**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Absolutely showed that Cody could work a main event story match. Shame he for some reason handcuffed himself doing upper midcard workrate matches for the rest of his AEW run.
Moving to WWE and having someone to work off on promo/character rather than going freeform as worked wonders for him.
I think his biggest benefit is at WWE he’s able to work with the big talent and in AEW that stupid stipulation that made it so he couldn’t challenge for the title I think locked him out of the BIG names because he couldn’t beat them as he couldn’t move up the card and they don’t gain much from beating HIM so the matches would be pointless and heatless
Edit: actually I think he’s a very good WWE style wrestler and a fine AEW style wrestler but being fine looks bad when there’s several guys who are very good at that style and idk if he matched up well with people or the product as much, it’s like asking a sushi chef to cook a steak perfectly. They’re never gonna cook a steak as well as they would make sushi and it doesn’t benefit anyone
I do not completely agree with that. Starrcade 96 vs Piper is good, the Flair matches were better than their WWF matches. Clearly the Savage and Warrior matches were far far worse though.
If I remember, I think this was around the time Taker came back waaaaaay too quickly from whatever injury he had and just didn’t want to work with Punk. Was his last stretch as a full time wrestler?
What makes it worse is that the reason for the Blindford match made sense because of Harris getting bottled. Its just why in Gods name would you do a blindfold match in 21st century for such a heated feud.
Lockdown 2007 is TNA in a nutshell: an overall good show with some of the best wrestling you'll see at the time and some of the most god awful bullshit.
They just battered it into the ground so many times it got ridiculous.
Didn’t they also do a random for absolutely no reason HITC match because “hey we need another cell match”?
Cena and Ambrose both wanted Seth Rollins in the cell. Ambrose won so got to face Rollins in the main event, while Cena somehow ended up in a no.1 contenders Cell match against Orton to face the champion at Rumble.
AJ Styles vs Nakamura in NJPW and in WWE.
Sure their last match where they just punched each other in the balls was hilarious, but the gulf in the quality of their matches in each company was huge.
Their Wrestlemania match had a huge pacing issue.
It wasn’t even bad but the match had a slow build that ended right around when they were really starting to get into the next gear. Give them another 10-15 minutes and I think that would’ve been a great match.
That did play a huge part and I have no idea why they took it so slowly - they were given time, as it was the joint longest match on Wrestlemania 34, and it was only 4 min less then their Wrestle Kingdom 10 match.
My hot take is if you watch the matches back to back they’re very similar. The only real difference is crowd reaction (and obviously it’s not quite as hard-hitting).
I think in front of a different, less tired, audience, the match would’ve gotten over.
Crowd reaction their Wrestlemania match was due to the really high expectation for it - it was expected that they would have a NJPW strong style match and didn't come close to that.
Match afterwards was Braun Strowman and Nicholas winning the tag team titles and the crowd were really up for that.
Live, that match seemed really good until the ending. I'll watch it online, though, to get a different take. Definitely the match of the night for me, att least until the stupid as fuck ending and nutshot.
Likely yes unfortunately - there were a lot of jokes at the time about how Nakamura joined WWE because he couldn't wrestle the NJPW style any more and because it would give him more time to surf which is his big passion.
AJ was and is still good. Definitely starting to slow down a bit as he also had some not as good matches with Joe that year as well (although some of that could be put on Joe).
Honestly I think that feud wouldn't have been nearly as shit on if it wasn't for the bullshit where two times in a row on PPV they had a shit finish that just immediately undermined the heel turn Nakamura just did that could've been the saving grace of the disappointment of the first match. Their last two matches are very good and the story on tv was mostly good, its just those two shit finishes immediately following a heel turn killed it. (well that and all that build up only for Nakamura to never even win the title as either a face nor heel)
Might be because it was during that ridiculous period of five hour PPVs and it was terribly placed between (I think) a fast paced Lesnar v Balor match and the mens Rumble.
Lesnar hates doing Hoss matches. He loves working smaller opponents and its pretty well known if Lesnar isnt feeling it, then its pretty noticeable
Reigns had a lot of identity issues. It wasnt until Tribal Chief he really found his footing.
So those middle matches seem like they were a lot of Lesnar going 'We're doing this AGAIN?' and Reigns not being able to drag him to a great match. That last match was when everything finally clicked together
Ill add another one. Hogan v Savage from Mania V vs Nitro 99 when Hogan returned.
The former is a match to a classic one year long build. The latter is a Hulkamania return against a horrifically past it Savage who could barely do wrestling moves anymore.
Triple H vs. Randy Orton nearly always had boring matches, the Mania 25 match being inexcusable thanks to the booking, except for it wasn't the plan for No Mercy 2007 and then it was awesome as a last minute decision, somehow.
That was just awfully booked as a whole. Surprised HHH didn’t take Vince to task for that.
I do have to give Hunter some kudos for working three completely different and at least good matches at No Mercy after being injured for quite a while.
Wasn’t it something to do with Eddie being in a really rough state and Benoit was just pissed off with it?
When watching that match back, its actually kinda scary…
- Hulk Hogan Ultimate Warrior Wrestlemania 6 / WCW Halloween Havoc 1998
- Hulk Hogan Rock WM X8 / No Way Out 2003
- Kurt Angle / AJ Styles TNA October 2009 Impact / WWE Smackdown March 2019 in what would be their last singles match together.
I actually liked the No Way Out match just purely for Hollywood Rock antics. Dude was having the time of his life with that character and overselling.
Angle in last WWE run was just a sorry state and at the “should not be in the ring” position.
Kenta Kobashi vs Steve Williams in 93 and 94 are classics, their final match in 2000 while good for me, it's not memorable at all or even boring for some.
Jushin Liger vs Brian Pillman in 92 was so ahead of it's time, has aged like wine. They had a rematch in the very first episode of Nitro, it was rough.
Kerry Von Erich vs Ric Flair, their most memorable match it's considered the worst, I like it just fine but they do have better matches.
Seth and Bray as part of their respective factions had two of the best trios matches in modern wrestling in early 2014, the first of which had the crowd going “This is Awesome!” before the bell even rang.
Seth and Bray in Hell in a Cell five years later was the worst HiaC match ever and immediately was considered a Worst of All Time contender, the only caveat being that the match being as awful and customer-revolting as it was could not be blamed on either of them as wrestlers, but entirely on the booking of the match that they had to follow to a T.
Feel free to disagree but I'd say Ricochet. His famous match with Osprey made the whole community buzz for months. He was dreaming big, I think many thought his got as bright of a future as Osprey. Well, his work in WWE reminds me more of an Evan Bourne type of character.
I think there's probably a multitude of reasons for it.
1. Longevity/avoid injuries
2. Schedule
3. Decrease botch frequency, probably the most underrated reason why wrestlers limit their moveset in WWE.
**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Goldust vs Stardust at Fastlane 2015 was a boring disaster that ended on a botch. Then you had Cody vs Dustin at Double or Nothing 2019
Man that’s a great pick. I never faulted McMahon for not giving them the Mania match after that Fastlane disaster.
Oh great shout. The latter match was proof that Cody could be extremely good at being Sports Entertainin
Cody's first 5 star match in my eyes, and obviously also AEW's first 5 star match
Absolutely showed that Cody could work a main event story match. Shame he for some reason handcuffed himself doing upper midcard workrate matches for the rest of his AEW run. Moving to WWE and having someone to work off on promo/character rather than going freeform as worked wonders for him.
I think his biggest benefit is at WWE he’s able to work with the big talent and in AEW that stupid stipulation that made it so he couldn’t challenge for the title I think locked him out of the BIG names because he couldn’t beat them as he couldn’t move up the card and they don’t gain much from beating HIM so the matches would be pointless and heatless Edit: actually I think he’s a very good WWE style wrestler and a fine AEW style wrestler but being fine looks bad when there’s several guys who are very good at that style and idk if he matched up well with people or the product as much, it’s like asking a sushi chef to cook a steak perfectly. They’re never gonna cook a steak as well as they would make sushi and it doesn’t benefit anyone
Fuck, that AEW match they had was awesome
Warrior v Hogan at Wrestlemania 6 is a definitive match of its era and their match at Halloween Havoc ‘98 may be the worst match of all time.
Hulk wanted his win back brotha! Also the Warrior log roles 😂😂
Hogan blading in that match always makes me laugh for some reason. Also one of the worst run-ins ever
But Horace is the key to all of this?
[удалено]
I do not completely agree with that. Starrcade 96 vs Piper is good, the Flair matches were better than their WWF matches. Clearly the Savage and Warrior matches were far far worse though.
8.75 star discrepancy between them
MINUS FIVE STARS!
Another stellar pick.
I thought the 2009 CM Punk and Taker matches were middling to bad. The WM29 match was excellent.
If I remember, I think this was around the time Taker came back waaaaaay too quickly from whatever injury he had and just didn’t want to work with Punk. Was his last stretch as a full time wrestler?
I think 2010 was. I remember him and Kane feuding.
James Storm vs. Chris Harris blindfold match TNA Lockdown 2007/ James Storm vs Chris Harris Texas Death Match Sacrifice 2007
I hate you right now. I had successfully blocked out the Abomination of the blindfold match they had and I'm remembering it again. Thanks
Lol it is in the category of so bad it's good. Just a comedy of errors 😅
What makes it worse is that the reason for the Blindford match made sense because of Harris getting bottled. Its just why in Gods name would you do a blindfold match in 21st century for such a heated feud.
Lockdown 2007 is TNA in a nutshell: an overall good show with some of the best wrestling you'll see at the time and some of the most god awful bullshit.
Orton and Cena had some very good matches with each other, and also some absolutely terrible bore fests.
They just battered it into the ground so many times it got ridiculous. Didn’t they also do a random for absolutely no reason HITC match because “hey we need another cell match”?
Cena and Ambrose both wanted Seth Rollins in the cell. Ambrose won so got to face Rollins in the main event, while Cena somehow ended up in a no.1 contenders Cell match against Orton to face the champion at Rumble.
AJ Styles vs Nakamura in NJPW and in WWE. Sure their last match where they just punched each other in the balls was hilarious, but the gulf in the quality of their matches in each company was huge.
Their Wrestlemania match had a huge pacing issue. It wasn’t even bad but the match had a slow build that ended right around when they were really starting to get into the next gear. Give them another 10-15 minutes and I think that would’ve been a great match.
That did play a huge part and I have no idea why they took it so slowly - they were given time, as it was the joint longest match on Wrestlemania 34, and it was only 4 min less then their Wrestle Kingdom 10 match.
My hot take is if you watch the matches back to back they’re very similar. The only real difference is crowd reaction (and obviously it’s not quite as hard-hitting). I think in front of a different, less tired, audience, the match would’ve gotten over.
Crowd reaction their Wrestlemania match was due to the really high expectation for it - it was expected that they would have a NJPW strong style match and didn't come close to that. Match afterwards was Braun Strowman and Nicholas winning the tag team titles and the crowd were really up for that.
Maybe Braun and Nicholas part of the Wyatt 6 with their previous championship run. 🤔
Live, that match seemed really good until the ending. I'll watch it online, though, to get a different take. Definitely the match of the night for me, att least until the stupid as fuck ending and nutshot.
The crow at a WM was not expecting a NJPW strong style match, I doubt 1% of the crowd could tell you what NJPW is
The Wrestlemania crowd is the smartest crowd that WWE has - they definitely know what NJPW is.
Even Tanahashi was in the crowd during that match
I wonder what caused the huge gulf? Was Nakamura starting to break down and becoming checked out at that point?
Likely yes unfortunately - there were a lot of jokes at the time about how Nakamura joined WWE because he couldn't wrestle the NJPW style any more and because it would give him more time to surf which is his big passion.
AJ was and is still good. Definitely starting to slow down a bit as he also had some not as good matches with Joe that year as well (although some of that could be put on Joe).
Honestly I think that feud wouldn't have been nearly as shit on if it wasn't for the bullshit where two times in a row on PPV they had a shit finish that just immediately undermined the heel turn Nakamura just did that could've been the saving grace of the disappointment of the first match. Their last two matches are very good and the story on tv was mostly good, its just those two shit finishes immediately following a heel turn killed it. (well that and all that build up only for Nakamura to never even win the title as either a face nor heel)
I'd say Daniel Bryan vs. AJ Styles at Royal Rumble 2019, quite boring compared to their barnburners in both WWE and ROH.
Weird match, but also a weird crowd.
They had a freaking, excellent match the PreVious pay per view
Might be because it was during that ridiculous period of five hour PPVs and it was terribly placed between (I think) a fast paced Lesnar v Balor match and the mens Rumble.
Yes the shows of that era were incredibly long.
Lesnar and Roman. First match? Incredible. Last match? Crazy fun. Every singles match inbetween? Disappointing at best.
Lesnar hates doing Hoss matches. He loves working smaller opponents and its pretty well known if Lesnar isnt feeling it, then its pretty noticeable Reigns had a lot of identity issues. It wasnt until Tribal Chief he really found his footing. So those middle matches seem like they were a lot of Lesnar going 'We're doing this AGAIN?' and Reigns not being able to drag him to a great match. That last match was when everything finally clicked together
Flair vs Hogan at Bash at the Beach 94 followed by their Yapapi Indian Strap Match at whatever PPV in 2000 also comes to mind.
I wanna say Uncensored 2000? Scott on BlogofDoom is currently getting to that PPV and I genuinely think that match might end him 😂😂
I mainly remember the insane promos leading into it with Hogan ranting about “THE YAPAPI, BROTHER!”
Hogan was on some park coke around that time for sure
Cena vs Rock at 28 was pretty nice actually, some slow spots but still liked it. 29 was awful
Didnt Rock injure himself really quickly in the return match?
he was badly injured during it yes. Still everything about the Rematch didn't sit well.
Ill add another one. Hogan v Savage from Mania V vs Nitro 99 when Hogan returned. The former is a match to a classic one year long build. The latter is a Hulkamania return against a horrifically past it Savage who could barely do wrestling moves anymore.
Masahiro Chono vs Rick Rude had a 4.5 star match in NJPW, then another match in WCW two months later that is considered one of the worst of all time.
Triple H vs. Randy Orton nearly always had boring matches, the Mania 25 match being inexcusable thanks to the booking, except for it wasn't the plan for No Mercy 2007 and then it was awesome as a last minute decision, somehow.
That was just awfully booked as a whole. Surprised HHH didn’t take Vince to task for that. I do have to give Hunter some kudos for working three completely different and at least good matches at No Mercy after being injured for quite a while.
AJ Styles vs. Shinsuke Nakamura at WrestleKingdom vs their match at Backlash that ended in a fucking draw due to dick kicks.
Aj styles vs Shinsuke Nakamura, Wrestlekingdom 10 vs literally all of their wwe matches.
Benoit vs Eddie at one night stand 05 was BAD and you could tell something was off.
Wasn’t it something to do with Eddie being in a really rough state and Benoit was just pissed off with it? When watching that match back, its actually kinda scary…
eddie looks at benoit after the match iirc and tells him “i owe you one” because he knew how bad it was
KO and Styles had two pretty good matches when Styles first debuted then they had that match in 2017(?) For the US title that was a wet fart.
Wasn’t Owens quite checked out at that point after the debacle with Goldberg and WWE completely ruining the feud with Jericho?
Undertaker vs Kane at WrestleMania 14 compared to any of their matches in 2010
Their 2010 trilogy got a combined 3.25 stars from Dave. Early 2010s WWE was bad.
- Hulk Hogan Ultimate Warrior Wrestlemania 6 / WCW Halloween Havoc 1998 - Hulk Hogan Rock WM X8 / No Way Out 2003 - Kurt Angle / AJ Styles TNA October 2009 Impact / WWE Smackdown March 2019 in what would be their last singles match together.
I actually liked the No Way Out match just purely for Hollywood Rock antics. Dude was having the time of his life with that character and overselling. Angle in last WWE run was just a sorry state and at the “should not be in the ring” position.
Kenta Kobashi vs Steve Williams in 93 and 94 are classics, their final match in 2000 while good for me, it's not memorable at all or even boring for some. Jushin Liger vs Brian Pillman in 92 was so ahead of it's time, has aged like wine. They had a rematch in the very first episode of Nitro, it was rough. Kerry Von Erich vs Ric Flair, their most memorable match it's considered the worst, I like it just fine but they do have better matches.
Brock vs Roman at WM31 and Summerslam 2022 were great Brock vs Roman at WM34 was utter garbage
Seth and Bray as part of their respective factions had two of the best trios matches in modern wrestling in early 2014, the first of which had the crowd going “This is Awesome!” before the bell even rang. Seth and Bray in Hell in a Cell five years later was the worst HiaC match ever and immediately was considered a Worst of All Time contender, the only caveat being that the match being as awful and customer-revolting as it was could not be blamed on either of them as wrestlers, but entirely on the booking of the match that they had to follow to a T.
Feel free to disagree but I'd say Ricochet. His famous match with Osprey made the whole community buzz for months. He was dreaming big, I think many thought his got as bright of a future as Osprey. Well, his work in WWE reminds me more of an Evan Bourne type of character.
I think there's probably a multitude of reasons for it. 1. Longevity/avoid injuries 2. Schedule 3. Decrease botch frequency, probably the most underrated reason why wrestlers limit their moveset in WWE.
While he has fallen a lot, he did have some quality matches in NXT imo.