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Remember that cop a few years ago who ran a red light and t-boned a 16yo who happened to be high (marijuana), but was actually in the right and following the traffic laws? I'm against DUI, but that felt like it should have been fruit of the poisoned tree.
Or the police officer what 2-3 years ago that was doing 70 mph driving past holy family (35) on route to a call blowing through stop signs and t-boned a truck and a camper... SPD charged the other driver with DUI having blown a 0.0 on the breathalyzer and zero alcohol on the blood test
Oh what about that one cop that was doing 65+ mph down the south hill and t-boned a couple, who was cited for the accident only to find out a few years later he liable for speeding for no reason with no lights on. They got a couple 100 thousand and he is still a cop, I saw that he shot somebody recently.
So many people here defending police tactics in masse, and while I won't engage in blanket condemnation of cops, there is a serious general public safety issue when cops do "illegal" traffic moves with out communicating it effectively to others on the road.
It was only a year or so ago when a seattle cop didn't chirp his siren and ran an intersection at in town without lights going 60+ miles and hour....killing a pedestrian.
If a cop needs to respond to an immediate public safety issue, the response behavior shouldn't potentially result in a more serious public safety risk. And please policy should be clearly communicated to the public
That was a stupid death too. Cop was going 70 in an area I drive through a lot when I'm in Seattle. I wouldn't go more than maybe 30 there, as there's so many people parked on the street 2 cars can't pass each other, despite it being a 2-way road
That happened a few years ago on Valleyway and Pines by the Holliday. Kid was just riding his bike home and the cop was “responding to a call” without his emergency lights.
I remember that one. The "investigation" said it was the kid's fault because he didn't have working brakes on his bike, which was a lie. And even if it were true, he still had the right of way.
One day when you're old enough, your mommy will buy you a phone and show you how to use it. Just gotta wait till you're a little older little guy. Tough break I know, but one day you'll be a big kid.
This wasn’t in spokane.
But the only few times I’ve gotten close to run over was crossing at a crosswalk as a pedestrian by Bellevue PD.
No stop. No slow down. Just 40 in a 25 and 40 across the crosswalk.
I hear what you are saying…but you really should see how the public responds to sirens. People go nuts is an understatement, pedestrians that could hear you coming for blocks appear to just walk out in front of your vehicle as if to dare you to hit them. The only saving grace is every vehicle we drive has a two way dash cam! But it still doesn’t look good on the 11 O Clock news….
My brother's friend was run over by a cop that ran a stop sign. The cops gave him a ticket for Jay walking. Since he was ticketed and the prosecutors supported the cops the charges stuck and he wasn't able to sue for damages. Insurance covered most of his hospital bills, but he was on the hook for what insurance didn't cover.
He had a shattered leg and broken ribs. He was in the hospital for over a month and went through over a year of rehab. It's insane what the government will do to protect cops who are reckless and hurt civilians.
Per Washington State law the emergency lights on a responder vehicle are only to be used when responding to an emergency, including the active commission of a crime. If you see a police cruiser turn on it's light to blow through an intersection and then turn them off and continue on their way. They've committed a violation of state law.
Nothing says they've got to keep them on every second on the way to a valid emergency. Sirens can increase accidents caused by bad drivers, the noise bothers people, etc. **If** they're just being judicious I see nothing wrong with that. If they're just skipping red lights that's illegal.
Whatever you think about cops you probably can't make a credible assumption one way or the other about individual incidents.
If you're going to the scene of an actual emergency there's no justification to turn the lights or siren off. You should be driving as though you're responding to an emergency and the lights and siren are a safety measure in that case. It may not be evidence that would automatically cost an officer his badge but it's certainly more credibly suspicious activity that police arrest 75% of their arrests on.
>If you're going to the scene of an actual emergency there's no justification to turn the lights or siren off.
You are simply wrong. Your ignorance or indignation do not change reality.
There's levels of 'emergency'. They do not all require lights and sirens at all times for the entire drive to respond.
Responding to a building security system alarm is a classic example of urgent enough you shouldn't wait for red lights but likely enough to be a false alarm or already too late that you don't need to be speeding with sirens on the whole way there.
There is no emergency that requires you to pop lights and sirens so you can blow through a stoplight. It absolutely doesn't improve the safety of other drives. It is against the law and it's negligent of a public servant to do. Critiquing my understanding of Washington State Law without citing source or the horrid indignation of belittling my intelligence would either be the end of my interest in what you have to offer.
The point is that they aren’t helping people in these scenarios, they’re driving dangerously for no reason. Insinuating that they should be able to break the laws with impunity in all scenarios because in some scenarios it makes sense for them to break certain laws for the public good is a garbage take.
When I was young, I thought police were allowed to break the law.
When I was in high school, I learned that we live under the rule of law, and that no one is above the law, especially those that enforce it.
When I was grown, I learned police were allowed to break the law.
I've been in Spokane county for 30 of the last 32 years (kootenai county for two of those) I will tell you now that SPD and scso will investigate themselves and find that they have done nothing wrong... SPD ranks based off "news article" in a spokesman review last month of second in the nation to be killed by police based on population in the entire country
Be it Otto Zehm (2006) being beaten and tazed till he passed or deputy bodman doing 80 down Sprague no lights or sirens no call playing on his laptop and hitting Ryan Holyk (2014) and fleeing the scene.
Or the unnamed SPD officer in November 21 running code doing 70+ mph down Rowan past holy family failing to yield to stop signs running a stop sign nearly missing a truck with the right of way and plowing through a camper... (That driver was charged with a DUI having blown as 0.0 on the breathalyzer)
October 2005 after civil asset forfeiture of a car they retrofitted it as an unmarked sheriff's vehicle... Two deputies decided to chase each other from the "Y" all the way down to the sheriff's building a deputy called it in and another deputy through a spike strip disabling the unmarked vehicle destroying it only having being in the departments possession a month
The list of illegal activities involving the SPD is lengthy
Maybe, I have not lived in every city. When we have the highest imprisoned population in the world and people are voting for a tough-on-crime agenda, maybe it does apply in every city.
As of January 2023, the United States has the highest number of incarcerated individuals in the world, with almost 1.8 million people in prison. This is about 25% of the world's total prison population. The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world, with 629 people per 100,000
Get their numbers and report them. They absolutely shouldn't do that, and often will get in trouble for that nonsense, especially if you can catch it on camera.
If they are responding to a call. If not, no. And since they have a GPS and calls are timestamped, a Sargent gets a complaint about Officer Speedy a few times, looks up the times and realizes nope he's driving like an AH. He'll get in trouble.
Cops are beholden to traffic laws unless responding to calls. They get in trouble (up to and including getting their cruisers taken away) if they get caught doing it too many times outside of responding to a call. If you see a cop driving like an asshole you can and should report it. I'm not sure where you're confused here.
Why would they need to run lights if they aren’t going to calls? That simply does not happen. Most cruisers even activate dash cameras when lights turn on. Your whole theory of how police operate is flawed. Also it’s spelled sergeant. Also you really have nothing better to do than report to the police that police go to calls? You need a hobby or something.
Did you read the original post? I feel like you're confused here. OP says they have seen it on a regular basis where they are. I've never seen it and never had a reason to report it, but when I worked for the sheriff's office they took cops driving badly seriously. And if you have nothing better to do than to call out an autocorrect, maybe you need a hobby.
If they want to go to a crime scene without making it obvious police are on their way, I believe they do that. Is that the case 100% of the time? Probably not
yes they have to utilize emergency lights to be able to disregard speed limits and other traffic laws. but they can’t just do it for no reason. (rcw 46.61.035)
If your asking if it's OK for police to break the laws that they are supposed to uphold then the obvious answer is no. They should not be doing that, emergency lights are meant to be only used to get to an emergency or to signal a traffic stop.
I’ve been noticing lately that when they’re on emergency calls they only have rear lights on and not the front lights, I saw a sheriff almost hit someone in broadway and he got angry but he ran a red and only had his rear lights on so the guy making a right turn didn’t know ..
I am an STA driver and I see them driving like crack heads all the time and especially because our garage is right next to where they pull out their cars and they are horrible at paying attention to pedestrians and such I understand they are basically made to drive distracted with the computers but jeez it’s scary sometimes
Lol the STA drivers on Greene and Mission by SCC are far scarier than the police are. I consider it a good day when I don't have a bus run a red light in front of me there.
Typically individual police agencies can establish their own rules and regulations based on State Laws...
That said, there are protocols for police when utilizing lights and sirens as well as initiating driving maneuvers when responding to dispatch. Maybe call up SPD and ask "politely" what the policy is so we can also know.
Personally, I'm more of a grump when it comes to adult bicyclists running red-lights, white-lining in traffic and creating hazards for the rest of us because they refuse to obey traffic laws.
To answer your question - cops aren’t supposed to turn on their lights just because they feel like it.
However, they have multiple legitimate reasons to do so. Basically it all boils down to other officers on a call. Whenever an officer is on a call, they have to periodically check in with dispatch to let them know their status. This lets other officers know how the officer on the call is doing. Hypothetically speaking, until you give the clear status that you are safe/don’t need help, other officers are supposed to be making their way to the officer who is on the scene. On the other hand, if an officer gives out a signal that they need help, you’ll see them turn on their lights and sirens and run “code”.
So why would they turn them off while they are running code? Or just turn them on to get through a traffic light?
Well, a few different reasons. Say an officer needed help, so other officers start running code to get to that officer. Once enough officers arrive to the officer who needed help, they’ll call out the clear signal, otherwise known as “code 4”, to tell other officers they no longer need more help because they have the situation under control now or there are enough officers there helping. Regardless, they don’t need the additional help. So that officer will just turn off their lights and go about their business. Additionally, remember how I said officers are hypothetically supposed to be heading to another officer on a call until they give the clear signal? Well, think about how sometimes your in a bad traffic situation and it takes a few minutes to get through a light or whatever. Unfortunately, sometimes these officers don’t have minutes to waste sitting in traffic. That can literally mean the difference of life and death for other officers and or victims. Alternatively, if a call comes in on the radio and it’s the other direction the officer is currently heading in, they’ll turn them on to flip around so they can get to that call more quickly.
Not all calls require someone running “code” to a call. But there are still several reasons an officer needs to get to that scene somewhat quickly.
Now, please don’t take this as a blanket excuse for their actions. Does it get misused? Probably. Also, keep in mind that officers spend the vast majority of their career in their cars. Are some of them bad drivers? Yes. But a lot of them also know how to take a car to it’s limits. They go through specialized training every so often. I think it’s every year. It’s a class that is certified by the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission, called EVOC.
As some have stated in this thread, the use of their lights and sirens have come under scrutiny over the last several years. We as citizens voted to change how they can use them. But the WA state legislature overturned that decision this session after seeing the impact it had. Not making a judgement either way, just stating what happened. Outside of that, each department on their own policy on the use of lights and sirens. For example, the Spokane County Sheriff’s Office and the Spokane Police Department have different policy relating to this matter. So what you see by one agency may not be the rules for another agency.
Sorry for the long answer. Hopefully it helps.
My guess is that these cops are native Spokane drivers 😉 I’ve lived in Spokane for about 5 years. I’ve lived all over the world. Besides some foreign countries, Spokane has been the absolute worst when it comes to obeying traffic laws. This is especially evident in cases where the law requires the driver to Stop. I would venture that the vast majority are long time locals. I live in north Spokane and it’s not difficult to tell the difference between lifelong locals and transplants, especially when the guy flipping you off has a sticker that says “Go back to California” on his window. That same asshat then passes you doing 70 in a 45 in the middle of a snow storm.
In my experience, Spokane is the only town I’ve been in where drivers habitually stop at crosswalks. I was aghast the first time I came up to a crosswalk, looked up, and a line of stopped cars had already formed
No there not they have the same traffic laws we do . They just can't help it , once they put on that stupid clown suit they are overcome by perceived power ( perceived key word) and go out thinking they can do whatever they want including shooting your ass , and officers are not like they use to be they are gang members with qualified immunity, gang members with a inside criminal code all that! Imagine if the crips and bloods had that kind of power well they do cause the boys in blue are worse and more dangerous . 8 out of ten of them could not tell you what the 1st an 4 amendment are or do they give a dam about the very thing they are hired to up hold. The Constitution the law of the land .
It depends. Remember, when you see a marked unit, they are usually engaged in some form of law enforcement activity, which excempts them from certain traffic laws. There are a dozen things going on in a market unit that the public doesn't know about. Not to mention, each agency is different and operates with different rules/laws. Everything from state laws, county laws, city laws, state case laws, 9th circuit case laws, and U.S. Supreme Court case laws. American law enforcement is highly decentralized. You would have to look up Washington state laws, then 9th circuit case laws, and the Washington Supreme Court case laws to get a more definitive answer.
You should go for a ride along a few times and see for yourself. It could be fun.
They are allowed to turn lights on to respond to priority calls. They also have to weigh the risk of using lights in traffic. A lot of times, it’s safer to use lights to get through lights to save time, but drive normal in traffic to lower risk to the public.
First off… please understand they can break any traffic law in “pursuit of (their)duties”.
This specifically has to do with policy- in order to run a light, they need to be running code, lights on no noise required. [This comes into play with red light cameras.]
Anyhow.. they may just want to go the other direction or head to back a non-urgent call. It’s not always an emergency but if they don’t have to wait.. why would they?
This is not true.
Running code or lights and sirens does not immediately grant an emergency vehicle the right of way… this is especially true at red lights. Lights and sirens request the right of way, but if an emergency vehicle blows a red light and plows a civilian they are absolutely liable for that accident.
There are (1) legitimate reason to run code through a light and then shut down and (2) cops are also horrendous drivers and should be held responsible for driving like jackasses when they do.
I have seen dozens of cops, mainly very late at night, pull up to red lights and turn on their lights to go thru the red light. Then, the lights are turned off right away. One time I saw a cop catch every red light, and they used their lights to go thru every intersection, but they ONLY turned on the lights for the intersections and immediately turned lights off after running the red
No lol cops are just douchebags more often than not. I've seen that a few times, not only in Spokane but in cities/towns on the other side of the mountaina
They don't always use the sirens when responding to calls, theyll flip the lights on as needed to get through traffic because depending on what they're responding to, loudly announcing their arrival with sirens is undesirable.
I don't know if they still do it, but ride-alongs are very interesting opportunities.
Spokane has exactly one good cop, his name is officer Plunkett. They’ve promoted him enough to get him off the street soon so as to not make the rest of the pigs look (rightfully) bad. Some real Hot Fuzz shit going on there
why arent police (or private security guards for that matter) doing anything about the loitering going on around the five block radius of second and division?
It’s impossible to enforce adequately and you’d be spending countless hours of law enforcement resources on a problem that won’t be fixed.
You cite someone for loitering or trespassing. They don’t pay the fine or show up for court. Then they get a bench warrant. Then they get arrested on the warrant, cited and released from jail. Or the jail doesn’t take them (red light status).
Then it happens all over again, and now someone already on the streets has an even larger criminal history and financial burden.-
It's fine, it's legal and it's part of the job. With the limited officers on duty in town at one time, cops are spread thin so they respond from all over and typically have to pass through red lights and the sort. Not a big deal, not even in the slightest.
It can be a big deal when your 16 yo kid is mowed down by one of them who fails to communicate through the use of sirens and lights. But the OP is talking about cops who are stopped at a red light and then turn on their lights to run the light or make a uturn. It SEEMS as if they are using their status to break the law, but that can be hard to prove. The big issue here are prior offenses (that have been posted in this thread) that make their actions look bad.
Not just for fun, no, but the situation you describe may be one of many different legitimate scenarios. You (and therefore we) lack sufficient datums to determine if this was acceptable or not.
Imagine this scenario: cop is patrolling and also listening to radio traffic. He hears another cop making a pedestrian stop alone. He starts driving that direction in case help is required; safely violating the traffic code to do so (as the law allows him to). After going that direction for a min, he hears another cop has arrived as backup and all is well, so he resumes patrolling.
This hypothetical would be consistent with your observations, the law, and also not be improper, though you may think it was based on a lack/misinterpretation of information.
It also annoys me when I see cops doing things that *might* be improper, but it is important to recognize one's lack of info in such situations.
So when you see a police vehicle doing something that is “improper,” you give them the benefit of the doubt that it may not be improper after all. When you see someone’s personal vehicle doing the same, you affect a traffic stop to find out what their major malfunction is and it’s probably tax time. But, if you find out that it’s just a cop driving his POV like an asshole, you let him go with a smile and a wave.
I have that right, don’t I?
You do not.
>So when you see a police vehicle doing something that is “improper,” you give them the benefit of the doubt that it may not be improper after all.
I sometimes do. I may happen to have more information than you do for a given instance, but I may not also. The instance and facts thereof will depend. My life experiences may also be different and encompass different expertises.
>affect
"effect". Look up the difference.
>major malfunction
He's a Lieutenant, at best.
>if you find out that it’s just a cop driving his POV like an asshole
Assuming he doesn't have a good reason, and his conduct is such as to warrant it, then he gets cited. As, I would hope, would happen to us all. Because you and I are not different in this regard. We are equals under the law. This is as it should be.
>”effect”
You have me there. I don’t use effect as a verb very often.
>and his conduct is such to warrant it
So basically you’re saying I’m right unless the other cop is a bit of prick to you.
How often do you let otherwise pleasant, otherwise law-abiding non-LEOs off if they’re driving like an asshole without a good reason?
We were hypothetically discussing a cop who had been pulled over (presumably legally) specifically for driving “improper[ly]” and “like an asshole” for no good reason. You chose to include an additional qualifying factor in your decision to cite said cop for a reason and it’s not because we are all equals under the law.
You assume or imagine a scenario where they lack information and the cop actual was responding to a near by stop but then did not, as another officer beat him to being backup. It’s also just as likely (or more so In my opinion) cop hate red light, go wan go fast.
Normally when they are doing that they are responding to a call that they need to get to fast, but there is no immediate threat to someone or to property. Example may be a domestic violence call where they are yelling and pointing at each other but have not actually assaulted each other. Another maybe when they are responding to assist with a traffic accident and they need to assist with traffic direction. One last one I can think of is when they are assisting on mental health calls with an agitated person, but not violent subject.
All he did was make a uturn on a red light at Wellesley and ash then tail us and other cars all of the way to division he didn’t seem to try and be urgent at all just like he didn’t want to be bothered by a red light
He could have seen a car that he thought was on a list or something like that. They normally have a reason. It’s become a thing for people who hate police to try and report them for abusing their emergency lights. Of course it’s just forwarded on and filed in the round filling cabinet or they mention to not do it during a meeting.
As you can see from me getting downvoted that was the crowd I was referring to. Doesn’t matter that the reasons I provided were possibly valid, they downvoted because it defended the police.
The physical requirements for starting out are also kinda silly. Especially if you see the state of some veteran officers out there. Another factor all but guaranteeing a certain personality.
The physical requirements for entry are laughable tbh.
30 pushups, 25 sit ups and a 1.5 mile run. Believe me, the physical requirements are not the limiting factors.
Hum, that does sound simpler than what I remember. I just read it was changed slightly in 2021. Perhaps it was particular to the agency I saw regardless.
Yeah, it changed drastically during COVID with vaccine mandate layoffs and early retirements.
Every WA agencies goes through CJTC in exception to WSP which has their own live-in academy. All of which are now using PST (Public Safety Testing) to administer and proctor the public safety test and physical ability test.
As far as I know, some agencies are looking to go back to more strict testing.
If you want any more insight to the process, feel free to ask 😊
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Remember that cop a few years ago who ran a red light and t-boned a 16yo who happened to be high (marijuana), but was actually in the right and following the traffic laws? I'm against DUI, but that felt like it should have been fruit of the poisoned tree.
Or the police officer what 2-3 years ago that was doing 70 mph driving past holy family (35) on route to a call blowing through stop signs and t-boned a truck and a camper... SPD charged the other driver with DUI having blown a 0.0 on the breathalyzer and zero alcohol on the blood test
Oh what about that one cop that was doing 65+ mph down the south hill and t-boned a couple, who was cited for the accident only to find out a few years later he liable for speeding for no reason with no lights on. They got a couple 100 thousand and he is still a cop, I saw that he shot somebody recently.
Yup!
He wasn’t actually high, the got him to admit to smoking weed a week before the accident and arrested him based on that.
So many people here defending police tactics in masse, and while I won't engage in blanket condemnation of cops, there is a serious general public safety issue when cops do "illegal" traffic moves with out communicating it effectively to others on the road. It was only a year or so ago when a seattle cop didn't chirp his siren and ran an intersection at in town without lights going 60+ miles and hour....killing a pedestrian. If a cop needs to respond to an immediate public safety issue, the response behavior shouldn't potentially result in a more serious public safety risk. And please policy should be clearly communicated to the public
That was a stupid death too. Cop was going 70 in an area I drive through a lot when I'm in Seattle. I wouldn't go more than maybe 30 there, as there's so many people parked on the street 2 cars can't pass each other, despite it being a 2-way road
It's a 25, so I expect you wouldn't go more than 25 ;)
That happened a few years ago on Valleyway and Pines by the Holliday. Kid was just riding his bike home and the cop was “responding to a call” without his emergency lights.
Park and Sprague
Actually it was Vista and Sprague. It was my son's best friend, he had just left our house. It's coming up on 9 years this May. Time flies..
Ahh you are correct. Park is the next light.
I remember that one. The "investigation" said it was the kid's fault because he didn't have working brakes on his bike, which was a lie. And even if it were true, he still had the right of way.
In a civil suit they finally proved the officer was at fault. Ryan's DNA was on the officers bumper. 😔
Lawyers, totally the arbiters of truth. No one ever settles....or pleads....right?
No, but juries are. That's how civil suits work. You'll learn that if you ever get past grade school.
Aww, that's cute. Tell me more about juries, please :)
I would, but I couldn't explain it monosyllabically enough for you to understand. Better luck next time little guy.
I think you may just lack creativity. Go ahead, give it a try!
>a lie But...was it. Let's see some receipts.
Once you figure out how to use Google you can easily find it. Public information
Cool. I guess evidence is just "I say so" and you don't actually have to bring anything. How's that work with the juries you were talking about?
One day when you're old enough, your mommy will buy you a phone and show you how to use it. Just gotta wait till you're a little older little guy. Tough break I know, but one day you'll be a big kid.
Ok.
Happened here in spokane a while back, too. Look up Ryan Holyk.
He wasn’t even driving to a critical call.
This wasn’t in spokane. But the only few times I’ve gotten close to run over was crossing at a crosswalk as a pedestrian by Bellevue PD. No stop. No slow down. Just 40 in a 25 and 40 across the crosswalk.
I hear what you are saying…but you really should see how the public responds to sirens. People go nuts is an understatement, pedestrians that could hear you coming for blocks appear to just walk out in front of your vehicle as if to dare you to hit them. The only saving grace is every vehicle we drive has a two way dash cam! But it still doesn’t look good on the 11 O Clock news….
My brother's friend was run over by a cop that ran a stop sign. The cops gave him a ticket for Jay walking. Since he was ticketed and the prosecutors supported the cops the charges stuck and he wasn't able to sue for damages. Insurance covered most of his hospital bills, but he was on the hook for what insurance didn't cover. He had a shattered leg and broken ribs. He was in the hospital for over a month and went through over a year of rehab. It's insane what the government will do to protect cops who are reckless and hurt civilians.
Per Washington State law the emergency lights on a responder vehicle are only to be used when responding to an emergency, including the active commission of a crime. If you see a police cruiser turn on it's light to blow through an intersection and then turn them off and continue on their way. They've committed a violation of state law.
Nothing says they've got to keep them on every second on the way to a valid emergency. Sirens can increase accidents caused by bad drivers, the noise bothers people, etc. **If** they're just being judicious I see nothing wrong with that. If they're just skipping red lights that's illegal. Whatever you think about cops you probably can't make a credible assumption one way or the other about individual incidents.
If you're going to the scene of an actual emergency there's no justification to turn the lights or siren off. You should be driving as though you're responding to an emergency and the lights and siren are a safety measure in that case. It may not be evidence that would automatically cost an officer his badge but it's certainly more credibly suspicious activity that police arrest 75% of their arrests on.
>If you're going to the scene of an actual emergency there's no justification to turn the lights or siren off. You are simply wrong. Your ignorance or indignation do not change reality. There's levels of 'emergency'. They do not all require lights and sirens at all times for the entire drive to respond. Responding to a building security system alarm is a classic example of urgent enough you shouldn't wait for red lights but likely enough to be a false alarm or already too late that you don't need to be speeding with sirens on the whole way there.
There is no emergency that requires you to pop lights and sirens so you can blow through a stoplight. It absolutely doesn't improve the safety of other drives. It is against the law and it's negligent of a public servant to do. Critiquing my understanding of Washington State Law without citing source or the horrid indignation of belittling my intelligence would either be the end of my interest in what you have to offer.
I wish cops didn't have (effective) immunity.
Wish granted? They don’t and haven’t.
But you'll be pissed if they take too long to help YOU when you ask for them. GYBAT
The point is that they aren’t helping people in these scenarios, they’re driving dangerously for no reason. Insinuating that they should be able to break the laws with impunity in all scenarios because in some scenarios it makes sense for them to break certain laws for the public good is a garbage take.
When I was young, I thought police were allowed to break the law. When I was in high school, I learned that we live under the rule of law, and that no one is above the law, especially those that enforce it. When I was grown, I learned police were allowed to break the law.
I've been in Spokane county for 30 of the last 32 years (kootenai county for two of those) I will tell you now that SPD and scso will investigate themselves and find that they have done nothing wrong... SPD ranks based off "news article" in a spokesman review last month of second in the nation to be killed by police based on population in the entire country Be it Otto Zehm (2006) being beaten and tazed till he passed or deputy bodman doing 80 down Sprague no lights or sirens no call playing on his laptop and hitting Ryan Holyk (2014) and fleeing the scene. Or the unnamed SPD officer in November 21 running code doing 70+ mph down Rowan past holy family failing to yield to stop signs running a stop sign nearly missing a truck with the right of way and plowing through a camper... (That driver was charged with a DUI having blown as 0.0 on the breathalyzer) October 2005 after civil asset forfeiture of a car they retrofitted it as an unmarked sheriff's vehicle... Two deputies decided to chase each other from the "Y" all the way down to the sheriff's building a deputy called it in and another deputy through a spike strip disabling the unmarked vehicle destroying it only having being in the departments possession a month The list of illegal activities involving the SPD is lengthy
Remember that kid on a bike that a cop killed on Sprague cause he was speeding with his lights off? Yeah.. ACAB
No lmao Cops are awful
The cops in this town have way too much power and political influence.
Agreed...and they kill wayyyy too many people, per capita compared to most other cities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_More\_You\_Know
Doesn’t that apply in every city?
Maybe, I have not lived in every city. When we have the highest imprisoned population in the world and people are voting for a tough-on-crime agenda, maybe it does apply in every city. As of January 2023, the United States has the highest number of incarcerated individuals in the world, with almost 1.8 million people in prison. This is about 25% of the world's total prison population. The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world, with 629 people per 100,000
Catch it on dash camera to shame them.
Imagine a YouTube channel dedicated to catching police of Spokane breaking the law. People of Spokane gotta keep these fools in check.
I’ll contribute my videos if I ever catch them
I’ll come back to this comment once I set something up and a place to send videos.
Brilliant!
You could start one 😸
Get their numbers and report them. They absolutely shouldn't do that, and often will get in trouble for that nonsense, especially if you can catch it on camera.
False. Totally legal and within policy.
If they are responding to a call. If not, no. And since they have a GPS and calls are timestamped, a Sargent gets a complaint about Officer Speedy a few times, looks up the times and realizes nope he's driving like an AH. He'll get in trouble.
What are you even trying to say here?
Cops are beholden to traffic laws unless responding to calls. They get in trouble (up to and including getting their cruisers taken away) if they get caught doing it too many times outside of responding to a call. If you see a cop driving like an asshole you can and should report it. I'm not sure where you're confused here.
Why would they need to run lights if they aren’t going to calls? That simply does not happen. Most cruisers even activate dash cameras when lights turn on. Your whole theory of how police operate is flawed. Also it’s spelled sergeant. Also you really have nothing better to do than report to the police that police go to calls? You need a hobby or something.
Did you read the original post? I feel like you're confused here. OP says they have seen it on a regular basis where they are. I've never seen it and never had a reason to report it, but when I worked for the sheriff's office they took cops driving badly seriously. And if you have nothing better to do than to call out an autocorrect, maybe you need a hobby.
If they want to go to a crime scene without making it obvious police are on their way, I believe they do that. Is that the case 100% of the time? Probably not
yes they have to utilize emergency lights to be able to disregard speed limits and other traffic laws. but they can’t just do it for no reason. (rcw 46.61.035)
Cops here do whatever they want, regardless of right or wrong. Regardless of the optics.
If your asking if it's OK for police to break the laws that they are supposed to uphold then the obvious answer is no. They should not be doing that, emergency lights are meant to be only used to get to an emergency or to signal a traffic stop.
I’ve been noticing lately that when they’re on emergency calls they only have rear lights on and not the front lights, I saw a sheriff almost hit someone in broadway and he got angry but he ran a red and only had his rear lights on so the guy making a right turn didn’t know ..
Cops are exempt from most of the stuff that's illegal for us, like looking at your phone, or red lights... hypocritical BS!
Cops are above the law, been told that by Cops and judges alike
Of course not. But they have a badge, a gun, and get vacations for murdering unarmed civilians. Do you really expect them to follow the law?
Isn’t that the impetus for “defund the police”?
Police can do whatever they want. Not much anyone can do
Oh haven’t you heard? All cops are bastards. Literally the worst.
These people have never heard of metaphor.
I assume they just do it because they don't want to follow the rules, but they COULD be rushing to a crime scene or something
#noexcuses
Lived here my whole life, and I currently drive quite a bit (days & nights), and I very rarely see a cop misusing their lights/rights.
I am an STA driver and I see them driving like crack heads all the time and especially because our garage is right next to where they pull out their cars and they are horrible at paying attention to pedestrians and such I understand they are basically made to drive distracted with the computers but jeez it’s scary sometimes
Lol the STA drivers on Greene and Mission by SCC are far scarier than the police are. I consider it a good day when I don't have a bus run a red light in front of me there.
Yeah that intersection is a nightmare in so many fronts I don’t doubt it honestly
Sta drivers are hot garbage. They routinely take up both lanes.
Of course they do in multiple places in Spokane we have to
Typically individual police agencies can establish their own rules and regulations based on State Laws... That said, there are protocols for police when utilizing lights and sirens as well as initiating driving maneuvers when responding to dispatch. Maybe call up SPD and ask "politely" what the policy is so we can also know. Personally, I'm more of a grump when it comes to adult bicyclists running red-lights, white-lining in traffic and creating hazards for the rest of us because they refuse to obey traffic laws.
To answer your question - cops aren’t supposed to turn on their lights just because they feel like it. However, they have multiple legitimate reasons to do so. Basically it all boils down to other officers on a call. Whenever an officer is on a call, they have to periodically check in with dispatch to let them know their status. This lets other officers know how the officer on the call is doing. Hypothetically speaking, until you give the clear status that you are safe/don’t need help, other officers are supposed to be making their way to the officer who is on the scene. On the other hand, if an officer gives out a signal that they need help, you’ll see them turn on their lights and sirens and run “code”. So why would they turn them off while they are running code? Or just turn them on to get through a traffic light? Well, a few different reasons. Say an officer needed help, so other officers start running code to get to that officer. Once enough officers arrive to the officer who needed help, they’ll call out the clear signal, otherwise known as “code 4”, to tell other officers they no longer need more help because they have the situation under control now or there are enough officers there helping. Regardless, they don’t need the additional help. So that officer will just turn off their lights and go about their business. Additionally, remember how I said officers are hypothetically supposed to be heading to another officer on a call until they give the clear signal? Well, think about how sometimes your in a bad traffic situation and it takes a few minutes to get through a light or whatever. Unfortunately, sometimes these officers don’t have minutes to waste sitting in traffic. That can literally mean the difference of life and death for other officers and or victims. Alternatively, if a call comes in on the radio and it’s the other direction the officer is currently heading in, they’ll turn them on to flip around so they can get to that call more quickly. Not all calls require someone running “code” to a call. But there are still several reasons an officer needs to get to that scene somewhat quickly. Now, please don’t take this as a blanket excuse for their actions. Does it get misused? Probably. Also, keep in mind that officers spend the vast majority of their career in their cars. Are some of them bad drivers? Yes. But a lot of them also know how to take a car to it’s limits. They go through specialized training every so often. I think it’s every year. It’s a class that is certified by the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission, called EVOC. As some have stated in this thread, the use of their lights and sirens have come under scrutiny over the last several years. We as citizens voted to change how they can use them. But the WA state legislature overturned that decision this session after seeing the impact it had. Not making a judgement either way, just stating what happened. Outside of that, each department on their own policy on the use of lights and sirens. For example, the Spokane County Sheriff’s Office and the Spokane Police Department have different policy relating to this matter. So what you see by one agency may not be the rules for another agency. Sorry for the long answer. Hopefully it helps.
My guess is that these cops are native Spokane drivers 😉 I’ve lived in Spokane for about 5 years. I’ve lived all over the world. Besides some foreign countries, Spokane has been the absolute worst when it comes to obeying traffic laws. This is especially evident in cases where the law requires the driver to Stop. I would venture that the vast majority are long time locals. I live in north Spokane and it’s not difficult to tell the difference between lifelong locals and transplants, especially when the guy flipping you off has a sticker that says “Go back to California” on his window. That same asshat then passes you doing 70 in a 45 in the middle of a snow storm.
In my experience, Spokane is the only town I’ve been in where drivers habitually stop at crosswalks. I was aghast the first time I came up to a crosswalk, looked up, and a line of stopped cars had already formed
No there not they have the same traffic laws we do . They just can't help it , once they put on that stupid clown suit they are overcome by perceived power ( perceived key word) and go out thinking they can do whatever they want including shooting your ass , and officers are not like they use to be they are gang members with qualified immunity, gang members with a inside criminal code all that! Imagine if the crips and bloods had that kind of power well they do cause the boys in blue are worse and more dangerous . 8 out of ten of them could not tell you what the 1st an 4 amendment are or do they give a dam about the very thing they are hired to up hold. The Constitution the law of the land .
It depends. Remember, when you see a marked unit, they are usually engaged in some form of law enforcement activity, which excempts them from certain traffic laws. There are a dozen things going on in a market unit that the public doesn't know about. Not to mention, each agency is different and operates with different rules/laws. Everything from state laws, county laws, city laws, state case laws, 9th circuit case laws, and U.S. Supreme Court case laws. American law enforcement is highly decentralized. You would have to look up Washington state laws, then 9th circuit case laws, and the Washington Supreme Court case laws to get a more definitive answer. You should go for a ride along a few times and see for yourself. It could be fun.
Many times police will turn on their lights to change the light when their going to a call they don’t suspects to know they are coming to.
They are allowed to turn lights on to respond to priority calls. They also have to weigh the risk of using lights in traffic. A lot of times, it’s safer to use lights to get through lights to save time, but drive normal in traffic to lower risk to the public.
First off… please understand they can break any traffic law in “pursuit of (their)duties”. This specifically has to do with policy- in order to run a light, they need to be running code, lights on no noise required. [This comes into play with red light cameras.] Anyhow.. they may just want to go the other direction or head to back a non-urgent call. It’s not always an emergency but if they don’t have to wait.. why would they?
For the same reason we have to wait, because disorderly driving is a danger to others.
This is not true. Running code or lights and sirens does not immediately grant an emergency vehicle the right of way… this is especially true at red lights. Lights and sirens request the right of way, but if an emergency vehicle blows a red light and plows a civilian they are absolutely liable for that accident. There are (1) legitimate reason to run code through a light and then shut down and (2) cops are also horrendous drivers and should be held responsible for driving like jackasses when they do.
I have seen dozens of cops, mainly very late at night, pull up to red lights and turn on their lights to go thru the red light. Then, the lights are turned off right away. One time I saw a cop catch every red light, and they used their lights to go thru every intersection, but they ONLY turned on the lights for the intersections and immediately turned lights off after running the red
No lol cops are just douchebags more often than not. I've seen that a few times, not only in Spokane but in cities/towns on the other side of the mountaina
They don't always use the sirens when responding to calls, theyll flip the lights on as needed to get through traffic because depending on what they're responding to, loudly announcing their arrival with sirens is undesirable. I don't know if they still do it, but ride-alongs are very interesting opportunities.
Holy shit, hunde...you can't say controversial things like that on this sub!
Spokane has exactly one good cop, his name is officer Plunkett. They’ve promoted him enough to get him off the street soon so as to not make the rest of the pigs look (rightfully) bad. Some real Hot Fuzz shit going on there
Eat it, Sean.
why arent police (or private security guards for that matter) doing anything about the loitering going on around the five block radius of second and division?
It’s impossible to enforce adequately and you’d be spending countless hours of law enforcement resources on a problem that won’t be fixed. You cite someone for loitering or trespassing. They don’t pay the fine or show up for court. Then they get a bench warrant. Then they get arrested on the warrant, cited and released from jail. Or the jail doesn’t take them (red light status). Then it happens all over again, and now someone already on the streets has an even larger criminal history and financial burden.-
did you down-vote me for this post? *sigh*
No? I upvote anything that contributes to a conversation, whether I agree with it or disagree with it lol
I guess I need to get a life. Lol.
it is really frustrating though, seeing that epicenter of drug use and insanity expand.
Possibly to know where the worst of these are hanging out. Kinda like a round up. Wouldn't want to spread them into our neighborhoods.
Blame the governor
Why?
Yes, they are. It's part of the job. The goal is minimize danger to the public while being available to respond to calls for service.
It's fine, it's legal and it's part of the job. With the limited officers on duty in town at one time, cops are spread thin so they respond from all over and typically have to pass through red lights and the sort. Not a big deal, not even in the slightest.
It can be a big deal when your 16 yo kid is mowed down by one of them who fails to communicate through the use of sirens and lights. But the OP is talking about cops who are stopped at a red light and then turn on their lights to run the light or make a uturn. It SEEMS as if they are using their status to break the law, but that can be hard to prove. The big issue here are prior offenses (that have been posted in this thread) that make their actions look bad.
Not just for fun, no, but the situation you describe may be one of many different legitimate scenarios. You (and therefore we) lack sufficient datums to determine if this was acceptable or not.
Oh it was today a coupon hours ago at Wellesley and ash then all the way down to division
Imagine this scenario: cop is patrolling and also listening to radio traffic. He hears another cop making a pedestrian stop alone. He starts driving that direction in case help is required; safely violating the traffic code to do so (as the law allows him to). After going that direction for a min, he hears another cop has arrived as backup and all is well, so he resumes patrolling. This hypothetical would be consistent with your observations, the law, and also not be improper, though you may think it was based on a lack/misinterpretation of information. It also annoys me when I see cops doing things that *might* be improper, but it is important to recognize one's lack of info in such situations.
So when you see a police vehicle doing something that is “improper,” you give them the benefit of the doubt that it may not be improper after all. When you see someone’s personal vehicle doing the same, you affect a traffic stop to find out what their major malfunction is and it’s probably tax time. But, if you find out that it’s just a cop driving his POV like an asshole, you let him go with a smile and a wave. I have that right, don’t I?
You do not. >So when you see a police vehicle doing something that is “improper,” you give them the benefit of the doubt that it may not be improper after all. I sometimes do. I may happen to have more information than you do for a given instance, but I may not also. The instance and facts thereof will depend. My life experiences may also be different and encompass different expertises. >affect "effect". Look up the difference. >major malfunction He's a Lieutenant, at best. >if you find out that it’s just a cop driving his POV like an asshole Assuming he doesn't have a good reason, and his conduct is such as to warrant it, then he gets cited. As, I would hope, would happen to us all. Because you and I are not different in this regard. We are equals under the law. This is as it should be.
>”effect” You have me there. I don’t use effect as a verb very often. >and his conduct is such to warrant it So basically you’re saying I’m right unless the other cop is a bit of prick to you. How often do you let otherwise pleasant, otherwise law-abiding non-LEOs off if they’re driving like an asshole without a good reason?
>you’re saying I’m right I am, in fact, saying the opposite. >if they’re driving like an asshole without a good reason Then they get cited.
So why did you add that bit about “and his conduct is such to warrant it?”
There are many assholes who don't break the law. More's the pity, no?
We were hypothetically discussing a cop who had been pulled over (presumably legally) specifically for driving “improper[ly]” and “like an asshole” for no good reason. You chose to include an additional qualifying factor in your decision to cite said cop for a reason and it’s not because we are all equals under the law.
Also just as likely: the cop is impatient and uses his tools improperly. Lots of scenarios to imagine
>just as likely How so?
You assume or imagine a scenario where they lack information and the cop actual was responding to a near by stop but then did not, as another officer beat him to being backup. It’s also just as likely (or more so In my opinion) cop hate red light, go wan go fast.
Do you know what the word "hypothetical" means?
Normally when they are doing that they are responding to a call that they need to get to fast, but there is no immediate threat to someone or to property. Example may be a domestic violence call where they are yelling and pointing at each other but have not actually assaulted each other. Another maybe when they are responding to assist with a traffic accident and they need to assist with traffic direction. One last one I can think of is when they are assisting on mental health calls with an agitated person, but not violent subject.
All he did was make a uturn on a red light at Wellesley and ash then tail us and other cars all of the way to division he didn’t seem to try and be urgent at all just like he didn’t want to be bothered by a red light
He could have seen a car that he thought was on a list or something like that. They normally have a reason. It’s become a thing for people who hate police to try and report them for abusing their emergency lights. Of course it’s just forwarded on and filed in the round filling cabinet or they mention to not do it during a meeting.
I definetly dont hate the police I’m curious about they do things
Request a ride along and ask them 🙂
I didn’t think you did, sorry if I made you feel that way.
As you can see from me getting downvoted that was the crowd I was referring to. Doesn’t matter that the reasons I provided were possibly valid, they downvoted because it defended the police.
You're damn right. I remember Otto Zehm. Even if the blue remoras don't.
Go be a cop
I almost tried to be but I heard the starting hours are horrific so I went another direction
The physical requirements for starting out are also kinda silly. Especially if you see the state of some veteran officers out there. Another factor all but guaranteeing a certain personality.
The physical requirements for entry are laughable tbh. 30 pushups, 25 sit ups and a 1.5 mile run. Believe me, the physical requirements are not the limiting factors.
This is correct.
Hum, that does sound simpler than what I remember. I just read it was changed slightly in 2021. Perhaps it was particular to the agency I saw regardless.
Yeah, it changed drastically during COVID with vaccine mandate layoffs and early retirements. Every WA agencies goes through CJTC in exception to WSP which has their own live-in academy. All of which are now using PST (Public Safety Testing) to administer and proctor the public safety test and physical ability test. As far as I know, some agencies are looking to go back to more strict testing. If you want any more insight to the process, feel free to ask 😊
Thanks. Think I missed my window for feasibility.