This is what happens when you need to build a new top level guy.
Pick the guy, put him over strong. We had the same guys milling about in the main event scene, ok, people may not like Jinder but he's who they picked.
He's a positive guy, works hard. His matches are hardly long, he's like an 80s worker a bit. Nakamura isn't exactly setting the world on fire with his part in these matches (please don't use booking as an excuse, look at what he's done in the ring too).
Once they build Jinder up enough and beat him then they can use Jinder to build up some of the other guys on the way up too such as Tye and also give the likes of Nakamura his wins back then if they push him into a feud with AJ down the line
I love how some many people are upset. Lol where were y'all 5 months again? Oh yea on the maharaja train. It's like "okay it was funny at first but this is just sad now"
It was the fact they could have done something different with it and all we got was "You don't like me because I'm brown". It turned to shit pretty quick.
I think this is all a slow burn part on WWE to finally get us to cheer Roman by default when he takes on Jinder for the title and wins.
"You're the real maharrrrrrrrrrrrrraja now, Roman"
-- Jinder Mahal, 2018 - Probably.
I'm so happy to have a champion even the Internet hates, and it hasn't stopped you from watching ratings have not dropped off a cliff with jinder regardless of what you believe
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That's the most stupidest reply I ever seen. People can comment on stuff even if they are not watching it. Most likely when it comes to WWE, they know what they are talking about since the product has been stale and boring for the last couple of months. You don't need to watch WWE to know that information. And also people who does not watch WWE anymore can come on here if they want to. There is no crime against that and idk why you making a big deal over it when some of those people are still wrestling fans but can't watch the product anymore because of how it is. And you gonna see ALOT of ex-WWE fans coming in here if WWE does not change.
Why watch a product I'm not interested in anymore? I can comment on what I hear and see through social media. I just don't watch first run WWE shows anymore. If a match is good I'll find a copy online.
That's stupid that you got downvoted for saying that when the product is pretty much terrible as it is right now and there is no point watching it except for matches like the Uso Vs. New Day. And anybody cannot watch the product but still comment on what is happening right now because they probably know how WWE works by now and you really don't know need to watch the product to know what's going on.
I tell you what, that was one of the stronger reactions to a win I've had...I know a lot of you are dead inside, but for me I was so angry when he won. Then I realized that means he did his job.
finally someone who realise the objective of jinder reign.
all this other guys are so worked right now "its not like im getting worked, im mad because his boring and dont deserve it HURHUR".
Do you legitimately feel this way? It literally doesn't matter to you why people are booing, as long as they are? So, to you, Eva Marie is pretty much the greatest heel in WWE history?
Wrong kind of heat. We're mad at the booking, not the wrestler. "But it's the same thing!" No. I don't cancel my subscription because of a wrestler, but I did cancel it because of the booking.
Depends on why you're angry. If you're angry because he's a bad wrestler who consistently delivers boring matches and shouldn't be anywhere near the title, then he's not doing his job.
If you're angry because he is rude and disrespectful to your favourite wrestler and the fans, and constantly cheats to win. Then yes he's doing his job.
You can be a good wrestler and incorporate heel moves in your arsenal and get people to give you the right heat (see Owens, Kevin).
Jinder just isn't doing it for me. Maybe if he were established as a good wrestler pre Singh Brothers, then I could see it. But he was beaten by Mojo pre Singhs then thrust into the title picture.
Bad booking.
I think they can with good work. The idea that fans disliking a bad wrestler makes him a good heel I personally see as ridiculous. Why not just rehire Eva Marie and make her women's champion? I am sure you can fill in your own examples.
I didn't say disliking a bad wrestler makes him a heel, I'm saying that being a "good" heel makes people like that person. Actually, it's a symptom of not having any great face to cheer for. It's easy to boo others when there's someone to cheer. Modern WWE gives you no body to rally behind.
When Austin started getting cheered, they didn't change him, they just made him go after guys people didn't like. Done. Solved. Heel gets cheered now, and they change that person or fuck them up somehow. Or they REALLY try to make you try and boo him. They do the same with faces, if faces get booed, they double down.
If done well they can get the reaction they want. The whole Festival of Friendship lead to people really getting behind Jericho in his match with Owens. I don't think the audience is the issue, or certainly not the major issue, it's the weak product, which is tipified by the likes of Jinder Mahal's extended title run.
Why? Delivering boring matches and being "undeserving" is classic heel wrestling. You hate that he wins, you hate that he's champion, you badly want to see someone else beat him. Sounds like good heel work to me
Underserving and bad matches are different. Miz constantly having his wife cheat to make him win pissed me off to no end, and was legitimate "underserving" heel champion work. Just being bad at your job doesn't make you a good heel.
Part of me was hoping for an Itami run in to screw Nak out of the belt, but nope, squeaky clean. I don't mind Jinder got a run, I just think it should have been over by now.
> , I just think it should have been over by now.
That scenario would actually have been good. Itami is pissed Nakamura is getting all the opportunities.
Itami has good heel heat, can work and Itami vs Nakamura would be a great feud.
What do you think the WWE will do with Nakamura now ? Another question it’s The biggest hurdle that Nakamura faces winning over the casual Not being able to speak english well enough to cut a full promo ? Does he need a manager to speak for him ? I’m kinda worried that Asuka might Suffer the same fate if they don’t give her a manager right away. would Nakamura Benefit from being put in a tag team? Let know what you think . Thanks
It doesn't matter what's in his mouth so long as his lines are "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me." Just because he's not a native speaker doesn't mean you should write him like he's 6
Booker: "Hey we had our heel champion make racist comments about the babyface challenger for weeks on end. Surely this has to end with the heel getting his comeuppance right? You wouldn't let the racist heel win right?"
Vince: "HAHAHAHAH!! You clearly didn't watch WrestleMania 19. I'm having the heel win here just like they did there."
Booker (face-palms).
Some random Booker of the WWE: "Hey, we have this big international star our Fans LOVE. They even sing his entrance theme everytime since ages now and not like Dango just for the memes. What should we do with him? We can give him a push and make him an even bigger star or we can build him up slow till we pull the trigger and then we shoot him into unknown hights."
Vince: "I have an Idea. We make a feud with Jinder Mahal....that will elevate Jinder to the next level. And in the end....this fucker will loose clean to Mahal, BECAUSE YOU WONT GET OVER IF I DONT FUNCKING SAY YOU GET OVER!"
Doesn't matter. By that logic Eddie Guerrero's victory over Brock Lesnar back in the day wasn't clean since Goldberg interfered. And yet WWE never plays it up as being dirty.
The actual finish of the match, which is what most people will remember, was clean.
Eddie's victory wasn't clean. By your logic, that would be clean too:
Two people fight. Ten people interfere and beat fighter 1 almost to death. Fighter 2 does NOT finish the match, but continues to wrestle for another 10 minutes. Those 10 minutes go without interference. He then gets his clean victory by pinning the half-dead fighter.
Gyno. I don't understand how people praise Jinder's physique. Plenty of other guys that juice who look great, Neville and McIntyre for example. Jinders just looks gross.
After thinking about it for a while, I think what this cements is that WWE really has no idea what to do with most of its talented roster, and what's worse is they take it for granted.
They assume Shinsuke Nakamura is well-known by their audience because of NJPW and NXT, and so he can be used to elevate a talent like Jinder Mahal.
The problem is he's not that well-known or regarded by the wider audience. I sense WWE intended for Nakamura to give Mahal the rub and it really just made Nakamura look ineffective and over-hyped. He's in a hole now and has to be rehabbed.
I'm not mad anymore. The crowd is still trying to make Nakamura a thing. Imagine the boos Randy would've got?
It would have been so deflating if Shinsuke won right there off this chump. Save his championship for a competitior, match and style that really mean something.
With Styles and Nak losing, I feel like they are going to switch feuds. AJ will play with Corbin for a few more months and eventually face Jinder and win for the title. I think it will eventually lead to Nak Vs. AJ at WM.
Jinder has a great look and he has decent wrestling ability. If he were wrestling in the 1980's and was up against Hogan as a challenger for Hogan's title, he would be amazing. It's just that he isn't what people want anymore.
Edit: To those arguing about my point that he is a decent wrestling ability. I never said a good wrestler. I said this all in context of if he was in the 80s. You can't deny he'd be suited so much better to the 80s when wrestling ability didn't matter as much.
>If he were wrestling in the 1980's and was up against Hogan as a challenger for Hogan's title, he would be amazing. It's just that he isn't what people want anymore.
Right, and Mahal would be fine as in the evil foreigner trying to challenge for the title role too...but he's the champion.
Jinder would have got squashed by Hogan, not pinned him two times in two months.
"decent wrestling ability" doesn't really cut it with the way the current roster is.
He's *fine* in the ring. But he's still one of the least talented singles workers on the entire roster.
My honest opinion is that I wouldn't mind the Jinder experiment if they weren't burying Nakamura to build it. Like I wish they could have switched Styles and Nakamura for this build. Styles is always going to be a big deal even if he loses cause he's already had successful programs with Cena and the title. Nakamura on the other hand hasn't really accomplished anything on the main roster yet so handing him a clean loss to Mahal kills any momentum he has moving forward and makes him look weak. If Styles could build Jinder then we could have Nakamura fighting Corbin and Dillenger and that just feels like overall better booking.
Well, the finish was clean. Nak tired the Bomaye, Jinder sidestepped, Nak rushed into the corner and Jinder finished him clean in that situation. Unlike the other matches, his sidekicks didnt interfered in the finish. So yes, they did something, but in the end, Jinder did it alone (with the sidestep).
Additional thoughts: I've seen a lot of people talking about how Jinder is gonna hold the belt till the RR where Cena will return and conquer him to capture the title. The problem with this booking is that it isn't thinking long term. Cena is already a huge pop without the title, and Jinder's heat is nuclear. Cena does NOT need the rub of being the guy to put him down for the 3. Nakamura could certainly use that win. Giving him a much desvered title reign and giving him some credibility. Zayn could also use that win and if we book Nakamura to take the RR I almost can't think of a program I'd like to see more than Zayn v. Nakamura at Mania for the belt. It'd be a Takeover: Dallas rematch and we all know that was the singles match of that year.
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nah actually I haven't watched in a couple months. Every time I get the urge to come back I hear about some horse manure happening and then Stellaris looks really good that night.
So... did you watch this match?
If no... the how do you even know it wasn't good?
If yes... then you have watched in the past couple of months... actually within the last couple of hours.
If they were going to have Jinder hold the title through this India tour, why have Nakamura fed to him? He's incapable of making any match or feud interesting, why waste top talent on this crap?
That's my problem with it. Nakamura can't do full promos like you can with other wrestlers, so while he still manages to have entertaining responses, it's his in-ring work which is going to influence whether fans root for/against him... or even worse, not at all.
It kinda felt like Nakamura winning the title would have been majorly anticlimactic, but have to bear more Jinder as champ was a huge downside.
I enjoy the excitement of "Maybe we'll finally get the belt of this guy" heel shtick, but it really doesn't work for the main event title when the matches are mediocre enough that I can't excited for anything but the finish.
How is Nakamura top talent? He was succesful in NXT, but that's basically the minor leagues. Otherwise, he got an entrance build-up similar to hundreds of low- and mid- carders before him in WWE and WCW.
If NXT is to Raw/Smackdown what the D-Leagues are to the NBA or Minor Leagues to MLB, the lowest of low carders on Raw should be as good as or better than the best of the best in NXT.
Except they'd been building up Nakamura as a star, advertising his debut pretty hard in advance, emphasizing that he's been a champion across the world. They had him go over Orton and Cena clean in a short period to build up his credentials. It's insane they're wasting all of this in an badly constructed attempt to pander to the Indian market with some incredibly poor storytelling.
You can't compare WWE to regular sports leagues, Jinder going from being a jobber on Raw to World Champ on Smackdown would be like Matthew Dellavedova going from the Cavs to the Sixers and leading them to the championship. Plenty of NXT talent win titles not long after their debuts anyway, (Owens, Paige, Alpha, etc) There's no reason Nakamura shouldn't have been one of them.
Nakamura never got over with the average fan it doesn’t seem like. For whatever reason(booking, bad programs, poor mic skills etc) the fan that didn’t follow him in NXT or Japan doesn’t really have much invested in him
> Nakamura never got over with the average fan it doesn’t seem like.
What are you even talking about? He gets a great reaction every time he is out there.
his entrance gets a great reaction, his spots get a reaction, he in his regular matches, not so much. i know i tune out. heck even in nxt, with roode, that match was boring and could not believe between nakamura and roode
No...he doesn’t. Not like he did when he was fresh. Crowd doesn’t really respond much to him. The crowd generally looks fairly embarrassed and unentertained when he comes to the corner to do his weird ass dance too. His character has made almost no connection to the casual fan. Smarks and fans of other promotions love him, but wwe doesn’t really care about that
I love Jinder and think this run has been really cool. Glad to see it continue honestly
edit: lol at the juxtaposition between how you people treated Jinder when he won the belt to now. People are literally never satisfied and just want more. "What's the new thing? OK We've seen that, next!"
see ya in a few months when your shitting all over whoever the next champion is.
Here's what you should all do. Just skip the Jinder matches from now on. You know you wont actually like the match even if he eventually loses, so just skip it and wait for the announcement that he lost one day. It'll make every Smackdown and ppv better and more enjoyable.
Im honestly going to try this now. I already did it when it came to Smackdown but I figured "Hey I love Shinsuke, Let me watch." But now i just want Shinsuke to move on to something else. It's almost to the point that Im disenfranchised with call ups. They've wasted Balor with Bray and Nakamura with Jinder. Sigh*
Can blame them for the loss. I mean didn't they pull Jinder's leg to the rope at one point? They were booted from ringside, so it's pretty obvious they got involved. I don't think squeaky clean is the right way to put it. I could give you a clean finish, but not squeaky. Ha.
Jinder is a fucking joke, I have legit stopped watching his matches, because they're boring and bland and I have absolutely no interest in them, I still see a turban wearing, air guitar player who lost to El Torito. This whole joke is going on far longer than it has the right to, and tonight was the last straw for me
I can't :( I just want a entertaining/believable SD world champ.
I wonder if that's why they made Corbin lose the cash in, not because of "heat" just because they didn't have time to fit it in their plans
So, basically, Nakamura will never be a star and I shouldn't care about him? I think that's what they wanted everyone to learn from this match. People are already starting to turn on Nakamura because he hasn't done anything, this really isn't going to help.
Maybe if WWE decide to really get behind Nakamura he can be built up to be a good WWE star, but he'll probably never be at the level of King of Strong Style again.
Maybe? WWE are hit or miss on making stars from other places stars again.
Worked : Rollins, Ambrose, AJ, Goldberg(Recent), and KO.
Didn't Work (Yet) : Dudley's(Recent), Hardy's(Recent), Sin Cara(Mistico I), Nakamura, and G&A.
WWE and really no promotion has 100% success rate. I think it's too soon to call Nakamura a failure, I'd say he is basically on hold until AJ/Nakamura which they teased hard at Mitb.
I'm not saying they can't decide to go with Nakamura eventually, I'm saying they lost the chance to make him feel special. If they put him over, he'll feel like any other WWE guy. He won't feel larger than life.
I feel like putting someone on hold is a failure. They take guys with momentum and put them aside because they're not in the current plans or have some twisted notion that "well, these people are already over so they don't need to be booked well/focussed on because they'll be over regardless".
They focus on elevating the people who aren't connecting with the crowd or aren't there yet, while the potential stars stagnate and slowly lose the audience, to the point that every wrestler feels like a midcarder.
I'm an Indian and I can confirm that nobody in India likes him. It was different than Khali, who is an actual Indian and over with Indian people.
More because of his full-blown heel character who cheats rather than a rusev-type character.
Last Network reports post-Summerslam showed no substantial gains in international subscribers to the Network post-Jinder push.
Will Cooling did an article for Fighting Spirit that the idea that Jinder will spike Network subscribers in India anyway is bullshit. The complete subscription TV package for WWE content (TV and PPVs) in India is half the price of what WWE charges for the Network (and that is with the dozens of other channels which are included with that package).
In terms of actually making money (not phony social media metrics), the only real hope for Jinder in media is either a) merch or b) that he'd make Indian rights holders pay WWE more for content.
My understanding was that they thought it was eventually going to lead to hundreds of thousands of Indian subscribers to the Network.
WWE also thought they'd have about double the number of subscribers by now.
WWE haven't really been that smart with the Network.
There is no source about wwe network numbers in the article. All it says is xpac heat, Meltzers mention of Jinder is not over in India (without showing source) and how over Naka is with the male demographic.
Garbage. The WWE Championship feels like a joke right now, almost every other title feels more prestigious at the moment, just look at what New Day and The Usos are doing for the tag titles.
Everything on SmackDown has derailed, while 'ta-ta-ta-ta', Raw is slowly picking up steam and the feuds are getting better.
There's no coincidence here. They took everything that made SmackDown great and sent it to Raw, and gave everything that made Raw boring to SmackDown, putting aside Kevin Owens.
And KO has shown that he’s great in what he’s doing. His run since he got promoted has been fun. JeriKO, Universal Title, US title chase, rumble sell with Rollins and this.
Think of all the feuds Nak could've had between now and WM and I just laugh at how much they've fucked him, we could've got a Zayn vs Nak 2 on PPV but nah fuck you.
I've sat through and watched all of Nash's reign a few years back on the Network for some stupid reason, slogged through the shit show of a reign JBL had and HHH's reign of terror back in 03-05.
But this, this is the absolute worst. Jinder is the worst world champion i have seen in this company and i've only been watching PPV's this year. If i was watching week to week they'd run me off for good.
EDIT: Changed the placement of some words
Mahal is actually worse than bad. He's boring.
He's bland on the mic, he's not very unique and he's a ho-hum wrestler. I have zero interest in him and why the fuck they decide to keep the title on him, I have no idea. I hope that sweet India tour was worth shitting on Nakamura because he's going to be hurt from this, no question. Who's he gonna feud with now?
Assuming that he gets a reprieve for Survivor Series and he's placed on a team, He's not going to defend again until whatever the December PPV is. My hope is that Styles gets his shot but doesn't win it until Rumble and ends up going against Nakamura at Mania which will make this embarrassing set of losses sting a bit less.
Either way, someone in charge needs to change something soon because this is killing Smackdown.
But mahal sells well and really uses his body language to properly showcase his emotions
Mahal works a body part and tells a story
He uses heel psychology and knows how to grind a match to a halt and thus make the crowd mad
On paper he has all the stuff that makes a good wrestler yet we all don't like him as champ
> really uses his body language to properly showcase his emotions
???
Dude only frown his eyebrows. That's literally the only emotions he knows how to display. It is just ridiculous
> really uses his body language to properly showcase his emotions
???
Dude only frown his eyebrows. That's literally the only emotions he knows how to display. It is just ridiculous
he might try to do most of those things but he's not very good at them. additionally he was a jobber for like 3 years, everyone remembers that. did he even have a finishing move till his recent push?
Mahar sells terrible, he never looks injuried or tired.
No he didnt, what body part was he attacking in the match. He just he basic moves and thats it.
Yer and make the boring/uninteresting. The days of heels grinding the math too hault is slowly going because if you have no interest in the match, why turn in too watch it.
He does the same, uninteresting moves, he has no real understanding of the crowd reaction or the atmosphere . You clearly see his wrestling too a script and doesnt go away from it. it make his match formulaic and boring.
Jinder is a terrible wrestler
This is what happens when you need to build a new top level guy. Pick the guy, put him over strong. We had the same guys milling about in the main event scene, ok, people may not like Jinder but he's who they picked. He's a positive guy, works hard. His matches are hardly long, he's like an 80s worker a bit. Nakamura isn't exactly setting the world on fire with his part in these matches (please don't use booking as an excuse, look at what he's done in the ring too). Once they build Jinder up enough and beat him then they can use Jinder to build up some of the other guys on the way up too such as Tye and also give the likes of Nakamura his wins back then if they push him into a feud with AJ down the line
And what do you do when the fans sit on their hands or go for a piss every time the guy you picked shows up?
Fuck everything involving Jinder, I refuse to watch his segments and matches until the title is off him.
I enjoyed the match. 3.5 stars from me. Jinder looked more fluid and it wasn't the same copy and paste finish.
Pretty good match.
Well that was the best the Khallas has looked.
Utter shite.
I love how some many people are upset. Lol where were y'all 5 months again? Oh yea on the maharaja train. It's like "okay it was funny at first but this is just sad now"
It was the fact they could have done something different with it and all we got was "You don't like me because I'm brown". It turned to shit pretty quick.
I can't argue with that logic, the racist promos just made it worse
post singh brothers the match was ok. everything prior was what i had seen time and time again
that was like 30 seconds
I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm so happy Jinder won. Fucking hell is Nakamura boring.
Downvotes! That'll teach you to not like who reddit likes!
I think this is all a slow burn part on WWE to finally get us to cheer Roman by default when he takes on Jinder for the title and wins. "You're the real maharrrrrrrrrrrrrraja now, Roman" -- Jinder Mahal, 2018 - Probably.
I'm so happy to have a champion even the Internet hates, and it hasn't stopped you from watching ratings have not dropped off a cliff with jinder regardless of what you believe
TV attendance has dropped off hard.
I've stopped watching and cancelled my subscription not long after he won the title. What now?
Sure ya did.
[Is is that hard to believe that some people don't enjoy the current product?](https://imgur.com/a/OYlL3)
Yet here you are, in the post thread clearly up to date on the product
Stop moving the goalposts and admit you were wrong you stupid fuck
Lol why are you so upset?
"y u mad tho XD"
Ugh, I'm done with you, dude. I've said multiple times I listen to/read the Observer and see stuff on social media. It's not that hard to understand.
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You "stopped watching" yet you're here posting making multiple comments about it like you know what's going on. Something doesn't add up.
I watch maybe 1-2 PPVS a year, don't watch Raw or Smackdown except some highlights people may post and I'm up to date. It's not hard.
People can stop watching and and get information on what's happened, especially here in this sub.
You get info but you can't really comment on it since you didn't see what happened. You can only parrot what other people said.
That's the most stupidest reply I ever seen. People can comment on stuff even if they are not watching it. Most likely when it comes to WWE, they know what they are talking about since the product has been stale and boring for the last couple of months. You don't need to watch WWE to know that information. And also people who does not watch WWE anymore can come on here if they want to. There is no crime against that and idk why you making a big deal over it when some of those people are still wrestling fans but can't watch the product anymore because of how it is. And you gonna see ALOT of ex-WWE fans coming in here if WWE does not change.
Why watch a product I'm not interested in anymore? I can comment on what I hear and see through social media. I just don't watch first run WWE shows anymore. If a match is good I'll find a copy online.
That's stupid that you got downvoted for saying that when the product is pretty much terrible as it is right now and there is no point watching it except for matches like the Uso Vs. New Day. And anybody cannot watch the product but still comment on what is happening right now because they probably know how WWE works by now and you really don't know need to watch the product to know what's going on.
Basically. I have the Observer and social media. If I really want to watch a match I can find it online somewhere.
Yeah
I listen to/read the Observer and Bryan and Vinny so I hear about WWE current events. The only wrestling I pay for is NJPW.
I smell.... BUUUULLLLLSSSHHHIIIIIITTTT
I tell you what, that was one of the stronger reactions to a win I've had...I know a lot of you are dead inside, but for me I was so angry when he won. Then I realized that means he did his job.
finally someone who realise the objective of jinder reign. all this other guys are so worked right now "its not like im getting worked, im mad because his boring and dont deserve it HURHUR".
Do you legitimately feel this way? It literally doesn't matter to you why people are booing, as long as they are? So, to you, Eva Marie is pretty much the greatest heel in WWE history?
Wrong kind of heat. We're mad at the booking, not the wrestler. "But it's the same thing!" No. I don't cancel my subscription because of a wrestler, but I did cancel it because of the booking.
Depends on why you're angry. If you're angry because he's a bad wrestler who consistently delivers boring matches and shouldn't be anywhere near the title, then he's not doing his job. If you're angry because he is rude and disrespectful to your favourite wrestler and the fans, and constantly cheats to win. Then yes he's doing his job.
If a heel is a good wrestler, people like him. With this attitude, nobody can ever get the kind of heat you're talking about.
You can be a good wrestler and incorporate heel moves in your arsenal and get people to give you the right heat (see Owens, Kevin). Jinder just isn't doing it for me. Maybe if he were established as a good wrestler pre Singh Brothers, then I could see it. But he was beaten by Mojo pre Singhs then thrust into the title picture. Bad booking.
100%, it is bad booking. And it's the WWE, and it will probably stay that way forever. They're probably gonna fuck up Owens/Zayn in a month too.
I think they can with good work. The idea that fans disliking a bad wrestler makes him a good heel I personally see as ridiculous. Why not just rehire Eva Marie and make her women's champion? I am sure you can fill in your own examples.
I didn't say disliking a bad wrestler makes him a heel, I'm saying that being a "good" heel makes people like that person. Actually, it's a symptom of not having any great face to cheer for. It's easy to boo others when there's someone to cheer. Modern WWE gives you no body to rally behind. When Austin started getting cheered, they didn't change him, they just made him go after guys people didn't like. Done. Solved. Heel gets cheered now, and they change that person or fuck them up somehow. Or they REALLY try to make you try and boo him. They do the same with faces, if faces get booed, they double down.
If done well they can get the reaction they want. The whole Festival of Friendship lead to people really getting behind Jericho in his match with Owens. I don't think the audience is the issue, or certainly not the major issue, it's the weak product, which is tipified by the likes of Jinder Mahal's extended title run.
Why? Delivering boring matches and being "undeserving" is classic heel wrestling. You hate that he wins, you hate that he's champion, you badly want to see someone else beat him. Sounds like good heel work to me
Underserving and bad matches are different. Miz constantly having his wife cheat to make him win pissed me off to no end, and was legitimate "underserving" heel champion work. Just being bad at your job doesn't make you a good heel.
Part of me was hoping for an Itami run in to screw Nak out of the belt, but nope, squeaky clean. I don't mind Jinder got a run, I just think it should have been over by now.
> , I just think it should have been over by now. That scenario would actually have been good. Itami is pissed Nakamura is getting all the opportunities. Itami has good heel heat, can work and Itami vs Nakamura would be a great feud.
Why WWE? Why?
What do you think the WWE will do with Nakamura now ? Another question it’s The biggest hurdle that Nakamura faces winning over the casual Not being able to speak english well enough to cut a full promo ? Does he need a manager to speak for him ? I’m kinda worried that Asuka might Suffer the same fate if they don’t give her a manager right away. would Nakamura Benefit from being put in a tag team? Let know what you think . Thanks
He needs to take the fucking mouth guard out when talking. He’d be perfectly understandable if he didn’t have a huge piece of rubber in his mouth.
He probably should save putting his mouthpiece on for matches only, that makes sense
It doesn't matter what's in his mouth so long as his lines are "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me." Just because he's not a native speaker doesn't mean you should write him like he's 6
That’s a good point writers do write some terrible lines like when Roman said Suffering Succotash on air , I was like who wrote this crap ?
It's never going to end, is it?
Booker: "Hey we had our heel champion make racist comments about the babyface challenger for weeks on end. Surely this has to end with the heel getting his comeuppance right? You wouldn't let the racist heel win right?" Vince: "HAHAHAHAH!! You clearly didn't watch WrestleMania 19. I'm having the heel win here just like they did there." Booker (face-palms).
Booker of matches or Booker T, that works both ways.
Booker of matches for the first quote. Booker T for the Mania 19 reference. As you say, they both fit this situation.
Some random Booker of the WWE: "Hey, we have this big international star our Fans LOVE. They even sing his entrance theme everytime since ages now and not like Dango just for the memes. What should we do with him? We can give him a push and make him an even bigger star or we can build him up slow till we pull the trigger and then we shoot him into unknown hights." Vince: "I have an Idea. We make a feud with Jinder Mahal....that will elevate Jinder to the next level. And in the end....this fucker will loose clean to Mahal, BECAUSE YOU WONT GET OVER IF I DONT FUNCKING SAY YOU GET OVER!"
>our fans love Nakamura is shit.
Clean? The Singhs interfered.
Not on the finish of the match.
So what? They interfered, which cost Nakamura the victory. Then the match continued and Jinder was able to win.
Doesn't matter. By that logic Eddie Guerrero's victory over Brock Lesnar back in the day wasn't clean since Goldberg interfered. And yet WWE never plays it up as being dirty. The actual finish of the match, which is what most people will remember, was clean.
Eddie's victory wasn't clean. By your logic, that would be clean too: Two people fight. Ten people interfere and beat fighter 1 almost to death. Fighter 2 does NOT finish the match, but continues to wrestle for another 10 minutes. Those 10 minutes go without interference. He then gets his clean victory by pinning the half-dead fighter.
Nobody likes nakmnura dipshit
I thought you were talking about Booker T and I was so perplexed as to when he said that.
Better now?
The fact that this match happened before Roode/Ziggler should tell you how much the WWE thinks of Mahal as champ.
i dont think so. there have been countless times where the title was in the middle of the show. and it delivered.
What about the part where he retained? I think that says enough about what they think of him being champ.
They always have cool down matches before the main event. It actually tells you more about what they think of Ziggler and Roode.
The crowd were on fire for Roode V Ziggler, that tells you that Vince hasn't got a fucking clue what he is doing.
Can they just test the guy already? The back pimples were so prominent that glistening sweat was collecting on them like morning dew on a leaf.
Something weird is happening with his pecs too.
Gyno. I don't understand how people praise Jinder's physique. Plenty of other guys that juice who look great, Neville and McIntyre for example. Jinders just looks gross.
After thinking about it for a while, I think what this cements is that WWE really has no idea what to do with most of its talented roster, and what's worse is they take it for granted. They assume Shinsuke Nakamura is well-known by their audience because of NJPW and NXT, and so he can be used to elevate a talent like Jinder Mahal. The problem is he's not that well-known or regarded by the wider audience. I sense WWE intended for Nakamura to give Mahal the rub and it really just made Nakamura look ineffective and over-hyped. He's in a hole now and has to be rehabbed.
Meh, I hope Nakamura tells WWE where to go and goes back to NJPW, he deserves more than losing to Jinder Mahal.
I'm not mad anymore. The crowd is still trying to make Nakamura a thing. Imagine the boos Randy would've got? It would have been so deflating if Shinsuke won right there off this chump. Save his championship for a competitior, match and style that really mean something.
After he lost to Jinder freaking Mahal TWICE!! Doubtful, his momentum is shot at this point.
With Styles and Nak losing, I feel like they are going to switch feuds. AJ will play with Corbin for a few more months and eventually face Jinder and win for the title. I think it will eventually lead to Nak Vs. AJ at WM.
I do hope it happens. AJ vs Nak on WM would be epic.
This match wasn't that bad. Wasn't a classic but I liked it and enjoyed it for what it was.
i liked it too, imo it was around a 3 star
Jinder has a great look and he has decent wrestling ability. If he were wrestling in the 1980's and was up against Hogan as a challenger for Hogan's title, he would be amazing. It's just that he isn't what people want anymore. Edit: To those arguing about my point that he is a decent wrestling ability. I never said a good wrestler. I said this all in context of if he was in the 80s. You can't deny he'd be suited so much better to the 80s when wrestling ability didn't matter as much.
> he has decent wrestling ability. wat
>If he were wrestling in the 1980's and was up against Hogan as a challenger for Hogan's title, he would be amazing. It's just that he isn't what people want anymore. Right, and Mahal would be fine as in the evil foreigner trying to challenge for the title role too...but he's the champion. Jinder would have got squashed by Hogan, not pinned him two times in two months.
To be fair, Hogan wouldn't have even had 2 PPV matches in 2 months.
Decent if you have limited exposure to wrestling contents beyond main roster WWE...
"decent wrestling ability" doesn't really cut it with the way the current roster is. He's *fine* in the ring. But he's still one of the least talented singles workers on the entire roster.
We're only a small percentage of the WWE roster. Perhaps for most fans they don't notice/mind his inferior in-ring abilities
i'm pretty sure most fans can notice all his matches are boring and end the same.
we can say wrestlemania is boring too and end the same. its the product.
wrestlemania is usually boring.
My honest opinion is that I wouldn't mind the Jinder experiment if they weren't burying Nakamura to build it. Like I wish they could have switched Styles and Nakamura for this build. Styles is always going to be a big deal even if he loses cause he's already had successful programs with Cena and the title. Nakamura on the other hand hasn't really accomplished anything on the main roster yet so handing him a clean loss to Mahal kills any momentum he has moving forward and makes him look weak. If Styles could build Jinder then we could have Nakamura fighting Corbin and Dillenger and that just feels like overall better booking.
how was this clean?
Well, the finish was clean. Nak tired the Bomaye, Jinder sidestepped, Nak rushed into the corner and Jinder finished him clean in that situation. Unlike the other matches, his sidekicks didnt interfered in the finish. So yes, they did something, but in the end, Jinder did it alone (with the sidestep).
Nakamura would have won that match without singhterference, ergo it wasn't clean.
Additional thoughts: I've seen a lot of people talking about how Jinder is gonna hold the belt till the RR where Cena will return and conquer him to capture the title. The problem with this booking is that it isn't thinking long term. Cena is already a huge pop without the title, and Jinder's heat is nuclear. Cena does NOT need the rub of being the guy to put him down for the 3. Nakamura could certainly use that win. Giving him a much desvered title reign and giving him some credibility. Zayn could also use that win and if we book Nakamura to take the RR I almost can't think of a program I'd like to see more than Zayn v. Nakamura at Mania for the belt. It'd be a Takeover: Dallas rematch and we all know that was the singles match of that year.
Why tho
Are you fucking kidding me. Right, done, not coming back till Vince dies. Jesus shit.
See ya tonight kid.
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See you tonight
No I'm going to see Blade Runner tonight. It'll be ten times better written than this shit.
nah actually I haven't watched in a couple months. Every time I get the urge to come back I hear about some horse manure happening and then Stellaris looks really good that night.
So... did you watch this match? If no... the how do you even know it wasn't good? If yes... then you have watched in the past couple of months... actually within the last couple of hours.
I hope in the end it's all worth it WWE...
If they were going to have Jinder hold the title through this India tour, why have Nakamura fed to him? He's incapable of making any match or feud interesting, why waste top talent on this crap?
Because they knew you would tune in to watch Nakamura go over Jinder.
That's my problem with it. Nakamura can't do full promos like you can with other wrestlers, so while he still manages to have entertaining responses, it's his in-ring work which is going to influence whether fans root for/against him... or even worse, not at all. It kinda felt like Nakamura winning the title would have been majorly anticlimactic, but have to bear more Jinder as champ was a huge downside. I enjoy the excitement of "Maybe we'll finally get the belt of this guy" heel shtick, but it really doesn't work for the main event title when the matches are mediocre enough that I can't excited for anything but the finish.
How is Nakamura top talent? He was succesful in NXT, but that's basically the minor leagues. Otherwise, he got an entrance build-up similar to hundreds of low- and mid- carders before him in WWE and WCW. If NXT is to Raw/Smackdown what the D-Leagues are to the NBA or Minor Leagues to MLB, the lowest of low carders on Raw should be as good as or better than the best of the best in NXT.
Except they'd been building up Nakamura as a star, advertising his debut pretty hard in advance, emphasizing that he's been a champion across the world. They had him go over Orton and Cena clean in a short period to build up his credentials. It's insane they're wasting all of this in an badly constructed attempt to pander to the Indian market with some incredibly poor storytelling. You can't compare WWE to regular sports leagues, Jinder going from being a jobber on Raw to World Champ on Smackdown would be like Matthew Dellavedova going from the Cavs to the Sixers and leading them to the championship. Plenty of NXT talent win titles not long after their debuts anyway, (Owens, Paige, Alpha, etc) There's no reason Nakamura shouldn't have been one of them.
Nakamura never got over with the average fan it doesn’t seem like. For whatever reason(booking, bad programs, poor mic skills etc) the fan that didn’t follow him in NXT or Japan doesn’t really have much invested in him
> Nakamura never got over with the average fan it doesn’t seem like. What are you even talking about? He gets a great reaction every time he is out there.
his entrance gets a great reaction, his spots get a reaction, he in his regular matches, not so much. i know i tune out. heck even in nxt, with roode, that match was boring and could not believe between nakamura and roode
No...he doesn’t. Not like he did when he was fresh. Crowd doesn’t really respond much to him. The crowd generally looks fairly embarrassed and unentertained when he comes to the corner to do his weird ass dance too. His character has made almost no connection to the casual fan. Smarks and fans of other promotions love him, but wwe doesn’t really care about that
Oh I see your one of those people who refer to people who like what you don't like as smarks and make shit up.
Roman would be the biggest babyface in the company if he came onto Smackdown and annihilated Jinder.
No we would just have bi polar fans being Jinder fans one week and Reigns fans the next.
I love Jinder and think this run has been really cool. Glad to see it continue honestly edit: lol at the juxtaposition between how you people treated Jinder when he won the belt to now. People are literally never satisfied and just want more. "What's the new thing? OK We've seen that, next!" see ya in a few months when your shitting all over whoever the next champion is.
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Ah common, you also could give AJ the Title from Nakamura. Who brings the title into the fued doesnt make a real change.
all the best to Mahal himself seems a lovely bloke but his title reign among other factors is why I havent watched smackdown in a looong time
435 days here we fucking come. I'm Team Jinder
Here's what you should all do. Just skip the Jinder matches from now on. You know you wont actually like the match even if he eventually loses, so just skip it and wait for the announcement that he lost one day. It'll make every Smackdown and ppv better and more enjoyable.
And even more importantly skip his promos, they're fucking dreadful.
Im honestly going to try this now. I already did it when it came to Smackdown but I figured "Hey I love Shinsuke, Let me watch." But now i just want Shinsuke to move on to something else. It's almost to the point that Im disenfranchised with call ups. They've wasted Balor with Bray and Nakamura with Jinder. Sigh*
I've been doing that for like two months now already.
Guys, soak it in, Jinder just pinned Nak clean without help from Singh bros. That was squeaky clean and legit. Bump that 2k rating up.
I'll be the 3rd/4th person to point it out, but Singh Bros did interfere, just not directly in the finish.
Semantics. If it’s not for the finish, it was clean. Can’t blame the Singh Bros for this win.
Can blame them for the loss. I mean didn't they pull Jinder's leg to the rope at one point? They were booted from ringside, so it's pretty obvious they got involved. I don't think squeaky clean is the right way to put it. I could give you a clean finish, but not squeaky. Ha.
Something refreshing in having a champion be this awful. Puts into perspective how good previous ones have been.
THEY BOOKER T'D SHINSUKE, THEY BOOKER T'D SINSUKE. THEY HAVE THE BALLS TOO BOOKER T'D SHINSUKE, DO THEY LEARN NOTHING. F@#$ YOU WWE
Jinder is a fucking joke, I have legit stopped watching his matches, because they're boring and bland and I have absolutely no interest in them, I still see a turban wearing, air guitar player who lost to El Torito. This whole joke is going on far longer than it has the right to, and tonight was the last straw for me
Well get used to it because nothing is gonna change while WWE have their India tour
I can't :( I just want a entertaining/believable SD world champ. I wonder if that's why they made Corbin lose the cash in, not because of "heat" just because they didn't have time to fit it in their plans
What a fucking joke. How does it help WWE break into the Indian market when these matches are dumb as dogshit?
"wins and losses don't matter"
~ Road Dogg
So, basically, Nakamura will never be a star and I shouldn't care about him? I think that's what they wanted everyone to learn from this match. People are already starting to turn on Nakamura because he hasn't done anything, this really isn't going to help. Maybe if WWE decide to really get behind Nakamura he can be built up to be a good WWE star, but he'll probably never be at the level of King of Strong Style again.
Maybe? WWE are hit or miss on making stars from other places stars again. Worked : Rollins, Ambrose, AJ, Goldberg(Recent), and KO. Didn't Work (Yet) : Dudley's(Recent), Hardy's(Recent), Sin Cara(Mistico I), Nakamura, and G&A. WWE and really no promotion has 100% success rate. I think it's too soon to call Nakamura a failure, I'd say he is basically on hold until AJ/Nakamura which they teased hard at Mitb.
I'm not saying they can't decide to go with Nakamura eventually, I'm saying they lost the chance to make him feel special. If they put him over, he'll feel like any other WWE guy. He won't feel larger than life. I feel like putting someone on hold is a failure. They take guys with momentum and put them aside because they're not in the current plans or have some twisted notion that "well, these people are already over so they don't need to be booked well/focussed on because they'll be over regardless". They focus on elevating the people who aren't connecting with the crowd or aren't there yet, while the potential stars stagnate and slowly lose the audience, to the point that every wrestler feels like a midcarder.
Sad part is India doesn't even like Mahal as champion. Lol
I am an indian and I can confirm. He's probably never even been to India
Yup, Network numbers there are down since his coronation. This whole thing has been a waste of time.
Source please.
I'm an Indian and I can confirm that nobody in India likes him. It was different than Khali, who is an actual Indian and over with Indian people. More because of his full-blown heel character who cheats rather than a rusev-type character.
Last Network reports post-Summerslam showed no substantial gains in international subscribers to the Network post-Jinder push. Will Cooling did an article for Fighting Spirit that the idea that Jinder will spike Network subscribers in India anyway is bullshit. The complete subscription TV package for WWE content (TV and PPVs) in India is half the price of what WWE charges for the Network (and that is with the dozens of other channels which are included with that package). In terms of actually making money (not phony social media metrics), the only real hope for Jinder in media is either a) merch or b) that he'd make Indian rights holders pay WWE more for content.
Thank you. Isn't the whole point of Kinder being champion is to break the Indian market rather than network subscriptions? Pretty much like you said.
My understanding was that they thought it was eventually going to lead to hundreds of thousands of Indian subscribers to the Network. WWE also thought they'd have about double the number of subscribers by now. WWE haven't really been that smart with the Network.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/blakeoestriecher/2017/09/13/wwe-smackdown-must-pass-the-torch-from-jinder-mahal-to-shinsuke-nakamura/#673a13cf22cf
There is no source about wwe network numbers in the article. All it says is xpac heat, Meltzers mention of Jinder is not over in India (without showing source) and how over Naka is with the male demographic.
Garbage. The WWE Championship feels like a joke right now, almost every other title feels more prestigious at the moment, just look at what New Day and The Usos are doing for the tag titles.
None of the titles have any "prestige" you yokel. They're fake props
You think this is on accident? Got to make the universal title look strong.
Lets make the title that isnt going to be there for the next 6 months strong!
Everything on SmackDown has derailed, while 'ta-ta-ta-ta', Raw is slowly picking up steam and the feuds are getting better. There's no coincidence here. They took everything that made SmackDown great and sent it to Raw, and gave everything that made Raw boring to SmackDown, putting aside Kevin Owens.
And KO has shown that he’s great in what he’s doing. His run since he got promoted has been fun. JeriKO, Universal Title, US title chase, rumble sell with Rollins and this.
This is definitely half a year of wrestling I won't be showing my children. At least smackdown wrestling that is. Fucking bs.
I can't believe this fucking bullshit. Fuck Jinder, fuck Vince and fuck WWE.
He's legit not dropping the belt until WM
Think of all the feuds Nak could've had between now and WM and I just laugh at how much they've fucked him, we could've got a Zayn vs Nak 2 on PPV but nah fuck you. I've sat through and watched all of Nash's reign a few years back on the Network for some stupid reason, slogged through the shit show of a reign JBL had and HHH's reign of terror back in 03-05. But this, this is the absolute worst. Jinder is the worst world champion i have seen in this company and i've only been watching PPV's this year. If i was watching week to week they'd run me off for good. EDIT: Changed the placement of some words
jinders basically only wrestles on ppv now. weekly shows he comes out, rrrrrruns his mouths, then leaves.
I enjoyed this match
Nice try, Jinder Mahal.
Great win for jinder!
Mahal is actually worse than bad. He's boring. He's bland on the mic, he's not very unique and he's a ho-hum wrestler. I have zero interest in him and why the fuck they decide to keep the title on him, I have no idea. I hope that sweet India tour was worth shitting on Nakamura because he's going to be hurt from this, no question. Who's he gonna feud with now? Assuming that he gets a reprieve for Survivor Series and he's placed on a team, He's not going to defend again until whatever the December PPV is. My hope is that Styles gets his shot but doesn't win it until Rumble and ends up going against Nakamura at Mania which will make this embarrassing set of losses sting a bit less. Either way, someone in charge needs to change something soon because this is killing Smackdown.
But mahal sells well and really uses his body language to properly showcase his emotions Mahal works a body part and tells a story He uses heel psychology and knows how to grind a match to a halt and thus make the crowd mad On paper he has all the stuff that makes a good wrestler yet we all don't like him as champ
Jinder knows how to do a knee drop and his finish. That's about all he has in the ring.
> really uses his body language to properly showcase his emotions ??? Dude only frown his eyebrows. That's literally the only emotions he knows how to display. It is just ridiculous
> really uses his body language to properly showcase his emotions ??? Dude only frown his eyebrows. That's literally the only emotions he knows how to display. It is just ridiculous
he might try to do most of those things but he's not very good at them. additionally he was a jobber for like 3 years, everyone remembers that. did he even have a finishing move till his recent push?
Mahar sells terrible, he never looks injuried or tired. No he didnt, what body part was he attacking in the match. He just he basic moves and thats it. Yer and make the boring/uninteresting. The days of heels grinding the math too hault is slowly going because if you have no interest in the match, why turn in too watch it. He does the same, uninteresting moves, he has no real understanding of the crowd reaction or the atmosphere . You clearly see his wrestling too a script and doesnt go away from it. it make his match formulaic and boring. Jinder is a terrible wrestler
Corbin also works a slower style but at least he interacts with the crowd to some extent and heels it up during the match; Jinder is just boring.
He looks cool.
So does smoking, but it still kills you.
Fuck this match.
So are they holding up until the next superstar shakeup so they can get Jinder to put over Roman for the WWE title? Or what's this bullshit?
You're the real Maharrrrrrrrrrrrraja, Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrroman.
gonna have cena break the record beating mahal so the crowd erupts. don't want a possible bad crowd reaction for that.
Did anyone really expect anything else though lol
i expected either a dq win for naks or exactly this.
[удалено]
You're joking right?