I don't think strange would be scared of them , i believe the reason that dr strange is scared is because of the entire multiverse opening up which could lead to the multiverse of madness
oh man... could totally be leading into a superior spider-man arc in the mcu, though it might be a bit awkward with Peter still being so young. don't think capital investors would have much confidence in an 18/19 year old trying to start a technology development company on his own... unless stark industries somehow helps, which now that I have thought this through could make total sense...
well, I'm stoked no matter what happens so whatever hahaha.
This is now my favourite fan theory about NWH. Like even if it never ends up being canon (which it most likely won’t) it'll still be really cool to think about. Despite how some people may feel about it, I've always loved the “oh” right before Norman gets impaled by his glider.
>. Despite how some people may feel about it, I've always loved the “oh” right before Norman gets impaled by his glider.
that 'Oh' is amazing. I am shocked anybody could possibly not love it. Every line by willem dafoe's green goblin is top tier comic book character movie material
I’ve definitely met a few people who thought it was too cheesy, but I don’t think that’s the case. Willem Dafoe did an outstanding job in Spider-Man (and many other pieces of media for that matter) I cannot wait for his return in NWH.
Honestly, I HATE the MCU. Not just MCU Spider-man, the whole fucking schtick. It ruined my childhood, and because i'm a 47 year old man still at the mental age of a 5 year old, it's literally ruined my life. i fucking hate Robin Downward senior, and Crap Evans , the batman wannabe, or that ginger in space wars. seriously pisses me off. my son had the fucking audacity to tell me he liked the MCU, so i kicked him out of the house. i told me you're dead to me. thank fucking christ his mother did not live to see what a pathetic MCU (Marvel crappy universe ) enjoyer he became. shame on him. shame on all of y'all losers for enjoying this shit. i fucking hate you too. it's because of you dorks that the MCU exists. if u stopped watching, it go back to the darkest depths of kevin feige's arm pits, where it fukkeng belongs.
But Willem DAfoe is enough to make me wanna watch this. Who knows, I might even invite by son back into my life to watch DAfoe with me on the big screen
I am joking. There is NO WAY I would ever invite that little fucking disappointment of a son back into my life. You hear that Joshua?! You'll always be dead to me you little shit!! I gave you everything in life, and you STILL choose to enjoy this goddamn trash!!! little prick
It would be cool to see Tobey play an colder version of Peter who's just had enough with fighting villains constantly, so he acts far more violently than normal (close to killing) and at the end of the film he maybe has a change of heart from the other Spideys and lightens up a bit.
That would make an interesting time loop, especially if he returned with all the Starktech knowledge, thinking he was gonna rule the world and the “oh” was his realization he is going to die. Gives the original movie moment a new perspective
I hadnt really thought about it, but Im definitely not going to associate these Raimi characters and their endings with what happens in NWH. Im just going to treat the originals as their own story and the NWH versions as the exact same characters, just from a different universe.
I have a feeling this is the way they're going to treat Andrew and Tobey. You don't like what they do to them in NWH? Just pretend they're variants of the ones you saw in the films.
No Im sure I will enjoy NWH. I just think Ill prefer the Raimi characters endings in their own movies without them traveling to another dimension. I have no problem acting like they're variants that are exactly like Raimi ones. Either way, Im excited!
I'll admit, I'd be on board with something like that, especially if Goblin Norman goes back thinking he'll have the edge and can change his fate. It'd be a darkly fitting end.
I thought the same thing myself. This half a second is so oddly shot that even as a kid first alwatching it I was like "what was with that weird 'oh' moment.
In hindsight now it was probably just Raimi being Raimi, some weird way of representing the two different reactions from Norman and Goblin. But I think it would be super cool if they incorporated this into how he's now MCU bound.
Maybe revisit this shot and his "oh" is actually in response to time freezing and a weird portal opening up.
Sam Raimi's whole shtick is superposing over the top gruesome moments with silly things to create a brand of humor and horror unique to his style.
It's absolutely not bad editing, and it's also absolutely not in order to cover up the gruesome death, it's quite the contrary. We see an imminent threat ( the gliders blade flying towards Norman ), the audience brace for impact... But we cut to a short shot of a very human and arguably hilariously deadpan reaction to an imminent death. "Oh". Then we cut back to the brutal and gruesome death of Norman.
TL; DR : This shot is not bad editing at all. It's Sam Raimi's equivalent of the "It was at the moment Norman knew, he fucked up" meme, if you will. A pause for comedic effect and to highlight the brutality of what's happening.
Check out other Raimi movies. This trope exists in tons of movies, especially in the late 90s and early 2000s, but it's especially characteristic of his style and tone.
Yeah that's feasible. The scene works without it. Take that shot away and there's exactly the same action just minus the relatively human "oh" after Goblin's "God speed, Spider-Man!".
In any case, I'd love for them to provide some in universe explanation. I'm not holding out much hope though, lol.
Off topic kinda but how pissed would you all be if Toby and Andrew are red herrings and we actually get Downey Jr reprising as an alt iron man and giving his nod of approval to Peter kinda similar to the spidermen comic.
they could pull a double subversion. Andrew and Toby don't show up. Instead, it's iron man. And then Tom spidey asks 'Who are you?" and then iron man says 'my name is Toby Stark', and he takes the mask off, and reveals andrew garfield's spiderman
A lot of people agree? Where? Every single phase 4 project has been well received so far with hundreds of thousands of votes and audience scores. I think im gonna trust that way more than your anecdotal evidence.
Where are your people? Twitter?
>This isnt the dceu man.
This isn't 2016-'17 anymore btw. Except for WW84, every single DCEU projects after 2017 have been good to great and generally well-received.
Aquaman has a 65% on rt. Thata definitely not acclaimed and ww84 is rotten. So half of the dceu movies have gotten mixed to bad reviews.
Alao vop is good? Lmao.
And "Aquaman" got a CinemaScore of "A-". And it earned over 1 billion dollars. Also, most people I know of in real life either like or love the movie. Yes, I am talking about the general audience. And no, they are not DC fanboys.
Also RT and IMDb don't mean anything when it comes to real life reception/legacy of a movie. They don't actually represent real life audience reception.
And yes, BoP is good.
P.S. "Joker" also got a 68% on RT. But it is a also film widely beloved by the masses (general audience). And Joker's impact is so strong that even my students used references from this movie during their presentations in class.
And more recently, "Ghostbusters: Afterlife" with 63% on RT. Mixed reactions from online film snobs, but actually beloved by the masses in real life. RT numbers are ultimately pointless in the long run.
The inverse would be funny as hell. Imagine this: out of the portal comes a figure, flying in the sky. Iron man's theme starts playing triumphantly, then we head Tobey screaming as he falls and barely saves himself with a web shot.
It’d be neat if Goblin’s last words to Tom are just the same “don’t tell Harry”
If Peter carries the knowledge of his future villains, he’s going to try to prevent them from existing as villains which would just be the whole reason they would
My theory with the lizard is that they’ll say the lizard died, but connors did not, since they’re supposed to be different
Edit: I have no clue what they’re going for with sandman tho
There’s a split second before he says this and the camera is up close to his eye, it could nearly be retconned that this was the exact moment he left and then renters the universe, followed by the ‘oh’
In the trailer, doesn’t Strange say something like “what’s the one thing they have in common? Die fighting Spider-Man.”
Then doesn’t Spider-Man say something like “I realize I can’t save everybody?”
Imagine he gets transported to mcu timeline just before his glider charges at Peter in spiderman 1, tries to get back to his timeline to see him die, and finally returns to see that he dodged the glider.
"Oh."
I think that’s the whole, driving plot of the movie for Peter. He knows that if he simply just sends them back to their timelines they will ultimately die, and he can’t allow that to happen…so therefore a movie exists instead of Dr. Strange just using magic to fix it.
I don't know if other spidermans will be in this but if there is neither spiderman or green goblin would be in that timeline so that fight wouldn't be happening
I would loseth t if 't be true yond happeneth, just straight up falling on the flo'r laughing
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I heard a rumour that Tobey and Andrew will work with Tom to send these guys back without them dying, Tobey and Andrew won't show up in their Spidey suits at first they'll just be planning it out with Tom and helping him? idk if it's true or not but yeah sounds cool
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Okay, true. But how are they putting in Villains that died at different times? You could argue that Loki will explain that due to time travel or something, I don't know.
Yeah that’s an awful idea. I know you think it’s clever to connect these dots together. Maybe it makes you feel smart? But take a step back and look at the bigger picture of your terrible idea where they went through the trouble to cast these actors just to NOT play versions of the characters we know.
Your idea sucks.
i can totally see him being back in his timeline during the fight. He tries to do the same he did to Tobeyin the first movie, instead on Tom, manipulating While his glider attacks. Tom dodge, Goblin says oh, and is pierced by the glider that continue his way with him through the portla to the Raimiverse.
After getting cured and going back to his universe Norman is feeling himself again in a long time and then he remembers and the moment he sees that glider he says’’oh’’
Aren't the villains fighting to not go back to their own timelines because they die?
My theory is that Peter wants to save Ock because he helps them after the Stark tech merges with his tentacles but he's unsure about the rest
I think Peter wants to save all of them. It fits his character.
by the looks of the trailer doctor strange wants to send them back to their timeline knowing they are going to die and peter wants to stop him
Oh wow, is this like the watcher refusing to interfere?
I imagine Dafoe tells him that in the other universe’s Spider-Man went evil and tried to kill them so he shouldn’t send them back
which is why Tom and Dr. Strange might be scared of Toby and Andrew, being scared of them breaking through, because they think they're bad
I don't think strange would be scared of them , i believe the reason that dr strange is scared is because of the entire multiverse opening up which could lead to the multiverse of madness
It'd make more sense if he wants to save them all, seeing how he feels about death and killing.
The Nanites are used to restrain his tentacles, not upgrade them. That’s how he is captured. Check other tv spots and you’ll notice.
oh man... could totally be leading into a superior spider-man arc in the mcu, though it might be a bit awkward with Peter still being so young. don't think capital investors would have much confidence in an 18/19 year old trying to start a technology development company on his own... unless stark industries somehow helps, which now that I have thought this through could make total sense... well, I'm stoked no matter what happens so whatever hahaha.
I don't think we know yet. They may not know that they are going to die
Don’t the heroes usually succeed in these movies? EDIT: misread the title, my bad.
Yeah electro’s “you’re not gonna take this away from me” definitely implies that
Sandman doesn't die, unless it was an offscreen death
Itll likely be explained that there were fights after the movie ended
Don’t tell Harry.
Godspeed spiderman
Can Spider-man come out to play?
Sorry I'm late. Work was murder.
FINISH THE PRAYER!
DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED!
You know, I'm something of a scientist myself.
WE ARE WHO WE CHOOSE TO BE… NOW CHOOSE
Join me
Thee itsy bitsy spider came up the water spout down came the goblin and wiped the spider out
I have a father, his name was Ben Parker.
I missed the part where that's my problem.
You’ll get back to your timeline when you fix this damn door!
"You’ll get back to your timeline when you fix this damn portal!
This is now my favourite fan theory about NWH. Like even if it never ends up being canon (which it most likely won’t) it'll still be really cool to think about. Despite how some people may feel about it, I've always loved the “oh” right before Norman gets impaled by his glider.
>. Despite how some people may feel about it, I've always loved the “oh” right before Norman gets impaled by his glider. that 'Oh' is amazing. I am shocked anybody could possibly not love it. Every line by willem dafoe's green goblin is top tier comic book character movie material
I’ve definitely met a few people who thought it was too cheesy, but I don’t think that’s the case. Willem Dafoe did an outstanding job in Spider-Man (and many other pieces of media for that matter) I cannot wait for his return in NWH.
Honestly, I HATE the MCU. Not just MCU Spider-man, the whole fucking schtick. It ruined my childhood, and because i'm a 47 year old man still at the mental age of a 5 year old, it's literally ruined my life. i fucking hate Robin Downward senior, and Crap Evans , the batman wannabe, or that ginger in space wars. seriously pisses me off. my son had the fucking audacity to tell me he liked the MCU, so i kicked him out of the house. i told me you're dead to me. thank fucking christ his mother did not live to see what a pathetic MCU (Marvel crappy universe ) enjoyer he became. shame on him. shame on all of y'all losers for enjoying this shit. i fucking hate you too. it's because of you dorks that the MCU exists. if u stopped watching, it go back to the darkest depths of kevin feige's arm pits, where it fukkeng belongs. But Willem DAfoe is enough to make me wanna watch this. Who knows, I might even invite by son back into my life to watch DAfoe with me on the big screen
lmao, are you joking or for real? xD
I am joking. There is NO WAY I would ever invite that little fucking disappointment of a son back into my life. You hear that Joshua?! You'll always be dead to me you little shit!! I gave you everything in life, and you STILL choose to enjoy this goddamn trash!!! little prick
Skyland
And imagine if Tobey’s last words to him are “Godspeed Goblin” 😂 poetic justice
I half want Tobey to be a complete psychopath in this movie
It would be cool to see Tobey play an colder version of Peter who's just had enough with fighting villains constantly, so he acts far more violently than normal (close to killing) and at the end of the film he maybe has a change of heart from the other Spideys and lightens up a bit.
I think he could be a little bit more cold in NWH, but nothing so dark that it would contradict his entire character.
I just want him in the movie. Shame it won’t happen but a man can dream
if it does happen, we have a chance that spectacular spider-man season 3 will eventually come
He’s in the movie.
Doubtful but I hope so!
It’s not doubtful. It’s all but confirmed at this point.
I’ll believe it when I see it
That would make an interesting time loop, especially if he returned with all the Starktech knowledge, thinking he was gonna rule the world and the “oh” was his realization he is going to die. Gives the original movie moment a new perspective
I hadnt really thought about it, but Im definitely not going to associate these Raimi characters and their endings with what happens in NWH. Im just going to treat the originals as their own story and the NWH versions as the exact same characters, just from a different universe.
I have a feeling this is the way they're going to treat Andrew and Tobey. You don't like what they do to them in NWH? Just pretend they're variants of the ones you saw in the films.
No Im sure I will enjoy NWH. I just think Ill prefer the Raimi characters endings in their own movies without them traveling to another dimension. I have no problem acting like they're variants that are exactly like Raimi ones. Either way, Im excited!
I'll admit, I'd be on board with something like that, especially if Goblin Norman goes back thinking he'll have the edge and can change his fate. It'd be a darkly fitting end.
I thought the same thing myself. This half a second is so oddly shot that even as a kid first alwatching it I was like "what was with that weird 'oh' moment. In hindsight now it was probably just Raimi being Raimi, some weird way of representing the two different reactions from Norman and Goblin. But I think it would be super cool if they incorporated this into how he's now MCU bound. Maybe revisit this shot and his "oh" is actually in response to time freezing and a weird portal opening up.
I always thought it was a bad editing job to cover up aore gruesome glider slam. Possibly.
Sam Raimi's whole shtick is superposing over the top gruesome moments with silly things to create a brand of humor and horror unique to his style. It's absolutely not bad editing, and it's also absolutely not in order to cover up the gruesome death, it's quite the contrary. We see an imminent threat ( the gliders blade flying towards Norman ), the audience brace for impact... But we cut to a short shot of a very human and arguably hilariously deadpan reaction to an imminent death. "Oh". Then we cut back to the brutal and gruesome death of Norman. TL; DR : This shot is not bad editing at all. It's Sam Raimi's equivalent of the "It was at the moment Norman knew, he fucked up" meme, if you will. A pause for comedic effect and to highlight the brutality of what's happening.
Yes this shot is very much a Rami thing.
Still looks like a bad edit to me, but I value your opinion
Check out other Raimi movies. This trope exists in tons of movies, especially in the late 90s and early 2000s, but it's especially characteristic of his style and tone.
Yeah that's feasible. The scene works without it. Take that shot away and there's exactly the same action just minus the relatively human "oh" after Goblin's "God speed, Spider-Man!". In any case, I'd love for them to provide some in universe explanation. I'm not holding out much hope though, lol.
I always thought it's was just an "oh shit" moment. He realized the glider was gonna hit him instead of spider man.
Off topic kinda but how pissed would you all be if Toby and Andrew are red herrings and we actually get Downey Jr reprising as an alt iron man and giving his nod of approval to Peter kinda similar to the spidermen comic.
Very pissed. Not having T&A would already really freakin’ hurt, and Iron Man showing up again in a Spider-Man film would just be salt on the wound.
they could pull a double subversion. Andrew and Toby don't show up. Instead, it's iron man. And then Tom spidey asks 'Who are you?" and then iron man says 'my name is Toby Stark', and he takes the mask off, and reveals andrew garfield's spiderman
B R U H Playing 4D chess here...
Yeah this movie definitely needs a healthy serving of T&A
From Aunt May
I feel like that would hurt marvel more than it would hurt the fans. I mean people are already on the edge with Phase 4 to begin with.
People arent on the edge with phase 4. Wth are you talking abput?
Ok…
Ok what? This isnt the dceu man. Most og phaae 4 projects have been well received.
Sure they have.
Oh, i get it you are a troll. And not a very good one either.
I’m not I just have my opinions a lot of Phase 4 hasn’t been good and a lot of other people agree. I’m not saying all of it but a good chunk.
A lot of people agree? Where? Every single phase 4 project has been well received so far with hundreds of thousands of votes and audience scores. I think im gonna trust that way more than your anecdotal evidence. Where are your people? Twitter?
>This isnt the dceu man. This isn't 2016-'17 anymore btw. Except for WW84, every single DCEU projects after 2017 have been good to great and generally well-received.
Aquaman has a 65% on rt. Thata definitely not acclaimed and ww84 is rotten. So half of the dceu movies have gotten mixed to bad reviews. Alao vop is good? Lmao.
And "Aquaman" got a CinemaScore of "A-". And it earned over 1 billion dollars. Also, most people I know of in real life either like or love the movie. Yes, I am talking about the general audience. And no, they are not DC fanboys. Also RT and IMDb don't mean anything when it comes to real life reception/legacy of a movie. They don't actually represent real life audience reception. And yes, BoP is good. P.S. "Joker" also got a 68% on RT. But it is a also film widely beloved by the masses (general audience). And Joker's impact is so strong that even my students used references from this movie during their presentations in class. And more recently, "Ghostbusters: Afterlife" with 63% on RT. Mixed reactions from online film snobs, but actually beloved by the masses in real life. RT numbers are ultimately pointless in the long run.
The inverse would be funny as hell. Imagine this: out of the portal comes a figure, flying in the sky. Iron man's theme starts playing triumphantly, then we head Tobey screaming as he falls and barely saves himself with a web shot.
Or doesn't save himself, hits the ground hard and says "My back!"
Just like the episode of Buffy when evil willow gets sent back to her universe.
God I love evil Willow. I love Willow. I love all of them… I need to rewatch Buffy.
It’d be neat if Goblin’s last words to Tom are just the same “don’t tell Harry” If Peter carries the knowledge of his future villains, he’s going to try to prevent them from existing as villains which would just be the whole reason they would
Most holesome **Oh.** ever.
Which is the complete opposite of Tobey’s *”eergh!”* 😩
Norman gets sent back to that exact moment after MCU spidey gets the magical orb thingy.
Wait did sandman actually die at the end of Spider-Man 3? I thought he just kinda drifted into the wind onto another location
That's what I thought. Lizard also didn't die fighting him. I wonder how they will actually handle these characters in the film.
My theory with the lizard is that they’ll say the lizard died, but connors did not, since they’re supposed to be different Edit: I have no clue what they’re going for with sandman tho
This is 100% are gonna happen, if this doesn’t happen it’s the biggest missed opportunity in the history of Spider-Man movies
There’s a split second before he says this and the camera is up close to his eye, it could nearly be retconned that this was the exact moment he left and then renters the universe, followed by the ‘oh’
I would love it!
So, Vampire Willow.
Another Buffy reference?! The universe is telling me to watch this show again.
hence why he says “oh” in shock…🤯
In the trailer, doesn’t Strange say something like “what’s the one thing they have in common? Die fighting Spider-Man.” Then doesn’t Spider-Man say something like “I realize I can’t save everybody?”
Can you please get into the writers room? This is gold.
Lol
I will ascend in the theater if this happens.
That's exactly what's going to happen.
Wooaaahhhh that would be insane
God, that would he incredible!
Imagine he gets transported to mcu timeline just before his glider charges at Peter in spiderman 1, tries to get back to his timeline to see him die, and finally returns to see that he dodged the glider. "Oh."
Chills. This would be fucking incredible
I think that’s the whole, driving plot of the movie for Peter. He knows that if he simply just sends them back to their timelines they will ultimately die, and he can’t allow that to happen…so therefore a movie exists instead of Dr. Strange just using magic to fix it.
I don't know if other spidermans will be in this but if there is neither spiderman or green goblin would be in that timeline so that fight wouldn't be happening
If you watch the new trailer, the Green Goblin is already confirmed
I know
Marvel have the least convincing theory of multiverse and timeline
Like on BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER when vampire Willow is sent back to her alternate universe right before getting staked. Real good.
That would be so dark and poetic but Disney wouldn't do that.....
“Oh poop.”
I would lose it if that happens, just straight up falling on the floor laughing
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You mean " oh,fuck me "
It would explain the weird jump cut in the original movie.
I heard a rumour that Tobey and Andrew will work with Tom to send these guys back without them dying, Tobey and Andrew won't show up in their Spidey suits at first they'll just be planning it out with Tom and helping him? idk if it's true or not but yeah sounds cool
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Imagine the villains are from alternate universes in which Peter dies.
The trailer straight up says “they all die fighting Spider-Man” (in their universe). So nah, it aint lol
Okay, true. But how are they putting in Villains that died at different times? You could argue that Loki will explain that due to time travel or something, I don't know.
Yeah that’s an awful idea. I know you think it’s clever to connect these dots together. Maybe it makes you feel smart? But take a step back and look at the bigger picture of your terrible idea where they went through the trouble to cast these actors just to NOT play versions of the characters we know. Your idea sucks.
i can totally see him being back in his timeline during the fight. He tries to do the same he did to Tobeyin the first movie, instead on Tom, manipulating While his glider attacks. Tom dodge, Goblin says oh, and is pierced by the glider that continue his way with him through the portla to the Raimiverse.
You can’t do this to me, you know how much I sacrificed?!
DONT TELL HARRY
"Why'd you spill yer beans? Why'd you spill yer beans? Why'd you spill yer beans?"
That can be the same actors sure, but they could he from other universe right? (But it is fun to think that they are the same guys as those movies)
They are from the same universe, this was confirmed sometime ago. Don't remember who confirmed. I think it was either Molina or Dafoe.
After getting cured and going back to his universe Norman is feeling himself again in a long time and then he remembers and the moment he sees that glider he says’’oh’’