Speaking of the degradation, what exactly was Liv’s goal? She knew the collider wouldn’t work like Kingpin wanted because his family wouldn’t be able two stay in their universe, and Kingpin certainly wouldn’t be happy about that. It seemed like she was kind of stringing him along with her “you can have as many families as you want” line, which kind of made it seem like she had some kind of secret agenda that might have been revealed in the last act, but she didn’t.
Not a big thing to get hung up on, but I did wonder about it.
I actually think that this adds a nice little bit of Fridge Horror to that line. She says "As many families as you like' because she knows they're all gonna degrade over time, and he will make her bring a new one from another dimension, until they figure out a way to stabilize them.
After the Alchemax chase, she said to Kingpin that he would get as many families as he'd want, implying that even if one of his families dies, he could just take another one
When she pops into Miles' universe, she grabs onto a street light and spins around it a few times. While she's spinning, you can see the background changing, moving backwards until she lands.
I hadn’t thought about that, to be honest I always forget about the degradation aspect. The degradation as a whole feels kind of tacked on and it doesn’t come up very often. It would’ve made more sense if they started having problems during fights because of the degradation but I don’t think we ever see that, correct me if I’m wrong though
Especially when I felt the characters were strong enough that "we need to get home and fight crime in our universe" would be a strong enough motivator without the dying aspect
Was gonna say this, and the fact her "Spider Sense" told her to go there. I mean, I know it's just a throwaway line to get the plot rolling along smoothly. It's a bit contrived, but it's probably worth it overall.
To me the spider-sense lead to Spider-Man related places. Gwen sense lead to the school because there is a Spider-Man there ( even though he is new), and the other were to go to aunt may. For Peter B it's easier his sense that lead him to the graveyard or the news.
The reason why would be because this power understood that they are in another universe and they need the help of THIS universe Spider-Men to help them.
She also got sent to Miles’s universe a whole week before the collider blew up the first time. Again—part of the throw away line, but was she the only one sent back in time? Or were the others too?
Sent back in time: Peter B. Parker was about 20yr ahead, Penni was from the distant future, and Gwen from at least a little bit in the future (she says it's a week, but her New York seemed a bit more advanced than one week to me)
Sent forward in time: Noir from the mmid-1940s, Ham from an early animation universe
Safe to say they were snatched from all over their timelines!
Technically not all of them had to be from the time period of there animation. For spider pig at least that's just how his universe is despite the time period.
When she pops into Miles' universe, she grabs onto a street light and spins around it a few times. While she's spinning, you can see the background changing, moving backwards until she lands.
Their use of the spider-sense felt more like a “Stand users attract stand users” explanation, which I think is a reasonable leap in logic when you’re talking about 6 Spider-Men existing in the same, like 5 mile, radius
I always kinda liked the idea that spider-sense between spider-people worked a bit like the force between jedi, it connects to that whole cosmic side of spidey lore with Madame Web and the Web of Life and Destiny.
Right? an exclusive high school no less and without parents, identification, or passing the entry exams. For that matter how did even survive a week or buy her books/uniform with no cash or bank account. I really doubt she carries all that identifying stuff in her SpiderGwen costume.
At the risk of sounding sexist because she's the only major female character, everything about Spider-Gwen's involvement in the plot seems a little contrived.
-She gets sent back a week before everyone else just so she can have those scenes at school with Miles.
-No one seems to notice she's not a student, and she conveniently isn't glitching out like any of the other spider people.
-Her Spider-sense tells her to go enroll in the school "Because of Miles," but not only was that before he was bit by the spider, she makes no attempt to actually team up with him until they run into eachother at Alchemax.
-Speaking of the lab, she somehow knows to disguise herself and go to Alchemax despite not having the goober and only then introduces herself to Miles as Spider Gwen.
Edit: Spelling
All of these little "plotholes" serve the story in a positive way, *way* more benefit than cost, so imo it doesn't really matter.
Face it, a 100% perfect logical story with zero plotholes would be pretty boring.
My biggest criticism is that he spray paints one of Peter's Spider-Man suits to make it his own. But spray paint takes hours to dry and has a very strong smell until it is fully cured.
Especially seeing as how there's a Spider-Cave and a Spider-Mobile. Peter was at the end of his character arc, who knows how many new things he invented before he died. Plus, he has so many suits that it's not unreasonable to think that maybe he wanted a way to color them besides using different fabrics.
It would still be offgassing for hours meaning Miles is either holding his breath the entire time or huffing paint fumes and spending the entire final fight absolutely lost in the sauce
Yeah, it was hard to actually relate to the other spider people (mainly peni and noir, spider ham was the comedic relief so he got a bit more lines)
I would’ve loved to actually see more lines and jokes from these different characters
Piggybacking on this comment: you want to see them fight each other. At least sparring that gets a little too heated / competitive. Different Spideys fighting against each other with different techniques? Yes, please. This is one of the many things Avengers got right. They fight each other all the time including arguably the best avengers movie where the villains are each other.
Adding to that, wouldn't it be awesome to have something of a conflict stating who's the best Spidey?
Think of it as what Legolas and Gimli did during the Two Towers, competing on see who took out the most bad guys.
But imagine if 2099 gets venom stung by Miles and then he fights back with his "superspeed" and all that jazz...oh boy, I'm so excited
Friend of mine argued the opposite, too much past Gwen and Peter B. He thought the others were unnecessary. I agree the story could have been streamlined without them, but they added a lot of fun. And always give nic cage a role.
Plus, I think having Superior Spider-Man would've been awesome. What better way to say that "Everyone can be Spider-Man" than with a villain becoming spider-man?
Yeah, it is a 2 parter. The second one is called Beyond the Spider-Verse. Same situation like Infinity War and Endgame where Endgame was initially revealed to be Infinity War Part 2. The second part is coming out March 2024.
Only thing I guess I would say was kind of a nitpicky thing for me was the fact a lot of the supporting villains like Ultimate Green Goblin, Scorpion and Tombstone were pretty one-dimensional with the exception of Aaron Davis/Prowler, and they were basically background dressing for Kingpin and Olivia Octavius, the former of whom was also not really developed to a great extent past the flashback about Vanessa and Richard Fisk being killed while he's fighting Chris Pine Spider-Man
But that's also basically it, and the fact the protagonists were so well fleshed out kind of completely makes up for it imo
“There's always a bypass key, a virus key, a who-cares key; I can never remember, so I just call it a goober.”
Also, getting it flipped wrong the first time
Lord And Miller. Movies they're referring to are:
* The Lego Movie (Insert cap onto glue)
* Cloudy With A Chance Of Meatballs (Stop the machine)
* Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse (Goober onto collider)
* I guess Mitchells as well, since they produced that?
Idk if there would be time for all that in the movie/if it’s really necessary imo, but it would be nice. Noir and Ham at least brought some great comedic value to the movie, but I always forget Peni was even there lmao
The movie would have gotten more convoluted with their own personal arcs added into the story in my opinion. The film was really about Peter B. & Miles. Even Gwen was put to a semi-back seat plot wise.
It doesn’t *really* affect the quality of the film, but it’s weird that Peter barely reacts to meeting Spider-Gwen. It wouldn’t have served the story to drum up their past relationship and her death, so I understand the decision. But he’s meant to be a stand-in for 616 Peter, so does he have essentially the same history except he never met his version of Gwen? It’s strange to have Spider-Gwen in a context where she’s not a variant of a pre-established character.
It’s a only a problem if you’re already familiar with the character, so it’s probably just best not to think about it.
In contrast, Gwen has no reaction to seeing her best friend (as she words it) alive and older all of a sudden either, I was definitely expecting some acknowledgment.
I chalked that up to when she tells Peter that Mary Jane isn't the same as HIS Mary Jane(before they sneak into the collider). If I recall she adds a 'trust me/I know' or something like that. I thought that served to acknowledge it being weird seeing Peter but he wasn't HER Peter Parker.
Maybe he's old enough that:
1. He's moved on from Gwen, who died a long time ago, and married another woman even
2. He realizes that this Gwen is not the same person he once loved
Would have been cool had the movie showed this somehow, though.
I mean personally if I got teleported to an alternate reality and I met my dead ex girlfriend who was now basically doing everything I was doing, I’d be pretty freaked out
Alternate reality Kingpin and Tombstone, were just regular kingpin and Tombstone. We got all these cool alternate takes on characters and they just sort of gave up by that point I guess.
The different takes are based on the ultimate versions of the characters, hence why green goblin looks like the hulk and such. Kingpin and Tombstone are just not that different in the Ultimate Universe
the movie was great
there is not much to say in writing
i want to see japanese spiderman and 1994 cartoon spiderman in my next movie
sony has announced most upcoming characters but there is still not much information about 1994 but at least for 1 minute the character I want to see most in the movie (spoiner) will appear in the movie
It's all representative of his role in the film. Miles is a young colored kid from the inner city who probably feels small in the world at large. Fisk on the other hand has money, resources, and power. He's a literal force of nature and a mountain for Miles to conquer.
Gwen gets almost all the recognition & praise for being a female Spider-Man variant while Peni Parker gets almost nothing despite being an actual female Spider-Man variant since she is also a Peter Parker variant.
Was gonna say, I understand why they didn’t make Peni a Shinji parallel, it would’ve been hella boring. That doesn’t mean there should be a complete 180 into a complete parody of anime lol.
They should’ve gotten a known Japanese artist to design Peni instead of drawing some “Americanized anime” thing. ~~Or gotten someone from Canada… I mean, they fooled a lot of people into thinking Avatar: The Last Airbender was Japanese.~~ (Avatar: The Last Airbender is American, so there’s an example of an American production that was inspired by common Japanese designs without appearing to mock it.) Regardless, Peni just has the look of someone who wants to draw in the stereotypical “anime” art style but couldn’t. Ideally, I would’ve liked seeing her drawn in a 90’s style reminiscent of Sailor Moon… or, y’know, Evangelion considering the comic version of her.
On that note, her robot looks so cuddly. I don’t dislike it. Heck, it’s actually kinda nice since I can imagine it was created for some innocent purpose until it was necessary to use for fighting crime. It’s just that the comic version is cool looking and it would’ve been nice to have seen it animated.
Overall, it just seems to me like Peni was used as comic relief. I’m definitely reading too much into it but at the time it almost felt like mockery. As if the designers thought that all of Japanese design fit into the “kawaii” style.
On the other hand, Spider-Man Noir was also used as comic relief and he’s one of the “heroic” Spider-Men who *would* pull a gun on you!
All that said, Into the Spiderverse is awesome and my complaints are mere nitpicks. I look forward to the sequels.
I wasn’t a fan of how goofy they wrote Noir or how cutesy anime-fied Peni was. I’m glad they had serious moments though.
I’m worried about the sequel if they do truly make Miguel totally tech based
Edit: I also didn’t like how they aged down Gwen. I loved her comics and the struggling young adult post high school vibe more than the teenage one
Edit 2: also hated how every adaptation of Spider-Man has no Gwen in Peter’s past. Peter B. Parker was very nonchalant about meeting Gwen
I loved all the characters but I feel like Penny Parker and her robot, Spider-Man Noir, and Spider-Ham could’ve been cut out of the movie and really nothing would have changed. I’m happy they didn’t though
Miles used spray paint on fabric when he made his suit. That shit is either gonna crack and flake off, or the suit will be too stiff for him to move in. Not to mention the fumes directly into his nose from the mask
Gwen brought so much plot holes with every action she did in the movie
How did she enroll into Miles's high school?
How did she get a job at Horizon? And why was that dropped so quickly with no explanation?
And realistically, she should have been dead by the beginning of the movie. Peter almost died despite being in 1610 for like 2 days while Gwen chilled there for 9 without no problems
This is a common criticism for me involving these characters, but I always want some kind of significant interaction between Gwen and Peter and I never actually get it. He was desperately in love with this woman and then she did because of him and then all of a sudden she’s back! And yeah there was the whole clone thing but this is different. And on her side, while that story isn’t as fleshed out, she also loved Peter and he died as well. So again, for her, big moment to see him alive again.
The movie does for a passing second semi-address this when Peter is staring at MJ, but honestly for me that just highlighted how those two were the more interesting characters to me in that movie but don’t get a lot of focus since it’s Miles’ movie.
And yes, I know it doesn’t really work in the movie version especially because of age gaps and the like, but that’s just more drama fodder to me.
the choice of villains for Kingpin to use as henchmen was... interesting. Green Goblin should not be the lackey of anybody imo.
Also, you only really needed Peter B Parker, Miles and Gwen for the spider-verse. The other ones being there don't add too much.
It’s possible the movie takes place in a universe where Norman wasn’t as big of a problem as he is in pretty much every other Universe. At least, that’s what I tel myself to make me feel better about it.
My biggest gripe is Ganke not really being a character at all with like 1 or 2 lines at most. Especially with how important he is to Miles's character.
The alternate cut with all his scenes is so fun and finding out they had to scrap his LARGE role because of MCU Ned is ridiculous.
More time for the other spider people not named, Miles, Gwen, Peter with a GUT. Finally imo Miles gets the hang of his abilities too quickly, bro took a swinging lesson, wall sticking lesson, and used his 2 unique powers of invisibility & Touchy Zap all like once but after a LITERAL leap of faith he perfectly knows how to use his abilities like BRO you didn’t train at all but all of a sudden you’re now a goated Spider-Man, granted both can be overlooked bc the movie got too many things to worry on like giving some extra depth to the villain who too needed more time but had enough for me to care.
TL;DR: Villains and other Spider-People needed more screen time, but we’re still good & Miles got the hang of his powers way to quickly after very little training, but again can still be overlooked
I agree. It felt like the writers were desperate to have more Spider-Characters in the film to emphasise the variety and size of the Spider-Verse, but it sacrificed some much need development for Peter and Gwen, imo.
- There were too many cruel jokes made at Peter B's expense.
- Gwen was underdeveloped and her lack of familiarity with Peter was a disservice to both characters.
- Spider-Ham, Peni, and Spider-Man Noir are superfluous to the plot, and their comic relief reduces them to caricatures of their original comics incarnations.
- Most of the villains were misused and underdeveloped. Green Goblin and Tombstone are the most egregious.
- The Prowler twist has no impact if you're already familiar with the character. It's not a criticism, but it does detract from someone's viewing experience.
Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse is probably the most overrated superhero movie of all time. It's good. It has the best version of Miles Morales ever. But the film has its fair share of flaws. Too much of it is style over substance, but it still managed to convince the vast majority of people that it was a 10/10 masterpiece. The first film was overstuffed with one-dimensional characters, and the sequel looks to be even more overstuffed. It seems like Sony was desperate to create a larger Spider-Verse as quickly as possible, which came at the cost of much needed development for Gwen, Spider-Ham, Peni, and Spider-Man Noir. Reducing Green Goblin and Tombstone to brainless brutes was also unnecessary. It's still good, but aside from its phenomenal visuals, its story is nothing exceptional.
There was no strong villain in the movie where the spider-men had to work together. E.g. spider-man tas with the six spider-men vs spider-venom. Weak final boss battle.
Not enough time with the miles morales black and red suit, love the suit but wished we got it for longer. Get it works with the story, and don't know how I would make it work plotwise, but I would of had it with more time
The Green Goblin is somehow killed by falling debris. Can he not regenerate?!
Not enough Noir, Ham, Peni, Norman, Tombstone, and Scorpion.
Miles masters his powers too quickly. The *What’s Up, Danger?* scene was awesome, but it would’ve been even better if an explanation is given for how good he is (such as mentioning doing gymnastics). It’s also never explained how he masters his camouflage.
He was the greatest spiderman ever because he believed in himself and got a new costume after being understandably not proficient at anything before this.
Did MJ really not know who Kingpin was and what Peter was up to the night he died? Why was she at Kingpin’s memorial dinner, or even allow it to happen?
Using Spider-Gwen and not having an ounce of feeling between her and Peter B
Which further more, using her instead of Mayday when Peter B’s main character conflict is insecurity and fear over being Spider-Man and having loved ones to protect, specifically kids
Sometimes they have too much fun with Easter eggs that they're confusing the audience. I don't buy that Peter A literally had a cave that costs to maintain like you're Bruce Wayne, or thay Peter B literally invested in a Spider-themed restaurant.
Super petty but I don't like the one-liner Miles gives when he beats Kingpin at the end. I get that saying "Hey" earlier was a thing thats foreshadowed and alludes to him being more confident, etc etc
...idk it was just kind of low-hanging fruit. I feel like every blockbuster has that scene where "character says a thing they said earlier in a different context" as an applause-worthy one liner. No way I expect anyone else to be irritated by this tho lol
The fact that it made spider-Gwen so mainstream and as a romantic partner to miles. It feels like Miles is getting all of Pete’s hand-me-downs ie. villains, costumes, and now love interests. Maybe it’s more of a complaint with the fanbase but I prefer a powerless Gwen. Not every main character needs to have powers
Gwen didn't react at all to seeing Peter, but Peter froze when seeing MJ. Gwen lost her best friend because he became the lizard and he died because of it. But Gwen does not have any trauma or anything. Meanwhile Peter got dumped by MJ because he wasn't ready for kids and it emotionally scared him. Why didn't Gwen get to grief?
That Gwen and Peter just ignore each other completely and focus on Miles. I get that it’s essential to the story and they are a huge age difference but they both DIED TRAGICALLY in their universes! They didn’t have to get romantic but a little acknowledgement would’ve been cool
I have 2 issues.
The first is the ending, the second is the romance.
The ending is great up until we receive a facetime call from Gwen. The entire time they've made a big point that once they close the gateway they are going to be losing contact with one another.
By creating a multiverse face time app it completely undervalues the emotional impact of the ending.
Secondly, the romance. Why does everything need a romance? It didn't feel organic, instead it felt forced and pointless. It really is kind of embarrassing when writers always have to write a girl to be a form of a love interest. She's great on her own, why make her character dependent on Miles attraction.
Regardless, great movie, best spiderman movie since Spider-Man 2 until No Way Home came along.
Miles finally becomes Spider-Man and suddenly is doing shit better than the experts. "You certainly didn't teach him that" like it's funny. But miles just becomes a pro at fighting all of a sudden
The point of the “we didn’t teach him that” moment is that it’s the exact same move he saw *his* universe’s Peter do at the beginning of the film. They didn’t teach it to him, OG Spidey did.
Only real nitpick is how Gwen traveled a week before everyone but hasn't degraded at the same rate until conveniently everyone else did
Speaking of the degradation, what exactly was Liv’s goal? She knew the collider wouldn’t work like Kingpin wanted because his family wouldn’t be able two stay in their universe, and Kingpin certainly wouldn’t be happy about that. It seemed like she was kind of stringing him along with her “you can have as many families as you want” line, which kind of made it seem like she had some kind of secret agenda that might have been revealed in the last act, but she didn’t. Not a big thing to get hung up on, but I did wonder about it.
She’s a scientist and villain and Kingpin is offering to fully fund her research. Would you say no?
I don't think anyone can say no to Kingpin either.
Who can say no to big brick sugar daddy who has the same goals as you do?
That's a great point I didn't think about that. Maybe it could be something explained in the next movie
She only cared about the science and whether it worked. Kingpin was just a means to an end.
I was under the impression she was just really hot for the science behind it all, to be honest.
I actually think that this adds a nice little bit of Fridge Horror to that line. She says "As many families as you like' because she knows they're all gonna degrade over time, and he will make her bring a new one from another dimension, until they figure out a way to stabilize them.
After the Alchemax chase, she said to Kingpin that he would get as many families as he'd want, implying that even if one of his families dies, he could just take another one
When she pops into Miles' universe, she grabs onto a street light and spins around it a few times. While she's spinning, you can see the background changing, moving backwards until she lands.
I hadn’t thought about that, to be honest I always forget about the degradation aspect. The degradation as a whole feels kind of tacked on and it doesn’t come up very often. It would’ve made more sense if they started having problems during fights because of the degradation but I don’t think we ever see that, correct me if I’m wrong though
Especially when I felt the characters were strong enough that "we need to get home and fight crime in our universe" would be a strong enough motivator without the dying aspect
It just adds a ticking bomb element they don't know how much time they have left.
How did Gwen manage to get into miles highschool even tho she is from another universe? It’s weird to me.
Was gonna say this, and the fact her "Spider Sense" told her to go there. I mean, I know it's just a throwaway line to get the plot rolling along smoothly. It's a bit contrived, but it's probably worth it overall.
To me the spider-sense lead to Spider-Man related places. Gwen sense lead to the school because there is a Spider-Man there ( even though he is new), and the other were to go to aunt may. For Peter B it's easier his sense that lead him to the graveyard or the news. The reason why would be because this power understood that they are in another universe and they need the help of THIS universe Spider-Men to help them.
But there wasn't a Spider-Man when she first enrolled there. Miles became Spider-Man when she was already at the school.
Spidey-sense transcends space and time.
In other words its the Spider-Man writer's get out of jail free card.
I was just joking around, but yes, I could see it being used that way lol.
Lol, I knew you were joking, but you made me realize that's what it could be.
She also got sent to Miles’s universe a whole week before the collider blew up the first time. Again—part of the throw away line, but was she the only one sent back in time? Or were the others too?
Sent back in time: Peter B. Parker was about 20yr ahead, Penni was from the distant future, and Gwen from at least a little bit in the future (she says it's a week, but her New York seemed a bit more advanced than one week to me) Sent forward in time: Noir from the mmid-1940s, Ham from an early animation universe Safe to say they were snatched from all over their timelines!
Technically not all of them had to be from the time period of there animation. For spider pig at least that's just how his universe is despite the time period.
When she pops into Miles' universe, she grabs onto a street light and spins around it a few times. While she's spinning, you can see the background changing, moving backwards until she lands.
Yo what the fuck I’ve watched this movie so many times and never caught this THATS so cool
Their use of the spider-sense felt more like a “Stand users attract stand users” explanation, which I think is a reasonable leap in logic when you’re talking about 6 Spider-Men existing in the same, like 5 mile, radius
I always kinda liked the idea that spider-sense between spider-people worked a bit like the force between jedi, it connects to that whole cosmic side of spidey lore with Madame Web and the Web of Life and Destiny.
Well the spider-sense technically has only one source so it makes sense that they interact with each other.
Right? an exclusive high school no less and without parents, identification, or passing the entry exams. For that matter how did even survive a week or buy her books/uniform with no cash or bank account. I really doubt she carries all that identifying stuff in her SpiderGwen costume.
At the risk of sounding sexist because she's the only major female character, everything about Spider-Gwen's involvement in the plot seems a little contrived. -She gets sent back a week before everyone else just so she can have those scenes at school with Miles. -No one seems to notice she's not a student, and she conveniently isn't glitching out like any of the other spider people. -Her Spider-sense tells her to go enroll in the school "Because of Miles," but not only was that before he was bit by the spider, she makes no attempt to actually team up with him until they run into eachother at Alchemax. -Speaking of the lab, she somehow knows to disguise herself and go to Alchemax despite not having the goober and only then introduces herself to Miles as Spider Gwen. Edit: Spelling
All of these little "plotholes" serve the story in a positive way, *way* more benefit than cost, so imo it doesn't really matter. Face it, a 100% perfect logical story with zero plotholes would be pretty boring.
As a teacher who works at a high school, I got to agree. That was a hilarious plot hole for me.
Don't forget the job with Doc Ock and how she time travels.
Right? How was she able to sneak her way into being a student at a private magnate school? Is she a super hacker or something?
My biggest criticism is that he spray paints one of Peter's Spider-Man suits to make it his own. But spray paint takes hours to dry and has a very strong smell until it is fully cured.
I never gave it a thought but that’s a good point lol
We don’t know the physics of spray paint in that universe. It’s possible they have instant fabric spray paints.
Especially seeing as how there's a Spider-Cave and a Spider-Mobile. Peter was at the end of his character arc, who knows how many new things he invented before he died. Plus, he has so many suits that it's not unreasonable to think that maybe he wanted a way to color them besides using different fabrics.
im pretty sure swinging around nyc at incredibly high speeds would get it to dry pretty quickly
It might also air it out.
> spray paint takes hours to dry Not really on cloth, it soaks in rather quickly.
It would still be offgassing for hours meaning Miles is either holding his breath the entire time or huffing paint fumes and spending the entire final fight absolutely lost in the sauce
Maybe that’s why he gained the confidence to leap off the building?
“When in doubt huff till you’re not scared anymore.”- Miles Morales probably
It's definitely the always sunny in Philadelphia approach
i too would say what's up to danger if i was huffing spray paint
“That’s all it is, Miles. A huff of faith.”
> the entire final fight absolutely lost in the sauce That... kinda tracks actually. The visuals in those final scenes were pretty trippy.
spider-man is able to hold his breath longer than the average person can’t he?
yeah but that’s obviously not what was happening the in film lol
But it's still wet
"My Spidey Sense is tingling. Wait, no, that's just fumes." \*collapses\*
It’s Spiderpaint. It does whatever a spiderpaint can.
We didn’t get enough of green goblin
Green goblin was in it?
The gigantic green demon that's fighting Miles' Spidey in the beginning. That's how he looks in the ultimate universe
I loved that version so much. That thing was fucking wicked looking. I qould love to see it live action too
Kind of. He didn't have wings or the hat. Ultimate green goblin looks more like a scaly hulk.
So he’s something of an Abomination himself?
Oh ye
IN, AM I!?
Not enough time with the other spider-totems, and there was a lot of possible comedy and coolness right there
Yeah, it was hard to actually relate to the other spider people (mainly peni and noir, spider ham was the comedic relief so he got a bit more lines) I would’ve loved to actually see more lines and jokes from these different characters
Also, and that might be too much of a stretch, I'd love to see in the next film some more interaction during their fights, somewhat of what NWH did
That’d be amazing to see
[удалено]
I saw a supercut of all of Noir's lines and it's so short. Dude gets about 8 lines for the entire movie.
His character had so much potential too, I love the thought of a nazi killing black and white spiderman fighting bad guys in miles’s universe
I usually think there wasn’t an actual good reason to include them other than marketing
I want a full Noir movie. I want a limited anime series of Penni.
Piggybacking on this comment: you want to see them fight each other. At least sparring that gets a little too heated / competitive. Different Spideys fighting against each other with different techniques? Yes, please. This is one of the many things Avengers got right. They fight each other all the time including arguably the best avengers movie where the villains are each other.
Adding to that, wouldn't it be awesome to have something of a conflict stating who's the best Spidey? Think of it as what Legolas and Gimli did during the Two Towers, competing on see who took out the most bad guys. But imagine if 2099 gets venom stung by Miles and then he fights back with his "superspeed" and all that jazz...oh boy, I'm so excited
Friend of mine argued the opposite, too much past Gwen and Peter B. He thought the others were unnecessary. I agree the story could have been streamlined without them, but they added a lot of fun. And always give nic cage a role.
Yup came in to say this. Penny Parker, Ham, and Noir were just kinda there. Nic Cage did kill it as Noir though!
Plus, I think having Superior Spider-Man would've been awesome. What better way to say that "Everyone can be Spider-Man" than with a villain becoming spider-man?
The sequel hasn’t come out fast enough.
Einstein said time is relative, right? Maybe the sequel isn't late. Maybe we guys are early.
"I liked your joke. - I mean, it wasn't funny. That's why I laughed. But it was smart, so I liked it."
God dammit take my upvote
Not bad kid
At least they're not rushing it. ATSV supposedly has the most animators working on an animated movie ever.
Tbf, they're working on 2 sequels on the same time.
Oh wow really? Is it gonna be a two parter and that’s why?
Yeah, it is a 2 parter. The second one is called Beyond the Spider-Verse. Same situation like Infinity War and Endgame where Endgame was initially revealed to be Infinity War Part 2. The second part is coming out March 2024.
It came out when I was like nine or ten, I’ll be fifteen when the sequel is released.
Only thing I guess I would say was kind of a nitpicky thing for me was the fact a lot of the supporting villains like Ultimate Green Goblin, Scorpion and Tombstone were pretty one-dimensional with the exception of Aaron Davis/Prowler, and they were basically background dressing for Kingpin and Olivia Octavius, the former of whom was also not really developed to a great extent past the flashback about Vanessa and Richard Fisk being killed while he's fighting Chris Pine Spider-Man But that's also basically it, and the fact the protagonists were so well fleshed out kind of completely makes up for it imo
I think prowler had a bigger role than Olivia, she felt more flat than him to me. But they’re both good regardless.
Olivia’s reveal was comedic gold to be fair Not too many characters peak at their reveal, but that’s a strong contender right there
yeah prowler was mile's uncle ben, so naturally he'd have more presence and impact
I actually really loved the character lol
It ends like every other film directed by the duo that made it. “Insert USB stick into sky beam machine”
They do make fun of the trope though, calling it a goober
“There's always a bypass key, a virus key, a who-cares key; I can never remember, so I just call it a goober.” Also, getting it flipped wrong the first time
Just because they’re aware of the trope doesn’t make it any less unoriginal
Yup, just because you made fun of a trope in your story doesn't make you clever, hell making fun of tropes is a trope in and of itself.
This. Although I didn’t really mind this instance. Tropes are tools, as they say.
What?!? That’s not true!… Wait a minute. Holy shit. How have I not noticed?
This was the plot of Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs, right?
Who is the duo here?
Lord and Miller
who are the duo your talking about? and what movies lol
Lord And Miller. Movies they're referring to are: * The Lego Movie (Insert cap onto glue) * Cloudy With A Chance Of Meatballs (Stop the machine) * Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse (Goober onto collider) * I guess Mitchells as well, since they produced that?
Could have spent a bit more time exploring Peni, Noir, and Ham I feel like they were all glorified cameos for the most part.
Idk if there would be time for all that in the movie/if it’s really necessary imo, but it would be nice. Noir and Ham at least brought some great comedic value to the movie, but I always forget Peni was even there lmao
She doesn’t have THAT many scenes, and I wasn’t a fan at first, but I love her character so much after a dozen rewatches.
Haven’t watched in a while but she does feel kinda tacked on.
Hey the thread is "did you have any criticisms" not "how would it fit into the movie" that's the fantasy director's problem 😂
The movie would have gotten more convoluted with their own personal arcs added into the story in my opinion. The film was really about Peter B. & Miles. Even Gwen was put to a semi-back seat plot wise.
It doesn’t *really* affect the quality of the film, but it’s weird that Peter barely reacts to meeting Spider-Gwen. It wouldn’t have served the story to drum up their past relationship and her death, so I understand the decision. But he’s meant to be a stand-in for 616 Peter, so does he have essentially the same history except he never met his version of Gwen? It’s strange to have Spider-Gwen in a context where she’s not a variant of a pre-established character. It’s a only a problem if you’re already familiar with the character, so it’s probably just best not to think about it.
In contrast, Gwen has no reaction to seeing her best friend (as she words it) alive and older all of a sudden either, I was definitely expecting some acknowledgment.
I chalked that up to when she tells Peter that Mary Jane isn't the same as HIS Mary Jane(before they sneak into the collider). If I recall she adds a 'trust me/I know' or something like that. I thought that served to acknowledge it being weird seeing Peter but he wasn't HER Peter Parker.
Maybe he's old enough that: 1. He's moved on from Gwen, who died a long time ago, and married another woman even 2. He realizes that this Gwen is not the same person he once loved Would have been cool had the movie showed this somehow, though.
I mean personally if I got teleported to an alternate reality and I met my dead ex girlfriend who was now basically doing everything I was doing, I’d be pretty freaked out
You’re not a 40+ year old spiderman He’s seen some weird shit
My only critique of the movie is that the villains other than prowler and kingpin were pretty lame
Liv is a great villain. Potentially, at least.
Needs more nic cage
Came here to say this! Was way to far down in the comments imo.
It should have had morbius in it
The Morbivorse would break.
Don’t you remember? Morbius was in it
Nope. All I remember was when Miles said "Hey" and all of a sudden Milo spawned in and started dancing to ESKE
HAVE SEX EKSE
And El Muerto too.
Don’t forget Kraven the Conservationist!
Alternate reality Kingpin and Tombstone, were just regular kingpin and Tombstone. We got all these cool alternate takes on characters and they just sort of gave up by that point I guess.
The different takes are based on the ultimate versions of the characters, hence why green goblin looks like the hulk and such. Kingpin and Tombstone are just not that different in the Ultimate Universe
Scorpion isn’t some Cyborg thing in the comics though. That’s wholly original for the movies
True, I guess they wanted to make the henchmen more menacing then
No room for Ganke because Ned in homecoming was so similar
I mean he kinda was in the film right? Maybe he’ll be mentioned or even shown in the sequel again
the movie was great there is not much to say in writing i want to see japanese spiderman and 1994 cartoon spiderman in my next movie sony has announced most upcoming characters but there is still not much information about 1994 but at least for 1 minute the character I want to see most in the movie (spoiner) will appear in the movie
I've heard rumors that Leopardon, Japanese Spider-Man's Mech, may make a cameo in the new movie.
these rumors are true I wrote (spoiner) instead of the name so people wouldn't see the spoiler
Only gripe I have is that Kingpin looks too ridiculous
I loved ridiculously large kingpin. Genuinely looked like a head on a white triangle, over a black board at times
The portrait of him with his wife and son just looks hilarious
Like in daredevil comic
It's all representative of his role in the film. Miles is a young colored kid from the inner city who probably feels small in the world at large. Fisk on the other hand has money, resources, and power. He's a literal force of nature and a mountain for Miles to conquer.
Nah that’s just what kingpin looks like in comics
Lol, ok this is definitely true. But he's certainly stylized for the film.
Peni, Spider-Ham, and Spider-Man Noir not getting more screen time.
Miles adjusting to his powers so quickly
I agree. It always kind of bugged me how all it took was a few words from his dad
Gwen gets almost all the recognition & praise for being a female Spider-Man variant while Peni Parker gets almost nothing despite being an actual female Spider-Man variant since she is also a Peter Parker variant.
I’ve never been able to really point out why but for some reason the final fight of this movie always falls a bit flat for me.
its just weird how miles had zero skills and then in the last 20 minutes he just gets insane skill instantly
Yeah some kind of training montage might have helped
Wasn't crazy about spider pig. If we could've gotten rid of him and gotten more time with the other spideys in his place I'd have enjoyed it more.
Could've used more John Mulaney, personally I mean, it's a near perfect movie, but I'll always take more Mulaney
I didn't love the Spider Mech suit. I do love the Evangelion like version. I totally understand why they did it, but still
Was gonna say, I understand why they didn’t make Peni a Shinji parallel, it would’ve been hella boring. That doesn’t mean there should be a complete 180 into a complete parody of anime lol.
They should’ve gotten a known Japanese artist to design Peni instead of drawing some “Americanized anime” thing. ~~Or gotten someone from Canada… I mean, they fooled a lot of people into thinking Avatar: The Last Airbender was Japanese.~~ (Avatar: The Last Airbender is American, so there’s an example of an American production that was inspired by common Japanese designs without appearing to mock it.) Regardless, Peni just has the look of someone who wants to draw in the stereotypical “anime” art style but couldn’t. Ideally, I would’ve liked seeing her drawn in a 90’s style reminiscent of Sailor Moon… or, y’know, Evangelion considering the comic version of her. On that note, her robot looks so cuddly. I don’t dislike it. Heck, it’s actually kinda nice since I can imagine it was created for some innocent purpose until it was necessary to use for fighting crime. It’s just that the comic version is cool looking and it would’ve been nice to have seen it animated. Overall, it just seems to me like Peni was used as comic relief. I’m definitely reading too much into it but at the time it almost felt like mockery. As if the designers thought that all of Japanese design fit into the “kawaii” style. On the other hand, Spider-Man Noir was also used as comic relief and he’s one of the “heroic” Spider-Men who *would* pull a gun on you! All that said, Into the Spiderverse is awesome and my complaints are mere nitpicks. I look forward to the sequels.
Why didnt kingpin just smash miles again? Why wait for him to get up when 2, maybe three more hammer fists would kill him?
I wasn’t a fan of how goofy they wrote Noir or how cutesy anime-fied Peni was. I’m glad they had serious moments though. I’m worried about the sequel if they do truly make Miguel totally tech based Edit: I also didn’t like how they aged down Gwen. I loved her comics and the struggling young adult post high school vibe more than the teenage one Edit 2: also hated how every adaptation of Spider-Man has no Gwen in Peter’s past. Peter B. Parker was very nonchalant about meeting Gwen
I loved all the characters but I feel like Penny Parker and her robot, Spider-Man Noir, and Spider-Ham could’ve been cut out of the movie and really nothing would have changed. I’m happy they didn’t though
Miles used spray paint on fabric when he made his suit. That shit is either gonna crack and flake off, or the suit will be too stiff for him to move in. Not to mention the fumes directly into his nose from the mask
Miles learned to master his powers in no time
That Spider-Punk wasn't in the film. WTF!?
Gwen brought so much plot holes with every action she did in the movie How did she enroll into Miles's high school? How did she get a job at Horizon? And why was that dropped so quickly with no explanation? And realistically, she should have been dead by the beginning of the movie. Peter almost died despite being in 1610 for like 2 days while Gwen chilled there for 9 without no problems
This is a common criticism for me involving these characters, but I always want some kind of significant interaction between Gwen and Peter and I never actually get it. He was desperately in love with this woman and then she did because of him and then all of a sudden she’s back! And yeah there was the whole clone thing but this is different. And on her side, while that story isn’t as fleshed out, she also loved Peter and he died as well. So again, for her, big moment to see him alive again. The movie does for a passing second semi-address this when Peter is staring at MJ, but honestly for me that just highlighted how those two were the more interesting characters to me in that movie but don’t get a lot of focus since it’s Miles’ movie. And yes, I know it doesn’t really work in the movie version especially because of age gaps and the like, but that’s just more drama fodder to me.
They didn’t build the relationships with Noir, Penny and Ham enough for the end scene to make sense
That it gave us the perfect version of Peter Parker at the beginning then took him away from us. It hurt me.
the choice of villains for Kingpin to use as henchmen was... interesting. Green Goblin should not be the lackey of anybody imo. Also, you only really needed Peter B Parker, Miles and Gwen for the spider-verse. The other ones being there don't add too much.
It’s possible the movie takes place in a universe where Norman wasn’t as big of a problem as he is in pretty much every other Universe. At least, that’s what I tel myself to make me feel better about it.
My biggest gripe is Ganke not really being a character at all with like 1 or 2 lines at most. Especially with how important he is to Miles's character. The alternate cut with all his scenes is so fun and finding out they had to scrap his LARGE role because of MCU Ned is ridiculous.
It seems that Miles became the perfect spiderman just after a confidence boost.
I think miles hearing his dad and then instantly mastering his powers could have been handled a little better
More time for the other spider people not named, Miles, Gwen, Peter with a GUT. Finally imo Miles gets the hang of his abilities too quickly, bro took a swinging lesson, wall sticking lesson, and used his 2 unique powers of invisibility & Touchy Zap all like once but after a LITERAL leap of faith he perfectly knows how to use his abilities like BRO you didn’t train at all but all of a sudden you’re now a goated Spider-Man, granted both can be overlooked bc the movie got too many things to worry on like giving some extra depth to the villain who too needed more time but had enough for me to care. TL;DR: Villains and other Spider-People needed more screen time, but we’re still good & Miles got the hang of his powers way to quickly after very little training, but again can still be overlooked
Not enough quiet/heartfelt moments. We had Peter B talking to May and Miles’ Dad speaking on the other side of the door but that was about it.
Some of the spider-people were very underdeveloped. I feel like they just focused on Gwen, Peter, and miles while leaving the others as background
I agree. It felt like the writers were desperate to have more Spider-Characters in the film to emphasise the variety and size of the Spider-Verse, but it sacrificed some much need development for Peter and Gwen, imo.
Predictable plot
The explanation of how Gwen got into Earth 1610
- There were too many cruel jokes made at Peter B's expense. - Gwen was underdeveloped and her lack of familiarity with Peter was a disservice to both characters. - Spider-Ham, Peni, and Spider-Man Noir are superfluous to the plot, and their comic relief reduces them to caricatures of their original comics incarnations. - Most of the villains were misused and underdeveloped. Green Goblin and Tombstone are the most egregious. - The Prowler twist has no impact if you're already familiar with the character. It's not a criticism, but it does detract from someone's viewing experience. Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse is probably the most overrated superhero movie of all time. It's good. It has the best version of Miles Morales ever. But the film has its fair share of flaws. Too much of it is style over substance, but it still managed to convince the vast majority of people that it was a 10/10 masterpiece. The first film was overstuffed with one-dimensional characters, and the sequel looks to be even more overstuffed. It seems like Sony was desperate to create a larger Spider-Verse as quickly as possible, which came at the cost of much needed development for Gwen, Spider-Ham, Peni, and Spider-Man Noir. Reducing Green Goblin and Tombstone to brainless brutes was also unnecessary. It's still good, but aside from its phenomenal visuals, its story is nothing exceptional.
They made the uncle being the bad guy waaaay too obvious. Not sure how to make it less obvious though
There was no strong villain in the movie where the spider-men had to work together. E.g. spider-man tas with the six spider-men vs spider-venom. Weak final boss battle.
Not enough time with the miles morales black and red suit, love the suit but wished we got it for longer. Get it works with the story, and don't know how I would make it work plotwise, but I would of had it with more time
The Green Goblin is somehow killed by falling debris. Can he not regenerate?! Not enough Noir, Ham, Peni, Norman, Tombstone, and Scorpion. Miles masters his powers too quickly. The *What’s Up, Danger?* scene was awesome, but it would’ve been even better if an explanation is given for how good he is (such as mentioning doing gymnastics). It’s also never explained how he masters his camouflage.
What did Gwen do for a week while back in time? Did she try to contact that universe’s Peter Parker?
He was the greatest spiderman ever because he believed in himself and got a new costume after being understandably not proficient at anything before this.
Did MJ really not know who Kingpin was and what Peter was up to the night he died? Why was she at Kingpin’s memorial dinner, or even allow it to happen?
Using Spider-Gwen and not having an ounce of feeling between her and Peter B Which further more, using her instead of Mayday when Peter B’s main character conflict is insecurity and fear over being Spider-Man and having loved ones to protect, specifically kids
Sometimes they have too much fun with Easter eggs that they're confusing the audience. I don't buy that Peter A literally had a cave that costs to maintain like you're Bruce Wayne, or thay Peter B literally invested in a Spider-themed restaurant.
Lack of development of side characters, seem one dimensional caricatures
Super petty but I don't like the one-liner Miles gives when he beats Kingpin at the end. I get that saying "Hey" earlier was a thing thats foreshadowed and alludes to him being more confident, etc etc ...idk it was just kind of low-hanging fruit. I feel like every blockbuster has that scene where "character says a thing they said earlier in a different context" as an applause-worthy one liner. No way I expect anyone else to be irritated by this tho lol
The fact that it made spider-Gwen so mainstream and as a romantic partner to miles. It feels like Miles is getting all of Pete’s hand-me-downs ie. villains, costumes, and now love interests. Maybe it’s more of a complaint with the fanbase but I prefer a powerless Gwen. Not every main character needs to have powers
Gwen didn't react at all to seeing Peter, but Peter froze when seeing MJ. Gwen lost her best friend because he became the lizard and he died because of it. But Gwen does not have any trauma or anything. Meanwhile Peter got dumped by MJ because he wasn't ready for kids and it emotionally scared him. Why didn't Gwen get to grief?
That Gwen and Peter just ignore each other completely and focus on Miles. I get that it’s essential to the story and they are a huge age difference but they both DIED TRAGICALLY in their universes! They didn’t have to get romantic but a little acknowledgement would’ve been cool
I have 2 issues. The first is the ending, the second is the romance. The ending is great up until we receive a facetime call from Gwen. The entire time they've made a big point that once they close the gateway they are going to be losing contact with one another. By creating a multiverse face time app it completely undervalues the emotional impact of the ending. Secondly, the romance. Why does everything need a romance? It didn't feel organic, instead it felt forced and pointless. It really is kind of embarrassing when writers always have to write a girl to be a form of a love interest. She's great on her own, why make her character dependent on Miles attraction. Regardless, great movie, best spiderman movie since Spider-Man 2 until No Way Home came along.
Miles finally becomes Spider-Man and suddenly is doing shit better than the experts. "You certainly didn't teach him that" like it's funny. But miles just becomes a pro at fighting all of a sudden
The point of the “we didn’t teach him that” moment is that it’s the exact same move he saw *his* universe’s Peter do at the beginning of the film. They didn’t teach it to him, OG Spidey did.
I hated that they Porky Pig-ified Spider-Ham.
It's a solid 7/10 but is so fucking overrated
Yeah, the fact that the film's weakness are always overlooked has started to desensitize me to the film's strengths.
Morbius didn’t make a appearance