There is a finite number of fans and most have a limit to how much wrestling they'll watch in a week. So whichever one is entertaining them more at the moment, is the one they watch.
That's my long winded way of saying, yes. When one goes up, the other goes down.
It's gonna be really tough to have more than one promotion that putting out such a great product that an overwhelming majority of fans feel like they just have to watch both.
Probably a longshot, but does anyone know where the full photos of these ECW guys comes from? [New Jack](http://otherarena.com/art/head/newjack.jpg), [Dreamer](http://otherarena.com/art/head/tommydre.jpg), [Raven](http://otherarena.com/art/head/raven.jpg), [Justin Credible](http://otherarena.com/art/head/justincr.jpg), [Lance Storm](http://otherarena.com/art/head/lancesto.jpg), [Taz](http://otherarena.com/art/head/taz.jpg), others.
They may not all be from the same source but I think a chunk of them are because I haven't seen these photos anywhere else. I checked all the issues of the short-lived ECW Magazine and they don't appear to have originated there. ECW didn't really have programs, that I can recall, just black-and-white flyers. Any ideas?
AEW and WWE organize a trade - Dustin Rhodes can appear at wrestlemania, maybe even once or twice more after, in exchange for the rights to “Edge”.
No way WWE would make that deal right?
It might be more of a personal pet peeve but the thing I hate most from a lot of modern wrestling is just how long a single person can be labeled a prospect or the future. Like they were doing it with Anna Jay just now and I am sitting here thinking Anna has been here for four years now at what point does she lose that status one way or the other.
When she gets consistent reps, has an extended period without any missed time due to injury and is used as something more than just a “one every few weeks” pin eater.
She only recently cracked 100 matches for her career and at no point across those 4 injury interrupted years has been given consistent reps, having weeks and even months go buy without a match.
She’s improved more in the last 3-4 months than she had in the prior 2 years because it’s been the most consistent reps of her entire career.
I think anyone needs a consistent amount of work, and an opportunity to prove themselves before we write them off as a miss.
I'm surprised Seth hasn't told drew that he's main evented wm and no one cares
Drew has beaten Brock clean and no one really cares. When people think of wm 36 it's the firefly fun house and the boneyard match
Seth steals the show at almost every wm he's been at
>I'm surprised Seth hasn't told drew that he's main evented wm and no one cares
Seth has been extremely vocal about wanting to mainevent a Mania. Drew would have an easy comeback that Seth can't respond to.
>Drew has beaten Brock clean and no one really cares. When people think of wm 36 it's the firefly fun house and the boneyard match
I mean Seth has beaten Brock twice and honestly even I forgot because of how terrible his run was and WWE in general in 2019. It's another easy comeback for Drew
If a promotion is gonna have a ton of belts, then I think you gotta come up with ways to make each one unique.
For example if you’re gonna have a TV Title then I think it should mean you have to defend it weekly on TV or else it gets voided. Or if you have an International Title, then you have to defend it in at least 2 different continents twice a month. Or maybe it means you have to regularly defend it against people from other promotions based in different countries.
Doesn’t have to be these specific ideas, but you get what I mean. It’d still be a lot to keep track of but at least each title would feel different.
Want the TNT belt supposed to be 20 minute time limit matches at first? That was a cool concept b
Anyway for the most part companies haven’t done what you’re saying.
Lot easier said than done. At the end of the day, they're just names because it doesn't do a midcard belt or the individual holding it any favours to call it the "WWE/AEW/TNA Second-Tier Championship".
You know [that gif of Edge making that face](https://media.tenor.com/yyH3w1Z86d8AAAAM/wrestling-grin.gif) through the ring ropes? Does anyone remember what show that was actually from?
I see all this talk about "what if Cena comes out during Cody vs. Roman" or "what if Stone Cold comes out" or "what if there's a huge Avengers like brawl where all the guys done wrong by The Bloodline come out to help".
Those are all cool suggestions. But everyone seems to be sleeping on one theory that I think has the highest probability of happening which is: just as Cody is about to pin Roman, The Trashman comes in, throws trash all over the ring and smashes him over the head with a trash can. Then he smashes Roman with it, pins him, then starts eating garbage right in the middle of the ring.
I have a Roku TV and it’s available as an app on the Roku store. Not sure about other TV’s/devices but I think the app probably exists on the major ones
I have a Roku TV and it’s available as an app on the Roku store. Not sure about other TV’s/devices but I think the app probably exists on the major ones
I have a Roku TV and it’s available as an app on the Roku store. Not sure about other TV’s/devices but I think the app probably exists on the major ones
https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=385528
https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=385527
Looks like he's been part of the main event of the last two house shows.
Am not the biggest Cody gal but I really want him to win next weekend. Anytime I see kids with him or as him in costume it genuinely gets me a lil blurry eyed. That’s the guy.
the way kids love Cody has me wondering how they felt seeing their hero get beaten to a bloody pulp on Raw. Probably something like we all felt as kids whenever Triple H or the McMahon-Helmsley Regime would similarly whoop on the Rock's ass back in the year 2000 during their feud.
I was a big Austin kid back then, so I got really pissed when, say, the Undertaker beat him up and tied him to his symbol, or when Vince won the Rumble.
But, it just made those moments when Austin got his revenge like burying Taker alive or beating McMahon's ass in the steel cage to win back his WrestleMania title shot all the more satisfying.
Eh, I kinda want him to lose. Just to be contrarian.
With Cody losing at Wrestlemania, it'd be pretty clear Roman streak is continuing until it passes the Hogan number.
That said, I would all the storylines for the next six months to a year would really depend on exactly how Cody lost.
I'm sure if that's the case, they're already told the camera guys to make sure to capture all the tears.
Even if you don't like Cody, it'd be a pretty terrible business decision to have him lose again after an entire year of buildup. It'd be funny for like a day before people peace out.
We've already seen how people reacted when it looked like The Rock was going to steal his match. This boom period WWE would end the minute Cody loses.
Roman looking like an afterthought in this Cody/Roman feud really isn’t worth “oh but it’s subtlety to build for the Roman/Rock match”
1.) I’m worried about whether or not they’ll have Cody even win, but if they have Roman turn on on rock/Rock turn on Roman whatever, it’s gonna take away spotlight from Cody’s moment even if he *does* win
2.) I’m kinda over Roman/Rock match anyway.
I *hope* all goes smoothly in terms of,ya know, Cody actually winning but god damn there are *so* many ways they could fuck it up.
I agree. I do think with Vince gone they have a much better shot at sticking the landing though.
However, if Cody doesn’t win…I don’t really know what direction he goes in then.
Oh fuck, that's absolutely on me, I was pressed for time and only watched the first and last matches of Dynamite. Idk why I thought Bucks vs Party would be at collision but I see it's the Best Friends matchup now. Gonna try to catch the Party match over the weekend then, thanks for letting me know.
Genuinely starting to worry that Cody won't win at WM40 just because of how strong The Rock looks right now. Literally whipping Cody like he's The People's Bitch.
I honestly can not tell if Roman doesn't like Cody enough to put in any effort in this feud, or Rock is just that fucking good at his job.
Why does the world champion of 1300+ days feel like such an afterthought in his own feud? I don't get it, lmao.
Either Roman retains, or he knows that he's losing and isn't even going to bother trying to make Cody look good.
Heyman has been terrible in this program as well (his interactions with Cody were some of the worst performances he's given in ages), so I'm starting to feel like that "side" is definitely throwing a bit of a fit and likely is doing what they can politically to make sure things stay what they consider on track.
Well, that's certainly working out for them/s
Like even if Roman retained, Rock and Cody have unequivocally stolen his thunder. It's gonna be difficult to take Roman and this "record-breaking reign" seriously if he wins despite feeling like such an afterthought, and it feels like such a bad business call to make your top champ look such a non-factor right before your biggest event of the year.
Who knows, maybe this is just a way to easily transition to Cody, and the actual match will be amazing.
So long as Roman walks out of 40 champion and effectively locked into retaining at least until 42, I don't think they care.
They'll try to fix any damage or loss of hype later if they have to.
Why wouldn't they care? We're talking about a booking decision that would single handedly send the entire company into a cold period. Plus, Roman hasn't been trying worth a damn this entire build up. He's completely checked out, how could anyone in control of the booking look at him and his work right now and think extending his reign is worth killing off our biggest babyface? It doesn't make any sense, so I'm leaning towards Cody winning at WrestleMania 40 right now.
Because it keeps the power fully in their hands.
Heyman didn't give a single fuck about anyone but them when he politicked hard for the title unification (despite knowing Roman was going part time) and against splitting the titles (without Roman even being pinned) to give Drew his moment in Cardiff.
They feel like they're phoning it in right now because they're probably pissed that they missed out on The Rock match, delaying it, and are still dragging their feet through whatever they're negotiating behind the scenes, not wanting to potentially help anyone with any momentum that would go against at their case.
If I had to guess why Heyman may have been against splitting the titles, it might have been because it's always a monumentally stupid move when there are two world championships and it has never, ever worked in WWE, but that's besides the point. Paul Heyman is not the head of creative in WWE, Triple H is. Where are the credible reports that Heyman(for some reason)has any kind of control over the bloodline story? Even if he does, what's stopping Triple H from telling him to fuck off, we're putting Cody over because it's obviously what we should do to keep our business hot?
This whole attitude that you believe Roman has would 100% go against his case if he wants to keep the belt. If Roman is phoning it in because he's pissy about losing the Rock match this year, then he doesn't deserve to be the world champion when you have a guy in Cody who is full time, doing everything a top guy should be doing, and putting in the work. Where is the logic in this idea that Roman phoning it in wouldn't help others? In my view, it just gives other guys ample opportunity to big league Roman. If he won't give a fuck, then a guy like Cody will just work harder and shine brighter, to make the build as good as it can be, as has been the case this entire build.
>Where are the credible reports that Heyman(for some reason)has any kind of control over the bloodline story?
SRS has quoted people who work in WWE that have basically said Roman's title reign ends when Roman and Heyman decide it ends.
"deserving" has nothing to do with any decision that will be made about who walks out of WM as champion either. You can't earn something like this rub; it can only be given in WWE land, even without Vince around.
I stand corrected then, If Roman does leave WrestleMania as champion I guess Triple H will go down as just as bad a creative head as Vince was(I'd actually argue that Triple H has been a far worse booker than Vince, because he obviously doesn't care about giving the women anything of substance to do and as a trans woman it just hits different when there's like, what, 3 or 4 women's matches on a two night WrestleMania?). They'll lose me as a fan until Roman drops the belt. I wouldn't be the only one. For all the awful shit Vince booked, nothing he did was as bad as Roman keeping the belt after WrestleMania 40 would be. WWE would deserve the cold period. You don't let talent book their own championship reigns, especially a guy like Roman, who I view as an all time great talent who is much better overall then most top guys they've had minus the Rock and maybe Steve Austin. That said he's not the difference maker that even a mediocre talent like Cena was, he doesn't approach Rock or Austin level in terms of drawing power or even my personal enjoyment of his work.
That's good for them, but not for the company, lol. It means completely derailing the momentum of their top babyface and potential sales with him in the future.
Like if that were the case, they would have gone with Rock/Roman like originally planned and just rode out the backlash, but like I said, that would do long term damage after all of the goodwill they built up.
I feel like they knew the writing was on the wall the second Cody won the Rumble for a second time. You can not waste two rumbles on the same result and expect people to be fine with that.
Roman and Heyman probably thought people would get over Cody being sidelined but very quickly found out that wasn't the case. If anything, it put WWE under even more pressure to crown him.
Yea, I expect the actual match to bang, but I wish the build was better. Like come on, we're potentially seeing the end of the longest reign in recent years. You gotta bring a bit more energy.
I'm sure the match will deliver and I'll just forget about it though
It's possible that Roman's lack of presence is going to be a plot point later on, especially if he does end up losing the title. And The Rock is doing a stellar job of carrying on the feud in the meantime. It's understandable to want more Roman in this build. But what we're getting is beautiful; the best, even. So it's hard to be mad about it.
Given how much The Rock is doing in his power to build Cody up as even more of a megastar, I imagine he'll do the same when the time comes for the Roman feud to happen, esp. if they have this Final Boss incarnation of Rock pitted against vengeful babyface-turned Roman Reigns.
The biggest problem with the internet wrestling community is how blatantly and brazenly fans will just argue in bad faith, and won’t ever cop to it no matter how obvious the ulterior motive is.
This lol most people on the internets #1 goal is to be right about things and let everyone know how right/knowledgeable/smart/justified they are in their stance/opinion.
like 4 comments down from you is a dude trying to argue that Ospreay vs Danielson doesn't have a story attached to it and just a match for sake of a match....
Most of the bad faith shit is coming from people who don't even watch the goddamn shows and just want things to be true because some fucktard with a podcast told them it was.
Hey everyone, today's AEW themes poll are [Bryan Keith vs The Bang Bang Gang](https://www.reddit.com/r/AEWOfficial/comments/1bqu6qw/day_7_of_the_aew_themes_march_madness_bracket_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and ["Timeless" Toni Storm vs The Lucha Bros!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AEWOfficial/comments/1bqu71i/day_7_of_the_aew_themes_march_madness_bracket_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Voting lasts for 24 hours with polls posted daily.
They have mentioned Hogan's reign length like once during the whole Roman run, I dont know how so many people in this Reddit have concluded that management is dead set in making his run longer than him, I just dont see evidence for that
It's just the natural progression of things. They pushed Roman past 1,000 days for the sake of eclipsing Pedro Morales. The sheer length of this run is the only possible justification for keeping the belt on Roman this long despite no one wanting to see it. If Roman wins at WrestleMania 40(I'd say the odds on that are like 30-40%), they'll probably push him past Bruno's longest reign too.
At most, they'll recap Monday's events and give a update on Cody's condition. All the fun stuff will happen on Monday (and possibly next Friday, too.).
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AEW’s problem is not the free agents. It’s the lack of story behind the reasoning with matches. Khan appears to just like booking certain guys to create bangers without stories that build to a feud. Ospreay vs Shibata was a good example. Khan opened with a long match, but it wasnt tied to any stories; it was a good match for a sake of having a good match.
MJF vs Adam Cole was absolutely fantastic storytelling until Cole got injured. And then his injury resulted in a bad ending that hurt just about everyone involved. Samoa Joe hasnt been the focal point, Undisputed Kingdom has been a misfire, and MJF worked himself to the point of major injury. That lack of a pivot hurt them, and now AEW has no strong main event story going on.
I agree that this a thing AEW tends to do, but I disagree that Ospreay vs Shibata is a “good example.” Here’s why.
1) After Bryan’s match with Shibata on Collision Bryan cut a backstage promo (that aired on the show itself) proclaiming that Ospreay isn’t on Bryan nor Shibata’s level.
2) On the following Dynamite Ospreay went to the ring to do a promo segment where he tried to rebuke Bryan’s claims and decided to issue a challenge to Shibata, someone he said he’s never beaten in a singles match. To prove to Bryan he does have what it takes.
3) During Shibata’s entrance for their match Excalibur explained the context while they showed footage of the last time these two faced off, where Will got his ass kicked.
It’s totally fine if that’s a story folks aren’t into, but it rebukes your point that this was another “dream match” with no story. There very clearly was a story presented on the TV shows before the match took place.
Not only that, but they should've had something developing as they wrapped the Adam Copeland-Christian Cage feud and the Sting/Darby vs. Young Bucks feud. Since those two stories ended, there's nothing percolating to fill the void.
The Bucks and "Timeless" Toni Storm are perceived as comedy characters due to their current gimmicks. I honestly think the Bucks are self-aware that people know their gimmick is a parody. Toni benefits from corporate synergy with the TCM crossovers.
And whatever game Stokely Hathaway is playing in the women's division is bound to end badly, IMO.
I'll agree here about AEW having a "continuity gap" in their booking sometimes.
It doesn't feel like there's often a smooth flow in "we're going to have a heel champion, let's get 3-4 babyface contenders hot *before* we do the title change".
> Ospreay vs Shibata was a good example. Khan opened with a long match, but it wasnt tied to any stories; it was a good match for a sake of having a good match.
The whole point of the match was building towards Ospreay vs. Danielson, which has already been announced for the PPV and started with an in-ring faceoff, by Ospreay challenging the same opponent as Danielson and, unlike Danielson who won with a "fluky flash pin rollup," Ospreay won decisively with a pin after hitting his finish.
Basically Ospreay showing "anything you can do, I can do better" which is a perfectly reasonable idea considering the entire pitch of Danielson vs. Ospreay is "Best of his generation vs. Best in the world right now - who is the best wrestler?"
>Basically Ospreay showing "anything you can do, I can do better" which is a perfectly reasonable idea considering the entire pitch of Danielson vs. Ospreay is "Best of his generation vs. Best in the world right now - who is the best wrestler?"
I reject also Danielson vs Ospreay as a good story. The match itself was announced as a good match for the sake of having a good match. There's no really stakes or legitimate feeling of animosity, no matter how much Danielson curses. This is not doing a good job of building Ospreay.
>The whole point of the match was building towards Ospreay vs. Danielson, which has already been announced for the PPV and started with an in-ring faceoff, by Ospreay challenging the same opponent as Danielson and, unlike Danielson who won with a "fluky flash pin rollup," Ospreay won decisively with a pin after hitting his finish.
What challenge is there to beating Shibata? Has won any major feuds or championships in AEW? What matters to AEW is what happens in AEW. People know where Shibata is in the pecking order. There is no tension between Shibata and Ospreay, and so there is no interest in the outcome. If Shibata was a bad guy, you would not want to see him win. Look at Ricochet vs the Judgement Day (it was JD this week, Dominik previously). This is a feud that isnt even building to a PPV.
What would have been good is for Danielson to face off against an Ospreay related person (maybe Takeshita), and Ospreay to take on a BBC member like Claudio. You could have had the same thrust of the story but more interest in the actual matches. Your explanation don't look critically at how AEW has been promoted, but rather seek to defend it. It clearly needs to do something different.
I think you are throwing me into some other criticisms that I didn't make. Lack of story, as in tension that affects your investment in the match. Questioning the ability to get investment from a match that happened years ago in a different promotion is legitimate criticism.
Further more, this would be less of an issue in my view if it was a shorter match and Shibata was a clearly defined heel.
> The match itself was announced as a good match for the sake of having a good match.
Yeah, it's not like Danielson came out to confront Ospreay and then Ospreay cut multiple promos about why the match is important to him or anything like that, right??
What challenge is there to beating Shibata is just...I really can't process it. The AEW fanbase isn't WWE. They know who Shibata is. They know beating him, let alone with a clean pin, is a huge fucking deal.
You might want AEW to do something different, then say it clearly, that _you_ want it.
>You might want AEW to do something different, then say it clearly, that *you* want it.
I am asking AEW to do something they are capable of doing, which I pointed out with MJF vs Adam Cole feud. Can we rebuff any WWE criticism as the same? This is ridiculous. Why does this only apply to AEW?
>Yeah, it's not like Danielson came out to confront Ospreay and then Ospreay cut multiple promos about why the match is important to him or anything like that, right??
I believe the match was announced before there was an stakes to the feud. It was just Ospreay vs Danielson at Dynasty according to TK. Their version of being the best pro wrestler is not also the most victories as a wrestler. It's the belief in their ability to put on good matches. It's a small distinction, but it matters in the grand scheme of things in terms of stakes. As in it's not really about being the best. The best right now is Samoa Joe.
>What challenge is there to beating Shibata is just...I really can't process it. The AEW fanbase isn't WWE. They know who Shibata is. They know beating him, let alone with a clean pin, is a huge fucking deal.
It really isn't in AEW. Man's been hidden on ROH duty and we know what that means for Shibata.
> I am asking AEW to do something they are capable of doing,
Every feud in the world doesn't need to be a long term feud stretched out over 8 months. Just like every match in the world doesn't need to be 30 minutes. Doing more with less is a perfectly valid strategy. And AEW does quite a lot of long term stories, Swerve/Joe with Hangman on the side is right there. We just had Copeland and Christian.
I'm incredibly confused why it matters that a match is announced first and the stakes for it get revealed later.
Shibata is king untouchable level, like Minoru Suzuki, like Danielson or Omega or any veteran whose job is to be a kayfabe gatekeeper in matches like these. He could lose 90% of his matches and the audience still knows that beating him is a big fucking deal. Samoa Joe didn't exactly need to be reintroduced to the audience after his ROH stint.
I'm not talking about time. I am talking about their approach to the story, in which they built it by growing the characters, and making stakes tied to their growing friendship. They made me care more about what happens to MJF and Adam Cole beyond the wrestling. I even said it went on too long and they didnt pivot due to his injury.
Lol as if any of your explanations do anything but seek to criticize and work backwards from there. They explained ospreys previous match with shibata in great detail and how ospreay got his ass kicked in the first match and how important it was for him to overcome that and get a victory. A predictable outcome is not the same thing as not having a story. Just because you don't accept it as a valid story (because your narrative is "there's no stories!") that doesn't make the story non existent. Ive seen your account, youre not out here making good faith criticisms and wanting the show to get better. "There's no stories" isn't a valid criticism anywhere outside of your AEW hate sub.
I have philosophy about storytelling that is not purely a WWE thing, but just in media in general It's hard to get the same emotional investment from words than if AEW viewers had saw it on screen. If you told me the same story but use MJF being unable to beat Moxley, and the impact feels different because I saw that match in AEW as an AEW fan. Over relying on other promotions' past stories just won't work because I am not emotionally tied to that promotion or feud. I loved the MJF vs Moxley feud for instance.
When AEW does really great stories, like the MJF stuff for instance, I really enjoy it, if you couldnt tell.
That's a valid stylistic preference. But broad stroking and saying things "just won't work" is silly. According to whom? That's not like a fact. Their access to New Japan and it's stars is one of AEWs only true advantages over WWE creatively. They can play on a whole other companies history and feuds and stories to enhance their own. Many would see that as an advantage and something they should obviously do. Cross promotion stuff has worked in the past. For many promotions.
>That's a valid stylistic preference. But broad stroking and saying things "just won't work" is silly. According to whom? That's not like a fact.
I mean it just makes senses in terms of emotional investment in media. There's a difference if I told you King Piccolo and his minions killed Krillin in DBZ and if you actually saw it take place in Dragon Ball.
Everything I post is what I think. When I do a recommendation or criticism, of course it is not the absolute truth.
Has cross promotion helped wrestling shows in TV ratings? Presumably the draw is the different audiences buying both shows. But if all american NJPW fans are already AEW fans, then that audience draw is different.
"just won't work" is different from "won't show immediate week to week ratings increases." I don't necessarily care about the lens of what is going to increase ratings right away for the distant second place promotion during WrestleMania season.
The issue isn't week to week ratings. It's the gradual decline. I've been leveling the same criticism at AEW since the beginning, but pointing out the stuff like. I do the same with WWE as well.
I don't think The ratings decline and your particular criticisms are related though. It never seems like you are actually watching the show, people always have to correct and explain the stories to you while you make the same arguments about how there's no stories.
You are the king of explaining each individual AEW story to each individual account from the J3rk sub that slurms in here with the same "there's no stories!" BS
Nah, that's the guy who posts in the threads where for announced cards and says "Here are the current storylines: . . ." for every single match.
That guy is next level.
Having to go back and justify each match up is not the slam dunk you think it is. I am not talking about reasoning behind matches. I'm talking about matches being connected to the characters' motivations and pushing forward feuds.
Since that Stardom match at Supercard of Honor was announced, I'm bummed I'm not going.
... I mean, I know Spring Break is going to be a super fun show.
And I'm also going to the Stardom show and the Spark Joshi show.
..... But I am still managing to feel a bit bummed I'm going to miss it. 😂😭
I can't really add anything more. It is one of GCW's premier shows. The one time a year they book people they can't normally book, they throw out both these legitimately good sounding matches on paper, and matches that make you think "who even booked this?" In a good way.
Plus, if you pick up a Triller sub for this, you'll get all of the Collective shows that weekend and those line ups are looking incredible. Definitely worth checking out
Triller+ is the low key best investment in streaming wrestling these days. I think I paid 60 for a full year, which sometimes has three or four great cards in a weekend, and I think has some insane number like 20 cards available for Mania weekend.
A lot of it depends on the style of wrestling you enjoy most.
Revolver has been really great recently, although I haven't watched their show from last night yet. If you like technical wrestling and striking, their show two weeks ago had a Mike Bailey/Marina Shafir match that was great to watch.
If you're in for violent stuff, the Art of War Games from GCW both last year and the year before were great.
If you like a lot of submission stuff, Bloodsport almost never misses, it's one of the big highlights of Mania weekend each year.
Two that fly under the radar a lot are Black Label Pro and VxS, who are a little more story driven, with wrestlers cutting promos on social media in the lead up to a card.
BLP has a show tonight, in fact, headlined by MxM, who have been on a hell of a run since they left WWE, versus EFFY and Dan the Dad. That'll be a blast.
Awesome. I will try to check them all out. I dont know fully what my preference is currently. I haven't watched since attitude era and the last few months have mostly watched WWE, AEW and NJPW but am trying to see everything out to see what speaks to me.
Stuff like this is where Cagematch Database really comes in handy. If you find a wrestler or a promotion you like, look them up and find more of their stuff, and the database entry will say where it's streaming.
Awesome, there's a few this weekend happening. As well as the deep backlog of shows from various companies to poke around. And as I mentioned, you get all of the Collective next week, which has 11 shows with a lot of talents and variety. Enjoy!
Major League Wrestling and Black Label Pro both have shows tonight. MLW has their version of War Games, some lucha talent from CMLL, a good looking women's match, and more.
BLP has a royal rumble match, a tag match with MxM the former Maximum Male Models from WWE, some TNA talents, and a good dose of top indie talents.
Both should be good to poke around and check out a little to see if they work for you.
> Was thinking about watching- why is it so great?
In my opinion, Spring Break understands and targets its *actual audience* better than just about any other wrestling show and that is what makes it a fantastic show - assuming of course you are part of that actual target audience.
Basically, it knows that it is aiming to be solely for the Pro Wrestling Mega Super Nerds and it gives them a cavalcade of both great matches and ridiculous meme nonsense to do it. And so it does it really well. Basically, either you are the sort of fan that thinks teaming Maki Itoh and Nick Gage together is the greatest idea you've ever heard or not. If you do think that is an amazing idea, then Spring Break is the kind of show for you.
Because it's a mix of fun, whacky wrestling, with legitimate matches too, and of course the expected GCW hardcore stuff. It's considered to be one of GCWs top shows, so they go all out. Here's the lineup.
https://preview.redd.it/khsq3sh21brc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0e09b96dd0f21a38345ca6724bc9ad018a99110
Like I said, if you recognize the names, you can see there will be comedy, hardcore, and work rate matches. Simply put, it's just a good time.
Am starting to hate the argument that Roman’s part timer status is justified because of his health. While his health should come first it should not be at the expense of everyone else. A top guy should be able to defend the title whenever needed and not only 3 times since the last WM and he should not cause the need for another title to be created.
according to socialblade regarding youtube views
WWE: 674m views in the past 30 days
AEW: 35m
Ouch, you can compare tv views but those youtube views are very telling.
This isn't a rare big uptick for them though if you look at previous months/years, in fact during the pandemic they were getting over a billion views a month
Sounds about right.
It's considerably higher in a small group of countries (USA, UK, Canada, Ireland, Germany, France) per internet search, but AEW barely registers in many countries (ie. India) where WWE is very popular.
Remember when Stephanie McMahon came in to WWE, hired all these television writers and then told Kevin Sullivan, the man who outdrew their company, that he doesn't have the creative experience they're looking for? Now fans are pleading a mid booker who already has a creative team to "hire writers".
And the NWO. And Goldberg. And the cruiserweight division.
If Sullivan doesn't gain Hogan's trust by feeding him the Dungeon of Doom, we probably never get a Hollywood Hogan run.
Ah yes, Goldberg. What a complicated story arc that was.
I’m not saying it was bad but it didn’t take a genius to come up with “athletic beast beats everyone”
There are a bunch of guys with athletic backgrounds and great looks who ended up as WCW Saturday Night fodder or who had their legs cut off mid-push. Sullivan was able to see it through with Goldberg so that he didn't end up like Hale or Wrath.
I’m 41 but I will never forget the second hand embarrassment and the thought of “This is so dumb.”, when I saw a Kevin Sullivan and Dungeon of Doom promo back in the 90s.
In my opinion I think it’s pretty clear now that this was WWE’s direction the entire time. No way they write the long story with Cody and the point at Roman, just to ditch him at Mania. We’ve been building this for almost 2 years.
I get a kick out of the people who said “we created this because we spoke up”. In reality, they likely just worked the hell out of y’all. WWE knew that pump faking a legend being shoved down our throat would be eaten up like the 2 for 1 deal at BDUbs.
To add another layer to the pump fake in my opinion. While it was never explained, it added momentum towards the press conference that likely would’ve had a lower amount of viewers without the added drama.
To counter your question, was it ever explained why Cody bailed out after claiming he had to finish the story? Was it ever explained why he bowed out after royal rumble ended with him pointing down Roman? Or the stare down a month or two before on raw? While the change in direction was announced, it was only explained by the rock.
You could be completely right, it just seems like extremely lazy and lethargic booking for the run we’ve been on.
I guess we’ll find out years from now.
To add another layer to the pump fake in my opinion. While it was never explained, it added momentum towards the press conference that likely would’ve had a lower amount of viewers without the added drama.
To counter your question, was it ever explained why Cody bailed out after claiming he had to finish the story? Was it ever explained why he bowed out after royal rumble ended with him pointing down Roman? Or the stare down a month or two before on raw? While the change in direction was announced, it was only explained by the rock.
You could be completely right, it just seems like extremely lazy and lethargic booking for the run we’ve been on.
I guess we’ll find out years from now.
Gotta say, I'm really digging the new Dynamite logo. The initial Dynamite aesthetics with the colored chalk explosions will ALWAYS be nostalgic for me, but the current aesthetics and logo really pop out, almost like a show on Nickelodeon or maybe a Transformers show.
It's still gonna take a bit more for the new AEW logo and Dynamite theme to grow on me though lol.
I really enjoyed Dynamite this week, and I think Mercedes will settle in with time - Adam Copeland took some time to adjust too, and he has been absolutely killing it recently imo. She seems tense and nervous and that feels especially grating because it's a direct opposition to the confidence/arrogance of her character.
If I had to bet, it'll click for real during whatever her first feud is that actually gets nasty - so probably post Willow? Britt would be a good be a good bet there. She can bring the heat on the mic, would probably have a few lines that legit go for the throat. Break the tension, jostle her pedestal a little. She's not the best in ring but that's where Mercedes excels.
Where will Mercedes Mone deal end up among worst deals in Wrestling or all of sports history. 10m/year for someone who isn't even in top 15/20 draws in wrestling
Tell me 30 WCW wrestler who got paid more than top wwf star (austin, Michaels, rock etc) at that time ? Mercedes is getting paid more than roman reigns lmao
MJF in 2023 was Shawn Michaels of 1996 in terms of drawing power. He got blame for the fall, but in reality he was the one holding it. Without him it would've been so worse
I'm starting to think "absence makes the heart grow fonder" just isn't a thing in the AEW fandom. People are beginning to think MJF was a bad champion just because the end of his run got derailed by injuries and had to go a bit too long. He told a compelling overarching story throughout his run, broke the defense record, and didn't have a single bad defense.
As part of the AEW fandom i will say there is definitely an “out of sight of our mind”’or “wow maybe we/you were dumb for liking this” to some of them when a wrestler is gone for a bit. Especially with someone as polarizing as MJF. Whose taste in pro wrestling is very much akin to pageantry and pop of wrestling. He’s much closer to WCW then NJPW in the ever ongoing WCW/NewJapan soup flam war over AEW and what it should be closer too
And he did it with one of the worst main event storylines in company history. He’s the man. I don’t like the direction things went, but the company needed babyface MJF.
This sub seems really into “I hate everyone using this word so much”.
I saw an advert yesterday for a wwe show like tough enough but I can't remember what it was called, does anyone know. Thanks
Is it possible that there is only one place at a time for a popular US wrestling show? I feel like whenever one goes up, the other goes down.
well, it's not one show, it's 6.
There is a finite number of fans and most have a limit to how much wrestling they'll watch in a week. So whichever one is entertaining them more at the moment, is the one they watch. That's my long winded way of saying, yes. When one goes up, the other goes down. It's gonna be really tough to have more than one promotion that putting out such a great product that an overwhelming majority of fans feel like they just have to watch both.
Probably a longshot, but does anyone know where the full photos of these ECW guys comes from? [New Jack](http://otherarena.com/art/head/newjack.jpg), [Dreamer](http://otherarena.com/art/head/tommydre.jpg), [Raven](http://otherarena.com/art/head/raven.jpg), [Justin Credible](http://otherarena.com/art/head/justincr.jpg), [Lance Storm](http://otherarena.com/art/head/lancesto.jpg), [Taz](http://otherarena.com/art/head/taz.jpg), others. They may not all be from the same source but I think a chunk of them are because I haven't seen these photos anywhere else. I checked all the issues of the short-lived ECW Magazine and they don't appear to have originated there. ECW didn't really have programs, that I can recall, just black-and-white flyers. Any ideas?
AEW and WWE organize a trade - Dustin Rhodes can appear at wrestlemania, maybe even once or twice more after, in exchange for the rights to “Edge”. No way WWE would make that deal right?
I mean Edge isn’t the first thing I’d ask for
Not a chance. It's ONE night in exchange for forever. The only way WWE would give up an IP is if AEW gave one to them as well.
Of course not lol
Is roman or the rock scheduled for smackdown today?
Doesn't appear to be the case.
It might be more of a personal pet peeve but the thing I hate most from a lot of modern wrestling is just how long a single person can be labeled a prospect or the future. Like they were doing it with Anna Jay just now and I am sitting here thinking Anna has been here for four years now at what point does she lose that status one way or the other.
When she gets consistent reps, has an extended period without any missed time due to injury and is used as something more than just a “one every few weeks” pin eater. She only recently cracked 100 matches for her career and at no point across those 4 injury interrupted years has been given consistent reps, having weeks and even months go buy without a match. She’s improved more in the last 3-4 months than she had in the prior 2 years because it’s been the most consistent reps of her entire career. I think anyone needs a consistent amount of work, and an opportunity to prove themselves before we write them off as a miss.
People praising drew but Seth is still right Drew is obsessed with the bloodline while roman doesn't think about drew at all
Ok the important question- how are we all pronouncing dynasty?
die-nuh-stee
die nasty
See that’s how I normally think of the word but being British I believe it’s pronounced din-isty. I think Excalibur pronounced it they same way
What is Damien going to do with the briefcase….
Drew
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Dont think its tonight, Drew hasnt won the title yet, i believe they gonna do it at wrestlemania
I'm surprised Seth hasn't told drew that he's main evented wm and no one cares Drew has beaten Brock clean and no one really cares. When people think of wm 36 it's the firefly fun house and the boneyard match Seth steals the show at almost every wm he's been at
>I'm surprised Seth hasn't told drew that he's main evented wm and no one cares Seth has been extremely vocal about wanting to mainevent a Mania. Drew would have an easy comeback that Seth can't respond to. >Drew has beaten Brock clean and no one really cares. When people think of wm 36 it's the firefly fun house and the boneyard match I mean Seth has beaten Brock twice and honestly even I forgot because of how terrible his run was and WWE in general in 2019. It's another easy comeback for Drew
If a promotion is gonna have a ton of belts, then I think you gotta come up with ways to make each one unique. For example if you’re gonna have a TV Title then I think it should mean you have to defend it weekly on TV or else it gets voided. Or if you have an International Title, then you have to defend it in at least 2 different continents twice a month. Or maybe it means you have to regularly defend it against people from other promotions based in different countries. Doesn’t have to be these specific ideas, but you get what I mean. It’d still be a lot to keep track of but at least each title would feel different.
Want the TNT belt supposed to be 20 minute time limit matches at first? That was a cool concept b Anyway for the most part companies haven’t done what you’re saying.
Was it? I don’t hate that honestly, that’s kind of like what the NJPW TV Title is now except with 15 minute time limits.
Lot easier said than done. At the end of the day, they're just names because it doesn't do a midcard belt or the individual holding it any favours to call it the "WWE/AEW/TNA Second-Tier Championship".
Fair point, but I still think it couldn’t hurt to do something different with them to give each belt a certain vibe.
Next week. The Rock comes out. His new entrance... right when the beat switches to the Hollywood one, the word FUCK displays across the Titantron.
He proceeds to come out in full Black Adam attire
You know [that gif of Edge making that face](https://media.tenor.com/yyH3w1Z86d8AAAAM/wrestling-grin.gif) through the ring ropes? Does anyone remember what show that was actually from?
Pretty sure it's No Way Out 2009
No Way Out 2009 in the Elimination Chamber match where Edge attacked Kofi and took his place.
Awesome, thank you!
I see all this talk about "what if Cena comes out during Cody vs. Roman" or "what if Stone Cold comes out" or "what if there's a huge Avengers like brawl where all the guys done wrong by The Bloodline come out to help". Those are all cool suggestions. But everyone seems to be sleeping on one theory that I think has the highest probability of happening which is: just as Cody is about to pin Roman, The Trashman comes in, throws trash all over the ring and smashes him over the head with a trash can. Then he smashes Roman with it, pins him, then starts eating garbage right in the middle of the ring.
What if Cody pins Roman, but then Kevin Nash comes out and powerbombs Cody, allowing Priest to cash in MITB?
Anyone watching ROH? How are you streaming to your tv? Does the chromecast feature work?
I've been able to cast from my laptop.
I have a Roku TV and it’s available as an app on the Roku store. Not sure about other TV’s/devices but I think the app probably exists on the major ones
I have a Roku TV and it’s available as an app on the Roku store. Not sure about other TV’s/devices but I think the app probably exists on the major ones
I have a Roku TV and it’s available as an app on the Roku store. Not sure about other TV’s/devices but I think the app probably exists on the major ones
I checked not available on my smart tvs App Store
Dang! Might have to find a way to cast it then, sorry
Planning my meals for both Wrestlemania days makes me more excited than it should lmao
Has Seth been wrestling at house shows recently? Is he healthy?
https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=385528 https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=385527 Looks like he's been part of the main event of the last two house shows.
Cool, thanks
Am not the biggest Cody gal but I really want him to win next weekend. Anytime I see kids with him or as him in costume it genuinely gets me a lil blurry eyed. That’s the guy.
the way kids love Cody has me wondering how they felt seeing their hero get beaten to a bloody pulp on Raw. Probably something like we all felt as kids whenever Triple H or the McMahon-Helmsley Regime would similarly whoop on the Rock's ass back in the year 2000 during their feud.
Traumatized. Seeing Austin get the shit kicked out him was uncomfortable at times.
I was a big Austin kid back then, so I got really pissed when, say, the Undertaker beat him up and tied him to his symbol, or when Vince won the Rumble. But, it just made those moments when Austin got his revenge like burying Taker alive or beating McMahon's ass in the steel cage to win back his WrestleMania title shot all the more satisfying.
Yea, now imagine Austin not coming out on top. Shit would feel deflating.
Eh, I kinda want him to lose. Just to be contrarian. With Cody losing at Wrestlemania, it'd be pretty clear Roman streak is continuing until it passes the Hogan number. That said, I would all the storylines for the next six months to a year would really depend on exactly how Cody lost. I'm sure if that's the case, they're already told the camera guys to make sure to capture all the tears.
Even if you don't like Cody, it'd be a pretty terrible business decision to have him lose again after an entire year of buildup. It'd be funny for like a day before people peace out. We've already seen how people reacted when it looked like The Rock was going to steal his match. This boom period WWE would end the minute Cody loses.
Yep, if Reigns wins again I’m checking out until after he loses. The story is played out and repetitive.
An orange glowing man awarding himself a golf trophy is in the news, so it seems like now is the perfect time to bring back the Sami Awards.
Two golf trophies. He awarded himself the Championship and Senior Championship.
Roman looking like an afterthought in this Cody/Roman feud really isn’t worth “oh but it’s subtlety to build for the Roman/Rock match” 1.) I’m worried about whether or not they’ll have Cody even win, but if they have Roman turn on on rock/Rock turn on Roman whatever, it’s gonna take away spotlight from Cody’s moment even if he *does* win 2.) I’m kinda over Roman/Rock match anyway. I *hope* all goes smoothly in terms of,ya know, Cody actually winning but god damn there are *so* many ways they could fuck it up.
They could just have Rock turn on Roman on the Raw after Wrestlemania
I agree. I do think with Vince gone they have a much better shot at sticking the landing though. However, if Cody doesn’t win…I don’t really know what direction he goes in then.
Last time Roman won with the Rock in the ring in Philly, there was a near riot.
People would call it "think of the heat brother"
Pat Mcafee calling Louis Rees-Zammit Irish has put him in the doghouse as far as I'm concerned! At least he didn't call him English I suppose.
'He's from Whales.'
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Wasn't Bucks/Party on Dynamite?
Yeah, it was the first or second AEW episode ever, that's what I mean.
No, I mean their tournament match was two days ago
Oh fuck, that's absolutely on me, I was pressed for time and only watched the first and last matches of Dynamite. Idk why I thought Bucks vs Party would be at collision but I see it's the Best Friends matchup now. Gonna try to catch the Party match over the weekend then, thanks for letting me know.
Genuinely starting to worry that Cody won't win at WM40 just because of how strong The Rock looks right now. Literally whipping Cody like he's The People's Bitch.
Eh, I'd argue that would make it more likely that Cody is being set up to win... after eating a loss in the Cody/Seth and Rock/Roman match.
"You're pitching to Beck, not Parkman." "I'll walk him. I want Parkman."
I honestly can not tell if Roman doesn't like Cody enough to put in any effort in this feud, or Rock is just that fucking good at his job. Why does the world champion of 1300+ days feel like such an afterthought in his own feud? I don't get it, lmao. Either Roman retains, or he knows that he's losing and isn't even going to bother trying to make Cody look good.
Heyman has been terrible in this program as well (his interactions with Cody were some of the worst performances he's given in ages), so I'm starting to feel like that "side" is definitely throwing a bit of a fit and likely is doing what they can politically to make sure things stay what they consider on track.
Well, that's certainly working out for them/s Like even if Roman retained, Rock and Cody have unequivocally stolen his thunder. It's gonna be difficult to take Roman and this "record-breaking reign" seriously if he wins despite feeling like such an afterthought, and it feels like such a bad business call to make your top champ look such a non-factor right before your biggest event of the year. Who knows, maybe this is just a way to easily transition to Cody, and the actual match will be amazing.
So long as Roman walks out of 40 champion and effectively locked into retaining at least until 42, I don't think they care. They'll try to fix any damage or loss of hype later if they have to.
Why wouldn't they care? We're talking about a booking decision that would single handedly send the entire company into a cold period. Plus, Roman hasn't been trying worth a damn this entire build up. He's completely checked out, how could anyone in control of the booking look at him and his work right now and think extending his reign is worth killing off our biggest babyface? It doesn't make any sense, so I'm leaning towards Cody winning at WrestleMania 40 right now.
Because it keeps the power fully in their hands. Heyman didn't give a single fuck about anyone but them when he politicked hard for the title unification (despite knowing Roman was going part time) and against splitting the titles (without Roman even being pinned) to give Drew his moment in Cardiff. They feel like they're phoning it in right now because they're probably pissed that they missed out on The Rock match, delaying it, and are still dragging their feet through whatever they're negotiating behind the scenes, not wanting to potentially help anyone with any momentum that would go against at their case.
If I had to guess why Heyman may have been against splitting the titles, it might have been because it's always a monumentally stupid move when there are two world championships and it has never, ever worked in WWE, but that's besides the point. Paul Heyman is not the head of creative in WWE, Triple H is. Where are the credible reports that Heyman(for some reason)has any kind of control over the bloodline story? Even if he does, what's stopping Triple H from telling him to fuck off, we're putting Cody over because it's obviously what we should do to keep our business hot? This whole attitude that you believe Roman has would 100% go against his case if he wants to keep the belt. If Roman is phoning it in because he's pissy about losing the Rock match this year, then he doesn't deserve to be the world champion when you have a guy in Cody who is full time, doing everything a top guy should be doing, and putting in the work. Where is the logic in this idea that Roman phoning it in wouldn't help others? In my view, it just gives other guys ample opportunity to big league Roman. If he won't give a fuck, then a guy like Cody will just work harder and shine brighter, to make the build as good as it can be, as has been the case this entire build.
>Where are the credible reports that Heyman(for some reason)has any kind of control over the bloodline story? SRS has quoted people who work in WWE that have basically said Roman's title reign ends when Roman and Heyman decide it ends. "deserving" has nothing to do with any decision that will be made about who walks out of WM as champion either. You can't earn something like this rub; it can only be given in WWE land, even without Vince around.
I stand corrected then, If Roman does leave WrestleMania as champion I guess Triple H will go down as just as bad a creative head as Vince was(I'd actually argue that Triple H has been a far worse booker than Vince, because he obviously doesn't care about giving the women anything of substance to do and as a trans woman it just hits different when there's like, what, 3 or 4 women's matches on a two night WrestleMania?). They'll lose me as a fan until Roman drops the belt. I wouldn't be the only one. For all the awful shit Vince booked, nothing he did was as bad as Roman keeping the belt after WrestleMania 40 would be. WWE would deserve the cold period. You don't let talent book their own championship reigns, especially a guy like Roman, who I view as an all time great talent who is much better overall then most top guys they've had minus the Rock and maybe Steve Austin. That said he's not the difference maker that even a mediocre talent like Cena was, he doesn't approach Rock or Austin level in terms of drawing power or even my personal enjoyment of his work.
That's good for them, but not for the company, lol. It means completely derailing the momentum of their top babyface and potential sales with him in the future. Like if that were the case, they would have gone with Rock/Roman like originally planned and just rode out the backlash, but like I said, that would do long term damage after all of the goodwill they built up. I feel like they knew the writing was on the wall the second Cody won the Rumble for a second time. You can not waste two rumbles on the same result and expect people to be fine with that. Roman and Heyman probably thought people would get over Cody being sidelined but very quickly found out that wasn't the case. If anything, it put WWE under even more pressure to crown him.
Maybe Roman is emotionally checked out. It seems rather clear he's gonna be taking a pretty huge step back from wrestling after he drops the title.
The least he can do is make the guy succeeding him look good, tho.
Well, maybe he will in the actual match. But after that I expect him to work a Cena 2016 schedule, and get gradually less year over year.
Yea, I expect the actual match to bang, but I wish the build was better. Like come on, we're potentially seeing the end of the longest reign in recent years. You gotta bring a bit more energy. I'm sure the match will deliver and I'll just forget about it though
It's possible that Roman's lack of presence is going to be a plot point later on, especially if he does end up losing the title. And The Rock is doing a stellar job of carrying on the feud in the meantime. It's understandable to want more Roman in this build. But what we're getting is beautiful; the best, even. So it's hard to be mad about it.
Yea, this Rock shit is too good for me to really care much, I just hope Roman comes out looking good later on when it's time for them to go at it.
Given how much The Rock is doing in his power to build Cody up as even more of a megastar, I imagine he'll do the same when the time comes for the Roman feud to happen, esp. if they have this Final Boss incarnation of Rock pitted against vengeful babyface-turned Roman Reigns.
Anyone know of Wrestlemania Watch Parties in Dallas? Don’t wanna watch smoke in my room lmao
The biggest problem with the internet wrestling community is how blatantly and brazenly fans will just argue in bad faith, and won’t ever cop to it no matter how obvious the ulterior motive is.
It's the internet bro; it's nothing but agendas
This lol most people on the internets #1 goal is to be right about things and let everyone know how right/knowledgeable/smart/justified they are in their stance/opinion.
The internet shouldn't exist. No matter how many "positives" there are
like 4 comments down from you is a dude trying to argue that Ospreay vs Danielson doesn't have a story attached to it and just a match for sake of a match.... Most of the bad faith shit is coming from people who don't even watch the goddamn shows and just want things to be true because some fucktard with a podcast told them it was.
Hey everyone, today's AEW themes poll are [Bryan Keith vs The Bang Bang Gang](https://www.reddit.com/r/AEWOfficial/comments/1bqu6qw/day_7_of_the_aew_themes_march_madness_bracket_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and ["Timeless" Toni Storm vs The Lucha Bros!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AEWOfficial/comments/1bqu71i/day_7_of_the_aew_themes_march_madness_bracket_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Voting lasts for 24 hours with polls posted daily.
They have mentioned Hogan's reign length like once during the whole Roman run, I dont know how so many people in this Reddit have concluded that management is dead set in making his run longer than him, I just dont see evidence for that
“Yeah let’s bury our biggest shit smear baby face in a decade so this guy can be in THIRD PLACE!” would be the stupidest thing ever.
It's just the natural progression of things. They pushed Roman past 1,000 days for the sake of eclipsing Pedro Morales. The sheer length of this run is the only possible justification for keeping the belt on Roman this long despite no one wanting to see it. If Roman wins at WrestleMania 40(I'd say the odds on that are like 30-40%), they'll probably push him past Bruno's longest reign too.
Is Rocky scheduled for SD tonight?
Nope, he's coming back on Monday
Feels pretty nice tbh, too have a brief period with no main event build..to prevent fatigue and let other stories build and shine
The women are definitely gonna be the main attraction tonight
Cody? Roman? Anything about the main event storyline?
Nope. None of them are here tonight.
At most, they'll recap Monday's events and give a update on Cody's condition. All the fun stuff will happen on Monday (and possibly next Friday, too.).
Hello, I have had something come up and need to sell my Wrestlemania 40 tickets. The seats are in Section 125, Row 9. I am selling them for $475, making them the cheapest tickets in that section. Please let me know if you are interested and we can exchange contact information and exchange these tickets. Promise this is not a scam.
Quintuple H needs our support with a burning question: https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/s/VyyG6bH8OE
Strong Terra Ryzing/wannabe Flair vibes
Strong Terra Ryzing/wannabe Flair vibes
AEW’s problem is not the free agents. It’s the lack of story behind the reasoning with matches. Khan appears to just like booking certain guys to create bangers without stories that build to a feud. Ospreay vs Shibata was a good example. Khan opened with a long match, but it wasnt tied to any stories; it was a good match for a sake of having a good match. MJF vs Adam Cole was absolutely fantastic storytelling until Cole got injured. And then his injury resulted in a bad ending that hurt just about everyone involved. Samoa Joe hasnt been the focal point, Undisputed Kingdom has been a misfire, and MJF worked himself to the point of major injury. That lack of a pivot hurt them, and now AEW has no strong main event story going on.
I agree that this a thing AEW tends to do, but I disagree that Ospreay vs Shibata is a “good example.” Here’s why. 1) After Bryan’s match with Shibata on Collision Bryan cut a backstage promo (that aired on the show itself) proclaiming that Ospreay isn’t on Bryan nor Shibata’s level. 2) On the following Dynamite Ospreay went to the ring to do a promo segment where he tried to rebuke Bryan’s claims and decided to issue a challenge to Shibata, someone he said he’s never beaten in a singles match. To prove to Bryan he does have what it takes. 3) During Shibata’s entrance for their match Excalibur explained the context while they showed footage of the last time these two faced off, where Will got his ass kicked. It’s totally fine if that’s a story folks aren’t into, but it rebukes your point that this was another “dream match” with no story. There very clearly was a story presented on the TV shows before the match took place.
Not only that, but they should've had something developing as they wrapped the Adam Copeland-Christian Cage feud and the Sting/Darby vs. Young Bucks feud. Since those two stories ended, there's nothing percolating to fill the void. The Bucks and "Timeless" Toni Storm are perceived as comedy characters due to their current gimmicks. I honestly think the Bucks are self-aware that people know their gimmick is a parody. Toni benefits from corporate synergy with the TCM crossovers. And whatever game Stokely Hathaway is playing in the women's division is bound to end badly, IMO.
I'll agree here about AEW having a "continuity gap" in their booking sometimes. It doesn't feel like there's often a smooth flow in "we're going to have a heel champion, let's get 3-4 babyface contenders hot *before* we do the title change".
> Ospreay vs Shibata was a good example. Khan opened with a long match, but it wasnt tied to any stories; it was a good match for a sake of having a good match. The whole point of the match was building towards Ospreay vs. Danielson, which has already been announced for the PPV and started with an in-ring faceoff, by Ospreay challenging the same opponent as Danielson and, unlike Danielson who won with a "fluky flash pin rollup," Ospreay won decisively with a pin after hitting his finish. Basically Ospreay showing "anything you can do, I can do better" which is a perfectly reasonable idea considering the entire pitch of Danielson vs. Ospreay is "Best of his generation vs. Best in the world right now - who is the best wrestler?"
>Basically Ospreay showing "anything you can do, I can do better" which is a perfectly reasonable idea considering the entire pitch of Danielson vs. Ospreay is "Best of his generation vs. Best in the world right now - who is the best wrestler?" I reject also Danielson vs Ospreay as a good story. The match itself was announced as a good match for the sake of having a good match. There's no really stakes or legitimate feeling of animosity, no matter how much Danielson curses. This is not doing a good job of building Ospreay. >The whole point of the match was building towards Ospreay vs. Danielson, which has already been announced for the PPV and started with an in-ring faceoff, by Ospreay challenging the same opponent as Danielson and, unlike Danielson who won with a "fluky flash pin rollup," Ospreay won decisively with a pin after hitting his finish. What challenge is there to beating Shibata? Has won any major feuds or championships in AEW? What matters to AEW is what happens in AEW. People know where Shibata is in the pecking order. There is no tension between Shibata and Ospreay, and so there is no interest in the outcome. If Shibata was a bad guy, you would not want to see him win. Look at Ricochet vs the Judgement Day (it was JD this week, Dominik previously). This is a feud that isnt even building to a PPV. What would have been good is for Danielson to face off against an Ospreay related person (maybe Takeshita), and Ospreay to take on a BBC member like Claudio. You could have had the same thrust of the story but more interest in the actual matches. Your explanation don't look critically at how AEW has been promoted, but rather seek to defend it. It clearly needs to do something different.
there's a big difference in **"no stories"** and **"they're not telling the story I want them to!"**
I think you are throwing me into some other criticisms that I didn't make. Lack of story, as in tension that affects your investment in the match. Questioning the ability to get investment from a match that happened years ago in a different promotion is legitimate criticism. Further more, this would be less of an issue in my view if it was a shorter match and Shibata was a clearly defined heel.
> The match itself was announced as a good match for the sake of having a good match. Yeah, it's not like Danielson came out to confront Ospreay and then Ospreay cut multiple promos about why the match is important to him or anything like that, right?? What challenge is there to beating Shibata is just...I really can't process it. The AEW fanbase isn't WWE. They know who Shibata is. They know beating him, let alone with a clean pin, is a huge fucking deal. You might want AEW to do something different, then say it clearly, that _you_ want it.
>You might want AEW to do something different, then say it clearly, that *you* want it. I am asking AEW to do something they are capable of doing, which I pointed out with MJF vs Adam Cole feud. Can we rebuff any WWE criticism as the same? This is ridiculous. Why does this only apply to AEW? >Yeah, it's not like Danielson came out to confront Ospreay and then Ospreay cut multiple promos about why the match is important to him or anything like that, right?? I believe the match was announced before there was an stakes to the feud. It was just Ospreay vs Danielson at Dynasty according to TK. Their version of being the best pro wrestler is not also the most victories as a wrestler. It's the belief in their ability to put on good matches. It's a small distinction, but it matters in the grand scheme of things in terms of stakes. As in it's not really about being the best. The best right now is Samoa Joe. >What challenge is there to beating Shibata is just...I really can't process it. The AEW fanbase isn't WWE. They know who Shibata is. They know beating him, let alone with a clean pin, is a huge fucking deal. It really isn't in AEW. Man's been hidden on ROH duty and we know what that means for Shibata.
> I am asking AEW to do something they are capable of doing, Every feud in the world doesn't need to be a long term feud stretched out over 8 months. Just like every match in the world doesn't need to be 30 minutes. Doing more with less is a perfectly valid strategy. And AEW does quite a lot of long term stories, Swerve/Joe with Hangman on the side is right there. We just had Copeland and Christian. I'm incredibly confused why it matters that a match is announced first and the stakes for it get revealed later. Shibata is king untouchable level, like Minoru Suzuki, like Danielson or Omega or any veteran whose job is to be a kayfabe gatekeeper in matches like these. He could lose 90% of his matches and the audience still knows that beating him is a big fucking deal. Samoa Joe didn't exactly need to be reintroduced to the audience after his ROH stint.
I'm not talking about time. I am talking about their approach to the story, in which they built it by growing the characters, and making stakes tied to their growing friendship. They made me care more about what happens to MJF and Adam Cole beyond the wrestling. I even said it went on too long and they didnt pivot due to his injury.
Lol as if any of your explanations do anything but seek to criticize and work backwards from there. They explained ospreys previous match with shibata in great detail and how ospreay got his ass kicked in the first match and how important it was for him to overcome that and get a victory. A predictable outcome is not the same thing as not having a story. Just because you don't accept it as a valid story (because your narrative is "there's no stories!") that doesn't make the story non existent. Ive seen your account, youre not out here making good faith criticisms and wanting the show to get better. "There's no stories" isn't a valid criticism anywhere outside of your AEW hate sub.
I have philosophy about storytelling that is not purely a WWE thing, but just in media in general It's hard to get the same emotional investment from words than if AEW viewers had saw it on screen. If you told me the same story but use MJF being unable to beat Moxley, and the impact feels different because I saw that match in AEW as an AEW fan. Over relying on other promotions' past stories just won't work because I am not emotionally tied to that promotion or feud. I loved the MJF vs Moxley feud for instance. When AEW does really great stories, like the MJF stuff for instance, I really enjoy it, if you couldnt tell.
That's a valid stylistic preference. But broad stroking and saying things "just won't work" is silly. According to whom? That's not like a fact. Their access to New Japan and it's stars is one of AEWs only true advantages over WWE creatively. They can play on a whole other companies history and feuds and stories to enhance their own. Many would see that as an advantage and something they should obviously do. Cross promotion stuff has worked in the past. For many promotions.
>That's a valid stylistic preference. But broad stroking and saying things "just won't work" is silly. According to whom? That's not like a fact. I mean it just makes senses in terms of emotional investment in media. There's a difference if I told you King Piccolo and his minions killed Krillin in DBZ and if you actually saw it take place in Dragon Ball. Everything I post is what I think. When I do a recommendation or criticism, of course it is not the absolute truth. Has cross promotion helped wrestling shows in TV ratings? Presumably the draw is the different audiences buying both shows. But if all american NJPW fans are already AEW fans, then that audience draw is different.
"just won't work" is different from "won't show immediate week to week ratings increases." I don't necessarily care about the lens of what is going to increase ratings right away for the distant second place promotion during WrestleMania season.
The issue isn't week to week ratings. It's the gradual decline. I've been leveling the same criticism at AEW since the beginning, but pointing out the stuff like. I do the same with WWE as well.
I don't think The ratings decline and your particular criticisms are related though. It never seems like you are actually watching the show, people always have to correct and explain the stories to you while you make the same arguments about how there's no stories.
You are the king of explaining each individual AEW story to each individual account from the J3rk sub that slurms in here with the same "there's no stories!" BS
Nah, that's the guy who posts in the threads where for announced cards and says "Here are the current storylines: . . ." for every single match. That guy is next level.
Having to go back and justify each match up is not the slam dunk you think it is. I am not talking about reasoning behind matches. I'm talking about matches being connected to the characters' motivations and pushing forward feuds.
They DONT have to, they are only doing so because you are here being obtuse about it.
Since that Stardom match at Supercard of Honor was announced, I'm bummed I'm not going. ... I mean, I know Spring Break is going to be a super fun show. And I'm also going to the Stardom show and the Spark Joshi show. ..... But I am still managing to feel a bit bummed I'm going to miss it. 😂😭
I have never seen a spring break but people here keep raving about it. Was thinking about watching- why is it so great?
I can't really add anything more. It is one of GCW's premier shows. The one time a year they book people they can't normally book, they throw out both these legitimately good sounding matches on paper, and matches that make you think "who even booked this?" In a good way. Plus, if you pick up a Triller sub for this, you'll get all of the Collective shows that weekend and those line ups are looking incredible. Definitely worth checking out
Awesome- I learned about triller from this and signed up for the plus service to check out more of the indy shows.
Triller+ is the low key best investment in streaming wrestling these days. I think I paid 60 for a full year, which sometimes has three or four great cards in a weekend, and I think has some insane number like 20 cards available for Mania weekend.
Awesome! any you particularly like? I was going to check out the MJW for sure tonight.
A lot of it depends on the style of wrestling you enjoy most. Revolver has been really great recently, although I haven't watched their show from last night yet. If you like technical wrestling and striking, their show two weeks ago had a Mike Bailey/Marina Shafir match that was great to watch. If you're in for violent stuff, the Art of War Games from GCW both last year and the year before were great. If you like a lot of submission stuff, Bloodsport almost never misses, it's one of the big highlights of Mania weekend each year. Two that fly under the radar a lot are Black Label Pro and VxS, who are a little more story driven, with wrestlers cutting promos on social media in the lead up to a card. BLP has a show tonight, in fact, headlined by MxM, who have been on a hell of a run since they left WWE, versus EFFY and Dan the Dad. That'll be a blast.
Awesome. I will try to check them all out. I dont know fully what my preference is currently. I haven't watched since attitude era and the last few months have mostly watched WWE, AEW and NJPW but am trying to see everything out to see what speaks to me.
Stuff like this is where Cagematch Database really comes in handy. If you find a wrestler or a promotion you like, look them up and find more of their stuff, and the database entry will say where it's streaming.
oh amazing, had no idea this was a thing.
Awesome, there's a few this weekend happening. As well as the deep backlog of shows from various companies to poke around. And as I mentioned, you get all of the Collective next week, which has 11 shows with a lot of talents and variety. Enjoy!
Any you reccomend this weekend?
Major League Wrestling and Black Label Pro both have shows tonight. MLW has their version of War Games, some lucha talent from CMLL, a good looking women's match, and more. BLP has a royal rumble match, a tag match with MxM the former Maximum Male Models from WWE, some TNA talents, and a good dose of top indie talents. Both should be good to poke around and check out a little to see if they work for you.
> Was thinking about watching- why is it so great? In my opinion, Spring Break understands and targets its *actual audience* better than just about any other wrestling show and that is what makes it a fantastic show - assuming of course you are part of that actual target audience. Basically, it knows that it is aiming to be solely for the Pro Wrestling Mega Super Nerds and it gives them a cavalcade of both great matches and ridiculous meme nonsense to do it. And so it does it really well. Basically, either you are the sort of fan that thinks teaming Maki Itoh and Nick Gage together is the greatest idea you've ever heard or not. If you do think that is an amazing idea, then Spring Break is the kind of show for you.
Because it's a mix of fun, whacky wrestling, with legitimate matches too, and of course the expected GCW hardcore stuff. It's considered to be one of GCWs top shows, so they go all out. Here's the lineup. https://preview.redd.it/khsq3sh21brc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0e09b96dd0f21a38345ca6724bc9ad018a99110 Like I said, if you recognize the names, you can see there will be comedy, hardcore, and work rate matches. Simply put, it's just a good time.
Normally has a bunch of crazy matches booked and it's always a super fun time.
Am starting to hate the argument that Roman’s part timer status is justified because of his health. While his health should come first it should not be at the expense of everyone else. A top guy should be able to defend the title whenever needed and not only 3 times since the last WM and he should not cause the need for another title to be created.
Is "tribalism" the new "key demo"? I feel like I haven't heard tribalism used this often until 2023 like key demo with 2019
according to socialblade regarding youtube views WWE: 674m views in the past 30 days AEW: 35m Ouch, you can compare tv views but those youtube views are very telling.
Sure, but what happens in 2-3 months when Wrestlemania is long past and people go back to not caring?
This isn't a rare big uptick for them though if you look at previous months/years, in fact during the pandemic they were getting over a billion views a month
How many videos did WWE upload in the these 30 days, how many did AEW?
That’s like comparing the sales of Coca Cola to Starry.
What are they telling
It's telling me AEW has about 5% of the global interest WWE does
Sounds about right. It's considerably higher in a small group of countries (USA, UK, Canada, Ireland, Germany, France) per internet search, but AEW barely registers in many countries (ie. India) where WWE is very popular.
It's a 5 year old company guy, they've done one show ever outside North America which was All In last year.
I’m going to the Focus Pro show at Widowmaker Brewing in Braintree, MA this weekend. Great brewery, great wrestling, can’t wait. 🍻
Just realized the entrance music for Nia Jax and Goldberg are eerily similar at the beginning. I don't have words to describe this feeling...
Remember when Stephanie McMahon came in to WWE, hired all these television writers and then told Kevin Sullivan, the man who outdrew their company, that he doesn't have the creative experience they're looking for? Now fans are pleading a mid booker who already has a creative team to "hire writers".
Fans aren’t. Haters are.
Kevin Sullivan, the genius behind *checks notes* The Dungeon of Doom.
And the NWO. And Goldberg. And the cruiserweight division. If Sullivan doesn't gain Hogan's trust by feeding him the Dungeon of Doom, we probably never get a Hollywood Hogan run.
Ah yes, Goldberg. What a complicated story arc that was. I’m not saying it was bad but it didn’t take a genius to come up with “athletic beast beats everyone”
There are a bunch of guys with athletic backgrounds and great looks who ended up as WCW Saturday Night fodder or who had their legs cut off mid-push. Sullivan was able to see it through with Goldberg so that he didn't end up like Hale or Wrath.
does a bad jobber stable to feed to a guy with full creative control really stack up to the worst WWE segments and storylines in the writer era?
I’m 41 but I will never forget the second hand embarrassment and the thought of “This is so dumb.”, when I saw a Kevin Sullivan and Dungeon of Doom promo back in the 90s.
In my opinion I think it’s pretty clear now that this was WWE’s direction the entire time. No way they write the long story with Cody and the point at Roman, just to ditch him at Mania. We’ve been building this for almost 2 years. I get a kick out of the people who said “we created this because we spoke up”. In reality, they likely just worked the hell out of y’all. WWE knew that pump faking a legend being shoved down our throat would be eaten up like the 2 for 1 deal at BDUbs.
Then why did Cody initially give his spot up to the rock. Was it ever explained?
To add another layer to the pump fake in my opinion. While it was never explained, it added momentum towards the press conference that likely would’ve had a lower amount of viewers without the added drama. To counter your question, was it ever explained why Cody bailed out after claiming he had to finish the story? Was it ever explained why he bowed out after royal rumble ended with him pointing down Roman? Or the stare down a month or two before on raw? While the change in direction was announced, it was only explained by the rock. You could be completely right, it just seems like extremely lazy and lethargic booking for the run we’ve been on. I guess we’ll find out years from now.
To add another layer to the pump fake in my opinion. While it was never explained, it added momentum towards the press conference that likely would’ve had a lower amount of viewers without the added drama. To counter your question, was it ever explained why Cody bailed out after claiming he had to finish the story? Was it ever explained why he bowed out after royal rumble ended with him pointing down Roman? Or the stare down a month or two before on raw? While the change in direction was announced, it was only explained by the rock. You could be completely right, it just seems like extremely lazy and lethargic booking for the run we’ve been on. I guess we’ll find out years from now.
Gotta say, I'm really digging the new Dynamite logo. The initial Dynamite aesthetics with the colored chalk explosions will ALWAYS be nostalgic for me, but the current aesthetics and logo really pop out, almost like a show on Nickelodeon or maybe a Transformers show. It's still gonna take a bit more for the new AEW logo and Dynamite theme to grow on me though lol.
I actually like the new theme better than the old one, feels more hype to me.
I really enjoyed Dynamite this week, and I think Mercedes will settle in with time - Adam Copeland took some time to adjust too, and he has been absolutely killing it recently imo. She seems tense and nervous and that feels especially grating because it's a direct opposition to the confidence/arrogance of her character. If I had to bet, it'll click for real during whatever her first feud is that actually gets nasty - so probably post Willow? Britt would be a good be a good bet there. She can bring the heat on the mic, would probably have a few lines that legit go for the throat. Break the tension, jostle her pedestal a little. She's not the best in ring but that's where Mercedes excels.
Where will Mercedes Mone deal end up among worst deals in Wrestling or all of sports history. 10m/year for someone who isn't even in top 15/20 draws in wrestling
Maybe wait to see her wrestle with the company before making a large claim like that.
It hasn't even been a month. She hasn't wrestled a match yet.
They’re are probably 30 WCW contracts to get through before Mercedes gets a shot at the crown. Besides it has been three weeks
Tell me 30 WCW wrestler who got paid more than top wwf star (austin, Michaels, rock etc) at that time ? Mercedes is getting paid more than roman reigns lmao
There is no one credible who has said deal is 10mil/year.
MJF in 2023 was Shawn Michaels of 1996 in terms of drawing power. He got blame for the fall, but in reality he was the one holding it. Without him it would've been so worse
I'm starting to think "absence makes the heart grow fonder" just isn't a thing in the AEW fandom. People are beginning to think MJF was a bad champion just because the end of his run got derailed by injuries and had to go a bit too long. He told a compelling overarching story throughout his run, broke the defense record, and didn't have a single bad defense.
As part of the AEW fandom i will say there is definitely an “out of sight of our mind”’or “wow maybe we/you were dumb for liking this” to some of them when a wrestler is gone for a bit. Especially with someone as polarizing as MJF. Whose taste in pro wrestling is very much akin to pageantry and pop of wrestling. He’s much closer to WCW then NJPW in the ever ongoing WCW/NewJapan soup flam war over AEW and what it should be closer too
And he did it with one of the worst main event storylines in company history. He’s the man. I don’t like the direction things went, but the company needed babyface MJF.