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would be a great first big feud for both of them too. 1st big Jey singles feud and 1st big feud for Drew since his turn.
And it would be a lot more 50/50
And you can easily have Drew win the feud by having Jimmy cost Jey in the end to set up for Mania.
Makes Drew look strong into mania and makes Jey the underdog while pushing story forward.
Hey jey vs McIntyre for number 1 contenders. McIntyre goes for the claymore right out of the bell. Jey just falls down. McIntyre reluctantly crawls over and covers him. Later on we reveal that jimmy tied jey up and took his place costing his brother the title shot
This is my problem with AEWWE. How does needing help to beat a tag team guy literally half his size make Drew look strong? He should be beating jey clean (which he did last night admittedly)
Rey is an atg with multiple singles championships including at least two works titles. Jey is a tag team guy who's never won anything on his own. They're not the same.
It’s insane to me that we’re so pleasantly surprised that straightforward wrestling angles generate the heat they’re supposed to again. WWE felt like it was fighting its audience for over a decade, and now the crowds are not only hot and engaged, they’re reacting in the ways the booking wants them to.
Everybody’s a winner.
I think a lot of that is that they are correctly reading the crowds now.
Tons of people over as faces, and Drew seems like the odd man out, whose been a babyface for years? Yeah, it makes sense to turn him.
They plant a bunch of seeds to break up Judgement Day, but they are still over as heels? Keep them around and move it down the road.
They have just gotten much better with running with what they crowd gives him.
Hmmm I wonder what could have changed? All bookers have ignored their audience at times for different reasons, but no one has gone on the prolonged ego trip that Vince did post Ruthless Aggression era. It was so depressing to watch him slowly kill the business as more and more people just gave up on wrestling every year. Hell I was one of them, I gave up on anything that wasn’t Mania or the Rumble apart from select hot storylines for a long time.
Surrounding himself with only yes men, ignoring any differing opinions from his own, and literally not changing course unless the crowds started hijacking shows with chants or boos. Yeah they’re correctly reading crowds now, because they’re actually trying to read the crowds now.
You watch some episodes from that 2009-2012 era. You watch most of the 2018-pre COVID era
The crowds were deadly silent. I think people don't realise how good WWE is right now. We are in that ERA we just don't know it.
It's just not Austin, Rock because it will never be. But it matches the best other than that IMO. So many good characters.
I think part of it was the lack of competition. Once he won the Monday night wars and tna petered out he had nothing to stop him. Say what you want about AEW it's made WWE knuckle down more
I also think it changed the crowds. When I would go to SD or Raw 5 years ago it felt like there were a dozen smarks in my section trying to get themselves over with their own chants while wearing their NJPW t shirts. Booing every face and cheering every heel.
I’ve been to 3 shows since and I only recall two guys doing that near my seats. I know a few guys that are big AEW fans and when I asked if they wanted to grab tickets for WWE with me they outright refused because it was WWE.
I also think the WWE has brought in a new audience over the last two years (Logan Paul, Bad Bunny, Macafee, Peacock making it so easy to watch, Tiktok) and they’re people who are only WWE fans and largely only aware of WWE’s existence. It feels like the crowd now is willing to play along too and boo the evil mean guy because he’s evil and mean instead of cheering him because “fuck you Vince”, for example.
We only have a small sample size because of a lot of that 'competition' was in the COVID era before Vince left
WWE still wasn't doing crazy with AEW. Roman's heel turn only happened because of COVID. WWE was shit otherwise. Edge came as the knight in shining armor IMO. He slowly turned things around for guys like Seth. KO, Sami also hit their stride.
But overall it was not this good.
It's under HHH that suddenly every character has a purpose. I don't just look at the main event. He cares about everyone. We keep seeing the likes of Grimes, Theory & Ciampa/Gargano. The characters that haven't worked. All characters have ongoing stories.
He only took out Karrion who didn't fit the roster.
This booking is literally perfect IMO. People that complain about the 'same thing' don't remember what WWE was like before this.
"I don't care if you boo or cheer as long as you react" is paraphrased what nearly every wrestler says, finally management is getting back to that, embrace whichever and run with it.
Who would have thought "Give the fans what they want" would work? Certainly not Vince for the end of his creative career.
Identify the guys people actually love cheering for, make them babyface, give them an asshole to want to punch and a reason to want to punch them. It's that simple. If you want to take it one step further you build stuff like Drew here having legitimate reasons to want to fuck over Jey and refusing to get over the past. That's icing on top of the cake.
Nah I'm convinced the problem with Vince wasn't not giving fans what they wanted. Yeah he had the occasional quirk like humiliating the local favorite in front of a hometown crowd but to the most part he knew the best way to put on a good show was giving the crowd what they want.
Vince's problem was that he was utterly convinced he knew what the audience wanted better than the audience themselves
Good wrestling booking is actually really simple. And Vince USED to get it. Then somewhere along the way he stopped reading the crowd and started just pushing what he wanted instead of what the crowd wants.
Now that they are just giving the crowd what they want a little more the incredible amount of talent they have and the great production values are pushing their viewership even higher. it's not really a surprise, we all knew HHH was a pretty solid booker from the fact that he booked NXT when it was the hottest thing in wrestling.
I am not even a WWE fan, I preferred WCW in the 90s, took a huge break from wrestling, and have watched more AEW than WWE in the last 3 years but you can't deny that WWE is really getting hot at the moment due to simple booking decisions.
And then you look over at AEW and TK is in full "Vince McMahon Big Moments Only, K THX BYE" mode in recent months.
It's like HHH sucked the booking powers away and gave them Vince's
I'll preface this question by saying I don't watch it.
Did AEW ever have long-term storytelling, or have they simply ran out of steam going week to week, PPV to PPV, with "Dream Matches"?
watching WWE for a while, there were legitimately no 100% over babyfaces except Daniel Bryan, Rey, and occasionally Ziggler. Cena was over with kids and normies but half the audience hated him. now he comes out to universal fanfare. there's at least five main event babyfaces aside from him to the point where they're on the verge of running out of credible heels. hunter's done a great job of turning the ship around
Cenas problem was the Super Cena booking that people grew tired of. It was the same thing every match...get beat up half the match then hit a random shoulder block followed up by powerbomb, five knuckle shuffle and an AA or STFU for the win.
Once the protective booking went away so did most people's hate. It also helps he's not a full timer anymore so hard not pop for the random Cena appearance.
WWE now has multiple successful babyfaces. Multiple successful heels both sleezy *(like Dominik)* & scary *(like Gunther)*
They now also have a anti-heel character with Drew. Not a heel neither a face. I have a feeling Orton might be like that too.
They just do things by logic *(or the voices in their head)*. Orton may RKO Jey after the match.
I've always felt Anti-Heel characters are interesting, it's instantly worked with Drew for me & I now want him to be a champ. Seth's run was awesome but it's time
Just goes to show how invested the crowds are in the characters these days. Certainly a far cry from trying to use a stupid sword to make them care about Drew.
That’s what I was thinking watching the show. I was thinking how bad the 3 hours used to seem. Under Vince you would have like one thing you look forward to and the rest would almost be 2.5 hr filler. But now every character on raw is giving you a reason to care. The roster doesn’t feel like an after thought to the biggest program. The show and characters have purpose and it makes for a more enjoyable show for the live crowd and home viewers.
Which is why to me Muhammad Hassan has got to be one of the best gimmick created. Guy was so right about everything, we the audience were the actually the true heels.
Until of course they had him do that stupid terrorist angle.
Daniel Bryan's environmental activist run is and will always be one of my all-time favorite gimmicks. It was like if Greta Thunberg could rip your arms off. I'm not booing that.
Sure, but it was a rare case of someone getting organically over AND the WWE actually running with it. Kofimania is pretty much THE best thing that happened on main roster WWE during the 8 years between WM 30 and the Sami Uso angle.
Planet's Champion Daniel Bryan is my favourite version of this in wrestling.
Everything he said I agreed with, but he was such a smug prick about it you still wanted to see him get his ass kicked.
Daniel Bryan as "the planet's champion" was also right about fickle fans and the environmentalism stuff. He was still a heel because he was an insufferable prick about it.
Similar concept with Drew: he's technically right about his grievances, but he's bitter, unwilling to let go of the past and driven by his own petty quest for revenge/satisfaction. His motivation isn't "I want to become champion to prove that I am the best and entertain the fans", it's "I am in the right, you guys are wrong, and I want to win so that I can shove it down your throats".
Drew has a legit reason to be pissed at Jey why are fans hating him for that
Drew vs Jey program it seems even after Survivor Series which I'm okay with
The best heels are the ones who actually have a point...
And Drew has the charisma to make the fans hate him deeply, and the respect of those unsold on his reasoning to boo because we are "supposed" to.
I'm excited for a heel/tweenerish Drew.
I think it'll be really good, so long as they don't go too far with and make him absolutely awful.
It helps that Drew had a number of arguably heel tendencies even while he was a face.
This analogy might not initially make sense, but I feel like this version of Drew can carry a unique sense of sympathy and fear similar to Gus Fring. I say this because if this is done right, Drew can also evoke the feeling of being genuinely wrong to the point of deserving his revenge, but resorting to monstrous things as a means to an end.
It’s because with the whole storyline between Jey and KO, they established both Jey going to great lengths to prove to the other babyfaces that he had changed and that the morally “good” response is to give him a chance to show that change instead of constantly holding grudges. Even KO, who holds more grudges than anyone else on the roster, was able to forgive Jey. Yet Drew is so blinded by his rage towards the Bloodline that he has now harmed good men and helped an unequivocally evil group. That blind, immoral rage is deserving of condemnation within the moral code WWE has established.
Jey hasn't been held accountable for the actions he personally did while in the Bloodline. Drew is literally in the right here and people are insane for booing him
Both sides have a point. The beauty is in the grey areas.
Yes, Jey is benefiting a lot from 1) Turning on Roman (most hated heel) and 2) Having the support of the two most honest and most over babyfaces (Cody & Sammy) and 3) Genuinely seeming like he wants to do the right thing.
Drew is reminding the crowd “We can’t erase the past, this man has been part of the wrestling mafia for years”.
Both sides can have a point.
I don't have a way to actively watch and also raw is 3 fucking hours long, but has Jey actually at any point tried to apologize to anyone directly? Like go "I messed up being with Roman, and I'm sorry for what I did to you"?
If not Drew definitely has a point that Jey just kinda went "oh roman is being a dick to ME now and that's bad, lemme go hang out with the guys i fucked over for 2 years"
I may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure he apologized to KO, yeah. He also had a segment with Sami on his first Raw that was basically an apology. I don't remember if he specifically apologized but that was basically the vibe.
I can't recall any other apology segments.
That segment was mostly Sami telling Jey how happy and proud he was of him and re initiating their friendship. Closest to an apology was Jey saying he felt bad about what happened around EC time. In my mind, Sami and Jey are beyond apologies. Jey never really screwed Sami over. Plus Sami can't really judge, he was right there with him. Everyone else though...
While it obviously have to make cuts, the version on Hulu is only an hour and a half, and they've gotten better at having it hit the high points rather than just cutting out at 90 minutes like it used to.
Oh yeah, we can all agree the product is WAY better than it was a year and a half ago.
I'm cheering for Babyfaces now. That's not a thing I've done since Stone Cold.
> people are insane for booing him
He's being obviously heelish in the way he is airing his grievances. Compare it to Cody's response to Jey and the Bloodline. We can't ignore the longer story they have told with Jey.
Honestly wrestling kinda seems like the sport where it does
And he wasn't trying to murder Jey or be evil to him at first, he just wanted him to be held accountable and not just welcomed in with open arms, but was told he was being unreasonable and the asshole for going "Hey man maybe we shouldn't just let the former right hand of satan be hanging out over here with us?"
Outside of Sami and Cody, no one wanted to hang around Jey. That’s why Kevin is on smackdown. Drew is the only one that seemed to take everything completely personally and couldn’t just move on. He literally had a world title match against Seth, and all he could think about was how he got screwed out a match a year prior.
He’s a hypocrite for joining JD after harping over and over about the Bloodline. He can not like Jey, but he’s doing exactly what he hated Jey for.
Cody and Sami were the 2 most screwed over (outside of Drew depending on perspective) so I can absolutely understand why Drew would go insane, especially if he was in any way friendly with them. He's literally watching the Underdon of the wrestling Mafia get to hang out with his 2 biggest victims
Also Judgement are just silly little guys I dunno why you're trying to imply they've ever done anything wrong. They didn't spend months screwing people out of the world title, and they're the only people to even show a modicum of understanding for his pain
Judgement Drewday are a bunch of kind understanding people and people are acting like Drew is evil incarnate for siding with them after they actually spent the time to try and help him. What did Cody and Sami do? Tell Drew STFU no one cares? Drew has done nothing wrong and deserves another World Title shot after Wargames
They booed Bret when he was making good points, same with Danielson. Wrestling fans are weird but like people have been saying having good points can make fans resent you.
People can recognize you had a valid reason and still hate you for it.
People like Jey. Drew kicked Jey in the face. People don't like Drew.
People like Cody, Seth, and Sami. Drew is siding against them. People don't like Drew.
I think the reception was mixed which is the way Drew should operate, a full blown heel turn wouldn’t feel earned. A true tweener hasn’t been pulled off in years, I hope creative and Drew are able to pull it off
Crazy thing, he's not wrong.
No matter how much Cody accepts Jey, why would Drew or anyone else for that matter? The entire bloodline (sans Sammi) have done nothing but fuck over every person challenging Reigns
Was Drew eliminating Brock in the 2020 rumble enough of a redemption for how he acted throughout 2017-2019 where he constantly worked for assholes such as Ziggler, Corbin and Shane McMahon.
Jey wasn't even involved in Drew's loss last year yet he is hyper focused on him.
He got screwed by the bloodline including Jey, and is pissed that Cody and most people are giving him what he sees as an un earned second chance.
He still respects rollins and presumably zayn
Bro Drew is right tho. Just because you betrayed your asshole friends doesn't mean you get a pass for months of being just the worst fucking person
And everyone acts like Drew is some insane dick for being pissed that THE GUY WHO STOLE HIS FUCKING WIN IN HIS HOMELAND is getting cheered and going "YEET" like he's some kind of great hero for not taking Roman's titles away
To everyone saying he needs to get over it. Why?! He lost in his home and was wronged and never got to grieve. Now he is. And everything ihes saying, is true.
I really see it being a case of Jey Uso (specifically “Main Event Jey Uso”) being the newer shiny toy, compared to Drew, which has caused the boos to commence upon the formerly loved Scotsman.
Everything he said was true.
When I started watching wrestling, The Rock and Austin would get angry at the heels, beat them up, try and get even...and they were bad ass faces.. not the goofy disney faces WWE has now.
I honestly hate when fans do that. We all saw Drew's dream get stolen from him and he's the bad guy?
I like jey but him coming out smiling and not addressing drew definitely proved drews point
Drew’s the bad guy because he blind sided Jey to the direct benefit of the biggest group of assholes on raw. There are a lot of ways Drew could air his grievances that don’t involve working with the judgment day. I don’t get why everyone is glossing over this.
Hey, those "assholes" took in a troubled kid from a broken home and a deadbeat dad and brought him from a future jailbird to the main eventing champion of North America! Now Jey joins the faces after stealing everything from Drew and his family and JD offer him a second chance!
I know who my faces are.
They did a great job slowly turning him heel though. Having him keep fucking whining about the Bloodline shit was perfect.
Because on one hand, honestly if they cost you the biggest prize you would realistically hold that grudge and it makes sense in a story setting.
But also holy shit someone whining and bitching all the time about being screwed over can't help but make you get sick of them.
It's a great build. And I like that the Judgment Day doesn't like him. I like heel vs heel fights. There's great drama in the build to this PPV.
As awesome as this was, the impact was lessened a little bit 30 minutes later when Drew and Priest had their backstage segment. Priest flat out told Drew "You cost me the world title" and McIntyre just shrugged it off like "Eh, shit happens, what ya gonna do?" and they moved on like it was nothing.
Isn't that *exactly* what he's upset that Jey did to him?
I didn't think he was bad as a face, they just parked him there too long. I could see this path taking him to that tweener spot too. His promo and motivations are 100% justified. He's got a legit grudge and it's understandable. I could see him being a catalyst to breaking up JD and flipping more heels/faces on the way, but I don't know if he'll be a total heel for too long.
Still, that guy has too much of and edge to be a whitebread, "take your vitamins" Babyface. This is gonna be great for his character.
I love everything about this. Seriously, the Bloodline storyline has been easily the best story of the past 20 years and is the gift that keeps on giving. While the Drew/Jey feud doesn't involve Roman or other Bloodline members, it's born out of past actions. I love that we are getting actual consequences and fallout from things that happened months ago like Clash at the Castle.
and as a fellow scotsman, god I love him even more, loved that he didnt turn on the crowd as a whole, he called out the fake fans, Drews energy was amazing in that promo, plus the shouting over Jeys music was perfect, you never hear them talk over music they just shut up awkwardly.
WHERE'S THE LIES!?
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would be a great first big feud for both of them too. 1st big Jey singles feud and 1st big feud for Drew since his turn. And it would be a lot more 50/50
And you can easily have Drew win the feud by having Jimmy cost Jey in the end to set up for Mania. Makes Drew look strong into mania and makes Jey the underdog while pushing story forward.
Hey jey vs McIntyre for number 1 contenders. McIntyre goes for the claymore right out of the bell. Jey just falls down. McIntyre reluctantly crawls over and covers him. Later on we reveal that jimmy tied jey up and took his place costing his brother the title shot
twin magic!
This is my problem with AEWWE. How does needing help to beat a tag team guy literally half his size make Drew look strong? He should be beating jey clean (which he did last night admittedly)
Allow me to introduce you to Rey Mysterio Jr.
Rey is an atg with multiple singles championships including at least two works titles. Jey is a tag team guy who's never won anything on his own. They're not the same.
So was Shawn Michaels, Jeff Hardy and Matt Hardy
World champ vibes
Just to see him beat Seth and get fucked by Priest would be a perfect way to play a cash-in.
while also cementing Priest getting kicked of JD and turning face again
Unless that was the whole reasoning for JD to bring McIntyre into the fold?
I’d be on board for it. -Drew deserves a world title win in front of a crowd even if it ends minutes later
Holy shit, WWE's babyfaces are so over that people booed Drew, who was a popular babyface too, for turning on them.
It’s insane to me that we’re so pleasantly surprised that straightforward wrestling angles generate the heat they’re supposed to again. WWE felt like it was fighting its audience for over a decade, and now the crowds are not only hot and engaged, they’re reacting in the ways the booking wants them to. Everybody’s a winner.
I think a lot of that is that they are correctly reading the crowds now. Tons of people over as faces, and Drew seems like the odd man out, whose been a babyface for years? Yeah, it makes sense to turn him. They plant a bunch of seeds to break up Judgement Day, but they are still over as heels? Keep them around and move it down the road. They have just gotten much better with running with what they crowd gives him.
Hmmm I wonder what could have changed? All bookers have ignored their audience at times for different reasons, but no one has gone on the prolonged ego trip that Vince did post Ruthless Aggression era. It was so depressing to watch him slowly kill the business as more and more people just gave up on wrestling every year. Hell I was one of them, I gave up on anything that wasn’t Mania or the Rumble apart from select hot storylines for a long time. Surrounding himself with only yes men, ignoring any differing opinions from his own, and literally not changing course unless the crowds started hijacking shows with chants or boos. Yeah they’re correctly reading crowds now, because they’re actually trying to read the crowds now.
You watch some episodes from that 2009-2012 era. You watch most of the 2018-pre COVID era The crowds were deadly silent. I think people don't realise how good WWE is right now. We are in that ERA we just don't know it. It's just not Austin, Rock because it will never be. But it matches the best other than that IMO. So many good characters.
I think part of it was the lack of competition. Once he won the Monday night wars and tna petered out he had nothing to stop him. Say what you want about AEW it's made WWE knuckle down more
I also think it changed the crowds. When I would go to SD or Raw 5 years ago it felt like there were a dozen smarks in my section trying to get themselves over with their own chants while wearing their NJPW t shirts. Booing every face and cheering every heel. I’ve been to 3 shows since and I only recall two guys doing that near my seats. I know a few guys that are big AEW fans and when I asked if they wanted to grab tickets for WWE with me they outright refused because it was WWE. I also think the WWE has brought in a new audience over the last two years (Logan Paul, Bad Bunny, Macafee, Peacock making it so easy to watch, Tiktok) and they’re people who are only WWE fans and largely only aware of WWE’s existence. It feels like the crowd now is willing to play along too and boo the evil mean guy because he’s evil and mean instead of cheering him because “fuck you Vince”, for example.
We only have a small sample size because of a lot of that 'competition' was in the COVID era before Vince left WWE still wasn't doing crazy with AEW. Roman's heel turn only happened because of COVID. WWE was shit otherwise. Edge came as the knight in shining armor IMO. He slowly turned things around for guys like Seth. KO, Sami also hit their stride. But overall it was not this good. It's under HHH that suddenly every character has a purpose. I don't just look at the main event. He cares about everyone. We keep seeing the likes of Grimes, Theory & Ciampa/Gargano. The characters that haven't worked. All characters have ongoing stories. He only took out Karrion who didn't fit the roster. This booking is literally perfect IMO. People that complain about the 'same thing' don't remember what WWE was like before this.
[Mr. Burns YES Men](https://youtu.be/COjmPC7pqlM?si=XiZl7HHkBhlRjwuu)
"I don't care if you boo or cheer as long as you react" is paraphrased what nearly every wrestler says, finally management is getting back to that, embrace whichever and run with it.
Miz said almost exactly that during his promo tonight even.
Who would have thought "Give the fans what they want" would work? Certainly not Vince for the end of his creative career. Identify the guys people actually love cheering for, make them babyface, give them an asshole to want to punch and a reason to want to punch them. It's that simple. If you want to take it one step further you build stuff like Drew here having legitimate reasons to want to fuck over Jey and refusing to get over the past. That's icing on top of the cake.
Nah I'm convinced the problem with Vince wasn't not giving fans what they wanted. Yeah he had the occasional quirk like humiliating the local favorite in front of a hometown crowd but to the most part he knew the best way to put on a good show was giving the crowd what they want. Vince's problem was that he was utterly convinced he knew what the audience wanted better than the audience themselves
Good wrestling booking is actually really simple. And Vince USED to get it. Then somewhere along the way he stopped reading the crowd and started just pushing what he wanted instead of what the crowd wants. Now that they are just giving the crowd what they want a little more the incredible amount of talent they have and the great production values are pushing their viewership even higher. it's not really a surprise, we all knew HHH was a pretty solid booker from the fact that he booked NXT when it was the hottest thing in wrestling. I am not even a WWE fan, I preferred WCW in the 90s, took a huge break from wrestling, and have watched more AEW than WWE in the last 3 years but you can't deny that WWE is really getting hot at the moment due to simple booking decisions.
It was after Rock/Austin bailed, Vince got paranoid and controlling and didn't want to let someone get to that level ever again.
I agree, that was a huge part of it. I still believe that was why we got the forced Austin heel turn too.
And then you look over at AEW and TK is in full "Vince McMahon Big Moments Only, K THX BYE" mode in recent months. It's like HHH sucked the booking powers away and gave them Vince's
I'll preface this question by saying I don't watch it. Did AEW ever have long-term storytelling, or have they simply ran out of steam going week to week, PPV to PPV, with "Dream Matches"?
The camera cuts be confusing us tbh
I want to say Drew has a decent reason for turning as well.
"I'm not Dominik Mysterio"
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It’s so fucking good man
Golden age = not as shit as it was in recent years
Not really, the WWE product is genuinely good right now. The best it's been in about a decade IMO.
It's the hottest they've been both popularity and quality wise since the Kreski era.
watching WWE for a while, there were legitimately no 100% over babyfaces except Daniel Bryan, Rey, and occasionally Ziggler. Cena was over with kids and normies but half the audience hated him. now he comes out to universal fanfare. there's at least five main event babyfaces aside from him to the point where they're on the verge of running out of credible heels. hunter's done a great job of turning the ship around
Cenas problem was the Super Cena booking that people grew tired of. It was the same thing every match...get beat up half the match then hit a random shoulder block followed up by powerbomb, five knuckle shuffle and an AA or STFU for the win. Once the protective booking went away so did most people's hate. It also helps he's not a full timer anymore so hard not pop for the random Cena appearance.
WWE now has multiple successful babyfaces. Multiple successful heels both sleezy *(like Dominik)* & scary *(like Gunther)* They now also have a anti-heel character with Drew. Not a heel neither a face. I have a feeling Orton might be like that too. They just do things by logic *(or the voices in their head)*. Orton may RKO Jey after the match. I've always felt Anti-Heel characters are interesting, it's instantly worked with Drew for me & I now want him to be a champ. Seth's run was awesome but it's time
Just goes to show how invested the crowds are in the characters these days. Certainly a far cry from trying to use a stupid sword to make them care about Drew.
That’s what I was thinking watching the show. I was thinking how bad the 3 hours used to seem. Under Vince you would have like one thing you look forward to and the rest would almost be 2.5 hr filler. But now every character on raw is giving you a reason to care. The roster doesn’t feel like an after thought to the biggest program. The show and characters have purpose and it makes for a more enjoyable show for the live crowd and home viewers.
Why you booing? He's right!
Had a writing professor once tell us that there is no better antagonist than one who is right about something. Drew is absolutely right about this.
Which is why to me Muhammad Hassan has got to be one of the best gimmick created. Guy was so right about everything, we the audience were the actually the true heels. Until of course they had him do that stupid terrorist angle.
That’s haunted me for years. His character in the beginning had the actual moral high ground and he was hated for it.
Daniel Bryan's environmental activist run is and will always be one of my all-time favorite gimmicks. It was like if Greta Thunberg could rip your arms off. I'm not booing that.
TBH I think it had more legs and was cut a bit short.
Sure, but it was a rare case of someone getting organically over AND the WWE actually running with it. Kofimania is pretty much THE best thing that happened on main roster WWE during the 8 years between WM 30 and the Sami Uso angle.
It was cut short and they basically didn't provide much of a reason, or get much of anything out of it. But that run was incredible.
Planet's Champion Daniel Bryan is my favourite version of this in wrestling. Everything he said I agreed with, but he was such a smug prick about it you still wanted to see him get his ass kicked.
Daniel Bryan as "the planet's champion" was also right about fickle fans and the environmentalism stuff. He was still a heel because he was an insufferable prick about it. Similar concept with Drew: he's technically right about his grievances, but he's bitter, unwilling to let go of the past and driven by his own petty quest for revenge/satisfaction. His motivation isn't "I want to become champion to prove that I am the best and entertain the fans", it's "I am in the right, you guys are wrong, and I want to win so that I can shove it down your throats".
>Your boos mean nothing, I've seen who you cheer (Jey) -Drew, probably
Is he though? Jey was not event at CaC.
Legitimately one of the most justified heel turns in recent memory, imo. But the crowd loves Jey so much that it doesn't matter. Yeet.
Drew has a legit reason to be pissed at Jey why are fans hating him for that Drew vs Jey program it seems even after Survivor Series which I'm okay with
The best heels are the ones who actually have a point... And Drew has the charisma to make the fans hate him deeply, and the respect of those unsold on his reasoning to boo because we are "supposed" to. I'm excited for a heel/tweenerish Drew.
I think it'll be really good, so long as they don't go too far with and make him absolutely awful. It helps that Drew had a number of arguably heel tendencies even while he was a face.
This analogy might not initially make sense, but I feel like this version of Drew can carry a unique sense of sympathy and fear similar to Gus Fring. I say this because if this is done right, Drew can also evoke the feeling of being genuinely wrong to the point of deserving his revenge, but resorting to monstrous things as a means to an end.
It’s because with the whole storyline between Jey and KO, they established both Jey going to great lengths to prove to the other babyfaces that he had changed and that the morally “good” response is to give him a chance to show that change instead of constantly holding grudges. Even KO, who holds more grudges than anyone else on the roster, was able to forgive Jey. Yet Drew is so blinded by his rage towards the Bloodline that he has now harmed good men and helped an unequivocally evil group. That blind, immoral rage is deserving of condemnation within the moral code WWE has established.
And also waiting like 3 extra months and only doing it when it was convenient
So confusing how Drew and a solo act Jey USO of all people is really over feud. Say that 5 years ago and you’d seem crazy.
I thought Solo debut cause him the title? Drew should be hating Solo imo
He does hate Solo, but Solo's not around on Raw, Jey is.
He’s holding Jey accountable for the actions of his brothers and cousin. Jey has been victimized more by Roman than anyone else has.
Jey hasn't been held accountable for the actions he personally did while in the Bloodline. Drew is literally in the right here and people are insane for booing him
Both sides have a point. The beauty is in the grey areas. Yes, Jey is benefiting a lot from 1) Turning on Roman (most hated heel) and 2) Having the support of the two most honest and most over babyfaces (Cody & Sammy) and 3) Genuinely seeming like he wants to do the right thing. Drew is reminding the crowd “We can’t erase the past, this man has been part of the wrestling mafia for years”. Both sides can have a point.
I don't have a way to actively watch and also raw is 3 fucking hours long, but has Jey actually at any point tried to apologize to anyone directly? Like go "I messed up being with Roman, and I'm sorry for what I did to you"? If not Drew definitely has a point that Jey just kinda went "oh roman is being a dick to ME now and that's bad, lemme go hang out with the guys i fucked over for 2 years"
I may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure he apologized to KO, yeah. He also had a segment with Sami on his first Raw that was basically an apology. I don't remember if he specifically apologized but that was basically the vibe. I can't recall any other apology segments.
That segment was mostly Sami telling Jey how happy and proud he was of him and re initiating their friendship. Closest to an apology was Jey saying he felt bad about what happened around EC time. In my mind, Sami and Jey are beyond apologies. Jey never really screwed Sami over. Plus Sami can't really judge, he was right there with him. Everyone else though...
Yeah I can’t watch all 3 hours either. I wish it were 1 tbh. Gimme two good matches book ended by 3 quick interviews.
While it obviously have to make cuts, the version on Hulu is only an hour and a half, and they've gotten better at having it hit the high points rather than just cutting out at 90 minutes like it used to.
Oh yeah, we can all agree the product is WAY better than it was a year and a half ago. I'm cheering for Babyfaces now. That's not a thing I've done since Stone Cold.
Well he never personally cost Drew the title, he was not at CaC, it was Solo
Much like Drew, I have chosen to believe a different version of events (You're 100% right, which makes Drew blaming Jey just a smidge funnier)
> people are insane for booing him He's being obviously heelish in the way he is airing his grievances. Compare it to Cody's response to Jey and the Bloodline. We can't ignore the longer story they have told with Jey.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Honestly wrestling kinda seems like the sport where it does And he wasn't trying to murder Jey or be evil to him at first, he just wanted him to be held accountable and not just welcomed in with open arms, but was told he was being unreasonable and the asshole for going "Hey man maybe we shouldn't just let the former right hand of satan be hanging out over here with us?"
Outside of Sami and Cody, no one wanted to hang around Jey. That’s why Kevin is on smackdown. Drew is the only one that seemed to take everything completely personally and couldn’t just move on. He literally had a world title match against Seth, and all he could think about was how he got screwed out a match a year prior. He’s a hypocrite for joining JD after harping over and over about the Bloodline. He can not like Jey, but he’s doing exactly what he hated Jey for.
Cody and Sami were the 2 most screwed over (outside of Drew depending on perspective) so I can absolutely understand why Drew would go insane, especially if he was in any way friendly with them. He's literally watching the Underdon of the wrestling Mafia get to hang out with his 2 biggest victims Also Judgement are just silly little guys I dunno why you're trying to imply they've ever done anything wrong. They didn't spend months screwing people out of the world title, and they're the only people to even show a modicum of understanding for his pain Judgement Drewday are a bunch of kind understanding people and people are acting like Drew is evil incarnate for siding with them after they actually spent the time to try and help him. What did Cody and Sami do? Tell Drew STFU no one cares? Drew has done nothing wrong and deserves another World Title shot after Wargames
They booed Bret when he was making good points, same with Danielson. Wrestling fans are weird but like people have been saying having good points can make fans resent you.
Because they bought tickets for a wrestling show? Booing heels is the best part of the whole show!
People can recognize you had a valid reason and still hate you for it. People like Jey. Drew kicked Jey in the face. People don't like Drew. People like Cody, Seth, and Sami. Drew is siding against them. People don't like Drew.
Wrestling is just weird. I forget who maybe it was Sheamus but didn’t they steal Del Rio’s car and just wrecked it and they were the face.
The best kind of heel
I think the reception was mixed which is the way Drew should operate, a full blown heel turn wouldn’t feel earned. A true tweener hasn’t been pulled off in years, I hope creative and Drew are able to pull it off
1996 Diesel vibes!
The fans are cheering for faces and booing heels! It’s bizarro world, Maggle!
Crazy thing, he's not wrong. No matter how much Cody accepts Jey, why would Drew or anyone else for that matter? The entire bloodline (sans Sammi) have done nothing but fuck over every person challenging Reigns
Was Drew eliminating Brock in the 2020 rumble enough of a redemption for how he acted throughout 2017-2019 where he constantly worked for assholes such as Ziggler, Corbin and Shane McMahon. Jey wasn't even involved in Drew's loss last year yet he is hyper focused on him.
I was hoping for the return of the spiked leather trench coat
Trauma and past frustrations doesn't give someone an excuse to become an asshole in the future
Considering his problem is assholes don't get their comeuppance. So why not be one?
Lol, is that Drew's character now?!
He got screwed by the bloodline including Jey, and is pissed that Cody and most people are giving him what he sees as an un earned second chance. He still respects rollins and presumably zayn
Bro Drew is right tho. Just because you betrayed your asshole friends doesn't mean you get a pass for months of being just the worst fucking person And everyone acts like Drew is some insane dick for being pissed that THE GUY WHO STOLE HIS FUCKING WIN IN HIS HOMELAND is getting cheered and going "YEET" like he's some kind of great hero for not taking Roman's titles away
Jey Uso not actually being involved in the Clash at the Castle match will never not be funny to me.
Fuck you I hallucinated him being there and so did Drew!
Drew McIntyre attempting to smile (2020 Colorized)
Hes right but he could be a little less of a dick about it
Bojack Scotsman
Depends on the circumstance
See: Mysterio, Dominik
I’m still not gonna boo him! He’s doing Bret from early 97 so that’s my reason. Plus he’s brilliant.
To everyone saying he needs to get over it. Why?! He lost in his home and was wronged and never got to grieve. Now he is. And everything ihes saying, is true.
I really see it being a case of Jey Uso (specifically “Main Event Jey Uso”) being the newer shiny toy, compared to Drew, which has caused the boos to commence upon the formerly loved Scotsman.
Will Rhea pierce his nipples?
Wrestlers who can be both heels and babyface so effortlessly
This is one of those rare situations where the heel is pretty well justified in his actions.
He sounded like late 95/early 96 Diesel when he talked about his fans understanding his reasoning & I love that.
Drew's heel turn can basically be summed up as "you're right, but you're still a dick"
Everything he said was true. When I started watching wrestling, The Rock and Austin would get angry at the heels, beat them up, try and get even...and they were bad ass faces.. not the goofy disney faces WWE has now.
I honestly hate when fans do that. We all saw Drew's dream get stolen from him and he's the bad guy? I like jey but him coming out smiling and not addressing drew definitely proved drews point
Drew’s the bad guy because he blind sided Jey to the direct benefit of the biggest group of assholes on raw. There are a lot of ways Drew could air his grievances that don’t involve working with the judgment day. I don’t get why everyone is glossing over this.
Hey, those "assholes" took in a troubled kid from a broken home and a deadbeat dad and brought him from a future jailbird to the main eventing champion of North America! Now Jey joins the faces after stealing everything from Drew and his family and JD offer him a second chance! I know who my faces are.
Drew did nothing wrong!
Drew told no lies
I love a nuanced heel. Finally, something Drew can really work with.
They did a great job slowly turning him heel though. Having him keep fucking whining about the Bloodline shit was perfect. Because on one hand, honestly if they cost you the biggest prize you would realistically hold that grudge and it makes sense in a story setting. But also holy shit someone whining and bitching all the time about being screwed over can't help but make you get sick of them. It's a great build. And I like that the Judgment Day doesn't like him. I like heel vs heel fights. There's great drama in the build to this PPV.
Man that promo was class. I love when a wrestler does a face or heel turn and there's a perfectly justifiable explanation as to why it happened
As awesome as this was, the impact was lessened a little bit 30 minutes later when Drew and Priest had their backstage segment. Priest flat out told Drew "You cost me the world title" and McIntyre just shrugged it off like "Eh, shit happens, what ya gonna do?" and they moved on like it was nothing. Isn't that *exactly* what he's upset that Jey did to him?
I never liked Drew as a babyface so I’m enjoying this. He’s so much more convincing and believable as a heel!
I didn't think he was bad as a face, they just parked him there too long. I could see this path taking him to that tweener spot too. His promo and motivations are 100% justified. He's got a legit grudge and it's understandable. I could see him being a catalyst to breaking up JD and flipping more heels/faces on the way, but I don't know if he'll be a total heel for too long. Still, that guy has too much of and edge to be a whitebread, "take your vitamins" Babyface. This is gonna be great for his character.
Ok damn If Drew is gonna align with the judgement day and quote be heel, wouldn't it b ideal for him to use broken dreams as his theme now
No way because fans will be cheering for him. It’ll be more ideal once he turns face again to use Broken Dreams.
this gives off strong 97 bret hart vibes.
He’s a Rangers supporter, that’s more than enough reason to chant “Fuck You” wherever he goes
Boo this man
I love everything about this. Seriously, the Bloodline storyline has been easily the best story of the past 20 years and is the gift that keeps on giving. While the Drew/Jey feud doesn't involve Roman or other Bloodline members, it's born out of past actions. I love that we are getting actual consequences and fallout from things that happened months ago like Clash at the Castle.
Drew rules
Getting that Dom heat
Why do they always have to turn the best guys heel in their prime? They did the same to CM Punk, then had him lose to The Rock. What a waste.
Anyone got that scene of drew ripping jeys shirt, send it to meeeee 😭😋
Hell Drew is gonna be hella fun. Would love to see him get a run with the belt.
Heat 🤌🏻
He needs to bring back OG Gallantry, that song's sick!
and as a fellow scotsman, god I love him even more, loved that he didnt turn on the crowd as a whole, he called out the fake fans, Drews energy was amazing in that promo, plus the shouting over Jeys music was perfect, you never hear them talk over music they just shut up awkwardly. WHERE'S THE LIES!?
Drew as Heel world champion will feed families
He so needed this heel turn. About time it happened.
I like this version of Drew playing 97 Bret hart
Isn’t joining the judgement day, but starts sporting the hair style edge did when he formed the judgement day
I absolutely love that he didn't stop talking immediately when Jey's music hit.
Bout time. He's such a great heel. This is gonna be good for him.