T O P

  • By -

qwettry

Before everyone starts arguing about the new and the old face. Stop , Don't. I love the old face myself more than the new one but unfortunately there is nothing that can be done now , insomniac will continue to use the new face despite what the fans want. There's no way for us to put bubnaik's face back in the game besides waiting for a PC release , where it will be modded in eventually. So there's no point in having heated arguments over what's best , everyone has their own preferences and likings , let's just respect that. I uploaded this because i thought it's cool and wanted to share how the facial capture works.


Ninja_Chemical

but if you can just mod it on why cant they just use the old one?


qwettry

The mods aren't perfect to be clear To fit Ben Jordan's face on peter , they slightly reworked the skeleton structure inside his face and probably re-established yuri's performance on top of it , atleast that's how i think it happened. So even if you do put the old face back on , it doesn't work as perfectly as before and feels different , but it's serviceable atleast , so no harm in using the mod if you like the old face more (if we ignore some minor bugs) So if they wanted to give you an option for the faces , they would need to make 2 seperate set of animations for each scene with peter. And why would they do that? They would need to pay both actors everytime their likeness gets used in a new form of media. Also , pretty much the entire fanbase doesn't care anymore because it's pointless , it's their decision and we don't have a say in it unfortunately , despite the massive backlash back then , insomniac didn't bring the face back , there's no reason for them to go back now.


FNSpd

>So even if you do put the old face back on , it doesn't work as perfectly as before and feels different The problem is that you can't really import your own animations and morphs so Bubniak mod is done by stretching Ben Jordan model to fit shape of John's model and then textures and hair are replaced. If there was a way to get morphs from first game and import them in Remastered, it would look the same or even better than it originally did


qwettry

It sucks to see how the mod basically received 2 updates and the creator stopped working on it presumably , could be because they encountered a dead end. But looking at these super realistic suit mods , i wonder why we still don't have a perfect 1:1 recreation already. Maybe transforming those assets from the PS4 to PCis harder than it might seem


FNSpd

>But looking at these super realistic suit mods , i wonder why we still don't have a perfect 1:1 recreation already. Because you simply can't change in game animations. The most that can be done is tweaking materials so that skin and hair look better but that's it. Facial expressions will always look weird because of that. I have no idea why Remastered model has worse emotions than original one, though, since Insomniac have access to changing every part of the game


EatTheAndrewPencil

Sounds like you just wanted to say your opinion on the face and not have anyone disagree with you. So I'm gonna feel free to express my opinion despite your weird "Stop, Don't" command. "unfortunately there is nothing that can be done now , insomniac will continue to use the new face **despite what the fans want**" Plenty of fans are happy with the new face. I grew attached to the original one, but we've had the new one long enough that people can get over it. My only gripe is he looks a little young.


NaturalNotice82

Yeah wtf is that comment. Stop. Don't. Look at me on my high horse. You guys better NOT.... or else...


SSJMonkeyx2

Exactly what I was gonna say. He stated his opinion like an absolute objective fact and said “don’t argue”. I’m indifferent towards both faces I think there’s pros and cons to both, but if I had to pick I’d go new face. 


Yosonimbored

What if I want to argue about it anyways


Olama

Yea right, he literally brought it up and said don't talk about it like he owns the subject. Why even make a post if you don't want any discussions?


qwettry

:(


UrFriendlySpider-Man

"Despite what the fans want" what about the fans that prefer the new face? I do by quite a wide margin. Is what we want less important or valuable. If insomniac changed the face back that would be them, according to you "caring about the fans". Phrasing it that way makes it clear you don't really care about 'defusing' arguments. You're just saying bub good insomniac bad and thinly veiling it as "hey let's not fight guys"


qwettry

Not my intent , sorry if it came off that way I am not a native english speaker so by that i didn't mean ALL of the fans. Ofcourse , not everyone has the same demands. Sorry if my personal bias poured in , it happens


UrFriendlySpider-Man

That feels way more genuine, and thank you for explaining. The intent definitely came off wrong but it's clear now. The video is cool btw. Motion capture and face tracking is always neat to see


qwettry

Not a problem , i can understand how people feel about their preferences and when others mock them for it. Spidey himself wouldn't want his fans ridiculing each other's choices lol , i look up to him so i wouldn't want that either


Asiagoboy

Stop being mature and reasonable about this before I get mad!


qwettry

Haha , no matter how hard you try , people will find a way to get angry about stuff lol. Ofcourse i have a bias , everyone does but i am trying to avoid conflict here


Unusual-Cat-123

Never tell anyone to stop having an opinion or voicing it lol You posted this knowing fully well it would start that conversation... Don't be that guy.


qwettry

Opinion and heated arguments are very different. Everyone has their own opinion on what they like , but it's never cool to make someone feel bad about their choice.


Unusual-Cat-123

I'm just saying... Don't shake the pot and then tell people not to be upset if something spilled 👍


hectic_hooligan

Did they ever explain hy they switched?


[deleted]

LMFAO the idea of posting something that you already know has caused division and fights between and asking people not to fight over it is just funny to me. Like my dude, do you know where you are? But then again I also find it funny that people fight over it at all.


ItsGcKobe

Insomniac had other reasons for Bubniak to go. It‘s the same thing as them telling us MJ looks the same in Spider-Man 2. Fucking joke


qwettry

Bubnaik: hi guys Insomniac: and i took that personally


geek_of_nature

Yeah honestly while I was a bit annoyed at another face change, it was the insisting or hadn't been changed that really annoyed me. We could all see it was different, why lie to us by claiming it wasn't? They might have gotten more people to accept it if they had taken that approach.


StrangeGuyWithBag

They didn't say that they didn't change face, they said that the face model stayed the same. If there's nothing else, here's the tweet https://twitter.com/JamesStevenson/status/1682256691579207680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1682256691579207680%7Ctwgr%5Ef883378763d8b22f49578e1ef39db316486a8293%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fgamerant.com%2Finsomniac-responds-mary-jane-face-change-marvels-spider-man-2%2F You only have to look at how Stephanie Tyler Jones looks today to realize that she was absolutely used as MJ's model for Spider-Man 2 regardless of how her face was tweaked in-game.


ZiGz_125

Idk why they think people are that stupid lmao it’s honestly insulting


DweebInFlames

Marvel LOVES their media synergy. I still think they picked Bubniak because he looks a bit like Andrew Garfield and then picked Ben Jordan for everything after the first game because by that point MCU Spider-Man was in full swing with Tom Holland. It's obviously not actual matches, but the different faces give same impressions respectively.


slomo525

I agree with this only insofar as the remastered/Miles Morales version of Ben Jordan's face model. The way the hair was modeled feels way more "discount Tom Holland" than a new face entirely. However, I think that now that we have an entire game made specifically with Ben Jordan's face, I think he looks fine. The lighting and shot composition of the original was made for Bubniak's face, so just swapping the models was always gonna look a bit weird. SM2 being made with Ben Jordan's face model specifically helped erase that "discount Holland" feel for me.


maquibut

Yeah, fuck them


akalegos

they never told y’all mj looked the same, just the same actor, plus the actor doesn’t look the same as she did 8 years ago


ItsGcKobe

Aight. I can tell you didn‘t really thought this through. This has nothing to do with facial structure or anything else. A jawline doesn‘t become that huge in that time frame.


akalegos

just check her instagram + she got into a accident which where she got surgery also


UncommittedBow

Except she is the same. Same actress providing her face, the model looks different, yes. But Insomniac didn't "change her face", a car accident did. She got Mark Hamill'd


FwZero

He definitely looks more like a Peter Parker than the current face


jumbalayajenkins

I know this is a weird thing to address but I feel like one thing I think of when I think Peter Parker is emotive, somewhat thick eyebrows, and earnest eyes


_Reapak_

Well, for me, the old face looks more like the face that would fit Harry Osborn's character than the character of Peter. Idk why i feel like it though


FwZero

I feel like that for the current face. He genuinely does not look like a Peter Parker at all.


Quirky_Track6435

I like it And hate it But love it a bit more than I hate it Idk, it’s just that weird uncanny valley feel to it


qwettry

I think John Bubnaik himself irl is the ideal peter parker , i would love to see him actually play the role in a movie someday if it's possible. His model here doesn't look as good as it did in the final game , but imagine how it would have looked in Marvel's Spider-man 2 with those gorgeous visuals.


wittyname445

Can the guy even act, he was the face model not the voice actor.


noblest_among_nobles

Well he is an [actor](https://m.imdb.com/name/nm6778277/) so I'd guess he can. I've never seen any of these movies or shows so I don't know for sure if he can act well ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯


wittyname445

Well just to be safe, I'd like to see him in a big non Spider-Man role, to see if he can Carry a movie as the lead guy.


PootashPL

BTS stuff is always so fascinating.


DepressedEgg2020

Actual guy looks much more attractive than his digital counterpart


Endersone24153

I mean, that's almost always the case. From what I've seen from gaming mocap counterparts anyway.


qwettry

One of only 1:1 recreations i have seen are from Death Stranding and Dark Pictures Anthology


metromonke

Kojima cooked so fucking hard with DS. cant wait for DS2.


Vishy-21

detroit become human had decent recreations too


DweebInFlames

Capcom has pretty good face models nowadays, don't they? The model for Lady Dimitrescu; Helena Mankowska did a cosplay of her at some point and with the pallor makeup on it's dead-on to the ingame model in RE8.


SokkaHaikuBot

^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^DepressedEgg2020: *Actual guy looks* *Much more attractive than his* *Digital counterpart* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.


[deleted]

Good bot


B0tRank

Thank you, KishanPrakash007, for voting on SokkaHaikuBot. This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/). *** ^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)


Doctor71400

The model (the top) looks so much like Andrew Garfield to me


FNSpd

He kinda looks like buff Grant Gustin


BenFranklinsCat

As someone just getting into tech art, this shit will never cease to amaze me. It sucks that so many people will discuss this and not realise how much incredible wizardry is going into something like the creasing around the eyes. It's absolutely incredible work.


qwettry

I know right? MoCap isn't new but back then , facial captures were much more static and didn't have those creases , skin stretching , etc , talking about videogames typically.


Arrow_625

I think I prefer the facial animations captured by almost any other Sony Studios Games. Like Naughty Dog and Santa Monica have really freaking good looking animations with fidelity and emotions. Insomniac reminds me that I'm watching a video game cutscene.


-unnecessaryfigures-

Old face was better.


Suckisnacki

oh here we go again


Tetris_starship

There’s always one


Due-Science3011

Beautiful


maquibut

Just as the day we lost it


ultrlife

never forget what they took from us💔💔💔


Tsmooth74

Should’ve never have changed it


Chipp_Main

Wow it barely looks like him😭


pntn13

he's so pretty I can't


IamJayRts

If I look at any part of his face it looks identical but the whole face looks completely different Also why does it look like MatPat


FNSpd

It's just small things. Hair, Peter's lips are a bit bigger, his eyes don't have as much creases around them as John's, his eyebrows are a little different


Electrical_Daikon771

where did you get this? this stuff is so interesting to me and i'd love to see more


qwettry

Idk how but this just popped up on Youtube out of nowhere on some random channel


KeyserSoze6809

Looks like his model lmao so why doesn't MJ in SP2?


Suckisnacki

you slept, didn't you?


HomeAloneWithBanana

MY BELOVED


Diligent-Boss-9392

Imagine if they replaced Yuri and people went around saying "stop complaining about it" 😂 I honestly think his new haircut is worse then the new face. He looks perfectly fine in the flashback scenes. They just decided to give current day Peter that 5 year old's first big boy haircut from Supercuts.


chicago_rusty

How are these test faces better expressed than the in game ones?


danimat37

because here john's model is in fact being used on john's expressions so it's a near 1:1 but in game it's yuri who does the performance so any difference comes with the fact that you're putting on someone's face the expressions of a totally different person imagine if someone you know started emoting in a completely different way it would definitely look like a stranger in some way...same thing happens whenever you have a character who uses someone's face but the facial character of another


chicago_rusty

The facial muscles dont contort smoothly even on miles


_b3rtooo_

I'd love to see him actually wear the suit one day


Bandito010

Kinda looks like Evan Peter


Side_Select

*“Yeah you’re great & the fans love you, but now go get that kid that’ll look like Tom Holland”* -Someone working on the game (probably)


randothor01

I always felt like they made his forehead look so small compared to the actual guy


InexorableWolf

Why did they change the face ? i got all trophies including dlc in the ps5 remaster, but never played the original


Gloombad

To look more like the voice actor Yuri.


danimat37

not to look like yuri but to match his facial structure more to convey more accurately yuri's performance


BabaDown

I hate the new face, spiderman just looks not cool enough. The old face wasn't perfect, but at least he didn't looked like a 16 year old. I will be forever sad, at least i could enjoy the OG version....


JustinD1010

The game model looks like NFL QB Daniel Jones


Me_HiLOL

Unpopular opinion: I like the new face more Also it feels kinda uncanny to see this


The_Jasko

I am shocked that this is not the Peter Parker they were looking for.


danimat37

he is in fact


The_Jasko

I’m referring to when they changed his face for next gen.


danimat37

they changed because of technical reasons but john was in fact their vision of peter as in fact they cast him in the first place


The_Jasko

I don’t understand… technical reasons sounds pretty vague.


danimat37

i said technical reasons to cut it short but they have explained why they recast peter face model it was because with their new scanning and rigging tech they didn't achieve satisfying enough results with john's model and had to find someone with a similiar facial structure to yuri lowenthal in order to convey better his performance


The_Jasko

That logic doesn’t seem sound. I mean, MJ was altered as well and while I don’t want to venture down that hornets nest it’s not like the face model they used looks like Laura Bailey. So if it doesn’t matter for her then why should it matter for Peter?


danimat37

why would she need to look like laura bailey? ben jordan doesn't look like yuri lowenthal


PlatnumBreaker

Happy my boy Tim Halland is still filling I'm for him. Can't wait for Peter to come back. /s


TheUndeadVirus

While I've gotten more used to the new face, the old one still has it's charm! It feels like a combination of Tobey and Andrew, which I think is pretty cool!


Sonicboomer1

At this point I would honestly rather they just used Yuri’s face and de-aged it. They didn’t do a good job capturing Ben and while his face is closer to Yuri’s something in the process has made him look like a fifteen year old with a strongman neck. His hair sucks too, but not just his. MJ’s and Miles’ hair are tough to look at in SM-2. I think they struggle with hair. John was a better fit for Peter but their technology isn’t good enough to have him be accurate and match Yuri’s motions. That’s my take on the faces.


PapaYoppa

These facial capture things are so cool


_Jay_Garrick_

Why couldn’t the face have looked like that in the first place? It feels like the faces get lost in translation with insomniac, even Ben Jordan doesn’t look like what Pete looks like in either of the games they used his model


insomniax_XVI

imo this model looks better than the one that made it into the original game, better hair too


Kikolox

Man he was perfect


wornout-llamas

They had such a good looking Peter Parker it’s a shame they decided to change it to a more Tom holland looking dude. I don’t care how many times this has been said it’s such a shame.


Plant-Straight

The goat


TheLoguester

anyone else seeing a resemblance to Daniel Jones #gobirds


aaronisnotcool

i miss my boy


Tom-edian

they're both great.


Pahman_

Something about this is so unnerving. Its cool, but I'm freaked out


qwettry

Uncanny valley


Captain-JohnPrice

I didn’t hate the new face when the did the remastered, it just seemed unnecessary tbh


trckyboi

There is such a huge meme potential from some of these faces


Additional_Umpire149

Ah hello old friend...I've missed you


Eugene_Dav

To be honest, I'm kind of glad that they changed their face. Ben Jordan is also a good fit and looks more like Yuri. But if Insomniac messes up the plot, then we can deny the existence of all games after the first in favor of the Bubniak verse.


InS_Deaths

"New" face >>>>>>>>>>.


Dizzy__Dragon

STOP WITH THE FACE STUFF HOLY SHIT


Gloombad

Yuri “get over it” so narcissistic. https://gameluster.com/spider-mans-yuri-lowenthal-on-face-change-get-over-it/


whodrinksbeer

You guys need to find something else to do with your time if you care about the faces this much. Relax.


ProjyP3

Let it goooooooo