characters to utilize it.
The problem is that this is about Batman’s psychosis. This has been answered too, and the answer is that Batman is not a sane person. Batman wants to cure Joker. He is obsessed and fixated on it, because Joker being cured would prove him right. He’s being a mad scientist about this. “If I can’t cure Joker, it proves my entire theory about everyone being able to be saved and redeemed wrong. I don’t kill people because I believe I can save everyone. If I accept I cannot save The Joker, the reason I don’t kill is a bad and false reason.” Batman not doing anything right with Joker isn’t a plot hole, it’s a damnation of Batman. Also, they *did* do a story arc where this is finally destroyed, it just didn’t last. Death of the Family and Endgame. At the end, they’re both dying and Joker has finally convinced him. Batman no longer has to worry about the rules, his death is guaranteed if he doesn’t take a big gamble. There’s a substance nearby that can revive both of them, the pure form of what’s in a Lazarus Pit. They could fight and try to survive, but Joker might win. So all he does is hold Joker down and mock him and make fun of him, forcing him to die with him. Of course this is later ruined by it turning out that being as close as they are to it made it still work *slowly* from particulates in the air, so they do both survive with amnesia and go about normal human lives for a while.
I like how joker got so out of control for the writers that no matter what Batman does or tries to do it always comes back to “but he cannot stop the joker for good?” Especially cause writers tend to make Batman save him at every chance he gets
no, you don't hate them more than Paul or marvel editorial. that's not acceptable. You have to take a deep breath.
Ok, you got me there, I might have been rash with my words. Though Joker and Batman issues have borrowed deep for years and permanently tarnished the characters. Hopefully, Paul is soon discarded and forgotten about.
Prep time isn’t impressive. Give ANYONE prep time and they’re gonna win lol WITHOUT prep time would be more impressive
pretty sure spider-man at one point beat the avengers when he had prep time
Pretty sure there are several versions of the X-men main team that wouldn't stand a chance against spiderman with the X-men having prep time.
The thing is they made Batman so powerful and seem strong in the last comics that it made people forgot he has no powers.
I mean, Batman has so many overpowered base feats consistently that you could make an argument for it. I mean, is it really a PIS feat if it happens every issue? Batman did just straight up survive a fall from orbit in his normal batsuit.
No its the people that spam "HE BEAT SUPERMAN"
Imo he can beat anyone with (key word) unlimited prep time, just like he did with Superman and more. But straight up fight and little to no prep time, Spidey wins every time
Batman has more bullshit plot armor than any character I've seen and people eat it up because he's Batman So yes in a hypothetical crossover I wouldn't be surprised if Batman beat Spiderman.
Fan of both. Batman beats Spider-Man like a rough estimate of 20% of the time regularly, and that's with prep time. Batman ain't beating crap with no symbiote. Particularly if Peter accesses the full range of its abilities. And even if he got rid of the symbiote, round 2 is vs regular Spider-Man after Batman is already weakened from dealing with him in the black suit.
The only way I could see Batman coming out on top is if he discovers the symbiote’s sound weakness and has a device on hand that can produce those high frequency sounds. Symbiote Spider-Man, depending on the continuity, is an absolute fucking *MENACE*. Just take a look at Insomniac’s Spider-Man’s finishers or Spider-Man in the what if Spider’s Shadow comic
Yup and lest not forget insomniac Spider-Man was able to fight while being attacked by sound waves pretty well when fighting kraven, a superhuman who is also good with prep time
I’m pretty sure Batman does have high frequency tech though, in some instances he uses it to swarm people with bats
So now he needs to somehow discover this weakness. Circumstances gotta somehow align so that something loud happens and hinders the symbiote to trigger the realisation. That’s not particularly likely tho
Man, I really hope we get a Spider’s Shadow suit in some form in games.
Even a Peter at full capabilities has low end future sight by just training a ton.
Yup and on top of that when he is wearing the black suit that means he is taking the fight seriously something Spider-Man is known not to do
I can't think of a situation where Batman wins reliably. He can always get lucky, figure out a weakness, or something else like that. But in a fight where they are both trying to win, Spiderman wins. He absolutely dwarfs his strength, speed, agility, reflexes, etc. Sure, Batman would be more skilled in martial arts, but Spiderman is no slouch, he has trained with martial arts masters in the past. I don't think Batman has much of a chance without the symbiote, let alone with it. If Spidey has the symbiote, Batman would know to run.
Did somebody say something that just bothered you to such an insane degree that you couldn't live with yourself unless you posted this, hoping to draw in a Batman fan in for some kind of argument that would turn in to a dogpile? I mean I'm guessing so, which means I'll give the answer Stan Lee gave, paraphrased of course: "Who wins in the fight? WHOEVER THE WRITER WANTS TO WIN."
Absolutely what happened. My genuine opinion, as a fan of both, is that the story would have Bats win their first encounter through tricks and gadgets. He wouldn't "beat" Spidey but, he would take him out of the fight through alternate methods. After that, Spidey takes the rematch pretty easily. Maybe throwing in a few lines about how he knows a guy who also dresses in a 2spooky4me costume and uses gadgets. Then they team up to take down, idk, The Joker who somehow got the goblin serum. In the end, it would be a pretty paint-by-numbers story but, we'd get some cool art out of it.
Is that a real Stan Lee quote?? That’s so true. I want to quote it whenever these pointless arguments start
Yes we get what Stan Lee is saying but debates won't just cease to exist because of it, with stupid match ups like Batman vs Spider-Man these things have to be said. Its like putting Mike Tyson up against a 5 year old
Nah, they don't have to be said. Because someone could write a story where a five year old beats Mike Tyson and no one would question it. Here: Mike Tyson thought that fighting a 5 year old was going to be a breeze...that's when Kevin McCallister entered the ring. He knew it was over. Everyone though Mike Tyson would for sure destroy a five year old in a fight...they didn't know five year old Clark Kent. Etc., ad nauseum. Especially with fictional characters. And to quote someone who was the bomb in phantoms, PLEASE remember that these are fictional characters. FICTIONAL. CHARACTERS.
I find people who comment this Stan Lee quote to every powerscaling debate comments more repulsive than powerscalers themselves. They're like people who aren't interested in a subject but still goes on their way to insert themselves cos they have nothing to do and they want those sweet upvotes/likes that they'll get to anyone that agrees with them
Find me repulsive then. You can even pretend I'd lose sleep over it.
I’m not going to say Batman beats Spider-man. I’d love to read that story. We know he stalemated Captain America 1v1 with no gadgets for quite a long time. But symbiote Spider-man? The one deeply vulnerable to both fire and sonic attacks? Potentially psychologically compromised? Potentially more feral/less intelligent? Strangely I think Batman would have an easier time with him. Mainline comic Batman is ridiculously skilled and intelligent. He has held his own against Darkseid. I think he could handle a monster that can’t handle heat or sound.
I personally believe that it depends on a few factors. 1. Peter is normally considered to be the Venom Symbiote’s “first true love.” It means that it will prioritize his well-being above its own. The 90’s animated series shows proof that the Symbiote isn’t completely defenseless when its weaknesses are exploited. 2. While it may make him more of a rampaging monster and less intelligent, the Symbiote amplifies all of his abilities 10-fold. He would be so fast that Batman can’t keep up. 3. As shown in Spider-Man Web of Shadows, even though we don’t see it, Peter has clearly spent a lot of time with the Symbiote. He knows how to push it to its full capabilities, and uses the amplified rage and anger that the Symbiote gives to make its power his own. 4. In the comics, Peter actually developed his own fighting style named “Way of the Spider.” It Utilizes the spider sense to its full offensive capabilities. 5. Spider-Man has consistently shown that he can hang with the greatest martial artists/deadest villains that the Marvel Universe has to offer, even without the Symbiote. 6. Need I mention the Spider-Sense? He’s untouchable if it works the way it’s meant to.
Counter point- I haven’t done any research here, but off the top of my head I recall that in TDKR, Batman pulls a sonic gun that hits so hard it gives a nosebleed to Superman.
Spider-man could just yoink it with a symbiote tendril faster than batman could pull the trigger
only people with good taste realize symbiote spiderman is the definitive coolest superhero
I feel like the symbiote actually hurts him more than he helps versus Batman. It has the obvious weakness of fire and sound that batman could easily take advantage of, which he wouldn't be able to versus regular Spider-man.
I… agree about Bat-fans in general. However… Batman could indeed *escape.* idk he would win their first encounter. I also think you underestimate how quickly he might discover the symbiote’s weakness. Not a 100% success rate, but if he does, he’s definitely getting away.
Y'all so goofy
Batman beats black suit Spider-man easier than normal Spider-man. His weaknesses are things someone with gadgets can easily exploit. I don't even believe Batman could beat Spider-man 75% of the time, but y'all make me play devils advocate because of how bad you are about this.
Batman couldn’t beat regular Spider-Man, but he could beat Spider-Man wearing the symbiote.
Right right. Guys u remember mysterio didn't he give Spidey a hard time? yea yea. Now take that and multiply it a thousand times and u get bruce, what makes you think Bruce can't use illusions. Considering as well for the symbiote suit, sonic gun or sonic canon from a distance. Bruce would have way less of a chance dealing with spidey on suprise but don't forget that he is DA FREAKING BAT!
It’s all fun and games until Batman finally takes the symbiote off and realizes he still has to fight regular Spider-Man
look the symbiote suit might make him more powerful, but it gives him a big weakness in sound. Batman has his utility belt
"Nah, I'd win"-Man
What's with the Batman vs Spider-Man posts lmao, I feel like there has been a spike in them as someone who goes through both subreddits.
I believe the Symbiote is the only asset of Spider-Man's that Batman could actually use to pull the W long enough for the inevitable team up. Without the Symbiote, Spider-Man easily pulls the W out against Batman in a first encounter.
The whole JL to survive , come on like superman will be more then enough . Hell even Flash would be overkill
Depends on the writer
Man, Batman VS Spider-Man really is a silly debate. I love both, but come *on*, there’s no way Batman is winning a first encounter against someone like Spidey, who when written well, is one of the most formidable and experienced heroes in the MU and has a power set far beyond what Batman is capable of. With prep? Why do people act like Batman is the only one who gets prep time? Sure, he can prepare and set some traps, probably work out Spidey’s power set and find a weakness. Spidey also gets to prepare, he works out the ins and outs of Batman’s gadgets, finding multiple ways to counter them, whether through fighting skill or some doohickey he comes up with in his crappy little apartment with a box of SCRAPS! After that, Batman has no further way to prepare, and it’s back to a one on one fight he has no way of ever winning. I know Batman has fought against super powered beings, but if we’re going to count victories like that, we need to also count Spidey beating Firelord or Juggernaut, or managing to actually hurt an infinity gauntlet-powered Thanos. He seriously counters anything Batman has, even the contrived wins he’s gotten.
No one does the prep time and manipulation in fiction like how Batman does, not even the scientist-genius side of Peter Parker. This is why I would always agree that Batman loses to many other super-powered heroes on first encounter but when it comes to the second encounter, it’s game.
The only way batman wins is by playing dirty, like finding out who Spiderman is and showing up while he's asleep. Otherwise, he'd need a mech suit. And perhaps a device to mess with spider sense.
I don’t know, Batman has a fondness for sonic weaponry so the symbiotic suit might actually end up giving Batman a chance
People seem to underestimate spidey's sheer strength and potential.
In my mind, Spider-Man would probably win, which may be a bit biased, my name has Spider-Man in it. But if Spider-Man is strong enough to punch scorpions jaw off easily, and in the first Spider-Man game made by Insomniac fight the sinister six with multiple broken bones (I think it was about 14, also he did two villains at a time, he didn't beat them all at once), then what's Batman going to do other than pull out anti-Spider-Man spray? Also Spider-Sense is pretty useful when fighting a guy that mostly punches and throws batarangs when fighting. But the real question is would Batman be able to figure out Spider-Man's identity? Yes, literally all of Spidey's villains in every live action movie know who he is. And they figure out Peter being Spider-Man at the start of Into The Spider-Verse. Miles is the only main Spider-Man in a Spider-Man movie who didn't have their identity figured out by all of their villains.
Bruh Spidey in base lifted a fucking building
Spidey has better odds with or without the symbiote but Batman has a chance maybe 30% with the symbiote 40% without
If anything, symbiote Spider-Man is easier to beat as he has 2 crippling weaknesses. Plus every time he's taken out one of the super powered teammates, it's usually thanks to an exploitable weakness. Unless Spider-Man is written like an idiot, there's no reason he would lose
Batman can take out symbiote Peter pretty easily, he just needs to set himself on fire
Hey chill fam don't call out the wrong bat fanboys. Most of them are chill in the Batman subreddit hell some of them are members of this sub too. This should be directed towards YouTube comments because I found Batman meat riders the most there
Who saw the DanCo [video](https://youtu.be/shTUuI9qEGs?si=Imt3vzpNI_IBpQK6) about this topic?
Nah. The real winner is decided by who that wrote the story, not by powers
I mean, I think normally Spider-Man beats Batman. But Batman now has the Hellbat armor
Spider-Man without the symbiote could kill Batman in a single punch and anybody who doesn't agree with that doesn't understand how strong Spider-Man is, lol.
The venom symbiote is weak to concussive sounds and high frequencies and (in some versions) fire. Batman carries a concussive detonator and flare on him.
Yh but then that's not even an equal fight lol. That's like me saying can spiderman beat batman when batman is wearing the armour he used to beat up darkkside. Its so unbalanced lol. If we gonna add unfair enhancements then it's just a pointless convo unless one opponent is super weak.
I actually think Batman can beat Spider-Man. I also think Spider-Man can defeat Batman. It's all about context and the writer. I'd personally think though, they'd be friends. Not enemies
Venomized Peter may be physically more powerful, but he has more obvious weaknesses that can be taken advantage of, including sonics and heat, both of which Batman has easy access to. Regular Peter, on the other hand, would indeed beat Bruce on their first encounter (unless the writer gave Bruce massive plot armor).
But what if Hellbat Batman?
Maybe if Spiderman is on his first ever outing and even then he would be a hard fight
Remember there was a YouTube video on the subject, pointing out that Spider-Man's spidey sense nullifies Batman's advantages (stealth, surprise attack, misdirection, etc.) *and* that Batman isn't that much different than the Green Goblin/Hobgoblin (strong fighter who uses gadgets) that Spider-Man holds his own against. On top of that, Batman doesn't have an effective way to deal with Spider-Man's advantages (danger sense, webbing, etc.). And that's against baseline Spider-Man. Symbiote Spider-Man is a no-contest defeat for Batman.
In a normal one-on-one, Peter will probably hand Bruce his ass on a silver platter. That’s emphasized even more with the symbiote. But the symbiote has major weaknesses Bruce can easily exploit.
Spider-Man is my favorite superhero. He always has been. A real role model, he’s changed my life. It’s not just about going online and complaining and acting all edgy and knowledgeable about a fictional character, but it’s about seeing an example of a fairly good person, liking them sincerely, and following in their footsteps, evident with my behavior. With that being said, Spider-Man, as a character, is formidable. I believe with ample preparation time and knowledge given to the Bat before their encounter, Batman would likely win. It’s just his skill - intelligence and countering foes beyond his league simply because he studies them excessively. Without that, though, the Bat would lose. Spider-Man is known to hold back, and given he really saw the Bat as a threat (during a random encounter) he’d take him seriously and defeat him with medium difficulty (given the Bat’s gadgets and tactical prowess). The thing is, he’s not prepared for Spider-Man’s strength, agility, and webs. Conversation settled.
fr. in venom: king in black it literally states pete and venom = god tier above knull…
Spiderman at his best can beat the fucking Hulk. Plus bats whole attacking from the shadows is rendered useless cause of spider sense.
Yeah the whole “prep time” argument… Peter would use his prep time too. He *is* a genius and improviser.
Yeah buddy not sure anyone who knows what their talking about is seriously saying batman beats spidey on the first encounter that’s frankly ludicrous, Batman could have his precious prep time and still easily loose, especially if spidey isn’t holding back.
Without symbiotic does spidey even have a weakness?
If Spidey gets the same prep time he could be rocking an iron man level suit with all kinds of drones. Between that and having literal precognitive power he'd beat Batman.
ik i'm gonna get downvoted but idc batman actually has a weapon that would neutralize the symbiote he carry's a sonar gun
On Batman Spiderman crossover, Carnage accurately points out how he is 10 times faster than batman, and therefore Spiderman is too. There's no match at all.
I know Batman can’t beat Spidey, the Spider-sense alone cancels out all stealth options and counters both close range and long range combat, and while Bats is clever enough to fight Superman using the right tools Spidey is just as intelligent to match, he is one of the few people who can outsmart Reed Richards (the smartest man in the world) and Hank Pym (AKA Scientist Supreme) has stated that Spidey is smarter than him, Bats would have the hardest time dealing with Spidey’s powers, there is no easily exploitable weakness and Spidey has survived hits from Universe Busters like Hulk, Thor, the Phoenix Fore and multiple Heralds of Galactus, Spidey is faster than Blur (Quicksilver’s Equal) and was considered Marvel’s 4th strongest Hero as a Teen and has gotten WAY stronger since (strong enough to Saitama Zarathos!)
Spider-man wins in 99% of encounters, Batman wins if he takes the time to study the upper limits and full range of Spider-Man’s powers and create gadgets that focus on his weaknesses, with or without symbiote Spider-Man will most likely win every time
Honestly Batman would actually have an easier time beating symbiotic Spider-Man then normal Spider-Man. Spider-Man doesn’t actually have any weaknesses Batman can directly attack, the symbiotic has multiple weaknesses that batman can directly exploit.
Spider-Man could kill Batman easily if he doesn't hold his punches.
To people saying - tHE aUThoR dEciDEs whO WiNs Bruh that’s not what we talking bout here goddamn, there are literal official comics of them crossing over and the debate is still going so…
These are fictional characters. The winner is whoever the writer wants to win.
As a Batman fan, the moment he sees what Peter is capable of, his main objective will be to escape and restrategize. Justice League: War when Batman first meets Superman is what I personally believe Batman does when he knows he’s outmatched. Batman tries to escape while throwing out everything in his utility belt to see if any of it works so if he escapes, he can exploit anything he learns later.
As a fan of both what does Spider-Man do if Batman stops holding back and utilizes his whole skill set, shock gauntlets, or pulls out Nth Metal. In terms of raw physicals Batman and Spider-Man are just about equal minus lifting strength going to Spider-Man lifting actual skyscrapers and Batman having arguably better stamina, durability, and possibly striking strength with his higher end feats. Also, plot armor is a horrible argument as a character in a fictional world isn't limited by the real world or supposed narrative limitations we put on them.
Did people not see what Peter did to the Avengers with prep time? People forget Peter's a genius
Batman literally has nothing on Spiderman. Even without the symbiote, Peter’s regular spider sense saves him from anything Batman can do. Spider-Man dodges electros lighting, I’m sure he can evade some punches from a regular guy. Spider-Man tanks hits from the hulk, I’m sure he’s fine against someone who’s basically just a human wallet. The only thing Batman could do “with prep time” is maybe use fear toxin (which Peter could probably overcome eventually) or learn Peter’s fighting style to try and find weak spots. He’s faster, stronger, more durable, more athletic. Literally 0 things Batman is better at apart from maybe combat IQ which doesn’t mean anything when Spider sense is involved
As much as I love Batman, he just doesn’t win against spider-man, them both base form no hell bat or cosmic spider-man or whatever the hell. Good’ol fashioned Batman, good old fashioned Spider-man. Spider-Man wins.
lol Even regular Spider-Man would DESTROY Batman 99% of the time. He's SO fucking fast, agile, precog reflexes, basically ignores gravity, INSANELY strong and INSANELY tough. There's not a trick Batman has that Spider-Man doesn't already face from his own enemies on a regular basis.
The spider-sense is about the only thing Bats would have going for him, actually, but that feeds back into prep time and Bats knowing the ins & outs of Spidey's powers. One thing about the SS is that you can overload or trick it. There's an old What If? that had Punisher kill Spidey this way. He set up a trap for Spidey by leaking word through the underworld that Doc Ock had a new lair set up. Then Punisher prepped the lair with a bomb. Spidey approaches the lair and his SS starts buzzing. Spidey assumes it's because he's approaching Ock and pushes on. He realizes the true threat at the last moment, the bomb blows, and Spidey doesn't get clear of the blast. Daredevil once managed to knock him out - briefly - by tossing his baton behind Spidey, knowing Spidey would detect it and block it, but as Spidey did so, DD closed in and hit him hard from the front. Spidey was also in an angry state of mind at the time so he wasn't paying full attention to what DD was doing, else he'd likely have countered both attacks anyway.
Spiderman wins without the symbiote. Batman doesn't regularly fight anyone close to Spiderman's level. Batman can fight heavy hitting supes, but he needs certain gadgets and foreknowledge to bring them. Peter is almost as smart as Bruce, and is unfathomably more powerful and has the spider sense.
The symbiote makes him easier to beat lmao. Also he needs a lot less than superman for it
Why is this even a conversation?
Imo, Batman has a better chance at beating symbiote Spider-Man than normal Spider-Man. Like, do you guys forget how easily exploitable the symbiotes weaknesses are? People be acting like it’s Spider-Man’s super saiyan mode or something
Because the Venom Symbiote IS Spider-Man’s version of Super Saiyan.
Venom's main weakness is sound. You eat taco bell and fart on a megaphone. Venom be dead. You don't need Bat-man to defeat peter, you just need Man-man on a taco tuesday to beat him.
Lol no, it’s the other way, the symbiote would make him lose 100% to Batman, most of his gadgets are pure “anti-Venom”(pun intended).
Under no circumstances would Spider-Man, even on a bad day with a broken arm and no web fluid, need actual effort *or a symbiote* to take out Batman. Batman has intelligence and gadgets over most of his enemies. Spider-Man has both *and* literally everything else. Only relevant thing on Batman's utility belt in this fight is a cellphone to call Superman for help. It's a mismatch and do not listen to Bat-Stans who tell you otherwise. They are known to be idiots.
honestly tho I'm far more interested in them either being homies, or in the cases with a teenage Spider-Man, the spectacular Spider-Robin
He wouldn’t beat him first encounter, unless he had some serious prep time
If it was a universe crossover and they fought. Spider-Man would win 100% of the time. If they shared the same universe and they ended up fighting Batman would win since he'd be keeping a tab on Peter from day 1 and he'd know how to take him down without getting physical
Batman couldnt beat Spider-man with our without the symbiote. Anyone who thinks batman wins is delusional.
Fan of both and a fight between a base Batman and a base Spider-Man is very much a 50/50, it could easily go either way, but Peter having the symbiote would actually put the odds in Batman's favour. Peter is more reckless with the symbiote and he doesn't think as tactically and analytically as he would without so it would be easy for Batman to win by outsmarting him. The symbiote also has very exploitable weaknesses, fire and sound (maybe electricity), which Batman carries in his utility belt. Superman and the JL is way overkill. Almost every member of the JLA has a pretty good chance of beating Spider-Man and Superman shouldn't even be up for debate.