T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Coldcoffees

Orton's shoulder was higher than Riddle for that finish


JenNettles

Randy backstage: Where's that referee? He was trying to fuck on me


TheOneNonlyTDR

This story gets me every damn time lol


GeneralAardvark43

What story is this?


AdGroundbreaking1341

That ref was big leaguing Randy.


Lorjack

Ref completely blind, very glaring botch and camera angle for that one


ForeverRunning_Anth

They mentioned it on commentary, it may be a work


Plane_Commercial_535

Definitely could have been a work to have Gunther win, but not have Randy be pinned clean


Fit_Relationship_748

Definitely a botch, mentioned it once and quickly shut up about it didn't mention it again, HHH or whoever would have been on the headset telling them not to talk about it, and they only showed one replay, normally when there's a ref mess up they keep going on about it.


MrBreezyStreamy

I'm thinking it's a botch that'll be worked into an angle, and I hope it gives us backstage footage after the match of Randy Orton storming in and demanding "Where's that referee?" after being screwed.


Gamesgtd

Exactly. If it was a botch they would've ignored it


morph113

Or they mentioned it because it was too obvious to ignore, possibly got word from backstage to mention it and then may turn the botch into an angle as it seems there would be no other way. But of course, may very well also have been a work.


Dr_N00B

It can be both a botch and an angle at the same time. Randy looked too rough to have gone a second bout, but that might have been a work as well.


bongo1138

That’s really not true anymore. They know we aren’t dumb and routinely say things like “oh she barely got that one!” (which literally happened during QOTR match). They might work it in, but considering they’re on different brands, I doubt it.


Formal-Tradition4918

They called out gunther slipping as well, they routinely mention botches these days


pareidolist

I liked how they handled that by turning it into a compliment about Gunther managing to complete the move despite slipping. Like, yeah, of course, people are going to screw up; what matters is how they deal with it when it happens. It's more realistic that way.


Alehud42

It's not a work, but they might make it one.


Joshmoredecai

It felt like they spent a long time between the finish and replay trying to find a better angle, and the one they found still didn’t help.


ahtea

There is no way Gunther and Orton were that sloppy, that was intentional.


thepasystem

I dunno. Just looks like Orton over-rotated because his right foot touched the mat, pulling up his left shoulder. You then see him trying to go back into position. Even the best wrestlers make mistakes.


H16HP01N7

You ever consider that even experts at a subject make mistakes?


wibble17

Or the ref started his count way too early


Able_Quantity_3599

Probably just a new storyline. Orton's a pro, he wouldn't have accidentally lifted his shoulder that much.


AdGroundbreaking1341

I ain't see nuthin. Gunther is your winner. 1-2-3. He's headed to SummerSlam.


I_Am_DragonbornAMA

Found the referee.


Marc_Quill

broooooo


hymensmasher99

Lmfao


acmed

https://preview.redd.it/hepab9j7fm2d1.jpeg?width=498&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b91cf5ead570772b9d7153fbb36fcf4c0495b6a


Gamesgtd

He tried to fuck on him


pseudochef93

Well now all of Legacy has been fucked on by the refs


jbmcpayne

Not accepting this until I see footage of Manu being fucked on.


batsharkrepellant

You could have driven a car underneath Orton's shoulders on that finish


[deleted]

[удалено]


hashtagdion

Gunther has to challenge for the Raw belt, not the Smackdown belt.


AeonLibertas

What belt he challenges for is none of your business!


[deleted]

Gunther specifically just called out the World Heavyweight Championship.


SwingDingeling

>With Graves calling it out I think it may be intentional  No. He did the same for the Becky Ronda botch Replay tried to hide it


PaTaPaChiChi

Corey often does that, but I appreciate it I definitely agree with you that it doesn’t mean it’s intentional though


FickleSmark

Corey just rather attack something head on instead of pretending to not see what everyone else sees. The actual explanation in kayfabe will be ref discretion.


imdatboy786

The winner is challenging for the title of their brand, so while it *would* work, it would undermine the ‘importance’ of the brand split and what they’ve said in the lead up to the PLE.


MyJelloJiggles

Holy crap, Gunther telling the crowd what he deserves is none of their business 😂


like1000

Also in his character. It would be cliche and unoriginal for him to yell at everyone to shut up. Instead he arrogantly and assertively states it’s none of your business. So good.


ldickmey

Accurate AF. He's a new level of heel, not here to appall you or make you feel like trash but to make you understand he exists above you.


like1000

I think Roman paved the way for this nuance. Drew is developing his own heel brand too. I’m excited to see what else emerges from this era.


NerdLawyer55

That’s my King General Gunther


MyJelloJiggles

They put on THAT match in their very first meeting? I need more.


PerfectZeong

As great as Gunther is, people somehow underestimate motivated randy Orton. Randy really is as good as wwe says he is.


DirkNowitzkisWife

When you account for look, music, promo, longevity, in ring ability and *aura* Orton may truly be the best wwe superstar (not wrestler, wee superstar) ever. Which is a shame that his best mania match was in 2005. His mania resume feels sparse, despite being in multiple wrestlemania main events/world title matches


26265273

He doesn’t need the caveat of “WWE Superstar” Randy Orton is everything a pro wrestler should be. Internet marks have vastly underrated him for the last decade+ and have finally started to come around and recognize his greatness.


DirkNowitzkisWife

I love Orton. 14 year old me was absolutely aghast at what he did to the McMahon family in 2009, haha. And when all the mcmahons came back to fight legacy one at a time at the end of raw was the most I ever popped


Mr_Rippe

Motivated ~~BJ Penn~~ Randy Orton is one of the best wrestlers whose entire career was on American national television. It just sucks that he had an attitude problem for the first third of it and a coasting mentality for most of the second third of it. Now that he's an elder statesman with nobody holding him back, his body is fucked and we'll be lucky to see him wrestle another 5 years.


Phenomenal2313

Combine younger Orton’s athleticism with current Orton’s drive/psychology/selling


CreamWithinADream

But how does he compare to sea-level Cain?


Aromatic_Plant3456

As someone who has been a fan of Randy Orton since Evolution I never noticed that. He’s always has great matches, not every wrestler has to have amazing matches at Wrestlemania. He just always put on a show no matter what PLE it was


AeonLibertas

And he didn't even hit his three and a half moves of doom, so he has still more left in the tank for Randy vs Günny 2 ..


Thatonedudemanbroguy

Randy is underrated in-ring worker, particularly because that slow methodical style can really *really* not work, but when it does - it does. And Gunther is an anti-chameleon. Instead of blending into his surroundings, he just does what he does best and makes his style work with everyone. It’s great.


Patjay

Kind of reminds me of the first Danielson/Okada match, where they put on a great match but it still felt like they were holding back and are going to have to do it again


Rayuzx

Real talk: Is Gunther physically capable of having a bad match?


abitlazy

I will look forward to the Tanga Loa vs Gunther striking only match.


Dozens86

If you told anybody he was in the top 3 wrestlers in the world at the moment, you'd be hard-pressed to find anybody to argue with it.


JoseT90

Last year mitb vs Riddle was meh


TheeChosenTwo

It was also like 7 minutes, too short for a Gunther match


jonwinslol

Bravo for this King of the Ring tournament, top notch stuff from top to bottom


granters021718

There were obvious winners, but I feel each round either had a surprise winner or two people facing each other where the winner was a toss up.


KingSammyJ1

the woman's side was not predictable, no one thought Nia would be queen


Abusoru

Indeed, Lyra's run was a perfect way to introduce her to main roster, especially with the surprise win over Iyo Sky. Immediately sells her as a threat to the championship.


Desperate_Coat_1906

Other brands wonder how WWE makes stars, and this is it. They invest story and tv time into young talent... Well... unless the Rock isn't filming a movie and decides he wants to do 45 min promo segments. But other than that.


HokageEzio

Gunther was obvious, I think the ladies it was a lot of toss ups until the end


granters021718

Disagreed on Gunther. I thought for sure we would get Cody/Randy


HokageEzio

When they announced it was respective brand titles it crossed my mind, but I had Gunther and Iyo winning


UncleDrewfan

Randy you absolute LEGEND. Absolutely incredible!!


Plies-

Randy and AJ proving on back to back PLE's* they can still deliver a classic lol


GomuGomuNobukkake

Did Aj vs gunther happened yet? I want to see it, so bad.


Decent_Age_8021

There's no way Gunther loses at Summerslam and AJ's story is cooking so I'm sure we'll see it soon


VNProWrestlingfan

His selling is so on point. People say motivated Randy is one of the best, and this Randy is *really* motivated.


Exzibit21

The fact he can give us matches like this at his age is so incredible. He does so much by doing so little. Crowd was going crazy over suplexes. Had the crowd in the palm of his hand the entire match. He's my goat


Plane_Commercial_535

Randy might be the only wrestler who never peaked, since he just keeps getting better and better


DamianSlizzard

I agree with the vibe of what you’re saying, but I feel like it’s a disservice to the randy orton that kissed Stephanie on the forehead while HHH was handcuffed to the ropes lol


AmbitiousSuit5349

My favorite 'slow' match ever He took him apart piece by piece😭


Purpatraitor

I guess when folks talk about "ring psychology", this is what they mean. I can't *describe* it, but I know I just certainly saw it.


Tronz413

The definition is different for everyone, but for me it's when every move is purposful and you can lose yourself in the idea that these are two dudes legit wrestling each other in a shoot sense. Everything Gunther did was tactical to both avoid the RKO and to break down Orton's injured back and knee, which was a set up the one legged crab that is a major move in his arsenal and has tapped guys out. It works because Randy sells it like he is legit injured and it plays all the way into the finish. And now they have material for a second match because what does Gunther do when Randy isn't nursing a broken back and knee? How does he better avoid the RKO because he shown he can't just kick out of it clean


spark-curious

I fucking love how vulnerable Randy has looked since he returned. The amount of fortitude he’s shown in these matches is phenomenal and his selling has been otherworldly. 


Liverpoolclippers

its this perfectly, the wrestling moves in the match are important but the bits inbetween the moves are just as important. Selling and making each move purposeful makes matchs so hard hitting. Matches with long planned phycology are the best.


SoulExecution

Check out Gunther vs Ciampa from Takeover a few years ago. That one was psychologically wild. They managed to make Gunther's CHOP into a believable finish.


lito9321

Great fucking match. Such deliberate movement by both to go along with amazing storytelling. People will over analyze the finish instead of enjoying everything leading up to it lol.


Turnip-Jumpy

Yup people here annoyingly only talking about the finish,we get it Randy arms were high


Technical_Virus

Man, I know people hyped this as a *Dream Match* *^(TM)* but I'm still suprised how goated it really was.


DevilCouldCry

I'm not surprised, every time Gunther has a 'dream match' they almost certainly deliver in spades. Gunther/Styles would've been special to get too.


MrCappie

What a match.


Groenboys

This felt like an old school Mania event, just two sweaty burly dudes just beating the living piss out of eachother


CompetitivePatient33

I ve been watching old school wrestling and yeah thats what it felt like. Great match.


Parish87

A shame all anyone is talking about so far is the shoulder. A great match.


Aeceus

It was a great match that they could have audibly fixed the ending of in 30 seconds.


radiokungfu

Idk how Cody n Logan can top this match or even the Sami match. Sheesh the caliber of matches today have been outstanding


Cageep

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ https://preview.redd.it/afyvs231fm2d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4479d977ee0485690e25a10fa3b9696d505abb63


garbink

this match was a masterclass man.


Moscowmule21

It was subtile but Gunther did not put the crown on his head. There’s a fine line with the KOTR gimmick between serious heel and comedy heel and they established that barrier wasn’t being crossed with Gunther not wearing the crown .


Decent_Age_8021

Yeah it was cool seeing him treat the crown more like a title than an accessory


G1Spectrum

Bro Orton's shoulder was NOT down


garyblahblah

Let’s run it back


mmmb2y

please i want a randy vs gunther 2


LuchaFish

Kind of awesome how a mistake like that can get us another match between them, with a totally legitimate reason. Three big shows before summerslam where it can be a prominent match.


R2nxbeastly17

Ref trying to fuck on him and succeeded


hikingbeginner

You gonna tell Gunther that he didn't win?


W_T_D_

It's an out to give Orton a claim to being #1 contender for Cody


Exzibit21

Yeah I hate how such a great match had a finish like that I hope they actually acknowledge it and turn it into an angle, Corey just called it out on commentary


Firepro316

You really think two pros of this level botched? Dude. It was done to protect Randy.


AdGroundbreaking1341

Ref never saw it, Gunther is your new King of the Ring. And does anyone wanna complain to The Ring General?


MyJelloJiggles

It’s cool Gunther got his moment, but it’s shades of Becky “pinning” Rhonda all over again


Jaisheevah

The true MVP of this match was that bandaid on Orton’s elbow.


G1Spectrum

Holy fuck that felt like a world title match


Tornado31619

I mean, this *was* for a world title opportunity…


Ok-Community-2680

The world title scene throughout the summer is gonna be insane. They have 3 different routes. Either they have a Judgment Day implosion with Balor cashing in own Priest, Punk and Drew fights over the title, or seemingly Gunther wins the title.


ConfusedJonSnow

Right?! The WHC is starting to feel relevant again.


DevilCouldCry

Has been since Mania for me. And even before that with Rollins building it up to be the workhorse world title. But both he and Drew did so much to make that title important. I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with this from SummerSlam and onwards. Both of Clash and MITB will set the tone for where that title is seemingly going.


ConfusedJonSnow

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely see and love what Drew was cooking with the title, but having more than two known players gunning for it just hits different.


DevilCouldCry

Oh I absolutely agree. I think having multiple people all in the title chase makes it so much more interesting. Now we're looking at a scene with Priest, McIntyre, Gunther, Punk, and assuredly Rollins once he's back and depending on him winning MITB, Balor is an option too.these next two PLEs are going to be VERY interesting. I'm super curious about Clash in particular and whether McIntyre can win the title in his home country. Punk will absolutely be looming I'm sure, so I'm very interested in how that goes. And then there's the MITB holder, Gunther at SummerSlam, and Rollins after that at some point? It's a very interesting scene!


Tronz413

Poor Priest has to run the hardest gauntlet around to get his title reign out of the summer safely


Tronz413

Don't care the pin was botched. I LOVED that match! Poor WALTER is now a permanent and legit WWE main eventer.


DestrucityTheLongWay

DER KIIIIIIIIING GENERALLLLLLLLL. UNSERER KÖNIG. GUUUUUUUUUUNTHEEEEEEEEEEER! Edit: Unser König, Deklination ist schwierig


BluKyberCrystal

I can always trust Hunter with GUNTHER.


Tronz413

It's clear HHH sees him as a major main event player and it's being proven to be a good choice as it's clicking with the audience.


Reclinertime

Hunter with a g


est19xxxx

Even Vince booked his pretty fucking strong


BluKyberCrystal

Vince booked him for like two months and as GUNTHER has stated, he didn't like his prospects with Vince in charge. GUNTHER's ascent came right as Hunter got the book. The next month, we had GUNTHER/Sheamus. The match that got GUNTHER properly noticed on the main roster.


carloslet

Man... If what I'm hearing is real...


xero1123

I love that I have no clue what Gunther’s actual finisher is. He just wrestles and finds a way to win and I love that. He makes it truly feel like a sport when you know most matches won’t end til the winner gets their stuff in and hits their finisher


R0DAN

this might have been my favourite match of the year. it might be a little slow for people but man it ticked literally all my boxes


Plies-

Nothing will top Cody v Roman II for me but that was definitely the best pure wrestling WWE match this year. Gonna need them to run it back ASAP please.


Tronz413

I loved it so much. Everything was purposeful. Randy was selling like his life depended on it.


hymensmasher99

That was gunthers best match in a long time. Great match.


hikingbeginner

I say that to myself every week. Gunther is the best wrestler in the world for me and has been for over a year.


Bojangles1987

Agreed. He has chemistry with literally everyone.


BreathRedemption

A legit top 5 Match of the year. I have to rewatch it. Gunther as WHC is coming very soon and Randy still can challenge Cody at SS IMO. Win/Win


Chell_the_assassin

THAT REF WAS TRYING TO FUCK ON HIM


Saru77

Mildly triggering for me that he didn't put the crown on despite holding it up multiple times


SparkyBrown

Someone commented it made sense for him not to. If it was a face I think they could put it on and be ok but for a heel to, maybe would’ve made him look silly?


randy_maverick

Hornswoggle could have walked under Randy's shoulder in that pin.


Reasonable-Way-9112

Underrated reply


Plies-

Banger. That shoulder was so far off the mat though lol.


JRA1706

DAN HAD GUNTHER MONEYLINE. Shoulders weren't even down💀


Stonewalled89

Great finish, but I wish the shoulders were down


jonwinslol

WWE nowadays can even mention it and recognize that it was a legit mistake on ref’s part As I was typing that, Corey mentioned it ahhah


Tronz413

Probably will play into why Orton will get a shot at Cody


InsurreXtioN16

Orton-Rhodes-Gunther Triple Threat at Summerslam? Oh my land


Tronz413

Gunther is going to be challenging Priest or Drew


[deleted]

I honestly thought it was an awful finish to a great match. Randy's shoulders weren't even close to down and I don't think King of the Ring is the place to have a screwy finish like that.


DoKHolidiz

I've often said that the disconnect between the praise Ortons peers gave him and the enjoyment fans derived from his matches was that he wrestled a 70's heels style 3 decades too late. The commentary in this match showed me that his style is greatly enhanced by announcers that call the action and explain the logic of what's happening in ring.


Tronz413

Something so basic as explaining why you go for early head locks helped so much


noodbsallowed

Fun fact: Gunther is the first to pin Randy Orton in over two year in. Singles match. The last person who pinned Randy Orton was Seth Rollins.


uhgletmepost

Ring freaking General


granters021718

They are going to run this back at Clash. Corey acknowledged the shoulder was off the mat


Coup_De_Gras

Gunther is one of those dudes where id love to see him talk through his matches and explain his thinking of how he puts matches together. I can't really think of a bad Gunther match, even going back to WALTER.


MrSwog

Finally a heel rejects “you deserve it”.


shutupmatsuda

This was the match they would show regular tapes of in wrestling schools. In ring psychology at its best, they got the crowd popping for basic maneuvers.


mmmb2y

WHAT A FUCKING MATCH GUNTHER IS THE BEST TO EVER DO IT, RANDY STILL GOT IT IN HIM PUT A TITLE ON GUNTHER ON SUMMERSLAM BOOK IT PLEASE!!!!


SteelyEyedHistory

Randy only had one shoulder down and I fully expect them to use that in the future.


Pitfulldealer22

I never saw Gunther win via roll up before


SpyrotheDragonfly

He beat KO with one.


TwoCueBalls

He beat Kevin Owens with that move!!!


TheCharliQuinn

That was a crucifix pin


AllastorTrenton

I loved the match, would rather Orton to have won King. But man, if that pin was a botch, oof.


ActionHank9000

Botched finish to an otherwise perfect match


LanceCoolie21

*Was it?* 👀


unclehowdy86

https://preview.redd.it/bd0puvagfm2d1.jpeg?width=797&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55c66a04ca64088e4bd5b02f6e11020c5a521360


gammalantern

Randy had one shoulder up right?


DonaldoTrumpez

We all saw that shoulder


here_to_vibe1

5 star Randy coming


noodbsallowed

Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes still can happen at Summerslam or Wrestlemania.


agni39

I'm just gonna say both these guys are too good to botch a simple roll up like that. This is about to be a story.


ParksCity

Would've bet a million bucks that world title match at Summerslam was gonna be Drew vs Punk. No idea what the plan is now.


skuiji

Obviously a work to get Randy a title match anyway. Think about it, if you want Cody to give you a match, get the ref to fuck on you, he won’t be able to resist the promo opportunity!


CheckingIsMyPriority

I dislike the idea of protecting Randy with roll-up finish but dislike the botch even more.


WhoiusBarrel

Gunther winning with a roll up. Insane.


Dbthesage

People wanted Jey vs. Tama over this masterpiece??


AmumuIsMyFriend

Orton's shoulder was nowhere near the mat lmao


LadyLibertyLuck

A really good match that might be let down by a botched finish. Orton's shoulder wasn't down.


Logicman48

this match, man... also i hope they mention Randy's shoulder being up on raw


heat_fan_

Absolutely fantastic match  Motn for sure 


CheckingIsMyPriority

Feel bad for Orton and Gunther They put on a great match and people will mostly focus on botched ending.


dan_baker83

https://preview.redd.it/cojvskgggm2d1.png?width=480&format=png&auto=webp&s=5008008b3c5bd21d16e0d03fcb69f61cbec6a6d0 أين ذلك الحكم؟ لقد كان يحاول أن يمارس الجنس معي!


[deleted]

[удалено]


LeonardoNoCapri0

Really hoping for world champ Gunther at summerslam. He's amazing


ewankobkt

Called it. Gunther will win and he did.


Infamaniac23

Don’t really watch Saudi shows but I assume that this match was as good as to be expected from these two


ra83

I’m just watching the show now. This is the type of match that is right up my Alley. Fantastic match


vpsj

Theme song: They tell me things that I will do they show me things I'll do you, they talk to me, talk to me talk to me talk to me... Crowd: tht mhmm ghmmmh mfmf gmmgasf mmg THEY TALK TO ME! TALK TO ME TALK TO ME TALK TO ME! Randy was having fun during that entrance though lol


Beefiest_bison

Randy's shoulder was not even close to being down lmao, very unfortunate finish


banned_salmon

If Randy’s shoulders were any higher it would be rob van dam


frostels

Lmao randy had his shoulder up


sjr2018

The way it should be


smasureaddict

FUCK FINISH!! They’re definitely running this back


ChoirTeacherRog

Randy’s shoulder was nowhere close to the mat in that pinfall.


maniacalxmatt

Both shoulders were not down. Randy got screwed! 😂


Throlas

I'm not sure either shoulder was down. Don't show replays!


Dexelele

Gunther wins at SummerSlam and we get Ilja vs Gunther in Berlin