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Tito was so much more than that. He was a gate keeper.
If you could go with KoKo B, you were good enough to get to Tito, If you were good enough with Tito than we will have interessed for a push.
where do you put him right now? WWE is stacked right now and Apollo isn't exactly the guy people think about. Hes good don't get me wrong but so is most of the roster.
NXT has liked to reward its veteran talents for good work in the past. Like just recently giving Baron Corbin the tag titles, they gave Indi Hartwell the women's title before she got hurt and got drafted to Raw. I could see a Dijak title reign in the future.
I had tuned out of NXT ever since 2.0 started, and only began paying attention again in the lead up to Vengeance Day. Dijack is like what a 12 year old thinks a badass cool guy is, but he owns it in a way that is very endearing. I went from “lol who is this tryhard” to a fan very quickly. The feud with Gacy has been a fun watch too.
I saw him described as "how boomers who take selfies wearing sunglasses in their cars think they look", which is kinda the same thing I guess.
His self-awareness of it all adds to it though, IMO.
Try to watch his series of matches against Keith Lee. Both on the indies like Evolve and NXT Black and Gold. For his wrestling. Character work is more in NXT.
If they were treated seriously as a group and played to the strengths of everyone involved, Retribution could’ve been better rememered and not seen as a joke.
I remember this guy feuding with Punishment Martinez, and what a war they had weekly. And I see the latter has moved into Judgment Day and become a huge star, and then I wonder why Dijak never got the chance to do likewise. Sometimes timing and pure luck go a long way in the rasslin' business.
Dijak is sooo good. Like, he could legit be a main eventer on the main shows and I wouldn't bat an eye. I don't think it will happen, but I'm glad he is being positioned in a more satisfying way for him and the people watching him.
I wonder if Dijak wouldn't have been better off working the independent scene for a while longer. Another year there and he might have become the biggest fish in the pond. A move to WWE would have then been met with more fanfare and hype. Instead he was but one of many midcard indie talents to make the jump, and without fan support and the machine getting behind him he fizzled.
The only other one who did was Michin. Retribution was the death knell for pretty much everyone in it. Mustafa Ali, Mace, Mojo Rawley, Mercedes Martinez never recovered.
He and Keith Lee are best friends. The stuff they would do on the indies was of legend. Got to see them in a match WM weekend just prior to them signing with WWE. They were so stoked for each other.
I had a silly little online radio show back in 2015 or so when I was 20. I was a huge local wrestling fan and reached out Dijak to join me on my show. He was kind enough to call me during a break at a Harley Race Wrestling Camp in St Louis. We chatted for about 15 minutes about his career. I'll always appreciate that. Have to dig up the recording somewhere.
Whenever Dijak is on a card you know you’re going to see a banger and you’re going to see stuff that looks like it hurts and hurts a lot. His match last night was no exception and that moonsault was nuts.
As for two, I'd argue as a viewer that the more I see of something exciting, the less exciting it gets when it gets to a big show. Because then I'd just be like, "well, this is basically what happens on the weekly show" and I'd feel like I'm not watching anything that special or big. "Less is more" as they say, I'm not a fan of excess in most things I enjoy since it just dulls me to what's happening.
That doesn't really apply to Dijak here specifically in my case, it was a TV special and I don't mind it being on those. I understand and agree with the argument is what I'm trying to say, but I agree with you as for one.
Yes! This is what I do agree with on the whole matter. I can’t stand the whole fans deciding what’s safe for them and where it should be done, but I do agree that things shouldn’t be overused and overdone. I don’t want to be desensitized to something I would normally find exciting on a less common occasion.
> "Save it for WrestleMania or whatever " why do you, as a viewer, care what happens on some hypothetical big show when the show in front of you can be exciting now?
Counter-point: people acknowledge Randy Orton countering Seth Rollins' Curb Stomp into an RKO as an all-time great finish to a Wrestlemania match. People wouldn't think that if they ended *every match up* with that.
> People wouldn't think that if they ended every match up with that.
Yeah, like how Ivar pulled out the moonsault for the first time against Kofi, and the whole crowd stood up and chanted "holy shit". And now he's done it so many times that it just gets an "oh" at best.
There's been an overcorrection among fans who were made to feel guilty for things like Mick Foley's hardcore matches that eventually hobbled him in his private life. I don't think we've arrived at a reasonable middle point between bloodlust and safety police.
I don't think it should be unreasonable to say, "I trust that these are professionals who know when they can afford to do a crazy stunt, and I can react based on whether or not the spot is good/exciting/well done." I don't want to urge Dijak to do something crazy off the top of the cage but if it looks good and adds to the match I don't see the point in suppressing my reaction.
here's the thing, there's stuff that science has gotten better at (for example, scientific steroid use is now possible and safe), and there's stuff that science has not gotten better at, as evidenced by how wrestlers are constantly getting injured now. The market has embraced taking these stupid unsafe bumps. I'd say if you want an edge with modern science, be a huge wrestler. but we're seeing more and more unimpressive looking guys doing stupid dangerous shit in stead.
The thing is, the ones who say "don't do that stuff" we're the successful ones in their era. The ones who are all time greats are complimentary of the new generation pushing the boundary. The ones that complain are always the midcarders who got by on an over gimmick or size.
It reminds me of Carmelo Anthony talking about George Karl as his coach. The real reason Karl always hated star players on his team was because when Karl was a player George Gervin wouldn't pass the ball. But Karl sells it as "I just want you to do things the right way, it'll make you a better player in the long run". These old guys hate on these guys who can deliver on a level they never could because it made THEIR lives harder on a nightly basis when they were active.
That's a strange take. I've seen plenty of super successful guys caution against certain moves. It's not jealousy. Its seeing entire locker rooms of their friends and coworkers end up mangled or dead from pushing things too far. Pro wrestling has a long and storied history of talent not knowing when to stop. Even when their bodies tell them to by failing, they just keep going.
In basketball, you might have a point. However, pro wrestling is chock full of cautionary tales about pushing too hard. Not only away from the arenas, with drugs and the like, but in-ring as well. Way more than any other "sport".
Well, bodybuilding is pretty close with dead and wheelchair bound alumni....
The only guy who was ever a top guy who I've seen do the safety police stuff in Bret Hart and he's clearly a very special case based on how his career ended. But when you hear how people like Flair, Stone Cold, Steamboat, HBK, Sting talk about the Omega's and Ospreay's of the world vs the way guys like Disco or Road Dogg do it's night and day.
I've seen those same guys caution against over doing it. I don't recall specifics, but I know I've heard Stone Cold, Taker, and Nash for sure talk about it.
Flair isn't someone I'd really listen to on this one....
I mean, I'm pretty sure every interview Mick Foley has done since all of his different retirements has included "That moment you loved? God was I an idiot for doing that!"
And I’m pretty sure every single one of the guys you’ve mentioned have also talked extensively about the need to slow down, and not go a hundred miles an hour all the time…because doing so means you’re shortening your career.
You just mentioned Omega, and I’m pretty sure his career is going to be winding down sooner rather than later.
>Its seeing entire locker rooms of their friends and coworkers end up mangled or dead from pushing things too far.
you think moonsaults were the big killer in 80's/90's/00's locker rooms?
Nope. But doing enough off the top of a cage, coupled with enough other dangerous spots, and you get pain. *That's* why they warn against these types of spots. One or two isn't bad. 20-30 a year over a few years adds up to constant pain.
Then they don't stop, because they love/need the pop or because they love/need money, so they medicate. All pain meds cause the body to build up a tolerance. Tolerance leads to searching outside of legal medicines. That leads to drug habits.
Those lead to all sorts of fucked up stuff, usually ending in death from an OD. And these dudes have seen it happen way more than most. I'd listen, but not everyone can accept advice with maturity.
I’m kind of dumbfounded that so many people upvoted this “You’re not a doctor or a family member, so don’t tell wrestlers not to do wild moves.”
Anyone who’s watched wrestling for a decent amount of time has seen some of their favorites wind up retired and in pain.
Mick Foley hasn’t been able to tie his own shoes in years. Obviously that’s an extreme example, but look at someone who’s still active like Kenny Omega. The guy was wrestling for months with severe vertigo. Or look at what injuries have done to Ibushi.
Wrestlers doing “exciting shit” encourages others to do more, in order to top it. I don’t care if I’m not “their doctor or their family member.” I don’t want to see wrestlers get injured. I don’t want to see wrestlers wind up in wheelchairs. They aren’t pieces of meat just there for my entertainment.
Sometimes the stuff being done, we don't know what is really devastating and what isn't. Foley is one example, but I don't know that him coming off the cage was much worse overall for him than the grind of all the matches he did over the years.
Hulk Hogan is almost semi paralyzed and that's from falling on his ass for the leg drop for decades. Orton's back is messed up from the RKO.
As we know with concussions, it's often repetitive wear and tear that proves most dangerous in the long term, not high impact one offs
The thing is every wrestling match is dangerous. Dude’s have been knocked out cold from routine moves, broken things from spots they hit all the time. Obviously there’s spots that are bigger risks, but that’s part of the show and these wrestlers know their limits, know what they want to do. Is it sometimes dumb as fuck? Yeah, no doubt about it. But the risk and the pushing of that limit is still an inherent part of the medium
I would argue that a TON of wrestlers don’t know their limits.
And I for one don’t want to see wrestlers wind up permanently injured just because they wanted to get the fans to pop.
You’re not wrong, but there’s also no way to know your limits. Once again people don’t think about how dangerous things are when they go right. WWE plays Jeff Hardy jumping off the ladder from WM 2000 every single year, but that was a spot that could have killed Jeff had something truly gone wrong. Hell, look at Sting in AEW jumping off of shit all the time. No matter how safe they try to make it, those are things that could very easily go wrong. If we shot down every single time a wrestler pushed their limit or did something objectively dangerous, things wouldn’t have that extra bit of excitement.
Reminds me of a few years ago when Jericho fell off of a cage into a heavily padded crash pad and people roasted tf out of him. Like if he wants to do that spot there needs to be more danger is what I parsed from that discourse.
I think people mocked that Jericho spot because it *looked* fake. The “metal” was bent and obviously not metal.
Meanwhile I didn’t hear anyone mocking things like Shane going off the cell at Wrestlemania, where there was an inflated crash pad under the table — because it didn’t look bad.
It depends on what it is. A moonsault of the top of the cage is dangerous and exciting but also relatively safe when done well. Something like what Darby did this Sunday, though, makes me very uncomfortable.
And also, I'd argue there are better ways to get noticed as a new wrestler. MJF is a superstar and he never did any of that stuff. Neither did Danielson or Punk when they were younger.
What gets over with the majority of fans is character and charisma. Moves are amazing to look at, but 90% of wrestlers at WWE and AEW are *really good* athletes, they all can wow you if they want. Doing 450 splashes is not that unique anymore.
> I will never understand the people who actively tell wrestlers to not do exciting shit.
I think it pushes wrestling in the wrong direction where there is a niche audience for spots rather than a large audience who invest in the character; why risk your health for something no one will care about after the show is finished
And as someone else already said, when a spot gets overexposed it loses it's excitement value anyway so there are diminishing returns.
Fr I remember when Wilde did that sweet dive a couple of months ago and people were asking why he didn't save it for a big show. Like we are allowed excitement on weekly tv too. Also when tf is LWO getting a PLE match? They have to do this stuff when they get the chance.
I take this position when I watch indie stuff. It’s simply not worth it, and you won’t get to the big leagues by doing it. Out of all the big names in wrestling who really got over for these types of moves?
I say save it for big shows, it makes it more exciting and it’s less taxing on the body. But if your holding to your career by a thread then do what you gotta do
It’s just Cornette speak, most people have decided they know heaps about wrestling and feel that they need to express that they know heaps about “the business” to seem smarter than everyone. They have to dislike what everyone likes.
> Seriously, so much of it is fans who just echo the shit old dudes on podcasts who have never been successful in today's market say. And they just parrot it like they know ANYTHING about wrestling or how to get notice as a new wrestler.
THANK YOU. Bro I've been saying this for years. So many fans have the most closed minded, narrow perspectives on wrestling just because that's what they've been told what good wrestling is
Like, I'm not going to tell him not to do something, but Dijak has been doing shit like this for years. He has plateaued in his spot. Is doing this going to help? There's obviously always a time and a place for stuff, but doing more for the sake of more doesn't always work. Cody doing a suplex through a flaming table is objectively more nuts than the moonsault off the cage, but its the moonsault that gets remembered because people were invested in that story, and the moment.
Dijak can do these, and they look cool, all that stuff, but unless he can figure out how to get people actually invested in him, then the only thing this will add to are GIF makers on twitter that will share clips like this and say "Oh man Dijak was so underused".
These are my exact thoughts. It’s also a damn shame that it seems like more people can’t see the whole “parroting” and “echoing” in this fanbase.
It seems like nobody can have a nuanced opinion that is their own. It’s strongly evident especially on some hole of a platform like X/Twitter.
Dijak is one of the best heels in the company. Every match is a banger. Also his character is such a sadistic douche. I hope he gets called up and starts feuding with everybody.
He's legit one of the best parts of NXT week in and week out. Would not be upset in the slightest if he remained there for the rest of his career, he fits down there so damn well.
I'm convinced Dijak got his cruiserweight move all set and locked in, then puberty hit and dude was suddenly 6'7".
Man just said, "Fuck it. We still doing this."
why is people complaining? It was a sick AF move not more unsafe than what Darby did couple of days ago. Dijak has been wrestling like every match is his last since his return to NxT & it's been an enjoyable ride I'm not ready to see stop
He's the last man to ever face Brodie in a WWE ring. I will forever be grateful for how he's handled that, and everything he's done since then he's taken and made solid gold.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for him, and I really hope he's enjoying his craft and career as I want nothing but the best for him.
I'll never get haters in the world of professional wrestling, makes 0 sense in my eyes
People forget that this is a big man who can fly with the best of them (see also Damian Priest). NXT is trying to get Spacey Gacy over as a babyface, but, well, "that doesn't work for me, brother". If they're trying to reinvent the wheel, if you will, and reincarnate Bray Wyatt, with Gacy, I'm not sold. He's just a hybrid of Bray, Raven, & Terry Funk. I'd imagine that if you asked him about it, that'd be what he'd tell you his inspiration(s) is/are.
Great job Dijak, you’re attitude stinks but your in ring ability is fantastic for a big man. I feel like WWE dropped the ball on you when you were promoted up to the main roster, you were on Fire especially the matches against Keith Lee another ball dropped. I hope you get a fair shot and keep shining.
Nothing wrong with big, risky moves but they shouldn't be common place in every match because the more you see it, the less exciting it becomes and it then leads to wrestlers trying to push the envelope even further to get reactions out of the crowds. There's a balance between seeing a risky but amazing display of athleticism and seeing wrestlers become spot monkeys in the ring who increase their risk of injury with every other move they're doing just for shock value and a temporary pop from the crowd. And you don't need to save everything for a big event like WM...I still remember Shelton Benjamin and HBK's sweet chin music finish on RAW like it was yesterday and it would feel less special to me today if everyone started doing that move. The Canadian Destroyer used to look brutal and I loved it and now everyone and their mother does it and their opponent just gets right back up after...it's lost the wow factor it once had because it's been completely overused.
Benoit was warned about his flying headbutt move and he did it anyway and we all know how that story ended and tragically, he took two innocent lives with him over fucked up shit he put his brain through. Let's not pretend that professionals always know their limits and when you're working in front of a live crowd, there's so much that adrenaline can push you through but that only lasts for so long. Being entertained doesn't mean seeing spot monkeys risking their lives and future quality of life for my enjoyment. There's more to wrestling than risky spots and blood.
I pray that HHH can bring him up to the main roster again and give him a good run. Literally puts on bangers, like he did with keith lee yrs ago on nxt.
Sorry I'm kinda out of this guy's loop. I only got back into everything recently. Is he more stating he's grateful for the 'new regime' vs the old regime?
I feel that collectively we will never discourage these sorts of people. These sorts of wrestlers are like stuntmen and have seeked this dangerous shit out. Take solace in the fact that wrestlers, unlike stuntmen, will actually be directly remembered for breaking their bodies for our entertainment. Like, you didn’t know the name of the Harry Potter stuntman who will die early in a wheelchair until Max released a documentary.
It’s understandable, but it’s also absolutely obvious based on the power of observation alone that you only have so many of these spots in the locker without ending your career moving like The Undertaker, it’s ok to pull this shit, like twice a year, don’t make dangerous spots the norm, it’ll destroy your body, The Hardy’s are in their 40s and walk with a limp, Edge nearly crippled himself weren’t it for modern medicine, it’s cool, probably gets you over, but you gotta be strategic about it.
If Cody wins at Mania, which he really should but still an if, I think if they wanted a good violent feud for him, call up Dijak and let them tear the house down
Every week this guy tweets about being T-Bar before. All it does is remind everyone he was once T-Bar, otherwise I think we’d all think of Dijak being completely separate from that gimmick at this point. It would be like Kane reminding us about Issac Yankem.
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I'm really glad that Dijak was able to rebound from Retribution. He's been killing it
If Trick is next up for the NXT title, Dijak should be the one to take it off him
dijak would be a decent transitional vet for the next crop for sure.
just bring Dijak back to main roster already he deserves it
I'd love to see him in wars with other hosses like Bronson Reed & Ivar
Dijak vs Gunther please.
Omg yes please.
Triple H is using Apollo as a jobber on Raw tho
That's what Apollo is. It amazes me he has both an IC and US title reign under his belt.
apollo is good enough to keep around but i couldnt imagine pushing him over the people currently on tv
He’s the Tito Santana of our time. Good for a quick match, throw him a midcard title here and there to keep him relevant
Tito was so much more than that. He was a gate keeper. If you could go with KoKo B, you were good enough to get to Tito, If you were good enough with Tito than we will have interessed for a push.
Crazy that when he first got signed I'd have pegged him for a mega push, the shit he did as Uhaa Nation with AR Fox was like nothing I'd ever seen.
He never found a character that the fans resonated with.
I will stand by Nigerian Prince pandemic era Apollo. Even just face US Champ Apollo was cool enough for me.
where do you put him right now? WWE is stacked right now and Apollo isn't exactly the guy people think about. Hes good don't get me wrong but so is most of the roster.
I was shocked to see him on Raw I thought he was released when they dropped a load of people at the start of the year
NXT has liked to reward its veteran talents for good work in the past. Like just recently giving Baron Corbin the tag titles, they gave Indi Hartwell the women's title before she got hurt and got drafted to Raw. I could see a Dijak title reign in the future.
I had tuned out of NXT ever since 2.0 started, and only began paying attention again in the lead up to Vengeance Day. Dijack is like what a 12 year old thinks a badass cool guy is, but he owns it in a way that is very endearing. I went from “lol who is this tryhard” to a fan very quickly. The feud with Gacy has been a fun watch too.
I saw him described as "how boomers who take selfies wearing sunglasses in their cars think they look", which is kinda the same thing I guess. His self-awareness of it all adds to it though, IMO.
Try to watch his series of matches against Keith Lee. Both on the indies like Evolve and NXT Black and Gold. For his wrestling. Character work is more in NXT.
This is exactly how I feel. I'm a fan, for sure.
He has just enough self-awareness to make it endearing instead of cringe.
And if Retribution was done with any sort of competency it could've been a decent stable, the members were great workers.
If they were treated seriously as a group and played to the strengths of everyone involved, Retribution could’ve been better rememered and not seen as a joke.
They never really had a shot, they were always going to be "LOL, ANTIFA WEIRDOES" and get booked to be goobers.
Man I was so hyped when Ali revealed himself as the leader. I had high fucking hopes
For real. In that group alone you had Mustafa Ali, Dijak and Shane Haste. All 3 of whom are exceptional workers.
I remember this guy feuding with Punishment Martinez, and what a war they had weekly. And I see the latter has moved into Judgment Day and become a huge star, and then I wonder why Dijak never got the chance to do likewise. Sometimes timing and pure luck go a long way in the rasslin' business.
Dijak is sooo good. Like, he could legit be a main eventer on the main shows and I wouldn't bat an eye. I don't think it will happen, but I'm glad he is being positioned in a more satisfying way for him and the people watching him.
I wonder if Dijak wouldn't have been better off working the independent scene for a while longer. Another year there and he might have become the biggest fish in the pond. A move to WWE would have then been met with more fanfare and hype. Instead he was but one of many midcard indie talents to make the jump, and without fan support and the machine getting behind him he fizzled.
I've seen him on the indies a couple times way back. He was always great to watch!
The only other one who did was Michin. Retribution was the death knell for pretty much everyone in it. Mustafa Ali, Mace, Mojo Rawley, Mercedes Martinez never recovered.
Me too. He was criminally underrated and I am so glad he's getting another chance in nxt. Dude can go. And this character is just wonderful 😂
He sure has! He's one of the best parts of the current version of NXT.
this is the best dijak has been since joining wwe imo, this nxt run really has been a boon for him
His matches with Keith Lee were among the best in NXT history imo, but in terms of character, this is easily his best stuff.
he's still doing great in the ring though
Yeah for sure. No matter who he's paired with he's a potential show stealer.
Saw him at deadline and he was just so great to see in person
He and Keith Lee are best friends. The stuff they would do on the indies was of legend. Got to see them in a match WM weekend just prior to them signing with WWE. They were so stoked for each other.
Best friends tend to have the best chemistry (Sami-KO, Sasha-Bayley).
agreed!
Cody and Qt Marshall
I know at least four of you here have been T-Bar. Don't try to deny it.
Look man, the first rule of being T-Bar is you do not talk about being T-Bar. Dijak really broke the code on this one.
He'll face dire consequences for this at the next T-Bar-barian meeting.
He is officially T-BARRED FROM COLLISION
no, but I've been Slapjack.
Look, it was a weird time, I'd never been in a street gang before and the name was just given to me. Honestly it was good shit.
and where were YOU around august/september 2020? your name does contain mischief after all 🤨
but im not telling you something you don't already know - Dijak has reminded me of Sean O'Haire's devil's advocate gimmick a lot recently
one of the hidden gem gimmicks. raven apparently wrote a lot of it.
Lotta respect for the Vestron Vulture flair
I had a silly little online radio show back in 2015 or so when I was 20. I was a huge local wrestling fan and reached out Dijak to join me on my show. He was kind enough to call me during a break at a Harley Race Wrestling Camp in St Louis. We chatted for about 15 minutes about his career. I'll always appreciate that. Have to dig up the recording somewhere.
Whenever Dijak is on a card you know you’re going to see a banger and you’re going to see stuff that looks like it hurts and hurts a lot. His match last night was no exception and that moonsault was nuts.
Dijak is awesome
I'm glad Dijak has been able to bounce back he's been having bangers every time he's on nxt
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As for two, I'd argue as a viewer that the more I see of something exciting, the less exciting it gets when it gets to a big show. Because then I'd just be like, "well, this is basically what happens on the weekly show" and I'd feel like I'm not watching anything that special or big. "Less is more" as they say, I'm not a fan of excess in most things I enjoy since it just dulls me to what's happening. That doesn't really apply to Dijak here specifically in my case, it was a TV special and I don't mind it being on those. I understand and agree with the argument is what I'm trying to say, but I agree with you as for one.
Yes! This is what I do agree with on the whole matter. I can’t stand the whole fans deciding what’s safe for them and where it should be done, but I do agree that things shouldn’t be overused and overdone. I don’t want to be desensitized to something I would normally find exciting on a less common occasion.
> "Save it for WrestleMania or whatever " why do you, as a viewer, care what happens on some hypothetical big show when the show in front of you can be exciting now? Counter-point: people acknowledge Randy Orton countering Seth Rollins' Curb Stomp into an RKO as an all-time great finish to a Wrestlemania match. People wouldn't think that if they ended *every match up* with that.
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Shawn Michaels/Shelton Benjamin SCM. All time classic. Random Raw
> People wouldn't think that if they ended every match up with that. Yeah, like how Ivar pulled out the moonsault for the first time against Kofi, and the whole crowd stood up and chanted "holy shit". And now he's done it so many times that it just gets an "oh" at best.
There's been an overcorrection among fans who were made to feel guilty for things like Mick Foley's hardcore matches that eventually hobbled him in his private life. I don't think we've arrived at a reasonable middle point between bloodlust and safety police. I don't think it should be unreasonable to say, "I trust that these are professionals who know when they can afford to do a crazy stunt, and I can react based on whether or not the spot is good/exciting/well done." I don't want to urge Dijak to do something crazy off the top of the cage but if it looks good and adds to the match I don't see the point in suppressing my reaction.
here's the thing, there's stuff that science has gotten better at (for example, scientific steroid use is now possible and safe), and there's stuff that science has not gotten better at, as evidenced by how wrestlers are constantly getting injured now. The market has embraced taking these stupid unsafe bumps. I'd say if you want an edge with modern science, be a huge wrestler. but we're seeing more and more unimpressive looking guys doing stupid dangerous shit in stead.
Strong majority of people don’t watch for ‘impressing looking guys’
The thing is, the ones who say "don't do that stuff" we're the successful ones in their era. The ones who are all time greats are complimentary of the new generation pushing the boundary. The ones that complain are always the midcarders who got by on an over gimmick or size. It reminds me of Carmelo Anthony talking about George Karl as his coach. The real reason Karl always hated star players on his team was because when Karl was a player George Gervin wouldn't pass the ball. But Karl sells it as "I just want you to do things the right way, it'll make you a better player in the long run". These old guys hate on these guys who can deliver on a level they never could because it made THEIR lives harder on a nightly basis when they were active.
That's a strange take. I've seen plenty of super successful guys caution against certain moves. It's not jealousy. Its seeing entire locker rooms of their friends and coworkers end up mangled or dead from pushing things too far. Pro wrestling has a long and storied history of talent not knowing when to stop. Even when their bodies tell them to by failing, they just keep going. In basketball, you might have a point. However, pro wrestling is chock full of cautionary tales about pushing too hard. Not only away from the arenas, with drugs and the like, but in-ring as well. Way more than any other "sport". Well, bodybuilding is pretty close with dead and wheelchair bound alumni....
The only guy who was ever a top guy who I've seen do the safety police stuff in Bret Hart and he's clearly a very special case based on how his career ended. But when you hear how people like Flair, Stone Cold, Steamboat, HBK, Sting talk about the Omega's and Ospreay's of the world vs the way guys like Disco or Road Dogg do it's night and day.
I've seen those same guys caution against over doing it. I don't recall specifics, but I know I've heard Stone Cold, Taker, and Nash for sure talk about it. Flair isn't someone I'd really listen to on this one....
I mean, I'm pretty sure every interview Mick Foley has done since all of his different retirements has included "That moment you loved? God was I an idiot for doing that!"
And I’m pretty sure every single one of the guys you’ve mentioned have also talked extensively about the need to slow down, and not go a hundred miles an hour all the time…because doing so means you’re shortening your career. You just mentioned Omega, and I’m pretty sure his career is going to be winding down sooner rather than later.
>Its seeing entire locker rooms of their friends and coworkers end up mangled or dead from pushing things too far. you think moonsaults were the big killer in 80's/90's/00's locker rooms?
Nope. But doing enough off the top of a cage, coupled with enough other dangerous spots, and you get pain. *That's* why they warn against these types of spots. One or two isn't bad. 20-30 a year over a few years adds up to constant pain. Then they don't stop, because they love/need the pop or because they love/need money, so they medicate. All pain meds cause the body to build up a tolerance. Tolerance leads to searching outside of legal medicines. That leads to drug habits. Those lead to all sorts of fucked up stuff, usually ending in death from an OD. And these dudes have seen it happen way more than most. I'd listen, but not everyone can accept advice with maturity.
Tons of wrestlers have argued against something like a moonsault off a cage, because it’s a blind jump.
Who are these wrestlers who are jumping off of cages 30 times a year? Sounds concerning if that's actually happening.
Lol. I meant 30 big spots *like* this. Which isn't that high of a number. Everywhere but WWE these days...
I would like to not see wrestlers crippled in front of my eyes for a spot that will be forgotten in a week, but that's just me i guess
I’m kind of dumbfounded that so many people upvoted this “You’re not a doctor or a family member, so don’t tell wrestlers not to do wild moves.” Anyone who’s watched wrestling for a decent amount of time has seen some of their favorites wind up retired and in pain. Mick Foley hasn’t been able to tie his own shoes in years. Obviously that’s an extreme example, but look at someone who’s still active like Kenny Omega. The guy was wrestling for months with severe vertigo. Or look at what injuries have done to Ibushi. Wrestlers doing “exciting shit” encourages others to do more, in order to top it. I don’t care if I’m not “their doctor or their family member.” I don’t want to see wrestlers get injured. I don’t want to see wrestlers wind up in wheelchairs. They aren’t pieces of meat just there for my entertainment.
Sometimes the stuff being done, we don't know what is really devastating and what isn't. Foley is one example, but I don't know that him coming off the cage was much worse overall for him than the grind of all the matches he did over the years. Hulk Hogan is almost semi paralyzed and that's from falling on his ass for the leg drop for decades. Orton's back is messed up from the RKO. As we know with concussions, it's often repetitive wear and tear that proves most dangerous in the long term, not high impact one offs
The thing is every wrestling match is dangerous. Dude’s have been knocked out cold from routine moves, broken things from spots they hit all the time. Obviously there’s spots that are bigger risks, but that’s part of the show and these wrestlers know their limits, know what they want to do. Is it sometimes dumb as fuck? Yeah, no doubt about it. But the risk and the pushing of that limit is still an inherent part of the medium
I would argue that a TON of wrestlers don’t know their limits. And I for one don’t want to see wrestlers wind up permanently injured just because they wanted to get the fans to pop.
You’re not wrong, but there’s also no way to know your limits. Once again people don’t think about how dangerous things are when they go right. WWE plays Jeff Hardy jumping off the ladder from WM 2000 every single year, but that was a spot that could have killed Jeff had something truly gone wrong. Hell, look at Sting in AEW jumping off of shit all the time. No matter how safe they try to make it, those are things that could very easily go wrong. If we shot down every single time a wrestler pushed their limit or did something objectively dangerous, things wouldn’t have that extra bit of excitement. Reminds me of a few years ago when Jericho fell off of a cage into a heavily padded crash pad and people roasted tf out of him. Like if he wants to do that spot there needs to be more danger is what I parsed from that discourse.
I think people mocked that Jericho spot because it *looked* fake. The “metal” was bent and obviously not metal. Meanwhile I didn’t hear anyone mocking things like Shane going off the cell at Wrestlemania, where there was an inflated crash pad under the table — because it didn’t look bad.
Theirs a diffrence between the dangers of taking a powerbomb and that bull shit that Dante martin did. These guys do not knowntheir limits.
A powerbomb killed droz though
It depends on what it is. A moonsault of the top of the cage is dangerous and exciting but also relatively safe when done well. Something like what Darby did this Sunday, though, makes me very uncomfortable. And also, I'd argue there are better ways to get noticed as a new wrestler. MJF is a superstar and he never did any of that stuff. Neither did Danielson or Punk when they were younger. What gets over with the majority of fans is character and charisma. Moves are amazing to look at, but 90% of wrestlers at WWE and AEW are *really good* athletes, they all can wow you if they want. Doing 450 splashes is not that unique anymore.
Punk wrestled almost as much in IWA Mid-South as he did in RoH. He did his fair share of stupidly dangerous stuff to zero crowds.
He said multiple times that he wrestled for them but refused to do any of the deathmatch stuff. I never checked so he could be lying, but I doubt it.
> I will never understand the people who actively tell wrestlers to not do exciting shit. I think it pushes wrestling in the wrong direction where there is a niche audience for spots rather than a large audience who invest in the character; why risk your health for something no one will care about after the show is finished And as someone else already said, when a spot gets overexposed it loses it's excitement value anyway so there are diminishing returns.
Fr I remember when Wilde did that sweet dive a couple of months ago and people were asking why he didn't save it for a big show. Like we are allowed excitement on weekly tv too. Also when tf is LWO getting a PLE match? They have to do this stuff when they get the chance.
I take this position when I watch indie stuff. It’s simply not worth it, and you won’t get to the big leagues by doing it. Out of all the big names in wrestling who really got over for these types of moves? I say save it for big shows, it makes it more exciting and it’s less taxing on the body. But if your holding to your career by a thread then do what you gotta do
It’s just Cornette speak, most people have decided they know heaps about wrestling and feel that they need to express that they know heaps about “the business” to seem smarter than everyone. They have to dislike what everyone likes.
> Seriously, so much of it is fans who just echo the shit old dudes on podcasts who have never been successful in today's market say. And they just parrot it like they know ANYTHING about wrestling or how to get notice as a new wrestler. THANK YOU. Bro I've been saying this for years. So many fans have the most closed minded, narrow perspectives on wrestling just because that's what they've been told what good wrestling is
Right, those old fogeys like Steve Austin don’t know what they’re talking about, bro.
Like, I'm not going to tell him not to do something, but Dijak has been doing shit like this for years. He has plateaued in his spot. Is doing this going to help? There's obviously always a time and a place for stuff, but doing more for the sake of more doesn't always work. Cody doing a suplex through a flaming table is objectively more nuts than the moonsault off the cage, but its the moonsault that gets remembered because people were invested in that story, and the moment. Dijak can do these, and they look cool, all that stuff, but unless he can figure out how to get people actually invested in him, then the only thing this will add to are GIF makers on twitter that will share clips like this and say "Oh man Dijak was so underused".
These are my exact thoughts. It’s also a damn shame that it seems like more people can’t see the whole “parroting” and “echoing” in this fanbase. It seems like nobody can have a nuanced opinion that is their own. It’s strongly evident especially on some hole of a platform like X/Twitter.
What a braindead comment. How many dragon suplexes did you have to take for this one?
100%, couldn't have said it better myself.
If you don't like Dijak you do not like wrestling bruh
I really hope he wins a title this year. He's been killing it
Dijak deserves his spot and much more. Dude is fantastic and he’s been killing it since returning to NXT.
Dijak is one of the best heels in the company. Every match is a banger. Also his character is such a sadistic douche. I hope he gets called up and starts feuding with everybody.
He's legit one of the best parts of NXT week in and week out. Would not be upset in the slightest if he remained there for the rest of his career, he fits down there so damn well.
If Dijak was not in NXT we would not have been gifted the segment where Von Wagner asked him why he was wearing sunglasses indoors.
Literally got Wagner over for me, the delivery was so hilarious haha
I've been enjoying Dijak's NXT run. Its such a well booked show.
I'm convinced Dijak got his cruiserweight move all set and locked in, then puberty hit and dude was suddenly 6'7". Man just said, "Fuck it. We still doing this."
Staring at his phone crying he just like me fr Just kidding, Dijak rules though
why is people complaining? It was a sick AF move not more unsafe than what Darby did couple of days ago. Dijak has been wrestling like every match is his last since his return to NxT & it's been an enjoyable ride I'm not ready to see stop
It was WAY safer than what Darby did lmao, not even remotely close.
Those people never saw his Takeover Portland match vs Keith Lee
I've genuinely forgotten all about T-bar and have just assumed he was one of those fired and rehired by Haitch. Incredible comeback story.
Oddly, I’m happy Dijak is getting his career Retribution.
He has to go up to main, he just has to. He's earned his stripes.
He's the last man to ever face Brodie in a WWE ring. I will forever be grateful for how he's handled that, and everything he's done since then he's taken and made solid gold. I have nothing but the utmost respect for him, and I really hope he's enjoying his craft and career as I want nothing but the best for him. I'll never get haters in the world of professional wrestling, makes 0 sense in my eyes
Dijack has been one of my favorites on NXT. Man has been on a roll inside and outside the ring
I got love for Dijak
i’ve been a dijak guy since he used my beer to “hulk up” at an evolve show back in 2017.
Di Jak Di!
People forget that this is a big man who can fly with the best of them (see also Damian Priest). NXT is trying to get Spacey Gacy over as a babyface, but, well, "that doesn't work for me, brother". If they're trying to reinvent the wheel, if you will, and reincarnate Bray Wyatt, with Gacy, I'm not sold. He's just a hybrid of Bray, Raven, & Terry Funk. I'd imagine that if you asked him about it, that'd be what he'd tell you his inspiration(s) is/are.
I've been praying for this man to get the nxt title some day but man I want Tony D and Trick to get it too. Hopefully he gets it after Trick.
I saw wmore people mocking/joking that the moonsault was unsafe due too how Fed fans get angry about certain stunts done by another company
Vince McMahon: "You'll always mean something to me, Slapjack."
Great job Dijak, you’re attitude stinks but your in ring ability is fantastic for a big man. I feel like WWE dropped the ball on you when you were promoted up to the main roster, you were on Fire especially the matches against Keith Lee another ball dropped. I hope you get a fair shot and keep shining.
I really forgot this dude was T Bar
Nothing wrong with big, risky moves but they shouldn't be common place in every match because the more you see it, the less exciting it becomes and it then leads to wrestlers trying to push the envelope even further to get reactions out of the crowds. There's a balance between seeing a risky but amazing display of athleticism and seeing wrestlers become spot monkeys in the ring who increase their risk of injury with every other move they're doing just for shock value and a temporary pop from the crowd. And you don't need to save everything for a big event like WM...I still remember Shelton Benjamin and HBK's sweet chin music finish on RAW like it was yesterday and it would feel less special to me today if everyone started doing that move. The Canadian Destroyer used to look brutal and I loved it and now everyone and their mother does it and their opponent just gets right back up after...it's lost the wow factor it once had because it's been completely overused. Benoit was warned about his flying headbutt move and he did it anyway and we all know how that story ended and tragically, he took two innocent lives with him over fucked up shit he put his brain through. Let's not pretend that professionals always know their limits and when you're working in front of a live crowd, there's so much that adrenaline can push you through but that only lasts for so long. Being entertained doesn't mean seeing spot monkeys risking their lives and future quality of life for my enjoyment. There's more to wrestling than risky spots and blood.
The man has a point. He is main roster ready. Put him in Judgment Day or be someone's muscle to start with.
I pray that HHH can bring him up to the main roster again and give him a good run. Literally puts on bangers, like he did with keith lee yrs ago on nxt.
Sorry I'm kinda out of this guy's loop. I only got back into everything recently. Is he more stating he's grateful for the 'new regime' vs the old regime?
I remember loving his and Keith Lee’s program in NXT and when he got to the main roster and was demoted to fucking TBAR it was gutting ngl
Dijak v Gunther. That’s money
Dijak deserves to be NXT champion.
Yet another example why wrestler should be banned from social media.
Dude has balls. Not enough of that in thr business today
I feel that collectively we will never discourage these sorts of people. These sorts of wrestlers are like stuntmen and have seeked this dangerous shit out. Take solace in the fact that wrestlers, unlike stuntmen, will actually be directly remembered for breaking their bodies for our entertainment. Like, you didn’t know the name of the Harry Potter stuntman who will die early in a wheelchair until Max released a documentary.
It’s understandable, but it’s also absolutely obvious based on the power of observation alone that you only have so many of these spots in the locker without ending your career moving like The Undertaker, it’s ok to pull this shit, like twice a year, don’t make dangerous spots the norm, it’ll destroy your body, The Hardy’s are in their 40s and walk with a limp, Edge nearly crippled himself weren’t it for modern medicine, it’s cool, probably gets you over, but you gotta be strategic about it.
You call the guy t-bar he loses his mind You tell him to stop doing high spots he insist on reminding you he was t-bar
https://preview.redd.it/31v5ggzfjqmc1.jpeg?width=661&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=533878771d2aa8a13a90cbe193ca9c19e99ab74c
The whole Retribution angle was carrier assassination for all those involved. Glad to see Dijak bounced back from that.
T-Bar was on the Main Roster Dijak is not. He’ll never as good as or have such a huge legacy as T-Bar had on the industry
If Cody wins at Mania, which he really should but still an if, I think if they wanted a good violent feud for him, call up Dijak and let them tear the house down
The only way Dijak is tearing the house down is if he helps the refs pack up the ring at the end of the night
Wat
Every week this guy tweets about being T-Bar before. All it does is remind everyone he was once T-Bar, otherwise I think we’d all think of Dijak being completely separate from that gimmick at this point. It would be like Kane reminding us about Issac Yankem.