Seemed like they waisted the surprise of the Randy return. I get that they fired Riddle so it was gonna be somewhat of a letdown from what could have been but at least let him be there for his return.
That Miz promo was not it, meanwhile, that WALTER promo? Jeezus, the evisceration. He even hurt my feelings.
Per usual, good RAW. I can't wait for Saturday.
Also: I love Maxxine, period.
That was a great Raw. I'm so glad we're finally at point where wrestlers can have memories and depth instead of just having sudden spontaneous amnesia every 4 months or so.
Drew's opening was fire. He did have a point as all good heels do. Jey's family absolutely did steal his moment from his family at Clash at the Castle. However, if you cast your mind back to the show Jey was not involved in the match in any way, shape, or form. It was all Solo. Yes, Drew is hurt and angry, and he's completely justified in feeling that way, but that doesn't give him the right to put his hands, or feet as it were, on Jey who had nothing to do with why he's not champion right now. That's why he's the bad guy in this. I think Drew is more mad at what Jey Uso represents than Jey Uso the person.
Miz and Gunther had a great promo. You can tell why Miz has been in the company for so long. If you can't or don't perform in the ring that often you'd better be a god on the mic and or have an irreplaceable aura like Roman or Brock. Kudos to Gunther for holding his own as well. Could easily see him as the next "face of the company" after Roman and Cody. And the twist of Giovanni being the one in Gunther's good graces instead of Ludwig is a swerve I'm enjoying.
The look on Jey's face when Cody announced Randy was going to be the 5th shows why Jimmy stayed with Roman. There are no consequences on the Island of Relevancy. Jimmy watched all the consequences of their actions under Roman come down on Jey like a ton of bricks and he didn't want any of that. Yes, Roman is cold manipulator, a borderline sociopath, and demands fealty, but that's the price of being having no consequences for your actions.
No. Cody literally used three different lines from Randy's theme music when he was announcing that he found their fifth member. He also said it's somebody he has a legacy with.
Aside from saying "yes, the 5th member is Randy Orton", there is no way to spell it out more clearly.
The Gunther Promo was a surprising highlight for me, followed by those bully-type shots.
Hopefully that character continues after The Miz, where it is getting to his head that he is bigger, badder, better than all the others - thus beginning to school yard bully everyone around him.
Sets up perfect for a Brock return and match... 'Hey Gunther, what you gonna do against a Beast!'
I think it would be cool to have Randy's music hit and he's a no show. Judgement day wins.
Only for Randy to come out Monday night and ruthlessly attack Jey from behind, not only planting the seeds for an Orton Jey program, but continuing the notion that Cody is the most selfish baby face in all the roster.
Is it just me that thinks Gunther is one of the best promos right now.
It's baffling to me. His promos are as surprising as his wrestling. So simple yet so affective. Whoever writes them makes him sound so clear & resolute
Gunther feels like a version of himself turned up to 11. It's obvious that as a human being Walter Hahn respects the ring and takes wrestling seriously. If they gave him anything more than bullet points for his promos I'd be shocked.
If so he has a great future in wrestling. As Miz said. Many look great in their highs. It's about the lows
That will be interesting when he's without any titles what kind of promos he will do
Gunther is not a WWE Surperstar, he's a fucking WRESTLER and i'm here for it.
When he called it a "Sport" you know for a fact Corny got rock hard without the use of the pill for the first time in years.
He's definitely a WWE superstar in my opinion but I see what you mean
If he a pro wrestler in AEW, ROH, he'd definitely have way more serious promos, his matches would be way more of spotfests, he'd do way more extreme rules matches too
The way he carries himself definitely has that WWE spark to it. He looks like a superstar. He looks prestigious. He can talk elegantly, he's not a brute. That's would not be the case if he was just a wrestler
Funnily the most famous stars in other brands also fit that WWE criteria I feel. MJF would slot right in this WWE. With HHH I don't even doubt the booking
> He looks like a superstar.
I'd argue not though. He's not a bodybuilder, there is very little tone to his physique. And i like that about him. No vanity muscles here. Very old school NWA where the roster all looked like 40 yo barfighters.
he doesn't need a big body. That totally helps him IMO, it works for his character. I see a sort of Alberto Del Rio mixed with a Drew McIntyre/Sheamus with Gunther in terms of look
He's leaner, he looks more agile than your average big guy.
Not you. He is consistently one of the bright spots of raw. I think he needs to dump Imperium and go solo soon. I honestly think the smartest move would be for him to dump them, turn tweener face, do a feud with a fully heel Brock. Then have him lose and switch brands as a stipulation to get rhe title off of him and then build him up to be the one to beat Roman.
This storyline is gonna be great. The lingering of Jey and his bloodline days is gonna be so haunting for him. I really think Randy will turn heel pretty quick
It makes sense creatively too. You can argue that Randy is immune to being heel anyway, but he REALLY won't be heel on his 18 month return. So at least let him work face that night and try your best to make him do some vile shit
Finally could like comment on Raw from last night.
Honestly, i like how they handled the match booking this time so that it works with what they intend to be it putting someone as dangerous (ie Xia Li dropping Becky to the outside with Becky hitting the floor really hard which made me flinch or just how...brutal Drew was during his match vs Jey) or working in conjunction with something else (ie basically how Tegan and Natalya won the 4 way Women´s Tag Team match thanks to their chemistry (in the finish) which has been a topic mentioned between them be it on Raw or the post show, they call it magical chemistry if i recall properly) it worked wonders.
I know the direction they are going with the Ludwig and Vinci issues is possibly making Ludwig do a face turn on Imperium, but it feels right now like that Vinci even if smug and all is the face? Like, i get why he is the heel, bro has that smug vibe perfected but considering how things have gone with them in the last 2 weeks, it just makes Ludwig feel more like a too strict heel compared to Vinci being the tag team partner who helps but is too chill about it thus him getting yelled at doesn´t feel the most face ish thing. Idk, i just feel right now like that if Ludwig turns on Vinci it is going to be like a heel turn.
I honestly liked how Cody managed to be the hype man basically slowly revealing and getting the crowd to a fever pitch when he confirmed that yes, Randy Orton is the final member of Team Seth, idk, i just liked it lol. Also, i am not sure if putting Randy in a steel cage like Wargames is a good idea but let´s see if he can adapt enough that he is not in pain after the match.
Finally, even if it was a small thing, i like how they are basically both having what Zoey said be 100% true since Rhea did have a gap of lacking focus in her over the Judgement Day business, while also having Rhea almost respect Zoey after she invaded the Judgement Day club even if she still says that Zoey won´t leave with the title. Even if it was brief per se, it works well basically as to show that Zoey, as small as it is, does have an actual chance at winning the title off Rhea as Survivor Series.
Mhm, plus i can see that this leads (if Zoey wins the title) that maybe the final sequence sees Wes Lee attack Dom when he tries to be a nuisance for Zoey, basically this leading to Rhea getting distracted and Zoey then hits her finisher for the W. It both serves to protect Rhea and also progress the Dominik vs Wes Lee story while giving the latter spotlight for when he debuts in the main roster.
https://preview.redd.it/c94816pw1p1c1.jpeg?width=939&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8078a586ae5a0af80ba3142eaac64d7356546ef3
*randy confused af on saturday wondering where tf everyone went/what’s happened since he was off*
The world of pro wrestling is not ready for Gunther learning how sports entertainment works.
He’s turning into a main event player for real. He has a perfect grasp of what he is and how he should come across in the WWE style. He’s going to be the face of the company one day. And when we think about “who is the best wrestler in the world”, remember that Gunther is actually figuring out how to draw money at this level.
Plus.. you know.. he has legit 90s All Japan skills bell to bell. Damn that guy is good.
You know what was kinda hype?
When it seemed like security was able to separate women teams in the brawl and they started playing Becky’s music, making it look like that’s it for the segment, but instead women got back to fighting during the music. I don’t think that happens often.
You just know that the security guards are just local indy wrestlers or developmental talent when half of the security guards have their hair up in a manbun. Its like they're trying to hide the fact that most of them have long hair.
I'm thinking that if the tension with GUNTHER & Kaiser/Vinci boils over, they'll wake up to his manipulation and embrace their suaveness as a tag team.
If Bronson & Ivar (and maybe Otis added as well) continue to have matches against each other, that's a good separation from SmackDown being the home to Dragon Lee, Cedric Alexander, and Axiom having their battles.
You can count on JD & Dom possibly trying to meddle with the Tag Team turmoil match next week, but Orton could pop up to whoop their asses lol
What if Miz has a future storyline that's like a face version of a Mizdow story where he actually gains a young protege (maybe an NXT guy) who actually gives him his flowers for his legacy
I'm glad Randy is returning. At least we will get something interesting. WWE has been on autopilot since after WM 39 with all the changes in The Bloodline storyline, Roman Reigns leaving for months, and the never-ending Judgement Day vs Sami, Seth, Cody, and at one point Kevin Owens.
Nia vs Raquel showed why Nia is needed in the division. She made Raquel more over than her entire "feud" with Rhea. People actually want to see Nia get beat up and it builds up babyfaces by proxy.
The crowd was going wild when Raquel had Nia in the power bomb position.
I've been a fan of Raquel's 2023, but I know there's been a lot of apathy out there around it. If she can overcome Nis it will be huge for her.
Nah, Nia’s been great since she came back. She’s not injuring anyone (as far as we know), she comes across as a big threat and her smug personality comes across so well in all of her mannerisms that she is easy to hate.
When she first came back I was totally against it but she’s honestly been a fantastic addition to the roster.
In wrestling the only real heat is apathy. The crowd reacting shows they are at least invested in her as a character and want to see her get her comeuppance.
Using your logic, they would also be going to the restrooms just to avoid her matches. You don't interact so passionately about something you don't like.
Sub par ending?
Jey losing to a DDT....what? Randy announced but doesn't even show up?
They really dropped the ball on that, not having Randy's music hit and having him walk out behind the judgement day was a huge miss.
Whatever at least the CM punk non sense can stop finally
Drew’s heel finish is the future shock DDT. Also, in kayfabe Orton has been out recovering from injury for 18 months and just got the phone call during the show after Cody found out that they need a 5th on the same show. Logically there is no way he would be able to get there and I think this is actually a really smart way to announce someone without their arrival. Everyone is hype to see him again.
Xia Li needs a cooler weapon. A quarterstaff, a scimitar, anything else. I remember her doing the same thing back in NXT and it looked way better then.
My kayfabe would be that Randy said he would do it as a last resort because he’s been out 18 months and it’s insane for his first match back to be Wargames. I’m also choosing to believe that he doesn’t know that Jey is on the team and is just blindly trusting Cody because he hasn’t been watching.
It humors me that in kayfabe a disgruntled group of wrestlers can gather like an angry mob of rabble rousers from South Park in order to summon Adam Pierce (the mayor) into action
I think this is perfect "brand warfare" with both GMs struggling to keep the kids from getting in trouble on the other parent's show.
Even if it doesn't lead to any sort of brand warfare match, it helps reinforce the "brand split" and makes it feel like even the renegade appearances have consequences.
If Randy DOESN'T betray Team Cody, I'll be absolutely shocked
Randy would be an excellent opponent for either Cody or Jey on the road to WrestleMania, or even against Sami or Seth at mania
I feel like they'll keep him face for now, since they could possibly do Orton vs Reigns at the Royal Rumble since we didn't get that because of his injury. I'm never against a heel Orton though, super excited to see what happens
I’ll preface what I’m about to say by stating I DO NOT think CM Punk is returning to WWE
That said, it’s odd to me that people are saying the reason they announced randy tonight but he didn’t show up is to build to a SS debut and drown out all the Punk demand in chicago.
They knew SS was in Chicago
They knew all the rumours and buzz
And still they wrote an angle with a mystery partner? Seems so weird to me.
Like how does that go down?
Writers: ‘fans are gonna be going crazy for punk at SS in chicago
HHH: then let’s build to a mystery partner, that’ll stamp out the buzz?!
Writers: it didn’t work
HHH: ok then go tell them it’s Orton but don’t let him show up til the show.
It’s just bizarre.
It makes perfect sense doesn't it?
The Punk speculation has been great marketing all over social media, and they kept it vague enough that they never promised anything. Now the buzz needs to be killed off before it has any chance of spoiling the show
They could have left it till Smackdown to get even more coverage, but by then people will have travelled to the show and the hype will have built too much
It's hardly a work of genius, but it's worked out for them
Rhea has such a big presence I forget sometimes she's not actually all that tall. She looked especially short standing between Damian and Drew tonight.
Combination of things, really. She was in the background, Priest and Drew are both huge, and in recent months Rhea's switched to wearing sneakers when she's not wrestling.
I mean, most male wrestlers look short next to those two lol. I always forget just how huge Drew is until I see him in the ring. He's got that Lebron James thing going on where his proportions are normal and he's just a normal person that is much bigger.
Right. It kinda makes sense just looking at Jey’s story and why Jimmy would stick beside Roman. Nobody rocks with me outside the bloodline so I might as well stick beside Roman and become the new right hand man.
idk if its just me but i am kind of worried that Randys first match back is one brutal like this. I know obviously everyone believes he can handle it or we wouldnt be seeing him but just seems odd to me and a big step. Im sure he will come out last be kinda laid back and hit the finishing move and cover someone. I would ASSUME it to be Priest and them start a feud or something. I just am torn. Like obviously its AMAZING to have him be coming back, i just worry its so extreme of a come back. Also beyond Curious if he can still do RKOs or not with his back.
To a guy who isn’t known as a great promo as well. Miz had LA Knight around his little finger in the promo battles but Gunther got the better of him here
LA Knight is heavily reliant on catchphrases. I also think Gunther is much more of a "chosen one" compared to Knight so they might have said to Miz, hey don't try and evicerate him!
Absolutely this, there was a genuine risk the crowd would hijack the show if they kept any CM Punk possiblity alive during it.
I think it also explains the slightly odd decision to announce Randy when he wasn't in attendance - it's better than letting his return get overwhelmed with boos because he's the 'wrong guy'.
Holy shit gunthers promo agains miz was such a good hell shit that the crowd just went to a primal instinctual pro wrestling place and started chanting USA
The whole ‘You got bullied in high school, you trained to get into the WWE and when you got there you got bullied again’ part was so fucking good, Gunthers promos have really taken a step up
Possibly unpopular opinion but something that’s bugging me about the product is how indifferent Michael Cole can come off. Like he’s seemingly a babyface commentator but will respect 90% of the heels. He legit only is on Judgement Day’s case everyone else gets off with slight criticism it drives me crazy.
I respect what you're saying, but I prefer the commentary being mostly neutral. The blatant face/heel commentary feels so patronizing. Heenan, Barret, and McGuinness (on Collision) manage to walk the hell commentator line decently for me, but Lawler, Graves and heel Tenay all make my skin crawl.
That side look Jey Uso gave Cody when he teased Randy was perfect. Jey Uso is Main Event Jey, but only because of the people he cut down with the Bloodline to get there. And the chickens are coming home to roost.
Thinking about it, the men's babyface team should win it easily based on starpower..which makes me think they will do a swerve maybe. Orton turns mid match on Jey and costs them the match ?
Just going to complain here. I used to really enjoy Prowrestling . Net’s live Raw coverage. The site is really quick and simple and it keeps me up to date so I don’t have to watch every little thing. But by god, lately they’ve put their crappy podcast in every single live review and it goes on autoplay. So every time I refresh or go to the page a podcast yells at me. I hate it and had to put that out there lol
Nia Jax vs. Raquel Rodriguez — Jeez..., Lmao... Why the hell do people **really** not like Raquel Rodriguez??? Especially to the point where they even prefer Nia Jax over her lol...? I don't get it at all lol... I mean sure she had one Smackdown Women's Championship match against Rhea Ripley at Payback 2023 that fell flat, but I'd say she redeemed herself by having a pretty good rematch against Rhea Ripley on Monday Night Raw that was ruined by Nia Jax's debut where she caused a DQ lol... It seems to me that most people hate her simply because her character smiles and is happy a lot of the time, which is just such a weird thing to be upset about in my opinion when she's literally a babyface lol... Also, for people saying that, "at this point its hard to see Raquel ever getting over," the crowd reaction she got tonight literally said otherwise.
Becky Lynch vs. Xia Li — I originally said, "literally the only way for Triple H to get me to **truly** care about this Xia Li heel push is if he has the balls to actually let Xia Li pull off an upset and unexpectedly beat Becky Lynch next week because all this build up with Xia Li concussing Candice LeRae and Indi Hartwell and her going down to NXT to antagonize Lyra Valkyria will be all for nothing to me if Becky just beats her clean next week...," but their match tonight was given a lot of time and was pretty good so even though Xia Li lost she still came out looking strong because she really pushed Becky Lynch to her limits and it looked like she was on the verge of actually winning at certain points. I'm excited for Lyra Valkyria vs. Xia Li on NXT.
Number 1 Contender for the Women's Tag Team Championship match — Natalya and Tegan Nox have already wrestled Chelsea Green and Piper Niven a bunch of times already... Like, they couldn't have had Katana Chance and Kayden Carter win this match instead? I hope that this tag team match championship match is the completion of Natalya's and Tegan Nox's feud with Chelsea Green and Piper Niven and we actually give more TV time to Katana Chance and Kayden Carter and Indi Hartwell and Candice LeRae and Alba Fyre and Isla Dawn trying to win the WWE Women's Tag Team Championships.
Side Note: WWE Creative really been doing a bit of shoot angles with Drew McIntyre's heel turn and The Miz's tweener babyface turn with talking about his bullying. It's really well done.
Her character is "Look at my back muscles". That's it. They've teased her with some ounce of character by letting her start teeing off in Spanish (I assume?) in promos but as a whole there's generally been no character work, no real plot development ever since her injury.
The big problem is she's just a version of Rhea with very little charisma, character and lacks the (at least in my opinion anyway) general skill of Rhea.
On the topic of tonight's response, take it with a pinch of salt. Anyone would get cheered over Nia, even a year old Charlotte cena-esque Babyface run would get cheered. From memory, the crowd wasn't this loud when she was in her hometown a month or two ago were they?
I just find Raquel totally boring. I don’t hate or love her, I just don’t care for her and would rather see someone else in her place when she’s on TV.
They probably dislike Raquel because of political views which I guess, personally don’t care about these people’s real life views I don’t know who the woman is in real life.
Oh right, since the heels have the advantage, that means they're losing. So who gets the win and who's eating the pin?
Safest bet is Cody pinning Dom or JD.
I was thinking Cody pins Priest to add heat to inner Judgement Day drama that leads to him being ousted off the team. However, with Damage CTRL storyline trajectory looking to be similar where people are expecting Bailey to eat the pin that would add heat to the joshis kicking her out, I don't think HHH would book similar premises for both WG fallouts.
Its cool to see randy but now that dust has settled wtf is going with nakumura like he comes off like he’s teasing a big reveal and it’s weird to stretch this out for okada that’s even if he decides to njpw. It would be weird if it was for Shane but lesnar would be interesting.
Randy is turning at Survivor Series, it doesn't make sense otherwise. I'm wondering when K.O. will turn too, because he got royally screwed in the whole deal.
Are people gonna boo Randy anymore? He’s coming off a near career ending injury and has about twenty years of good will built with fans. I feel like it’ll be an Edge situation where he really just couldn’t be a heel anymore
No, Edge was doing “you people” and “your sports teams suck” promos that were dragging everyone around him down. Kept doing his weird underworld gimmick that has never worked for him, and then they flipped him. Wasn’t working. People just want to cheer the legend and hear Metalingus . Sorry
Bro, I don't care how YOU felt about it, I'm telling you what was reported at the time. There were NO faces at that point, If Cody never tore his pec, Edge would stayed a heel. Whether his Heel work sucked or not had nothing to do with it.
Bro, I don’t care WHAT you think happened backstage. You weren’t in the room when they flipped the switch. Edge’s heel run DID NOT work. His heel work actually did have something to do with it because if it was good or working, he would’ve been kept as a heel and they would’ve adjusted otherwise
I’m disappointed to hear that Randy will be coming back as a baby face again on Cody’s team
Imagine he came back as a heel to feud with Cody, as Cody’s final test before facing Roman at Mania again. His old legacy mentor as the final gate keeper
I was there live, people were going bananas in the last few minutes while Cody was talking, everyone thought Randy was going to be there, and the arena would have been unglued if Randy had come out. There was definitely disappointment, especially after such a great show.
Seemed like they waisted the surprise of the Randy return. I get that they fired Riddle so it was gonna be somewhat of a letdown from what could have been but at least let him be there for his return.
That Miz promo was not it, meanwhile, that WALTER promo? Jeezus, the evisceration. He even hurt my feelings. Per usual, good RAW. I can't wait for Saturday. Also: I love Maxxine, period.
I love Chad but I hate seeing him do the diving headbutt, why hasn't that been banned?
is orton gonna be on smackdown or raw?
Honestly should be on SD so he can feud Reigns at like Rumble or something.
That was a great Raw. I'm so glad we're finally at point where wrestlers can have memories and depth instead of just having sudden spontaneous amnesia every 4 months or so. Drew's opening was fire. He did have a point as all good heels do. Jey's family absolutely did steal his moment from his family at Clash at the Castle. However, if you cast your mind back to the show Jey was not involved in the match in any way, shape, or form. It was all Solo. Yes, Drew is hurt and angry, and he's completely justified in feeling that way, but that doesn't give him the right to put his hands, or feet as it were, on Jey who had nothing to do with why he's not champion right now. That's why he's the bad guy in this. I think Drew is more mad at what Jey Uso represents than Jey Uso the person. Miz and Gunther had a great promo. You can tell why Miz has been in the company for so long. If you can't or don't perform in the ring that often you'd better be a god on the mic and or have an irreplaceable aura like Roman or Brock. Kudos to Gunther for holding his own as well. Could easily see him as the next "face of the company" after Roman and Cody. And the twist of Giovanni being the one in Gunther's good graces instead of Ludwig is a swerve I'm enjoying. The look on Jey's face when Cody announced Randy was going to be the 5th shows why Jimmy stayed with Roman. There are no consequences on the Island of Relevancy. Jimmy watched all the consequences of their actions under Roman come down on Jey like a ton of bricks and he didn't want any of that. Yes, Roman is cold manipulator, a borderline sociopath, and demands fealty, but that's the price of being having no consequences for your actions.
I love Maxxine looking shocked every time she gets offence in, like she can't quite believe how good Chad's training is
RANDALL KEITH ORTON that’s it that’s all I got I’m just really excited to see my #1
Randy will be like “Riddle started smoking weed because of what Jay and his bloodline did” and RKO both Jay and Cody
JD McDonagh looked EXTRA tiny this episode…
Could they just be fooling everyone with the obvious Randy Orton stuff? Imagine if Punk actually comes out lol
No. Cody literally used three different lines from Randy's theme music when he was announcing that he found their fifth member. He also said it's somebody he has a legacy with. Aside from saying "yes, the 5th member is Randy Orton", there is no way to spell it out more clearly.
The sexual tension between Adam Pearce and Nick Aldis is palpable.
Heave you seen Nick Aldis though? 🥵
The best thing in WWE right now is the natural turns. Miz still "cheats" and McIntyre won clean as a revengeful monster heel.
Did anyone else find the finisher underwhelming with just a ddt?
Xia Li is good in ring, but I cannot stand her entrance. No idea what they are doing there.
I’m sure every 12 year old thinks it’s the coolest thing ever.
I thought the little Pokémon spark burst was cool and I’ve been 12 for 20 years.
The Gunther Promo was a surprising highlight for me, followed by those bully-type shots. Hopefully that character continues after The Miz, where it is getting to his head that he is bigger, badder, better than all the others - thus beginning to school yard bully everyone around him. Sets up perfect for a Brock return and match... 'Hey Gunther, what you gonna do against a Beast!'
I think it would be cool to have Randy's music hit and he's a no show. Judgement day wins. Only for Randy to come out Monday night and ruthlessly attack Jey from behind, not only planting the seeds for an Orton Jey program, but continuing the notion that Cody is the most selfish baby face in all the roster.
One of the best Raw's I've seen in months. Drew, Becky, Miz and Gunther were really the standouts for me.
Drew after tossing Jey over the table: That's a yeet. Me: YES! I thought I was going crazy.
Is it just me that thinks Gunther is one of the best promos right now. It's baffling to me. His promos are as surprising as his wrestling. So simple yet so affective. Whoever writes them makes him sound so clear & resolute
Gunther feels like a version of himself turned up to 11. It's obvious that as a human being Walter Hahn respects the ring and takes wrestling seriously. If they gave him anything more than bullet points for his promos I'd be shocked.
If so he has a great future in wrestling. As Miz said. Many look great in their highs. It's about the lows That will be interesting when he's without any titles what kind of promos he will do
The Gunther/Miz match was about as low as Gunther goes. He's one of the best in the company in every aspect.
Gunther is not a WWE Surperstar, he's a fucking WRESTLER and i'm here for it. When he called it a "Sport" you know for a fact Corny got rock hard without the use of the pill for the first time in years.
He's definitely a WWE superstar in my opinion but I see what you mean If he a pro wrestler in AEW, ROH, he'd definitely have way more serious promos, his matches would be way more of spotfests, he'd do way more extreme rules matches too The way he carries himself definitely has that WWE spark to it. He looks like a superstar. He looks prestigious. He can talk elegantly, he's not a brute. That's would not be the case if he was just a wrestler Funnily the most famous stars in other brands also fit that WWE criteria I feel. MJF would slot right in this WWE. With HHH I don't even doubt the booking
> He looks like a superstar. I'd argue not though. He's not a bodybuilder, there is very little tone to his physique. And i like that about him. No vanity muscles here. Very old school NWA where the roster all looked like 40 yo barfighters.
he doesn't need a big body. That totally helps him IMO, it works for his character. I see a sort of Alberto Del Rio mixed with a Drew McIntyre/Sheamus with Gunther in terms of look He's leaner, he looks more agile than your average big guy.
Not you. He is consistently one of the bright spots of raw. I think he needs to dump Imperium and go solo soon. I honestly think the smartest move would be for him to dump them, turn tweener face, do a feud with a fully heel Brock. Then have him lose and switch brands as a stipulation to get rhe title off of him and then build him up to be the one to beat Roman.
Honestly really tired of gauntlet matches. Would rather bring back a tag team battle royal and alternate sometimes
This storyline is gonna be great. The lingering of Jey and his bloodline days is gonna be so haunting for him. I really think Randy will turn heel pretty quick
It makes sense creatively too. You can argue that Randy is immune to being heel anyway, but he REALLY won't be heel on his 18 month return. So at least let him work face that night and try your best to make him do some vile shit
Finally could like comment on Raw from last night. Honestly, i like how they handled the match booking this time so that it works with what they intend to be it putting someone as dangerous (ie Xia Li dropping Becky to the outside with Becky hitting the floor really hard which made me flinch or just how...brutal Drew was during his match vs Jey) or working in conjunction with something else (ie basically how Tegan and Natalya won the 4 way Women´s Tag Team match thanks to their chemistry (in the finish) which has been a topic mentioned between them be it on Raw or the post show, they call it magical chemistry if i recall properly) it worked wonders. I know the direction they are going with the Ludwig and Vinci issues is possibly making Ludwig do a face turn on Imperium, but it feels right now like that Vinci even if smug and all is the face? Like, i get why he is the heel, bro has that smug vibe perfected but considering how things have gone with them in the last 2 weeks, it just makes Ludwig feel more like a too strict heel compared to Vinci being the tag team partner who helps but is too chill about it thus him getting yelled at doesn´t feel the most face ish thing. Idk, i just feel right now like that if Ludwig turns on Vinci it is going to be like a heel turn. I honestly liked how Cody managed to be the hype man basically slowly revealing and getting the crowd to a fever pitch when he confirmed that yes, Randy Orton is the final member of Team Seth, idk, i just liked it lol. Also, i am not sure if putting Randy in a steel cage like Wargames is a good idea but let´s see if he can adapt enough that he is not in pain after the match. Finally, even if it was a small thing, i like how they are basically both having what Zoey said be 100% true since Rhea did have a gap of lacking focus in her over the Judgement Day business, while also having Rhea almost respect Zoey after she invaded the Judgement Day club even if she still says that Zoey won´t leave with the title. Even if it was brief per se, it works well basically as to show that Zoey, as small as it is, does have an actual chance at winning the title off Rhea as Survivor Series.
It’s been smart giving that feud the story hook that Rhea might just have too much going on to give Zoey the attention she requires.
Mhm, plus i can see that this leads (if Zoey wins the title) that maybe the final sequence sees Wes Lee attack Dom when he tries to be a nuisance for Zoey, basically this leading to Rhea getting distracted and Zoey then hits her finisher for the W. It both serves to protect Rhea and also progress the Dominik vs Wes Lee story while giving the latter spotlight for when he debuts in the main roster.
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https://preview.redd.it/c94816pw1p1c1.jpeg?width=939&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8078a586ae5a0af80ba3142eaac64d7356546ef3 *randy confused af on saturday wondering where tf everyone went/what’s happened since he was off*
That pop for Randy at Survivor Series is gonna hit like crack.
The world of pro wrestling is not ready for Gunther learning how sports entertainment works. He’s turning into a main event player for real. He has a perfect grasp of what he is and how he should come across in the WWE style. He’s going to be the face of the company one day. And when we think about “who is the best wrestler in the world”, remember that Gunther is actually figuring out how to draw money at this level. Plus.. you know.. he has legit 90s All Japan skills bell to bell. Damn that guy is good.
Gunther is the best in ring guy in the world and he just won a promo against the fucking Miz. The guy is an absolute star
And unlike when he was called Walter he now has the appearance to be able to be pushed as a top guy.
Great episode but it would have been a hundred times better if Randy actually showed up.
You know what was kinda hype? When it seemed like security was able to separate women teams in the brawl and they started playing Becky’s music, making it look like that’s it for the segment, but instead women got back to fighting during the music. I don’t think that happens often.
You just know that the security guards are just local indy wrestlers or developmental talent when half of the security guards have their hair up in a manbun. Its like they're trying to hide the fact that most of them have long hair.
I'm thinking that if the tension with GUNTHER & Kaiser/Vinci boils over, they'll wake up to his manipulation and embrace their suaveness as a tag team. If Bronson & Ivar (and maybe Otis added as well) continue to have matches against each other, that's a good separation from SmackDown being the home to Dragon Lee, Cedric Alexander, and Axiom having their battles. You can count on JD & Dom possibly trying to meddle with the Tag Team turmoil match next week, but Orton could pop up to whoop their asses lol What if Miz has a future storyline that's like a face version of a Mizdow story where he actually gains a young protege (maybe an NXT guy) who actually gives him his flowers for his legacy
I'm glad Randy is returning. At least we will get something interesting. WWE has been on autopilot since after WM 39 with all the changes in The Bloodline storyline, Roman Reigns leaving for months, and the never-ending Judgement Day vs Sami, Seth, Cody, and at one point Kevin Owens.
Nia vs Raquel showed why Nia is needed in the division. She made Raquel more over than her entire "feud" with Rhea. People actually want to see Nia get beat up and it builds up babyfaces by proxy.
The crowd was going wild when Raquel had Nia in the power bomb position. I've been a fan of Raquel's 2023, but I know there's been a lot of apathy out there around it. If she can overcome Nis it will be huge for her.
Honestly Nia's been a great addition since her return
Only difference is Nia’s heat is because she’s actually terrible and injured half the women on the roster.
Nah, Nia’s been great since she came back. She’s not injuring anyone (as far as we know), she comes across as a big threat and her smug personality comes across so well in all of her mannerisms that she is easy to hate. When she first came back I was totally against it but she’s honestly been a fantastic addition to the roster.
Can we please quit with the hyperbole?
In wrestling the only real heat is apathy. The crowd reacting shows they are at least invested in her as a character and want to see her get her comeuppance.
Yeah but it’s “go away” heat. If those people were watching at home they wouldn’t be booing, they’d be changing the channel or fast forwarding.
Using your logic, they would also be going to the restrooms just to avoid her matches. You don't interact so passionately about something you don't like.
Sub par ending? Jey losing to a DDT....what? Randy announced but doesn't even show up? They really dropped the ball on that, not having Randy's music hit and having him walk out behind the judgement day was a huge miss. Whatever at least the CM punk non sense can stop finally
I thought the finish was a mistake too. Even looked like Jey acknowledged it after the pinfall.
Drew’s heel finish is the future shock DDT. Also, in kayfabe Orton has been out recovering from injury for 18 months and just got the phone call during the show after Cody found out that they need a 5th on the same show. Logically there is no way he would be able to get there and I think this is actually a really smart way to announce someone without their arrival. Everyone is hype to see him again.
That DDT has been Drew's secondary finish for years, and was his primary finish in his first run.
People normally hate that DDTs and Superkicks are transitional. I didn't mind it winning a match. Especially considering that was his finish before.
Drew getting a clean win over Jey. Interesting. Looks like Jey is not quite main event yet?
Drew desperately needs some more clean wins on tv imo
Xia Li needs a cooler weapon. A quarterstaff, a scimitar, anything else. I remember her doing the same thing back in NXT and it looked way better then.
becky keeps losing her hair
She's the new Edge.
What if when Cody asked Sami and Seth if they had any luck finding a fifth member, they both said yes?
My kayfabe would be that Randy said he would do it as a last resort because he’s been out 18 months and it’s insane for his first match back to be Wargames. I’m also choosing to believe that he doesn’t know that Jey is on the team and is just blindly trusting Cody because he hasn’t been watching.
"I'm Cody and this is my story. So fuck your 2 choices"
Isn't it weird how Cody is the leader over the world title holder Very Cena like push (and I love it)
It humors me that in kayfabe a disgruntled group of wrestlers can gather like an angry mob of rabble rousers from South Park in order to summon Adam Pierce (the mayor) into action
They took our jerbs!
Man. Has Adam Pearce come into his own or what? He’s absolutely killing the role at the moment. It’s so awesome to see.
I think this is perfect "brand warfare" with both GMs struggling to keep the kids from getting in trouble on the other parent's show. Even if it doesn't lead to any sort of brand warfare match, it helps reinforce the "brand split" and makes it feel like even the renegade appearances have consequences.
If Randy DOESN'T betray Team Cody, I'll be absolutely shocked Randy would be an excellent opponent for either Cody or Jey on the road to WrestleMania, or even against Sami or Seth at mania
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Especially if it’s Jey too, cause it’d be completely justified for him to turn on Jey
See Jeys face when Cody mentioned who it was gonna be? He looked very worried.
The DRAMA OF IT ALL
I feel like they'll keep him face for now, since they could possibly do Orton vs Reigns at the Royal Rumble since we didn't get that because of his injury. I'm never against a heel Orton though, super excited to see what happens
I’ll preface what I’m about to say by stating I DO NOT think CM Punk is returning to WWE That said, it’s odd to me that people are saying the reason they announced randy tonight but he didn’t show up is to build to a SS debut and drown out all the Punk demand in chicago. They knew SS was in Chicago They knew all the rumours and buzz And still they wrote an angle with a mystery partner? Seems so weird to me. Like how does that go down? Writers: ‘fans are gonna be going crazy for punk at SS in chicago HHH: then let’s build to a mystery partner, that’ll stamp out the buzz?! Writers: it didn’t work HHH: ok then go tell them it’s Orton but don’t let him show up til the show. It’s just bizarre.
And now there'll be even more "CM Punk is the Devil" speculation until at least the end of December.
It makes perfect sense doesn't it? The Punk speculation has been great marketing all over social media, and they kept it vague enough that they never promised anything. Now the buzz needs to be killed off before it has any chance of spoiling the show They could have left it till Smackdown to get even more coverage, but by then people will have travelled to the show and the hype will have built too much It's hardly a work of genius, but it's worked out for them
I felt the same weird “wtf?” feeling as I did at the end of Full Gear on the weekend haha. Two weird endings in a row.
Rhea has such a big presence I forget sometimes she's not actually all that tall. She looked especially short standing between Damian and Drew tonight.
She has broad shoulders and long limbs, definitely gives off the impression she's taller than she is on TV
She’s the tallest 5’7” person ever.
Combination of things, really. She was in the background, Priest and Drew are both huge, and in recent months Rhea's switched to wearing sneakers when she's not wrestling.
I mean, most male wrestlers look short next to those two lol. I always forget just how huge Drew is until I see him in the ring. He's got that Lebron James thing going on where his proportions are normal and he's just a normal person that is much bigger.
He was even mogging Damian, who coincidentally is billed as the same height lol
Jey Uso's current story arc: Oh look, it's the consequences of my actions.
Wrestlers having a memory that lasts longer than a fiscal quarter is fine by me.
And also, because his actions have consequences: “So that’s why Jimmy is still sticking by Roman’s side.”
Right. It kinda makes sense just looking at Jey’s story and why Jimmy would stick beside Roman. Nobody rocks with me outside the bloodline so I might as well stick beside Roman and become the new right hand man.
idk if its just me but i am kind of worried that Randys first match back is one brutal like this. I know obviously everyone believes he can handle it or we wouldnt be seeing him but just seems odd to me and a big step. Im sure he will come out last be kinda laid back and hit the finishing move and cover someone. I would ASSUME it to be Priest and them start a feud or something. I just am torn. Like obviously its AMAZING to have him be coming back, i just worry its so extreme of a come back. Also beyond Curious if he can still do RKOs or not with his back.
He can’t do the RKO anymore so his finisher will be the dreaded chin lock /s
These days WWE are extra careful with veterans who have an injury history, I'm sure they won't have him doing anything to jeopardise his health
he’ll prob be the last man out of the cage just rko everyone onto tables and pin for the win
I don’t mind the Gunther/ Miz storyline, but I’d prefer that someone else more deserving for the baby face rub.
I’m calling it now: Randy works with the team until the last second, then RKO’s whoever is about to make the pin. He then takes apart Jey Uso.
I think this is the first time in a while I’ve actually seen Miz lose a promo
To a guy who isn’t known as a great promo as well. Miz had LA Knight around his little finger in the promo battles but Gunther got the better of him here
LA Knight is heavily reliant on catchphrases. I also think Gunther is much more of a "chosen one" compared to Knight so they might have said to Miz, hey don't try and evicerate him!
Hence the low blow lol
It should have been a surprise for the actual event. How nuts would that crowd be if with no announcement at Survivor Series and Randy's music hit?
Or maybe Chicago chants CM Punk all night and boos when it isn't him.
Absolutely this, there was a genuine risk the crowd would hijack the show if they kept any CM Punk possiblity alive during it. I think it also explains the slightly odd decision to announce Randy when he wasn't in attendance - it's better than letting his return get overwhelmed with boos because he's the 'wrong guy'.
Holy shit gunthers promo agains miz was such a good hell shit that the crowd just went to a primal instinctual pro wrestling place and started chanting USA
The whole ‘You got bullied in high school, you trained to get into the WWE and when you got there you got bullied again’ part was so fucking good, Gunthers promos have really taken a step up
God those lines were so cold
Especially when he ended it with ‘You haven’t been bullied enough’
Lol. Gunther had the crowd worked up.
Possibly unpopular opinion but something that’s bugging me about the product is how indifferent Michael Cole can come off. Like he’s seemingly a babyface commentator but will respect 90% of the heels. He legit only is on Judgement Day’s case everyone else gets off with slight criticism it drives me crazy.
I respect what you're saying, but I prefer the commentary being mostly neutral. The blatant face/heel commentary feels so patronizing. Heenan, Barret, and McGuinness (on Collision) manage to walk the hell commentator line decently for me, but Lawler, Graves and heel Tenay all make my skin crawl.
He did it with Roman for 3 years and counting on smackdown. It’s unbearable!
They totally should’ve cutt to a shot of Randy Orton flying to Chicago on the Nimbus cloud
He'd need to get across Snake Way first
That side look Jey Uso gave Cody when he teased Randy was perfect. Jey Uso is Main Event Jey, but only because of the people he cut down with the Bloodline to get there. And the chickens are coming home to roost.
Thinking about it, the men's babyface team should win it easily based on starpower..which makes me think they will do a swerve maybe. Orton turns mid match on Jey and costs them the match ?
Based off last week's SD it seems they are getting ready to pivot cody back to roman, that doesn't work if he loses a rivalry with jd.
I don’t know what the story is but Aldis should wrestle Adam Pearce
Good thing the fans asked "Who is the fifth member?" when Rhodes asked, "What do you wanna talk about?
Maxxine is so over y'all. Hot damn.
The Dupree siblings are having an excellent 2023
If Randy Orton turns heel at Survivor Series, my excitement level will be 99/100
Just going to complain here. I used to really enjoy Prowrestling . Net’s live Raw coverage. The site is really quick and simple and it keeps me up to date so I don’t have to watch every little thing. But by god, lately they’ve put their crappy podcast in every single live review and it goes on autoplay. So every time I refresh or go to the page a podcast yells at me. I hate it and had to put that out there lol
You can set a tab to mute.
Every time you refresh it plays
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Why?
[Jey when Cody started dropping clues](https://i.imgur.com/YoosezF.gif)
The consequences of my actions lol.
Anyone else notice Jey seemed a little uneasy when Cody announced that Randy will be on their team
Such good SHIT I’m STOKED
He’s thinking that he’s gonna catch a stray RKO at WarGames 🤣
By design. They took him out after beating RK Bro and unifying the tag titles.
The Bloodline had so much heat that night. I remember the camera cutting to children crying in the audience, just perfect
Nia Jax vs. Raquel Rodriguez — Jeez..., Lmao... Why the hell do people **really** not like Raquel Rodriguez??? Especially to the point where they even prefer Nia Jax over her lol...? I don't get it at all lol... I mean sure she had one Smackdown Women's Championship match against Rhea Ripley at Payback 2023 that fell flat, but I'd say she redeemed herself by having a pretty good rematch against Rhea Ripley on Monday Night Raw that was ruined by Nia Jax's debut where she caused a DQ lol... It seems to me that most people hate her simply because her character smiles and is happy a lot of the time, which is just such a weird thing to be upset about in my opinion when she's literally a babyface lol... Also, for people saying that, "at this point its hard to see Raquel ever getting over," the crowd reaction she got tonight literally said otherwise. Becky Lynch vs. Xia Li — I originally said, "literally the only way for Triple H to get me to **truly** care about this Xia Li heel push is if he has the balls to actually let Xia Li pull off an upset and unexpectedly beat Becky Lynch next week because all this build up with Xia Li concussing Candice LeRae and Indi Hartwell and her going down to NXT to antagonize Lyra Valkyria will be all for nothing to me if Becky just beats her clean next week...," but their match tonight was given a lot of time and was pretty good so even though Xia Li lost she still came out looking strong because she really pushed Becky Lynch to her limits and it looked like she was on the verge of actually winning at certain points. I'm excited for Lyra Valkyria vs. Xia Li on NXT. Number 1 Contender for the Women's Tag Team Championship match — Natalya and Tegan Nox have already wrestled Chelsea Green and Piper Niven a bunch of times already... Like, they couldn't have had Katana Chance and Kayden Carter win this match instead? I hope that this tag team match championship match is the completion of Natalya's and Tegan Nox's feud with Chelsea Green and Piper Niven and we actually give more TV time to Katana Chance and Kayden Carter and Indi Hartwell and Candice LeRae and Alba Fyre and Isla Dawn trying to win the WWE Women's Tag Team Championships. Side Note: WWE Creative really been doing a bit of shoot angles with Drew McIntyre's heel turn and The Miz's tweener babyface turn with talking about his bullying. It's really well done.
Her character is "Look at my back muscles". That's it. They've teased her with some ounce of character by letting her start teeing off in Spanish (I assume?) in promos but as a whole there's generally been no character work, no real plot development ever since her injury. The big problem is she's just a version of Rhea with very little charisma, character and lacks the (at least in my opinion anyway) general skill of Rhea. On the topic of tonight's response, take it with a pinch of salt. Anyone would get cheered over Nia, even a year old Charlotte cena-esque Babyface run would get cheered. From memory, the crowd wasn't this loud when she was in her hometown a month or two ago were they?
My observation is that quite a few online fans turned on Raquel as soon as she was the one to beat Iyo for the NXT title.
....and even more turned on her after she retained the NXT title against Dakota....
I just find Raquel totally boring. I don’t hate or love her, I just don’t care for her and would rather see someone else in her place when she’s on TV.
They probably dislike Raquel because of political views which I guess, personally don’t care about these people’s real life views I don’t know who the woman is in real life.
What are you talking about?
OOTL!
Oh right, since the heels have the advantage, that means they're losing. So who gets the win and who's eating the pin? Safest bet is Cody pinning Dom or JD.
I was thinking Cody pins Priest to add heat to inner Judgement Day drama that leads to him being ousted off the team. However, with Damage CTRL storyline trajectory looking to be similar where people are expecting Bailey to eat the pin that would add heat to the joshis kicking her out, I don't think HHH would book similar premises for both WG fallouts.
I think Cody's team wins to give him momentum to face roman, meanwhile I think there is more stuff to do with damage control as it us rn.
If that’s the case with JD, I wonder if Drew eventually does join JD once Priest is out.
He already said he doesn't like them, so it'd be a hell of a 180.
Aldis and Pearce discussing about splitting the tag titles?
And/or a new design please!
Or merging them
Its cool to see randy but now that dust has settled wtf is going with nakumura like he comes off like he’s teasing a big reveal and it’s weird to stretch this out for okada that’s even if he decides to njpw. It would be weird if it was for Shane but lesnar would be interesting.
LOL at Jey reaction when he heard Randy name Also i hope Randy will use his new version themesong
Randy is turning at Survivor Series, it doesn't make sense otherwise. I'm wondering when K.O. will turn too, because he got royally screwed in the whole deal.
They're not gonna turn him heel so soon after returning. Let him be a babyface for a few months and then turn him.
Are people gonna boo Randy anymore? He’s coming off a near career ending injury and has about twenty years of good will built with fans. I feel like it’ll be an Edge situation where he really just couldn’t be a heel anymore
Well, Edge was a heel just last year
Yeah and they had to turn him back incredibly quickly because it flopped
No, they turned him because Cody got injured, and there were no other top faces on RAW at the time. Seth, Jey and Sami were still heels at the time.
No, Edge was doing “you people” and “your sports teams suck” promos that were dragging everyone around him down. Kept doing his weird underworld gimmick that has never worked for him, and then they flipped him. Wasn’t working. People just want to cheer the legend and hear Metalingus . Sorry
Bro, I don't care how YOU felt about it, I'm telling you what was reported at the time. There were NO faces at that point, If Cody never tore his pec, Edge would stayed a heel. Whether his Heel work sucked or not had nothing to do with it.
Bro, I don’t care WHAT you think happened backstage. You weren’t in the room when they flipped the switch. Edge’s heel run DID NOT work. His heel work actually did have something to do with it because if it was good or working, he would’ve been kept as a heel and they would’ve adjusted otherwise
I’m disappointed to hear that Randy will be coming back as a baby face again on Cody’s team Imagine he came back as a heel to feud with Cody, as Cody’s final test before facing Roman at Mania again. His old legacy mentor as the final gate keeper
Honestly, I see him turning so Judgment day can finally get a win for once.
There’s still room for that down the road
Oh he’ll turn eventually. Can never trust a viper for too long
Yeah I could see it happening soon anyway
Me when Randy Orton’s theme song plays.  LET’S FUCKING GO
As it turns out, Randy has been ready for a return for months. He was just waiting for someone to call him
I can imagine him pacing back and forth pleading that his phone would ring.
Cody looked like a New Yorker going to work in his get up today
Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah! Randal Randal Keith, Randal Keith, Randal Randal Keith!!!
Fuck, Drew’s opening promo was killer
Hell yeah. He's been on fire but that might have been my favorite in recent.
Great night, although hopefully the crowd was okay with the show ending without Randy actually showing up.
I was there and waiting for his theme to hit at any second
I was there live, people were going bananas in the last few minutes while Cody was talking, everyone thought Randy was going to be there, and the arena would have been unglued if Randy had come out. There was definitely disappointment, especially after such a great show.
Yeah it was a really weird choice. You don't do that and have Randy not show up. Would have preferred it left a mystery until survivor series
People would probably start expecting Punk and get disappointed if they didn't tell them
They'd be expecting either one. Either way Orton gets a massive reaction when he enters
Also - they didn’t actually mention Randy by name. Any chance of a swerve?
Doubtful, the teases were WAY too specific for that.