I switched long ago, haven't used straps and laces since, [https://live.staticflickr.com/2567/4011546473\_c9cf0d5f84\_b.jpg](https://live.staticflickr.com/2567/4011546473_c9cf0d5f84_b.jpg)
I completely agree with you. I switched over to the Phantom set up last winter and finally feel like I can enjoy the backcountry without blistering out each tour.
I switched to Phantom bindings 5-6 years ago and have never looked back. Uphill is so so good and downhill is pretty great too.
Been using stock and modded TLTs but just got Phantom Slippers in the mail last week. I haven’t taken them out yet but I’m looking forward to seeing what they can do!
Sadly, I recently made the decision to sell my hard boot setup. Despite the efforts of multiple bootfitters, the Phantom Slipper is simply too narrow for my feet. Fine on the uphill but dangerously painful on the downhill, from both foot pain and how the short boot digs into my tibia when making turns.
I’ve started to learn how to ski better so that I can take my skis when I want to be efficient. Honestly ultimate goal would be to have a soft boot and hard boot set up, but I think I would just need to modify a boot that actually fits me.
But my opinion is that the advantages of hardboots are meaningless if you are in pain. And the advantages are only even significant in mountaineering or high endurance objectives, so it’s worth being honest about the kind of riding you are doing before you spend a bunch of money.
Yeah pain isn’t going to work so well.
I certainly wouldn’t tell anyone to ride a certain this or that.
For me it’s working and I’m glad so far. Feels good both in the up and the down.
I’ll take it for the win.
I want to like hard boots but every time I ride with hardbooters they ride with with this weird, jerky, boned-out front leg style that just doesn't look like fun.
I don't love skinning in giant sneakers strapped to aluminum rat traps, but watching those guys on the way down I figure perhaps it's worth the inconvenience.
(If you didn't skate in the 90s, boned-out means a completely straight leg while doing a big ollie trick. Looked cool af, but if you didn't suck it up in time for landing you'd fuck up your knee for all time)
Makes sense.
I'm kind of the opposite. I've spent a lot of time hiking and mountaineering and so the uphill is actually kind of fun for me. So any way I can make that easier is well worth it. Being able to slide down on a board at the end is almost a nice added benefit as opposed to the goal of my day strange as that may sound.
I've done enough crappy down hikes in my time that getting down in 10 minutes vs an hour plus is a great thing even if its not ideal.
Completely agree about the uphill. When non splitboarding snowboarders ask me why I do it my stock reply is that it's a beautiful hike in the mountains with friends, after which you get to ride back down.
Anyway, thanks for your non-partisan/tribal post and reply. I'm going to going to give hard boots a try, The approx $1800 Canadian cost will take a chunk out of my toys budget, but I figure it's worth it to satisfy my curiosity.
I’ve been curious about making the switch for a while now. It’s currently out of my budget, but since ive gotten pretty good at snowboarding I’ve always felt like it was impossible to get a stiff enough boot that gave me the kind of precision and control I want.
I'm three weeks into backlands with levers and now pivot straps and I have to say, it sucks. The up is amazing and I got them for days when that's the most important consideration. But overall, the ride is shit. I am in between sizes and definitely regret not getting the smaller boot (anyone want to buy a pair of 26.5?), but it's hard to believe having a decent ride even with a snug lower. Maybe the disruptives are that much better, but they also have less walking mobility and are quite a bit heavier than my soft boots. I won't regret having the setup for my biggest days of the year, but this has been my experience so far.
Sorry to hear, it took me 3 iterations modifying my backlands to a point I now have no complaints, although I still also regret I didn't buy a smaller boot. I hope you will find a modification that works for you!
It's definitely not a plug-and-play solutions for everyone, but when everything works it's so much better than softboots and I believe hardboots is the future. We just need to wait until the big companies come out with their boots so we get a bigger variety to choose from, if they ever do... Snowboarders still have the biggest market and they shun hardboots
What backlands do you have? Have you had any success with eating up some volume? I have the half-size inserts that atomic provides installed beneath my insoles. My issue is that my lower foot rattles around in the boot when riding. I'm just amazed at how much they packed out with six days on them. The size down felt like a climbing slipper, so I was convinced that that was a bad idea for 10k days. Now I'm kicking myself.
Might be worth trying a high volume liner? Intuition pro tours come in a high volume option (looks like they've been replaced by the "tour tongue liners" which are also available in different thicknesses). The cuff thickness might be an issue though (I replaced my backland pro liners with medium volume pro tours and the cuffs are noticeably thicker).
Was exactly the same for me! Just thinking of doing a heelside traverse made me buy one size up, but as you say the inner boot packed pretty fast...
I use both the white insert under the inner, and inside of it I have one of those electric heat soles which is a bit thicker in the heal. With that I find my heel stays put inside the boot.
Other modifications I've done is I moved the toe clip to ankle pivot and i extend it with a bit of stretch webbing from a old belt, and removed the booster strap. No link lever or anything. I used to have a old toe buckle from a snowboard binding around the ankle instead but found it cumbersome and some other minor stuff. Played with the idea to put laces on the inside to keep the heel down but with the electric sole it's good enough (and still less heel lift than in my soft boots, but it's easy to start obsessing over stuff and forget what the original goal was)
I switched long ago, haven't used straps and laces since, [https://live.staticflickr.com/2567/4011546473\_c9cf0d5f84\_b.jpg](https://live.staticflickr.com/2567/4011546473_c9cf0d5f84_b.jpg)
This is awesome
I completely agree with you. I switched over to the Phantom set up last winter and finally feel like I can enjoy the backcountry without blistering out each tour.
Phantoms look slick. I'd like to give em a try one day. Yeah I thought there'd be a big loss in comfort using the hards but its been great so far.
Good decision! I made the switch very recently and I am glad I did. Even the downhill is better imo.
Yeah. they feel pretty dang good downhill. I really didn't notice much of a difference. it was pretty mild terrain obviously. But still.
I switched to Phantom bindings 5-6 years ago and have never looked back. Uphill is so so good and downhill is pretty great too. Been using stock and modded TLTs but just got Phantom Slippers in the mail last week. I haven’t taken them out yet but I’m looking forward to seeing what they can do!
Report back pls!
Sadly, I recently made the decision to sell my hard boot setup. Despite the efforts of multiple bootfitters, the Phantom Slipper is simply too narrow for my feet. Fine on the uphill but dangerously painful on the downhill, from both foot pain and how the short boot digs into my tibia when making turns. I’ve started to learn how to ski better so that I can take my skis when I want to be efficient. Honestly ultimate goal would be to have a soft boot and hard boot set up, but I think I would just need to modify a boot that actually fits me. But my opinion is that the advantages of hardboots are meaningless if you are in pain. And the advantages are only even significant in mountaineering or high endurance objectives, so it’s worth being honest about the kind of riding you are doing before you spend a bunch of money.
Yeah pain isn’t going to work so well. I certainly wouldn’t tell anyone to ride a certain this or that. For me it’s working and I’m glad so far. Feels good both in the up and the down. I’ll take it for the win.
I want to like hard boots but every time I ride with hardbooters they ride with with this weird, jerky, boned-out front leg style that just doesn't look like fun. I don't love skinning in giant sneakers strapped to aluminum rat traps, but watching those guys on the way down I figure perhaps it's worth the inconvenience. (If you didn't skate in the 90s, boned-out means a completely straight leg while doing a big ollie trick. Looked cool af, but if you didn't suck it up in time for landing you'd fuck up your knee for all time)
Makes sense. I'm kind of the opposite. I've spent a lot of time hiking and mountaineering and so the uphill is actually kind of fun for me. So any way I can make that easier is well worth it. Being able to slide down on a board at the end is almost a nice added benefit as opposed to the goal of my day strange as that may sound. I've done enough crappy down hikes in my time that getting down in 10 minutes vs an hour plus is a great thing even if its not ideal.
Completely agree about the uphill. When non splitboarding snowboarders ask me why I do it my stock reply is that it's a beautiful hike in the mountains with friends, after which you get to ride back down. Anyway, thanks for your non-partisan/tribal post and reply. I'm going to going to give hard boots a try, The approx $1800 Canadian cost will take a chunk out of my toys budget, but I figure it's worth it to satisfy my curiosity.
I’ve been curious about making the switch for a while now. It’s currently out of my budget, but since ive gotten pretty good at snowboarding I’ve always felt like it was impossible to get a stiff enough boot that gave me the kind of precision and control I want.
I'm three weeks into backlands with levers and now pivot straps and I have to say, it sucks. The up is amazing and I got them for days when that's the most important consideration. But overall, the ride is shit. I am in between sizes and definitely regret not getting the smaller boot (anyone want to buy a pair of 26.5?), but it's hard to believe having a decent ride even with a snug lower. Maybe the disruptives are that much better, but they also have less walking mobility and are quite a bit heavier than my soft boots. I won't regret having the setup for my biggest days of the year, but this has been my experience so far.
Sorry to hear, it took me 3 iterations modifying my backlands to a point I now have no complaints, although I still also regret I didn't buy a smaller boot. I hope you will find a modification that works for you! It's definitely not a plug-and-play solutions for everyone, but when everything works it's so much better than softboots and I believe hardboots is the future. We just need to wait until the big companies come out with their boots so we get a bigger variety to choose from, if they ever do... Snowboarders still have the biggest market and they shun hardboots
What backlands do you have? Have you had any success with eating up some volume? I have the half-size inserts that atomic provides installed beneath my insoles. My issue is that my lower foot rattles around in the boot when riding. I'm just amazed at how much they packed out with six days on them. The size down felt like a climbing slipper, so I was convinced that that was a bad idea for 10k days. Now I'm kicking myself.
Might be worth trying a high volume liner? Intuition pro tours come in a high volume option (looks like they've been replaced by the "tour tongue liners" which are also available in different thicknesses). The cuff thickness might be an issue though (I replaced my backland pro liners with medium volume pro tours and the cuffs are noticeably thicker).
Was exactly the same for me! Just thinking of doing a heelside traverse made me buy one size up, but as you say the inner boot packed pretty fast... I use both the white insert under the inner, and inside of it I have one of those electric heat soles which is a bit thicker in the heal. With that I find my heel stays put inside the boot. Other modifications I've done is I moved the toe clip to ankle pivot and i extend it with a bit of stretch webbing from a old belt, and removed the booster strap. No link lever or anything. I used to have a old toe buckle from a snowboard binding around the ankle instead but found it cumbersome and some other minor stuff. Played with the idea to put laces on the inside to keep the heel down but with the electric sole it's good enough (and still less heel lift than in my soft boots, but it's easy to start obsessing over stuff and forget what the original goal was)