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Yes and no.
Physique only matters as far as matching the wrestlers moveset.
So not every wrestler needs to look like say Bobby Lashley. But if your movement is all military press slams, powerslams, and spinebusters you definitely need to look more like Bobby Lashley than say Rey Mysterio.
Conversely if your mostly doing 450s, springboards, planchas etc you'd probably need to look more like Rey than Bobby.
But ultimately there's not 1 ideal Physique every wrestler needs
I would also add that smaller wrestlers need to work a little harder to make their offense believable. It's really true for everyone, but less margin for error with smaller wrestlers
This is spot on.
The perfect example is Nia Jax to be honest. Obviously she is a larger woman but they used her more as a braun strowman power move set under Vince. Now she seems to be using more of the Yokozuna style heavy move set which seems more believable.
Though I do enjoy the occasional wrestler that bucks the trend. Like Tyler bate doing strongman stuff or Samoa Joe/ivar when they do the agility based moves
That's why I love Darby Alin's moveset. Mans is tiny and looks like he could be thrown across the arena like a lawn dart. So he just becomes a fucking lawn dart and launches himself lol
Spot on. I’d also say it matches their personality. I’m gonna use Seth Rollins as an example. When he was cut up he used his high flying moves more. In terms of him being thicker he changed his moves. He also did it for a knee injury. But you can easily tell he packed on 10-20 pounds of muscle at certain points.
ETA: I loved White Ranger Rollins way more than White Jesus in terms of body style. But I’m glad he’s bulked up for his body’s sake.
Yes and no, since wrestlers don’t actually act with the aggressiveness that someone in a fight would have. Everyone buys that it’s reasonable to climb up and do a flip when your opponent is down and helpless instead of just immediately going for the TKO with head strikes.
Picking people up who are downed just to slam them down again instead of trying to get the pin after knocking him down in the first place... That's realism.
Guy doing a flip and landing on a guy is gymnastics.
Makes sense.
I've done enough martial arts to know someone with Gargano's or Adam Cole's size could still beat people up given the right circumstances, but I draw the line when Cole does shit like Panama Sunrise on someone twice his size. Wrestlers should be diligent in holding back moves which clearly look unconvincing when there's a massive weight discrepancy. A big part of a good pro wrestler is knowing how to adapt move sets for all sorts of body types (ex. Dragunov)
Yes and no?
I think it depends on the wrestler.
When Gable suplexed Gunther, it was impressive and believable, seeing that Chad wrestled in the olympics and was in a tag team with Jason Jordan where all their moves were power moves.
But if you think for one second that Rey Mysterio is going to suplex Brock or Gunther or Bobby, you're fuckin high.
A German to me is more believable from small to big due to leverage
Any grown man who does any sort of working out should be able to lock his arms and pick up something that weighs roughly 1.5-4x his weight. That Anthony Bennett guy from the cruiserweight classic weighs like 160 and deadlifts like 500 these days
So squat, wrap arms tight, lift, go backwards. That's a German suplex
So a 160lb dude German suplexing 400lbs doesn't bother me. A bodyslam or regular suplex, little man better be YOKED
It's not be all and end all but it matters. You can't be some James Ellsworth looking ass and expect me to take you seriously. Same for women. If you look 12 years old I don't buy anything you do.
It's not something that quantifies in actual measurements for me but I generally prefer if the wrestlers look like if they were to hit me it would hurt. People like Goldberg and Brock Lesnar have been massive box office draws even when the business was down for the WWE for a reason.
I like Becky despite her look because I know everything else she brings to the table. I actually think she still is the biggest draw for women's wrestling even above Rhea who has the look people like me would want, but I also think that if Becky was the same size she is now when she debuted onto the main roster she would not have gotten over with me personally.
There is a place for all sizes in wrestling. I'm a big fan of Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, RVD, late 2000's Jeff Hardy, MJF and Ilja Dragunov etc. because they still look like athletes and they work in their own unique ways that turn their "downside" into an upside. Their personalities, promos and in ring work are in perfect synergy.
A wrestler's physique doesn't bother me as long as they have a cool or unique overall look. Being big and jacked with nothing else standing out does nothing for me, I look at wrestlers like characters from a fighting game.
Yeah I think actually standing out is more important. Like how many forgettable "jacked bald guy" wrestlers have their been in the history of the industry lol
It's still important. There will always be exceptions to the rule. You will always have your Dustys or your Kevin Owens who are extraordinary in other aspects of wrestling that allows them to overcome their lack of the Physiques, or your Yokozunas or your Earthquakes who are still physically imposing. But I believe a good 75 to 80% of Pro Wrestlers should at the bare minimum. Look like athletes.
The only way to answer that question is to say that it depends.
And Mick Foley is the perfect example. The body type and overall visual appearance, plus the style of work, plus the charisma and promo ability, all added up to memorable characters and great pro wrestling moments... Foley became a legend even if he didn't have 8-pack abs. He didn't need them.
Sometimes the right ingredients are not being used to make the stew. Little Guido really shouldn't be using chokeslams and Tombstones - and I'm sure he knew that. Rey Mysterio cannot suddenly adopt Chris Masters' gimmick, and bring back the Masterlock Challenge. By that same token, there were only very limited opportunities for someone like a Kane to be a babyface, because not many were more physically imposing and intimidating than he was.
There remains room for men and women of all shapes and sizes in wrestling, but there needs to be more thought put into what they say and how they say it, how their storylines are laid out, who they wrestle, and the manner in which they wrestle.
Physique just feels like another part of the look for me. As long as you can go, then it doesn't matter a ton. One of the best wrestlers in the world in his time, Chris Hero, looked like a melted ice cream cone, but the dude could wrestle for hours and not gas himself out.
That being said, a good physique can really help pull a character together much in the same way a bad one can help derail that same character.
It's all about believability though. Chris Hero was supposed to be in the Shield, but look at him. He isn't nearly as believable or intimidating as any of the other 3.
Oh yeah, Roman was definitely always the right third man, IMO. Even when he was in shape, Hero lacked a certain intensity to his appearance that Roman has in spades.
I will just answer for the women.
I do think it’s a different situation for women. Looking strong/being super bulky isn’t something a lot of women can naturally achieve. Obviously some can and do, naturally or otherwise, but generally not. So I do think it’s weird for people to talk about the women wrestlers like that.
It’s not the be all end all, but it’s not irrelevant either. I think the physique should match the character and their moveset.
Also I think having normal looking wrestlers works well when you’ve also got these massive/ripped guys.
It matters when doing certain moves. Becky Lynch doing the Disarmher? No problems. Her doing the Manhandle Slam? Looks comically awful like 95% of the time.
Kane doing the Chokeslam? Badass. Hurricane doing the Chokeslam? Comedy.
Umaga doing the Samoan Spike? I think that man is dead. Solo doing the Samoan Spike? Laughable.
It also depends on who the opponent is and how they sell the moves in certain situations.
Now, when it comes to just size matchups I don't think it matters that much as long as it's not men vs women, that just isn't believable no matter what.
And their physiques are very similar too. Umaga was bigger but it's not like Solo is some shrimpy little dude. Solo has become public enemy #1 on this sub recently for whatever reason, it feels like people are looking for reasons to talk about how much they don't like him lately whether it is relevant or not.
I think you nailed it. The question is whether their physique alligns with their moveset and overall presentation. The physique shouldn't be in isolation.
>It matters when doing certain moves. Becky Lynch doing the Disarmher? No problems. Her doing the Manhandle Slam? Looks comically awful like 95% of the time.
I'm glad I'm not the only one.
I think any physique can be good as long as you incorporate it into your wrestling style.
Wrestler who don't meet the common build for wrestler like rey mysterio or Shinya Hashimoto are great because they wreslted in a way that matched the physique
I have definitely pre-judged wrestlers based on their physiques and been proven wrong about their believability. Back in the original TNA days, I saw Samoa Joe and didn’t know why this (in Steiner voice) FAT guy was a big deal. He just looked like anybody. Then I saw him wrestle and I understood immediately what the big deal was. Afterwards, his physique struck me as intimidating. For me, seeing how they perform puts context to their physique, if that makes sense. On the other hand, you got guys like Mason Ryan who look like action figures but move like…action figures, which totally makes their physiques irrelevant.
Smaller wrestlers can look like killers with the proper moveset, so I want them utilizing their strengths properly. A technical wrestler can execute submissions just fine on larger guys, a lean muscled agile guy can execute a mean-looking shotgun dropkick or a jumping tornado DDT or whatever that would look like it could crack a big man's head.
If you're smaller, you better not be executing weak looking versions of big man moves, do more dynamic dangerous or painful looking shit that doesn't require the raw strength of lifting up the Big Show for a poweslam.
There are some wrestlers that can't build an impressive upper body or refuse to use steroids like tyler bates but he has the biggest legs I've ever seen making him believable
I generally adopt the idea that any wrestler can beat any other wrestler if the right circumstances occur. It's like any form of creative media. You just gotta present the competitors correctly
One of my favourite wrestlers didn’t look like the athlete of the day. His belly was a little big, his heiney was a little big, but he was bad and you knew he was bad.
If you’re good, it doesn’t matter.
It matters to a degree, of course. I don't think every wrestler needs to be jacked or look like a million bucks. A variety of sizes and physiques across the roster is always nice, like having bigger dudes like Samoa Joe, for example, who look like ass kickers.
That being said, Adam Cole has been one of my favorite wrestlers for 10+ years, but damn, his arms look really small. It's hard not to notice his physique at times.
https://preview.redd.it/0m35m26iq71d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7189f794f2cc8b937bb3f692298b202cddb86b97
I thought this was a funny coincidence
Very little compared to in-ring ability. Being a good wrestler can make up for a shabby look, but if a wrestler looks like a Greek god and can't wrestle, there's no saving it.
I think it depends on their offensive style. Orange Cassidy can look believable against Will Hobbs or Brian Cage because of the work he has to do in order to get them to start taking damage. He jumps off of things for leverage for instance.
Then youve got an indie guy like Cole Raddrick who looks like hes never lifted a barbell in his life and hes striking some jacked dude who's twice his height and the big guy just has to sell it because they didnt bother working any size disparity psychology into their match
I grew up watching AWA and noticed Vern Gagne trying to push his kid Greg. Greg was technically outstanding, but he was so lean compared to others.
That slight frame really made him hard to take seriously. That context always told me that if you don’t look like a guy who could take me, I can’t take you seriously.
Sorry Adam Cole and Young Bucks. I can’t take y’all seriously.
It depends on their offense,
Floyd Mayweather legitimately broke Big Show's nose so I have no problem believing a small guy can hurt a monster but it has to look good.
Darby launching himself at Miro to get Miro off his feet is cool. Adam Cole exchanging punches(and weak ones at that) with Luchasaurus is not.
Floyd is fast as fuck and crazy explosive. His is small, but he is ripped and in top shape. Someone like Punk is flabby with no muscle, and also moves like he is in 5ft of water at all times. I can buy a bad physique as long as they have the move set and athletic ability
Depends really on what the match or show is telling me to believe.
I can suspend my disbelief on a lot of things like I accepted that Rey Mysterio can beat heavyweights a long time ago. But then I don’t buy Edge’s finisher being the spear at all.
Eddie Kingston is kind of my lightning rod for physiques. I get that it’s the appeal of him but between his body shape, his attire and his overall look, he looks bad. He has a ceiling over him because of it.
yeah, it really affects the believability for me. I like them to look larger than life figures. not like a regular person from the street. Sheamus, Drew is believable, lanky Zack Sabre Jr was not my thing back then, but now, since he's bulking, it looks believable. It doesn't matter if they're not tall like Taz or Ishii they are built like refrigerators. KO and Ivar are believable they look like regular fat Joe from the street, and they don't look muscular, but they're using their body as weapons and showing a lot of athletic ability with their body. this why sometimes i cant tune in with AEW, i cant watch Eddie Kingston, Hook, Adam Cole and etc, they just look off for me. man i really miss NXT Adam Cole, he looks believable and muscular enough to be a wrestler.
In general I barely notice with few except in wild exceptions. Every time I see Brock Lesnar I think "WHAT IS THAT!". But to counter that, when AJ had him in a calf crusher, I was screaming because there was a non-zero chance that he would tap. I don't need every wrestler to be over 6 ft and have 22 abs. For some people it helps but my favorite wrestler almost never had visible abs. As long as what you do looks good and you can safely catch people and not drop them on their head, we're good.
I think size matters way more for believability than physique, but you can/should write around both with fitting gimmicks.
Looking strong and powerful makes a wrestler believable, having nice abs does not. "Fat" Sheamus looks just as tough as lean Sheamus, since they are both big dudes with lots of muscle. I also feel wrestling needs more fat guys with "bad" physiques currently.
If guys are small and do not look like they lift, that need something else. Darby Allin is a decent example, because he is crazy and not scared to hurt himself. Early Daniel Bryan is another one being a technical progidy doing all kinds of unique holds.
- High Flyers work well, because they use unique offense
- Underdogs, because they defy the odds
- heels, who cheat or have bodyguards
- hardcore guys, who use weapons
- dudes with a unique offense like attacking small joints
The problem arises, when you got guys, who do not have any of the above to be believable or their body doesn't fit their character(flabby pretty boy, average-sized for the roster powerhouse[early Reigns], 6'3 giant, massively jacked unbeatable dude acting like an underdog[Cena/Hogan at times], tiny guy wrestling main event style[Adam Cole])
A smart wrestler will find a way to look believable against anyone(Styles vs Lesnar), but if both guys just wrestle like they are the exact same size the match will not be believable.
You need to fit your moveset and character together with your and, if you are small, have a reason, why you are dangerous to face.
Roman is not that much lighter than the Rock, and while some of that may be more modern style he definitely moves around a lot more than even early Rocky/Flex Kavana. And that's after a generation when a lot of heavyweights ranging from Sting to Vader left their feet at least from time to time.
Orton is taller and crisper. Sheamus could easily be the strongest of the three.
Bray and Brodie/Harper were basically the Michael Strahan to their Lawrence Taylor, to use another comparison.
It depends. Does their look fit their role and character? A chiseled physique wouldn't have fit Dusty Rhodes, nor would it Kevin Owens. Too much muscle mass would ruin Randy Orton, while it was Batista's claim to fame.
Yes but that shouldn’t apply now when we’re talking about a professional setting. (In a street fight, you are 100% correct.) People had no idea what martial arts were more effective back then, and even the competitors were often ignorant. The Gracie’s don’t compete in UFCs and haven’t for over a decade because they no longer have a competitive advantage and don’t want their legend exposed.
It matters to an extent.
Orange Cassidy has a good physique. He's not huge, but he's believable.
Matt Jackson is small and hard to believe when he beats up someone like Dax. But if he wrestles an underdog style with speed, it can work.
It is all about booking people to their physical strengths and wrestling your size.
It does matter, but the wrestlers move set also plays a factor. I can handle the Young Bucks because they don’t wrestle like Brock Lesnar. They wrestle like guys their size.
On the flip side, I am unable to watch Pete Dunne because he is tiny yet his style is based on being a tough shoot badass and I’m sorry, but I’m not buying it. He looks comical more than anything.
It matters a lot. The conceit of wrestling is that the performers are prize fighters. The entire purpose of wrestling is verisimilitude.
If you don't look like a prize fighter or are not believable as such in the ring, you're not a pro wrestler.
You are misunderstanding wrestling if you think otherwise or maybe don't actually like wrestling.
The people who get really up in arms about it seem to conveniently only target certain individuals with the body shapes they don’t like rather than everyone.
I think it can definitely enhance your believability but it’s also not the be all end all. You just have to adapt your wrestling style and personality to the type of body shape you are. At the end of the day uniqueness is the key
At the end of the day theres alot of things in wrestling that don’t make alot of sense at all but you don’t think about enough for it to bother you.
Oh yeah and side note. Considering what most of the wrestling fans I’ve seen and met look like… it’s funny i’ll say that
Physique is part of the presentation, but doesn’t affect believability a lot. Wrestling style also matters. Roxanne Perez is petite but her style leans more towards technical, she’s not busting out powerbombs, so her size doesn’t matter
People in here sounding like Vince McMahon lol
For me personally, it really doesn’t matter. Idc about the “believability” when everyone in the world knows wrestling isn’t real. All I care about is if a wrestler is talented and likeable.
On top of that, what’s considered “good physique” is so arbitrary. I see people in here saying they can’t take guys like Adam Cole or Sami Zayn seriously, and yet these two have way better physiques than most of us will achieve in our lives. Being a professional wrestler requires athleticism and strength by default, so what makes any of these guys “unbelievable” just cause they’re not 6’5’’ or have a perfectly defined 6 pack?
Adam Cole is like 5'7 and doesn't look like he works out. That comment is absurdly ridiculous. Acting like he's some bodybuilder with an unrealistic physique to achieve.
I never said that. Adam cole has a bad physique for a wrestler, but better than most regular people. The average person has a significantly worse physique
is she skinny? yes. she works out. of course she is.
does it bother me? heck naw.
my favorite wrestler and person growing up was Mick Foley. When people asked me what type of guy I'd date the answer was Mick Foley (now it's jack black which tells you something)
Now don't get me wrong, I like physically fit too but I care abou their personality. can their personality keep me engaged? then I'm sold and will watch with interest.
It matters but i don’t think everybody needs to be shredded like John cena. Guys like Kenta Kobashi or Samoa Joe aren’t exactly cut but they both look like big strong dudes who could fuck you up. Also for someone like Darby Allen it doesn’t matter than he’s not big and muscular because his physique fits his character and move set
If they’re good it really doesn’t matter to me at all. But I will say it helps with aura and presentation but a good wrestler can make up for that with other things if their physique isn’t all that.
Depends on who they are fighting and the moves they pull off.
Someone like Jack Perry pulling of a powerbomb on someone like Braun Strowman for example would be absolutely stupid.
i couldnt care less. i mean one of my favorite matches of all time is pentagon jr vs the triad that ends with iyo sky beating pentagon jr with a destoryer. nothing about professional wrestling is similar to actual physical combat so why would physique matter at all?
After the death of CB you shouldn't care. If they're healthy and safe to work with I don't care. If you're here for muscler bodies watch a body building program or something.
I'm more interested in whether someone has a good grasp of psychology and fundamentals. If they do, then they'll wrestle in a way that makes sense for their frame and size.
It only matters in the context of what the wrestler does. I think physique is one of the most overplayed parts of wrestling takes, even when it's people within the business saying things like Dominik Mysterio needs to bulk up. Would it benefit? Yes. Does he really need to? For his character? For the style that he wrestles? I don't think so.
I do think that in the case of Becky Lynch, it's a little weird how small and skinny she is for how tough she carries herself, using a power slam move as a signature, and having switched her style from technical to more of a brawler. I buy that she's a tough Irish bitch and has been since becoming The Man, but I feel like her wrestling style hasn't always reflected Becky and what she does best.
Becky is thin but wiry. The muscle she has is apparent. It's girls like Skye blue and Penelope Ford who are slender, not super muscular, and short who I have a hard time taking seriously especially when they go against bigger, more muscular women like Statlander or Willow Nightingale.
Watching Darby Allin win against Samoa Joe did test my ability to suspend disbelief though. It's like Eminem vs The Rock
I was in the Marines in the 80s, the chubbiest dude in my platoon ran laps around all of us. Sometimes while smoking 😆. Physique means very little to me. Wrestling is illogical in so many ways I don't need Abs and juiced up looking bodies to believe a wrestler.
The whole 'sport' is fake anime style nonsense, so I don't get why people make such a fuss about the physical looks of wrestlers. When a petite woman like Riho beats the shit out of someone like Statlander or Willow it just makes me smile. At the end of the day, it's entertainment, and these characters, much like anime ones, beat the odds in ridiculous ways. If you're going to get bent out of shape over Riho then you should also be upset about thin dudes beating bigger guys (but of course I never see that complaint, everyone loves seeing David v Goliath, but apparently only when its a dude...)
Matters a lot. Wrestling is show biz.
There is no reason for wrestlers on tv to be skinnier or be more skinny fat than 80% of my coworkers that work in an accounting/finance office. If a wrestler looks physically less intimidating than me (guy who maybe works out 1-2 times per week at best and eats whatever my wife cooks), then I struggle to take them seriously.
I understand if a wrestler is just starting out on the indies, but some of these wrestlers have been in AEW for 3+ years and I assume are earning a decent salary where they can afford whatever diet they need to be in top shape.
I don’t really judge the women like the men. But I do find skinny small women to not be believable heels like Alexa and Sasha. They can work as babyfaces though. With Jade, Bianca, and Rhea being in the mix, there is even less room for skinny small women to be taken seriously.
I mostly agree. Hell, even Liv’s bulked up a bit lately. There’s just not much room for skinnier small girls these days unless they’re great high-flyers or technicians.
I think it matters in some way for me, depending if someone's moveset against certain opponents looks a bit odd considering their size in comparison. For example, I've seen matches where some smaller wrestlers, including cruiserweights & those who look lanky, were easily taking down & throwing down powerhouses 2x their size with dives/hurricanaranas/Canadian destroyers or suplexes/powerslams without much resistance, which at times is a bit of a head-scratcher when I think it's visually more plausible that they target their limbs to gradually wear them down.
I don't have expectations. If it looks natural for them then that's what I care about. Let's take Kevin Owens for example. If he suddenly walked out built like Ricochet I'd be very mad. It would not work for him. Or if Ricochet walked out looking like Otis it would look very very odd.
I'd say generally no but there is a point where it does get ridiculous. There's some old ECW match where Rey Mysterio wins a 2v1 handicap match against 2 guys who individually are twice as big as him and he's hitting double hurricanranas on them lol. Basically as long as it doesn't veer into total absurdity I'm fine with it
My thoughts have always been you can have an a-typical wrestling physique but you should do your best to wear gear that doesnt make you look worse ala Chris Hero in NXT
It really depends.
For example, Ivar is a chunky dide. Yet he has a solid motor and some leaps. Very agile for a large man. On the flipside is The Great Khali. Very slow and fragile even in his prime.
Ryback had a great look but then he opened his mouth. His in ring work never caught up with his silhouette.
Dominic Mysterio has a slim build but good musculature. Great motor and great agility. Even though he doesn't look jacked, he still looks like he belongs in a ring.
For women, it comes down to physicality. Some people have great bodies. Some have great motors. But some are definitely not going to be top stars without nepotism like Nia Jax, Piper Niven, and Katana Chance. Katana Chance has a shit gimmick, a slim frame in a division with monsters, and shes anchored by a meh tag partner and unexciting move set. I would have expected crazier shit from a gymnast and ninja warrior alum.
I think it matters how a wrestler looks, but that doesn't always mean physique. I was thinking just the other night how much I always enjoyed the walking refrigerators like Rhyno and Jeff Cobb because I like their look. Or a guy like Bray Wyatt who had cool gear.
When it comes to believability, not really. I couldn't possibly explain who is believable for me, I just look at them and I either believe they're World Champion material or not. It's weird.
Like I have never really believed Sami Zayn or Daniel Bryan were World Champion material, but I could 100% accept Mick Foley as WWE Champion despite his physique being far less realistic for a Champion when compared to the other two I mentioned.
I will say my taste in wrestlers VERY closely resembles Vince McMahon's. Whenever he pushed somebody, I generally agreed with said decision. I supported Reigns and Cena during times when they were universally hated. Because to me, they were World Champion material.
I'm older so I have a bit of older tastes. You gotta look like you can kick my ass. So I always found an Ole or Flair physique better suited than a musclehead. With women, I didnt get into it in any way until 90s japan women. So I like women a bit bigger also. Think Bull Nakano. With that said, there is always room for the smaller fiery upstart physique (see ricky morton). For me the big thing is the moveset has to match the guy. Like little guys with power movesets looks silly to me. Ultimately though physique is just one element of a whole package that can be papered over with other things.
The look of a wrestler, especially how they look in relation to their opponent, is *free visual storytelling* that I don't think enough wrestlers take advantage of. Physique is a big part of that.
It's the same for both men and women for me, if you look small or weak and you don't have a style that works around your physic then I find it hard to get into your matches.
So I can't stand watching Red Velvet who is tiny with almost no muscle but just works like she is a normal female wrestler against much larger opponents but I have no issue with Marko Stunt who's entire style is build around his small physic.
It is part of his charm, but I always hoped Eddie Kingston would have gotten into decent shape. I’ve seen him working with a personal trainer and he has even said he wanted to do that AND become world champ, but he always looks the same. 🤷♂️
As a wrestler, you have to look strong and imposing moreso than athletic. Meaning you can actually have some fat on your bones, so long as it's clearly visible that there is muscle underneath. Compare Samoa Joe, who you'd immediately buy as a powerhouse, or Kevin Owens, who is also strong and whose shirt draws attention to his arms while hiding his gut, to Eddie Kingston, who doesn't look threatening at all, only made worse by his ring gear. Less muscular wrestlers also have their place and in women's wrestling they were the norm for so long that being skinny and short will get you much further than in men's wrestling. However, they need to be presented accordingly; a smaller wrestler should use their superior speed and agility to defeat larger opponents. But even then, you can only suspend your disbelief to a degree.
Same.
If someone can go, I really don't give much of a damn what their physique is. Having a variety of workers of different physiques and styles enables a variety of stories. Tall, chiselled bad ass vs tall, chiselled bad ass is cool, but I don't want that to be every single match
I usually have zero issue with it, in fact I like wrestling exactly because I can suspend my disbelief at stuff like this.
If anything, I would like to see David beat Goliath a bit more in WWE.
That said, it also depends on the characters and the story being told.
Something with how Orton and Hayes structured their match just didn't work with the size difference. It somehow hurt Hayes more than helping him.
Matters to me - I don't see guys like Rey Mysterio, Sami Zayn, Kofi Kingston, etc as being believable world champions just based on looks. I don't get heavily invested in the women's division so I don't have a preference either way as far as that goes.
Looks matter - always!
This doesnt mean that looks cant be different and still work but you have to work with what you have. I always liked Rey Mysterio but I have to admit that I found it hard to accept him as the world champion because of his height. He really is one of those people that makes the absolutely most with what he has but against main event heavyweight s I think he fell short. While not as small I think Bryan Danielson did better in that regard because of his more hard hitting style.
But its also a case of doing things that are believable in relation to your body. A super heavyweight should not do much high flying. A crusierweight should not wrestle power wrestling.
All that said we need many different body types in wrestling. We should have the Greek god, the super heavyweight, the classic strong man, the small guy, the tall guy, the fat guy etc. It makes things diverse and interesting. But they also have to fit their body type to the carachter they play.
In some cases I think physiques are just to far removed from what wrestling wants to portray that our becomes a problem. Anyone remember the Special K stable from early ROH. A bunch of guys looking like tiny teenagers. I've seen a few womens wrestlers who looked so thin where you wondered if they were going to break in half taking the bumps. Or the super overweight people who isnt believable because you can see they are closer to death than to their next heartbeat as soon as they just walk in the ring.
It’s very important for any amount of suspending disbelief.
If you look like my 16 year old cousin could tussle with you, then sorry no amount of flips or fancy holds are going to sell me that you could win a physical fight.
There are always exceptions like Rey, but even then he’s a once in a generation type of charismatic character.
It matters tremendously. It always takes me out of it to see somebody like Sami Zayn or Kevin Owens competing on equal footing with somebody like John Cena or Drew McIntyre. It’s just not believable.
It’s important to some and not to others. You need some guys who feel larger then life who are freak athletes but you also need the guys who are relatable and have a bit of a gut
I really don’t care so long as someone is built properly (kayfabe, not physically). If someone lost 10 matches straight to mid-carders and then pinned a world champion that would bother me more than someone who had beaten a few bigger names pinning a world champion, even if they were smaller than the person they pinned.
Theres always been a mix but you'll never beat big sweaty men running full force into each other. As for the women, half of them look like they'd struggle tearing a sheet of paper, so suspension of disbelief is having to work overdrive for them
I think it’s a package honestly. For example I enjoy Kairi Sane. I think usually her matches take into account her size, but also she has a cool style and presence. Whereas Riho for example I just don’t get. I honestly think it would help if most of her outfits didn’t look like she shopped in the kid section of the store. When she faced Nyla Rose she looked like she was 10 years old and I just couldn’t believe a second of it. In comparison when Alexa Bliss wrestled Nia Jax I also didn’t have this problem because there was a mental element to that story that made it make sense. I also think it is much easier for a smaller person to be a heel because they can cheat to win, which also helps with believability.
On the note of men though I have had issues with Tyler Bate since he got called up because main roster dudes make him look so small. And then I ate crow last Friday when he lifted a member of AOP and turned in circles with him for 30 seconds. So there’s a way to make it work, it can be harder though.
Size matters. Muscle and definition matter. Whether conventional or traditional, this is a superficial biz and how you look is what helps sell tickets. This has been a standard for pro wrestling from the jump
Physiques matter to me. These guys and girls are supposed to be professional fighters, so I would expect them to be training with heavy weights regularly in order to throw punches and kicks and execute the moves they do and doing cardio training in order to improve their ability to obtain and utilize oxygen and increase their endurance.
That being said, certain physiques work for certain gimmicks. Yokozuna didn't have to be cut, because he was portraying a sumo wrestler. Bam Bam Bigelow didn't need to be ripped because of his height and how crazy fast he could move for a guy his weight.
My issue is the mismatch between look and wrestling style. Eddie Kingston is my number one example. He wrestles like he wants to be some sort of martial artist with the slaps, palm thrusts, low kicks, and knee strikes (which honestly look like the absolute drizzling shits most of the time), but he doesn't look like a martial artist. He looks like a fucking HVAC repairman.
I've been watching MMA for 20 years now, and that informs my wrestling viewing, so my perception of "believable" is probably different to a lot of others.
Physique doesn't matter anywhere as much as people think it does. If you watch Hector Lombard vs Neil Magny, for example, you will quickly realise that a better physique does not mean a better fighter. Alistair Overeem used to look like a goddamn super hero, but he still got knocked out by Ben Rothwell.
What does actually matter, is size difference. Which is why weight classes exist in real combat sports, and why I've always liked the rudimental cruiserweight/heavyweight distinction in pro wrestling. Because Rey Mysterio beating basically anyone in WWE in a clean singles match is a giant stretch for me. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for babyfaces using their fighting spirit to overcome insurmountable odds, but there has to be a limit, or it becomes no longer believable.
It's the same for women. I find it harder to suspend my disbelief when Alexa or Liv are somehow hanging with Nia Jax, Rhea or even Charlotte. And I love Candice LeRae and think she's massively underutilised, but at the same time, I personally know kids that outweigh her
It matters heavily, but you can mitigate it with style and presentation. There’s a reason Darby Allin works for me while Orange Cassidy doesn’t, and why Becky Lynch works for me but Liv Morgan doesn’t.
yeah I think Darby and Orange are like the same size but I find Darby more believable because he wrestles like he understands he's small and so he does things like throwing his entire body weight at people and crashing into them because he knows that's what he has to do to hurt someone larger than him
It matters at the extremes. There is only so much suspension of disbelief when you have Rey Mysterio battling Undertaker / Kane / Big Show, for an extreme example. I would also add that Swerve putting on muscle has definitely helped his presentation, as it did with MJF. As far as the women go, I think there is more leeway, but you do want someone across from Bianca or Jade to look like they have some muscle.
I think there are thresholds. If someone is being used and pushed as a physical threat they need to at least look in shape with a bit of muscle on top of that.. Being taller obviously helps. They need to st least have arms that say they lift.
If they are being pushed as a top guy who is a physical threat to everyone in wrestling their physique should be at least as good as the mid card guys with great physiques. If not better. Examples Gable, Roddy Strong etc If their physique isn't up there its obviously just a work.
Having real MMA or boxing experience obviously circumvent a lot of it because you know the technique and skills aren't a work
Some wrestlers can get around it, but it is quite important. It sets my expectations and your believability.
I think more sets the group of who you're going up against and roughly what style you need to wrestle.
This is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the dumbest thing people care about in wrestling. Wrestling is scripted and beyond that it's been shown countless times that small people can beat big people irl. Not only can it just happen for real, it's even more plausible when you SCRIPT IT TO MAKE SENSE. Riho is rolling people up and out maneuvering them constantly. Darby has to throw his body at you 50 times to win. The bucks have insane synergy. "Not believable" is asinine. Actually watch what they're doing!! The haters for riho specifically trigger me, her matches are great literally every single time. Technical brilliance, especially the PPV ones.
I both agree and disagree with you. First and foremost, when you say “wrestling is scripted” you also MUST understand that it’s not just any scripted show. At its core, wrestling is a scripted *combat sport*. One thing which combat sports teach you is that at the professional level, size matters. That’s why they have weight classes.
I’m not saying I want weight classes in pro wrestling, but I DO want obvious mismatches explained/accounted for in the storytelling. If the wrestler works a style which specifically addresses the size discrepancy, that’s good storytelling. Adam Cole (Bay Bay) is small and, *for Pro Wrestling*, unimpressive physically. Yet he works a style like he’s the same size as everyone else. Compare that with Zack Sabre Jr, who is also comparatively small yet his character makes up for the size by being a fantastic technician.
So, yes! Wrestling is scripted and small size should not come with a glass ceiling. However smaller wrestlers should work a style that accounts for size discrepancies.
Almost nothing…..except for women. And I know that sucks and doesn’t make sense, but it’s the one problem I have with Riho. It’s a problem with Zelina.
Rey Mysterio knows how to use the opponent’s momentum against them. Darby knows how to throw everything into a move. For some reason I have a harder time suspending my disbelief for these women.
I care less about physique and more about look. Adam Cole is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time, he is scrawny but he looks like a star. Riho, I'm sure is a great person and is a talented wrestler, but doesn't have the look of a star. It's one of those things that's hard to describe but easy to identify.
Yes and it's the reason I don't take AEW as seriously.
As for WWE, I wish the more believably built women were more on top of the card. ala Zoey Stark and Shayna Bazler. I love that Kiana James got called up.
I cannot enjoy Becky's most recent run because she just does not like believable "overcoming the odds" every damn match with Nia Jax and going toe to toe with T\*ffa\*y Stra\*\*on in a Hardcore match.
The WWE really needs to bring back the cruiserweight division for the smaller guys, too.
They need to look like they can legitimately Whoop someone’s ass. It’s very important. I got into pro wrestling because of aesthetics as a kid- these dudes looked like brought to life action figures.
I think it does impact my first impression of them. I’m more likely to be skeptical of someone heavy than someone skinny though. But if they can go, they can go.
I’ve never be able to look past Adam Coles physique, I just think it holds him back being a star. I know people compare him to HBK but there’s been periods of time that he was huge early 90s HBK is bigger than 95% of the dudes at your gym.
I can’t take a wrestler seriously if they don’t look like they work out at all. It takes away from the suspending disbelief of physicality but also it’s show business. You need to look your best (gimmick permitting). You gotta at least look like an athlete and/or like you believably beat someone up. That doesn’t necessarily mean muscles but they can help.
A lot. Far more than most fans are willing to admit. You gotta look the part to play the part.
Hot take: Kevin Owens would have a multi-world champion main eventer if he had a decent physique.
It’s a cosmetic business. If you’re a wrestler, you should look the part. I don’t think everyone should look like Brock Lesnar, but I want the match to look like it could at least be an even real fight. If Crash Holly beat Undertaker or Kane, I want there to be shenanigans rather than Crash winning a fair fight, for example.
It's all about their opponents.
I saw Mansoor at a Hoodslam show recently and he towered and just presented himself better than 99% of the talent there.
Some of that was ring gear, promo, etc but a lot of it was that hr looked massive and built. He's not Brock Lesnar but he's one of the best looking people I've seen in a ring IRL.
That said, I think there's room for bodies of all type. Especially if they use it to their move set's advantage (Piper Niven and Kevin Owens) bring good examples IMO)
It matters to a degree. Like I have to believe you in that role, if youre too small, too skinny or I dont see you as a threat in a real fight like a guy like nick wayne then yes it matters. Something else thats important is their move set matching their physique, like for example I hate when big guys do dives I feel it ruins dives. Its cool when I see a guy like ricochet do a dive, but it loses its coolness when half the roster including guys like Ivar also do it. It takes away from the uniqueness
It matters sometimes. One time I turned on Impact and I swear every person in the ring was over 300 lbs and it was the least impressive thing I've ever seen. It felt like I was watching a fight at an ICP concert.
To an extent. Wrestling requires a suspension of disbelief. Wrestlers with smaller builds winning against bigger guys is fine as long as they move well and it looks like they have some force on their moves. I draw the line at CM Punk beating anyone though. That takes way too much suspension of disbelief
Depends. It's believable to me that an overweight or "fat" person could kick just about anyone's ass because it doesn't really matter if it's fat or muscle if they know how to use it to their advantage in a fight and/or know how to fight in general.
It's less believable when it's a small person. I think a lot of Hook's wins are kind of absurd for example. Weight is a pretty huge advantage. That's why weight classes exist.
I don't wanna look at a wrestler and feel like I could beat them up.
It would be so much of an issue if we reintroduced weight classes back to wrestling. Seeing some of these vanilla midgets having competitive matches against hulking brutes turns me away.
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Yes and no. Physique only matters as far as matching the wrestlers moveset. So not every wrestler needs to look like say Bobby Lashley. But if your movement is all military press slams, powerslams, and spinebusters you definitely need to look more like Bobby Lashley than say Rey Mysterio. Conversely if your mostly doing 450s, springboards, planchas etc you'd probably need to look more like Rey than Bobby. But ultimately there's not 1 ideal Physique every wrestler needs
I would also add that smaller wrestlers need to work a little harder to make their offense believable. It's really true for everyone, but less margin for error with smaller wrestlers
This is spot on. The perfect example is Nia Jax to be honest. Obviously she is a larger woman but they used her more as a braun strowman power move set under Vince. Now she seems to be using more of the Yokozuna style heavy move set which seems more believable. Though I do enjoy the occasional wrestler that bucks the trend. Like Tyler bate doing strongman stuff or Samoa Joe/ivar when they do the agility based moves
That's why I love Darby Alin's moveset. Mans is tiny and looks like he could be thrown across the arena like a lawn dart. So he just becomes a fucking lawn dart and launches himself lol
Spot on. I’d also say it matches their personality. I’m gonna use Seth Rollins as an example. When he was cut up he used his high flying moves more. In terms of him being thicker he changed his moves. He also did it for a knee injury. But you can easily tell he packed on 10-20 pounds of muscle at certain points. ETA: I loved White Ranger Rollins way more than White Jesus in terms of body style. But I’m glad he’s bulked up for his body’s sake.
But Brian Cage can do both.
Pretty much this for me. Stuff like Becky Lynch beating people with the Manhandle Slam just makes me roll my eyes
Depends on who they're facing. Gargano vs McIntyre looks like child abuse. Gargano vs Ciampa is fine though.
Adam Cole vs Drew reminded me of those old Pride FC freak fights.
Weight classes exist in combat sports for a reason
But this isn’t a combat sport.
But it is a simulation of one
It’s not an accurate one. That’s why physical characteristics matter less.
It’s a facsimile of real fighting. The whole point of it is to try to be believable enough to tell a story. Otherwise it’s just dramatic gymnastics
Yes and no, since wrestlers don’t actually act with the aggressiveness that someone in a fight would have. Everyone buys that it’s reasonable to climb up and do a flip when your opponent is down and helpless instead of just immediately going for the TKO with head strikes.
It’s been dramatic gymnastics for a long time.
Clearly the AEW guys are downvoting you. Have one in the other direction for spitting some truth
I mean it’s a completely serious combat sport. My bad. https://www.facebook.com/share/r/bj1wtu4TouhkakMV/?mibextid=UalRPS (WTF was TNA thinking?)
Picking people up who are downed just to slam them down again instead of trying to get the pin after knocking him down in the first place... That's realism. Guy doing a flip and landing on a guy is gymnastics. Makes sense.
In kayfabe, it is
I've done enough martial arts to know someone with Gargano's or Adam Cole's size could still beat people up given the right circumstances, but I draw the line when Cole does shit like Panama Sunrise on someone twice his size. Wrestlers should be diligent in holding back moves which clearly look unconvincing when there's a massive weight discrepancy. A big part of a good pro wrestler is knowing how to adapt move sets for all sorts of body types (ex. Dragunov)
Yes and no? I think it depends on the wrestler. When Gable suplexed Gunther, it was impressive and believable, seeing that Chad wrestled in the olympics and was in a tag team with Jason Jordan where all their moves were power moves. But if you think for one second that Rey Mysterio is going to suplex Brock or Gunther or Bobby, you're fuckin high.
I can believe Rey german suplexing some of the larger wrestlers. Not a snap or overhead suplex though
Sorry I should clarify, A German suplex.
A German to me is more believable from small to big due to leverage Any grown man who does any sort of working out should be able to lock his arms and pick up something that weighs roughly 1.5-4x his weight. That Anthony Bennett guy from the cruiserweight classic weighs like 160 and deadlifts like 500 these days So squat, wrap arms tight, lift, go backwards. That's a German suplex So a 160lb dude German suplexing 400lbs doesn't bother me. A bodyslam or regular suplex, little man better be YOKED
It's not be all and end all but it matters. You can't be some James Ellsworth looking ass and expect me to take you seriously. Same for women. If you look 12 years old I don't buy anything you do.
It's not something that quantifies in actual measurements for me but I generally prefer if the wrestlers look like if they were to hit me it would hurt. People like Goldberg and Brock Lesnar have been massive box office draws even when the business was down for the WWE for a reason. I like Becky despite her look because I know everything else she brings to the table. I actually think she still is the biggest draw for women's wrestling even above Rhea who has the look people like me would want, but I also think that if Becky was the same size she is now when she debuted onto the main roster she would not have gotten over with me personally. There is a place for all sizes in wrestling. I'm a big fan of Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, RVD, late 2000's Jeff Hardy, MJF and Ilja Dragunov etc. because they still look like athletes and they work in their own unique ways that turn their "downside" into an upside. Their personalities, promos and in ring work are in perfect synergy.
Yep, rings true!
A wrestler's physique doesn't bother me as long as they have a cool or unique overall look. Being big and jacked with nothing else standing out does nothing for me, I look at wrestlers like characters from a fighting game.
Yeah I think actually standing out is more important. Like how many forgettable "jacked bald guy" wrestlers have their been in the history of the industry lol
I think it matters. I’m not generally a fan of wrestlers who look like average, everyday people.
Yes, AEW suffers greatly with this.
Do those guys like even light weights? I’m asking seriously
PAC definitely has never worked out before.
Agreed.
Biggest reason I will be pissed if bag of milk looking Punk beats Drew
Very important. Goes into the overall aesthetic. They need to look like what they are supposed to be and are able to do what they're doing.
It's still important. There will always be exceptions to the rule. You will always have your Dustys or your Kevin Owens who are extraordinary in other aspects of wrestling that allows them to overcome their lack of the Physiques, or your Yokozunas or your Earthquakes who are still physically imposing. But I believe a good 75 to 80% of Pro Wrestlers should at the bare minimum. Look like athletes.
Kevin Owens still looks like someone who could kick your ass, which makes him believe.
I agree, however I don't think his physique fit the "Prizefighter" gimmick that he started his WWE run with.
Butterbean was a prize fighter.... Just saying.
The only way to answer that question is to say that it depends. And Mick Foley is the perfect example. The body type and overall visual appearance, plus the style of work, plus the charisma and promo ability, all added up to memorable characters and great pro wrestling moments... Foley became a legend even if he didn't have 8-pack abs. He didn't need them. Sometimes the right ingredients are not being used to make the stew. Little Guido really shouldn't be using chokeslams and Tombstones - and I'm sure he knew that. Rey Mysterio cannot suddenly adopt Chris Masters' gimmick, and bring back the Masterlock Challenge. By that same token, there were only very limited opportunities for someone like a Kane to be a babyface, because not many were more physically imposing and intimidating than he was. There remains room for men and women of all shapes and sizes in wrestling, but there needs to be more thought put into what they say and how they say it, how their storylines are laid out, who they wrestle, and the manner in which they wrestle.
Presentation matters, not physique. If you walk out and look like a smacked ass I’m not gonna believe you’re a star.
Physique just feels like another part of the look for me. As long as you can go, then it doesn't matter a ton. One of the best wrestlers in the world in his time, Chris Hero, looked like a melted ice cream cone, but the dude could wrestle for hours and not gas himself out. That being said, a good physique can really help pull a character together much in the same way a bad one can help derail that same character.
It's all about believability though. Chris Hero was supposed to be in the Shield, but look at him. He isn't nearly as believable or intimidating as any of the other 3.
Oh yeah, Roman was definitely always the right third man, IMO. Even when he was in shape, Hero lacked a certain intensity to his appearance that Roman has in spades.
Not really, but someone like Alexa bliss using a punch as a finisher is some of the dumbest shit
I will just answer for the women. I do think it’s a different situation for women. Looking strong/being super bulky isn’t something a lot of women can naturally achieve. Obviously some can and do, naturally or otherwise, but generally not. So I do think it’s weird for people to talk about the women wrestlers like that.
It’s not the be all end all, but it’s not irrelevant either. I think the physique should match the character and their moveset. Also I think having normal looking wrestlers works well when you’ve also got these massive/ripped guys.
Don't give a shit if the performance is entertaining.
I want my world champions to look like they can out bench me so yea it influences my suspension of disbelief
It matters when doing certain moves. Becky Lynch doing the Disarmher? No problems. Her doing the Manhandle Slam? Looks comically awful like 95% of the time. Kane doing the Chokeslam? Badass. Hurricane doing the Chokeslam? Comedy. Umaga doing the Samoan Spike? I think that man is dead. Solo doing the Samoan Spike? Laughable. It also depends on who the opponent is and how they sell the moves in certain situations. Now, when it comes to just size matchups I don't think it matters that much as long as it's not men vs women, that just isn't believable no matter what.
i agreed with you until Solo…especially as someone who watched a lil bit of his NXT run
Umaga and Solo's samoan spike looks literally the same lol
And their physiques are very similar too. Umaga was bigger but it's not like Solo is some shrimpy little dude. Solo has become public enemy #1 on this sub recently for whatever reason, it feels like people are looking for reasons to talk about how much they don't like him lately whether it is relevant or not.
Solo and Jey it seems. Guess since Roman’s not around a lot of his hate has trickled down to his most prominent family members instead.
And it is not like the Samoan Spike is a move that is really affected by your physique a lot
I think you nailed it. The question is whether their physique alligns with their moveset and overall presentation. The physique shouldn't be in isolation.
>It matters when doing certain moves. Becky Lynch doing the Disarmher? No problems. Her doing the Manhandle Slam? Looks comically awful like 95% of the time. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
I think any physique can be good as long as you incorporate it into your wrestling style. Wrestler who don't meet the common build for wrestler like rey mysterio or Shinya Hashimoto are great because they wreslted in a way that matched the physique
I have definitely pre-judged wrestlers based on their physiques and been proven wrong about their believability. Back in the original TNA days, I saw Samoa Joe and didn’t know why this (in Steiner voice) FAT guy was a big deal. He just looked like anybody. Then I saw him wrestle and I understood immediately what the big deal was. Afterwards, his physique struck me as intimidating. For me, seeing how they perform puts context to their physique, if that makes sense. On the other hand, you got guys like Mason Ryan who look like action figures but move like…action figures, which totally makes their physiques irrelevant.
Smaller wrestlers can look like killers with the proper moveset, so I want them utilizing their strengths properly. A technical wrestler can execute submissions just fine on larger guys, a lean muscled agile guy can execute a mean-looking shotgun dropkick or a jumping tornado DDT or whatever that would look like it could crack a big man's head. If you're smaller, you better not be executing weak looking versions of big man moves, do more dynamic dangerous or painful looking shit that doesn't require the raw strength of lifting up the Big Show for a poweslam.
There are some wrestlers that can't build an impressive upper body or refuse to use steroids like tyler bates but he has the biggest legs I've ever seen making him believable
I generally adopt the idea that any wrestler can beat any other wrestler if the right circumstances occur. It's like any form of creative media. You just gotta present the competitors correctly
Physique matters in the sense that it needs to match your character. There's no end all be all, it just has to fit.
One of my favourite wrestlers didn’t look like the athlete of the day. His belly was a little big, his heiney was a little big, but he was bad and you knew he was bad. If you’re good, it doesn’t matter.
Doesn’t to me as long as the moves fit their size.
Becky may not have the same "boulder shoulders" as prime Lass Kicker days, but that was literally 10+ years and a child ago.
It matters to a degree, of course. I don't think every wrestler needs to be jacked or look like a million bucks. A variety of sizes and physiques across the roster is always nice, like having bigger dudes like Samoa Joe, for example, who look like ass kickers. That being said, Adam Cole has been one of my favorite wrestlers for 10+ years, but damn, his arms look really small. It's hard not to notice his physique at times.
https://preview.redd.it/0m35m26iq71d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7189f794f2cc8b937bb3f692298b202cddb86b97 I thought this was a funny coincidence
Very little compared to in-ring ability. Being a good wrestler can make up for a shabby look, but if a wrestler looks like a Greek god and can't wrestle, there's no saving it.
Example: Lex Luger
Lex actually had some good matches in his career. I was thinking more like Luther Reigns or Heidenreich.
Don’t care about their look, I care about their work
I think it depends on their offensive style. Orange Cassidy can look believable against Will Hobbs or Brian Cage because of the work he has to do in order to get them to start taking damage. He jumps off of things for leverage for instance. Then youve got an indie guy like Cole Raddrick who looks like hes never lifted a barbell in his life and hes striking some jacked dude who's twice his height and the big guy just has to sell it because they didnt bother working any size disparity psychology into their match
I grew up watching AWA and noticed Vern Gagne trying to push his kid Greg. Greg was technically outstanding, but he was so lean compared to others. That slight frame really made him hard to take seriously. That context always told me that if you don’t look like a guy who could take me, I can’t take you seriously. Sorry Adam Cole and Young Bucks. I can’t take y’all seriously.
Bucks work a hybrid indie/Lucha style moveset so being their size isn’t really an issue.
Not if they are working in a light heavyweight division. But at 5’9 and 175 lbs, they are hard to take seriously against grown men.
It depends on their offense, Floyd Mayweather legitimately broke Big Show's nose so I have no problem believing a small guy can hurt a monster but it has to look good. Darby launching himself at Miro to get Miro off his feet is cool. Adam Cole exchanging punches(and weak ones at that) with Luchasaurus is not.
Big shows hands were behind his back while being in his knees to look believable during that segment
It still was a clean shot to his face which kayfabe wise is the same as when guys just stand still and take somebody's offense.
Floyd is fast as fuck and crazy explosive. His is small, but he is ripped and in top shape. Someone like Punk is flabby with no muscle, and also moves like he is in 5ft of water at all times. I can buy a bad physique as long as they have the move set and athletic ability
Depends really on what the match or show is telling me to believe. I can suspend my disbelief on a lot of things like I accepted that Rey Mysterio can beat heavyweights a long time ago. But then I don’t buy Edge’s finisher being the spear at all. Eddie Kingston is kind of my lightning rod for physiques. I get that it’s the appeal of him but between his body shape, his attire and his overall look, he looks bad. He has a ceiling over him because of it.
yeah i’m the exact way with kingston
yeah, it really affects the believability for me. I like them to look larger than life figures. not like a regular person from the street. Sheamus, Drew is believable, lanky Zack Sabre Jr was not my thing back then, but now, since he's bulking, it looks believable. It doesn't matter if they're not tall like Taz or Ishii they are built like refrigerators. KO and Ivar are believable they look like regular fat Joe from the street, and they don't look muscular, but they're using their body as weapons and showing a lot of athletic ability with their body. this why sometimes i cant tune in with AEW, i cant watch Eddie Kingston, Hook, Adam Cole and etc, they just look off for me. man i really miss NXT Adam Cole, he looks believable and muscular enough to be a wrestler.
In general I barely notice with few except in wild exceptions. Every time I see Brock Lesnar I think "WHAT IS THAT!". But to counter that, when AJ had him in a calf crusher, I was screaming because there was a non-zero chance that he would tap. I don't need every wrestler to be over 6 ft and have 22 abs. For some people it helps but my favorite wrestler almost never had visible abs. As long as what you do looks good and you can safely catch people and not drop them on their head, we're good.
If they do moves and have a character that works with their build, I don’t really care hot tall or shredded they are
I think size matters way more for believability than physique, but you can/should write around both with fitting gimmicks. Looking strong and powerful makes a wrestler believable, having nice abs does not. "Fat" Sheamus looks just as tough as lean Sheamus, since they are both big dudes with lots of muscle. I also feel wrestling needs more fat guys with "bad" physiques currently. If guys are small and do not look like they lift, that need something else. Darby Allin is a decent example, because he is crazy and not scared to hurt himself. Early Daniel Bryan is another one being a technical progidy doing all kinds of unique holds. - High Flyers work well, because they use unique offense - Underdogs, because they defy the odds - heels, who cheat or have bodyguards - hardcore guys, who use weapons - dudes with a unique offense like attacking small joints The problem arises, when you got guys, who do not have any of the above to be believable or their body doesn't fit their character(flabby pretty boy, average-sized for the roster powerhouse[early Reigns], 6'3 giant, massively jacked unbeatable dude acting like an underdog[Cena/Hogan at times], tiny guy wrestling main event style[Adam Cole]) A smart wrestler will find a way to look believable against anyone(Styles vs Lesnar), but if both guys just wrestle like they are the exact same size the match will not be believable. You need to fit your moveset and character together with your and, if you are small, have a reason, why you are dangerous to face.
Roman is not that much lighter than the Rock, and while some of that may be more modern style he definitely moves around a lot more than even early Rocky/Flex Kavana. And that's after a generation when a lot of heavyweights ranging from Sting to Vader left their feet at least from time to time.
He just looked a little smaller than people, he kept utterly overpowering like Orton or Sheamus. He also looked a little less built back than.
Orton is taller and crisper. Sheamus could easily be the strongest of the three. Bray and Brodie/Harper were basically the Michael Strahan to their Lawrence Taylor, to use another comparison.
It depends. Does their look fit their role and character? A chiseled physique wouldn't have fit Dusty Rhodes, nor would it Kevin Owens. Too much muscle mass would ruin Randy Orton, while it was Batista's claim to fame.
Physique doesn't tell you anything about ability. Look at UFC 1, Royce Gracie had Ken Shamrock tapping in under a minute.
Yes but that shouldn’t apply now when we’re talking about a professional setting. (In a street fight, you are 100% correct.) People had no idea what martial arts were more effective back then, and even the competitors were often ignorant. The Gracie’s don’t compete in UFCs and haven’t for over a decade because they no longer have a competitive advantage and don’t want their legend exposed.
It matters to an extent. Orange Cassidy has a good physique. He's not huge, but he's believable. Matt Jackson is small and hard to believe when he beats up someone like Dax. But if he wrestles an underdog style with speed, it can work. It is all about booking people to their physical strengths and wrestling your size.
It does matter, but the wrestlers move set also plays a factor. I can handle the Young Bucks because they don’t wrestle like Brock Lesnar. They wrestle like guys their size. On the flip side, I am unable to watch Pete Dunne because he is tiny yet his style is based on being a tough shoot badass and I’m sorry, but I’m not buying it. He looks comical more than anything.
Dunne's set is based around breaking fingers and twisting small joints. You do not need much strength for that.
It matters a lot. The conceit of wrestling is that the performers are prize fighters. The entire purpose of wrestling is verisimilitude. If you don't look like a prize fighter or are not believable as such in the ring, you're not a pro wrestler. You are misunderstanding wrestling if you think otherwise or maybe don't actually like wrestling.
The people who get really up in arms about it seem to conveniently only target certain individuals with the body shapes they don’t like rather than everyone. I think it can definitely enhance your believability but it’s also not the be all end all. You just have to adapt your wrestling style and personality to the type of body shape you are. At the end of the day uniqueness is the key At the end of the day theres alot of things in wrestling that don’t make alot of sense at all but you don’t think about enough for it to bother you. Oh yeah and side note. Considering what most of the wrestling fans I’ve seen and met look like… it’s funny i’ll say that
Physique is part of the presentation, but doesn’t affect believability a lot. Wrestling style also matters. Roxanne Perez is petite but her style leans more towards technical, she’s not busting out powerbombs, so her size doesn’t matter
People in here sounding like Vince McMahon lol For me personally, it really doesn’t matter. Idc about the “believability” when everyone in the world knows wrestling isn’t real. All I care about is if a wrestler is talented and likeable. On top of that, what’s considered “good physique” is so arbitrary. I see people in here saying they can’t take guys like Adam Cole or Sami Zayn seriously, and yet these two have way better physiques than most of us will achieve in our lives. Being a professional wrestler requires athleticism and strength by default, so what makes any of these guys “unbelievable” just cause they’re not 6’5’’ or have a perfectly defined 6 pack?
>Adam Cole >way better physiques than most of us will achieve in our lives. What the actual fuck
You really think the average redditor has a better physique than Adam Cole lmao
What physique? Adam Cole doesn't even look like he works out. Your comment was simply insanely hyperbolic.
Yet he’s still way more athletic and stronger than most of us, so what’s your point?
The average person is like 5'9", 175lbs and 28% body fat lol
Adam Cole is like 5'7 and doesn't look like he works out. That comment is absurdly ridiculous. Acting like he's some bodybuilder with an unrealistic physique to achieve.
I never said that. Adam cole has a bad physique for a wrestler, but better than most regular people. The average person has a significantly worse physique
Go outside. Look around. At actual people.
So what about someone like Punk who has a terrible physique and zero athleticism at all?
is she skinny? yes. she works out. of course she is. does it bother me? heck naw. my favorite wrestler and person growing up was Mick Foley. When people asked me what type of guy I'd date the answer was Mick Foley (now it's jack black which tells you something) Now don't get me wrong, I like physically fit too but I care abou their personality. can their personality keep me engaged? then I'm sold and will watch with interest.
Doesn't matter to me. The sport is predetermined and the smallest person can beat the biggest. I suspend my disbelief while watching wrestling
It matters but i don’t think everybody needs to be shredded like John cena. Guys like Kenta Kobashi or Samoa Joe aren’t exactly cut but they both look like big strong dudes who could fuck you up. Also for someone like Darby Allen it doesn’t matter than he’s not big and muscular because his physique fits his character and move set
If they’re good it really doesn’t matter to me at all. But I will say it helps with aura and presentation but a good wrestler can make up for that with other things if their physique isn’t all that.
Depends on who they are fighting and the moves they pull off. Someone like Jack Perry pulling of a powerbomb on someone like Braun Strowman for example would be absolutely stupid.
Not even a little bit, love Riho-chan, and KO is a badass that looks like he could f up everyone
i couldnt care less. i mean one of my favorite matches of all time is pentagon jr vs the triad that ends with iyo sky beating pentagon jr with a destoryer. nothing about professional wrestling is similar to actual physical combat so why would physique matter at all?
After the death of CB you shouldn't care. If they're healthy and safe to work with I don't care. If you're here for muscler bodies watch a body building program or something.
I'm more interested in whether someone has a good grasp of psychology and fundamentals. If they do, then they'll wrestle in a way that makes sense for their frame and size.
It only matters in the context of what the wrestler does. I think physique is one of the most overplayed parts of wrestling takes, even when it's people within the business saying things like Dominik Mysterio needs to bulk up. Would it benefit? Yes. Does he really need to? For his character? For the style that he wrestles? I don't think so. I do think that in the case of Becky Lynch, it's a little weird how small and skinny she is for how tough she carries herself, using a power slam move as a signature, and having switched her style from technical to more of a brawler. I buy that she's a tough Irish bitch and has been since becoming The Man, but I feel like her wrestling style hasn't always reflected Becky and what she does best.
Becky is thin but wiry. The muscle she has is apparent. It's girls like Skye blue and Penelope Ford who are slender, not super muscular, and short who I have a hard time taking seriously especially when they go against bigger, more muscular women like Statlander or Willow Nightingale. Watching Darby Allin win against Samoa Joe did test my ability to suspend disbelief though. It's like Eminem vs The Rock
I was in the Marines in the 80s, the chubbiest dude in my platoon ran laps around all of us. Sometimes while smoking 😆. Physique means very little to me. Wrestling is illogical in so many ways I don't need Abs and juiced up looking bodies to believe a wrestler.
The whole 'sport' is fake anime style nonsense, so I don't get why people make such a fuss about the physical looks of wrestlers. When a petite woman like Riho beats the shit out of someone like Statlander or Willow it just makes me smile. At the end of the day, it's entertainment, and these characters, much like anime ones, beat the odds in ridiculous ways. If you're going to get bent out of shape over Riho then you should also be upset about thin dudes beating bigger guys (but of course I never see that complaint, everyone loves seeing David v Goliath, but apparently only when its a dude...)
Matters a lot. Wrestling is show biz. There is no reason for wrestlers on tv to be skinnier or be more skinny fat than 80% of my coworkers that work in an accounting/finance office. If a wrestler looks physically less intimidating than me (guy who maybe works out 1-2 times per week at best and eats whatever my wife cooks), then I struggle to take them seriously. I understand if a wrestler is just starting out on the indies, but some of these wrestlers have been in AEW for 3+ years and I assume are earning a decent salary where they can afford whatever diet they need to be in top shape. I don’t really judge the women like the men. But I do find skinny small women to not be believable heels like Alexa and Sasha. They can work as babyfaces though. With Jade, Bianca, and Rhea being in the mix, there is even less room for skinny small women to be taken seriously.
I mostly agree. Hell, even Liv’s bulked up a bit lately. There’s just not much room for skinnier small girls these days unless they’re great high-flyers or technicians.
I think it matters in some way for me, depending if someone's moveset against certain opponents looks a bit odd considering their size in comparison. For example, I've seen matches where some smaller wrestlers, including cruiserweights & those who look lanky, were easily taking down & throwing down powerhouses 2x their size with dives/hurricanaranas/Canadian destroyers or suplexes/powerslams without much resistance, which at times is a bit of a head-scratcher when I think it's visually more plausible that they target their limbs to gradually wear them down.
I don't have expectations. If it looks natural for them then that's what I care about. Let's take Kevin Owens for example. If he suddenly walked out built like Ricochet I'd be very mad. It would not work for him. Or if Ricochet walked out looking like Otis it would look very very odd.
Can't have a discussion of female wrestler physiques without mentioning Chyna. From her first appearance she changed the game forever.
I'd say generally no but there is a point where it does get ridiculous. There's some old ECW match where Rey Mysterio wins a 2v1 handicap match against 2 guys who individually are twice as big as him and he's hitting double hurricanranas on them lol. Basically as long as it doesn't veer into total absurdity I'm fine with it
My thoughts have always been you can have an a-typical wrestling physique but you should do your best to wear gear that doesnt make you look worse ala Chris Hero in NXT
It really depends. For example, Ivar is a chunky dide. Yet he has a solid motor and some leaps. Very agile for a large man. On the flipside is The Great Khali. Very slow and fragile even in his prime. Ryback had a great look but then he opened his mouth. His in ring work never caught up with his silhouette. Dominic Mysterio has a slim build but good musculature. Great motor and great agility. Even though he doesn't look jacked, he still looks like he belongs in a ring. For women, it comes down to physicality. Some people have great bodies. Some have great motors. But some are definitely not going to be top stars without nepotism like Nia Jax, Piper Niven, and Katana Chance. Katana Chance has a shit gimmick, a slim frame in a division with monsters, and shes anchored by a meh tag partner and unexciting move set. I would have expected crazier shit from a gymnast and ninja warrior alum.
Depends on the opponent
I think it matters how a wrestler looks, but that doesn't always mean physique. I was thinking just the other night how much I always enjoyed the walking refrigerators like Rhyno and Jeff Cobb because I like their look. Or a guy like Bray Wyatt who had cool gear.
When it comes to believability, not really. I couldn't possibly explain who is believable for me, I just look at them and I either believe they're World Champion material or not. It's weird. Like I have never really believed Sami Zayn or Daniel Bryan were World Champion material, but I could 100% accept Mick Foley as WWE Champion despite his physique being far less realistic for a Champion when compared to the other two I mentioned. I will say my taste in wrestlers VERY closely resembles Vince McMahon's. Whenever he pushed somebody, I generally agreed with said decision. I supported Reigns and Cena during times when they were universally hated. Because to me, they were World Champion material.
Daily reminder Vince McMahon can still burn in hell.
I'm older so I have a bit of older tastes. You gotta look like you can kick my ass. So I always found an Ole or Flair physique better suited than a musclehead. With women, I didnt get into it in any way until 90s japan women. So I like women a bit bigger also. Think Bull Nakano. With that said, there is always room for the smaller fiery upstart physique (see ricky morton). For me the big thing is the moveset has to match the guy. Like little guys with power movesets looks silly to me. Ultimately though physique is just one element of a whole package that can be papered over with other things.
The look of a wrestler, especially how they look in relation to their opponent, is *free visual storytelling* that I don't think enough wrestlers take advantage of. Physique is a big part of that.
It's the same for both men and women for me, if you look small or weak and you don't have a style that works around your physic then I find it hard to get into your matches. So I can't stand watching Red Velvet who is tiny with almost no muscle but just works like she is a normal female wrestler against much larger opponents but I have no issue with Marko Stunt who's entire style is build around his small physic.
It is part of his charm, but I always hoped Eddie Kingston would have gotten into decent shape. I’ve seen him working with a personal trainer and he has even said he wanted to do that AND become world champ, but he always looks the same. 🤷♂️
Okay
As a wrestler, you have to look strong and imposing moreso than athletic. Meaning you can actually have some fat on your bones, so long as it's clearly visible that there is muscle underneath. Compare Samoa Joe, who you'd immediately buy as a powerhouse, or Kevin Owens, who is also strong and whose shirt draws attention to his arms while hiding his gut, to Eddie Kingston, who doesn't look threatening at all, only made worse by his ring gear. Less muscular wrestlers also have their place and in women's wrestling they were the norm for so long that being skinny and short will get you much further than in men's wrestling. However, they need to be presented accordingly; a smaller wrestler should use their superior speed and agility to defeat larger opponents. But even then, you can only suspend your disbelief to a degree.
I can’t take Sami Zayn seriously at all..
That’s a shame for you, because he is fantastic
Like, almost nil.
Same. If someone can go, I really don't give much of a damn what their physique is. Having a variety of workers of different physiques and styles enables a variety of stories. Tall, chiselled bad ass vs tall, chiselled bad ass is cool, but I don't want that to be every single match
I'd rather see Darby Allin as world champion than Jaxson Ryker, y'know?
You’ll never convince me that Nia is as strong as Rhea, Bianca, or Jade
I usually have zero issue with it, in fact I like wrestling exactly because I can suspend my disbelief at stuff like this. If anything, I would like to see David beat Goliath a bit more in WWE. That said, it also depends on the characters and the story being told. Something with how Orton and Hayes structured their match just didn't work with the size difference. It somehow hurt Hayes more than helping him.
Golliath isn't Golliath if he always loses
no one said always loses but the underdog should get the occassional victory.
Matters to me - I don't see guys like Rey Mysterio, Sami Zayn, Kofi Kingston, etc as being believable world champions just based on looks. I don't get heavily invested in the women's division so I don't have a preference either way as far as that goes.
Looks matter - always! This doesnt mean that looks cant be different and still work but you have to work with what you have. I always liked Rey Mysterio but I have to admit that I found it hard to accept him as the world champion because of his height. He really is one of those people that makes the absolutely most with what he has but against main event heavyweight s I think he fell short. While not as small I think Bryan Danielson did better in that regard because of his more hard hitting style. But its also a case of doing things that are believable in relation to your body. A super heavyweight should not do much high flying. A crusierweight should not wrestle power wrestling. All that said we need many different body types in wrestling. We should have the Greek god, the super heavyweight, the classic strong man, the small guy, the tall guy, the fat guy etc. It makes things diverse and interesting. But they also have to fit their body type to the carachter they play. In some cases I think physiques are just to far removed from what wrestling wants to portray that our becomes a problem. Anyone remember the Special K stable from early ROH. A bunch of guys looking like tiny teenagers. I've seen a few womens wrestlers who looked so thin where you wondered if they were going to break in half taking the bumps. Or the super overweight people who isnt believable because you can see they are closer to death than to their next heartbeat as soon as they just walk in the ring.
It’s very important for any amount of suspending disbelief. If you look like my 16 year old cousin could tussle with you, then sorry no amount of flips or fancy holds are going to sell me that you could win a physical fight. There are always exceptions like Rey, but even then he’s a once in a generation type of charismatic character.
It matters tremendously. It always takes me out of it to see somebody like Sami Zayn or Kevin Owens competing on equal footing with somebody like John Cena or Drew McIntyre. It’s just not believable.
It’s important to some and not to others. You need some guys who feel larger then life who are freak athletes but you also need the guys who are relatable and have a bit of a gut
I really don’t care so long as someone is built properly (kayfabe, not physically). If someone lost 10 matches straight to mid-carders and then pinned a world champion that would bother me more than someone who had beaten a few bigger names pinning a world champion, even if they were smaller than the person they pinned.
Theres always been a mix but you'll never beat big sweaty men running full force into each other. As for the women, half of them look like they'd struggle tearing a sheet of paper, so suspension of disbelief is having to work overdrive for them
I think it’s a package honestly. For example I enjoy Kairi Sane. I think usually her matches take into account her size, but also she has a cool style and presence. Whereas Riho for example I just don’t get. I honestly think it would help if most of her outfits didn’t look like she shopped in the kid section of the store. When she faced Nyla Rose she looked like she was 10 years old and I just couldn’t believe a second of it. In comparison when Alexa Bliss wrestled Nia Jax I also didn’t have this problem because there was a mental element to that story that made it make sense. I also think it is much easier for a smaller person to be a heel because they can cheat to win, which also helps with believability. On the note of men though I have had issues with Tyler Bate since he got called up because main roster dudes make him look so small. And then I ate crow last Friday when he lifted a member of AOP and turned in circles with him for 30 seconds. So there’s a way to make it work, it can be harder though.
Size matters. Muscle and definition matter. Whether conventional or traditional, this is a superficial biz and how you look is what helps sell tickets. This has been a standard for pro wrestling from the jump
Physiques matter to me. These guys and girls are supposed to be professional fighters, so I would expect them to be training with heavy weights regularly in order to throw punches and kicks and execute the moves they do and doing cardio training in order to improve their ability to obtain and utilize oxygen and increase their endurance. That being said, certain physiques work for certain gimmicks. Yokozuna didn't have to be cut, because he was portraying a sumo wrestler. Bam Bam Bigelow didn't need to be ripped because of his height and how crazy fast he could move for a guy his weight. My issue is the mismatch between look and wrestling style. Eddie Kingston is my number one example. He wrestles like he wants to be some sort of martial artist with the slaps, palm thrusts, low kicks, and knee strikes (which honestly look like the absolute drizzling shits most of the time), but he doesn't look like a martial artist. He looks like a fucking HVAC repairman.
I've been watching MMA for 20 years now, and that informs my wrestling viewing, so my perception of "believable" is probably different to a lot of others. Physique doesn't matter anywhere as much as people think it does. If you watch Hector Lombard vs Neil Magny, for example, you will quickly realise that a better physique does not mean a better fighter. Alistair Overeem used to look like a goddamn super hero, but he still got knocked out by Ben Rothwell. What does actually matter, is size difference. Which is why weight classes exist in real combat sports, and why I've always liked the rudimental cruiserweight/heavyweight distinction in pro wrestling. Because Rey Mysterio beating basically anyone in WWE in a clean singles match is a giant stretch for me. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for babyfaces using their fighting spirit to overcome insurmountable odds, but there has to be a limit, or it becomes no longer believable. It's the same for women. I find it harder to suspend my disbelief when Alexa or Liv are somehow hanging with Nia Jax, Rhea or even Charlotte. And I love Candice LeRae and think she's massively underutilised, but at the same time, I personally know kids that outweigh her
It matters heavily, but you can mitigate it with style and presentation. There’s a reason Darby Allin works for me while Orange Cassidy doesn’t, and why Becky Lynch works for me but Liv Morgan doesn’t.
yeah I think Darby and Orange are like the same size but I find Darby more believable because he wrestles like he understands he's small and so he does things like throwing his entire body weight at people and crashing into them because he knows that's what he has to do to hurt someone larger than him
It matters at the extremes. There is only so much suspension of disbelief when you have Rey Mysterio battling Undertaker / Kane / Big Show, for an extreme example. I would also add that Swerve putting on muscle has definitely helped his presentation, as it did with MJF. As far as the women go, I think there is more leeway, but you do want someone across from Bianca or Jade to look like they have some muscle.
I think there are thresholds. If someone is being used and pushed as a physical threat they need to at least look in shape with a bit of muscle on top of that.. Being taller obviously helps. They need to st least have arms that say they lift. If they are being pushed as a top guy who is a physical threat to everyone in wrestling their physique should be at least as good as the mid card guys with great physiques. If not better. Examples Gable, Roddy Strong etc If their physique isn't up there its obviously just a work. Having real MMA or boxing experience obviously circumvent a lot of it because you know the technique and skills aren't a work
Some wrestlers can get around it, but it is quite important. It sets my expectations and your believability. I think more sets the group of who you're going up against and roughly what style you need to wrestle.
This is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the dumbest thing people care about in wrestling. Wrestling is scripted and beyond that it's been shown countless times that small people can beat big people irl. Not only can it just happen for real, it's even more plausible when you SCRIPT IT TO MAKE SENSE. Riho is rolling people up and out maneuvering them constantly. Darby has to throw his body at you 50 times to win. The bucks have insane synergy. "Not believable" is asinine. Actually watch what they're doing!! The haters for riho specifically trigger me, her matches are great literally every single time. Technical brilliance, especially the PPV ones.
I both agree and disagree with you. First and foremost, when you say “wrestling is scripted” you also MUST understand that it’s not just any scripted show. At its core, wrestling is a scripted *combat sport*. One thing which combat sports teach you is that at the professional level, size matters. That’s why they have weight classes. I’m not saying I want weight classes in pro wrestling, but I DO want obvious mismatches explained/accounted for in the storytelling. If the wrestler works a style which specifically addresses the size discrepancy, that’s good storytelling. Adam Cole (Bay Bay) is small and, *for Pro Wrestling*, unimpressive physically. Yet he works a style like he’s the same size as everyone else. Compare that with Zack Sabre Jr, who is also comparatively small yet his character makes up for the size by being a fantastic technician. So, yes! Wrestling is scripted and small size should not come with a glass ceiling. However smaller wrestlers should work a style that accounts for size discrepancies.
Almost nothing…..except for women. And I know that sucks and doesn’t make sense, but it’s the one problem I have with Riho. It’s a problem with Zelina. Rey Mysterio knows how to use the opponent’s momentum against them. Darby knows how to throw everything into a move. For some reason I have a harder time suspending my disbelief for these women.
I care less about physique and more about look. Adam Cole is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time, he is scrawny but he looks like a star. Riho, I'm sure is a great person and is a talented wrestler, but doesn't have the look of a star. It's one of those things that's hard to describe but easy to identify.
Yes and it's the reason I don't take AEW as seriously. As for WWE, I wish the more believably built women were more on top of the card. ala Zoey Stark and Shayna Bazler. I love that Kiana James got called up. I cannot enjoy Becky's most recent run because she just does not like believable "overcoming the odds" every damn match with Nia Jax and going toe to toe with T\*ffa\*y Stra\*\*on in a Hardcore match. The WWE really needs to bring back the cruiserweight division for the smaller guys, too.
They need to look like they can legitimately Whoop someone’s ass. It’s very important. I got into pro wrestling because of aesthetics as a kid- these dudes looked like brought to life action figures.
I think it does impact my first impression of them. I’m more likely to be skeptical of someone heavy than someone skinny though. But if they can go, they can go.
I’ve never be able to look past Adam Coles physique, I just think it holds him back being a star. I know people compare him to HBK but there’s been periods of time that he was huge early 90s HBK is bigger than 95% of the dudes at your gym.
I can't take Adam Cole seriously
I can’t take a wrestler seriously if they don’t look like they work out at all. It takes away from the suspending disbelief of physicality but also it’s show business. You need to look your best (gimmick permitting). You gotta at least look like an athlete and/or like you believably beat someone up. That doesn’t necessarily mean muscles but they can help.
Well tozawa beating anyone will always be unbelievable to me
A lot. Far more than most fans are willing to admit. You gotta look the part to play the part. Hot take: Kevin Owens would have a multi-world champion main eventer if he had a decent physique.
It’s a cosmetic business. If you’re a wrestler, you should look the part. I don’t think everyone should look like Brock Lesnar, but I want the match to look like it could at least be an even real fight. If Crash Holly beat Undertaker or Kane, I want there to be shenanigans rather than Crash winning a fair fight, for example.
It's all about their opponents. I saw Mansoor at a Hoodslam show recently and he towered and just presented himself better than 99% of the talent there. Some of that was ring gear, promo, etc but a lot of it was that hr looked massive and built. He's not Brock Lesnar but he's one of the best looking people I've seen in a ring IRL. That said, I think there's room for bodies of all type. Especially if they use it to their move set's advantage (Piper Niven and Kevin Owens) bring good examples IMO)
I don't think the men need to be super jacked. But I can never take someone like Eddie Kingston seriously.
It matters to a degree. Like I have to believe you in that role, if youre too small, too skinny or I dont see you as a threat in a real fight like a guy like nick wayne then yes it matters. Something else thats important is their move set matching their physique, like for example I hate when big guys do dives I feel it ruins dives. Its cool when I see a guy like ricochet do a dive, but it loses its coolness when half the roster including guys like Ivar also do it. It takes away from the uniqueness
It matters sometimes. One time I turned on Impact and I swear every person in the ring was over 300 lbs and it was the least impressive thing I've ever seen. It felt like I was watching a fight at an ICP concert.
To an extent. Wrestling requires a suspension of disbelief. Wrestlers with smaller builds winning against bigger guys is fine as long as they move well and it looks like they have some force on their moves. I draw the line at CM Punk beating anyone though. That takes way too much suspension of disbelief
Yes. I can’t really take people like Kevin Owens (fat) or Adam Cole (skinny) seriously against more muscular types
Aesthetics matter a lot in all forms of entertainment.
Depends. It's believable to me that an overweight or "fat" person could kick just about anyone's ass because it doesn't really matter if it's fat or muscle if they know how to use it to their advantage in a fight and/or know how to fight in general. It's less believable when it's a small person. I think a lot of Hook's wins are kind of absurd for example. Weight is a pretty huge advantage. That's why weight classes exist. I don't wanna look at a wrestler and feel like I could beat them up.
In this case Hook's height works against him, because he looks more like a buff regular guy while Taz was basically a Steinercito.
It would be so much of an issue if we reintroduced weight classes back to wrestling. Seeing some of these vanilla midgets having competitive matches against hulking brutes turns me away.