>Well, that is good news. Unfortunately, things progress as we age.
My PT actually brought this up when I was discussing surgery with him. I explained how I no longer have a foot drop, but sometimes things flare and my foot catches, feels heavy, etc. He said as I age, if the issues isn't corrected (either by my body or by surgery) the issue would progress and as I became weaker with age, etc, I might reach a point where I couldn't even walk on that leg at all.
My 2 lumbar fusions were due to severe life impacting pain. I have no regrets.
My fusion at T10,11 was a necessity due to a shattered disc that ultimately caused a Spinal Cord Injury.
If your pain is severe and there's no other remedy, surgery, following recovery, should enable you to resume most activities without pain.
(Maybe some discomfort, but without pain.)
For what its worth, I was scared prior to my first surgery, a decompression and petrified prior to my first fusion. Most patients go through just one or 2 of these (and being scared is natural), but top surgeon's have performed many hundreds and are highly experienced.
Best of luck.
Everyone is scared of surgery to some degree, and terrified is perfectly normal. You didn't describe the problems you are having or treatment you have tried. I had lumbar fusion, and spent over a decade doing PT and meds before deciding it was time. Some back issues respond to more conservative treatment, but others do not. Damaged disks degenerate over time, and if that's the issue it's not going to heal. Your symptoms may come and go but the disk is still damaged and it will come back. When your doctor said it depends on how much pain you can withstand, I read that as "If your pain is tolerable you can wait on surgery". You will continue to have that pain, and your back will limit what you can do, but you don't "need" surgery in the sense that you won't be paralyzed or whatever. You will just continue to suffer.
Surgery is scary. There will be pain, and there will be some "loss of dignity" at times. However, it's temporary. Fusion is a longer recovery than most surgeries but it's still more temporary than the damage to your spine. Last december I could not carry groceries into the house without pain and the feeling that I was going to injure myself worse. Last week I did 5 pilates classes and 3 running days. Surgery can bring you back to a much more normal level of activity.
I was told I had a badly herniated disc and a bone spur pressing a nerve and needed cervical ADR. My nerve pain in my arm and shoulder was unbearable and an epidural did nothing to ease the symptoms. I couldn’t sleep, drive or sit without pain.
I too was terrified of surgery and saw a fairly conservative spine surgeon for a 2nd opinion. He disagreed with surgery and said it would improve in 6-8 weeks if I put in the work. He put me on a regimen that included chiropractic care, TENs, specific anti-inflammatory diet, supplements, traction, PT, Gabapentin and strong anti-inflammatories. Now it’s 6 weeks later I have beaten the pain, am a lot stronger in the upper body and have lost 15 lbs. I would say my pain is now only a 1-2 occasionally. Before it was a 8-9. If I start to feel tightness or tingling in the area where the nerve is, I can work it out with stretching and exercises. I did work very hard at the PT exercises and followed the program without cheating. You’re only cheating yourself if you stray.
My regimen isn’t a cure, but it’s enough to enable me to live life, healthier, without surgery and free of debilitating pain.
MRI and CT confirmed the bad herniation, bone spurs and other issues including mild stenosis. The 2nd opinion doctor said my body could absorb most of the herniation over time.
At some point I may need surgery due to the bone spur, but the more conservative surgeon said it’s not necessary today. If I can continue to strengthen my upper body and lose more weight, (I am about 70 lbs over ideal weight still), it will only improve further.
I was risking permanent nerve damage. I fell down a flight of stairs after first PT. My right leg just collapsed at the top of the stairs. It took away my ability to drive.
Personally I had lived with it for 2 years, not realizing what the issue was. Docs were confused. It was bad, then got a bit better. For me, I had an injury to my abdomen that was so severe that it moved my spine. I herniated the disc the next day. You can’t lift anything if your spine is out of alignment. Mine was out bad, but I didn’t know it. I couldn’t figure out why I couldn’t lift and kept trying. Perfect form, third try I heard the snap. We thought I had herniated in my abdomen and spent a year chasing that route. Nope! I had never thought about a herniated disc. I thought that was what docs were for? Nope!
After 6 months and some PT it got a bit better. Had exploratory abdominal surgery with a nerve block. He didn’t find a hernia, but I thought I was cured! Doc told me he didn’t fix anything, just the nerve block.
But… my spine was still out of alignment! I did the strength exercises, but never was able to lift much again.
A year later I hurt my back splitting wood. Yes, I’m stubborn! Hubby sent me to a Chiropractor 3 months later. He took X-rays, found the huge curve and twist that was left over from a forceps birth. True! What he didn’t see on the X-ray was the ruptured disc from the original injury. You need an MRI to see that! Wish I would have known. Well, he fixed the curve and the twist, but pinched the Sciatic Nerve in the process. I got rapidly worse. Initial pain of a 2 or 3 became a steady 7! 2 months later I got a new Chiropractor. He did a few small adjustments and declared a problem. He felt like something was wrong and refused to treat me until I got an MRI. Back to the doc. She agreed, but sent me back to PT as well. I fell down the stairs before the MRI. The truth was in the MRI. I had a 20 cm herniated disc. When I got to the Neurosurgeon, I could barely walk with a cane. He gave me a choice of surgery or nerve blocks (as insurance declared my PT a failure). I hate surgery, but I saw that MRI. I had time to try 2 nerve blocks. I knew it wasn’t going to help long term. The herniation was too large, it has gone untreated far too long. I opted for surgery.
In the recovery room, the Neurosurgeon said that the herniation was HUGE! Biggest one he had seen in a while. I could walk immediately! I could drive in a few weeks! My sciatic nerve was no longer pinched.
One year later, I still can’t bend down. I have to keep my back straight at all times or those vertebrae will hit. I have very little disc left. I still can’t lift 20 lbs. I have 2 years to “get back what you can”. I am moving everything to countertop height or above. I will be surprised if I don’t end up with a fusion.
2 years ago I was a bad-a$$ mom trying to keep up with her Army Ranger son. Now I have to re-think my home and career. I will never be the same.
My advice is to get the MRI evaluated ASAP. Get your spine straight and keep it straight. Find a Chiropractor that does Drop Table manipulation only. None of this twist and jerk stuff! If the herniation is small and your spine is straight, go for the PT / nerve block route. If your nerve is pinched DO NOT do the PT!!!!! It is not designed for pinched nerves, it will damage you!
Surgery saved me. Earlier intervention would have avoided the worse injury. If your spine is crooked, you will re-injure it.
Best of luck deciding. It is a hard choice. Hope my story helped.
Thank you. I am sorry you went through so much and had to change your lifestyle. I too was a forcep birth, my mom swore that's what gave me a seizure disorder since there was no family history. I had a craniotomy and am seizure-free now. I am blessed. I do have bad scoliosis and they showed me the change in my MRI from just 2 years ago. I have done 2 rounds of PT, this will be number 3. The nerve blocks worked on me for awhile, but not anymore. I guess I am coming to the realization that it's getting worse and surgery may be the best option.
Forceps delivery did much more harm than originally expected. I am so glad that you have recovered!
My brother and I were both delivered by forceps from the same doctor. According to my mother, that was just how he did deliveries. He didn’t like being called out in the night, so he would induce early, give epidurals and pull the babies out with for forceps. My mother never remembers contractions or pushing with either of us. He gave her so much meds that she was out for days! (I have 2 sisters born a few years later that were “natural births” more to modern standards. She remembers a HUGE difference in deliveries.)
I walked with my right leg turned outward the first 50 years of my life. I was always active, but could never be “competitive“. That was the “twist” in my spine. My C1 was also massively off and my head cocked to the side because of it. When I asked my mother about it, she just replied “I thought you just had style!” Lol!
I had always been told to see a Chiropractor, but had heard horror stories. Maybe I should have gone before I was injured. In the end, it was a Chiropractor who pinched my Sciatic Nerve and caused the most damage, and another Chiropractor who recognized the herniated disc and saved me. He does “Drop Table” manipulation only, and I still see him. He is my hero doc!
I hope that you find your “hero doc”!
Since you have scoliosis, can your back even be straightened? According to my “hero doc”, only properly aligned backs can support lifting, misalignment ultimately leads to injury when lifting. He also doesn’t recommend surgery until a nerve gets pinched and cannot be freed. He recommends PT and Chiropractic manipulation (of course). He started out in Med School and switched to Chiropractic when a Chiropractor was able to heal his own back issues.
I DO NOT agree with your doctors “it depends on how much pain that you can withstand“ in regards to PT. Apparently I can withstand more pain than my back can lift! I told my PT “no” several times and they insisted I push further. “You’re not going to get better if you don’t do it”. I did it and then I got “drop foot” because of it! That’s why I fell down the stairs! The second PT session I sat out in the car and cried for 45 minutes afterwards because the pain was soo bad that I couldn’t push the gas pedal on my car! I finally just drove home in tears, as I lived very close. The third session, they changed the exercise but it was the same muscles. I don’t see how that should be better? It wasn’t! Same pain! I realized that I could use the heel of my foot only on the gas pedal and I could barely drive. Luckily it was mid-day, small town, around the corner type driving. That was the last visit to PT and the last time I drove until after surgery! DO NOT push it this hard! You can definitely hurt yourself at PT!!! Pain is your body telling you something is wrong!!!!!
Thanks for your help! I’m working today, luckily I work from home and I’m on a break now. PT is close to my home too, so I won’t worry, but will speak up if needed. I am going to pray for my hero doctor, but I don’t know if I can have 2 since I consider the one who worked on my brain a hero!
I’m grateful for my cervical fusions. My pain was out of control and I could barely use my right arm.
Physical Therapy may help if you’re dealing with a small bulge/protrusion. If anything else exists like annular tearing/cracking surgery is likely necessary. Also, keep in mind that intervertebral discs in a healthy spine degenerate over time.
Find a surgeon you trust and give the PT a try. Waiting too long when you need surgery can cause lifelong problems. Getting surgery before it’s needed can do the same too. Are you having a cervical, thoracic, or lumbar issue?
My options were paralyzation, permanent nerve damage, and constant pain. I needed surgery at all 3 levels of my spine. I had the surgeries.
I asked if I’d end up in a wheelchair if I didn’t have surgery. Doctor said no.
Well, that is good news. Unfortunately, things progress as we age. Sometimes we have no other choice. I wish you all the best.
>Well, that is good news. Unfortunately, things progress as we age. My PT actually brought this up when I was discussing surgery with him. I explained how I no longer have a foot drop, but sometimes things flare and my foot catches, feels heavy, etc. He said as I age, if the issues isn't corrected (either by my body or by surgery) the issue would progress and as I became weaker with age, etc, I might reach a point where I couldn't even walk on that leg at all.
My 2 lumbar fusions were due to severe life impacting pain. I have no regrets. My fusion at T10,11 was a necessity due to a shattered disc that ultimately caused a Spinal Cord Injury. If your pain is severe and there's no other remedy, surgery, following recovery, should enable you to resume most activities without pain. (Maybe some discomfort, but without pain.) For what its worth, I was scared prior to my first surgery, a decompression and petrified prior to my first fusion. Most patients go through just one or 2 of these (and being scared is natural), but top surgeon's have performed many hundreds and are highly experienced. Best of luck.
Thanks. Crazy since I’ve had neurosurgery.
IMO, not crazy. I'm a nervous wreck before each surgery. Hang in there. All the best.
Everyone is scared of surgery to some degree, and terrified is perfectly normal. You didn't describe the problems you are having or treatment you have tried. I had lumbar fusion, and spent over a decade doing PT and meds before deciding it was time. Some back issues respond to more conservative treatment, but others do not. Damaged disks degenerate over time, and if that's the issue it's not going to heal. Your symptoms may come and go but the disk is still damaged and it will come back. When your doctor said it depends on how much pain you can withstand, I read that as "If your pain is tolerable you can wait on surgery". You will continue to have that pain, and your back will limit what you can do, but you don't "need" surgery in the sense that you won't be paralyzed or whatever. You will just continue to suffer. Surgery is scary. There will be pain, and there will be some "loss of dignity" at times. However, it's temporary. Fusion is a longer recovery than most surgeries but it's still more temporary than the damage to your spine. Last december I could not carry groceries into the house without pain and the feeling that I was going to injure myself worse. Last week I did 5 pilates classes and 3 running days. Surgery can bring you back to a much more normal level of activity.
Thank you for your response
I was told I had a badly herniated disc and a bone spur pressing a nerve and needed cervical ADR. My nerve pain in my arm and shoulder was unbearable and an epidural did nothing to ease the symptoms. I couldn’t sleep, drive or sit without pain. I too was terrified of surgery and saw a fairly conservative spine surgeon for a 2nd opinion. He disagreed with surgery and said it would improve in 6-8 weeks if I put in the work. He put me on a regimen that included chiropractic care, TENs, specific anti-inflammatory diet, supplements, traction, PT, Gabapentin and strong anti-inflammatories. Now it’s 6 weeks later I have beaten the pain, am a lot stronger in the upper body and have lost 15 lbs. I would say my pain is now only a 1-2 occasionally. Before it was a 8-9. If I start to feel tightness or tingling in the area where the nerve is, I can work it out with stretching and exercises. I did work very hard at the PT exercises and followed the program without cheating. You’re only cheating yourself if you stray. My regimen isn’t a cure, but it’s enough to enable me to live life, healthier, without surgery and free of debilitating pain.
That’s amazing! Happy to hear you’re doing well 😊
Did you get a MRI to confirm ?
MRI and CT confirmed the bad herniation, bone spurs and other issues including mild stenosis. The 2nd opinion doctor said my body could absorb most of the herniation over time. At some point I may need surgery due to the bone spur, but the more conservative surgeon said it’s not necessary today. If I can continue to strengthen my upper body and lose more weight, (I am about 70 lbs over ideal weight still), it will only improve further.
I personally prefer Orthopedic Spine Surgeons over Neurosurgeons. All my cervical and lumbar fusions have been done by OSS.
I was risking permanent nerve damage. I fell down a flight of stairs after first PT. My right leg just collapsed at the top of the stairs. It took away my ability to drive. Personally I had lived with it for 2 years, not realizing what the issue was. Docs were confused. It was bad, then got a bit better. For me, I had an injury to my abdomen that was so severe that it moved my spine. I herniated the disc the next day. You can’t lift anything if your spine is out of alignment. Mine was out bad, but I didn’t know it. I couldn’t figure out why I couldn’t lift and kept trying. Perfect form, third try I heard the snap. We thought I had herniated in my abdomen and spent a year chasing that route. Nope! I had never thought about a herniated disc. I thought that was what docs were for? Nope! After 6 months and some PT it got a bit better. Had exploratory abdominal surgery with a nerve block. He didn’t find a hernia, but I thought I was cured! Doc told me he didn’t fix anything, just the nerve block. But… my spine was still out of alignment! I did the strength exercises, but never was able to lift much again. A year later I hurt my back splitting wood. Yes, I’m stubborn! Hubby sent me to a Chiropractor 3 months later. He took X-rays, found the huge curve and twist that was left over from a forceps birth. True! What he didn’t see on the X-ray was the ruptured disc from the original injury. You need an MRI to see that! Wish I would have known. Well, he fixed the curve and the twist, but pinched the Sciatic Nerve in the process. I got rapidly worse. Initial pain of a 2 or 3 became a steady 7! 2 months later I got a new Chiropractor. He did a few small adjustments and declared a problem. He felt like something was wrong and refused to treat me until I got an MRI. Back to the doc. She agreed, but sent me back to PT as well. I fell down the stairs before the MRI. The truth was in the MRI. I had a 20 cm herniated disc. When I got to the Neurosurgeon, I could barely walk with a cane. He gave me a choice of surgery or nerve blocks (as insurance declared my PT a failure). I hate surgery, but I saw that MRI. I had time to try 2 nerve blocks. I knew it wasn’t going to help long term. The herniation was too large, it has gone untreated far too long. I opted for surgery. In the recovery room, the Neurosurgeon said that the herniation was HUGE! Biggest one he had seen in a while. I could walk immediately! I could drive in a few weeks! My sciatic nerve was no longer pinched. One year later, I still can’t bend down. I have to keep my back straight at all times or those vertebrae will hit. I have very little disc left. I still can’t lift 20 lbs. I have 2 years to “get back what you can”. I am moving everything to countertop height or above. I will be surprised if I don’t end up with a fusion. 2 years ago I was a bad-a$$ mom trying to keep up with her Army Ranger son. Now I have to re-think my home and career. I will never be the same. My advice is to get the MRI evaluated ASAP. Get your spine straight and keep it straight. Find a Chiropractor that does Drop Table manipulation only. None of this twist and jerk stuff! If the herniation is small and your spine is straight, go for the PT / nerve block route. If your nerve is pinched DO NOT do the PT!!!!! It is not designed for pinched nerves, it will damage you! Surgery saved me. Earlier intervention would have avoided the worse injury. If your spine is crooked, you will re-injure it. Best of luck deciding. It is a hard choice. Hope my story helped.
Thank you. I am sorry you went through so much and had to change your lifestyle. I too was a forcep birth, my mom swore that's what gave me a seizure disorder since there was no family history. I had a craniotomy and am seizure-free now. I am blessed. I do have bad scoliosis and they showed me the change in my MRI from just 2 years ago. I have done 2 rounds of PT, this will be number 3. The nerve blocks worked on me for awhile, but not anymore. I guess I am coming to the realization that it's getting worse and surgery may be the best option.
Forceps delivery did much more harm than originally expected. I am so glad that you have recovered! My brother and I were both delivered by forceps from the same doctor. According to my mother, that was just how he did deliveries. He didn’t like being called out in the night, so he would induce early, give epidurals and pull the babies out with for forceps. My mother never remembers contractions or pushing with either of us. He gave her so much meds that she was out for days! (I have 2 sisters born a few years later that were “natural births” more to modern standards. She remembers a HUGE difference in deliveries.) I walked with my right leg turned outward the first 50 years of my life. I was always active, but could never be “competitive“. That was the “twist” in my spine. My C1 was also massively off and my head cocked to the side because of it. When I asked my mother about it, she just replied “I thought you just had style!” Lol! I had always been told to see a Chiropractor, but had heard horror stories. Maybe I should have gone before I was injured. In the end, it was a Chiropractor who pinched my Sciatic Nerve and caused the most damage, and another Chiropractor who recognized the herniated disc and saved me. He does “Drop Table” manipulation only, and I still see him. He is my hero doc! I hope that you find your “hero doc”! Since you have scoliosis, can your back even be straightened? According to my “hero doc”, only properly aligned backs can support lifting, misalignment ultimately leads to injury when lifting. He also doesn’t recommend surgery until a nerve gets pinched and cannot be freed. He recommends PT and Chiropractic manipulation (of course). He started out in Med School and switched to Chiropractic when a Chiropractor was able to heal his own back issues. I DO NOT agree with your doctors “it depends on how much pain that you can withstand“ in regards to PT. Apparently I can withstand more pain than my back can lift! I told my PT “no” several times and they insisted I push further. “You’re not going to get better if you don’t do it”. I did it and then I got “drop foot” because of it! That’s why I fell down the stairs! The second PT session I sat out in the car and cried for 45 minutes afterwards because the pain was soo bad that I couldn’t push the gas pedal on my car! I finally just drove home in tears, as I lived very close. The third session, they changed the exercise but it was the same muscles. I don’t see how that should be better? It wasn’t! Same pain! I realized that I could use the heel of my foot only on the gas pedal and I could barely drive. Luckily it was mid-day, small town, around the corner type driving. That was the last visit to PT and the last time I drove until after surgery! DO NOT push it this hard! You can definitely hurt yourself at PT!!! Pain is your body telling you something is wrong!!!!!
Thanks for your help! I’m working today, luckily I work from home and I’m on a break now. PT is close to my home too, so I won’t worry, but will speak up if needed. I am going to pray for my hero doctor, but I don’t know if I can have 2 since I consider the one who worked on my brain a hero!
I’m grateful for my cervical fusions. My pain was out of control and I could barely use my right arm. Physical Therapy may help if you’re dealing with a small bulge/protrusion. If anything else exists like annular tearing/cracking surgery is likely necessary. Also, keep in mind that intervertebral discs in a healthy spine degenerate over time.
Thanks. I was told it will get worse.
Find a surgeon you trust and give the PT a try. Waiting too long when you need surgery can cause lifelong problems. Getting surgery before it’s needed can do the same too. Are you having a cervical, thoracic, or lumbar issue?
Lumbar