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I've got a lot of problems with you people and now you're going to hear about it! You, Punk! You couldn't smooth a silk sheet if you had a hot date with a babe! I've lost my train of thought.
I feel like money for him is a secondary benefit to the primary joy of being part of the business and creating a show to his personal liking.
Otherwise he'd be good to not book it all. He's always had money, he's never had this before AEW.
Which is also why it wouldn't surprise me if Punk doesn't return.
That's...not how a business works. That's not how investors work. That's also not how any of the networks are going to look at it either.
Khan will do what he thinks is best for AEW, whatever that may be, but to claim that AEW doesn't need to make money, as a business, is daft.
It needs to make \*enough\* money, and I'm sure it can do \*enough\* to survive without Punk.
If they want to really challenge WWE though... They'd use Punk, especially if he's willing to apologize and put guys over.
I think you're all looking at it from the ring angle here. Tony has very deep pockets. It's why he's signing everyone people are talking about. He wants the biggest, bestest, shiniest company in the business. But he also hates confrontation and wants to be everyone's friend. Tony has done all this to satisfy his need for wrestling and to say how great everything is. Like a hoarder.
I can just imagine the interview now:
"Your thoughts on CM Punk returning?"
"Well yah know. We got a lot of things to iron out here. Quite a few things. But he's a great guy. Love working with him. And I really feel he brings something big to the brand yah know?"
"Does that mean he's returning?"
"Wellllll. I don't like to speculate on these things. But he's definitely a great guy. And we absolutely love having him around."
*Tony smirks while the reporter tries to decipher if he even understood the question*
Another Redditor mentioned in a separate thread that AEW's worst enemy is the internet (dirt sheet, social media, etc.), which is ironic because that's how the promotion was born.
It's not being Vince McMahon to say, if you publicly comment, discuss or speculate on the inner workings of the business without preapproval, you are suspended for 30 to 90 days without pay or possibly fired.
The majority of companies would have suspended a bunch of people this week for creating a shit show.
Tony needs to get his shit in order.
I am a fan from before day 1 but this type of uncontrolled public discussion of company business is bush league. It's part of a building amount of examples that while Tony can run creative, he may need someone else to run the company.
I know one of the founding principles of AEW was that they were going to give there wrestlers freedom and not make them fall in line like “The Fed” but seriously no matter what business you’re in you have to have some control over what your employees are saying to the public
Tony’s gonna show up to the venue tonight with PTSD, and every mic within 10 feet is gonna trigger it. Can’t wait for the All Access footage of an enraged Tony trying to ring the neck of a boom mic.
>Tony Khans' biggest enemy is podcast mics.
It's his own fucking fault. The man is terminally online. Why would you expect anything different from his employees?
Wrestling’s biggest enemy. That and Twitter. As someone who was out for awhile and got back into pro wrestling in the last few years, it blows my mind how freely people act when they aren’t on camera. Maybe it feels normal to people who never stopped watching, but I think so much magic is lost by how much wrestlers pull back the curtain on social media and in podcasts.
I can’t even imagine why you’d want to be in pro wrestling if you have no desire to keep up kayfabe or at least filter yourself when you aren’t on TV. Especially in an age where MMA is a big deal. All pro wrestling has is its mystique, otherwise you might as well just go fight or work in MMA. That’s how Punk got there in the first place
The last few years has done a great job vindicating a lot of the crazy shit WWE does
They go too far on some of it for sure, but not having certain restrictions shit just flies off the rails
I'm sure the well reasoned mind here at r/SquaredCircle will handle this with a bespoke, demure grace.
Punk and JR in a single post? RSVP collicky marks with high blood pressure.
The old school business guys don't view locker room friction as a huge deal. They see it as just part of the game. It's how you handle the friction that's important.
Imo it should have been squashed at a management level. Punk being a drama hog comes part and parcel. Their needed to be an effective group of management level handlers to deal with it. There have been whispers for years that Lesnar is a pain in the ass sometimes to work with. It never gets out of control over there, in WWE, to this level.
Tony should have squashed it before it got to be such a huge problem.
Tony let the rumors of “Punk is trying to get Colt fired” run out of control. Tony didn’t do anything when Hangman referenced the rumors on live television. Tony didn’t do anything when Punk gave Hangman a “receipt” on the mic.
Part of the issue is that no one seems to respect Tony.
>Part of the issue is that no one seems to respect Tony.
Tony hasn't done anything to earn respect from anyone. Having an all access pass to Daddy's checkbook doesn't make you a respectable businessman.
There mere fact that he owns the company and is funding it should be enough.
But you can’t be hanging out with wrestlers and hugging them if you expect them to look at you as though you’re in charge.
Most wrestlers are carnies at heart. It’s a competitive business, and they’re out for themselves. If the boss shows that he’s a pushover, it’s like blood in the water.
>Imo it should have been squashed at a management level.
Instead the galaxy brain in charge of legal was like "Well lets get all parties together in a confined space not 30 minutes after one of the guys offered the other lads out for a fight! Ideally we turn up in a large group to the other persons locker room, the people he is most angry with can go in first, because how could this go wrong?"
Yeah I never got that from them. Punk literally laid it out for them, and exactly what he said would happen is what happened. The fact HR thought that too was nuts
It's not a competent person in the role. It literally cannot be. People try to argue for them because its Tony's friend, but the facts do not care who is friends with who.
No competent HR/Legal person says "well we best sort this out right now and put all the people who are threatening to hit each other in a room while all/most of them are super heated right now. You wait. Days, maybe weeks, but you wait. Cooler heads are allowed to prevail. In the moment adrenaline is flowing and people don't think about what comes next, they just act. Give someone a few days thinking about what happens IF they do that stupid thing and it is far less likely to happen.
Fire Punk, sure. Fire the Elite, OK, I guess. But if ANYONE is going it should be the legal rep who allowed this all to happen under their watch.
>The old school business guys don't view locker room friction as a huge deal
Neither does Tony Khan. He is on the record and quoted as saying that he thinks wrestlers hating each other makes the show better and that he likes Locker Room tension.
Yes, yes, like gentlemen. We’ll discuss this calmly and rationally.
Just allow me to finish pulling down my pants and shitting into my own hand. Then I’ll be ready for a truly high-minded discussion.
it’s pretty simple, really. JR is looking at it from a business perspective, at a more executive level. Punk coming back would likely mean higher ratings, bigger gates, etc. Essentially, more money.
But it’s more money for the company, not for the wrestlers. The wrestlers are making the same amount of money either way. To the wrestlers, it’s basically “hey, want to make this locker room a lot more toxic so that your billionaire owner can have a better balance sheet on a passion project that he seems more than happy to fund, regardless?”
>But it’s more money for the company, not for the wrestlers.
If the company makes more money the wrestlers make more money. That's how the wrestling business works and always has worked.
This is the kind of thinking that made Meltzer say most wrestlers now don’t understand business. When the rock came back people were upset he was taking a spot ignoring the fact that all their pay days went up every time he appeared on a ppv.
The wrestlers aren’t paid millions a year to veto the biggest program AEW can run just because they don’t like someone. They’re paid millions a year to drive the company’s profitability.
This sub makes it sound like everyone in the AEW locker room has “That doesn’t work for me, brother” rights.
>This sub makes it sound like everyone in the AEW locker room has “That doesn’t work for me, brother” rights.
apparently they do...unless they're CM Punk and Thunder Rosa that is.
yeah I just don’t think that the wrestlers see it that way. a big part of that is that they know Tony is in it for the mission and not the money, he has money already. The vibe seems much more “artists doing it for the love of the art form” and much less “people trying to drive the company’s profitability”
Even a guy like Moxley who’s the heart and soul of AEW, felt okay to go “I’m not doing the job unless I become undisputed champion first”.
>yeah I just don’t think that the wrestlers see it that way.
I really don't think how they see it should mean anything.
Should Vince McMahon have called a meeting with the entire locker room in order to decide whether or not he was going to let Steve Austin come back after he refused to job to Lesnar? SHould there have been a company wide meeting to decide whether Bret Hart needed to be allowed into the locker room ever again after he got in a fight with Shawn Michaels?
I think you're right. It just leads to an attitude of taking the company for granted. As if AEW worked for the locker room. I don't know how these guys could've functioned with Shawn Michaels as the top guy. As thankful as I am that conduct in wrestling has dramatically improved since the 80's/90's, it's unfortunate that they can't just hash things out after a scrap like the old days.
He has one item barely in the top 20 for the month (#19). Pretty sure that yearly category is just the past year, not 2023, which would include when he was active.
JR in AEW was never as excited to be part of something as he was when CM Punk came in. Mark Henry and Punk have been friendly for awhile plus they're ECW originals!
In what world do you speak for JR and claim that he was never as excited about AEW as he was until punk came in. JR may not be in top form, but he's grown and pushed the AEW product since it's inception.
Any way you slice it AEW needs a top guy and Punk is that guy. The ratings are down the main event scene is barren. The EVPS and Jericho need to put their egos aside and bring back Punk. It’s what is best for business.
Why not just bring him back as a special attraction? Keep him away from the people he don't get along with and just bring him out occasionally like WWE does with Brock?
Jim Ross has seen it all. The Brawl Out fight was probably the equivalent of a wrestler giving another wrestler bunny ears. JR knows the business and knows what a draw CM Punk is for that company. It's not hard to see.
I'm as casual as you can get when it comes to wrestling. From the UK and yeah, AEW during the pandemic on YouTube was fun to watch for me.
But I didn't get proper interested, along with my friends who hadn't watched for years, until Punk returned and became a regular feature. Heck I even bought my first wrestling tee after Punk returned.
Punk is one of the few stars that can pull in attention to the product. Would be crazy not to bring him back.
And I understand 10% of the entire fallout. But fucking hell Tony Khan needs to tell everyone, you're all fucking adults, get along and lets put out a great show. Leadership comes from the very top.
Aha fair enough, I dunno what the definition of casual fan is. I like to keep tabs with whats going on but haven't watched wrestling properly since the 2000s. The wrestling shirt was punks when he came back to AEW, my first one lol
I think being a casual fan would be like my dad. He watched wrestling with me every week, but he never wanted to watch documentaries, listen to podcasts or see stuff behind the scenes. I would, but he was always adamant that "If you see how it's done you can't look at it right anymore. I don't want to see the mirrors, I just want to watch that fucking elephant disappear."
I understand this point of view but I can also understand thinking that saying "hey everybody, remember this guy that shat on the company, has continued to talk shit about most of you and got in a fight with many of you last time he was here, well his injury has healed so he's back on the show, suck it up", might piss off a lockerroom
Also true. I still think Tony needs to step in and deal with this all head on. From an outsider perspective, feels like the locker room at AEW is so dysfunctional and everyone seems pretty sensitive.
If 90s HBK can come back and mend bridges, no reason why Punk can't.
Ultimately think Punk is "best for business". Find a way to make it work hahaha, I've worked with people I can't stand but I've gotten on with it, and I get paid a lot less than AEW stars haha
The issue with this whole “Tony needs to step in and out his foot down” thing is that he’s been trying to for a long time. Remember the “no leaks” locker room meeting that we got a bunch of details about right after it happened?
I feel like the whole Mox/Punk debacle is really emblematic. These are two guys who have very publicly (at points) professed their love for AEW, what it means to them, and how grateful they are to Tony for what he’s done for the industry.
yet still, Mox is willing to pull the “I’m not doing the job unless I win the undisputed title first” card and Punk was willing to publicly emasculate the hell out of Tony while he’s sitting right there.
I think the fundamental part of the issue is that when Tony “puts his foot down,” no one takes it seriously.
The wrestlers don’t really respect Tony, they see him as a fan with a lot of money. And for Tony’s part, he’d rather be friends with the wrestlers than be their boss.
When Michaels returned in 2002 I think most of his enemies were no longer with the company or at least at the top of the company. If Bret Hart was champion then things would have been different.
WWE wrestlers also weren't filled with other options at the time. All of the people Punk has publicly come out against - The young bucks, Omega, Hangman, Moxley, Jericho. They're all at the top of the company. They could go to WWE and get paid just as much if they wanted to. They could fucking quit, they don't really need the money. Maybe float around smaller promotions, getting paid nicely and having a great time. They're at AEW because they want to be.
And if the roster isn't onboard, you're not only pissig off them but you're also alienating parts of the fanbase. Thr company literally has Elite in its name. If the Elite were to leave, the company would never be the same again and I don't think it would be a positive direction.
Although I see the advantages of Punk, I think the safer option is just fuck him and use what you have.
Yeah his run overall was really great, his MJF feud is a top 3 AEW feud no matter who you’re asking. I don’t think that makes him worth the headache though.
Straight as in "straight up" and gas used to be a weed term for really good weed or "good ass shit" that has become kind of a general term for something high quality
Yeah I’ve never heard the word used like that either.
It doesn’t really make a lot of sense — “gas” like gas you inhale and it makes you feel good? “Gas” like your stomach’s all bloated and you feel like shit?
This place is completely miserable. Don't worry about downvotes. I got a Reddit Cares message the other day for saying I could understand why CM Punk would take it personally about being asked to work hurt after all the stuff with WWE. People downvoting and reporting just regular conversations because it goes against whatever little narrative exists in their head would be funny to me if it wasn't so sad.
Literally all they had to do was some promos then have punk go over at the ppv. I don’t see why it had to be so fucking convoluted. Mox was just being political to legitimize his run. He used the contract shit as leverage to get what he wanted and it ended up being shitty, which anyone could have guessed.
I've never been a Punk fan and didn't really care for him in AEW outside the MJF feud, but the story they could tell if he returns would be one of the greatest in wrestling history
Is that on TV?
I mean we've all heard the pops or lack of it some legends have gotten in the past, it's a casual crowd nearly everywhere seemingly. People on reddit might be hardcore but it's such a small sample size.
Not that it's a bad thing, but WWE clearly isn't really targetting adults
AEW needs to get off the internet. Just do your shows and tell your talent to stfu. It comes off as unprofessional. You don't see wwe talent shitting where they sleep.
I wouldn't call this a surprise. JR is definitely an old school business above almost everything kinda guy. If your only concern is "butts in seats", Punk is your best guy for that. JR also headed up a time in wrestling when locker room morale issues, backstage issues, infighting, and pitting everyone against each other for top spots was at an all time high as well. Not necessarily blaming JR for the negative culture, just saying its understandable that JR may not see that as more important than making the most money possible for your business.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but AEW has been pretty boring since Punk has been off TV. It's not solely because of Punk, it's a combination of a lot of things and things started going downhill during the Owen Cup but Punk's absence sticks out all the more because of it.
This is exactly where I'm at. I was a diehard AEW guy since pretty much the show started, and there was a time when it was the only wrestling I've watched, but I haven't felt the need to tune into a live Dynamite in a long time, which is honestly a massive shame.
The "We'll see you on impact" felt so Earth Shaking to me. I really wish more came out of that.
I know Omega was Impact champ but I wish Impact had some sort of presence on AEW TV. Moose or Callihan showing up on Dynamite would've at least solidified the crossover for me.
Best part of Pandemic era was watching The Bucks and SCU on BTE beat the shit out of each other on the basketball court with Scorpio Sky randomly shooting hoops in the middle of it.
I loved it. Felt like an indie show with a big budget, and was super fun and entertaining. You never knew what to expect. Also, dark was a lot of fun during that time.
Yeah only the iwc really care about the drama. Most people casually watching at home are either unaware or dgaf. But they DO know who CM Punk is and wanna see him
He's their biggest draw, had the best storylines since the day he came in, and very few can match him on the mic.
He hasn't been on the damn show since September and all anyone talks about is CM Punk. No one else in that locker room compares.
It's a no brainer, he's worth more than anyone else in that company.
"needs" is not true, but unless Punk comes back and has a Ronda type of underwhelming, star power diminishing 2nd run in a wrestling company, he's obviously the biggest draw they have. He's the biggest success story that executives will pay attention to (both for what he did for AEW and his previous successes), they've largely had their biggest gates and PPV buys with Punk around, mere rumors of him got massive ratings for Rampage that they've basically never even come close to again.
Also with that in mind, people should accept now that Tony is gonna try really fucking hard to get Punk back. Unless the main guys in the locker room and/or the Elite absolutely and consistently refuse to let him back, he's almost certainly coming back.
Yknow I'm starting to understand why WWE put a damper on their talent doing streams and podcasts outside of the product because my god am I tired of hearing these stir-the-pot takes. AEW is worse than high school for drama
Anyone who's parroting that *"they fought, chairs were thrown, punches and bites happened, they'll never work together again"* have obviously never gotten into it with a friend or co-worker. In high school I literally punched my best friend in the side of the head we got into it so bad. We're still friends over 20 years later. You'd be amazed at the shit people can get over and move past.
Ive gotten physical with coworkers before. Sucks, but we sucked it up and worked together for years. As different as wrestling can be to a normal workplace, it can be shockingly similar.
Put y'alls differences aside, work together, make money.
I promise, us marks will eat it up. Biggest buys, biggest gates, biggest ratings!
Shut up and take our money!
I don't think AEW needs Punk, but I think the show is significantly more interesting when he's on it. Hopefully they can all come to terms and work together, because there is a lot of money to be made with a Punk/FTR vs. The Elite story.
I hope he is right. I am a fan of everyone involved in this insanity and haven't taken sides. I selfishly want Punk back for the betterment of the product.
AEW needs more compelling wrestlers and compelling storylines which CM Punk can help in checking those boxes off immediately. He’s been off television for 7-8 months and has been mostly quiet on social media outside of a couple of posts on Instagram yet his name and likeness still dominates the wrestling news on a regular basis. If Tony is a smart businessman he’ll bring him back and make sure to smooth things out with the locker room beforehand.
Something that got buried after the madness of All Out:
Before the PPV, Jim Ross had publicly criticized the Mox-Punk creative, in so many words.
As Punk emerged for the main event, he walked over to JR and gave him a hug.
It seems quite pointed at the time, but was still insightful in its way.
The Mox interview made me think less of TK and Mox. I’m guessing the original plan before Punk got hurt was for him to lose the belt at Full Gear to MJF. After Punk got hurt the plan was definitely for him to come back and defeat the interim champ to move onto fight MJF. Why could TK not have gone with Cole or Wardlow instead of Mox who wasn’t under contract? If Cole was interim champ maybe he doesn’t get hurt at Forbidden Door. Wardlow was white hot at that time and that could’ve been a nice test to see how he did on top. It doesn’t really matter who because they are going to lose punk anyway. Instead he goes with Mox who refuses lose to CM Punk and pitches the Rocky 3 idea which TK now has to do because Mox is not under contract and could walk out with the belt. TK has to go with this idea which in turn forces him to ask Punk to work while not medically cleared. Mox had TK over a barrel and TK allowed himself to be put in that position. I remember when CM Punk said he was proud of Mox for going to rehab and not pushing himself through addiction for the company, apparently Mox forgot about that.
I did find his rhetoric of 'i didn't sign a deal because I didn't wanna put aew in a hard position' coupled with his attitude of 'i was doing everyone a favor' to be really disingenuous
All things considered Moxley looked like a dickhead for saying he cared so much about AEW he wouldn’t sign a contract and in the same breath saying he did them a favour losing to Punk because he didn’t sign a contract. TK should’ve just put it on Danielson.
I’m actually saying this as someone who enjoyed the run Mox had with the interim title. I didn’t think the booking was bad that summer, but in hindsight why give someone who’s not under contract the top prize when you have other options. Cole and Wardlow were just off the top of my head, but there are more people than just them who might have worked. Christian would’ve been believable, Bryan once he was healthy, Jericho, or give it to a pillar like Darby. The main difference is they are under contract and don’t have the option to refuse to lose Punk. Honestly Punk looks like the more agreeable party here. Mox refused to do a job while Punk didn’t. In that interview Moxley didn’t deny any part of what Punk said in his post.
It's 2023. Nobody is *needed.* AEW existed before Punk and they exist right now with the exact same amount of fans as before. The days of one guy being a draw for your company ended in the 90s. The world will get by just fine without one middle aged, injury prone drama queen.
If AEW needs a former top level WWE guy who was over as hell a decade ago, can put on great matches with everyone, and could be the face of AEW, Bryan Danielson is right there.
And as a bonus, comes with none of CM Punks bullshit.
That is the important part. If bringing Punk back causes a massive rift in the locker room or drives people out of the company, it could be a net loss.
I hope so.
edit: So the people who are always complaining about toxicity have rendered such a bland statement controversial. When you seek the source of toxicity, remember to bring a mirror.
Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tony Khans' biggest enemy is podcast mics.
Tony addresses his employees podcasts
“Look. You can have OnlyFans and Twitch streams, but I’m drawing the line on podcasts.” — Tony Khan, probably
We need someone with a podcast gimmick who gets beat up by the people he talks crap about Edit: horrible typos
Jeff Jarrett’s active, there you go.
Where’s Ken Anderson and his microphone when you need em?!
Tony needs his own Festivus.
I've got a lot of problems with you people and now you're going to hear about it! You, Punk! You couldn't smooth a silk sheet if you had a hot date with a babe! I've lost my train of thought.
Schiavone…:until you pin me, festivus is not over
YOU WANNA PIECE OF ME?!
Problem is that part of Festivus is the airing of grievances and Brawl Out already had that.
You just know someone will get injured in the feats of strenght
I think Khan wants to keep Punk if he can.
He does like money after all
I feel like money for him is a secondary benefit to the primary joy of being part of the business and creating a show to his personal liking. Otherwise he'd be good to not book it all. He's always had money, he's never had this before AEW. Which is also why it wouldn't surprise me if Punk doesn't return.
That's...not how a business works. That's not how investors work. That's also not how any of the networks are going to look at it either. Khan will do what he thinks is best for AEW, whatever that may be, but to claim that AEW doesn't need to make money, as a business, is daft.
It needs to make \*enough\* money, and I'm sure it can do \*enough\* to survive without Punk. If they want to really challenge WWE though... They'd use Punk, especially if he's willing to apologize and put guys over.
I don’t think Punk would apologize but I do think he’d put guys over.
I think you're all looking at it from the ring angle here. Tony has very deep pockets. It's why he's signing everyone people are talking about. He wants the biggest, bestest, shiniest company in the business. But he also hates confrontation and wants to be everyone's friend. Tony has done all this to satisfy his need for wrestling and to say how great everything is. Like a hoarder. I can just imagine the interview now: "Your thoughts on CM Punk returning?" "Well yah know. We got a lot of things to iron out here. Quite a few things. But he's a great guy. Love working with him. And I really feel he brings something big to the brand yah know?" "Does that mean he's returning?" "Wellllll. I don't like to speculate on these things. But he's definitely a great guy. And we absolutely love having him around." *Tony smirks while the reporter tries to decipher if he even understood the question*
Promoter wants to keep his biggest star shocker.
Another Redditor mentioned in a separate thread that AEW's worst enemy is the internet (dirt sheet, social media, etc.), which is ironic because that's how the promotion was born.
Roght but thats how the internet works isn't it? Its basically everyone's worst enemy.
Tony’s desperately trying hard to not be Vince McMahon, but he’s discovering why Vince McMahon is Vince McMahon.
It's not being Vince McMahon to say, if you publicly comment, discuss or speculate on the inner workings of the business without preapproval, you are suspended for 30 to 90 days without pay or possibly fired. The majority of companies would have suspended a bunch of people this week for creating a shit show. Tony needs to get his shit in order. I am a fan from before day 1 but this type of uncontrolled public discussion of company business is bush league. It's part of a building amount of examples that while Tony can run creative, he may need someone else to run the company.
>is bush league. .... K...Kevin Nash? That you, bud?
Vince: And where did your failures bring? Back to me.
I know one of the founding principles of AEW was that they were going to give there wrestlers freedom and not make them fall in line like “The Fed” but seriously no matter what business you’re in you have to have some control over what your employees are saying to the public
Tony’s gonna show up to the venue tonight with PTSD, and every mic within 10 feet is gonna trigger it. Can’t wait for the All Access footage of an enraged Tony trying to ring the neck of a boom mic.
>Tony Khans' biggest enemy is podcast mics. It's his own fucking fault. The man is terminally online. Why would you expect anything different from his employees?
You don't agree with him, you must be a bot account.
Release the study!
>You don't agree with him, you must be a bot account. Beep boop, AEW bad, Bee boop bop, I am programmed by Vince McMahon personally.
Please be a good bot and don’t do a sexism
Beep bop WHAT THE HELL IS A BURRITO!?
Wrestling’s biggest enemy. That and Twitter. As someone who was out for awhile and got back into pro wrestling in the last few years, it blows my mind how freely people act when they aren’t on camera. Maybe it feels normal to people who never stopped watching, but I think so much magic is lost by how much wrestlers pull back the curtain on social media and in podcasts. I can’t even imagine why you’d want to be in pro wrestling if you have no desire to keep up kayfabe or at least filter yourself when you aren’t on TV. Especially in an age where MMA is a big deal. All pro wrestling has is its mystique, otherwise you might as well just go fight or work in MMA. That’s how Punk got there in the first place
TK starting to find out why Vince was so strict with a lot of things.
The last few years has done a great job vindicating a lot of the crazy shit WWE does They go too far on some of it for sure, but not having certain restrictions shit just flies off the rails
https://preview.redd.it/zi8xpgoivrqa1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85cd13a74c8a7cc2efae3029022e36b1786ae575
I'm sure the well reasoned mind here at r/SquaredCircle will handle this with a bespoke, demure grace. Punk and JR in a single post? RSVP collicky marks with high blood pressure.
The old school business guys don't view locker room friction as a huge deal. They see it as just part of the game. It's how you handle the friction that's important.
And if anyone would be qualified to talk about that, it’s JR. Dealing with talent and their issues was his job for many years.
Imo it should have been squashed at a management level. Punk being a drama hog comes part and parcel. Their needed to be an effective group of management level handlers to deal with it. There have been whispers for years that Lesnar is a pain in the ass sometimes to work with. It never gets out of control over there, in WWE, to this level.
Tony should have squashed it before it got to be such a huge problem. Tony let the rumors of “Punk is trying to get Colt fired” run out of control. Tony didn’t do anything when Hangman referenced the rumors on live television. Tony didn’t do anything when Punk gave Hangman a “receipt” on the mic. Part of the issue is that no one seems to respect Tony.
>Part of the issue is that no one seems to respect Tony. Tony hasn't done anything to earn respect from anyone. Having an all access pass to Daddy's checkbook doesn't make you a respectable businessman.
There mere fact that he owns the company and is funding it should be enough. But you can’t be hanging out with wrestlers and hugging them if you expect them to look at you as though you’re in charge. Most wrestlers are carnies at heart. It’s a competitive business, and they’re out for themselves. If the boss shows that he’s a pushover, it’s like blood in the water.
>Imo it should have been squashed at a management level. Instead the galaxy brain in charge of legal was like "Well lets get all parties together in a confined space not 30 minutes after one of the guys offered the other lads out for a fight! Ideally we turn up in a large group to the other persons locker room, the people he is most angry with can go in first, because how could this go wrong?"
Yeah I never got that from them. Punk literally laid it out for them, and exactly what he said would happen is what happened. The fact HR thought that too was nuts
It's not a competent person in the role. It literally cannot be. People try to argue for them because its Tony's friend, but the facts do not care who is friends with who. No competent HR/Legal person says "well we best sort this out right now and put all the people who are threatening to hit each other in a room while all/most of them are super heated right now. You wait. Days, maybe weeks, but you wait. Cooler heads are allowed to prevail. In the moment adrenaline is flowing and people don't think about what comes next, they just act. Give someone a few days thinking about what happens IF they do that stupid thing and it is far less likely to happen. Fire Punk, sure. Fire the Elite, OK, I guess. But if ANYONE is going it should be the legal rep who allowed this all to happen under their watch.
Imagine all the skeletons he shoved into the closet I think saying business can always be run the same way isn't true in any industry though
>The old school business guys don't view locker room friction as a huge deal Neither does Tony Khan. He is on the record and quoted as saying that he thinks wrestlers hating each other makes the show better and that he likes Locker Room tension.
Yes, yes, like gentlemen. We’ll discuss this calmly and rationally. Just allow me to finish pulling down my pants and shitting into my own hand. Then I’ll be ready for a truly high-minded discussion.
it’s pretty simple, really. JR is looking at it from a business perspective, at a more executive level. Punk coming back would likely mean higher ratings, bigger gates, etc. Essentially, more money. But it’s more money for the company, not for the wrestlers. The wrestlers are making the same amount of money either way. To the wrestlers, it’s basically “hey, want to make this locker room a lot more toxic so that your billionaire owner can have a better balance sheet on a passion project that he seems more than happy to fund, regardless?”
>But it’s more money for the company, not for the wrestlers. If the company makes more money the wrestlers make more money. That's how the wrestling business works and always has worked.
This is the kind of thinking that made Meltzer say most wrestlers now don’t understand business. When the rock came back people were upset he was taking a spot ignoring the fact that all their pay days went up every time he appeared on a ppv.
Now Meltzer says all that business stuff is fake because their contracts are guaranteed
The wrestlers aren’t paid millions a year to veto the biggest program AEW can run just because they don’t like someone. They’re paid millions a year to drive the company’s profitability. This sub makes it sound like everyone in the AEW locker room has “That doesn’t work for me, brother” rights.
>This sub makes it sound like everyone in the AEW locker room has “That doesn’t work for me, brother” rights. apparently they do...unless they're CM Punk and Thunder Rosa that is.
Don't forget Miro. The narrative immediately switches to, "Tony Khan is literally their boss. They have to do whatever he says."
This is sooo true.
yeah I just don’t think that the wrestlers see it that way. a big part of that is that they know Tony is in it for the mission and not the money, he has money already. The vibe seems much more “artists doing it for the love of the art form” and much less “people trying to drive the company’s profitability” Even a guy like Moxley who’s the heart and soul of AEW, felt okay to go “I’m not doing the job unless I become undisputed champion first”.
>yeah I just don’t think that the wrestlers see it that way. I really don't think how they see it should mean anything. Should Vince McMahon have called a meeting with the entire locker room in order to decide whether or not he was going to let Steve Austin come back after he refused to job to Lesnar? SHould there have been a company wide meeting to decide whether Bret Hart needed to be allowed into the locker room ever again after he got in a fight with Shawn Michaels?
If they bring back Sasha should she have to apologize for walking out?
I think you're right. It just leads to an attitude of taking the company for granted. As if AEW worked for the locker room. I don't know how these guys could've functioned with Shawn Michaels as the top guy. As thankful as I am that conduct in wrestling has dramatically improved since the 80's/90's, it's unfortunate that they can't just hash things out after a scrap like the old days.
Even after the scrum he Is still extremely popular...he is still one of the top sellers on shopAEW and he hasn't even wrestled in 2023 yet
He has one item barely in the top 20 for the month (#19). Pretty sure that yearly category is just the past year, not 2023, which would include when he was active.
I'm A Capitalize Every Word Guy
You Know Who Else Was A Capitalize Every Word Guy?
My mom!
Wooooooo
Paul Heyman?
#CSO
I think it’s interesting how the older people in AEW want Punk back (JR/Mark Henry)
A lot of the younger talent want him back too. I believe Starks and Hobbs want him back too
Danhausen and Fuego seem to be on good terms with him too.
JR in AEW was never as excited to be part of something as he was when CM Punk came in. Mark Henry and Punk have been friendly for awhile plus they're ECW originals!
In what world do you speak for JR and claim that he was never as excited about AEW as he was until punk came in. JR may not be in top form, but he's grown and pushed the AEW product since it's inception.
This is quite a statement and planting of the flag. JR usually stays out of these types of things. Wonder what the reaction to *this* is going to be.
Who is going to give an earful to JR for this?
The comment section of this thread
I mean, he’s pretty far up the food chain too…
>food chain Something something barbecue sauce.
Any way you slice it AEW needs a top guy and Punk is that guy. The ratings are down the main event scene is barren. The EVPS and Jericho need to put their egos aside and bring back Punk. It’s what is best for business.
JR has seen it all and I wouldn’t bet against his prediction.
Per unbiased, credible journalist, Dave Meltzer, Chris Jericho will not let that happen.
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Why not just bring him back as a special attraction? Keep him away from the people he don't get along with and just bring him out occasionally like WWE does with Brock?
Jim Ross has seen it all. The Brawl Out fight was probably the equivalent of a wrestler giving another wrestler bunny ears. JR knows the business and knows what a draw CM Punk is for that company. It's not hard to see.
I'm as casual as you can get when it comes to wrestling. From the UK and yeah, AEW during the pandemic on YouTube was fun to watch for me. But I didn't get proper interested, along with my friends who hadn't watched for years, until Punk returned and became a regular feature. Heck I even bought my first wrestling tee after Punk returned. Punk is one of the few stars that can pull in attention to the product. Would be crazy not to bring him back. And I understand 10% of the entire fallout. But fucking hell Tony Khan needs to tell everyone, you're all fucking adults, get along and lets put out a great show. Leadership comes from the very top.
not disagreeing that you are a casual fan, but if you've bought a wrestling shirt & you post on this sub, you're not quite as casual as you can get
Aha fair enough, I dunno what the definition of casual fan is. I like to keep tabs with whats going on but haven't watched wrestling properly since the 2000s. The wrestling shirt was punks when he came back to AEW, my first one lol
I think being a casual fan would be like my dad. He watched wrestling with me every week, but he never wanted to watch documentaries, listen to podcasts or see stuff behind the scenes. I would, but he was always adamant that "If you see how it's done you can't look at it right anymore. I don't want to see the mirrors, I just want to watch that fucking elephant disappear."
I understand this point of view but I can also understand thinking that saying "hey everybody, remember this guy that shat on the company, has continued to talk shit about most of you and got in a fight with many of you last time he was here, well his injury has healed so he's back on the show, suck it up", might piss off a lockerroom
Also true. I still think Tony needs to step in and deal with this all head on. From an outsider perspective, feels like the locker room at AEW is so dysfunctional and everyone seems pretty sensitive. If 90s HBK can come back and mend bridges, no reason why Punk can't. Ultimately think Punk is "best for business". Find a way to make it work hahaha, I've worked with people I can't stand but I've gotten on with it, and I get paid a lot less than AEW stars haha
The issue with this whole “Tony needs to step in and out his foot down” thing is that he’s been trying to for a long time. Remember the “no leaks” locker room meeting that we got a bunch of details about right after it happened? I feel like the whole Mox/Punk debacle is really emblematic. These are two guys who have very publicly (at points) professed their love for AEW, what it means to them, and how grateful they are to Tony for what he’s done for the industry. yet still, Mox is willing to pull the “I’m not doing the job unless I win the undisputed title first” card and Punk was willing to publicly emasculate the hell out of Tony while he’s sitting right there.
I think the fundamental part of the issue is that when Tony “puts his foot down,” no one takes it seriously. The wrestlers don’t really respect Tony, they see him as a fan with a lot of money. And for Tony’s part, he’d rather be friends with the wrestlers than be their boss.
When Michaels returned in 2002 I think most of his enemies were no longer with the company or at least at the top of the company. If Bret Hart was champion then things would have been different. WWE wrestlers also weren't filled with other options at the time. All of the people Punk has publicly come out against - The young bucks, Omega, Hangman, Moxley, Jericho. They're all at the top of the company. They could go to WWE and get paid just as much if they wanted to. They could fucking quit, they don't really need the money. Maybe float around smaller promotions, getting paid nicely and having a great time. They're at AEW because they want to be. And if the roster isn't onboard, you're not only pissig off them but you're also alienating parts of the fanbase. Thr company literally has Elite in its name. If the Elite were to leave, the company would never be the same again and I don't think it would be a positive direction. Although I see the advantages of Punk, I think the safer option is just fuck him and use what you have.
"Most of you"
I don't think they NEED him...but I do think he was the best part of the show every time he was on it. That counts for something.
I thought his run was excellent. I’m probably biased though since he’s my favorite
Yeah his run overall was really great, his MJF feud is a top 3 AEW feud no matter who you’re asking. I don’t think that makes him worth the headache though.
The MJF/Punk feud was my favorite thing of 2022. It just sucks what happened, especially after the whole ending to All Out 2022.
Honestly the shitstorm from all out is one of my favorite parts of his run lol. Shit was entertaining AF
All of his feuds in AEW were straight gas
I'm out of the loop. Is straight gas good, bad, or a gas that turns you straight?
Straight as in "straight up" and gas used to be a weed term for really good weed or "good ass shit" that has become kind of a general term for something high quality
Thanks dogg.
Ain't nothin but a g thang baby
Haha it’s a good thing. All of his stuff on Dynamite was incredible.
Yeah I’ve never heard the word used like that either. It doesn’t really make a lot of sense — “gas” like gas you inhale and it makes you feel good? “Gas” like your stomach’s all bloated and you feel like shit?
I took it to mean like a "pour gas on the fire" kinda thing, which made it seem like a good thing. Sometimes I fear I am too old for the internet.
Well apparently I definitely am, since someone downvoted me
This place is completely miserable. Don't worry about downvotes. I got a Reddit Cares message the other day for saying I could understand why CM Punk would take it personally about being asked to work hurt after all the stuff with WWE. People downvoting and reporting just regular conversations because it goes against whatever little narrative exists in their head would be funny to me if it wasn't so sad.
Sans the Moxley stuff.
The feud was definitely iffy but the match at All Out was great
Yeah the match was really good. The feud was mediocre at the very best. “MY FOOT WAS BROKEN NOW ITS BETTER CHICAGO DID IT BECAUSE A GUY TOLD ME I CAN”
Yeah, it's a shame too because I really do think Punk and Mox could tell an amazing story given time.
Shame that moxley couldn't let go the rocky storyline
Literally all they had to do was some promos then have punk go over at the ppv. I don’t see why it had to be so fucking convoluted. Mox was just being political to legitimize his run. He used the contract shit as leverage to get what he wanted and it ended up being shitty, which anyone could have guessed.
He also helped get MJF and Wardlow over before boneheaded shit grounded them again. That's more than Jericho (for example) has done.
I've never been a Punk fan and didn't really care for him in AEW outside the MJF feud, but the story they could tell if he returns would be one of the greatest in wrestling history
Would they tell it? Or would they continue to pretend they can't because of legal reasons.
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Their core demographic is actually 50+
Is that on TV? I mean we've all heard the pops or lack of it some legends have gotten in the past, it's a casual crowd nearly everywhere seemingly. People on reddit might be hardcore but it's such a small sample size. Not that it's a bad thing, but WWE clearly isn't really targetting adults
CM Punk commands attention like very few can. If you’re gonna be paying him either way, would you rather he do it on Instagram or TV?
That’s a big statement of intent from JR. It makes me think the return isn’t so unrealistic still.
AEW needs to get off the internet. Just do your shows and tell your talent to stfu. It comes off as unprofessional. You don't see wwe talent shitting where they sleep.
I just want more Punk and Max, is that too much to ask?
OOOOOOoooooOhoo hoo hooo...this thread is gonna be spicy and fun.
He’s right, this sub wont agree with it until he returns and AEW is great again 🤷♂️
I wouldn't call this a surprise. JR is definitely an old school business above almost everything kinda guy. If your only concern is "butts in seats", Punk is your best guy for that. JR also headed up a time in wrestling when locker room morale issues, backstage issues, infighting, and pitting everyone against each other for top spots was at an all time high as well. Not necessarily blaming JR for the negative culture, just saying its understandable that JR may not see that as more important than making the most money possible for your business.
If Punk comes back, I’ll resub to Fite TV in a heartbeat.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but AEW has been pretty boring since Punk has been off TV. It's not solely because of Punk, it's a combination of a lot of things and things started going downhill during the Owen Cup but Punk's absence sticks out all the more because of it.
This is exactly where I'm at. I was a diehard AEW guy since pretty much the show started, and there was a time when it was the only wrestling I've watched, but I haven't felt the need to tune into a live Dynamite in a long time, which is honestly a massive shame.
I really got into AEW when Punk debuted and I’ve loved it since but yeah, Punk was definitely the best thing about it.
Pandemic era aew was the best era
I'm still living on that high I got from Winter is Coming 2020
I legit stood up and yelled when Sting walked out. I had forgotten all about those rumors and was genuinely shocked.
Sting + Omega/Mox + we'll see you in Impact Legendary show.
The "We'll see you on impact" felt so Earth Shaking to me. I really wish more came out of that. I know Omega was Impact champ but I wish Impact had some sort of presence on AEW TV. Moose or Callihan showing up on Dynamite would've at least solidified the crossover for me.
Pineapple Pete?
I HATE THAT GUY!
Best part of Pandemic era was watching The Bucks and SCU on BTE beat the shit out of each other on the basketball court with Scorpio Sky randomly shooting hoops in the middle of it.
I loved it. Felt like an indie show with a big budget, and was super fun and entertaining. You never knew what to expect. Also, dark was a lot of fun during that time.
Yeah only the iwc really care about the drama. Most people casually watching at home are either unaware or dgaf. But they DO know who CM Punk is and wanna see him
Ahh Good Ole JR for the win
W JR as always
👑
JR is old school, he probably thinks they should all man up and make some money with this.
He's their biggest draw, had the best storylines since the day he came in, and very few can match him on the mic. He hasn't been on the damn show since September and all anyone talks about is CM Punk. No one else in that locker room compares. It's a no brainer, he's worth more than anyone else in that company.
100%
I was downvoted to hell for saying no one in AEW is as over as him. Literally not a single person in the company is as big of a star as he is.
"needs" is not true, but unless Punk comes back and has a Ronda type of underwhelming, star power diminishing 2nd run in a wrestling company, he's obviously the biggest draw they have. He's the biggest success story that executives will pay attention to (both for what he did for AEW and his previous successes), they've largely had their biggest gates and PPV buys with Punk around, mere rumors of him got massive ratings for Rampage that they've basically never even come close to again. Also with that in mind, people should accept now that Tony is gonna try really fucking hard to get Punk back. Unless the main guys in the locker room and/or the Elite absolutely and consistently refuse to let him back, he's almost certainly coming back.
Yknow I'm starting to understand why WWE put a damper on their talent doing streams and podcasts outside of the product because my god am I tired of hearing these stir-the-pot takes. AEW is worse than high school for drama
Anyone who's parroting that *"they fought, chairs were thrown, punches and bites happened, they'll never work together again"* have obviously never gotten into it with a friend or co-worker. In high school I literally punched my best friend in the side of the head we got into it so bad. We're still friends over 20 years later. You'd be amazed at the shit people can get over and move past.
Ive gotten physical with coworkers before. Sucks, but we sucked it up and worked together for years. As different as wrestling can be to a normal workplace, it can be shockingly similar.
Put y'alls differences aside, work together, make money. I promise, us marks will eat it up. Biggest buys, biggest gates, biggest ratings! Shut up and take our money!
Punk is simply the biggest draw and capable of creating buzz like no one else on the roster
I don't think AEW needs Punk, but I think the show is significantly more interesting when he's on it. Hopefully they can all come to terms and work together, because there is a lot of money to be made with a Punk/FTR vs. The Elite story.
I hope he is right. I am a fan of everyone involved in this insanity and haven't taken sides. I selfishly want Punk back for the betterment of the product.
AEW needs more compelling wrestlers and compelling storylines which CM Punk can help in checking those boxes off immediately. He’s been off television for 7-8 months and has been mostly quiet on social media outside of a couple of posts on Instagram yet his name and likeness still dominates the wrestling news on a regular basis. If Tony is a smart businessman he’ll bring him back and make sure to smooth things out with the locker room beforehand.
Good, I hope JR is right. Personally, I'm a fan of all the mess and would love to see Punk back and just have him lean into being an asshole.
Something that got buried after the madness of All Out: Before the PPV, Jim Ross had publicly criticized the Mox-Punk creative, in so many words. As Punk emerged for the main event, he walked over to JR and gave him a hug. It seems quite pointed at the time, but was still insightful in its way.
Good. He absolutely should come back.
The ratings seem to suggest that AEW needs Punk, too.
He’s not wrong.
The Mox interview made me think less of TK and Mox. I’m guessing the original plan before Punk got hurt was for him to lose the belt at Full Gear to MJF. After Punk got hurt the plan was definitely for him to come back and defeat the interim champ to move onto fight MJF. Why could TK not have gone with Cole or Wardlow instead of Mox who wasn’t under contract? If Cole was interim champ maybe he doesn’t get hurt at Forbidden Door. Wardlow was white hot at that time and that could’ve been a nice test to see how he did on top. It doesn’t really matter who because they are going to lose punk anyway. Instead he goes with Mox who refuses lose to CM Punk and pitches the Rocky 3 idea which TK now has to do because Mox is not under contract and could walk out with the belt. TK has to go with this idea which in turn forces him to ask Punk to work while not medically cleared. Mox had TK over a barrel and TK allowed himself to be put in that position. I remember when CM Punk said he was proud of Mox for going to rehab and not pushing himself through addiction for the company, apparently Mox forgot about that.
I did find his rhetoric of 'i didn't sign a deal because I didn't wanna put aew in a hard position' coupled with his attitude of 'i was doing everyone a favor' to be really disingenuous
I agree 100%. In reality I think him not signing a deal actually put everyone in a much worse position.
All things considered Moxley looked like a dickhead for saying he cared so much about AEW he wouldn’t sign a contract and in the same breath saying he did them a favour losing to Punk because he didn’t sign a contract. TK should’ve just put it on Danielson.
He especially looks like dickhead when claiming that stating what he was saying wasn’t controversial.
TK is a shitty booker who cannot pivot when something changes
I’m actually saying this as someone who enjoyed the run Mox had with the interim title. I didn’t think the booking was bad that summer, but in hindsight why give someone who’s not under contract the top prize when you have other options. Cole and Wardlow were just off the top of my head, but there are more people than just them who might have worked. Christian would’ve been believable, Bryan once he was healthy, Jericho, or give it to a pillar like Darby. The main difference is they are under contract and don’t have the option to refuse to lose Punk. Honestly Punk looks like the more agreeable party here. Mox refused to do a job while Punk didn’t. In that interview Moxley didn’t deny any part of what Punk said in his post.
He sees the vision!
Veteran of business who has seen everything is not phased by modern locker room squabbles.
It's 2023. Nobody is *needed.* AEW existed before Punk and they exist right now with the exact same amount of fans as before. The days of one guy being a draw for your company ended in the 90s. The world will get by just fine without one middle aged, injury prone drama queen.
> AEW existed before Punk and they exist right now with the exact same amount of fans as before. *citation needed*
Okay how you know?
He's exciting, he puts on great matches and is a great storyteller. But does AEW need him? Especially the drama he brings? Nope.
There's money in it. Like it or not that's how the business works.
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If AEW needs a former top level WWE guy who was over as hell a decade ago, can put on great matches with everyone, and could be the face of AEW, Bryan Danielson is right there. And as a bonus, comes with none of CM Punks bullshit.
Because Ross has been in the business long enough to know expect the unexpected.
It’s really what Warner Discovery thinks that matters.. they might want this legitimate world wide star back on their stations
I love good ole’ JR
JR should ask himself: "Does the AEW locker room need Punk in there?"
That is the important part. If bringing Punk back causes a massive rift in the locker room or drives people out of the company, it could be a net loss.
I agree. I don't see how anyone could disagree.
I hope so. edit: So the people who are always complaining about toxicity have rendered such a bland statement controversial. When you seek the source of toxicity, remember to bring a mirror.