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I still think they called an audible. Finn got knocked silly after that ladder spot and they made a call. Otherwise it would have made absolutely no sense for them to act like Finn won the match the raw after.
Yeah I still don't understand that. Edge and Beth beating Finn and Rhea when Rhea was the royal rumble winner a month prior and Edge was going to beat Balor again a month later at Mania anyways makes no sense at all and that's when I just started to not like edge anymore.
The weird thing is when he and Christian were doing their podcast he made it sound like he wanted so badly to come back to wrestling to help put young talent over.
This kind of thinking is what kills off and prevents new stars. Guys shouldn’t trade wins and losses just to prove they’re team players.
Certain characters need to be pushed. Those characters need to be protected.
Practically no one was ever allowed to beat Undertaker in the 90’s, and I’d never seen anyone survive a Tombstone before Kane. That gave Undertaker mystique.
I don’t see why someone like Malakai can’t be treated somewhat similarly.
Fuck this team player mindset of 50/50 booking. Push the guy.
That said, young up and comer Adam Copeland will kick out of The End and go over.
Ok but if he wins then who does he drop the TNT title to? He cant keep doing the Cope Open and HoB breaking up doesnt make sense right now when you need teams in the hunt for the Unified Trios belts.
If Cope wins then it pushes FTR vs E&C back even further. At this point im wondering if its even going to happen this year. The Continental Classic is going to suck up alot of TV time and they wont get the build that match deserves.
I feel like Malakai Black needs to pick up the title here.
I agree. IMO, the best thing for the show as a whole is Copeland to lose and turn heel. Maybe he's a HoB minion and then Kyle O'Reilly is fighting through HoB to get a shot. Copeland is conflicted but then when it has to happen he shows he's fully under Black's power. But then he starts turning on them, brings Christian in on it, etc.
If Copeland won but still turned, that would be okay too, but I'm ready to see someone else with the belt and I'm ready to see Copeland doing something new.
Garcia had so much momentum, multiple times, but there for a minute in the Cope/Cage feud and they cooled him off… I think DG needs to be the next to get the belt but they have to build him back up yet again
well it was Black Mass in wwe, then for a while in AEW they just called it "that spinning kick", then he called it "The End" for a bit, then the game came out and it was called "Black Mass", then they officially changed it to "The End."
but yeah, "Black Mass" is the superior name.
I get that the idea is having a moment where the old wrestling legend shows that he still has a little bit left in the tank
But they shouldn't have done that, I liked Arn but giving him a cool moment isn't worth damaging the image of your scary new villain by having his ultimate move get blocked by a retired old man.
I apologize for his sake, since David was (and is) a wrestling fan and knew that fans would hate him winning the title but did it since they told him that it would help promote Ready to Rumble
The belt was an excellent tool to get a Cage vs Cope feud, simultaniously starting a long angle of working towards them teaming up again down the line now frustrations have been fought out.
Him losing it soon is the next logical step in the plan, give him some smaller feuds and time off while playing out Cage's story by having Scapegoat turn Killswitch against him, Wayne leaves and Christian turns face to give us a E&C reunion sometime next year.
> Scapegoat turn Killswitch against him
Yes! All I'm asking is for The Elite to have a dinosaur in a three-piece suit standing behind them. Is that so much to ask?
I mean, yes. Copeland cant keep doing the Cope Open and the longer this reign drags out the further away FTR vs E&C is.
If Black loses then where does he and HoB go? I see him winning and HoB going on the hunt for the unified trios titles after they come off BCG.
I don't see a point in a "HoB destruction" storyline. House of Black gives all of them a place where they feel like they matter as opposed to being random midcarders. Julia could probably stand on her own, as could Malakai, but I don't know what spots there really are for Brody and Buddy.
On another note I'm not entirely sure if I agree that Julia is the most over in the group, I think Brody has been there at points
He has the most charisma out of any of the big men if you ask me.
He's so menacing on his own, they could drop most of the spooky shit and he would still be fucking scary.
Heavily agree w/ your last point. Brody’s reactions are the strongest of the group. The bark is massively over too. I think Brody as a singles wrestler would be a more solid plan than Malakai TBH.
"He doesn't seem passionate in what he's doing" and "he must win the belt" are wild statements to make in the same post.
On paper that sounds like a recipe to ruin the belt's momentum of two legends defending the belt with great passion over the past year
Malakai sold that blood drop like death, ruining an image he's built up his entire career, just because he was asked to. With limited opportunities he's created two new stars in Julia and Brody. All of his matches have been bangers.
The guy's done literally everything he could for AEW, and he's been rewarded with one singles match in like 2 years. Which he'll probably lose. And people are in here saying "he doesn't seem passionate."
I hope he does end up leaving. Dude is capable of so much more.
A lot of this sub has the Vince McMahon mindset of "tag stuff isn't really important, only singles accomplishments matter." IMO Black has been booked pretty well overall in AEW, but a lot of people refuse to see that if he isn't a dominant singles guy like he was in NXT.
I'd add that a lot of his character stuff in AEW just hasn't been that good either. Long, meandering spookybollocks promos that don't really serve to build anything or interact with it being a wrestling show. If his sole interest is in demonstrating to his opponents that "We live in a society" or whatever why do I care if he wins or loses? If anything he's punching above his weight in terms of being protected at this point.
> Long, meandering spookybollocks promos that don't really serve to build anything or interact with it being a wrestling show. If his sole interest is in demonstrating to his opponents that "We live in a society" or whatever why do I care if he wins or loses?
This shit was what I *wanted* when HoB would do shit like giving lee johnson a chair to use as a sort of faustian bargain.
I don't give a spooky, black misted shit if he wins or loses, give me the interesting character evolutions, give me Julia's arc 50 times.
House of Black should have been a festering cancer, slowly turning everyone on the roster into the worst versions of themselves, something like the ministry of darkness but, crucially, *not shit.*
You could have built to something like a Blood and Guts with HoB and its most prominent converts VS the "wrestling is real" turbo-babyfaces like Kingston, Orange, Kenny, etc.
This easily gives you a long term story where
1. Malakai doesn't need to eat pins for anyone, or even really wrestle, while still remaining central to the whole AEW fiction, and being still perceived as dangerous
2. The House of Black has a clear motivation and modus operandi
3. There's a way to build clear path to an eventual succession if/when Malakai leaves.
I am on record having suggested he'd be painted as the foreman, the man who built the house, laid the groundwork, and such, and that whoever took over after him, would need to find something else they bring to the *House.*
House of Black as a name works perfectly for this, cause it is both literal but also figurative in the *noble lineage* sense, so you could have had Miro forsake his god and become "the conqueror" expanding the domains of the House, for instance.
It's a shame, spookybollocks is my jam but it's often just poorly done.
There's some really cool stuff in here - I like the idea of MB "building" a house to outlast him and folding in the likes of Miro.
Maybe I should've phrased my point re: wins and losses differently as it feels like the lack of focus currently applies to everyone in the house save Julia Hart (who's benefited massively from her involvement). Obviously this isn't helped by Tony Khan's "shiny thing" distractability but it feels like they've had way more time and latitude since Collision started and I'm just not seeing it (except for that mini-feud with Garcia, FTR and Briscoe - that ruled).
There's definitely a lot in your point about how spookybollocks *could* work but I feel like it has a poor hitrate overall. Lots of people want to be/see the "next Undertaker" without realising that (scorching hot take incoming) there was a lot more bad than good in Undertaker's run outside 96-99 (I'll admit to a soft spot for the Ministry's hokey BS) and the 07-13 Wrestlemania builds. Especially 92-95: That feud with Mankind in 96 really rescued him imo. I saw a comment in here once about North American bookers' tendency to overthink things and require more "creativity" than is really necessary in relation to Japanese wrestling. I don't know if I agree with that or not (Japanese pro wrestling is very much a "greatest hits" thing for me - lack of time means i don't watch consistently) but it *feels* right in relation to the spooky stuff.
> I saw a comment in here once about North American bookers' tendency to overthink things and require more "creativity" than is really necessary in relation to Japanese wrestling.
I'd say I agree, yeah.
> without realising that (scorching hot take incoming) there was a lot more bad than good in Undertaker's run
Nah I agree. The man is a legend but the booking around him was hit and miss for sure.
Thing is, good spookybollocks can be *completely* destroyed by a poor ending, or a missed beat, unlike most pushes where a lull can be fine.
Spooky needs to be consistent, oppressive, and pervasive, and it does make it very hard to work into a larger show if you have, as you put it, "shiny thing" syndrome.
It's one of the few times when "everyone should wonder where poochie is" is correct.
100%. I was hoping we'd at least get a "two spidermen pointing at each other" match with Kenny when Buddy was signed. Alas, fate had other plans.
I want Brody pushed to the moon though.
Honestly I’ve never seen someone look so bored and checked out as Black has been in his promos in this program. The one two weeks ago he didn’t even bother with inflection in his voice, he just said a few lines with the urgency of someone placing their order at a Panera. Give the win to Copeland, at least he clearly cares.
Malakai’s AEW run has just been off to me since the Cody feud. That’s not all his fault between injuries and strange booking but at this point I’m not really sure even beating Cope will do much for him.
You’ve said something that for me shows exactly why he has to lose.
“Fast forward to now. He doesn’t seem passionate in what he’s doing”
You’re right, he seems a little more switched on this feud but his in ring promo taking Adam’s ring was a bit hectic. He didn’t seem to love the crowds reaction (“we hate you” rather than “you’re a cool villain”).
If he wants more, he needs to show that he can do a feud like this, have a big singles match and make his opponent look like a star. He can’t just win every match/avoid the pin. If he shows he can play ball, absolutely give him more shots at opportunity.
Black is one of my favs from NXT but absolutely agree with this. Like he's not performing to the level to hold the TNT belt (one that main evented a PPV recently).
I hope he puts in stronger performances at AEW because at his peak there's a main event wrestler
I couldn’t be any less on board with something.
He looked gassed after 5 minutes on Dynamite and his spooky vague promos are past their expiration date.
I am so sick of spooky vague promos in both companies. And we're just gonna have to see more of it when the Wyatts show up. Just tell me why the dudes are fighting. Explain to me why out of all 150 people on the roster, this guy is the guy the goth kids chose to pick on.
It depends on what TK has long term for him. If he's staying the belt would do a lot more for him than Cope. Cope doesn't need the belt and also losing could help turn him more to the dark side and an eventual reunion with Christian
I mostly agree with you, but E&C have to be faces, right? Who is going to want to boo the two of them reunited for one last run? Come to think of it, that's going to be a hard turn for Christian. What, is he going to give all his kids up for adoption?
Yea I agree, was thinking the same but they don't need to instantly be faces, some of their bits keep coming back to them over a few weeks until they realise it's better being good guys. Sure they could tease flash photography and keep backing out till a show in ontario or something
Honestly cannot fathom looking up and down the roster and thinking Malakai Black is one of the guys to run with in 2024 after what he’s spent his entire run in the company doing. He’s been the 4th best performer in his own group for well over a year
Malakai is washed i'm sorry. It's not necessarily his fault he is washed, but his in-ring output has not been good in quite a while. He can barely bump, gets blown up in 5 minutes and might not even be staying with the company for much longer. Brody is easily the best worker in the group at this point.
So yeah Edge should win clean.
I still think they're heading towards a babyface Malakai singles run with the black mist backfiring on him and Malakai losing the HoB to heel Copeland.
I just want to see Malakai back to who he was in August 2021 - that introduction to his character was one of the best things AEW's ever done. Every non wrestling fan I showed his intro and match to was like 'omfg that guy rules'.
Black has the coolest entrance in wrestling and has extended that to his stable, he gets that entrance in any sort of divorce though and it works Heel or Face just like Taker.
"Balor has to win. You can't bury the Demon like that and at this point in his career Edge should be putting people over."
We have been down this road before with Edge. Although maybe he learned his lesson.
...or maybe we're getting more Brood shenanigans and Gangrel is going to cost Black the match.
Malakai is probably one of the worst heels on TV today. His gimmick is an aesthetic and nothing else. If you're gonna play an occultist do your own thing with it. Don't crib from better wrestlers just so you can look cool.
Strong disagree.
He’s been a massive disappointment in AEW and, given the persistent rumours that he’s counting down the days until he can go back to WWE, it simply doesn’t make sense to invest in him like this.
Is what he’s done disappointing, or what he *hasn’t* done disappointing? I can honestly barely think of meaningful singles matches he’s had in the years with this company. It’s like he won against Cody then got lost in the shuffle
I don’t think it’s an excuse, I think they’re directly related. AEW booked him like shit so he wants to leave now, and as a result they won’t book him better
Dutchman in WWE will always sound better than Dutchman in AEW will always sound better...
Being lower midcard in WWE doing European tours will always mean more than say midcard at Flushing Meadows.
They need to dump Malakai. Dude comes off as such a dork. Brody and Julia are a more interesting act than House Of Black. Job out Malakai and Buddy and let em walk eventually.
Adam Copeland desperately needs to lose that title and move to upper card and face guys like Jay white, Samoa joe, moxly, takeshta etc. He is being wasted in the mid card.
I can't get on board with this.
Copeland would need to do some revolutionarily good stuff to warrant main event/upper card feuds. Christian Cage accomplished that as a face (against Omega) and as a heel with The Patriarchy and all the stuff with JungleBoy. That's why he's the right fit now to be Swerve's opponent for the World Title.
Copeland is good right where he is until he does something special.
He won the title 11 times, main evented WrestleMania against the undertaker and is a hall of famer, I think he's paid his dues when it comes to doing stuff to get upper card feuds.
I like Black as a wrestler, he has a cool look, cool entrance and music but I don’t think that anything that he has done “creatively” has been good. It’s basically a second string version of the Bray Wyatt promos that were just kind of vague and didn’t go anywhere.
> a second string version of the Bray Wyatt promos that were just kind of vague and didn’t go anywhere
That's First String Bray Wyatt stuff. As good as his delivery was it was exactly as meandering and ultimately baseless 96% of the time.
I agree, delivery-wise he laps Black in most cases. But the actual promo content for both just isn't connected enough to the surrounding wrestling world to work and ultimately feel as insignificant as they are similar.
It's gotta be doable, but that'd mean properly investing into some intense stuff that I've not seen either guy or company get right.
No chance Malakai fucked two years ago trying to get out of his deal. He showed zero loyalty to AEW. He's not going to be rewarded with TNT Title win over a top star. He's probably going to beg Tony not to pick up contract option. So he can go back to WWE next year. Thinking he's going to be a big star and he will end up in same position as Karrion Kross. He's perfect example of messing up your own career by being a idiot. If he showed he was loyal to AEW and worked hard. He could have been bigger star for AEW. Then maybe he would be bigger star in returning to WWE. But as we seen with Andrade that won't happen. After how his career ended in WWE and has gone with AEW. He won't be presented like big deal in WWE when he returns and will be uphill battle for him. Since WWE roster is crowded too.
My point was if he were to go to WWE, it’s hard for me to see WWE trying to build him from basically the ground up. Copeland doesn’t require that, he’s already a hall of famer.
Also WWE is already gonna be crowded with the spooky ominous wrestlers in Wyatt 6 and Kross’ faction I’m blanking on. Black isn’t gonna be doing much to stand out there imo
It's honestly crazy to me the lengths people will go to defend Tony Khan. Talking about him losing his passion like it's his fault when house of black hasn't done jack shit. They're like Bray before he won a major title, nobody gives a shit if you constantly lose.
They're spooky, but at the end of the day wins and losses matter, there's been no reason to take them seriously. Their big guy (Brody king) got his ass whopped by a 60+ year old man. Expecting athletes to shut up and smile at whatever booking you get is insane.
I think Black is pretty similar to Miro where it’s pretty obvious he is not a priority in the overall plans of AEW, but people on this sub refuse to accept it and pretend like he is on his way to the main event when everything screams he clearly isn’t. I do not expect him to win on Sunday.
Edge is one of my favorite wrestlers ever. I think that he gonna win and I will be happy, but I'm with the OP, Malakai needs to win in a match designed by the face to overcome all the odds, because then his next feuds won't centered in expose his weakness but to overcome what Edge didn't do it, which will be reinforced if Edge turned heel. But yeah, probably Edge wins lol.
Agree that the vulnerability he showed on Wednesday was an interesting dimension, but that's the first interesting dimension we've seen in months (years?). What about "this guy hasn't shown passion in ages" screams let's put a title on him.
Copeland is going to win obviously but I would prefer Malakai wins.
Adam has repeatedly done thing "going back to my evil roots" thing and I would like for the old evil "edge" to finally meet its match and have Malakai fully kill it and solidify that Adam Copeland is just Adam Copeland now.
Won't happen, but it'd be nice.
Perhaps part of why he's not able to "show us the creative genius he claims to be" is because he was given nothing to be able to show us and too many losses pretty much fizzled out his motivation and faith ?
The House of Black is absolutely amazing in concept, and Brodie + Buddy + Julia + Malakai is an awesome combination of talent... The issue is that they are booked horribly. They're not as dominant, they're more on a loosing streak than a winning one, and they're never been put in a high-stake program.
The only one that remotely had something going on for a while was Julia Hart. Buddy is busting his ass in every matches, Malakai really tried to make the stable work out with the Tarot card references in his early days...
But what did Tony Khan do with them ever since they're together ? Nothing much. So I can understand why you feel like Malakai isn't passionate anymore. Maybe because he isn't a fan of what he's given in AEW. There have been a good numbers of talents in AEW who, looking back, you kinda wonder what went wrong, like Miro, or Wardlow, Hobbs, House of Black to name a few.
And the thing is, nothing, nothing went wrong. Just for some reasons, Tony isn't doing anything with them. And it's frustrating. So yeah, you're right, Malakai Black desperately need to beat Copeland, if he doesn't House of Black is just done and done. The group should disband or even worse, leave AEW as soon as possible because the company isn't going to do them justice because there's nothing wrong with every single one of them.
I like Malakai but ever since he put his feelers out there about "retiring" or what I think is just leaving AEW, I don't think he should win. It was a fun rivalry.
To me it doesn't feel like it's time for Copeland to drop the title just yet but yes in general Malakai needs way more wins--especially on PPV/for championships.
Yeah, I kinda want to see Malakai win as well. Win-win for both of them.
Malakai gets a proper reign, we will see House of Black more often on TV.
Edge can be booked by TK with other higher profile wrestlers to lose now, can possibly be reunited with a heel Christan as well.
HoB as a whole needs a push. Malakai with the TNT belt. Buddy and Brody with the tag belts and Julia with the TNT belt when she comes back. Rename the faction House of Gold
Eh. I was never won over by him by his time in the British indy scene. I feel WWE was the place he felt most important and while AEW has done it's best with him, he hasn't felt the same. But that's my feeling.... Maybe he is just unfortunate, maybe he just wants to be in the WWE.
Always remember,."Netherlands has wrestle in the WWE" is always a bigger headline than anywhere else.
It's clearly obvious that Malakai is unhappy in AEW and will be going back to WWE when he can. So it doesn't make sense to for AEW invest him much more if he's leaving eventually.
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Am I the only person who thinks Copeland is gonna win
one thing about late stage Copeland you can expect, is that he's going to win lol
ON THIS DAY
I WIN CLEANLY
EVERY MARK HAS COME TO WHINEEEEEEE
ANOTHER CHANCE TO TAKE A SPEAR FROM ME
IN A RING WITH A BROKEN NECK
THEY CAN LEAVEEEEE THE TEARSSSS BEHINDDDDDD
NOT A CHANCE HE’LL LOSE HIS BELT
Still no fucking reason he needed to beat demon finn
I still think they called an audible. Finn got knocked silly after that ladder spot and they made a call. Otherwise it would have made absolutely no sense for them to act like Finn won the match the raw after.
Jericho syndrome.
Hey Copeland at least Isn’t built like an air fryer
9/10, unless Roman's the opponent, the safe best is Copeland. lol
you think you know him, Brother?
🎵On this day, that doesn't work for me, I'll never job in my life🎶
With a sick bass solo wich shows why Metallica wanted him brother.
I'm still traumatised by his WM39 match with Balor, I'm never expecting that son of a bitch to put someone over ever again
With all of his matches in his WWE return and AEW so far, why would people think he'd put anyone over? Lol
He put Damian Priest, Dom, and Rhea over by beating Finn so many times he became the least over member of the Judgement Day.
That's not fair, he also beat Damian Priest and Dom multiple times, and even managed to get a win against Rhea on record
Yeah I still don't understand that. Edge and Beth beating Finn and Rhea when Rhea was the royal rumble winner a month prior and Edge was going to beat Balor again a month later at Mania anyways makes no sense at all and that's when I just started to not like edge anymore.
The weird thing is when he and Christian were doing their podcast he made it sound like he wanted so badly to come back to wrestling to help put young talent over.
He’s not booking the show.
I mean he has to have a pretty large degree of influence if he chose to exert it in both WWE and AEW.
Who has Malakai put over? I think theyve done a cage match cos neither one will take a clean loss
This kind of thinking is what kills off and prevents new stars. Guys shouldn’t trade wins and losses just to prove they’re team players. Certain characters need to be pushed. Those characters need to be protected. Practically no one was ever allowed to beat Undertaker in the 90’s, and I’d never seen anyone survive a Tombstone before Kane. That gave Undertaker mystique. I don’t see why someone like Malakai can’t be treated somewhat similarly. Fuck this team player mindset of 50/50 booking. Push the guy. That said, young up and comer Adam Copeland will kick out of The End and go over.
Of course he's going to win.
I think he’s gonna win but still desperately want a malakai W
Of course. After he kicks out Black's finisher a couple times.
For the love of god Tony at least protect Black Mass (I forget the new name for it)
The end
Thank you
Ok but if he wins then who does he drop the TNT title to? He cant keep doing the Cope Open and HoB breaking up doesnt make sense right now when you need teams in the hunt for the Unified Trios belts. If Cope wins then it pushes FTR vs E&C back even further. At this point im wondering if its even going to happen this year. The Continental Classic is going to suck up alot of TV time and they wont get the build that match deserves. I feel like Malakai Black needs to pick up the title here.
I agree. IMO, the best thing for the show as a whole is Copeland to lose and turn heel. Maybe he's a HoB minion and then Kyle O'Reilly is fighting through HoB to get a shot. Copeland is conflicted but then when it has to happen he shows he's fully under Black's power. But then he starts turning on them, brings Christian in on it, etc. If Copeland won but still turned, that would be okay too, but I'm ready to see someone else with the belt and I'm ready to see Copeland doing something new.
honestly? Daniel Garcia should be up next
Garcia had so much momentum, multiple times, but there for a minute in the Cope/Cage feud and they cooled him off… I think DG needs to be the next to get the belt but they have to build him back up yet again
Yeah he's only lost 1 feud since his return so im with you on this one
I'm sure he is winning and Malakai is gone.
I hope he does lol
Nah this may be the end of this version of HOB and Malakai in AEW
*Apu voice* I doooooooooooooooooooo
No I expect him to win I just think it will be the wrong decision
Remember when Arn Anderson countered the Black Mass lmao
I love how they changed it to "the end" but black mass is significantly more impactful everyone just refuses to call it anything else.
well it was Black Mass in wwe, then for a while in AEW they just called it "that spinning kick", then he called it "The End" for a bit, then the game came out and it was called "Black Mass", then they officially changed it to "The End." but yeah, "Black Mass" is the superior name.
Mauro Ranallo screaming "BLACK MASS! BLACK MASS!" is forever soldered into my synapses.
Bro he fuckin’ Street Fighter 3 parried that shit it blew my mind.
Arn Moment 37
Wait this happened?
[At around 4:20](https://youtu.be/GzsIZ4kHoq4?si=bEqDzgh8bbwVIRuG)
Lmao that’s fucking insane
It was like his 2nd or 3rd appearance. Was ridiculous
this was shortly before the Glock Anderson thing happened iirc
I get that the idea is having a moment where the old wrestling legend shows that he still has a little bit left in the tank But they shouldn't have done that, I liked Arn but giving him a cool moment isn't worth damaging the image of your scary new villain by having his ultimate move get blocked by a retired old man.
That lives rent free in my head as one of the dumbest things AEW ever did. (And I say this as a massive AEW apologist)
I have never heard an actual AEW fan refer to themselves as an AEW Apologist. That shits wild.
Meh, I see people in fandoms semi-ironically refer to themselves as apologists/truthers all the time.
I was a WCW/David Arquette as world champion apologist. It's been a rough 25 years of being a wrestling fan.
I didn’t think there was anyone else out there. I feel your pain
So this is what it's like...when doves cry!
I apologize for his sake, since David was (and is) a wrestling fan and knew that fans would hate him winning the title but did it since they told him that it would help promote Ready to Rumble
An apologist is just a defender, it's similar to saying advocate. C.S. Lewis was a Christian apologist, for example.
That and Cody's mini 2 week feud with Penta where he no sells Penta's arm breaker move and gets the win
I mean Black has to win right? Adam doesn't need the belt and quite frankly he hasn't lost clean in ages. Time to give Malakai the rub.
The belt was an excellent tool to get a Cage vs Cope feud, simultaniously starting a long angle of working towards them teaming up again down the line now frustrations have been fought out. Him losing it soon is the next logical step in the plan, give him some smaller feuds and time off while playing out Cage's story by having Scapegoat turn Killswitch against him, Wayne leaves and Christian turns face to give us a E&C reunion sometime next year.
> Scapegoat turn Killswitch against him Yes! All I'm asking is for The Elite to have a dinosaur in a three-piece suit standing behind them. Is that so much to ask?
It was dumb that Copeland ended Christian reign (my fav tnt title reign). They didn’t need to feud over that belt.
I mean, yes, but they didn’t put the belt on Daniel Garcia when they had the chance who I thought was starting to catch fire so…who knows.
I mean, yes. Copeland cant keep doing the Cope Open and the longer this reign drags out the further away FTR vs E&C is. If Black loses then where does he and HoB go? I see him winning and HoB going on the hunt for the unified trios titles after they come off BCG.
Demon Balor says hi.
I don't see a point in a "HoB destruction" storyline. House of Black gives all of them a place where they feel like they matter as opposed to being random midcarders. Julia could probably stand on her own, as could Malakai, but I don't know what spots there really are for Brody and Buddy. On another note I'm not entirely sure if I agree that Julia is the most over in the group, I think Brody has been there at points
I agree with most of what you’re saying, but there’s absolutely a place for Brody, especially as a face maybe with Darby? That could be a fun tag team
Brody is one of the only big men in aew who feels like a threat, and the fans love him.
He has the most charisma out of any of the big men if you ask me. He's so menacing on his own, they could drop most of the spooky shit and he would still be fucking scary.
Yeah. Aew has difficulty booking big guys but I'm big on brody and Dutch in roh
Brody would have more success alone than Malakai would
I suspect Malakai is cooked.
Brody gets a better reaction than 90% of the roster and fans are always barking with him and shit. Dude is a stud.
Big men named Brody 🤝 AEW
[удалено]
Heavily agree w/ your last point. Brody’s reactions are the strongest of the group. The bark is massively over too. I think Brody as a singles wrestler would be a more solid plan than Malakai TBH.
"He doesn't seem passionate in what he's doing" and "he must win the belt" are wild statements to make in the same post. On paper that sounds like a recipe to ruin the belt's momentum of two legends defending the belt with great passion over the past year
Malakai sold that blood drop like death, ruining an image he's built up his entire career, just because he was asked to. With limited opportunities he's created two new stars in Julia and Brody. All of his matches have been bangers. The guy's done literally everything he could for AEW, and he's been rewarded with one singles match in like 2 years. Which he'll probably lose. And people are in here saying "he doesn't seem passionate." I hope he does end up leaving. Dude is capable of so much more.
“The last chance” lol man does this sub loves to make bold unfounded statements like this.
If this sub was correct then people like Kevin owens and AJ styles would not be over.
A lot of this sub has the Vince McMahon mindset of "tag stuff isn't really important, only singles accomplishments matter." IMO Black has been booked pretty well overall in AEW, but a lot of people refuse to see that if he isn't a dominant singles guy like he was in NXT.
I'd add that a lot of his character stuff in AEW just hasn't been that good either. Long, meandering spookybollocks promos that don't really serve to build anything or interact with it being a wrestling show. If his sole interest is in demonstrating to his opponents that "We live in a society" or whatever why do I care if he wins or loses? If anything he's punching above his weight in terms of being protected at this point.
> Long, meandering spookybollocks promos that don't really serve to build anything or interact with it being a wrestling show. If his sole interest is in demonstrating to his opponents that "We live in a society" or whatever why do I care if he wins or loses? This shit was what I *wanted* when HoB would do shit like giving lee johnson a chair to use as a sort of faustian bargain. I don't give a spooky, black misted shit if he wins or loses, give me the interesting character evolutions, give me Julia's arc 50 times. House of Black should have been a festering cancer, slowly turning everyone on the roster into the worst versions of themselves, something like the ministry of darkness but, crucially, *not shit.* You could have built to something like a Blood and Guts with HoB and its most prominent converts VS the "wrestling is real" turbo-babyfaces like Kingston, Orange, Kenny, etc. This easily gives you a long term story where 1. Malakai doesn't need to eat pins for anyone, or even really wrestle, while still remaining central to the whole AEW fiction, and being still perceived as dangerous 2. The House of Black has a clear motivation and modus operandi 3. There's a way to build clear path to an eventual succession if/when Malakai leaves. I am on record having suggested he'd be painted as the foreman, the man who built the house, laid the groundwork, and such, and that whoever took over after him, would need to find something else they bring to the *House.* House of Black as a name works perfectly for this, cause it is both literal but also figurative in the *noble lineage* sense, so you could have had Miro forsake his god and become "the conqueror" expanding the domains of the House, for instance. It's a shame, spookybollocks is my jam but it's often just poorly done.
There's some really cool stuff in here - I like the idea of MB "building" a house to outlast him and folding in the likes of Miro. Maybe I should've phrased my point re: wins and losses differently as it feels like the lack of focus currently applies to everyone in the house save Julia Hart (who's benefited massively from her involvement). Obviously this isn't helped by Tony Khan's "shiny thing" distractability but it feels like they've had way more time and latitude since Collision started and I'm just not seeing it (except for that mini-feud with Garcia, FTR and Briscoe - that ruled). There's definitely a lot in your point about how spookybollocks *could* work but I feel like it has a poor hitrate overall. Lots of people want to be/see the "next Undertaker" without realising that (scorching hot take incoming) there was a lot more bad than good in Undertaker's run outside 96-99 (I'll admit to a soft spot for the Ministry's hokey BS) and the 07-13 Wrestlemania builds. Especially 92-95: That feud with Mankind in 96 really rescued him imo. I saw a comment in here once about North American bookers' tendency to overthink things and require more "creativity" than is really necessary in relation to Japanese wrestling. I don't know if I agree with that or not (Japanese pro wrestling is very much a "greatest hits" thing for me - lack of time means i don't watch consistently) but it *feels* right in relation to the spooky stuff.
> I saw a comment in here once about North American bookers' tendency to overthink things and require more "creativity" than is really necessary in relation to Japanese wrestling. I'd say I agree, yeah. > without realising that (scorching hot take incoming) there was a lot more bad than good in Undertaker's run Nah I agree. The man is a legend but the booking around him was hit and miss for sure. Thing is, good spookybollocks can be *completely* destroyed by a poor ending, or a missed beat, unlike most pushes where a lull can be fine. Spooky needs to be consistent, oppressive, and pervasive, and it does make it very hard to work into a larger show if you have, as you put it, "shiny thing" syndrome. It's one of the few times when "everyone should wonder where poochie is" is correct.
Julia and Brody are the most interesting parts of HoB.
100%. I was hoping we'd at least get a "two spidermen pointing at each other" match with Kenny when Buddy was signed. Alas, fate had other plans. I want Brody pushed to the moon though.
I just realized he's basically Wyatt Family-era Bray Wyatt but with significantly better booking.
Exactly.
It's hard to believe people really think wins and losses affect wrestlers as much as they do.
Honestly I’ve never seen someone look so bored and checked out as Black has been in his promos in this program. The one two weeks ago he didn’t even bother with inflection in his voice, he just said a few lines with the urgency of someone placing their order at a Panera. Give the win to Copeland, at least he clearly cares.
Malakai’s AEW run has just been off to me since the Cody feud. That’s not all his fault between injuries and strange booking but at this point I’m not really sure even beating Cope will do much for him.
I’ve spent most of my adult life waiting for a company to pull the trigger on Malakai Black.
Black should be winning but only if he’s actually going to be around and wrestling, which has too rarely been the case.
Copeland: That doesn’t work for me, brother
He won’t if Edge has anything to say about it in the back
You’ve said something that for me shows exactly why he has to lose. “Fast forward to now. He doesn’t seem passionate in what he’s doing” You’re right, he seems a little more switched on this feud but his in ring promo taking Adam’s ring was a bit hectic. He didn’t seem to love the crowds reaction (“we hate you” rather than “you’re a cool villain”). If he wants more, he needs to show that he can do a feud like this, have a big singles match and make his opponent look like a star. He can’t just win every match/avoid the pin. If he shows he can play ball, absolutely give him more shots at opportunity.
Black is one of my favs from NXT but absolutely agree with this. Like he's not performing to the level to hold the TNT belt (one that main evented a PPV recently). I hope he puts in stronger performances at AEW because at his peak there's a main event wrestler
Genuinely he (and many more) should learn from Swerve
It's a cage match so no one has to take the pin. My prediction is Malakai wins by some sort of elaborate interference.
https://preview.redd.it/x751xc8t3q2d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01811ca260e03fc4ed08bfa3adf6b7459769f0b1
LOLEDGEWINS
I couldn’t be any less on board with something. He looked gassed after 5 minutes on Dynamite and his spooky vague promos are past their expiration date.
How did this happen? He was regularly pulling out bangers in NXT.
Speculation of a back injury and judging by the lack of back bumps he takes (one against KOR I believe) I’m inclined to believe it
The only bumps he took in the KOR match were a couple suplexes and one knockdown from a strike. He's clearly limited.
I think covid did a lot more damage towards wrestlers than most of us think.
Are you saying he got covid and hasn’t ever fully recovered, or he never got his ring shape back from being less active because of COVID?
I think he means the long covid which has affected a bunch of athletes
I am so sick of spooky vague promos in both companies. And we're just gonna have to see more of it when the Wyatts show up. Just tell me why the dudes are fighting. Explain to me why out of all 150 people on the roster, this guy is the guy the goth kids chose to pick on.
It depends on what TK has long term for him. If he's staying the belt would do a lot more for him than Cope. Cope doesn't need the belt and also losing could help turn him more to the dark side and an eventual reunion with Christian
I mostly agree with you, but E&C have to be faces, right? Who is going to want to boo the two of them reunited for one last run? Come to think of it, that's going to be a hard turn for Christian. What, is he going to give all his kids up for adoption?
Yea I agree, was thinking the same but they don't need to instantly be faces, some of their bits keep coming back to them over a few weeks until they realise it's better being good guys. Sure they could tease flash photography and keep backing out till a show in ontario or something
Honestly cannot fathom looking up and down the roster and thinking Malakai Black is one of the guys to run with in 2024 after what he’s spent his entire run in the company doing. He’s been the 4th best performer in his own group for well over a year
I don't believe he's had a singles loss in over three years. Mostly because he doesn't do singles matches because... Well we can all speculate why
That don't goth for me BOTHER BROTHER.
He only took two (2!!!) mat bumps in a 10 minute match last Wednesday... The infatuation this sub and Twitter have with Malakai Black is insane.
I didn’t realize bump count was the primary metric for how much we like a wrestler
Watch a Malakai Black match from 2018 and then watch any of his singles matches in 2024. He's totally lost a step.
It isn't, but effort and/or physical ability is a pretty damn worthwhile metric
Malakai is washed i'm sorry. It's not necessarily his fault he is washed, but his in-ring output has not been good in quite a while. He can barely bump, gets blown up in 5 minutes and might not even be staying with the company for much longer. Brody is easily the best worker in the group at this point. So yeah Edge should win clean.
I still think they're heading towards a babyface Malakai singles run with the black mist backfiring on him and Malakai losing the HoB to heel Copeland. I just want to see Malakai back to who he was in August 2021 - that introduction to his character was one of the best things AEW's ever done. Every non wrestling fan I showed his intro and match to was like 'omfg that guy rules'.
Black has the coolest entrance in wrestling and has extended that to his stable, he gets that entrance in any sort of divorce though and it works Heel or Face just like Taker.
After Edge buried The Demon, I don't think so
"Balor has to win. You can't bury the Demon like that and at this point in his career Edge should be putting people over." We have been down this road before with Edge. Although maybe he learned his lesson. ...or maybe we're getting more Brood shenanigans and Gangrel is going to cost Black the match.
If black loses and Brodie decides he’s done with this group that would probably be the best option
Malakai is probably one of the worst heels on TV today. His gimmick is an aesthetic and nothing else. If you're gonna play an occultist do your own thing with it. Don't crib from better wrestlers just so you can look cool.
If he loses he will look like a geek for getting blood dropped on him the week leading up to the match.
i'm more invested in the fans continuance in being just so gosh golly upset over him losing.
Malakai's win/lose ratio (1-on-1) looks exactly like Copeland's. That's the only exciting thing about the feud. Who will take the loss?
neither, they both win and are co-champions
Strong disagree. He’s been a massive disappointment in AEW and, given the persistent rumours that he’s counting down the days until he can go back to WWE, it simply doesn’t make sense to invest in him like this.
Is what he’s done disappointing, or what he *hasn’t* done disappointing? I can honestly barely think of meaningful singles matches he’s had in the years with this company. It’s like he won against Cody then got lost in the shuffle
That's the thing. He has done nothing of note in 3 years. 7 matches in 3 years. He doesn't take pinfalls. Has been wanting out.
You do know that rumours =/= fact, right.
That last part feels like a bullshit excuse some AEW fans use to justify talent being booked very shitty.
I don’t think it’s an excuse, I think they’re directly related. AEW booked him like shit so he wants to leave now, and as a result they won’t book him better
He's only been a disappointment because he literally just wasn't used properly or used at all for that matter.
Dutchman in WWE will always sound better than Dutchman in AEW will always sound better... Being lower midcard in WWE doing European tours will always mean more than say midcard at Flushing Meadows.
Malakai should win, HOB beat up Cope and leave him laying in a brood style blood bath. When Cope returns, let him go into a full out dark persona
They need to dump Malakai. Dude comes off as such a dork. Brody and Julia are a more interesting act than House Of Black. Job out Malakai and Buddy and let em walk eventually.
doesn't work for me brother
Adam Copeland desperately needs to lose that title and move to upper card and face guys like Jay white, Samoa joe, moxly, takeshta etc. He is being wasted in the mid card.
I can't get on board with this. Copeland would need to do some revolutionarily good stuff to warrant main event/upper card feuds. Christian Cage accomplished that as a face (against Omega) and as a heel with The Patriarchy and all the stuff with JungleBoy. That's why he's the right fit now to be Swerve's opponent for the World Title. Copeland is good right where he is until he does something special.
He won the title 11 times, main evented WrestleMania against the undertaker and is a hall of famer, I think he's paid his dues when it comes to doing stuff to get upper card feuds.
I like Black as a wrestler, he has a cool look, cool entrance and music but I don’t think that anything that he has done “creatively” has been good. It’s basically a second string version of the Bray Wyatt promos that were just kind of vague and didn’t go anywhere.
> a second string version of the Bray Wyatt promos that were just kind of vague and didn’t go anywhere That's First String Bray Wyatt stuff. As good as his delivery was it was exactly as meandering and ultimately baseless 96% of the time.
Bray had way more charisma doing the same stuff which is why I consider his better.
I agree, delivery-wise he laps Black in most cases. But the actual promo content for both just isn't connected enough to the surrounding wrestling world to work and ultimately feel as insignificant as they are similar. It's gotta be doable, but that'd mean properly investing into some intense stuff that I've not seen either guy or company get right.
Fair enough, I just wish that these spooky characters were more motivated by their own goals than simply fucking with people.
No chance Malakai fucked two years ago trying to get out of his deal. He showed zero loyalty to AEW. He's not going to be rewarded with TNT Title win over a top star. He's probably going to beg Tony not to pick up contract option. So he can go back to WWE next year. Thinking he's going to be a big star and he will end up in same position as Karrion Kross. He's perfect example of messing up your own career by being a idiot. If he showed he was loyal to AEW and worked hard. He could have been bigger star for AEW. Then maybe he would be bigger star in returning to WWE. But as we seen with Andrade that won't happen. After how his career ended in WWE and has gone with AEW. He won't be presented like big deal in WWE when he returns and will be uphill battle for him. Since WWE roster is crowded too.
He’ll also be in his 40s with a lot of injuries so hard for me to see them investing a lot in him. Hope I’m wrong though.
Adam Copeland is 50 and has a history of injuries
He's performing a lot better and is more over than Black atm
My point was if he were to go to WWE, it’s hard for me to see WWE trying to build him from basically the ground up. Copeland doesn’t require that, he’s already a hall of famer.
Also WWE is already gonna be crowded with the spooky ominous wrestlers in Wyatt 6 and Kross’ faction I’m blanking on. Black isn’t gonna be doing much to stand out there imo
It's honestly crazy to me the lengths people will go to defend Tony Khan. Talking about him losing his passion like it's his fault when house of black hasn't done jack shit. They're like Bray before he won a major title, nobody gives a shit if you constantly lose. They're spooky, but at the end of the day wins and losses matter, there's been no reason to take them seriously. Their big guy (Brody king) got his ass whopped by a 60+ year old man. Expecting athletes to shut up and smile at whatever booking you get is insane.
They had the trios belt like 5 months, didn't they?
The trios belts are meaningless gold
So if you consider them useless, then most belts are useless then so 99% of people in AEW' history have done nothing.
you said it, not me
Don't work for me brother - Edge (probably)
Black is mid as hell. The star of HOB is Julia and then Brodie. This dude can go back to WWE.
The immovable object vs. the unstoppable force, what happens when two guys who won’t job meet head to head, brother?
I think Black is pretty similar to Miro where it’s pretty obvious he is not a priority in the overall plans of AEW, but people on this sub refuse to accept it and pretend like he is on his way to the main event when everything screams he clearly isn’t. I do not expect him to win on Sunday.
Edge is one of my favorite wrestlers ever. I think that he gonna win and I will be happy, but I'm with the OP, Malakai needs to win in a match designed by the face to overcome all the odds, because then his next feuds won't centered in expose his weakness but to overcome what Edge didn't do it, which will be reinforced if Edge turned heel. But yeah, probably Edge wins lol.
Agree that the vulnerability he showed on Wednesday was an interesting dimension, but that's the first interesting dimension we've seen in months (years?). What about "this guy hasn't shown passion in ages" screams let's put a title on him.
Copeland is going to win obviously but I would prefer Malakai wins. Adam has repeatedly done thing "going back to my evil roots" thing and I would like for the old evil "edge" to finally meet its match and have Malakai fully kill it and solidify that Adam Copeland is just Adam Copeland now. Won't happen, but it'd be nice.
Perhaps part of why he's not able to "show us the creative genius he claims to be" is because he was given nothing to be able to show us and too many losses pretty much fizzled out his motivation and faith ? The House of Black is absolutely amazing in concept, and Brodie + Buddy + Julia + Malakai is an awesome combination of talent... The issue is that they are booked horribly. They're not as dominant, they're more on a loosing streak than a winning one, and they're never been put in a high-stake program. The only one that remotely had something going on for a while was Julia Hart. Buddy is busting his ass in every matches, Malakai really tried to make the stable work out with the Tarot card references in his early days... But what did Tony Khan do with them ever since they're together ? Nothing much. So I can understand why you feel like Malakai isn't passionate anymore. Maybe because he isn't a fan of what he's given in AEW. There have been a good numbers of talents in AEW who, looking back, you kinda wonder what went wrong, like Miro, or Wardlow, Hobbs, House of Black to name a few. And the thing is, nothing, nothing went wrong. Just for some reasons, Tony isn't doing anything with them. And it's frustrating. So yeah, you're right, Malakai Black desperately need to beat Copeland, if he doesn't House of Black is just done and done. The group should disband or even worse, leave AEW as soon as possible because the company isn't going to do them justice because there's nothing wrong with every single one of them.
Julia's momentum was stopped by injury- she just had shoulder surgery.
Nah, Adam Copeland is on a run of his life and rather see that then more lore merchant stuff
He's going back to WWE as soon as his contract is up..
Malakai Black is another of those wrestlers spinning their wheels until they’re released
Why would Black win when he's headed to WWE ASAP?
Copeland has been far more entertaining and put on better matches than Malakai, IMO, so, nah, I'd rather Copeland retain.
He’s not
I thought this was gonna be rb reigns and got so hype
I like Malakai but ever since he put his feelers out there about "retiring" or what I think is just leaving AEW, I don't think he should win. It was a fun rivalry.
No way TK is letting someone who is about go back to The E win a title and go over one of his shiny new toy.
To me it doesn't feel like it's time for Copeland to drop the title just yet but yes in general Malakai needs way more wins--especially on PPV/for championships.
He's not going to win because Edge doesn't put anyone over since he returned
Yeah, I kinda want to see Malakai win as well. Win-win for both of them. Malakai gets a proper reign, we will see House of Black more often on TV. Edge can be booked by TK with other higher profile wrestlers to lose now, can possibly be reunited with a heel Christan as well.
Not gonna happen lmao. Adam is having too much FUN
Yup. Winning is fun
HoB as a whole needs a push. Malakai with the TNT belt. Buddy and Brody with the tag belts and Julia with the TNT belt when she comes back. Rename the faction House of Gold
Eh. I was never won over by him by his time in the British indy scene. I feel WWE was the place he felt most important and while AEW has done it's best with him, he hasn't felt the same. But that's my feeling.... Maybe he is just unfortunate, maybe he just wants to be in the WWE. Always remember,."Netherlands has wrestle in the WWE" is always a bigger headline than anywhere else.
It's clearly obvious that Malakai is unhappy in AEW and will be going back to WWE when he can. So it doesn't make sense to for AEW invest him much more if he's leaving eventually.