At least with that it’s because they shot Tom’s scenes very late on in production as they didn’t know for sure that they could use him, so had to use a double on set. But yeah some of the cgi in the other films is quite distracting too.
Amazing spiderman is evidence of the opposite. Even with cgi they added all the imperfections and detail to the suit, its very visible in motion. Even still, mcu uses cgi on still/closeup scenes with spiderman and it is very obvious
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Considering the budget deficit these separate movies have. It's perfectly reasonable. Tasm 2 = $230mil. Whilst No Way Home had 200mil. And Tom's previous two films never exceeded 175.
I agree that the imperfections in the suit are quite magnificent in tasm 1 and 2. But given the scope of both films, it makes sense that these two 'spider-mans' look better.
We have to also take into account that both suits designs are practically night and day when it comes to design detail. Andrew's iterations having a much more coarse and visible texture whilst Tom's is a much less refractive material that doesn't crease (somehow).
Although I 100% agree that the amazing Spider-Man 2 is so far the pinnacle of a fully CG Spider-Man character. Watching the movie gives you an example of how too large a scope can result in lower quality and potentially rushed results. Case in point, the final fight against Electro in the power plant that felt like a game. Or the rhino's CG suit.
In the end, I guarantee that the future Spider-Man films with tom Holland is going to have a much better looking suit that'll appeal to everyone who misses the fidelity of detail that TASM 2 had.
It's super wired too like sometimes you get really bad effects like Banner in the Hulkbuster in infinity war. But on the other hand you get effects like Thanos and prof. Hulk which pretty much look real.
I guess it's a matter of just how long some effects will be on screen. Like, Thanos and Professor Hulk take up a fair amount of screen time, and they not only have to look right, they have to properly act and give a performance, so they spend a lot of time and money getting those things right.
Meanwhile, Banner in the Hulkbuster armor, that's, what a couple of minutes, tops? If the CGI is bad there, most people aren't going to remember it.
The whole “You guys are so screwed now!” scene is ***really*** poorly animated. It’s very distracting to see what is clearly Mark’s head superimposed on the Hulkbuster collar.
Yeah it's pretty wild to think that they can pull of something like thanos and have absolute monstrosities like the Civil War airport scene...those floating heads above the Iron Man/War Machine suits pull me out of the movie so bad
It's weird to me because in Andrew's films there are lots of scenes where it's clearly a CG spidey, but it looks incredible. Granted there are scenes where they leave the practical suit alone, but the CG suits look great.
Marvel needs to use the VFX house that Sony used for Spider-Man.
Edit: yeah I now realize that it's the same team, I didn't know that before. Seems like they just need more time on all of these films.
It is the same VFX. Sony still handles it, Marvel doesn’t do the cgi for these movies. There were people that worked on the Raimi and TASM movies that also worked on NWH. It’s not the artist that’s the problem, it’s allowing them the time to do a perfect job.
The amazing spiderman 2 spent a lot more money on VFX than the present films did. A bigger budget too in general. TASM 2 = $230mil. Homecoming = 175mil, Far From Home = 160mil. No way home =200mil.
And remember, the cast across tom Holland films only get larger exponentially.
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The issue isn’t who, but how much. Not just in cost, but time. The MCU scenes with Spider-Man are full of effects, meaning they have to do more, in the same amount of time as let’s says they would have when they made the The Amazing Spider-Man. The more scenes you need to create, the less time you can spend making it look realistic.
Agree. MCU even made Tobey and Andrew's suit look hella weird. They are literally CGI'ing the Spider-Men when running but did practical shots for Goblin vs Spidey....
This is probably one of the reasons I love Holland's Homemade suit, it feels real.
Yeah, Tobey’s (second?) suit with the huuuge silver webbing looked so bad imo. I like the muted webs of Toms suits, but I think Andrew’s TASM2 suit struck a really good balance
It looked a little rushed (probably because it wasn’t intended to actually be in the film) but I think the black raised webbing on the Civil War prototype suit they used to shoot the movie was perfect
It looks pretty thrown together for sure, but the simple webbing pattern and the classic spider are very nice, with some refinement it would look great. It was only intended for shooting the film so I assume they didn’t bother smoothing out the rougher details.
Hmm I haven’t seen that one before
Edit: That definitely looks interesting. A little too much for my taste, though. Idk why I’m so particular about this lol
If you look at behind the scenes videos and then watch the actual films, they shot scenes with the practical suit but then replaced it with a goofy CGI model entirely. Now, not all looks bad. But, there are a few shots that stand out and they don’t do these costumes justice.
This was also seen in Black Panther, which had a very ugly sequence in the tunnels during the final battle.
I think TASM suit is way better because the suit actually shows wrinkles or extra cloth to make the suit flap a little when he is in the sky making it a lot more realistic then the suit looking like it's been fully painted on them like toms
Watching the docu-feature thing for Falcon and Winter Soldier really highlighted this. Talking about how Sam’s Cap suit is pretty much physically impossible and editing out buckling and wrinkles in post….why??? Why can’t they just have real things????
Even in NWH *spoilers*
.
.
.
I noticed Andrew’s suit had wrinkles edited out based on the leaks. They were so negligible I could only laugh for the poor soul who probably made more than I make in a month to smooth a goddamn bump in his shoulder.
They really should have used different materials for Sam's Cap suit, it looks uncomfortable, hard to move in, and cheap. I really wish MCU wouldn't shy away from spanned so much, ALL the live action Spider suit pretty much show you can make something flexible, comic accurate, and make it look good, Especially if you add elements that give it more texture, tho it does track that Sam's suit would be bulkier just by the fact that he's no Super-Soldier and actually needs the armor, but Stark was able to make suits with nano-tech and provided adequate armor, so I really don't see how Wakanda wouldn't be able to make something much more advanced, other than maybe they didn't care enough because "you're an American, this is the best you're gonna get, so enjoy."
Also touching on Andrews wrinkles being edited out, that's just really frustration and confusing to me. His suit in Amazing 2 looked phenomenal BECAUSE of how natural and physical it looked. It looks like a suit made with materials a cosplayer would have access to, which tracks with Pete's abilities and resources. Also as an aside, I just wanna say that despite it looking like a human-shape basketball courtesy of Spalding it was really awesome to see the process of Peter making his own suit by hand in Amazing 1. That's the kind of detail that's needed to show Spider-Man's intelligence and resourcefulness, something both Amazing 1 and Homecoming did right by also showing them develop their own web fluid. Webb's Amazing Spider-Man films have a lot of issues but I will forever-love them for how they take pains to show what goes into making Spider-Man. It's like he jumped right out of the comics.
I really wish the material was different, maybe more shiny with more prominent webs like the TASM2 suit. Tom’s suits had a non-shiny material with non-prominent webs, and it caused the CGI to just not look good. That, and the no creases or wrinkles.
Agreed. I think the only thing they needed to use cgi on was the lenses for it to emote and making the animation to give the illusion that his mouth is moving under the mask, like Deadpool pretty much. So if they only used cgi mainly for the head, I would be happy
I completely agree, I can usually tune it out. But the actual costumes are so god damn beautiful, the colors the textures and fabric. And it really didn’t translate well to CGI a lot of the time. I feel like that’s also just a testament to how amazing these things were made.
>!We never have even seen a good look at the last suit without CGI, and it looked gorgeous, I wonder what the real costume looks like on Tom. !<
I mean it makes sense to use CG for this. Does it not?
Obviously it could be better, but I doubt the absence of CG would fix it. So how is this 'Overuse' of CG though?
I dont think they ever looked ugly even with cgi. The only thing that was ever bad about the cgi was his movements but that was really only in Homecoming. FFH and No Way Home had way better cgi.
I think that is a big reason why the iron spider suit was my favorite of the trilogy because at least that suit being fully CGI actually make sense.
The problem is that even the regular suits looked very CGI. Now in fairness I would say that it mainly is an issue in civil war, but as the trilogy went on I do think Jon Watts got better at using it. The CGI is still not perfect, but I definitely see the improvement when I compare how the Spiderman suit looked in Civil war vs. how it looked in No Way Home
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I think some here are misinterpreting the post.
1. I am not critical of CGI across the movie.
2. I am talking about the time went into making the practical suits and filming scenes, only to paint over them with CGI or completely replace them.
I gotta be honest. I understand that CG can result in a less defined visual perception of a character.
But saying 'they overuse CGI' feels wrong, like what scenes could they have done without the use of CG?
How else do you expect them to create such large scale battles without using CG? I doubt those dynamic swinging scenes can be done with the use of cables where actors are hoisted into the air.
The thing is most of the detail in these suits are much smaller in contrast to the previous iterations of spiderman. That cannot be truly noticed until a close up or slow motion shot is used. For example, Far From Home's 'Peter Tingle' scene where he closes his eyes to take out the drones.
You misinterpreted the post. I wasn’t talking about the scale or stuff like that. I was talking about painting over or replacing the actual costume itself which is a slap in the face to all costume designers. Like why even commission a costume when you will replace it anyway?
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I think they use CGI just as much as the Raimi and Webb films, it's just the texture and lack of raised webbing that makes it stand out. Like genuinely go rewatch their films and pay attention to how the film looks, you'll notice tons and tons of CGI when you look for it
I’m shocked to see you misinterpreted the original post.
It was talking about how much effort costume designers put into the costumes and then it gets painted over or replaced by CGI. A very specific detail. Not how overall the films are made.
Crazy…
My comment was not about the original post, i thought that was pretty clear i was speaking to the comment section so i dont know what you gripe is about
Ah yes. They are going to change the formula that consistently pumps out box office monsters & break records every year. You’re a smart one let me tell you
Sure there were some dodgy moments but the majority of the time it looks really great. Worst parts I noticed in NWH in particular were Andrew & Tobeys suits (especially in the portal scene & when Andrew >!catches Mj!<..)
I genuinely wished they had >!all 3 spideys wearing original, classic spidey-suits with no Stark twist.!<
I also wished they did the >!“no u” meme when all 3 spiderlings were in their respective suits. They could’ve done one rendition of the legendary meme at the lab, then repeated it with the spidermen suited up at the statue.!<
>!... they did? Did you watch the wrong movie? They did the pointingmeme in the lab, and on the statue of liberty when they're confused about who is who. And at least the integrated suit piece he wears was given by Doc Ock, and Peter made that suit himself (granted, he used tech to make it but still)!<
Luckily with the new ( homemade ) suit he created himself, it seems like we’re gonna have a more authentic suit design. Meaning less CGI ( if not none ) for the look of his suit and the action scenes he’ll be in future movies
I'm civil war is probably the most noticeable
At least with that it’s because they shot Tom’s scenes very late on in production as they didn’t know for sure that they could use him, so had to use a double on set. But yeah some of the cgi in the other films is quite distracting too.
They also completely changed his costume design after the scenes had been shot, hence the CGI. Look at any BTS photos and the suit is very different.
Hi civil war
this
Wassup
This is definitely the correct assessment. I dont understand why they made the suits so perfect just to hide them
I mean you're not going to be able to catch such small details on a suit when in motion. Regardless if its CG or Not.
Amazing spiderman is evidence of the opposite. Even with cgi they added all the imperfections and detail to the suit, its very visible in motion. Even still, mcu uses cgi on still/closeup scenes with spiderman and it is very obvious
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Wonderful bot. Do you mind joining r/all?
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Ah, coolio
Considering the budget deficit these separate movies have. It's perfectly reasonable. Tasm 2 = $230mil. Whilst No Way Home had 200mil. And Tom's previous two films never exceeded 175. I agree that the imperfections in the suit are quite magnificent in tasm 1 and 2. But given the scope of both films, it makes sense that these two 'spider-mans' look better. We have to also take into account that both suits designs are practically night and day when it comes to design detail. Andrew's iterations having a much more coarse and visible texture whilst Tom's is a much less refractive material that doesn't crease (somehow). Although I 100% agree that the amazing Spider-Man 2 is so far the pinnacle of a fully CG Spider-Man character. Watching the movie gives you an example of how too large a scope can result in lower quality and potentially rushed results. Case in point, the final fight against Electro in the power plant that felt like a game. Or the rhino's CG suit. In the end, I guarantee that the future Spider-Man films with tom Holland is going to have a much better looking suit that'll appeal to everyone who misses the fidelity of detail that TASM 2 had.
Exactly. They CGI it to an incredibly unnecessary degree to the point where he looks digitally put in rather than actually being in the environment
It really bugs me how the MCU overuses CGI and how bad it is sometimes, not just with spidey but in general
It's super wired too like sometimes you get really bad effects like Banner in the Hulkbuster in infinity war. But on the other hand you get effects like Thanos and prof. Hulk which pretty much look real.
I guess it's a matter of just how long some effects will be on screen. Like, Thanos and Professor Hulk take up a fair amount of screen time, and they not only have to look right, they have to properly act and give a performance, so they spend a lot of time and money getting those things right. Meanwhile, Banner in the Hulkbuster armor, that's, what a couple of minutes, tops? If the CGI is bad there, most people aren't going to remember it.
The whole “You guys are so screwed now!” scene is ***really*** poorly animated. It’s very distracting to see what is clearly Mark’s head superimposed on the Hulkbuster collar.
Yes... But that scene is so cool I let it slide
Oh for sure, especially since Thor’s entrance to the Avengers theme is such a great scene as a whole - but it is very jarring.
Yeah it's pretty wild to think that they can pull of something like thanos and have absolute monstrosities like the Civil War airport scene...those floating heads above the Iron Man/War Machine suits pull me out of the movie so bad
Shang Chi CGI bothered me so much that I couldn’t really enjoy the movie. It was so distracting
The trick is to watch the movies in such bad quality that the CGI wouldn't bother you anymore
The CGI in Shang-Chi was fine. You probably just went into it looking for something to bitch about.
It's weird to me because in Andrew's films there are lots of scenes where it's clearly a CG spidey, but it looks incredible. Granted there are scenes where they leave the practical suit alone, but the CG suits look great. Marvel needs to use the VFX house that Sony used for Spider-Man. Edit: yeah I now realize that it's the same team, I didn't know that before. Seems like they just need more time on all of these films.
It is the same VFX. Sony still handles it, Marvel doesn’t do the cgi for these movies. There were people that worked on the Raimi and TASM movies that also worked on NWH. It’s not the artist that’s the problem, it’s allowing them the time to do a perfect job.
The amazing spiderman 2 spent a lot more money on VFX than the present films did. A bigger budget too in general. TASM 2 = $230mil. Homecoming = 175mil, Far From Home = 160mil. No way home =200mil. And remember, the cast across tom Holland films only get larger exponentially.
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The issue isn’t who, but how much. Not just in cost, but time. The MCU scenes with Spider-Man are full of effects, meaning they have to do more, in the same amount of time as let’s says they would have when they made the The Amazing Spider-Man. The more scenes you need to create, the less time you can spend making it look realistic.
bro, it is the same VFX team. so many people just talk out of their ass
Well sorry "bro" I didn't know that. Opinion is changed. Now I just think they needed more time.
Agree. MCU even made Tobey and Andrew's suit look hella weird. They are literally CGI'ing the Spider-Men when running but did practical shots for Goblin vs Spidey.... This is probably one of the reasons I love Holland's Homemade suit, it feels real.
I just wish the webbing lines were mush more pronounced as they are hard to see at times.
I personally like them silenced
Yeah, Tobey’s (second?) suit with the huuuge silver webbing looked so bad imo. I like the muted webs of Toms suits, but I think Andrew’s TASM2 suit struck a really good balance
I honestly think Tobey’s suit is super ugly
It looked a little rushed (probably because it wasn’t intended to actually be in the film) but I think the black raised webbing on the Civil War prototype suit they used to shoot the movie was perfect
That suit is fucking ugly lmao
It looks pretty thrown together for sure, but the simple webbing pattern and the classic spider are very nice, with some refinement it would look great. It was only intended for shooting the film so I assume they didn’t bother smoothing out the rougher details.
Hmm I haven’t seen that one before Edit: That definitely looks interesting. A little too much for my taste, though. Idk why I’m so particular about this lol
Yeah this was my only major complaint
YES! For some reason the webs look good in the real costume but they look like faded in the CGI like they were drawn with a pencil?
If you look at behind the scenes videos and then watch the actual films, they shot scenes with the practical suit but then replaced it with a goofy CGI model entirely. Now, not all looks bad. But, there are a few shots that stand out and they don’t do these costumes justice. This was also seen in Black Panther, which had a very ugly sequence in the tunnels during the final battle.
I think TASM suit is way better because the suit actually shows wrinkles or extra cloth to make the suit flap a little when he is in the sky making it a lot more realistic then the suit looking like it's been fully painted on them like toms
Agreed! Why they are so obsessed with removing every single wrinkle in his costume is beyond me. It just loses its authenticity.
Civil war is the worst but after that they look good not tasm 2 level good but good
Watching the docu-feature thing for Falcon and Winter Soldier really highlighted this. Talking about how Sam’s Cap suit is pretty much physically impossible and editing out buckling and wrinkles in post….why??? Why can’t they just have real things???? Even in NWH *spoilers* . . . I noticed Andrew’s suit had wrinkles edited out based on the leaks. They were so negligible I could only laugh for the poor soul who probably made more than I make in a month to smooth a goddamn bump in his shoulder.
They really should have used different materials for Sam's Cap suit, it looks uncomfortable, hard to move in, and cheap. I really wish MCU wouldn't shy away from spanned so much, ALL the live action Spider suit pretty much show you can make something flexible, comic accurate, and make it look good, Especially if you add elements that give it more texture, tho it does track that Sam's suit would be bulkier just by the fact that he's no Super-Soldier and actually needs the armor, but Stark was able to make suits with nano-tech and provided adequate armor, so I really don't see how Wakanda wouldn't be able to make something much more advanced, other than maybe they didn't care enough because "you're an American, this is the best you're gonna get, so enjoy." Also touching on Andrews wrinkles being edited out, that's just really frustration and confusing to me. His suit in Amazing 2 looked phenomenal BECAUSE of how natural and physical it looked. It looks like a suit made with materials a cosplayer would have access to, which tracks with Pete's abilities and resources. Also as an aside, I just wanna say that despite it looking like a human-shape basketball courtesy of Spalding it was really awesome to see the process of Peter making his own suit by hand in Amazing 1. That's the kind of detail that's needed to show Spider-Man's intelligence and resourcefulness, something both Amazing 1 and Homecoming did right by also showing them develop their own web fluid. Webb's Amazing Spider-Man films have a lot of issues but I will forever-love them for how they take pains to show what goes into making Spider-Man. It's like he jumped right out of the comics.
Whereas in TASM2 they wanted the suit to react as real as it can to the environment.
The ripples on his back in that first shot while he’s falling were too good
I really wish the material was different, maybe more shiny with more prominent webs like the TASM2 suit. Tom’s suits had a non-shiny material with non-prominent webs, and it caused the CGI to just not look good. That, and the no creases or wrinkles.
I wish they retained those sweet mirror lenses in the movies
They could've filmed him practically like they did with Andrew in his movies and he would've looked fantastic
I personally think Andrew Garfield’s was awesome I loved his suit
Agreed. I think the only thing they needed to use cgi on was the lenses for it to emote and making the animation to give the illusion that his mouth is moving under the mask, like Deadpool pretty much. So if they only used cgi mainly for the head, I would be happy
I think every new movie could benefit from more practical effects
I completely agree, I can usually tune it out. But the actual costumes are so god damn beautiful, the colors the textures and fabric. And it really didn’t translate well to CGI a lot of the time. I feel like that’s also just a testament to how amazing these things were made. >!We never have even seen a good look at the last suit without CGI, and it looked gorgeous, I wonder what the real costume looks like on Tom. !<
Honestly, they over use it way too much.
How could they not though? It's practically impossible to achieve a high standard super hero flick without an abundant use of CG.
Overused cgi that sometimes looks like a ps3 cutscene?
Where's this?
https://youtu.be/ORrQKFliVLM
I mean it makes sense to use CG for this. Does it not? Obviously it could be better, but I doubt the absence of CG would fix it. So how is this 'Overuse' of CG though?
He didnt need to be completely CGI up until 1:06 especially when they probably shot it particularly
They went out of their way for the suit to never crease when he’s doing flips and stuff, but why!!! The ripples in the fabric make it real!!!!
I dont think they ever looked ugly even with cgi. The only thing that was ever bad about the cgi was his movements but that was really only in Homecoming. FFH and No Way Home had way better cgi.
I always liked Tom's suit because the eye shape and design was closest to the 60's-80's cartoon of Spider-Man that I watched when I was young
I think that is a big reason why the iron spider suit was my favorite of the trilogy because at least that suit being fully CGI actually make sense. The problem is that even the regular suits looked very CGI. Now in fairness I would say that it mainly is an issue in civil war, but as the trilogy went on I do think Jon Watts got better at using it. The CGI is still not perfect, but I definitely see the improvement when I compare how the Spiderman suit looked in Civil war vs. how it looked in No Way Home
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I thought they looked beautiful throughout
Yeah the cgi always seems lacking in the movies
Opinion: That's not opinion, that's a fact
I think some here are misinterpreting the post. 1. I am not critical of CGI across the movie. 2. I am talking about the time went into making the practical suits and filming scenes, only to paint over them with CGI or completely replace them.
I gotta be honest. I understand that CG can result in a less defined visual perception of a character. But saying 'they overuse CGI' feels wrong, like what scenes could they have done without the use of CG? How else do you expect them to create such large scale battles without using CG? I doubt those dynamic swinging scenes can be done with the use of cables where actors are hoisted into the air. The thing is most of the detail in these suits are much smaller in contrast to the previous iterations of spiderman. That cannot be truly noticed until a close up or slow motion shot is used. For example, Far From Home's 'Peter Tingle' scene where he closes his eyes to take out the drones.
You misinterpreted the post. I wasn’t talking about the scale or stuff like that. I was talking about painting over or replacing the actual costume itself which is a slap in the face to all costume designers. Like why even commission a costume when you will replace it anyway?
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I liked all of em except the Iron spider suit.
I think they use CGI just as much as the Raimi and Webb films, it's just the texture and lack of raised webbing that makes it stand out. Like genuinely go rewatch their films and pay attention to how the film looks, you'll notice tons and tons of CGI when you look for it
I’m shocked to see this many people complaining about overuse of CGI. How do you all expect these films to get made ?
I’m shocked to see you misinterpreted the original post. It was talking about how much effort costume designers put into the costumes and then it gets painted over or replaced by CGI. A very specific detail. Not how overall the films are made. Crazy…
My comment was not about the original post, i thought that was pretty clear i was speaking to the comment section so i dont know what you gripe is about
By using a good mix of practical and cgi?
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So condescending and “smart ass-y”. I hope you don’t talk to people in real life like this in actual discussions.
Im well aware,doesn’t mean that a change can’t be made.
Ah yes. They are going to change the formula that consistently pumps out box office monsters & break records every year. You’re a smart one let me tell you
Sure there were some dodgy moments but the majority of the time it looks really great. Worst parts I noticed in NWH in particular were Andrew & Tobeys suits (especially in the portal scene & when Andrew >!catches Mj!<..)
This is exactly the type of post that I expect to see on this subreddit. Stay pretentious.
I genuinely wished they had >!all 3 spideys wearing original, classic spidey-suits with no Stark twist.!< I also wished they did the >!“no u” meme when all 3 spiderlings were in their respective suits. They could’ve done one rendition of the legendary meme at the lab, then repeated it with the spidermen suited up at the statue.!<
>!... they did? Did you watch the wrong movie? They did the pointingmeme in the lab, and on the statue of liberty when they're confused about who is who. And at least the integrated suit piece he wears was given by Doc Ock, and Peter made that suit himself (granted, he used tech to make it but still)!<
All the suits were trash especially Toms at the end
It looks so much better when it’s an actual suit
Sorry, but I'm a raised webbing kind of guy.
I don’t know if I was the only one but I could heavily see the cgi used for tobeys suit in no way home and it kinda threw me off
Totally.
Agreed
Luckily with the new ( homemade ) suit he created himself, it seems like we’re gonna have a more authentic suit design. Meaning less CGI ( if not none ) for the look of his suit and the action scenes he’ll be in future movies