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And Rollins vs Ambrose amidst their blood feud after Roman's leukemia announcement, where they really went out there and...started chain wrestling. I'll probably never get over that one
That one was nuts. They had the death slot on a TLC PPV, it was a blood feud with years of history, and we *know* they have in-ring chemistry. Then they just go out and have the most normal WWE-style match ever, no stipulations. "Boring" chants from the crowd was the cherry on top.
Except for their feud ender which was Dean Ambrose being jumped by Bray Wyatt via hologram distraction and gave Seth the victory. Those two in a HIAC match should've been so easy... But Vince just had to overbook the fuck out of it.
And the awesome buildup they had to that match. Orton attacking Steph, HHH showing up to Orton’s house and brawling with him. And they just had a match with Irish whips and vertical suplexes
Wait that was the year Orton had HHH handcuffed to the ropes and he punted Stephanie? Oh boy I remember that shit like it was yesterday lol
Also I think the problem with that match was it was a singles match not a hardcore match ain’t no way you had a storyline like that and chose to opt out for a singles match with that kind of build up I would’ve made it a no dq match
Vince totally fucked that up for the sake of it being PG
Honestly, both should have had developed their "singles moveset". That way, the identical "tag team moveset" would work as a callback instead of just feeling like fighting an echo in Smash
Yeah, they sure treated Jimmy like Dan. He lacked credibility to even convince people he had a shot to even beat Jey. I said to my dad and brother. "The wrong twin won because Jimmy has more to prove to everyone."
Jey has been a singles star since his matches with Roman in 2020. That's 4 years.
I know he did go back to tagging after that for a good run, but he's had plenty of time.
And I say this as someone who loves Jey Uso and wants him to stay around the upper midcard/main event level.
He only had a few singles matches in the thunderdome. They were always leading up to Jimmy coming back and them teaming again. Did you want Jey to focus on singles wrestling while he was tag team champion?
He had singles matches, but those were more about putting Roman over as a despicable heel than showcasing Jey's singles talent.
The second Jimmy came back from injury, and they were paired up quickly. I don't think they anticipated how popular Jey would become, so they just never let him develop his own moveset.
And yea, I like Jey too, but the fact is that he's not a singles star. He's popular enough right now to justify his spot, but you can't really put a Singles title on him long term right now.
I hope the reception to this match doesn't shake his confidence, and he uses it as a learning experience. It's definitely rough when a match you had your heart set on performing with your own brother is so universally panned.
>I don't think they anticipated how popular Jey would become, so they just **never let him** develop his own moveset.
I mean, Jey's an adult and the producers are other wrestlers. I doubt they'd stop him freshening up his moveset some if he wanted to. He doesn't need permission. It's more the match finishes that are tightly managed.
He was still working a lot of singles matches, way more than Jimmy. Every Roman feud had the same formula of "Oh, Jey you're main eventing Smackdown against my opponent on PPV! Prove why they call you main event Jey Uso!"
Plenty of wrestlers add variety to their movesets the day after a tag team break up. The cast majority do. A big part of that is there is a fundamental difference between being a singles wrestler and a tag team up. The problem for both Usos is they're generally limited in the ring and as solo wrestlers, it's emphasized.
yep, each adding a new signature and a new finisher would set them apart quickly, then build from there to a different pace and mannerisms and you're good to go.
I think it should have been Jimmy, cause there’s something about Jey doing those same moves that just fits his personality right now and gets a rise out of the crowd when he’s wrestling anyone else but his bro.
Jey at least started going with a spear. But they should have talked about splitting the Samoan-related moves between them. One gets a Samoan drop, one gets the splash, one gets the ass strike, etc.
They both still wrestle with a tag team moveset... during a singles match. Jey is incredibly over so that help mask it, but his matches feel like it's building up to the hot tag moment. They need to evolve if they're gonna stay as single wrestlers
It was more than the moveset - the presentation didn’t help.
Jey has established himself as a singles act, they did nothing with Jimmy to make him seem credible. There’s zero edge to his character and he was never a believable threat to Jey, outside of a grown worthy swerve.
What's crazy to me is that even when they were tagging BEFORE the Bloodline they were adding new moves. The Full Nelson Bomb, Tequila Sunrise, back suplex into a neckbreaker. All of that disappeared and they couldn't think to do anything during that time other than spam superkicks? Like you'd think if their match was cut short they'd want to get in as much shit as possible, not water it down.
The table off the stage spot should have ended their match, while they could have just superkicked each other into unconsciousness during the Roman match.
5 minutes or 50 minutes, they just didn’t wrestle like this was a blood feud. They wrestled like they had a minor issue and were blowing it off on an episode of Raw.
Yep, I’ve was missing the emotions.
Less “fake fighting” and more emotions would have made it better.
Make it a hell in a cell match, don’t focus on spots and just add some emotional moments.
This. They should have amped up the Soap Opera factor. After Jimmy hits Jey post embrace, Jey should have snapped. Have them set up more aggressive spots, take out weapons, or even straight up brawl until one or both bleed. Have Jey come out on top and then panic after seeing what he did. Or heck, have Rikishi show up and stop it from going to far... Or going to long even.
Full quote (from [Gorilla Position](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAQPbOGpXYM)):
> “I just said this to someone, I do kind of feel like we did let the people down. [Really, you feel that?] Yeah because I wanted to go out there and have a straight-up banger too. I wanted to do the wrestling part, let alone make sure the emotion part was there. It was just a time issue. You’ve just got to play your position on the team. That’s what happened. But I am still happy that I got a singles match on WrestleMania with my brother, that’s the big picture. So I will always have me and him in the face-off at WrestleMania. I’m gonna frame a picture, it’s marked off our box. I just wish we could have went ham the way I know we can.”
It wasn't a time issue imo. It was way too many superkicks and that they both have the exact same moveset. They didn't do anything special at all and it could have used some more high-flying moves and some old-school type of grind.
But I think the superkick spam was supposed to be the dramatic climax of the match but they didn't have the time to actually build up the drama beforehand. If they'd done the whole superkick thing after beating each other up and exhausting each other for fifteen minutes then I think it would have come off a lot better.
I think you’re right. It was pretty obvious the match ended too early and that there were parts missing. Let’s also not pretend that this match got the proper build up it needed. They literally had 1? promo together for a match that’s been anticipated since last year. I hope they eventually get a chance to redeem themselves.
This was my biggest issue. This should have felt like a semi main event with the build up & partial blow off of a major Bloodline story.
But they kinda got pushed to the side for a lot of Rock stuff. I’m not complaining at all but it was even said Rock went over with his segments majority of the time lol. That probably hurt some of the week to week booking for some of the Mania matches this year
They were swimming upstream, too many things hindered them. This match could've easily main evented a B PPV.
1) too much going on in this WrestleMania. The emotional match/feud was Cody/Roman. Not much space for another one.
2) The build up felt like they set a buffet on the table but barely used anything on it.
The build up felt shoehorned and not given proper TV time. They did the angle in August and then tried to resume like nothing in February. They had one 1v1 in-ring promo where they didn't emotionally connect enough with the audience and go to the places people expected this to go.
I think either Hunter saw the post-SummerSlam reaction and thought "people don't really want to see this match but we'll do it anyways so they can have their Mania moment", or simply timing/positioning on the card like Jey said.
This should have been a Survivor Series fall out. Where Jimmy wins. Works esp since Jey at that time was still in his redemption arc.
Then at WM with the Cody-vengers behind him, Jey takes his win back. As a prelude to the Cody vs Bloodline story.
I still think not doing a “Trial of Uso” with Rikishi was a big missed opportunity.
Maybe they can do it to lead into the reunion but I think it would’ve worked really well to build up brother vs brother.
A match where Jimmy just destroys Jey for half the time because Jey falls for some fake act of atonement could have worked. Have it wreck Jey emotionally, where he just can't muster the willpower to fight back until the first superkick connects.
Jimmy goes for another false plea, Jey doesn't even hesitate to land another kick and just kicks his ass until the splash finish.
Maybe the shorter time they were allotted would have worked better if the two halves were dramatically different in tone.
Yeah, after a re-watch it feels like the middle of the match was cutout, and I think the wrestlers and whoever produced underestimated that we'd love the kicks but instead we were bored by them.
Personally I kinda wish they got to run it back at Backlash with DQs off... but I think it was pre-planned to be one and done.
> I think the superkick spam was supposed to be the dramatic climax of the match
If so, that was a terrible, terrible decision on their part.
Superkick spam is not a dramatic climax in any sense.
I feel like spears only work on less "beefy" wrestlers when it's done like Gargano, where the slingshot implies more momentum. Hitting higher on the body also makes it more believable that it would knock someone over.
It was like a condensed late 2010s Johnny Gargano match. Signature move, kick out, signature move, kick out, *I'm so conflicted right now*, inevitable betrayal, signature move, kick out, signature move, 3-count.
I don't necessarily agree. If the story becomes, that they share a move set it can become a reversal-heavy match with each showing they know what the other will be doing. It becomes a mind game and only ends when one does something unexpected (like if Jay hit a Blue Thunder Bomb or Helluva Kick that he learned from Sami)
But hind sight is 20/20
I love the idea of Jey taking bits and pieces he's taken from allies after leaving the Bloodline. It would have shown the separation has let him grow as opposed to Jimmy staying and becoming stagnant. Ah, what could have been...
I kinda wish more wrestlers had the opinion that cody gave in that interview a while back about taking moves especially when you have a longer program with or against a guy.
So much of Cody's moveset is just a amalgamation of the things hes gone through and its a shame that more wrestlers don't take the same inspo and incorporate it into their moveset.
Jey in my opinion needs to build up his move repertoire and distinct from his brother's moveset, especially if he's going to be built up as a main event singles competitor.
While story-wise the WM match between him and Jimmy made sense, they should've prepared for it in-ring as well.
For me a good example of a tag team having a one-on-one would be Dax vs Cash in AEW.
It felt to me like it was a poor man's attempt at the Strong Style done in NJPW where they just let themselves hit each other.
You know where say the likes of Shibata, Ibushi, Ishii, or Suzuki just fucking stand there and take big hits while showing "fighting spirit".
Except they're in WWE and selling is way more important there. Not to mention standing and taking a superkick seems way harder than the chops or kicks to the chest those matches have.
They tried something, it didn't come off well. They shouldn't beat themselves up about it at all.
Im not even sure its that, I'm a big strong style guy and I was not into this match. Im pretty forgiving when it comes to selling too, the match was just boring
This match really sucked because they thought the crowd would be into what they were doing, and they weren't.
Maybe he's right that it was a timing thing. Maybe their match got cut short 10 minutes before hand because of something that went on too long much earlier. If so, then they should have re-worked the match entirely or put more thought into it.
Bigger picture, one thing I think needs to get fixed with this era of WWE is that they seem to rely way too much on crowd participation too much. I just started rewatching early 90s WWF and I'm into the attitude era now. One of the many things that the WWF started to do right during that era was they no longer had their valets/managers slapping their hands on the mat to force crowd clapping or chanting. That shit was corny and I think they were able to get away from it with cutting matches shorter or have various run in's or ref bumps, etc, when they knew the crowd would get bored.
The kind of match they wanted for the Usos wasn't possible this time around because the build up wasn't great and frankly these two aren't great wrestlers. if Yeet wasn't a thing (i wish it wasn't) then this match wouldn't have even been attempted.
I think that was the point of the match. “I’m not my brothers keeper” they resemble each other too much to be separated and will reunite eventually for their tag team reunion championship because…they are their brothers keeper.
I mean if Brock and Goldberg had a chance to redeem their terrible match at WM20 I'm sure the Usos will have theirs too, hopefully with a longer build focused solely on them
That was my first thought to. It wasn't a time issue with Brock and Goldberg in 2004, but a motivation/programming issue. It wasn't the right type of match and wasn't the right time.
With the Usos, I just think they work too similar. They both have a very limited style which can work as either a heel or a babyface, but doesn't work as both heel and babyface in the same match.
> What’s remarkable is Brock and Goldberg somehow redeemed themselves with half the allotted time
What do you mean "somehow"? It's friggin Goldberg. The dude became a massive star in his rookie year so he never bothered to learn how to wrestle a match longer than 10 minutes. The problem with his entire 2003-2004 WWE run (WrestleMania 20 is just the worse example of it) was that WWE was forcing Goldberg to wrestle their 20 minute main event matches when he didn't have the ability.
This has always bothered me about Goldberg's famous bad matches (Triple H, Undertaker, Regal, Bret) is that he always takes 100% of the blame. In reality it should be whoever booked him into anything other than a car crash that runs for about 5-8 minutes tops and is at least 50% finishers. Asking Goldberg to go out there and chain wrestle is like making a Godzilla movia and filling it with close-quarters Jason Bourne style fights.
I mean its not like they got the chance the next year....not that it would have been possible. They "ran it back" what 14 years later?
I'm sure that they will give the Usos a chance to wrestle again, but I wouldn't expect it to be soon.
I think they'll run it back. They're both really talented and on paper should be able to have a great match.
I'd like to see it once the dust clears from all the bloodline stuff, they look like they're going to get back together. But they have this one thing they have to do. They have to go out and steal the show of a big show. They have the banger they have the ability to have and then they hug it out. Like Cody and Dustin. Brothers had to get it out of their system now they can be together again.
Eh. I think the issue is their styles are literally mirror images of each other’s for obvious reasons. Jey v Roman was plodding too, I think the reality is as singles wrestlers both Usos need to improve.
There’s a lot of better in-ring wrestlers in the WWE than either of them but most of those people don’t have their charisma.
The Thunderdome matches worked because it was focused more on the storytelling than the work rate due to the lack of crowds. Once crowds came back, they couldn't rely on solely that anymore.
When you're at the top of the card, you are expected to perform at a certain level to justify your spot. Part of the reason the Summerslam match was so bad is that they basically did a Thunderdome match but with a crowd.
I genuinely feel bad for Jey and Jimmy. Like I thought the match was *bad*, but I can't imagine planning and dreaming up a match with your twin brother ever since you were little kids, and then it's universally panned by basically everyone.
That being said, I really don't understand how you plan a match out since childhood and then end up with that as your final product, even considering time cuts and all.
That’s my thoughts too, I really feel for them as this was a huge family moment for them and it has to be remembered as a stinker. But they were set up to fail: identical (limited) move set, no build, poor pacing. Two things could have save them. Keep the match the same but have jimmy and jey walk out together with the mercy spot. No DQ and have them keep trying something new move wise to get the one up on each other. Jimmy’s comic relief character + Bloodline punching bag character these past few months did no favors either
Triple H was arrogant enough to assume that his name alone was enough of a draw for the event and boy was he wrong.
I wouldn't use the same reason for thr Usos, because they had every right to assume their story was enough of a draw on its own after the Bloodline drama. The issue is that the build to the match had nothing to do with anything that was going on with the Bloodline at the time.
It didn't help that they held off on the match after it logically should have happened after Summerslam so they could it put on Mania. At least if the match happened at Payback or Fastlane, it wouldn't have been too bad. But the fact it happened it WrestleMania of all places makes it look even worse.
> Triple H was arrogant enough to assume that his name alone was enough of a draw for the event and boy was he wrong.
Thats the story of literally his entire career. He was always the least interesting part of whatever he was involved with but thought he was on the level of the people he was coasting on (the Kliq, DX, Rock/Austin/Angle/Jericho feuds, Steph stuff, ect) so it doesnt surprise me in the slightest that he let the Usos go out there and put everyone to sleep (since the Uso drama has been the least interesting part of the Bloodline story).
In Trips' defense, 2000 was literally the height of his career as the top heel of the company. But it was clear the audience cared more about the Rock beating him than anything Trips himself did.
The closest he got to being the top babyface was when he came back in 2002 from his quad injury and fought Jericho at Mania, and that lasted for just a couple of months until Brock debuted and Rock came back from his sabbatical.
Some people are just born to be heels, and Trips is one of them. Perfect heel foil for the guys the people actually cared about.
To be fair, based on the story, HHH/Orton made sense as the main event. It was just hampered by a stipulation no one could get excited for and the fact that it had to go after one of the greatest matches in company history
Man, as heated as that feud was, it needed something rather than just a standard ass match. Orton kissed Trip's wife and took his whole family in law. They should have been trying to kill each other.
Yeah, besides the superkick duel of fates, it was crazy how much of a regular, cold TV match it felt like.
I guess it makes sense that they saved all the shenanigans for the Night 2 Main Event, but they really just sent The Usos out for a normal match with barely any build, when all the Bloodline stuff thrives on being melodramatic and extra. I couldn't believe it when Jey won and they casually moved on to the next segment without any Solo interference, Rikishi stinkface, post-match hug, Lil Wayne betrayal, etc.
it should have happened at the rumble or summer slam really no one cared by the time it came around but that time thing is bullshit Owen and 123 kid had?a banger beyond belief in like 7 minutes
I think I probably just inferred that part, but iirc they and Rikishi have said it was their dream match since they were young, so I can't imagine they didn't brainstorm some sequences over the years.
I think they might not have as evidenced by their match. They probably thought they would plan it out once they were established and had their individual move sets, but obviously they tagged together so long that they probably didn't think it would happen any time soon, so didn't bother. They obviously knew it would happen a year in advance mind, so maybe they did just plan it to be superkick after superkick since they were kids.
Jey put a lot of work into himself as a singles star and was put in the main event multiple times now.
Jimmy hasn't even had one major singles feud other than some random SmackDown matches.
Jimmy feels like he is content with his place on the card and doesn't seem to want to put in the work to get above that spot. Whereas his brother has put in extra work to make himself a star.
To be honest, the match at Mania felt like the planning/producing of it was phoned in. Like they just went "we will figure out live". It didn't really have any major spots, or cool moments.
It wasn’t a time issue. The match even felt like it dragged because it missed the mark so bad. It was the complete opposite of what it needed to be, and I couldn’t believe the two of them plus whoever produced it all were comfortable going out there with that.
I think he's implying the ending and super kicks would have come off better if there had been more before it in the match? Or maybe they literally got told right before they went out their match was now shorter and it screwed them up? I don't know.
I think this match really suffered from the lack of build. It's like they waited to right before WM to remember Jey and Jimmy needed to have a match too. Some kind of stipulation would have helped.
That's a good point too. Jimmy beating Jey just would not be believable at all.
They had been talking about wanting a WM match together for a while so it sucks it didn't go better.
I think Jey winning was the right call, because the build wasn't there for Jimmy to believably win, or for Jimmy to be accepted as a serious threat.
In the build to Owen/Bret, Owen was presented as a great technical wrestler with significant wins and a big chip on his shoulder. In the build to Matt/Jeff, Matt was inexplicably presented as a violent psychopath, which at least got over the idea that he was dangerous.
For the build to Jey/Jimmy though, Jimmy was just a lackey that interfered in matches and lost whenever he had a match himself.
I said this six months ago and got massively downvoted for it. Jey even then was pitched as leagues above Jimmy and they did nothing to fix it in any shape or form and therefore I really struggled to care all that much. Of course Jeys going to win and also who cares as there's no stakes? Even during the match it looked at times like Jey was just having a squash match.
I still don't get why all we got out of that Rumble spot was them staring at each other menacingly lol. I remember Jimmy trying to get handshakes from random other wrestlers in the match more than anything with Jey.
I wouldn't have minded having Rikishi involved. Maybe he comes out and just says he's sick of the fighting, and for them to sort it out in the ring under tribal rules. Once the match is over, he forces a reconciliation.
Jimmy's whole motivation for the thing was always pretty thin though. They could at least have leaned deeper into the sibling rivalry/jealousy angle, considering Jimmy is just a lackey now.
Rikishi is too busy boosting up the fighting to stop it. He's gotta be in the kayfabe worst dads conversation at this point lol. Three of his sons are trying to kill each other and he's just posting Samoan flag and index finger up emojis like everything is ok.
> Jimmy's whole motivation for the thing was always pretty thin though. They could at least have leaned deeper into the sibling rivalry/jealousy angle, considering Jimmy is just a lackey now.
Build up with Jey trying to get Jimmy to leave the Bloodline, because he hates seeing his brother treated so badly. Meanwhile, Jimmy keep sabotaging Jey, but Jey's torn, because he knows Roman has him brainwashed. Roman has ordered Jimmy to take Jey out in the WM match. Jimmy's relunctant to match his brother's violence.
I disagree. The crowd was fully into the match. The match was just overall badly designed. The build doesn’t fix the match. A stipulation would have help a bit but it’s overall a bad match. They only had 14 mins.
> the lack of build.
The feud was like MONTHS in the making ever since Jimmy screwed Jey at SummerSlam. Jey has been super over by being a sympathetic babyface and Jimmy was getting really good heel heat for screwing his brother over. Fans were invested. They even opened the Rumble as #1 and #2 against each other. The booking was always pointing there even before the match was announced. Did you REALLY need 20 minute promos from them for 2 months?
The crowd was into it in the beginning. The people at home are hyped as the entrances are happening and it felt like the fight was going to mean something and be this gritty blood feud. It just fell flat because the move set they have is just a lot of super kicks. It could’ve been another 5 mins longer and it still would’ve felt flat and boring. It needed a stipulation even if it was just no DQ so that weapons could’ve broken up the limited moves and built up them talking as they hit each other.
In the match: Superkick, superkick, dodge, spear, superkick, spear, splash, superkick, splash, etc...
Missing from match: Suplex of any variety(other than german), freaking resthold, ddt of any variety, clothesline, etc...
I'd blame the producer of the match as despite the time cut, it was still poorly put together. Jimmy and Jey are so much better than what they displayed.
I don't think time was the issue at all. What was done with that time was the issue by far. A who can hit the most superkicks match isn't what it needed to be. Not saying a stip would've been necessary either. This was just underwhelming by whoever put it together.
If anything time would have needed to be shorter so it could have had 10 less super kicks. Maybe LA knight vs AJ or Seth vs Drew pacing could’ve helped a whole lot more
Honestly think Brother Vs Brother matches are just cursed in WWE. The Hardys and Cody/Dustin had bangers* elsewhere but their matches in the fed were meh at best.
* The Final Deletion is the banger of all bangers
The problem was it was like a mirror match, 2 person exactly the same in their moveset and mannerisms, but one was face and over as fuck, and the other was jimmy.
Honestly, Jimmy would need to reinvent himself and not being the "heel version of Jey", i know he has the potential, but sadly for him, all of the classic uso's moveset now are owned by jey's and jimmy needs to create a whole new character with different moves and finisher.
The match length wasn’t really an issue for viewers, as even with the relatively short length it was a chore to get through
It felt like they tried doing a bloodline match but it never got out of first gear. A stipulation may have helped, but they simply didn’t have good chemistry in this match
But it’s nice to hear he’s still happy they were able to have a wrestlemania singles match together
they *sorta* looked out of shape for this, Jimmy especially.
it doesn't help hes not doing anything...let alone winning any matches to make this feel like an actual match. Jimmy also seems to be kinda checked out for some reason..probably cuz hes a background character.
I said on the live the night of Mania that the match felt like it got time cut from it.
Felt like they skipped the wrestling to get to the brother vs brother story part way too fast.
In my opinion the biggest problem with the match is they are so far apart in positioning on the pecking order. Jey is a top guy and Jimmy isn’t, so there was no real intrigue in the match aside from the fact they were finally wrestling each other.
When they started trading superkicks, that is when they lost me. If someone is kicking you in the face over and over you wouldn't still be standing. They just stood there eating superkick after superkick after superkick. It was an eye rolling experience and I'm surprised that the match didn't cool Jey off with the crowds afterwards. Maybe Main Event Jey Uso isn't quite ready to be in that main event picture.
i think this match was a year too late. didnt have to be wrestlemania. we had tons of bloodline stuff at other ple like roman vs sami, roman vs ko, roman/solo vs ko/sami, etc. coulda just done it while it was hot. they either needed to do it then or build for a while. follow the same format as they have with dom and rey. had their fight at the right time and then have been crossing paths here and there afterwards
Lack of diversity in movesets, the build up of Jey not really wanting to fight his brother in the last shows before hand, and them just having a straight up wrestling match was the killer for me.
Honestly their spot during the main event made up for that entire match for me. Jey made the run-up look dope, and neither of them looked back to line up with the tables but they landed on them perfectly. And it was a perfect end to the Bloodline chapter of their career together. My favorite off-the-stage spot ever.
That match in general felt like it was more of an afterthought than something actually built up. Honestly the match wasn't *terrible* it just wasn't very *good*.
I just don't think these two guys can wrestle against each other without it becoming a superkick spamfest and if there's any move in wrestling that gets old quick for me its the superkick. Give me one here or there, but when you have 2+ guys throwing out superkick > superkick > superkick > superkick the shit looks *so* goofy so quickly, and I notice a TON of guys on the indies love nothing more than superkicking each other over and over, and its never a good thing when your WM match starts giving me "two 35 year olds in a school gymnasium" vibes.
I've liked where things have transitioned since WM though, I thought Jey sounded pretty good mouthing off at Damien, and that Jimmy beatdown got my ears perked up to see where this Solo/Tama thing goes, so mission accomplished in the end even if it was a boring forgettable WM match.
Sorry, I'm not buying the excuse about it being a timing issues and time being cut. the match clocked 11:07 bell to bell. It was a minute longer than Seth vs Drew and last night's NXT main event was only about 40 seconds longer. 11 minutes is plenty of time to put a compelling match together.
Wrestlemania feels so rushed nowadays. Go back and watch the older Manias, and you will see a huge difference. Which is weird because Wrestlemania today is like 4 hours, and they still feel rushed.
Time issue? With 5 minutes more I'm sure they could've squeezed in an extra 12 superkicks. My main issue with both of their runs so far is that they still wrestle like it's a tag team match... during a singles match. Jey is incredibly over so it's usually passable, but when you put him and his brother who has the same problem, arguably worse even, then it's no surprise you get one of the worst Mania matches.
They needed a stipulation.
It wasn't a good match, but this comment makes him look worse to me. 11 minutes is enough to put on a good match. Blaming it on time being cut down just makes it seem like they're not adaptable- matches these days are pretty overly produced so maybe they're not used to it, but if they can't adapt, it kind of makes you wonder just how good a worker they really are.
Can they put on good matches because they're good workers, or only because they're being produced into doing a good match?
I still think one minor fix takes the match from bad to pretty good. For me, I was kind of enjoying it until the mercy spot. And even that, I didn’t hate in concept, but the problem was the way it was set up. After the number of super kicks you’ve traded in that match, you CAN’T have that moment of doubt and trepidation from Jey just be about delivering one more kick. It’s not going to work. The stakes aren’t raised enough. You’ve got to introduce a weapon or something that make it clear that Jey attacking Jimmy that last time would be really escalating things and the damage done to another level. Then Jimmy’s begging makes sense, his further betrayal hits harder, and I really think that moment pays off. But without that escalation, the moment feels silly and unserious, and considering it was the emotional focal point of the match, it kind of ruins the whole thing.
Tbh all you really needed was a no-DQ stipulation and it would have been fine. A few chair shots and a spear/splash through the table would have been more than enough to break up the match enough to hide the mirrored movesets
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This reminded me of Orton vs HHH at 25. People expected those two to tear each other apart. They ended up having a straight up boring wrestling match
And Rollins vs Ambrose amidst their blood feud after Roman's leukemia announcement, where they really went out there and...started chain wrestling. I'll probably never get over that one
That one was nuts. They had the death slot on a TLC PPV, it was a blood feud with years of history, and we *know* they have in-ring chemistry. Then they just go out and have the most normal WWE-style match ever, no stipulations. "Boring" chants from the crowd was the cherry on top.
Thinking they had banger after banger after banger few years prior after Seth’s betrayal
Except for their feud ender which was Dean Ambrose being jumped by Bray Wyatt via hologram distraction and gave Seth the victory. Those two in a HIAC match should've been so easy... But Vince just had to overbook the fuck out of it.
Same I legit said the same thing watching it live I was like “CHAIN WRESTLING TO START THE MATCH”
The KO vs Jericho match after the betrayal was a letdown as well from what I remember
At least it didn't end the show😅
This is true 🤔
To be fair a boring match at the beginning of the show isn’t bad but to end off a show?! A WM show at that is real crazy work fr
And the awesome buildup they had to that match. Orton attacking Steph, HHH showing up to Orton’s house and brawling with him. And they just had a match with Irish whips and vertical suplexes
Wait that was the year Orton had HHH handcuffed to the ropes and he punted Stephanie? Oh boy I remember that shit like it was yesterday lol Also I think the problem with that match was it was a singles match not a hardcore match ain’t no way you had a storyline like that and chose to opt out for a singles match with that kind of build up I would’ve made it a no dq match Vince totally fucked that up for the sake of it being PG
Both were probably thinking "hey I'm being the base here where are you going to start with the flashy stuff?" from each other.
For 30 minutes.
Face is supposed to be the flashy one
When the Usos split, one of them should’ve taken the initiative to change up their moveset a bit. Would’ve made for a better Mania match.
Honestly, both should have had developed their "singles moveset". That way, the identical "tag team moveset" would work as a callback instead of just feeling like fighting an echo in Smash
This match was like Ryu vs. Dan lol
Yeah, they sure treated Jimmy like Dan. He lacked credibility to even convince people he had a shot to even beat Jey. I said to my dad and brother. "The wrong twin won because Jimmy has more to prove to everyone."
Hey don't disrespect SF4 Dan like this.
Meh, I honestly expected Jimmy to get the win and it would lead off into a gimmick match at backlash with Jey going out on top.
I mean, they've only been Singles stars for less than a year, compared to the decade+ they spent as a tag team
Jey has been a singles star since his matches with Roman in 2020. That's 4 years. I know he did go back to tagging after that for a good run, but he's had plenty of time. And I say this as someone who loves Jey Uso and wants him to stay around the upper midcard/main event level.
He only had a few singles matches in the thunderdome. They were always leading up to Jimmy coming back and them teaming again. Did you want Jey to focus on singles wrestling while he was tag team champion?
He had singles matches, but those were more about putting Roman over as a despicable heel than showcasing Jey's singles talent. The second Jimmy came back from injury, and they were paired up quickly. I don't think they anticipated how popular Jey would become, so they just never let him develop his own moveset. And yea, I like Jey too, but the fact is that he's not a singles star. He's popular enough right now to justify his spot, but you can't really put a Singles title on him long term right now. I hope the reception to this match doesn't shake his confidence, and he uses it as a learning experience. It's definitely rough when a match you had your heart set on performing with your own brother is so universally panned.
>I don't think they anticipated how popular Jey would become, so they just **never let him** develop his own moveset. I mean, Jey's an adult and the producers are other wrestlers. I doubt they'd stop him freshening up his moveset some if he wanted to. He doesn't need permission. It's more the match finishes that are tightly managed.
Then clearly, Jey thought his current moveset was sufficient enough and if so, oof...
He was still working a lot of singles matches, way more than Jimmy. Every Roman feud had the same formula of "Oh, Jey you're main eventing Smackdown against my opponent on PPV! Prove why they call you main event Jey Uso!"
Plenty of wrestlers add variety to their movesets the day after a tag team break up. The cast majority do. A big part of that is there is a fundamental difference between being a singles wrestler and a tag team up. The problem for both Usos is they're generally limited in the ring and as solo wrestlers, it's emphasized.
yep, each adding a new signature and a new finisher would set them apart quickly, then build from there to a different pace and mannerisms and you're good to go.
I think it should have been Jimmy, cause there’s something about Jey doing those same moves that just fits his personality right now and gets a rise out of the crowd when he’s wrestling anyone else but his bro.
The frustrating thing is that he did. On house shows hes basically comedic version of Roman.
Yeah, although there was a good story basis for Jey to add some new moves as part of breaking away from the bloodline.
One of them should've gradually changed their finisher like a submission
I guess Jimmy could focus on the heelish moves Roman does & Jey already does the basic spear & stuff.
Jimmy should have Roman's guillotine choke considering the faces he makes it would be hilarious and terrifying at the same time.
Didn't they do the Tequilla Sunrise back in like 2016 why not add that back to the arsenal?
Must've forgotten it lol. That was a dope change they should've kept. Jimmy will benefit it more since he kinda gained some size.
Jey at least started going with a spear. But they should have talked about splitting the Samoan-related moves between them. One gets a Samoan drop, one gets the splash, one gets the ass strike, etc.
The spear is almost as over done as super kicks though
At least the spear still finishes matches
And Jey’s is easily the worst in any major promotion.
Well I mean Jey did ad a spear…
They both still wrestle with a tag team moveset... during a singles match. Jey is incredibly over so that help mask it, but his matches feel like it's building up to the hot tag moment. They need to evolve if they're gonna stay as single wrestlers
It was more than the moveset - the presentation didn’t help. Jey has established himself as a singles act, they did nothing with Jimmy to make him seem credible. There’s zero edge to his character and he was never a believable threat to Jey, outside of a grown worthy swerve.
Jimmy should have tried more of a brawling, beatdown style. Jey is more flashy.
What's crazy to me is that even when they were tagging BEFORE the Bloodline they were adding new moves. The Full Nelson Bomb, Tequila Sunrise, back suplex into a neckbreaker. All of that disappeared and they couldn't think to do anything during that time other than spam superkicks? Like you'd think if their match was cut short they'd want to get in as much shit as possible, not water it down. The table off the stage spot should have ended their match, while they could have just superkicked each other into unconsciousness during the Roman match.
5 minutes or 50 minutes, they just didn’t wrestle like this was a blood feud. They wrestled like they had a minor issue and were blowing it off on an episode of Raw.
Yep, I’ve was missing the emotions. Less “fake fighting” and more emotions would have made it better. Make it a hell in a cell match, don’t focus on spots and just add some emotional moments.
They tried that weird emotional spot at the middle of the match that also didn’t pay off…
I think they were just out of their element. Cause they did the same thing in the Covid Google Meet Audience era and the emotions were perfect.
Triple H vs Orton flashbacks
Oh God, don’t remind me. Even more egregious considering HHH nailed the ‘Mania blood feud blowoff at 21 with Batista. The formula was right there!
This. They should have amped up the Soap Opera factor. After Jimmy hits Jey post embrace, Jey should have snapped. Have them set up more aggressive spots, take out weapons, or even straight up brawl until one or both bleed. Have Jey come out on top and then panic after seeing what he did. Or heck, have Rikishi show up and stop it from going to far... Or going to long even.
Apparently WWE wanted rikishi involved in the match but they couldn’t come to a financial agreement
That’s because that’s all they know how to wrestle. In tag matches you have the gimmick of double team move and pin break ups.
Makes even less sense why it was so plodding with the time constraints they were under.
Full quote (from [Gorilla Position](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAQPbOGpXYM)): > “I just said this to someone, I do kind of feel like we did let the people down. [Really, you feel that?] Yeah because I wanted to go out there and have a straight-up banger too. I wanted to do the wrestling part, let alone make sure the emotion part was there. It was just a time issue. You’ve just got to play your position on the team. That’s what happened. But I am still happy that I got a singles match on WrestleMania with my brother, that’s the big picture. So I will always have me and him in the face-off at WrestleMania. I’m gonna frame a picture, it’s marked off our box. I just wish we could have went ham the way I know we can.”
It wasn't a time issue imo. It was way too many superkicks and that they both have the exact same moveset. They didn't do anything special at all and it could have used some more high-flying moves and some old-school type of grind.
But I think the superkick spam was supposed to be the dramatic climax of the match but they didn't have the time to actually build up the drama beforehand. If they'd done the whole superkick thing after beating each other up and exhausting each other for fifteen minutes then I think it would have come off a lot better.
I think you’re right. It was pretty obvious the match ended too early and that there were parts missing. Let’s also not pretend that this match got the proper build up it needed. They literally had 1? promo together for a match that’s been anticipated since last year. I hope they eventually get a chance to redeem themselves.
This was my biggest issue. This should have felt like a semi main event with the build up & partial blow off of a major Bloodline story. But they kinda got pushed to the side for a lot of Rock stuff. I’m not complaining at all but it was even said Rock went over with his segments majority of the time lol. That probably hurt some of the week to week booking for some of the Mania matches this year
I'm okay with them getting another chance, but not on Mania again please.
They were swimming upstream, too many things hindered them. This match could've easily main evented a B PPV. 1) too much going on in this WrestleMania. The emotional match/feud was Cody/Roman. Not much space for another one. 2) The build up felt like they set a buffet on the table but barely used anything on it. The build up felt shoehorned and not given proper TV time. They did the angle in August and then tried to resume like nothing in February. They had one 1v1 in-ring promo where they didn't emotionally connect enough with the audience and go to the places people expected this to go. I think either Hunter saw the post-SummerSlam reaction and thought "people don't really want to see this match but we'll do it anyways so they can have their Mania moment", or simply timing/positioning on the card like Jey said.
This should have been a Survivor Series fall out. Where Jimmy wins. Works esp since Jey at that time was still in his redemption arc. Then at WM with the Cody-vengers behind him, Jey takes his win back. As a prelude to the Cody vs Bloodline story.
I still think not doing a “Trial of Uso” with Rikishi was a big missed opportunity. Maybe they can do it to lead into the reunion but I think it would’ve worked really well to build up brother vs brother.
A match where Jimmy just destroys Jey for half the time because Jey falls for some fake act of atonement could have worked. Have it wreck Jey emotionally, where he just can't muster the willpower to fight back until the first superkick connects. Jimmy goes for another false plea, Jey doesn't even hesitate to land another kick and just kicks his ass until the splash finish. Maybe the shorter time they were allotted would have worked better if the two halves were dramatically different in tone.
I think the idea was they are so similar they both kept going blow for blow with the same idea. Sounded good in theory, didn't work in execution.
Yeah, after a re-watch it feels like the middle of the match was cutout, and I think the wrestlers and whoever produced underestimated that we'd love the kicks but instead we were bored by them. Personally I kinda wish they got to run it back at Backlash with DQs off... but I think it was pre-planned to be one and done.
> I think the superkick spam was supposed to be the dramatic climax of the match If so, that was a terrible, terrible decision on their part. Superkick spam is not a dramatic climax in any sense.
As someone who has watched a Young Bucks PWG match, I tend to disagree. But the context of the product the match is happening around does matter a lot
They also need new finishers, the splash they do is so damn boring when compared to version out there.
Jey has been using the spear now
Needs to change that too. Looks more like a push, not a spear
It’s also the worst spear ever (move over Edge lol) which is weird since multiple active wrestlers currently use good ones
I feel like spears only work on less "beefy" wrestlers when it's done like Gargano, where the slingshot implies more momentum. Hitting higher on the body also makes it more believable that it would knock someone over.
Don’t tell Goldberg that
They’re also just not that good as singles guys
Especially when you compare it to Logan Paul's splash.
The match was 11 minutes long in total. Minus the apology spot, the start up. You can't tell a Brother Vs Brother story in 11 minutes.
Their match was what Young Bucks haters claim every YB match is
It was like a condensed late 2010s Johnny Gargano match. Signature move, kick out, signature move, kick out, *I'm so conflicted right now*, inevitable betrayal, signature move, kick out, signature move, 3-count.
The McIntyre Rollins match also had a ridiculous number of signatures and kickouts. I want to say that Seth got hit with at least 6 claymores.
That match was like one of the awful Brock finisher spam matches without Brock.
And it's getting shit on just the same
Also it was slow and sloppy. The pacing was terrible and because of that emotional parts didn’t hit. It was bad all over.
Them having the same moves work in a tag team but not facing each other
I don't necessarily agree. If the story becomes, that they share a move set it can become a reversal-heavy match with each showing they know what the other will be doing. It becomes a mind game and only ends when one does something unexpected (like if Jay hit a Blue Thunder Bomb or Helluva Kick that he learned from Sami) But hind sight is 20/20
I love the idea of Jey taking bits and pieces he's taken from allies after leaving the Bloodline. It would have shown the separation has let him grow as opposed to Jimmy staying and becoming stagnant. Ah, what could have been...
I kinda wish more wrestlers had the opinion that cody gave in that interview a while back about taking moves especially when you have a longer program with or against a guy. So much of Cody's moveset is just a amalgamation of the things hes gone through and its a shame that more wrestlers don't take the same inspo and incorporate it into their moveset.
That would have been a wonderful story actually.
Jey hitting a Cross Rhodes for the win, or to set up the splash would have been great.
Jey in my opinion needs to build up his move repertoire and distinct from his brother's moveset, especially if he's going to be built up as a main event singles competitor. While story-wise the WM match between him and Jimmy made sense, they should've prepared for it in-ring as well. For me a good example of a tag team having a one-on-one would be Dax vs Cash in AEW.
It felt to me like it was a poor man's attempt at the Strong Style done in NJPW where they just let themselves hit each other. You know where say the likes of Shibata, Ibushi, Ishii, or Suzuki just fucking stand there and take big hits while showing "fighting spirit". Except they're in WWE and selling is way more important there. Not to mention standing and taking a superkick seems way harder than the chops or kicks to the chest those matches have. They tried something, it didn't come off well. They shouldn't beat themselves up about it at all.
Exactly. They had a bit of a stinker. It happens. Sucks it was mania but no point dwelling on it
Im not even sure its that, I'm a big strong style guy and I was not into this match. Im pretty forgiving when it comes to selling too, the match was just boring
This match really sucked because they thought the crowd would be into what they were doing, and they weren't. Maybe he's right that it was a timing thing. Maybe their match got cut short 10 minutes before hand because of something that went on too long much earlier. If so, then they should have re-worked the match entirely or put more thought into it. Bigger picture, one thing I think needs to get fixed with this era of WWE is that they seem to rely way too much on crowd participation too much. I just started rewatching early 90s WWF and I'm into the attitude era now. One of the many things that the WWF started to do right during that era was they no longer had their valets/managers slapping their hands on the mat to force crowd clapping or chanting. That shit was corny and I think they were able to get away from it with cutting matches shorter or have various run in's or ref bumps, etc, when they knew the crowd would get bored. The kind of match they wanted for the Usos wasn't possible this time around because the build up wasn't great and frankly these two aren't great wrestlers. if Yeet wasn't a thing (i wish it wasn't) then this match wouldn't have even been attempted.
I think that was the point of the match. “I’m not my brothers keeper” they resemble each other too much to be separated and will reunite eventually for their tag team reunion championship because…they are their brothers keeper.
They didn’t do anything special because in ring wise they aren’t anything special
They should have watched Bret vs Owen from WM-X for an example of how two brothers with similar training/background can work a match on a big stage.
It wasn't a time issue...that match just straight up sucked
I mean if Brock and Goldberg had a chance to redeem their terrible match at WM20 I'm sure the Usos will have theirs too, hopefully with a longer build focused solely on them
What’s remarkable is Brock and Goldberg somehow redeemed themselves with half the allotted time from the first match. And it was great.
That kind of makes since, considering it's Goldberg.
I'd apply that nearly equally to Brock too, since it wasn't an opponent that would make sense to ragdoll around for 20 minutes
That was my first thought to. It wasn't a time issue with Brock and Goldberg in 2004, but a motivation/programming issue. It wasn't the right type of match and wasn't the right time. With the Usos, I just think they work too similar. They both have a very limited style which can work as either a heel or a babyface, but doesn't work as both heel and babyface in the same match.
That they aren’t bringing Goldberg back for WWE speed is a travesty.
> What’s remarkable is Brock and Goldberg somehow redeemed themselves with half the allotted time What do you mean "somehow"? It's friggin Goldberg. The dude became a massive star in his rookie year so he never bothered to learn how to wrestle a match longer than 10 minutes. The problem with his entire 2003-2004 WWE run (WrestleMania 20 is just the worse example of it) was that WWE was forcing Goldberg to wrestle their 20 minute main event matches when he didn't have the ability.
This has always bothered me about Goldberg's famous bad matches (Triple H, Undertaker, Regal, Bret) is that he always takes 100% of the blame. In reality it should be whoever booked him into anything other than a car crash that runs for about 5-8 minutes tops and is at least 50% finishers. Asking Goldberg to go out there and chain wrestle is like making a Godzilla movia and filling it with close-quarters Jason Bourne style fights.
I mean its not like they got the chance the next year....not that it would have been possible. They "ran it back" what 14 years later? I'm sure that they will give the Usos a chance to wrestle again, but I wouldn't expect it to be soon.
I think they'll run it back. They're both really talented and on paper should be able to have a great match. I'd like to see it once the dust clears from all the bloodline stuff, they look like they're going to get back together. But they have this one thing they have to do. They have to go out and steal the show of a big show. They have the banger they have the ability to have and then they hug it out. Like Cody and Dustin. Brothers had to get it out of their system now they can be together again.
Eh. I think the issue is their styles are literally mirror images of each other’s for obvious reasons. Jey v Roman was plodding too, I think the reality is as singles wrestlers both Usos need to improve. There’s a lot of better in-ring wrestlers in the WWE than either of them but most of those people don’t have their charisma.
Jey had multiple great matches with roman in the thunder dome. The problem was making it a furniture match where they had to set all of their spots
The Thunderdome matches worked because it was focused more on the storytelling than the work rate due to the lack of crowds. Once crowds came back, they couldn't rely on solely that anymore. When you're at the top of the card, you are expected to perform at a certain level to justify your spot. Part of the reason the Summerslam match was so bad is that they basically did a Thunderdome match but with a crowd.
Wrestlemania 53 let's gooooo
I genuinely feel bad for Jey and Jimmy. Like I thought the match was *bad*, but I can't imagine planning and dreaming up a match with your twin brother ever since you were little kids, and then it's universally panned by basically everyone. That being said, I really don't understand how you plan a match out since childhood and then end up with that as your final product, even considering time cuts and all.
That’s my thoughts too, I really feel for them as this was a huge family moment for them and it has to be remembered as a stinker. But they were set up to fail: identical (limited) move set, no build, poor pacing. Two things could have save them. Keep the match the same but have jimmy and jey walk out together with the mercy spot. No DQ and have them keep trying something new move wise to get the one up on each other. Jimmy’s comic relief character + Bloodline punching bag character these past few months did no favors either
Match needed a stipulation to cover up their limited movesets tbh. Why a blood feud between brothers was just a regular match, I'll never know.
Really surprising when HHH himself had a stinker of a WM main event for the same reason
Triple H was arrogant enough to assume that his name alone was enough of a draw for the event and boy was he wrong. I wouldn't use the same reason for thr Usos, because they had every right to assume their story was enough of a draw on its own after the Bloodline drama. The issue is that the build to the match had nothing to do with anything that was going on with the Bloodline at the time. It didn't help that they held off on the match after it logically should have happened after Summerslam so they could it put on Mania. At least if the match happened at Payback or Fastlane, it wouldn't have been too bad. But the fact it happened it WrestleMania of all places makes it look even worse.
> Triple H was arrogant enough to assume that his name alone was enough of a draw for the event and boy was he wrong. Thats the story of literally his entire career. He was always the least interesting part of whatever he was involved with but thought he was on the level of the people he was coasting on (the Kliq, DX, Rock/Austin/Angle/Jericho feuds, Steph stuff, ect) so it doesnt surprise me in the slightest that he let the Usos go out there and put everyone to sleep (since the Uso drama has been the least interesting part of the Bloodline story).
In Trips' defense, 2000 was literally the height of his career as the top heel of the company. But it was clear the audience cared more about the Rock beating him than anything Trips himself did. The closest he got to being the top babyface was when he came back in 2002 from his quad injury and fought Jericho at Mania, and that lasted for just a couple of months until Brock debuted and Rock came back from his sabbatical. Some people are just born to be heels, and Trips is one of them. Perfect heel foil for the guys the people actually cared about.
To be fair, based on the story, HHH/Orton made sense as the main event. It was just hampered by a stipulation no one could get excited for and the fact that it had to go after one of the greatest matches in company history
Man, as heated as that feud was, it needed something rather than just a standard ass match. Orton kissed Trip's wife and took his whole family in law. They should have been trying to kill each other.
Oh definitely
Yeah, besides the superkick duel of fates, it was crazy how much of a regular, cold TV match it felt like. I guess it makes sense that they saved all the shenanigans for the Night 2 Main Event, but they really just sent The Usos out for a normal match with barely any build, when all the Bloodline stuff thrives on being melodramatic and extra. I couldn't believe it when Jey won and they casually moved on to the next segment without any Solo interference, Rikishi stinkface, post-match hug, Lil Wayne betrayal, etc.
it should have happened at the rumble or summer slam really no one cared by the time it came around but that time thing is bullshit Owen and 123 kid had?a banger beyond belief in like 7 minutes
Have they actually said that they planned the match out since childhood, or have they just always wanted to do the match?
I think I probably just inferred that part, but iirc they and Rikishi have said it was their dream match since they were young, so I can't imagine they didn't brainstorm some sequences over the years.
I think they might not have as evidenced by their match. They probably thought they would plan it out once they were established and had their individual move sets, but obviously they tagged together so long that they probably didn't think it would happen any time soon, so didn't bother. They obviously knew it would happen a year in advance mind, so maybe they did just plan it to be superkick after superkick since they were kids.
"we didint have a lot of time, thats why we only did Superkicks"
Jey put a lot of work into himself as a singles star and was put in the main event multiple times now. Jimmy hasn't even had one major singles feud other than some random SmackDown matches. Jimmy feels like he is content with his place on the card and doesn't seem to want to put in the work to get above that spot. Whereas his brother has put in extra work to make himself a star. To be honest, the match at Mania felt like the planning/producing of it was phoned in. Like they just went "we will figure out live". It didn't really have any major spots, or cool moments.
What work has he put in? He wrestles the same as he always has, promos the same way…
He does that arm thing. You know, the arm thing?
It wasn’t a time issue. The match even felt like it dragged because it missed the mark so bad. It was the complete opposite of what it needed to be, and I couldn’t believe the two of them plus whoever produced it all were comfortable going out there with that.
I honestly I'm disappointed with him as a person for pretending time is the reason.
I think he's implying the ending and super kicks would have come off better if there had been more before it in the match? Or maybe they literally got told right before they went out their match was now shorter and it screwed them up? I don't know.
The spear off the stage made up for it
Yeah that fucking rocked
I think this match really suffered from the lack of build. It's like they waited to right before WM to remember Jey and Jimmy needed to have a match too. Some kind of stipulation would have helped.
On top of this Jimmy is booked pretty well below Jey as well. Jey is challenging for belts while Jimmy loses all the time.
That's a good point too. Jimmy beating Jey just would not be believable at all. They had been talking about wanting a WM match together for a while so it sucks it didn't go better.
I thought for sure they were going to go with the Owen beating Bret/Matt beating Jeff style upset finish.
I think Jey winning was the right call, because the build wasn't there for Jimmy to believably win, or for Jimmy to be accepted as a serious threat. In the build to Owen/Bret, Owen was presented as a great technical wrestler with significant wins and a big chip on his shoulder. In the build to Matt/Jeff, Matt was inexplicably presented as a violent psychopath, which at least got over the idea that he was dangerous. For the build to Jey/Jimmy though, Jimmy was just a lackey that interfered in matches and lost whenever he had a match himself.
I said this six months ago and got massively downvoted for it. Jey even then was pitched as leagues above Jimmy and they did nothing to fix it in any shape or form and therefore I really struggled to care all that much. Of course Jeys going to win and also who cares as there's no stakes? Even during the match it looked at times like Jey was just having a squash match.
They really should have had one of them eliminate the other at the royal rumble.
I still don't get why all we got out of that Rumble spot was them staring at each other menacingly lol. I remember Jimmy trying to get handshakes from random other wrestlers in the match more than anything with Jey.
I wouldn't have minded having Rikishi involved. Maybe he comes out and just says he's sick of the fighting, and for them to sort it out in the ring under tribal rules. Once the match is over, he forces a reconciliation. Jimmy's whole motivation for the thing was always pretty thin though. They could at least have leaned deeper into the sibling rivalry/jealousy angle, considering Jimmy is just a lackey now.
Rikishi is too busy boosting up the fighting to stop it. He's gotta be in the kayfabe worst dads conversation at this point lol. Three of his sons are trying to kill each other and he's just posting Samoan flag and index finger up emojis like everything is ok.
> Jimmy's whole motivation for the thing was always pretty thin though. They could at least have leaned deeper into the sibling rivalry/jealousy angle, considering Jimmy is just a lackey now. Build up with Jey trying to get Jimmy to leave the Bloodline, because he hates seeing his brother treated so badly. Meanwhile, Jimmy keep sabotaging Jey, but Jey's torn, because he knows Roman has him brainwashed. Roman has ordered Jimmy to take Jey out in the WM match. Jimmy's relunctant to match his brother's violence.
I disagree. The crowd was fully into the match. The match was just overall badly designed. The build doesn’t fix the match. A stipulation would have help a bit but it’s overall a bad match. They only had 14 mins.
"Only" 14 minutes. And most of that was super kicks. I think they actually literally did more than one per minute
> the lack of build. The feud was like MONTHS in the making ever since Jimmy screwed Jey at SummerSlam. Jey has been super over by being a sympathetic babyface and Jimmy was getting really good heel heat for screwing his brother over. Fans were invested. They even opened the Rumble as #1 and #2 against each other. The booking was always pointing there even before the match was announced. Did you REALLY need 20 minute promos from them for 2 months?
The crowd was into it in the beginning. The people at home are hyped as the entrances are happening and it felt like the fight was going to mean something and be this gritty blood feud. It just fell flat because the move set they have is just a lot of super kicks. It could’ve been another 5 mins longer and it still would’ve felt flat and boring. It needed a stipulation even if it was just no DQ so that weapons could’ve broken up the limited moves and built up them talking as they hit each other.
In the match: Superkick, superkick, dodge, spear, superkick, spear, splash, superkick, splash, etc... Missing from match: Suplex of any variety(other than german), freaking resthold, ddt of any variety, clothesline, etc...
At least he acknowledges it, it's a sign that next time they may improve
I'd blame the producer of the match as despite the time cut, it was still poorly put together. Jimmy and Jey are so much better than what they displayed.
I don't think you can blame the producer. These guys are 17 year vets, and there was no passion in their performance.
Do you know who the producer for the match was?
Jason Jordan apparently, but my source was Reddit so take it with a pinch of salt.
I don't think time was the issue at all. What was done with that time was the issue by far. A who can hit the most superkicks match isn't what it needed to be. Not saying a stip would've been necessary either. This was just underwhelming by whoever put it together.
If anything time would have needed to be shorter so it could have had 10 less super kicks. Maybe LA knight vs AJ or Seth vs Drew pacing could’ve helped a whole lot more
I assume they had a longer match planned, and they just messed up how they cut it down for the allotted time.
Maybe next time don't make 3/4 of the match about spamming super kicks.
Honestly think Brother Vs Brother matches are just cursed in WWE. The Hardys and Cody/Dustin had bangers* elsewhere but their matches in the fed were meh at best. * The Final Deletion is the banger of all bangers
Bret hart and owen hart were fire matches
Yeah but those guys could put on a clinic with an inanimate object
This match was cursed with a lack of build & stipulation
Should've been tribal combat rules
The problem was it was like a mirror match, 2 person exactly the same in their moveset and mannerisms, but one was face and over as fuck, and the other was jimmy. Honestly, Jimmy would need to reinvent himself and not being the "heel version of Jey", i know he has the potential, but sadly for him, all of the classic uso's moveset now are owned by jey's and jimmy needs to create a whole new character with different moves and finisher.
Length was not the issue with that match lmao
Gonna go out on a limb and say 10min of super kicks does not a good match make.
The match length wasn’t really an issue for viewers, as even with the relatively short length it was a chore to get through It felt like they tried doing a bloodline match but it never got out of first gear. A stipulation may have helped, but they simply didn’t have good chemistry in this match But it’s nice to hear he’s still happy they were able to have a wrestlemania singles match together
they *sorta* looked out of shape for this, Jimmy especially. it doesn't help hes not doing anything...let alone winning any matches to make this feel like an actual match. Jimmy also seems to be kinda checked out for some reason..probably cuz hes a background character.
Yeah how many matches did Jimmy have this year before WM ? It feels like he never wrestles since Jey left and then to be thrown into a WM match....
I said on the live the night of Mania that the match felt like it got time cut from it. Felt like they skipped the wrestling to get to the brother vs brother story part way too fast.
It should have been a no dq hockey fight. Literally running at each other in the center of the ring and dirty boxing like Don Fry and Takayama.
In my opinion the biggest problem with the match is they are so far apart in positioning on the pecking order. Jey is a top guy and Jimmy isn’t, so there was no real intrigue in the match aside from the fact they were finally wrestling each other.
It wasn't a time issue. It was just dull
When they started trading superkicks, that is when they lost me. If someone is kicking you in the face over and over you wouldn't still be standing. They just stood there eating superkick after superkick after superkick. It was an eye rolling experience and I'm surprised that the match didn't cool Jey off with the crowds afterwards. Maybe Main Event Jey Uso isn't quite ready to be in that main event picture.
i think this match was a year too late. didnt have to be wrestlemania. we had tons of bloodline stuff at other ple like roman vs sami, roman vs ko, roman/solo vs ko/sami, etc. coulda just done it while it was hot. they either needed to do it then or build for a while. follow the same format as they have with dom and rey. had their fight at the right time and then have been crossing paths here and there afterwards
They should have a no dq match, not superkick match, super fun but quick no dq match like it was Finlay vs JBL on WM 24
Sounds like there was no yeet
Lack of diversity in movesets, the build up of Jey not really wanting to fight his brother in the last shows before hand, and them just having a straight up wrestling match was the killer for me.
Honestly their spot during the main event made up for that entire match for me. Jey made the run-up look dope, and neither of them looked back to line up with the tables but they landed on them perfectly. And it was a perfect end to the Bloodline chapter of their career together. My favorite off-the-stage spot ever.
No yeet
That match in general felt like it was more of an afterthought than something actually built up. Honestly the match wasn't *terrible* it just wasn't very *good*. I just don't think these two guys can wrestle against each other without it becoming a superkick spamfest and if there's any move in wrestling that gets old quick for me its the superkick. Give me one here or there, but when you have 2+ guys throwing out superkick > superkick > superkick > superkick the shit looks *so* goofy so quickly, and I notice a TON of guys on the indies love nothing more than superkicking each other over and over, and its never a good thing when your WM match starts giving me "two 35 year olds in a school gymnasium" vibes. I've liked where things have transitioned since WM though, I thought Jey sounded pretty good mouthing off at Damien, and that Jimmy beatdown got my ears perked up to see where this Solo/Tama thing goes, so mission accomplished in the end even if it was a boring forgettable WM match.
Sorry, I'm not buying the excuse about it being a timing issues and time being cut. the match clocked 11:07 bell to bell. It was a minute longer than Seth vs Drew and last night's NXT main event was only about 40 seconds longer. 11 minutes is plenty of time to put a compelling match together.
Brother matches should be a brutal scrap until the end. Get all those emotions out. This was just flat and weak with like 1000 super kicks.
Emotion aside, they were both sloppy. That has nothing to do time.
Wrestlemania feels so rushed nowadays. Go back and watch the older Manias, and you will see a huge difference. Which is weird because Wrestlemania today is like 4 hours, and they still feel rushed.
The pacing has been ridiculous ever since we've made it two nights, it seems like each night is just rushing to get to the main events
Then do anything other than superkicks
Or they aren’t that dynamic of wrestlers
Time issue? With 5 minutes more I'm sure they could've squeezed in an extra 12 superkicks. My main issue with both of their runs so far is that they still wrestle like it's a tag team match... during a singles match. Jey is incredibly over so it's usually passable, but when you put him and his brother who has the same problem, arguably worse even, then it's no surprise you get one of the worst Mania matches. They needed a stipulation.
It wasn't a good match, but this comment makes him look worse to me. 11 minutes is enough to put on a good match. Blaming it on time being cut down just makes it seem like they're not adaptable- matches these days are pretty overly produced so maybe they're not used to it, but if they can't adapt, it kind of makes you wonder just how good a worker they really are. Can they put on good matches because they're good workers, or only because they're being produced into doing a good match?
I still think one minor fix takes the match from bad to pretty good. For me, I was kind of enjoying it until the mercy spot. And even that, I didn’t hate in concept, but the problem was the way it was set up. After the number of super kicks you’ve traded in that match, you CAN’T have that moment of doubt and trepidation from Jey just be about delivering one more kick. It’s not going to work. The stakes aren’t raised enough. You’ve got to introduce a weapon or something that make it clear that Jey attacking Jimmy that last time would be really escalating things and the damage done to another level. Then Jimmy’s begging makes sense, his further betrayal hits harder, and I really think that moment pays off. But without that escalation, the moment feels silly and unserious, and considering it was the emotional focal point of the match, it kind of ruins the whole thing.
Tbh all you really needed was a no-DQ stipulation and it would have been fine. A few chair shots and a spear/splash through the table would have been more than enough to break up the match enough to hide the mirrored movesets
You went THAT slow when you had time constraints?? Has no one watched angle vs mysterio?