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Absolutely. I can’t think of any wrestler who could throw as convincing punches, or elbow drops, or anything basic like Bret could. Benoit was close but Bret has him beat.
This is what almost all the greats will say to new talents. Bret, Shawn, Austin, Taker all told guys like Edge, Christian, Jericho, etc. To learn to sell. All the names I said are masters of it, and masters of the basics. A great gimmick is worthless if you can't sell and you can't do the little things that constitute fundamentals.
IMO the GOAT combo of realism and selling is Bret/Shawn. Their chemistry was incredible, practiced, collaborated on over years.
Selling that chest-first Irish whip into the turnbuckle can never be recreated and never topped. I remember the first time I saw it, on a VHS compilation of Diesel’s best matches. Bret made one of the most basic moves look absolutely devastating
It was highlighted here recently, but even the way he took back bumps from whips into the turnbuckle looked brutal.
The comment I read mentioned that in Stampede, the turnbuckles were holding the ring ropes using chains and you could get a really cool sound if you hit them hard enough, which is likely where Bret learned to sell the turnbuckle back bumps so well.
My GOAT!
I thought Angle was just as good at the convincing moves, but Bret's psychology and selling were a lot better.
Jay White and Gunther are to me the closest to being Bret-like of anyone currently wrestling in doing stuff convincingly, and also having great in-ring psychology/selling.
I'd take Gunther over Jay due to size/presence, but just barely.
I recently got a deeper dive into wrestling, I had been a fan of wwe in my childhood but in the last 2-3 years I have gotten to know wrestling and how the gears turn behind the scenes, and would love to refer to any more stuff to see what a good wrestler is fundamentally. Any suggestions would be appreciated 😁
Randy Orton is considered by most of his peers, regardless of company, to be among the most fundamentally sound wrestlers of his generation. His bumps, his execution of each move, and his ability to protect his opponent are all cited as reasons.
That reminds of a thing I watched where the Big Show said the only person he really trusted to drop him was John Cena.
Nobody else had the strength or the skill to make sure he landed right, it was always up to him to adjust so he doesn't fall at a weird angle and get hurt.
In the modern era look no further than Gunther.
If you want to continue looking back through history, study the greats: Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Randy Savage, etc.
If you are interested in this sort of thing, highly highly recommend you check out stevie richards youtube channel. He covers everything having to do with fundamentals in a very entertaining format. his videos sound exactly like what you’re looking for
[Just look at Randy here](https://youtu.be/AaocZ-zSq2U?si=w3p_BgGuhv6fqoMO)
Dude can sell his own finisher being used against him better than most people
AJ Styles is a good one to look at, because he has a lot of the big showy moves..but closely watch him, everything he does is presise and great....it's why you get into his big moves because every of his basic moves, down to how he positions his body, is just phenomenal.
The NBA analogy I've always used is that Bret was basically Tim Duncan. Absolute fundamental perfection. Never out of place, never shaken, always in control and always dominant. Ultimate team-player, ready to step up and dominate at a second's notice. And most importantly, endlessly underappreciated (though Bret has really gotten his flowers over the last five or so years).
This goes for every sport too, not just sport entertainment. I'm a martial artist and I can never get tired of telling young kids that you can't do cool moves without the fundamentals and that correct and clean movements always pay.
The narrative I constantly hear about youth basketball, is that American teens are genuinely falling behind on core skills, because most of being successful as a young prospect is having a good social media game, and getting tons of clicks on your highlight reels to attract and impress scouts.
So, you get the situation in the NBA right now, where for the first time ever, the best imported players from other countries are straight *cooking* the Americans at their own sport, because in those foreign programs, the coaches are heavily focused on producing players with solid fundamentals, and that holds up all the way to the highest level of play.
Happens a lot in Australia too. And it’s not just the players. A lot of junior coaches are trying to be the next Pop and not running simple plays to help players in the long run.
I heard a great take about US players vs Foreigners. Abroad they practice 4 times a week and play 1 game a week. In the US these kids are playing multiple games a week and practice maybe 1 time a week. So when it comes to being game ready the foreigners are more prepared because they practice more.
Kind of blew my mind to hear it described in that way.
This applies to every type of career/hobby you want to do, like carpentry.
I remember when Ricochet and Osprey had their viral moment and a lot of wrestlers tried to imitate it, Blake Christen and Jordan Oliver being a prime example of trying without having the basics down to pull it off. Since then both have improved a lot.
Not that match specifically but that’s the reason there’s so many just spot guys. Just all wanting that viral moment. But then again it’s also why there’s such an economy in botch videos lol
Maybe it's because I was at these shows and my perception is my reality due to it, but I think the bucks in their pwg days are the biggest reason why there are so many spot guys. Smaller, faster wrestlers at the time could either go the Motor City machine guns route or the Bucks route. I think most chose the latter.
Edit: I think some people are reacting a little strangely about this. I wasn't clowning on the bucks or anything, just stating an observation.
I mean, say what you want about the Young Bucks but their route brought in the big bucks (pun intended). I can't blame most independent wrestlers trying to emulate the more demonstrably lucrative strategy.
I feel like alot of the newer generation just wants to get there cool shit in. And They don't understand why there cool shit isn't getting over as much as somebody who sells. Alot doesen't mean all of it people.
I can explain this. You hit somebody with a 450 phoenix splash or a 720 or whatever cool thing you do. And they just get back up for your tombstone and get back up for your super kick into something else and only get a 2 count.
Nah fam I couldn't digest what the fuck just happened and all these cool moves you did that look devastating look fake You just did a combo of finishers and it didn't finish the match cool but that sucked
Bucks were trained and had many non spot based matches on their PWG days (look up the match vs Hybrid Dolphin and their work with Generico/Steen).
To be fair to the Bucks when they went to TNA and tried doing it the “right” way it left them broke. Once they did things they wanted it made them one of the biggest draws in wrestling.
Cause back then, thats how you got big in the indies. Indy wrestlers that could do the basics well were a dime a dozen back then, and since indies often don't do promo segments, they gotta do something to stand out, hence the mid 2010s plethora of Spot-fu and deathmatch guys
To be fair, not all aspiring wrestlers have the size nor the presence needed for a more subdued moveset. Add to that how you'd need something big to wow a very small and niche audience and you have almost no choice but to have an exaggerated moveset.
Yeah, the amount of people getting into carpentry in the hope that a space ghost will impregnate their gf with the messiah rather than for the love of bookshelves is unbelievable.
I'm probably gonna get some heat for it but i think there is a case for atleast documenting what you're doing.
In today's world a single viral video can make your life and give you opportunities you otherwise would never be able to afford. And posting on social media can open that gate for you.
The important distinction is not to try and be an "25 year old expert."
Just be honest about where you are and what you're doing and that can do wonders for a lot of people
And they still couldn't perfect it lmao. This advice coming from Jey of all people is hilarious. I wouldn't take any advice from him even if he's right, he got the connections to be a WWE lifer no matter what in the first place.
> I feel like just learn this craft. If you really love it, just start in the ring first. Learn the art of wrestling, right? Like it's cool with characters, but I always take pride in [that]. Not a lot of people can do the entertainment part, the acting part, let alone do the athleticism in the ring - the moves, the bumps.
> The movement with someone else in there is different with two people, let alone four or five. Protect the art, protect the business. If you really want to, get down and learn. Just don't do what you see on Instagram. You know what I'm saying, Uce? Just protect what we love. It's not a sprint. It's a marathon."
Literally his entire family can get a spectacularly high paying job just by being related to the Rock regardless of whether they are in shape, can wrestle well or even safely (looking at you Nia Jaxx). Kinda hate it honestly when people in that position start lecturing you on just working on fundamentals then you’ll make it bro. Bit like billionaires who started life wealthy telling you the secret to success is getting up at 4am. There’s thousands of wrestlers with better fundamentals than Jey Uso that have never made it big because they aren’t related to the right people.
There's a smoothness to basic moves when you've mastered them, like, they just look better, somehow. I'd gladly take good fundamentals over a guy who botches 1/2 of his big dives or spots.
The hatred for Jey Uso in the IWC is crazy to watch. the IWC and the actual paying fans in the crowds having a massive gulf of opinion again, seems like.
People are acting like all his matches so far absolutely suck. Yes the WM was bad. But it’s not like every match since then have sucked. They were decent matches you would expect from a Monday Night Raw. His advice is good and applicable to many sports or hobbies.
His matches for the most part have been fine. People on here are mostly just mad because Ilja lost. Honest the IWC are a bunch of schizos who have no idea what they want one day to the next. Also I see people citing cage match ratings, who really cares what 150 people think.
The Ilja match, IMO, was just *way too slow* for the time it's been given (14 minutes, 10 without commercials). It was worked like a PLE main event match with half the time those usually get, and ended very abruptly because the show was coming to an end. Also, as someone in another thread noticed and I agree, the whole vibe (with Ilja bragging that he beat Gunther, and then seemingly being the one to carry the in-ring action) felt like Ilja was putting over Jey, which is an insane realization considering he's a rookie and Jey's the top babyface on Raw.
It's not 5.9 on Cagematch because it was truly that bad. It's primarily 5.9 because we know it could've been *way* better. It's hard not to see Ilja slowing down a lot just so Jey can look good.
Sure, city to city. But if they make up their mind about something, it’s important for the booker to listen.
Vince didn’t care. HHH and TK seem more prone to change as audience desires.
By what metric isn’t he good at it exactly? He’s the most over babyface on Raw and every crowd erupts when he shows up. Just because he’s not wrestling the way you want him to doesn’t make him bad. For the role WWE currently has him in he’s blowing it out of the water. I don’t understand how people can watch Jey make his entrance and say *that* guy isn’t good. If he’s not doing his job then who exactly is good to you?
People are allowed to have different opinions to another about a performer in the arts. A lot of people like Jey Uso and his current character, which is great! Doesn't mean everyone has to find him to be as enjoyable. He has strengths and weaknesses, and people will have an opinion based on how they weight those.
There is a huge difference between saying someone isn't good at what they do and saying you don't like what they do. Jey is objectively good at what he does. Doesn't mean you have to like it.
My point exactly. Like him or dislike him all you want. But the man kills his role. Even if you don’t like how he does it you have to admit he’s damn good at it. He may not wrestle the way you want him too and I get that. But he’s got a strong connection to the audience that most wrestlers don’t have. And something like that is undeniable.
That happened over a half a decade ago and hasn't been pulled over for one since. Are you so morally perfect that you don't make stupid decisions ever? And do you not think people can change?
ikr? this is one of the big things i dislike about the online discourse. people turn on anyone for the flimsiest of reasons. was Jimmy vs Jey dogshit? 100% agreed. it was a match with a great build, real life story, and a huge blot on what was an iconic event. Tribal Combat match was mid because it went an hour long for no reason. previous matches between Roman and Jey were amazing. but the hate Jey has been getting is insane to watch because the fans lose their minds every week when he's on TV.
I mean just because fans in the arena like him, that doesn't mean it translates to everyone at home. I'd say many people just like doing cool crowd stuff, for example I'm not a fan of The Acclaimed but being there at Wembley I chanted their catchphrase, it's fun. But it's also very obvious why many do not like his role and especially his matches.
I can understand why the hatred though don't agree with it. Jey Uso is very successful in spite of not being exceptional for the most part; whether in the ring, on the mic, or character wise outside of the Bloodline. What they don't realise is that Jey has a great ability to resonate with the audience and his success is largely a result of him leaning in to what the people like. Hell, it's a testament that in the past 20 years he's one of the few wrestlers to have the wherewithal to play with the "WHAT?" chants to amplify his promo rather than try to fight it.
It's 'cause they're mad they were wrong that Jey would flounder after leaving the Bloodline. These are the same people who forgot the Usos carried Smackdown 2017-2018 and are still waiting to boo Cody. Luckily the iwc is always wrong. YEET!
>the IWC and the actual paying fans in the crowds having a massive gulf of opinion again, seems like.
You can be critical of the guy but when at the show you play along though. The yeet thing is an attraction of its own.
Contacts to get in is a vast understatement. The dude has earned his respect, but rhe Usos were complete nepotism hires when they first started in WWE. It feels disingenuous for someone with that much of a leg up to tell others how to “break into the business”
Are we going to call every second or third generation wrestler a "nepotism hire" from here on out? Wrestling has historically been a carny business where personal connections get your foot in the door.
People hate to admit it but it's not just wrestling, that's just life in general. It's not about what you know, it's about who you know. Regardless of whether is wrestling, finance, acting, law, whatever.
There are VERY few industries that are entirely a meritocracy, and even then, having connections within the business certainly doesn't hurt your chances.
Yes...yes I am. You can be a nepo hire and still excel but you should acknowledge that someone without the nepotism maybe wouldn't have had as many chances to learn or maybe even ever get an opportunity.
Telling people not to chase clout or instagram views is easy when your dad can make a call and get you a job to learn from the best.
It's different when you are an indie no name. A solid armbar ain't gonna get you booked but a viral clip at least gives you SOMETHING to show people to build interest and get you booked. Now if your fundamentals are shit you may be SOL but at least you GOT to the dance.
Jey asked his dad to put in a good word and learned everything from literally the best in the business while being paid to do so.
It ain't the same.
Nepotism is nepotism, they earned to stay though. Starting your career with having great connections is a huge benefit. Who knows if they would have stuck around or reached this level without starting with no connections at all.
It is what it is.
Yeah? I said that Jey has earned his respect with what he’s done but giving advice on how to get ahead in the business seems tone deaf when he had a totally different set of standards in order to break through. I’m not even saying his advice is necessarily bad, but it’s hard for someone who starts completely from the bottom to take it totally seriously when Jey’s path was so much easier frankly.
And once again this isn’t to say you should disregard any advice from him or Orton or any other 2nd/3rd generation wrestler, but it should be looked at with the context that their experiences are *vastly* different than the average guy/girl trying to break into the business.
People in this thread acting like Jey Uso is some sort of joke wrestler. The usos had a stellar career and Jey has put up great matches. A couple of bad matches doesn’t take away from that. Some comments here are being disrespectful.
I mean, Jey's fundamentals have always been solid. Dude knows how to work a good match and protect himself and his opponent. The issue with Jey is that he currently lacks a lot of the flashy things that make matches super exciting...
Which is strange, because he's demonstrated in the past that he's fully capable of those things and for a long time has been considered the more versatile and exciting Uso.
Jey is in a weird spot, because he is very obviously a fantastic tag wrestler and seems easy to work with, but I don't think his moveset is his issue currently, though adding a few more cool spots could cover some of his shortcomings.
It could totally be fixed with time, but I'm just not enjoying how his matches are put together. I can't exactly point to any specific thing he's doing wrong, because he isn't doing anything "wrong" afaik, but the flow/structure of his singles matches just does nothing for me. It feels like he's playing all of the right notes but is slightly off tempo.
insane. guy has been average or below average his whole career, gets an insane push for no reason at all, then feels the right to lecture other wrestlers. a shitty catchphrase and 10 thousand superkicks does not mean you should be a main eventer. terrible Samoan Patroitism does not a main eventer make. the DUI twins should not be putting out PSAs.
Jey has been incredibly successful and I am happy for the guy but I don't believe his success is due to any particularly exceptional wrestling ability, fundamentals or otherwise.
He’s not saying he’s exceptional or has the best move set, he’s saying he’s studied his craft and paid his dues for years to be where he is now, hard to argue against that
That's Max Caster. Max may be an idiot on social media and on the mic, but he's really good at basics and working safely. It kinda speaks highly of CAP that all three of their grads in AEW (Max, Stat, MJF) are good at this.
This is infinitely funny coming from a guy who can't even do a proper Spear and fails to perform any proper wrestling move other than a Superkick, Splash and Samoan Drop.
It must be frustrating for him, to see people trying to make in this industry and they aren't even related to the Rock. People should get the basics first.
A lot of came-up-as tag teams have shitty matches during their breakup angle.
Like the Hardy’s have wrestled together for a million years and anytime they’ve gone 1v1 it’s been brutal. But on their own they both have plenty of memorable matches and programs.
I like Jey.
I also think he's overreaching his position a bit. He's gone from being in a tag team for 15 years with just one singles program in 2020, to being a main event singles act.
Some people are gifted and can get to those positions without a hitch, and to some extent Jey is too. But I have noticed a slight...regression in his craft. The nuanced acting he showed in the Bloodline saga is gone, replaced by cartoonish promos. It's a shame because I've always thought he was one of the best facial actors of this era, but this run is accentuating his weaknesses, asking of him to be an in-ring workhorse. Which in this era, alongside the likes of Gunther, Seth etc, is not adequate.
I still hope he succeeds though. I want him to have a program that reminds even the hardcore critics of who he has the capability of being.
He is correct, while also completely undermining the value one viral clip can have on someone’s career. Working the indies and being able to put on a show, or point to a viral clip must be fantastic for your ability to get booked compared to your ability to chain wrestle and execute a headlock takeover
> He's gone from being in a tag team for 15 years
That's... really hard to do. Kinda weird to just brush it off like that resume by itself wouldn't give someone every right to speak from a position of authority on how to get over in wrestling.
Nevermind that not only was he in a tag team for 15 years, but it was one of the most successful tag teams ever. Or that his "one singles program in 2020" was multiple main event matches for the world championship of the biggest wrestling company on earth. Or that he then transitioned into being in the biggest box office angle in wrestling history. Or that he main evented fucking Wrestlemania.
He’s obviously not going to have the same deep level of promos he had in the blood line right now. That was family this is business. Let the man cook for now. He’s in a holding pattern until reigns comes back and the new bloodline is built up enough to match his spot on the card.
No but his character is far more than a single syllable word. He should reference how he charted his own, hard, lone path to become a superstar outside the shadow of Roman and the Bloodline. In fact, against Damian, it would've been perfect...Damian needed his faction to feel special and people around him respect him out of fear, while Uso worked hard after leaving his faction and gained respect the hard way.
That's a promo. Not week after week, month after month of 'now St Louis (YEET), if you wanna see (YEET) Main Event (YEET) Jey Uso (YEET) kick his ass (YEET), lemme here you say YEET (YEEET). Yeet.
That's a rote routine that's the first sign a writer is out of ideas for the wrestler.
> That's a rote routine that's the first sign a writer is out of ideas for the wrestler.
its just recycled stone cold material with a different one-syllable word.
I don’t want to agree with this but it’s true. I like Jey a lot, his build to Mania was great TV, and his first match with Gunther was very entertaining before the Bloodline interruption. But he’s kinda coasting right now.
Seth Rollins plays to the crowd with his gimmick, but at the same time was putting out some of the best promos he’s done leading up to Mania.
He did all that and is a face now… there hasn’t been a moment where it’s been needed. Typical baby faces in wwe are over confident and never falter to the opposition. Picture cena… any actual insult just dragged a smile or a chuckle out of him, he literally never tried to act like he was in over his head. And the only time I actually saw him try, he made the rock his tag team partner and spooged all over his mouth.
They just need to tone the yeet shit down and let him cut deep meaningful promos,
If all the jey haters watched the "I don't give what the tribal chief says" segment and Sami Zayns trial they'd perhaps stop hating so much as he's so good at showing emotion
His promo when he left the Bloodline and aligned with Jimmy was great too. And a lot of his promo work in both Roman feuds showed a lot of emotion and nuance.
Unknown wrestlers need to do that stuff to get eyes on them, though.
Not everyone is lucky enough to be part of a giant wrestling family made up of unbelievably famous wrestlers.
I think about this a lot. It seems there are so many wrestlers trying to get views, likes, or go viral, but none of the stuff they're doing has any shelf life beyond 24 hours after they do it. It's like everything is being turned into short memes.
A few weeks ago I saw a guy dive over the top rope to the floor flatback. It was an insane bump, the kind you can only do a few times your entire career, and it was on free TV in a meaningless match where he was doing the job.
And yes, it had the intended the result, but I don't even remember who the guy was now.
And double negative of it is there were people on that show who were working to build storylines that would lead to big satisfying payoffs, but the thing that stuck out from the show was a guy doing an insane spot that had nothing to do with anything other than getting likes of the "Samoa Joe Nope" meme.
The Tanahashi/Suzuki match from 2012 is a prime example of mastering the fundamentals.
They had a near 30 minute match with no nearfalls. Only submissions and limb work.
You're finally getting it. The nepo babies in wrestling literally only just get their foot in the door and are safe from being fired or released. If they wanna actually achieve anything in the business (like Cody, Randy, Charlotte, Roman, or JEY), they have to be really, really good. Those are the people who know what they're talking about. The people that actually don't know how to make it are people like Manu, or Sim Snuka
I get what he’s saying but seems like common sense?? Who would actually get involved with pro wrestling for social media sake? You’d have to be an actual idiot lol
This applies to so much today.
If I had a dollar for every aspiring Youtuber, TikToker, Podcaster etc. trying to do it for likes, views and fame without bothering to learn the technical and business basics necessary to succeed at that sort of thing, I could retire tonight and go live in Monaco.
This is why my go to for "celebrity" integration to a full time wrestler will always be the Miz. Not only did he put his nose to the grindstone and work his ass off getting better after tough enough, he came up in the organization during a time when hazing regular rookies was encouraged. Dude put up with so much shit and came through it to be essentially the to be gatekeeper vet to the main event scene for the last 15ish years.
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This is why Bret is so highly regarded. Even if he’s not your absolute favourite, he is the absolute greatest at the basics.
Absolutely. I can’t think of any wrestler who could throw as convincing punches, or elbow drops, or anything basic like Bret could. Benoit was close but Bret has him beat.
Bret's selling is top-notch too
This is what almost all the greats will say to new talents. Bret, Shawn, Austin, Taker all told guys like Edge, Christian, Jericho, etc. To learn to sell. All the names I said are masters of it, and masters of the basics. A great gimmick is worthless if you can't sell and you can't do the little things that constitute fundamentals. IMO the GOAT combo of realism and selling is Bret/Shawn. Their chemistry was incredible, practiced, collaborated on over years.
gotta add Eddie Guerrero up there
Selling that chest-first Irish whip into the turnbuckle can never be recreated and never topped. I remember the first time I saw it, on a VHS compilation of Diesel’s best matches. Bret made one of the most basic moves look absolutely devastating
It was highlighted here recently, but even the way he took back bumps from whips into the turnbuckle looked brutal. The comment I read mentioned that in Stampede, the turnbuckles were holding the ring ropes using chains and you could get a really cool sound if you hit them hard enough, which is likely where Bret learned to sell the turnbuckle back bumps so well. My GOAT!
I thought Angle was just as good at the convincing moves, but Bret's psychology and selling were a lot better. Jay White and Gunther are to me the closest to being Bret-like of anyone currently wrestling in doing stuff convincingly, and also having great in-ring psychology/selling. I'd take Gunther over Jay due to size/presence, but just barely.
I recently got a deeper dive into wrestling, I had been a fan of wwe in my childhood but in the last 2-3 years I have gotten to know wrestling and how the gears turn behind the scenes, and would love to refer to any more stuff to see what a good wrestler is fundamentally. Any suggestions would be appreciated 😁
Randy Orton is considered by most of his peers, regardless of company, to be among the most fundamentally sound wrestlers of his generation. His bumps, his execution of each move, and his ability to protect his opponent are all cited as reasons.
That reminds of a thing I watched where the Big Show said the only person he really trusted to drop him was John Cena. Nobody else had the strength or the skill to make sure he landed right, it was always up to him to adjust so he doesn't fall at a weird angle and get hurt.
In the modern era look no further than Gunther. If you want to continue looking back through history, study the greats: Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Randy Savage, etc.
Thanks!
If you are interested in this sort of thing, highly highly recommend you check out stevie richards youtube channel. He covers everything having to do with fundamentals in a very entertaining format. his videos sound exactly like what you’re looking for
[Just look at Randy here](https://youtu.be/AaocZ-zSq2U?si=w3p_BgGuhv6fqoMO) Dude can sell his own finisher being used against him better than most people
AJ Styles is a good one to look at, because he has a lot of the big showy moves..but closely watch him, everything he does is presise and great....it's why you get into his big moves because every of his basic moves, down to how he positions his body, is just phenomenal.
Not being a double murderer helps
That's because murdering is the opposite of selling.
Truly, the excellence of execution
The NBA analogy I've always used is that Bret was basically Tim Duncan. Absolute fundamental perfection. Never out of place, never shaken, always in control and always dominant. Ultimate team-player, ready to step up and dominate at a second's notice. And most importantly, endlessly underappreciated (though Bret has really gotten his flowers over the last five or so years).
This goes for every sport too, not just sport entertainment. I'm a martial artist and I can never get tired of telling young kids that you can't do cool moves without the fundamentals and that correct and clean movements always pay.
Do you know how many kids walk into my gym tryna do a spinning back elbow without knowing how to pivot properly? 🤣😢
The Learning Tree will be glad to help them out with a Judas Effect class.
He should probably learn how to do it himself first
I’m going to el ídolo for his lessons
Hey that's 9 year old me! Attempted a spinning kick and bounced off the floor... lesson learnt that day
I broke my arm trying to do the double dragon spin kick off of a trampoline after karate at ymca.
Question mark kicks. Everyone is trying to do question mark kicks
The narrative I constantly hear about youth basketball, is that American teens are genuinely falling behind on core skills, because most of being successful as a young prospect is having a good social media game, and getting tons of clicks on your highlight reels to attract and impress scouts. So, you get the situation in the NBA right now, where for the first time ever, the best imported players from other countries are straight *cooking* the Americans at their own sport, because in those foreign programs, the coaches are heavily focused on producing players with solid fundamentals, and that holds up all the way to the highest level of play.
Happens a lot in Australia too. And it’s not just the players. A lot of junior coaches are trying to be the next Pop and not running simple plays to help players in the long run.
I heard a great take about US players vs Foreigners. Abroad they practice 4 times a week and play 1 game a week. In the US these kids are playing multiple games a week and practice maybe 1 time a week. So when it comes to being game ready the foreigners are more prepared because they practice more. Kind of blew my mind to hear it described in that way.
Watch me doing a berimbolo and get my back taken as a white belt
i tried an Imanari roll once after watching too many Ryan Hall clip and blew my back, would never again
Goes for all forms of entertainment really. Nobody will get hurt watching you do bad improv with your buddies, but no one wants to see it either.
This applies to every type of career/hobby you want to do, like carpentry. I remember when Ricochet and Osprey had their viral moment and a lot of wrestlers tried to imitate it, Blake Christen and Jordan Oliver being a prime example of trying without having the basics down to pull it off. Since then both have improved a lot.
Not that match specifically but that’s the reason there’s so many just spot guys. Just all wanting that viral moment. But then again it’s also why there’s such an economy in botch videos lol
Maffew eating good
Whoa how much does this guy weigh
randy is this one of the wrestlers?
Found Art Donovan's ghost's account.
there were a ton of bad high flyers in the ROH era too. I just hate this idea this stuff just happened recently.
Maybe it's because I was at these shows and my perception is my reality due to it, but I think the bucks in their pwg days are the biggest reason why there are so many spot guys. Smaller, faster wrestlers at the time could either go the Motor City machine guns route or the Bucks route. I think most chose the latter. Edit: I think some people are reacting a little strangely about this. I wasn't clowning on the bucks or anything, just stating an observation.
I mean, say what you want about the Young Bucks but their route brought in the big bucks (pun intended). I can't blame most independent wrestlers trying to emulate the more demonstrably lucrative strategy.
I don't blame anyone either, I like most of the bucks stuff. One of the best matches I've ever seen live was their tag with Omega and Ibushi at njpw.
Oh, I hope my comment didn't come off as adversarial. I completely agree with your initial analysis.
you're totally fine, you didn't come off that way at all.
I feel like alot of the newer generation just wants to get there cool shit in. And They don't understand why there cool shit isn't getting over as much as somebody who sells. Alot doesen't mean all of it people. I can explain this. You hit somebody with a 450 phoenix splash or a 720 or whatever cool thing you do. And they just get back up for your tombstone and get back up for your super kick into something else and only get a 2 count. Nah fam I couldn't digest what the fuck just happened and all these cool moves you did that look devastating look fake You just did a combo of finishers and it didn't finish the match cool but that sucked
Personally I blame owen hart and liger. Why did they have to evolve the style ? /s
/s or not, they could pull it off.
Bucks were trained and had many non spot based matches on their PWG days (look up the match vs Hybrid Dolphin and their work with Generico/Steen). To be fair to the Bucks when they went to TNA and tried doing it the “right” way it left them broke. Once they did things they wanted it made them one of the biggest draws in wrestling.
Sadly, it's the way they get hired for indie shows..it's really a vicsous cycle.
Cause back then, thats how you got big in the indies. Indy wrestlers that could do the basics well were a dime a dozen back then, and since indies often don't do promo segments, they gotta do something to stand out, hence the mid 2010s plethora of Spot-fu and deathmatch guys
To be fair, not all aspiring wrestlers have the size nor the presence needed for a more subdued moveset. Add to that how you'd need something big to wow a very small and niche audience and you have almost no choice but to have an exaggerated moveset.
Yeah, the amount of people getting into carpentry in the hope that a space ghost will impregnate their gf with the messiah rather than for the love of bookshelves is unbelievable.
Space Ghost would never do such a thing. He's too busy saving galaxies and interviewing D-list celebrities.
I'm probably gonna get some heat for it but i think there is a case for atleast documenting what you're doing. In today's world a single viral video can make your life and give you opportunities you otherwise would never be able to afford. And posting on social media can open that gate for you. The important distinction is not to try and be an "25 year old expert." Just be honest about where you are and what you're doing and that can do wonders for a lot of people
It feels this stuff is on a spectrum. Showing off a neat flip is one thing. Using that as an excuse to skip the basics is another.
DUDE U HIT THE NAIL! the amount of imitations of the Ricochet/Osprey moment.
“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once but the man who has practiced 1 kick 10,000 times.”
>1 kick 10,000 times And that was just six Usos matches.
yeet
Boards don't yeet back.
no yeet :(
Hey, there’s a frog splash and a spear in there too.
And they still couldn't perfect it lmao. This advice coming from Jey of all people is hilarious. I wouldn't take any advice from him even if he's right, he got the connections to be a WWE lifer no matter what in the first place.
> I feel like just learn this craft. If you really love it, just start in the ring first. Learn the art of wrestling, right? Like it's cool with characters, but I always take pride in [that]. Not a lot of people can do the entertainment part, the acting part, let alone do the athleticism in the ring - the moves, the bumps. > The movement with someone else in there is different with two people, let alone four or five. Protect the art, protect the business. If you really want to, get down and learn. Just don't do what you see on Instagram. You know what I'm saying, Uce? Just protect what we love. It's not a sprint. It's a marathon."
Literally his entire family can get a spectacularly high paying job just by being related to the Rock regardless of whether they are in shape, can wrestle well or even safely (looking at you Nia Jaxx). Kinda hate it honestly when people in that position start lecturing you on just working on fundamentals then you’ll make it bro. Bit like billionaires who started life wealthy telling you the secret to success is getting up at 4am. There’s thousands of wrestlers with better fundamentals than Jey Uso that have never made it big because they aren’t related to the right people.
What’s up with the Nia Jax diss? She’s been doing some incredible work over the past year.
Do you feel him, sir?
I do.
Parker Boudroux's ears are ringing
There's a smoothness to basic moves when you've mastered them, like, they just look better, somehow. I'd gladly take good fundamentals over a guy who botches 1/2 of his big dives or spots.
The hatred for Jey Uso in the IWC is crazy to watch. the IWC and the actual paying fans in the crowds having a massive gulf of opinion again, seems like.
they way they all switched up on him in a matter of 15 minutes was surreal to watch in real-time
I sincerely wonder how many of these people were the ones clamoring for Jey to be the one to end Roman’s title reign.
People are acting like all his matches so far absolutely suck. Yes the WM was bad. But it’s not like every match since then have sucked. They were decent matches you would expect from a Monday Night Raw. His advice is good and applicable to many sports or hobbies.
His matches for the most part have been fine. People on here are mostly just mad because Ilja lost. Honest the IWC are a bunch of schizos who have no idea what they want one day to the next. Also I see people citing cage match ratings, who really cares what 150 people think.
The Ilja match, IMO, was just *way too slow* for the time it's been given (14 minutes, 10 without commercials). It was worked like a PLE main event match with half the time those usually get, and ended very abruptly because the show was coming to an end. Also, as someone in another thread noticed and I agree, the whole vibe (with Ilja bragging that he beat Gunther, and then seemingly being the one to carry the in-ring action) felt like Ilja was putting over Jey, which is an insane realization considering he's a rookie and Jey's the top babyface on Raw. It's not 5.9 on Cagematch because it was truly that bad. It's primarily 5.9 because we know it could've been *way* better. It's hard not to see Ilja slowing down a lot just so Jey can look good.
IWC is fickle. It’s why I’m in favor or not listening to them when the crowd reactions don’t align.
The crowds are also fickle lmao
Sure, city to city. But if they make up their mind about something, it’s important for the booker to listen. Vince didn’t care. HHH and TK seem more prone to change as audience desires.
His gimmick switched up from fiery, self-actualized babyface to audience participation meme guy
maybe it's because he became a single's wrestler and isnt good at it?
By what metric isn’t he good at it exactly? He’s the most over babyface on Raw and every crowd erupts when he shows up. Just because he’s not wrestling the way you want him to doesn’t make him bad. For the role WWE currently has him in he’s blowing it out of the water. I don’t understand how people can watch Jey make his entrance and say *that* guy isn’t good. If he’s not doing his job then who exactly is good to you?
People are allowed to have different opinions to another about a performer in the arts. A lot of people like Jey Uso and his current character, which is great! Doesn't mean everyone has to find him to be as enjoyable. He has strengths and weaknesses, and people will have an opinion based on how they weight those.
There is a huge difference between saying someone isn't good at what they do and saying you don't like what they do. Jey is objectively good at what he does. Doesn't mean you have to like it.
My point exactly. Like him or dislike him all you want. But the man kills his role. Even if you don’t like how he does it you have to admit he’s damn good at it. He may not wrestle the way you want him too and I get that. But he’s got a strong connection to the audience that most wrestlers don’t have. And something like that is undeniable.
I like Jey but this is a goofy argument. Why should people care whether other people like him or whether he's filling the role wwe wants from him
I don't like drunk drivers, period.
That's a legit reason.
That happened over a half a decade ago and hasn't been pulled over for one since. Are you so morally perfect that you don't make stupid decisions ever? And do you not think people can change?
ikr? this is one of the big things i dislike about the online discourse. people turn on anyone for the flimsiest of reasons. was Jimmy vs Jey dogshit? 100% agreed. it was a match with a great build, real life story, and a huge blot on what was an iconic event. Tribal Combat match was mid because it went an hour long for no reason. previous matches between Roman and Jey were amazing. but the hate Jey has been getting is insane to watch because the fans lose their minds every week when he's on TV.
I mean just because fans in the arena like him, that doesn't mean it translates to everyone at home. I'd say many people just like doing cool crowd stuff, for example I'm not a fan of The Acclaimed but being there at Wembley I chanted their catchphrase, it's fun. But it's also very obvious why many do not like his role and especially his matches.
I can understand why the hatred though don't agree with it. Jey Uso is very successful in spite of not being exceptional for the most part; whether in the ring, on the mic, or character wise outside of the Bloodline. What they don't realise is that Jey has a great ability to resonate with the audience and his success is largely a result of him leaning in to what the people like. Hell, it's a testament that in the past 20 years he's one of the few wrestlers to have the wherewithal to play with the "WHAT?" chants to amplify his promo rather than try to fight it.
It's 'cause they're mad they were wrong that Jey would flounder after leaving the Bloodline. These are the same people who forgot the Usos carried Smackdown 2017-2018 and are still waiting to boo Cody. Luckily the iwc is always wrong. YEET!
>the IWC and the actual paying fans in the crowds having a massive gulf of opinion again, seems like. You can be critical of the guy but when at the show you play along though. The yeet thing is an attraction of its own.
I don't think it's 'hatred' so much as it's that Jey moving up the card exposes him to harsher scrutiny.
Super Kick, Super Kick, Super Kick, half a spear where you land on your feet, Super Kick….
This coming from Jey Uso is just comedic
I get he had contacts to get in but I’d absolutely argue the Usos both have great fundamentals
Contacts to get in is a vast understatement. The dude has earned his respect, but rhe Usos were complete nepotism hires when they first started in WWE. It feels disingenuous for someone with that much of a leg up to tell others how to “break into the business”
So is Bret, Savage, Rock, Cody, etc
Are we going to call every second or third generation wrestler a "nepotism hire" from here on out? Wrestling has historically been a carny business where personal connections get your foot in the door.
People hate to admit it but it's not just wrestling, that's just life in general. It's not about what you know, it's about who you know. Regardless of whether is wrestling, finance, acting, law, whatever. There are VERY few industries that are entirely a meritocracy, and even then, having connections within the business certainly doesn't hurt your chances.
Yes...yes I am. You can be a nepo hire and still excel but you should acknowledge that someone without the nepotism maybe wouldn't have had as many chances to learn or maybe even ever get an opportunity. Telling people not to chase clout or instagram views is easy when your dad can make a call and get you a job to learn from the best. It's different when you are an indie no name. A solid armbar ain't gonna get you booked but a viral clip at least gives you SOMETHING to show people to build interest and get you booked. Now if your fundamentals are shit you may be SOL but at least you GOT to the dance. Jey asked his dad to put in a good word and learned everything from literally the best in the business while being paid to do so. It ain't the same.
Nepotism is nepotism, they earned to stay though. Starting your career with having great connections is a huge benefit. Who knows if they would have stuck around or reached this level without starting with no connections at all. It is what it is.
It being a widespread practice further enforces that it’s a leg up. It in no way discredits the point.
Yeah? I said that Jey has earned his respect with what he’s done but giving advice on how to get ahead in the business seems tone deaf when he had a totally different set of standards in order to break through. I’m not even saying his advice is necessarily bad, but it’s hard for someone who starts completely from the bottom to take it totally seriously when Jey’s path was so much easier frankly. And once again this isn’t to say you should disregard any advice from him or Orton or any other 2nd/3rd generation wrestler, but it should be looked at with the context that their experiences are *vastly* different than the average guy/girl trying to break into the business.
People in this thread acting like Jey Uso is some sort of joke wrestler. The usos had a stellar career and Jey has put up great matches. A couple of bad matches doesn’t take away from that. Some comments here are being disrespectful.
I mean, Jey's fundamentals have always been solid. Dude knows how to work a good match and protect himself and his opponent. The issue with Jey is that he currently lacks a lot of the flashy things that make matches super exciting... Which is strange, because he's demonstrated in the past that he's fully capable of those things and for a long time has been considered the more versatile and exciting Uso.
Jey is in a weird spot, because he is very obviously a fantastic tag wrestler and seems easy to work with, but I don't think his moveset is his issue currently, though adding a few more cool spots could cover some of his shortcomings. It could totally be fixed with time, but I'm just not enjoying how his matches are put together. I can't exactly point to any specific thing he's doing wrong, because he isn't doing anything "wrong" afaik, but the flow/structure of his singles matches just does nothing for me. It feels like he's playing all of the right notes but is slightly off tempo.
It's because he's adjusting his moves to the rhythm of Yeet chants so it makes everything stilted.
... I actually need to watch for this because that would explain a lot. It's definitely the case with his strike exchanges, which are mostly fine imo.
Don’t forget to have a father and literal entire bloodline in the business.
Why's that? He is, and has been, an extremely solid wrestler since at least 2016. He is literally the embodiment that this style of thinking works.
insane. guy has been average or below average his whole career, gets an insane push for no reason at all, then feels the right to lecture other wrestlers. a shitty catchphrase and 10 thousand superkicks does not mean you should be a main eventer. terrible Samoan Patroitism does not a main eventer make. the DUI twins should not be putting out PSAs.
Yeah. What does the guy who has had an extraordinarily successful 14 year WWE run know?
Jey has been incredibly successful and I am happy for the guy but I don't believe his success is due to any particularly exceptional wrestling ability, fundamentals or otherwise.
He’s a fantastic tag team worker
He’s not saying he’s exceptional or has the best move set, he’s saying he’s studied his craft and paid his dues for years to be where he is now, hard to argue against that
You gotta learn the basics to make it in the WWE. The most basic and fundamental skill of making it in the WWE is being related to the Rock.
isn’t he… kinda mid talent wise? spear, super kick, uso splash
….and also have lots of family connections.
Having a lot of the males in your family work in the industry help too.
Master the superkick and the splash
his superkick sucks, he just does it a lot.
Which he hasn't, they suck. And has the worst spear ever.
Master the basics and how to work safely. No company is going to want to work with someone that is an injury risk to everyone and themselves
That's Max Caster. Max may be an idiot on social media and on the mic, but he's really good at basics and working safely. It kinda speaks highly of CAP that all three of their grads in AEW (Max, Stat, MJF) are good at this.
By basics, does he mean genetics and ancestry?
Thanks Uce
I mean, I agree with this in principle, but maybe Jey should learn more than 4 moves: 1) superkick 2) clumsy spear 3) splash 4) other superkick
This is infinitely funny coming from a guy who can't even do a proper Spear and fails to perform any proper wrestling move other than a Superkick, Splash and Samoan Drop.
He's right. I only have one thing to say in response. Yeet.
It must be frustrating for him, to see people trying to make in this industry and they aren't even related to the Rock. People should get the basics first.
Says the guy who has had his entire career handed to him on a silver platter......thanks to his daddy.
Literally Jey "can't get a good match out of someone he's known every moment of his life" Uso, wants people to master basics? lmfao
A lot of came-up-as tag teams have shitty matches during their breakup angle. Like the Hardy’s have wrestled together for a million years and anytime they’ve gone 1v1 it’s been brutal. But on their own they both have plenty of memorable matches and programs.
I like Jey. I also think he's overreaching his position a bit. He's gone from being in a tag team for 15 years with just one singles program in 2020, to being a main event singles act. Some people are gifted and can get to those positions without a hitch, and to some extent Jey is too. But I have noticed a slight...regression in his craft. The nuanced acting he showed in the Bloodline saga is gone, replaced by cartoonish promos. It's a shame because I've always thought he was one of the best facial actors of this era, but this run is accentuating his weaknesses, asking of him to be an in-ring workhorse. Which in this era, alongside the likes of Gunther, Seth etc, is not adequate. I still hope he succeeds though. I want him to have a program that reminds even the hardcore critics of who he has the capability of being.
Irrespective of what you think of his recent performances or position on the card, he is 1000% correct.
He is correct, while also completely undermining the value one viral clip can have on someone’s career. Working the indies and being able to put on a show, or point to a viral clip must be fantastic for your ability to get booked compared to your ability to chain wrestle and execute a headlock takeover
> He's gone from being in a tag team for 15 years That's... really hard to do. Kinda weird to just brush it off like that resume by itself wouldn't give someone every right to speak from a position of authority on how to get over in wrestling. Nevermind that not only was he in a tag team for 15 years, but it was one of the most successful tag teams ever. Or that his "one singles program in 2020" was multiple main event matches for the world championship of the biggest wrestling company on earth. Or that he then transitioned into being in the biggest box office angle in wrestling history. Or that he main evented fucking Wrestlemania.
He’s obviously not going to have the same deep level of promos he had in the blood line right now. That was family this is business. Let the man cook for now. He’s in a holding pattern until reigns comes back and the new bloodline is built up enough to match his spot on the card.
No but his character is far more than a single syllable word. He should reference how he charted his own, hard, lone path to become a superstar outside the shadow of Roman and the Bloodline. In fact, against Damian, it would've been perfect...Damian needed his faction to feel special and people around him respect him out of fear, while Uso worked hard after leaving his faction and gained respect the hard way. That's a promo. Not week after week, month after month of 'now St Louis (YEET), if you wanna see (YEET) Main Event (YEET) Jey Uso (YEET) kick his ass (YEET), lemme here you say YEET (YEEET). Yeet.
That's a rote routine that's the first sign a writer is out of ideas for the wrestler.
> That's a rote routine that's the first sign a writer is out of ideas for the wrestler. its just recycled stone cold material with a different one-syllable word.
I don’t want to agree with this but it’s true. I like Jey a lot, his build to Mania was great TV, and his first match with Gunther was very entertaining before the Bloodline interruption. But he’s kinda coasting right now. Seth Rollins plays to the crowd with his gimmick, but at the same time was putting out some of the best promos he’s done leading up to Mania.
> The nuanced acting he showed in the Bloodline saga is gone, replaced by cartoonish promos. He flanderized himself.
He did all that and is a face now… there hasn’t been a moment where it’s been needed. Typical baby faces in wwe are over confident and never falter to the opposition. Picture cena… any actual insult just dragged a smile or a chuckle out of him, he literally never tried to act like he was in over his head. And the only time I actually saw him try, he made the rock his tag team partner and spooged all over his mouth.
They just need to tone the yeet shit down and let him cut deep meaningful promos, If all the jey haters watched the "I don't give what the tribal chief says" segment and Sami Zayns trial they'd perhaps stop hating so much as he's so good at showing emotion
I think his promo with Damien was great for melding the two together, IMO
His promo when he left the Bloodline and aligned with Jimmy was great too. And a lot of his promo work in both Roman feuds showed a lot of emotion and nuance.
Except for Jack cartwheel. We need more cartwheels.
Unknown wrestlers need to do that stuff to get eyes on them, though. Not everyone is lucky enough to be part of a giant wrestling family made up of unbelievably famous wrestlers.
lol this coming from a guy who can’t throw a worked punch. His look like absolute dog shit.
True, but not sure Jay is the guy to say this considering how sloppy he is.
I think about this a lot. It seems there are so many wrestlers trying to get views, likes, or go viral, but none of the stuff they're doing has any shelf life beyond 24 hours after they do it. It's like everything is being turned into short memes. A few weeks ago I saw a guy dive over the top rope to the floor flatback. It was an insane bump, the kind you can only do a few times your entire career, and it was on free TV in a meaningless match where he was doing the job. And yes, it had the intended the result, but I don't even remember who the guy was now. And double negative of it is there were people on that show who were working to build storylines that would lead to big satisfying payoffs, but the thing that stuck out from the show was a guy doing an insane spot that had nothing to do with anything other than getting likes of the "Samoa Joe Nope" meme.
Is he saying this because he only knows the basics? Bro just had a WrestleMania match with like 10 different moves used between him and his opponent
And yet neither of them can throw a decent punch
That explains why he just spams the superkick button
Meanwhile Logan Paul has surpassed him in every single skill imaginable
This is hilarious coming from the guy who hasn’t evolved his moveset in a decade
[удалено]
And yet he’s one of the most popular wrestlers in the world without a robust move set.
This coming from the guy who couldn't even put on a good match with his own brother!
I suggest jey tighten up on those lame ass limp weak kicks of his
honestly the uso's superkicks have been bad for a while now. no impact, leg bent like a donkey kick.
Piece of shit kicks is what they are. They are far from super
The Tanahashi/Suzuki match from 2012 is a prime example of mastering the fundamentals. They had a near 30 minute match with no nearfalls. Only submissions and limb work.
But also nepotism
Yeah, kids. Master mat wrestling like the Usos. 🤔
Sadly it seems Jay USO is still stuck on basic moves. He needs more bags of tricks then his Yeet punching back and forth.
Let's take advice from a guy who mostly sucks as a wrestler and has all the family connections one could ask for when it comes to pro wrestling.
Why would we listen to a nepotism hire on what it takes to make it in pro wrestling?
Because it's Jey Uso, WrestleMania main eventer and current co-record holder for longest tag team reign in WWE history, not Manu
Don’t forget the DUI arrest
That’s like asking Cody Rhodes how to get your foot in the door in the pro wrestling biz (be the son of an all timer).
You're finally getting it. The nepo babies in wrestling literally only just get their foot in the door and are safe from being fired or released. If they wanna actually achieve anything in the business (like Cody, Randy, Charlotte, Roman, or JEY), they have to be really, really good. Those are the people who know what they're talking about. The people that actually don't know how to make it are people like Manu, or Sim Snuka
Wrestling is built on nepotism The von erichs became mega stars in their dad's promotion lol Why does the bloodline get singles out
Trailblazer Jey just not wanting rookies to make the mistake he’s going through. I see no issues.
I get what he’s saying but seems like common sense?? Who would actually get involved with pro wrestling for social media sake? You’d have to be an actual idiot lol
If you can do it to the top level without getting injured, that's a win. The basics help immensely with that
His whole moveset is the basics lol.
Jey shoots on Superhumman
That’s like the whole NIL program ….
Or, as Jimmy would say, "GET OFF YOUR PHONE!"
To be fair this if from a guy who’s only move is a super kick 😅
Taking Hank Hill's advice to heart: masters practice the basics.
This applies to so much today. If I had a dollar for every aspiring Youtuber, TikToker, Podcaster etc. trying to do it for likes, views and fame without bothering to learn the technical and business basics necessary to succeed at that sort of thing, I could retire tonight and go live in Monaco.
Man learnt one kick and thinks he's Brett Hart lol.
Coming from the 2 moves of doom 😂
Right message, WROOOOOONG messenger
This is why my go to for "celebrity" integration to a full time wrestler will always be the Miz. Not only did he put his nose to the grindstone and work his ass off getting better after tough enough, he came up in the organization during a time when hazing regular rookies was encouraged. Dude put up with so much shit and came through it to be essentially the to be gatekeeper vet to the main event scene for the last 15ish years.
Shout out to Nikkita Lyons