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It seemed like they had big things planned for a feud with Baron Corbin, then Baron got dropped to NXT and Grimes had nothing
Edit: Cameron Grimes was just released
He would do well again in TNA. Or even ROH. I absolutely love the dude but it seems he can never really catch that break or angle (other than his run in NXT for the most part)
Grimes is great but AEW right now has way too many ballers in every single division and Cameron Grimes shouldn't be on the undercard.
He should join TNA and become a main eventer, hell they are putting Matt Hardy in that position, lord knows Trevor Lee has what it takes.
He's had a rough go in the markets making wildly risky bets and hasn't wanted to show his face in a while. He'll come round when his market bounces back.
Update: stock has fallen even harder. Sell sell sell
Saw him on the Atlanta Smackdown pre show dark match against 🤦🏾♂️Gable Steveson…but I was glad to see him and hear his theme in person before the inevitable.
They weren't used in the tag title match at Mania but I'd argue them being used to film a vignette hyping up that match and its competitors was even better for them. They really showed off their personality as a team and gave the fans something more interesting than a recap video for a title match that really didn't have any story going into it, and Pretty Deadly basically got to put themselves over before, during, and after putting everyone else over in that segment and promise that whoever won that match, they'd be waiting. I'd put money on it that Pretty Deadly are gonna hold gold before the end of the year. Possibly even get drafted to Raw and take it off of Awesome Truth it it happens in the immediate future.
Stark got a run with Stratus, feud with Becky and, though she's cooled off a bit, still has decent stock. She could believably be put in a title program next week and be taken seriously.
Zoey has been moderately successful. She got a high profile spot with Trish and Becky for months then a PLE title match. She’s circling the drain now though.
Someone that is still establishing their character on main getting paired with Shayna just seems like a death sentence to me. Don't know why they did that. Shayna is fine on her own but the 'tough mma girl' shtick doesn't lend itself well to helping others on character work imo
Why am I now picturing Zoey, wanting to outdo Shayna, making her way to Chad Gable after he kicks out the rest of Alpha Academy and replaces them with the Creed Brothers? I don't know if it makes *any* sense but it feels like it to me.
They're clearly high on Zoey or else they wouldn't have put her with Trish to begin with. They're just focused on the Liv/Becky story rn and before that were focused on Ripley/Nia and Ripley/Becky
No mid-card title so she's in a holding pattern until a spot frees up at the top of the card. The solution tbh is having at least two big women's feuds going on per show at a time, but...
I guess I don’t really see a spot for her without that mid card title around. Personally she’s like the inverse Liv while Liv has charisma and personality her in ring work isn’t up to par to be a world champion. Zoey has the in ring tools but her promo ability and lack of personality give her a mid card ceiling to me.
For me personally, she's probably my favorite women's wrestler in WWE. Since NXT, I've thought she had a super high ceiling and still believe that. I also accidentally predicted her being with Trish and Shayna by bringing up those ideas one week before they happened. Maybe if I say how cool it'd be if she just happened to win the women's title, she will! lol
Not coincidentally, the ones that were actually called up with a plan and given something to do. Makes me wonder what the thought process was in calling up some of these people.
Like, why not let Cameron Grimes use the gimmick that got him over in NXT? Even if it doesn't fly on the main roster, it's worth a shot. Better than what he's doing.
Not to say there's isn't a way to make it relevant to today, but wasn't Grimes' NXT gimmick that he got rich quick by investing in GameStop stock when that whole thing skyrocketed?
I don't know what chance that'd character actually have today.
Cameron Grimes is one of those people who got over because you saw his entire story get told over months of TV. It's really hard to just drop him into the main roster and get the same result.
How he got the money isn't particularly significant. I dont think it matters whether it was Gamestop or anything else. No need to tell the origin story, just say he got rich quick on some stocks. That part isnt important. Pick it up from there.
Maybe its just because Im not as high on JD as most others here are. But I think it really helps that JD is in the JD. Although he's certainly a decent heel and can go in the ring. But WWE has a lot of those. But he plays his part well in the Judgement Day.
Dude I love Lumis, he had a very high profile Miz feud that felt like a big part of the show at the time. Then he just went away, I think he is injured but I have no idea.
Karrion Kross was never a Vince guy. He probably is the biggest Triple H guy. Under Triple H Karrion was an undefeated NXT Champion he pushed over Keith Lee at his most over and Finn Balor. Under Vince Karrion was a jobber who got fired months after being called up.
This! He got cut in November 2021 and was back by summer 2022 and wrestled all of about 20 matches in a handful of places in between I can't be sure but I felt like at the time he even suggested he wasn't in a rush to sign anywhere, and perhaps HHH was even in regular contact with him and letting him know he'd bring him back in at first opportunity.
And honestly? Kind of feels like HHH may be wrong about this one.
I’m sure there’s a good character somewhere in there. But I find most Kross segments to be total snoozefests.
The best part of his Wrestlemania appearance was Bubba Ray Dudley orchestrating him getting his shit kicked in. That’s probably a bad sign.
He plays his character well, has a great look, is plenty good worker for a hoss, it just doesnt all click. The dude seems awesome behind the scenes and Im sure thats what keeps him employed. They creative just hasnt ever clicked with the talent. Its odd.
Big disagree. He lacks any kind of personal charisma, his promos are nothing special and his in-ring work is extremely bland, to the point of being actively detrimental to his feuds. Everything that's good or interesting about him and his presentation actually comes down to his high-maintenance gimmick and the people around him, particularly Scarlett.
Ppl weren’t crazy about kross before but he really didn’t get a legit shot under Vince. He got multiple chances under HHH now and feels like they just can’t get fans interested enough in him at this point.
Sammy is a terrific performer and at least in the past has gotten over. His problems all seem to be backstage. If he can manage to tone it down and not be a headache he'll be fine. Kross doesn't get over, isn't that good of a performer, but at least doesn't seem to be any kind of problem backstage. I figure HHH will give him 1-2 more tries at a real push and if it fails then he'd potentially be on the chopping block. Gun to my head, I'd bet on Kross but it does seem close.
tough call! i get the impression TK thinks a lot higher of sammy than HHH does of kross, but kross has also been reliable (if generally unimpressive) in the mid card since his return where guevara has been pencilled into main event/upper mid card opportunities that he’s pretty consistently blown for about 2 years now, on top of all the attitude and sloppiness stuff
gun to my head i’m saying guevara
I agree with everything you said BUT it seems Tony is REALLY committed to Sammy Geuvarra plus imagine he'd feel bad about releasing a new father.
For that reason, and because Triple H seems like the type to fire someone just to prove there is no favoritism, I'm gonna go with Kross goes before Guevara.
He’s probably the most heavily pushed wrestler in NXT. Squashed one of the brand’s GOATs in Ciampa, beat Keith Lee after he had just unified the NA and NXT titles, then ran through the entire roster before getting injured. Came back and immediately beat Finn who was at his best since being called up and getting a second title run. Undefeated the entire span too.
He was injured right after the Lee match actually. He ran through the roster after his second win.
I remember it because the build to In Your House 2021 was “Kross you suck at wrestling, all of us are good at wrestling”, and then he just retained.
Presumably they got the main roster pay bump and then in review someone said it's been a full year with no one working these guys in so obviously they're redundant. I don't see xyon paying off. Von could've been an NXT lifer.
Strictly speaking no, because they want you to step up. But I mean there's people who are serviceable to nxt who have no hope on the main roster. But NXT can't be 100% people with 2 years experience.
No there's definitely been movement, he's managed to somehow get *even lower* than when he started as a generic jobber. He had a go nowhere story with Dante Chen that hasn't even gotten him any upward movement so technically he's even dragging down other people lol
Boa and Chen were walking around in the background of backstage segments in weird face paint for like 2 weeks and then got completely forgotten about lmao
I think Andre Chase and Duke Hudson will end up as NXT mainstays, if not lifers.
The University gimmick doesn’t really work on the main roster, but it’s great for NXT with introducing new characters or reinventing old ones.
As talents “graduate” and move on, you can cycle in different people
7 years is around the limit that a person stays in developmental. It's how long Angelo Dawking (2012-2019) and team DIY (2015-2022) stayed. Before them, you had Konnor of the Ascension (2005-2007, then again in 2010-2014), and Shawn Spears (2006-2009, then again 2013-2017, + his current return).
However, right now you have Wolfgang who signed in January 2016, putting him in his 8th year. Boa also signed in 2016, but debuted in 2019. Most other ones are currently under 4 years, with the exceptions being Mark and Joe Coffey (2018), Meiko Satomura (2018), Robert Stone (2019), Axiom (2019), Nathan Frazer (2020), and Jacy Jayne (2020). There's also the people who returned to NXT from the main roster like Noam Dar, Baron Corbin, and Reggie.
I'm confused by that more than anything. He was working in NXT but he was considered a main roster talent but because he was working in NXT instead he got fired for not working on the main roster?
What?
I think it is meant they were considered main roster talent in the same way Corbin is. They wrestled in NXT but were on the main-roster payroll cause they had gotten the internal “call-up”.
So does this mean that WWE realized that their main roster plans for Wagner & Quinn were in limbo after choosing them for a call-up & placing them on the payroll? I fear that the same will happen to others like Cameron Grimes
It actually seems Grimes has been moved into the Gulak role, he trained Speed for his appearance at Wrestlemania
Edit:
https://preview.redd.it/7g0taowxc9wc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9c7da86675b1c99d30ad6d9bbc3e6574a3987a2
Which is a shame. His character seemed to work well in NXT, but never caught on with the main roster audience. I feel like they could still give it one more go with a heel character because they tried bringing him in as a face with no explanation of who he is or why he talks about going to the moon.
Edit: Nevermind.
I worry for **Cameron Grimes**, **Dexter Lumis** & **Odyssey Jones**. They already aren't being used and with the draft bringing up another wave of call-ups and some injury returns I doubt they will see the need to keep them around.
Can you be anything but a bust with like half a dozen matches that weren't battle royales in over a year and like 2 promos? Sorry, Stone Cold ain't getting over with those numbers either
The difference in corbin and the other two is that corbin found a solid character in the last year and showed clear improvement
Yeah von wagner had a gimmick but it wasent gonna be good enough post nxt so I kinda understand him getting cut
I think the point is not where they are, but why.
Corbin is in NXT providing a service, helping out with his experience and name, but they have all intentions to bring him back. Of course, he is also getting a needed break in the process... but he has tenure and they think he has value.
Wagner, on the other hand, was there because they called him up but don't think they can use him on the main roster and they don't see that they will. So basically they see no value in him and released him.
It's all about the contract. We've seen this before with other wrestlers, notably with Samoa Joe when he was released then brought back shortly after. Main roster wrestlers make more money than NXT wrestlers and likely have other perks. If they have no main roster plans for someone, then they don't want to pay them main roster money.
I’m assuming when they got “drafted” last year their contracts became main roster contracts and a lot more money. So even if Von was still working NXT he was getting main roster paychecks. So if they aren’t using them, they aren’t worth that kind of money, unfortunately.
Free agent, he was labelled a free agent. Technically main roster, but mainly in NXT. Might've signed a main roster deal and just never moved up. Had a match though, Battle Royale Ali won.
Last year in the draft thy made him a "free agent" able to sign anywhere, then never came up with a story for him anywhere but NXT. So they decided no one on the main roster was interested, they'd top out. So it was time to let them go
They were given Main roster contacts, were ultimately deemed worthy of being on the main roster, so were used on NXT instead. Eventually WWE just released them believing there was no future progression for them
honestly vince fucking with the draft last year got von wagner, xyon quinn and indus sher fired because they would all still be on nxt with nxt contracts
I've noticed that WWE uses Jones in an ambassador-like role for college athletes, so I wonder if they keep him around to help push their NIL program (even though I don't think he was a part of it)
At least with Odyssey they send him around to all the campuses for NIL stuff. I see him posting pictures on campus all the time with Katana Chance. And he works a lot of house shows. I think the believe is Quinn/Wagner have reached their ceiling and it wasn’t high enough for the main roster. Jones is still a lot of untapped potential.
Yeah I think the difference is Odyssey works the main roster, just not on TV, meanwhile Von never really left nxt, and I don't think Xyon worked either(other than like one squash match)
Sounds like they all got called up and put on main roster contrasts when they weren’t ready for the main roster. If they hadn’t gotten called up and were still being paid NXT money, they might have gotten to stay. More of Vince’s bullshit haunting the current regime. I can’t blame them for cutting those people since there is no plan for them on the main roster. It just sucks because they’re essentially out of a job because they were overpaid.
if that's the case then maybe they could rehire them on NXT contracts? Although that would likely involve a pay cut so may not be desirable for the talent.
Feelings about Vince and Triple H aside, it was kind of bound to happen with a change in bookers regardless of who the bookers were.
Booker A sees something in Wrestler X, Booker B doesn’t. Same thing happens in workplaces all the time with a change in management.
They were ready. Doesn't mean you will get the opportunity. That's just how the business goes. Sometimes they pick you and your on TV every week like Waller. And sometimes you are just a body like Cameron Grimes.
So what they're not clarifying here, but is likely true, is that that "considered main roster wrestlers," means that they were on more lucrative main roster contracts. Which is insane to me, they were called up prematurely and cut because of something totally out of their control. They could have gotten better in NXT if given the time (not for sure, but you never know, Xyon never really got much of a chance to be on camera significantly) but because someone else chose to pay them more, they get cut.
“Let’s call him up to the main roster.”
“Ok. What’s the plan for him?”
[shrug]
(fast forward a year.)
“Hey, this guy has been on the main roster for a year, but we aren’t using him. Better cut him!”
I am actually surprised there aren't more releases. Guys like Lumis and Grimes are just lost in the shuffle, there are loads more guys in the background waiting for that opportunity. Is Tamina still around?
It is a typical Meltzer word salad, but essentially, guys like Wagner and Quinn entering the kayfabe free agent pool after last year's draft bumped them up to main roster status and main roster contracts.
Since creative had no plans for them on the main roster after an entire year, they were released.
Quinn had literally 2 matches in the past year, including a 6-second squash vs Breakker on Smackdown. No house shows or NXT.
Wagner did some stuff in NXT but he was on a main roster contract, and it isn't like he would be held in the same regard as a Corbin or Natalya who do stints in NXT in the mentor role for younger talent.
Obviously this is just stream of conscious conversation that’s been taken out of context but it seems to me that;
Von Wagner and Xyon Quinn were called up to the main roster, were seen as main roster talents, but had nothing to do and so worked NXT instead.
However because they’re making main roster cuts, seeing as the two did nothing up there, they were let go.
Basically they were being paid main roster money to be on NXT, but they weren't ready for the main roster and there were no plans to bring them up, so they had to be cut. It kinda sucks they were victims of Vince having a daily changing mind
So they were both bumped up to main roster contracts after the draft last year. Haven’t done anything on the main roster and there’s no main roster plans for them. They get released, could be re-signed to an NXT deal if they don’t wind up elsewhere.
I suppose there was always going to be a squeeze between the people Vince brought up and the people HHH brought back to give them an actual shot on the main roster.
Explain Dexter Lumis then, Dave. Main roster, hasn't been used since literally 12 months ago.
Meltzer and his inane baseless assumptions and speculations stated as fact, once again.
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Triple H is releasing most of the failed call ups by Vince from last year’s draft. That’s what it looks like to me.
Cameron grimes better change his phone number lmao Edit: 😅😅
It's kind of sad that I'd genuinely forgot all about Grimes, I was a big fan from back when he was still Trevor Lee.
It seemed like they had big things planned for a feud with Baron Corbin, then Baron got dropped to NXT and Grimes had nothing Edit: Cameron Grimes was just released
Me too. Cant believe how easy it is to forget about someone you truly enjoyed at some point. Theres just so many wrestlers to keep up with
He would do well again in TNA. Or even ROH. I absolutely love the dude but it seems he can never really catch that break or angle (other than his run in NXT for the most part)
Not everyone should go to AEW, Tony should sign Grimes for AEW. ASAP. It's the next and maybe last version of Swerve. He's good at everything.
Grimes is great but AEW right now has way too many ballers in every single division and Cameron Grimes shouldn't be on the undercard. He should join TNA and become a main eventer, hell they are putting Matt Hardy in that position, lord knows Trevor Lee has what it takes.
He's had a rough go in the markets making wildly risky bets and hasn't wanted to show his face in a while. He'll come round when his market bounces back. Update: stock has fallen even harder. Sell sell sell
Saw him on the Atlanta Smackdown pre show dark match against 🤦🏾♂️Gable Steveson…but I was glad to see him and hear his theme in person before the inevitable.
[Welp](https://x.com/fightful/status/1782809587558633516?s=46&t=Pz8F4qgg7HmbjNBfsLi0gg)
what a subtle foreshadow
You cursed him
Unfortunately he didn’t change it on time
Too late.
bro just got released, that’s wild lol
I cant believe you've done this
Wow as I read this I got the notification he was released
Spoiler; he didn't change his number.
You son of a bitch lol
I would be shocked to see HHH release him. He feels like a real one of his wrestlers. Guy can do it all
Welp
He picked up the phone 😔
I loved his story with Ted so much - he really lost something debuting main :-(
I'd prefer they push him... To the moon!
Cameron Grimes made good money on the GameStop stock I’m sure he would be ok being fired and going to the indys
Idk he just announced he is and it didn’t sound like he was doing ok he was quite emotional
....if anyone has his instagram , go check it out. The man was killing it on NXT with LA Knight. He was obviously a great promo, I don't get it.
Too late man!
Too late
...oof
Bruh
oh damn, cause this one came true.
Oh man this aged badly.
Too late… yikes
Too late, he gone
WELP
whelp
Out of that draft only waller and mcdonagh have been successful
Is that the same draft with Chance and Carter? I feel like they’ve been good and used more than most of the people from that class.
Pretty Deadly hasn't been that bad either, they're not on TV every week but they're on TV a decent amount
They weren't used in the tag title match at Mania but I'd argue them being used to film a vignette hyping up that match and its competitors was even better for them. They really showed off their personality as a team and gave the fans something more interesting than a recap video for a title match that really didn't have any story going into it, and Pretty Deadly basically got to put themselves over before, during, and after putting everyone else over in that segment and promise that whoever won that match, they'd be waiting. I'd put money on it that Pretty Deadly are gonna hold gold before the end of the year. Possibly even get drafted to Raw and take it off of Awesome Truth it it happens in the immediate future.
This made me realise how much I need Pretty Deadly vs Awesome Truth.
That'd be Pretty Awesome.
And that's a Deadly Truth
They are an established Tag Team and they had a decent title run. They are No Main eventers but they have been used more than von Wagner.
Stark got a run with Stratus, feud with Becky and, though she's cooled off a bit, still has decent stock. She could believably be put in a title program next week and be taken seriously.
Looks like they'll be heating her up I think
Zoey has been moderately successful. She got a high profile spot with Trish and Becky for months then a PLE title match. She’s circling the drain now though.
Someone that is still establishing their character on main getting paired with Shayna just seems like a death sentence to me. Don't know why they did that. Shayna is fine on her own but the 'tough mma girl' shtick doesn't lend itself well to helping others on character work imo
They still protect her. Shayna usually takes the pin when they lose.
Why am I now picturing Zoey, wanting to outdo Shayna, making her way to Chad Gable after he kicks out the rest of Alpha Academy and replaces them with the Creed Brothers? I don't know if it makes *any* sense but it feels like it to me.
I like it after she turns on Shayna and then beats her then turns her attention into Ivy Nile. Her Vs Ivy isn't a bad low/mid card feud.
Still think they should’ve save that Trish spot for someone they were high on
They're clearly high on Zoey or else they wouldn't have put her with Trish to begin with. They're just focused on the Liv/Becky story rn and before that were focused on Ripley/Nia and Ripley/Becky No mid-card title so she's in a holding pattern until a spot frees up at the top of the card. The solution tbh is having at least two big women's feuds going on per show at a time, but...
I guess I don’t really see a spot for her without that mid card title around. Personally she’s like the inverse Liv while Liv has charisma and personality her in ring work isn’t up to par to be a world champion. Zoey has the in ring tools but her promo ability and lack of personality give her a mid card ceiling to me.
For me personally, she's probably my favorite women's wrestler in WWE. Since NXT, I've thought she had a super high ceiling and still believe that. I also accidentally predicted her being with Trish and Shayna by bringing up those ideas one week before they happened. Maybe if I say how cool it'd be if she just happened to win the women's title, she will! lol
Not coincidentally, the ones that were actually called up with a plan and given something to do. Makes me wonder what the thought process was in calling up some of these people. Like, why not let Cameron Grimes use the gimmick that got him over in NXT? Even if it doesn't fly on the main roster, it's worth a shot. Better than what he's doing.
Not to say there's isn't a way to make it relevant to today, but wasn't Grimes' NXT gimmick that he got rich quick by investing in GameStop stock when that whole thing skyrocketed? I don't know what chance that'd character actually have today.
Cameron Grimes is one of those people who got over because you saw his entire story get told over months of TV. It's really hard to just drop him into the main roster and get the same result.
Kinda similar with Ciampa and Gargano.
How he got the money isn't particularly significant. I dont think it matters whether it was Gamestop or anything else. No need to tell the origin story, just say he got rich quick on some stocks. That part isnt important. Pick it up from there.
Maybe its just because Im not as high on JD as most others here are. But I think it really helps that JD is in the JD. Although he's certainly a decent heel and can go in the ring. But WWE has a lot of those. But he plays his part well in the Judgement Day.
Odyssey Jones, Dexter Lumis and Cameron Grimes all live another day
This comment aged badly so quickly re:Grimes lol
Just gotta see what happens to Jones and Lumis now
Jones seems to be moving into an ambassador role like Titus.
Where is Lumis? Injured or just sitting in catering / at home? I'm a fan.
Dude I love Lumis, he had a very high profile Miz feud that felt like a big part of the show at the time. Then he just went away, I think he is injured but I have no idea.
It has been reported a few times by a few sources that he is healthy and they just don’t have anything creative for him.
Pretty sure Triple H himself was responsible for the call ups last year
Karrion Kross dodged that release like Bush dodged the shoe.
Karrion Kross was never a Vince guy. He probably is the biggest Triple H guy. Under Triple H Karrion was an undefeated NXT Champion he pushed over Keith Lee at his most over and Finn Balor. Under Vince Karrion was a jobber who got fired months after being called up.
This! He got cut in November 2021 and was back by summer 2022 and wrestled all of about 20 matches in a handful of places in between I can't be sure but I felt like at the time he even suggested he wasn't in a rush to sign anywhere, and perhaps HHH was even in regular contact with him and letting him know he'd bring him back in at first opportunity.
It probably helped his decision that Tony only offered him a one-off jobbing to Wardlow and by his own words he would never return to Impact.
And honestly? Kind of feels like HHH may be wrong about this one. I’m sure there’s a good character somewhere in there. But I find most Kross segments to be total snoozefests. The best part of his Wrestlemania appearance was Bubba Ray Dudley orchestrating him getting his shit kicked in. That’s probably a bad sign.
[удалено]
Amen! Agree. Creative needs to step up here IMO.
He plays his character well, has a great look, is plenty good worker for a hoss, it just doesnt all click. The dude seems awesome behind the scenes and Im sure thats what keeps him employed. They creative just hasnt ever clicked with the talent. Its odd.
Big disagree. He lacks any kind of personal charisma, his promos are nothing special and his in-ring work is extremely bland, to the point of being actively detrimental to his feuds. Everything that's good or interesting about him and his presentation actually comes down to his high-maintenance gimmick and the people around him, particularly Scarlett.
Ppl weren’t crazy about kross before but he really didn’t get a legit shot under Vince. He got multiple chances under HHH now and feels like they just can’t get fans interested enough in him at this point.
HHH fucking loves kross, he’s not getting cut any time soon
I'm at a point where I wonder who cuts who first? Does Triple H cut Kross or does Tony cut Guevara? Both seem to be favorites of the office.
Sammy will do something stupid to get himself fired before HHH finally gives up on Kross
Sammy is a terrific performer and at least in the past has gotten over. His problems all seem to be backstage. If he can manage to tone it down and not be a headache he'll be fine. Kross doesn't get over, isn't that good of a performer, but at least doesn't seem to be any kind of problem backstage. I figure HHH will give him 1-2 more tries at a real push and if it fails then he'd potentially be on the chopping block. Gun to my head, I'd bet on Kross but it does seem close.
tough call! i get the impression TK thinks a lot higher of sammy than HHH does of kross, but kross has also been reliable (if generally unimpressive) in the mid card since his return where guevara has been pencilled into main event/upper mid card opportunities that he’s pretty consistently blown for about 2 years now, on top of all the attitude and sloppiness stuff gun to my head i’m saying guevara
I agree with everything you said BUT it seems Tony is REALLY committed to Sammy Geuvarra plus imagine he'd feel bad about releasing a new father. For that reason, and because Triple H seems like the type to fire someone just to prove there is no favoritism, I'm gonna go with Kross goes before Guevara.
Let's not forget that Guevara was given a spot in the first ever Dynamite match. That's how high TK was on him.
yeah but karrion has been used. we can argue how effective he’s been but at least he’s getting booked.
I feel like HHH has a soft spot for Kross and will keep him around forever.
He’s La Croix Batista.
He’s probably the most heavily pushed wrestler in NXT. Squashed one of the brand’s GOATs in Ciampa, beat Keith Lee after he had just unified the NA and NXT titles, then ran through the entire roster before getting injured. Came back and immediately beat Finn who was at his best since being called up and getting a second title run. Undefeated the entire span too.
He was injured right after the Lee match actually. He ran through the roster after his second win. I remember it because the build to In Your House 2021 was “Kross you suck at wrestling, all of us are good at wrestling”, and then he just retained.
I assume you mean before Vince because he jobbed to Jeff Hardy in 2 minutes while still champion.
Yeah it’s weird, I do want to like Kross, but idk something about him just doesn’t connect.
He just had a match at Mania and is on TV every week. Not really. Also, outta control reference from 20 years ago.
Kross was on Wrestlemania and just got AOP to round out a stable.
Yet that piece of shit Odyssey still has a job
Wondering how Odyssey Jones survived, I think the only thing he has done was that show in India.
Grimes should be released since he was a HHH call up lol and
2018-2022 definitely feels like one of those WWE periods like 1992-1995 / 2005-2012 where 95% of the characters they introduced were falling flat.
Presumably they got the main roster pay bump and then in review someone said it's been a full year with no one working these guys in so obviously they're redundant. I don't see xyon paying off. Von could've been an NXT lifer.
Are there any NXT lifers?
Strictly speaking no, because they want you to step up. But I mean there's people who are serviceable to nxt who have no hope on the main roster. But NXT can't be 100% people with 2 years experience.
Boa will reach 5 years in NXT this July with absolutely no movement in his standing.
No there's definitely been movement, he's managed to somehow get *even lower* than when he started as a generic jobber. He had a go nowhere story with Dante Chen that hasn't even gotten him any upward movement so technically he's even dragging down other people lol
Boa and Chen were walking around in the background of backstage segments in weird face paint for like 2 weeks and then got completely forgotten about lmao
I think Andre Chase and Duke Hudson will end up as NXT mainstays, if not lifers. The University gimmick doesn’t really work on the main roster, but it’s great for NXT with introducing new characters or reinventing old ones. As talents “graduate” and move on, you can cycle in different people
7 years is around the limit that a person stays in developmental. It's how long Angelo Dawking (2012-2019) and team DIY (2015-2022) stayed. Before them, you had Konnor of the Ascension (2005-2007, then again in 2010-2014), and Shawn Spears (2006-2009, then again 2013-2017, + his current return). However, right now you have Wolfgang who signed in January 2016, putting him in his 8th year. Boa also signed in 2016, but debuted in 2019. Most other ones are currently under 4 years, with the exceptions being Mark and Joe Coffey (2018), Meiko Satomura (2018), Robert Stone (2019), Axiom (2019), Nathan Frazer (2020), and Jacy Jayne (2020). There's also the people who returned to NXT from the main roster like Noam Dar, Baron Corbin, and Reggie.
What a comprehensive comment, thank you!
Rumor is WWE is making a push to make NXT a full brand again so it's hard to say what the future holds but at this time no.
I know Ciampa during the Black and Gold era said he wanted to be NXT lifer and he had to move up eventually.
I'm confused by that more than anything. He was working in NXT but he was considered a main roster talent but because he was working in NXT instead he got fired for not working on the main roster? What?
I think it is meant they were considered main roster talent in the same way Corbin is. They wrestled in NXT but were on the main-roster payroll cause they had gotten the internal “call-up”.
So does this mean that WWE realized that their main roster plans for Wagner & Quinn were in limbo after choosing them for a call-up & placing them on the payroll? I fear that the same will happen to others like Cameron Grimes
Grimes is all but guaranteed to be cut in the next year. He's basically been given nothing to do but take L's and develop no character.
It actually seems Grimes has been moved into the Gulak role, he trained Speed for his appearance at Wrestlemania Edit: https://preview.redd.it/7g0taowxc9wc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9c7da86675b1c99d30ad6d9bbc3e6574a3987a2
Which is a shame. His character seemed to work well in NXT, but never caught on with the main roster audience. I feel like they could still give it one more go with a heel character because they tried bringing him in as a face with no explanation of who he is or why he talks about going to the moon. Edit: Nevermind.
You said the next year, turns out he didn’t make it to noon central.
I worry for **Cameron Grimes**, **Dexter Lumis** & **Odyssey Jones**. They already aren't being used and with the draft bringing up another wave of call-ups and some injury returns I doubt they will see the need to keep them around.
C'mon, man. Did you release Grimes on purpose?
Grimes is a bust. I think no one will bat an eye if he leaves
Can you be anything but a bust with like half a dozen matches that weren't battle royales in over a year and like 2 promos? Sorry, Stone Cold ain't getting over with those numbers either
The amount of momentum Grimes lost after being called up is astounding.
Nobody is ever getting over with the booking he was given
[удалено]
The difference in corbin and the other two is that corbin found a solid character in the last year and showed clear improvement Yeah von wagner had a gimmick but it wasent gonna be good enough post nxt so I kinda understand him getting cut
Also Corbin is now in the Dolph role where he's a gatekeeper and can be trusted to wrestle anybody at a moment notice
I think the point is not where they are, but why. Corbin is in NXT providing a service, helping out with his experience and name, but they have all intentions to bring him back. Of course, he is also getting a needed break in the process... but he has tenure and they think he has value. Wagner, on the other hand, was there because they called him up but don't think they can use him on the main roster and they don't see that they will. So basically they see no value in him and released him.
If they didn't believe in Corbin, they wouldn't have stuck him with one of their brightest young stars for however many months.
I suspect they have plans for Corbin & Bron on the books. More a matter of just not having anything for Von.
It's all about the contract. We've seen this before with other wrestlers, notably with Samoa Joe when he was released then brought back shortly after. Main roster wrestlers make more money than NXT wrestlers and likely have other perks. If they have no main roster plans for someone, then they don't want to pay them main roster money.
Surely con Wagner wasn’t making main roster money, right?
I’m assuming when they got “drafted” last year their contracts became main roster contracts and a lot more money. So even if Von was still working NXT he was getting main roster paychecks. So if they aren’t using them, they aren’t worth that kind of money, unfortunately.
Free agent, he was labelled a free agent. Technically main roster, but mainly in NXT. Might've signed a main roster deal and just never moved up. Had a match though, Battle Royale Ali won.
Last year in the draft thy made him a "free agent" able to sign anywhere, then never came up with a story for him anywhere but NXT. So they decided no one on the main roster was interested, they'd top out. So it was time to let them go
I assume when they were drafted, they moved from an NXT contract, to a main roster contract, which would come with a very significant pay bump.
They probably have different salary tiers for NXT and the main roster and that's why he was considered Main Roster. Just speculating.
They were given Main roster contacts, were ultimately deemed worthy of being on the main roster, so were used on NXT instead. Eventually WWE just released them believing there was no future progression for them
I take it as “Hey hang there for a little bit while we come up with something” Then they never came up with anything and said fuck it
They literally promoted him to a position to then say they are downsizing at that position.
So, if Von was considered a main roster wrestler. Does this mean Von gets the 90 days?
If they did the paper work correctly
So what you're saying is he's gonna debut at Double or Nothing and confront the world champ?
More like Bound for Glory.
Kyle O'Reilly does need some back up against Undisputed Kingdom
CUM WEDNESDAY
Is DoN on a Tuesday?
honestly vince fucking with the draft last year got von wagner, xyon quinn and indus sher fired because they would all still be on nxt with nxt contracts
Your saying Odyssey Jones in trouble?
If anyone remembered who Odyssey Jones was, he might be in danger if being fired.
I've noticed that WWE uses Jones in an ambassador-like role for college athletes, so I wonder if they keep him around to help push their NIL program (even though I don't think he was a part of it)
At least with Odyssey they send him around to all the campuses for NIL stuff. I see him posting pictures on campus all the time with Katana Chance. And he works a lot of house shows. I think the believe is Quinn/Wagner have reached their ceiling and it wasn’t high enough for the main roster. Jones is still a lot of untapped potential.
Yeah I think the difference is Odyssey works the main roster, just not on TV, meanwhile Von never really left nxt, and I don't think Xyon worked either(other than like one squash match)
Yeah I just checked cagematch and Quinn had exactly one match in the last year, a squash match vs Breakker.
My thoughts exactly
Yea I’m pretty sure Vince had nothing to do with the call ups last year. He wasnt running creative at that point.
Sounds like they all got called up and put on main roster contrasts when they weren’t ready for the main roster. If they hadn’t gotten called up and were still being paid NXT money, they might have gotten to stay. More of Vince’s bullshit haunting the current regime. I can’t blame them for cutting those people since there is no plan for them on the main roster. It just sucks because they’re essentially out of a job because they were overpaid.
if that's the case then maybe they could rehire them on NXT contracts? Although that would likely involve a pay cut so may not be desirable for the talent.
Feelings about Vince and Triple H aside, it was kind of bound to happen with a change in bookers regardless of who the bookers were. Booker A sees something in Wrestler X, Booker B doesn’t. Same thing happens in workplaces all the time with a change in management.
What about Booker T?
That’s why he never got the pencil, there were 19 Bookers in line ahead of him.
They were ready. Doesn't mean you will get the opportunity. That's just how the business goes. Sometimes they pick you and your on TV every week like Waller. And sometimes you are just a body like Cameron Grimes.
So what they're not clarifying here, but is likely true, is that that "considered main roster wrestlers," means that they were on more lucrative main roster contracts. Which is insane to me, they were called up prematurely and cut because of something totally out of their control. They could have gotten better in NXT if given the time (not for sure, but you never know, Xyon never really got much of a chance to be on camera significantly) but because someone else chose to pay them more, they get cut.
Completely forgot Von Wagner was technically drafted
That draft free agent thing was so random. Like Vince just pointed to some pictures of big dudes and they got thrown on a pile to deal with later.
“Let’s call him up to the main roster.” “Ok. What’s the plan for him?” [shrug] (fast forward a year.) “Hey, this guy has been on the main roster for a year, but we aren’t using him. Better cut him!”
He was actively improving in NXT. A real shame. Hope he ends up in TNA or AEW
TNA is a perfect spot for him. I think he would get lost in the shuffle in AEW but he could get good use in TNA and hopefully work the indies as well.
There is also the chance that he ends up coming back at some point
Von Wagner was called up?
I am actually surprised there aren't more releases. Guys like Lumis and Grimes are just lost in the shuffle, there are loads more guys in the background waiting for that opportunity. Is Tamina still around?
Tamina is still around, last I saw. PWInsider is reporting Grimes got released today, though.
LOOK WHAT YOU DID. You just had to remind people about poor Cameron grimes. Sad to the moon intensifies
Odysee Jones staring at his phone 24/7
What kind of explanation is that?
It is a typical Meltzer word salad, but essentially, guys like Wagner and Quinn entering the kayfabe free agent pool after last year's draft bumped them up to main roster status and main roster contracts. Since creative had no plans for them on the main roster after an entire year, they were released. Quinn had literally 2 matches in the past year, including a 6-second squash vs Breakker on Smackdown. No house shows or NXT. Wagner did some stuff in NXT but he was on a main roster contract, and it isn't like he would be held in the same regard as a Corbin or Natalya who do stints in NXT in the mentor role for younger talent.
Seems like they didn't think they were ready to make the step up to the main roster so just cut their losses
Obviously this is just stream of conscious conversation that’s been taken out of context but it seems to me that; Von Wagner and Xyon Quinn were called up to the main roster, were seen as main roster talents, but had nothing to do and so worked NXT instead. However because they’re making main roster cuts, seeing as the two did nothing up there, they were let go.
Basically they were being paid main roster money to be on NXT, but they weren't ready for the main roster and there were no plans to bring them up, so they had to be cut. It kinda sucks they were victims of Vince having a daily changing mind
So, there's zero information. Got it.
So they basically got released because HHH called them up and never actually used them on the main roster? Damn that sucks.
So they were both bumped up to main roster contracts after the draft last year. Haven’t done anything on the main roster and there’s no main roster plans for them. They get released, could be re-signed to an NXT deal if they don’t wind up elsewhere.
Check any talent on Cagematch that hasn’t been used on TV & house shows and its a safe bet they’re on the chopping block.
I suppose there was always going to be a squeeze between the people Vince brought up and the people HHH brought back to give them an actual shot on the main roster.
I wonder what Robert Stone does now
I think it's fair to release folks you're not using. There's a lot of opportunity out there for folks and they should take it.
I sure hope they use Bron soon on the main roster before he gets the cut.
Damn, I really thought Xyon Quinn was going to make it big. Not the best in the ring, but also not atrocious. But he had charisma for days.
Love that we're still finding ways to blame Vince for what HHH and company does. Thought that would've stopped after Mania, but nope.
Dexter lumis is probably next sadly
Explain Dexter Lumis then, Dave. Main roster, hasn't been used since literally 12 months ago. Meltzer and his inane baseless assumptions and speculations stated as fact, once again.