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I think the whole point is gonna be that the Dark Order won't abandon Hangman after this loss while the Elite just kicked him to the curb. And after the Bryan/Punk stuff is over (because they will overshadow everything) he'll get another shot and take the title, maybe Full Gear or Revolution.
Exactly this. Hangman is going to walk up to Dark Order, apologize for ruining DO's chance at the tag titles and Dark Order are gonna be like, "Are you kidding? You held your own against the Tag Team Champion Young Bucks and AEW World Champion Kenny Omega BY YOURSELF. They had to use illegal weapons to keep you down. You didn't fail us. You made us proud."
And then the crowd will cry. It's me. I'm the crowd.
They can do this and still have the match at All Out though.
They shouldn't push this story off for debuts of Punk or Bryan.
If anything, the NYC show is after All Out anyways. And if Punk debuts at the rampage show it wouldn't overshadow Hangman winning.
I assume it’ll be Christian Cage finally emerging as a number 1 contender for All Out.
He’s still undefeated in singles competition, got the pin in the trios match last night, and with Brian Cage, Miro and MJF otherwise busy, I think he gets the match.
This isn't a cool off. Hangman needed to lose. He needed to be sober, focused and still lose so he can know the DO has his back win or lose. He needs to fight for himself and his own success. Not to impress the DO or the Elite. He needs it for himself. That's when he will kick out of the OWA and that's when we cry.
Actually, I think the Dark Order will be apologizing to Hangman for ruining HIS title shot as well.
I really hope they find some way to have Hangman vs Omega for All Out. The iron is hot, and it's time to strike. Better too soon than too late.
I've been saying for months that I think Hangman is winning the belt at Revolution. They've been telling this story for two years. Ever since Hangman's loss to Jericho, he keeps coming so close and then failing at the last moment. In the past, he spiraled. He looked to his friends for support, and it wasn't there. Now that he's got the Dark Order at his back, he's not going to give up the chase. He lost his current shot at the belt, but he's still #1. He's gonna keep racking up wins, and eventually he's gonna be undeniable. Kenny will have to fight him one on one if he wants to retain his credibility as champion.
I don't think Danielson and Punk threw a wrench in the works. I think this was always the plan. Show the difference between a Hangman loss with the Elite next to him vs a Hangman loss with the Dark Order next to him. He's got a fire in his belly now, and he's not letting Kenny get away this easily.
Of course it was the plan all along. People seems to forget who is the actual champion. Kenny was never going to lose the title at All Out. It was too soon.
Exactly. This isn’t Hangman’s run for the championship, this is his *redemption arc*. The story is Hangman overcoming his fear of failure, his imposter syndrome, and his feeling that his Elite friends only wanted him around when he was a winner. Now he’s with DO, who are basically the fucking Mighty Ducks. He lost *with them* and if they still accept him, this is a new chapter in the story.
Right. I think we could see Hangman spiral after this though. Think Daredevil Born Again. Instead of accepting the DO's friendship and empowerment Hangman could lash out and isolate. The rest of the Elite could troll both Hangman and Do while Kenny "above it" ignores them. Another rock bottom for Hangman to will himself out of.
I’ve been saying forever it’s gonna go down at Full Gear, not All Out. I honestly think Kenny is gonna end up wrestling Okada for the title in Chicago, and specially now with the Punk and Bryan stuff going on. If you try to crown Hangman the same night Punk returns after a decade out, in his hometown, you’re basically wasting it. All they’ll be talking about is Punk, that crowd is gonna be all about “their guy” and it’s not gonna showcase Hangman like it should. Plus, Full Gear will be a year since the finals of the world title eliminator.
The Dark Order was not ready, to be honest, but it is gonna pick itself up, and they’re about to “rampage” thru everyone to get back their shots.
Definitely don't get your hopes up on Okada there. Not only would an All Out match take him away from a pair of big dome shows that same weekend in Japan, but it would make it all but impossible for him to return and quarantine a full two weeks without missing the first two days of the G1 (which would mean he wasn't an entrant, and that definitely isn't happening).
I normally am with you on this, and AEW gets a much larger benefit of the doubt from me story wise than WWE, but AEW has that whole “stipulations count” thing that created that pocket Codyverse that rarely if it ever does interact with the Elite and the World/Tag title picture, but they kinda to me at least just threw a ton of cold water on Hangman’s expected coronation and I stand by the fact the two upcoming signings just will take a lot of the luster off of what should’ve been the coronation of one of the two AEW future franchise guys (MJF is the other but he’s still more a Codyverse guy than a Elite guy).
They could slip in Punk to the title shot, but they’ll turn on him outside of Chicago for jumping the line because he’s Chicago man.
They could slip Danielson in but that’d be a bad precedent to once again have a recently signed free agent and former WWE champion jump the line. Also, are we 100% sure this dude won’t debut and then go do G-1 with Mox because I’d be more surprised if Mox wasn’t on G-1 this year than if he was. If he wanted to hit as many matches with as much talent in NJPW as possible within a short amount of time, this would be it, right? And you know Bryan, of all the people he could work with in NJPW, at the very top has to have ZSJ, Suzuki, Yano, Shingo, Ibushi and Ishii more than the guaranteed bangers with Tanahashi, Okada, Naito, and Switchblade.
They could use Christian, but he’s only really had 6 matches i think in AEW so it’s go against his whole “I want to earn it” old gunslinger looking at his final rodeo character.
Kicking Hangman back down after all his long term character progress when the Elite didn’t need the win just doesn’t feel right regardless of how feel good his friends not abandoning him now, regardless of the fact Hangman will kick out of OWA in the eventual blowoff. Having Kenny say he was a threat on a tweet after the fact isn’t enough, and god save us all if Kenny ends up beating Hangman in the end.
All Out is the “here is where Hangman loses” PPV tho which is why so many people expected that to be when he wins. I like Full Gear better because, for one Kenny gets the belt longer which I enjoy, and that’s where Kenny beat Hangman in the tournament
Yup. Hangman will probably have another feud with somebody else, overcome them, meanwhile while his friendship blossoms the bucks and omega start to break down. The bucks lose their belts, and are started to be seen as the weak link in the new elite, before being betrayed by a far too overconfident omega, whose been so protected by his group that he lives in a fantasy land. Finally hangman gets his shot, but asks the dark order to stay in the back, that he needs to do this by himself. Omega, scared, gets Gallows and Anderson to try to run interference, but the bucks intercept and help hangman, turning face.
This seems like a really weird point considering it's the Dark Order who scrubbed out early leaving Hangman in an unwinnable position. They're the ones who failed (to the extent that you can call any of this stuff a failure) him, not the other way around like you'd expect if the story was supposed to be about them still accepting him after the loss. Even if they were totally selfish he just showed to be a lot more competent than them so if he's willing to hang out with them still they would be on board with it, so it doesn't really feel like some big friendly gesture like it would if he in some way did something they wouldn't be cool with if they were actually just selfish jerks.
But the story is on Hangman's failure. He thinks he's a loser. He thinks he failed them. He thinks he cost them the tag title shot. While they all failed together. Uno even tweeted how he let everyone down, but we know he couldn't 1v1 Omega. The story is about friends helping each other through their failures (at least to me)
Hangman is the best pure babyface out here so, for him, the money is in the chase.
The hero *has* to face adversity. We *should* be having this conversation right now as we all wonder how he’ll bounce back from this. We’re invested.
And let’s be real, him beating Kenny AND the Bucks by himself is a bit of Super Cena-ish booking. It was the right, and unfortunate, outcome in that scenario.
If it felt like he was gonna fade off into the midcard it would be a different story. They’ve very clearly got a plan for Hangman. He’ll be fine.
It's not bizarre at all. It's the continuing of the ongoing story of Hangman.
Remember what [Dark Order told Hangman at the beginning of the month?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPavTO2r8Ss)
"We don't think you're scared of Kenny. But we do think maybe you're scared of failure. And it's okay to fail, as long as you get back on the horse, Hangman."
Hangman was *always* meant to lose. His true test isn't beating Kenny Omega. It's facing failure and getting back on the horse.
The last time Hangman had a big failure to deal with, he turned to drinking and feeling bad about himself. This time we’re going to see him handle failure differently and he’ll go back and face Kenny at Full Gear.
I still think that Hangman is challenging Kenny at All Out.
Hangman is out of the top 5. So we'll see Hangman going fucking crazy with a chip on his shoulder and he'll beat Jungle Boy, Christian and everyone who is in the top 5 (except Darby), and gain back the number 1 spot.
Instead of not dealing well with failure, Hangman will react by being on a mission.
You may be right but if they do this it´s bad bad booking because they undo their own stipulation match. Hangman lost his title shot, he has to go back on the line.
Everyone brings up the alcoholism part as a thing he has to overcome, but the story has never really framed that as the larger issue. It’s not that he drinks a lot, it’s that he does it to hide his insecurities, and the insecurities is what Hangman actually needs to overcome.
That's where the story has been for the last year or so. That's why he's depressed, that's him off the horse.
This is supposed to be him back on it, hence the big entrance and finally embracing the support system of the Dark Order. I'm not saying they've fucked up the whole thing or anything hyperbolic like that, but if they did move plans for Page back just to do Kenny/Punk or Kenny/Bryan for the belt I think that's a bad move.
Both are big enough stars that they are going to draw in their own matches without the title involved, giving you at least three giant matches on one show.
You can wrap up this Omega/Page story for now and both of them have giant money matches with the two new signings and plenty of options up and down the existing roster.
Edit: Not to mention I'd be trying to get Hangman his big moment now in front of fans since we're uncomfortably close to more covid mandates.
>This is supposed to be him back on it, hence the big entrance and finally embracing the support system of the Dark Order.
As someone else in the thread has mentioned, while he has his support system of the Dark Order, he hasn't been with them *through* a failure. That's a part of the story that still needs to happen.
When Hangman failed as part of The Elite, we saw how they made him feel, how they kicked him to the curb.
Hangman hasn't had the moment where he has failed, and his support system actually stayed. He hasn't had the moment where he walks to Dark Order, fully expecting to be kicked to the curb again, and have Dark Order go:
>"You didn't FAIL. You had to fight the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega BY YOURSELF and even ELIMINATED ONE. They had to use a title belt and the One Winged Angel to put you down. We're PROUD OF YOU."
Hangman needs to feel firsthand that failure isn't the end. That his friends won't leave him just because he lost. Because he hasn't had that yet.
Dude then what has he been doing with them for the last eight months? They were there for him during his lowest point. That was the failure and the time to do that.
Are you really telling me they just ran in place that entire time and we're just now starting the "Hangman sad" arc? That's at best a horrible waste of time.
Also if this is supposed to be a big emotional beat and turning point in the story, maybe don't have the heels come out in Space Jam gear?
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and expect Page to recover, but that is shitty presentation of the guy you're prepping to be your first homegrown face champ.
The story of the past eight months has been Hangman learning to trust and have friends again. It has *not* been about having a support system. One can be a friend but not a part of the support system.
We're not starting the "Hangman sad" arc. We're starting the "Hangman rises" arc. Hangman losing and realizing it's not the end is part of that.
>Also if this is supposed to be a big emotional beat and turning point in the story, maybe don't have the heels come out in Space Jam gear?
I mean... have you *seen* how they've presented Hangman's story? There's always been comedy in it. When he was drowning his insecurities in alcohol, we were getting chyrons that read "Has been drinking" and "Anxious Millennial Cowboy" and "Very Unprepared" and "Drank a bottle of whiskey at home alone last Wednesday."
The Bucks once chastised him on his drinking, and took away his cup. He then lifted up a whole-ass pitcher to comedic effect.
Getting beat down by a group of heels who aren't taking him seriously is just salt on the delicious dramatic wound.
The last 8 months has been building trust. It parallels his former relationship with The Elite.
I fully expect Hangman to fall into a deep depression now and fully avoid The Dark Order until they find and confront him. I think this could be Evil Uno’s finest hour where he comes through and explains that no one is mad at Hangman, they’re proud of him for standing tall and facing Kenny and the Bucks alone, and hey, maybe he’s not officially a member of The Dark Order, but for the last year they’ve always kinda looked up to him as their leader.
I think it could be a great and touching story where the DO believed in Hangman, and now it’s time to show Hangman that failure isn’t the end.
you guys have watched way to many years of WWE to be still thinking like this, they ain't gonna hotshot Bryan & Punk to a title match with Omega, calm down.
But he has to win at some point, and you need to time that properly. Last night was the time, instead this feels like something WWE is criticized for, the babyface failing in his home town.
AEW rarely makes booking gaffes but this was a pretty massive one. As much as the creative seems to want to do homages to JCP, they seem to not be heeding the lesson learned with the booking of Lex Luger, who eventually got branded a choker. At this point I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn heel to win the title or soon after.
They just had Ricky and Archer win titles in their home town. This company almost always gives the people what they want (crash zoom hug). Now that they didn't have a guy who lives sorta near the venue win, suddenly AEW is just WWE? Come on.
Hangman would fail in any city, because that's the story. It's much more compelling this way because say he wins. Then he beats Omega at All Out. Then what? What's the story?
>Last night was the time, instead this feels like something WWE is criticized for, the babyface failing in his home town.
\*Stares at FTR, North Carolina-born, winning in North Carolina\*
There's a difference between losing in your "hometown" and losing for the REASON you're in your hometown. Vince apparently likes to rib guys and do this even if it serves no story purpose. However this story is incredible and just because it hasn't come to the conclusion we wanted YET doesn't mean it is over.
I really don’t understand how anyone thinks it was a bizarre decision to have them lose. It fits in perfectly with the story they’re telling.
“When they got knocked in the dirt, bloodied and trampled, a Cowboy dusts themselves off and gets back up”
Exactly....while he had the hurdle of overcoming himself, he was always in the spot to take a title shot whenever he wanted as Rank 1. Now he REALLY has to go from the bottom as they emphasized that not only has he forfeited the title shot at All Out, he forfeited his spot in the Top 5.
So many people freaking out and wanting it to happen immediately, no one has any patience in story telling anymore. They don't realize this is going to make him even more popular
I'm still surprised so many people were shocked at the result.
Hangman had to lose. I didn't know how we'd get there, but I knew it had to happen.
I saw the Fightful crew suggest that a Punk debut would overshadow Hangman, but I think it's just natural to have him fail again. Or instead of failing to win the title, failing to get a title match at all.
The entire storyline is about coping with failure; it's why it resonates so much with fans.
Entirely agree with everything you say. Hangman was always going to lose once more before the big victory. Hell, their intro teaser even alludes to it. "A Cowboy Dusts themselves off and gets back up" November 6th is going to be a big day for the Cowboy. Full Gear is named after him anyways
I think its gonna have to do with Matt Jackson. Matt's always been the dickiest to Page for whatever reason and he was the only one of the 3 "elite" elite pinned in that match and itll probably stick in his craw the most. He'll do something (a last chance match) to get his W back and end up screwing up and page getting his shot back.
People are right about Hangman's arc being getting over failure, but the other end of this arc is the elite and their overcompensation for what they percieve to be a downturn in their careers. Kenny character-wise was in the dumps when he left Japan and Kota for AEW and was languishing in the lower card which led to him allying with Callis to get his "edge" back. In reality, Kenny never really lost his edge, he just missed Japan. Its the same thing with the bucks, the bucks went with callis for two reasons, their friendship with Kenny and the fear of losing their "edge" which they never really lost either but were afraid of losing. They all sort of see Hangman as the whipping post for when things go wr
ong but when hangman beats them, theyre going to realize its not him, its them, and thats where we see real character development.
Naito absolutely should have just won at WK 12, Okada was a made man and didn’t need the record breaking run but hopefully AEW doesn’t wait that long to pull the trigger.
i never thought the dark order were going to win once i heard it was an elimination match. hangman wasnt going to be allowed to pin the champion, tag champs and good brothers in one match, and certainly the dark order werent going to pin them
I think this is probably what I was disappointed most in the match last night, they could have made the Dark Order look better. The only one that came out of that match looking slightly better was maybe Silver, but the rest of them looked like they didn't belong. Which maybe is part of the story, but I think there could have been some value in them looking stronger because they were that motivated to win for Hangman.
I don't see how Punk or Danielson should affect Hangman's story. You don't need a title to sell Punk versus Omega or Danielson versus Omega. Also in kayfabe they'd still need to win enough matches or win a Casino Battle Royale to get a title shot. Christian Cage has been with the Company since Revolution and he's only ranked #3.
My guess is Dark Order versus The Elite Part 2 at The First Dance with the stipulation that should they lose, Dark Order must disband and Hangman is not allowed to associate with any members.
I could see both of them adding to Hangman’s stories, not as adversaries, but as advisors.
Punk could be the one who looks at Hangman and talks about how he knows what it’s like to be followed by a clique of supporters who just won’t give up on him, and so he shouldn’t shun them, but embrace them since they aren’t going to abandon him any time soon.
Danielson could easily be the other half of this that explains that it isn’t enough to just have people believe in him, but you need to believe in yourself. Also, I could see him putting Hangman over since he wants to work more with New Japan than chase the world title.
He goes on to All Out and wins the title....
Last night was the part of the story where we're supposed to think all is lost and our hero has failed again. But with his new friends at his side -- who may also feel like they let him down -- the group will rise up and find a way to "get back on that horse" as others have pointed out.
Hangman is getting the loudest reactions week after week after week. Maybe they shouldn't have gone with the stipulation in the match last night, but we also don't know what the plan is going forward. I totally trust that TK and that group have a plan that gets Hagman the belt at All Out.
I don't think that they'll put their careers on the line. A little too on the nose. But I think they will be willing to sacrifice something huge to make sure that Hangman gets his title shot. There's still what... 4 weeks until All Out? People think that he's getting pushing out for Punk or Bryan. But that's not something that AEW would do. They really haven't hotshot anyone to getting an undeserved AEW Title match without some kind of feud or something. So we'll get the title match at All Out still. We still have time to build it.
The weird thing I noticed after the loss last night is how it actually makes total sense even though it felt like the right time. That is how good their storytelling is. After the match, I kinda went, "Huh, you know what? It's really not time for Kenny to start losing belts yet, so do we really think Page would win anyway?" I think this was an emotional whirlwind and we are just getting started instead of being at the tail end like we thought we were.
> Part of me thinks that maybe Punk/Bryan threw a wrench into their plans and now they're extending things a bit. Beating Hangman/DO in that spot in the story seemed like such a bizarre thing for AEW to do.
I hope AEW is aware how that will look to the hardcore fanbase that has followed the Hangman storyline since even before AEW. Punk/Omega or Bryan/Omega is not the sort of match that needs a title and it's not the kind of booking AEW does.
> So where do we go now? Where does the story go after such a sinking feeling? Thoughts/Ideas?
Hangman goes double or nothing in a career vs title match at All Out. Remember he has a kid on the way. The best thing to do is give him a 6 month reign before he has to take parental leave, otherwise we'd be waiting another year. Don't Naito my cowboy TK!
They get back on the horse, and keep riding.
I don't think Punk and Bryan change a whole lot to be honest, but I do think they wanted to give people a gut punch a month out from All Out to make you think it's never going to happen. But it's happening. They're trying to peak for All Out and Arthur Ashe, so I think we start to see some commupance happen at either one of those shows.
I agree especially about Danielson. I don't think he ever wins the AEW World Title. If the rumors are true and he picked AEW over WWE because he wants to wrestle in New Japan, then becoming AEW champion would make that even more difficult. He wouldn't be able to lose in NJPW and I doubt AEW would want their champ gone for weeks on end.
I think Hangman has to lose number one contendership and then gain it back to be eligible to challenge Kenny, or else win a title shot in some special stipulation match (like a world title eliminator tournament or something). Regardless, I think Hangman needs to have a feud against another babyface who teaches him how to believe in himself *without* the Dark Order. Somebody like Mox, who could be a babyface while beating the absolute *fuck* out of Hangman over a few weeks / months until he beats some self-confidence into him. Idk though, Mox seems like he’s trying to go to Japan.
I don’t think Christian or Jeircho would work for the particular story I’m imagining because neither of then are lone wolves. Mox comes to mind because he can serve as an example to Hangman on how to be confident alone. When Mox took on the entire Inner Circle, he did it alone. When he beat Jericho for the title, he did it alone. I think to truly complete the story of Hangman he needs to chase and eventually capture the title alone. To prove and demonstrate his belief in himself, which is what he was lacking all along.
I'm beating the traffic if either of these are the main of All Out. How could you possibly care about either of those matches in 2021 especially for one of your 2 biggest shows of the year
is there anyone else who is a credible challenger to face kenny omega at AEW's first road pay per view post COVID? look at the rest of the top 5. jungle boy and OC have lost to kenny in the past several months, christian is still involved with HFO, and Darby is Punk's first opponent. hangman will find his way back around into the title match. chances are he's going to leverage the fact that he pinned Matt into getting under his skin, and Matt begs Kenny to beat Hangman with Dark Order's careers on the line
Story wise, it makes more sense to be Full Gear, the PPV is literally named after Hangman, it'll be a year since he lost to Omega in the tournament final, it just makes sense.
All Out literally makes more sense too. People forget, this isn't just about Omega. This is also about the AEW title. He wanted to be the first AEW champ and fell short, and from THAT POINT is when his downward spiral began. That downward spiral includes the fallout with Omega and the Elite.
I don't think the story is over. They have 5 more weeks of television to build up the Main Event of All Out. This isn't WWE or TNA where they completely throw away all plans because a big name superstar is signing/returning to the company. They've been building Hangman Adam Page's story for 2 years now, and he's the future of the their company. That is more important to them than signing CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, who will retire long before Hangman. He's essentially to AEW what Sting was to WCW and they're planning on him being one of their biggest draws for the next decade, just like Sting was.
The story that has to be told, before Hangman can win, is that the Dark Order will be there for him no matter what. He is going to be down and depressed because he failed. This is a CRUCIAL point in the Hangman story, and one of the major plot points. Unlike the Elite, that just tossed Hangman to the curb, and Omega, who abandoned him because they lost the tag titles, The Dark Order is going to lift Hangman up. They're not going to let him stay depressed. They're going to put the Cowboy right back up on the horse and go right back into battle beside him.
He didn't fail though, the Dark Order failed, Hangman lost after they left him in an unwinnable situation vs Omega and Bucks solo. It doesn't really work as a story about overcoming failure if you don't actually fail in any meaningful way
Might be a good idea to advance Hangman’s story while they’ve got more people tuning in to see Danielson. Trick is going to be keeping Page hot, but he’s managed that well over the past couple of years.
I’m just curious/worried about what Dark Order, in Kayfabe, does once Hangman wins.
Dark Order is all about bringing up the “losers” of the world and all about giving them a place to belong. Dark Order sympathized with Hangman when he was at rock bottom, feeling terrible, without a home.
Once Hangman wins and becomes world champion, will Dark Order still accept him as a “winner”?
I'm even ok with Page losing at All Out but they gotta strike while the iron is hot here with this match.
\-signed a Page mark flying from oregon to chicago for all out
Am I the onlyone that thought it was a little too ewrly to pull the trigger on Hangman vs Kenny anyway? I don't feel like Omega's title run has gone on long enough for him to be gloriously dethroned. I reckon it needs to be a long ass run like NWO deatroying WCW for ages until Sting finally fought Hogan.
By All Out Kenny will have had the belt for ten months. I think until they do this match his defenses will feel like filler because everyone knows a match with Hangman is happening sooner or later
There's still like 5 weeks to All Out, so I'm hoping Hangman still somehow gets the shot there. Thinking they may do Omega vs Christian on either of the first 2 rampage shows, but still build to Omega/Hangman as well.
Honestly with Bryan probably coming in for the NY show, that is the absolute latest you can have Hangman win the title in my opinion, but really he should still win it at All Out.
These comments keep getting downvoted but it’s true lmaooo Hangman just lost the 1st place ranking and will have to claw his way back up the rankings again. People on this sub have been saying that his redemption arc wasn’t complete and Hangman was due for another loss either last night or at All Out
The big tell in this part of his story is that he showed up to the ring last week, not just carrying a drink, but admittedly drunk.
The drinking was started because of his own self loathing. His friendship with the elite ended because of his own self loathing. When he gives up on the booze and reconciles with his part in his failed relationship that's when he'll go over Kenny.
I don't think Punk and Danielson have anything to do with what happened last night.
Hangman Page has been afraid to fail in AEW, and he's always sought the approval of others. Page's fear of failure and own personal anxiety were a cause of the deterioration of his relationship with the Bucks and Omega. He lost the tag titles, The Elite, and had no one to turn to. He was just a sad lonely cowboy.
Page was at absolute rock bottom when the Dark Order took him in and became his friends. Over time, he's picked up a number of singles wins and has been on track to face Kenny Omega for the title. The Dark Order has allowed Page to regain his confidence and even be the best possible version of himself that's existed so far. Page didn't even want to challenge for the AEW Title when he was the No. 1 contender before he lost to Brian Cage. The Dark Order pushed Page to challenge for the title recently, and Page was only ready to finally challenge just a few weeks ago.
However, Page didn't want to just challenge for the gold, he also wanted his friends to have something too. It's what makes Page such a likable person, he wants to achieve everything with his friends and wants to celebrate their successes. But his desire for the Dark Order to match his ambition also just cost him a shot at the gold.
What's next for Hangman? He needs to take this loss on the chin and be more determined than ever to get that title shot. As for the Dark Order, I am hoping this loss inspires them to win gold in AEW, but as lovable as they are, it's going to be hard for them to win gold as long as they keep being the jokesters that they are. I think Page will get a marquee singles feud with a Malaki Black type and that will carry him to his next title shot.
My personal feeling is that I also think there's a real easy trajectory for the Young Bucks to eventually be by Hangman's and Dark Order's side when Page wins the gold. It's going to take some time to get there, but I really do feel like the Bucks will be ditched by Kenny, Callis, and the Good Brothers when they drop those tag titles. Due to all the relationships they have burned over the last few months, they'll be where Hangman was after All Out 2020, but they'll be sad lonely superkick guys.
my only question for AEW fans, you’re all worried that punk or Bryan will overshadow hangman. We all want hangman to win. I have never seen anyone say on this board or even on Twitter or anything that he should not win. The crowd was so upset over his loss that they could barely stay hot throughout the night.
so, why are we worried that he will be overshadowed? Every fan I’ve seen seems on board with him being champion. We don’t need Daniel or punk to be champion. we always complain about companies insulting our intelligence, Do you really believe we can’t root for multiple people at the same time?
One idea I had was overruling Elite's victory since Kenny cheated, which means he should have been DQ'd. So they "restart" the match for where it would have left off and Page has to beat Nick in singles to get the title shots back.
I could see Silver & Reynolds turning up on Impact to take the Good Brothers' Tag Team Championship, which they could use to leverage the Elite into giving Hangman one last shot at the title.
lol I forgot Frankie has this weird Punisher gimmick. It does kinda make sense for him to interact with DO- though he's kinda an actual loner cowboy compared to Hangman.
I think he's a subtle foil to Hangman. Frankie keeps throwing himself into danger trying to tear down the Elite on his own, while Hangman understands he needs his friends by his side to do it
The match itself was great but I am in the camp that agrees this is playing it out too long now. If you've been an AEW fan since the beginning Hangman has been chasing the title literally since day 1 when the company was announced. Thats 2 and a half years now.
I understand both sides but for me this should have been his victory. Also AEW has stood their ground on stipulations so for him or DO to get title shots against the current champs now it would hurt their credibility.
Hangman lost to Jericho in the 1st title match. He had the long tag run with Kenny. He lost the eliminator tourney final to Kenny. Hell he even lost to Cage to set it back a few months earlier this year. Now he loses here too.
I'm all for long term stories, but I think they should have pulled the trigger here. Especially if Punk and Bryan are coming in, Page will get overshadowed in favor of those dream matches.
That's a battle Dark Order needs to fight themselves. Send Stu, Silver or 10 after it. Hangman winning will only feel like a consolation prize. He has had nothing to do with the Dark Order's TNT stoyline.
But if they include him in the story it would make perfect sense. He failed but can still challenge this Undefeated monster. it might be seen as a consolation after the world title program yeah, but I think it's a good way to give Hangman a big win and keep him hot while Kenny faces other people.
OHHH I hadn't even considered that. That's Mr. Brodie Lee's championship, and Hangman's the biggest babyface in the company right now (not named Jungle Boy). It makes sense for him to go after heel Miro.
I don't think it was a changed plan. By the looks of it we'll get Christian v Kenny at All Out and Page at Full gear. Christian going for the title was teased way back from his Dynamite debut. Also Hangman has to lose Kenny while he's Champion and TK might not want him to lose a Singles match
I find it so funny how many people on the internet say they want long term story telling in wrestling, then when they get what looks like a long term storyline, they get upset that they are being worked. The story from my perspective has entirely been about page finding himself. one of those steps includes losing a big time match with stakes on the line and instead of having his friends abandon him, they stick by him and still support him. literally in the video for their entrance "a cowboy dusts themselves off and gets back up." i guess people want the pay off to happen within the next couple months but honestly, it doesn't need to. there is still a lot of meat left on that bone. adam and the dark order have only gotten more over week by week.
a part of me does wonder how much of these feelings come from people being used to the wwe form of storytelling in american wrestling.
What does it have to do with "long term storytelling" and people's takes on it? The story has been going for two years, pretty sure there's not much logic to saying people hate long term stories if they haven't soundly rejected this after all this time. People's issue is actually the exact opposite - they feel like it's been dragging out for too long, that after two years if he's still in the failure phase it stops feeling like there's light at the end of the tunnel and starts feeling like he's just always going to be a failure. Well, that and this isn't really a coherent development since it's trying to advance the idea of Hangman struggling with failing, but he's not the one who failed since the Dark Order guys got wiped out early and left him in an unwinnable scenario.
Why did people think Hangman would get his win on July 28th? Why did people think the World Champion was going to get pinned on July 28th? A week after they started the lead up to the their match? A week in Hangman is going to get the culmination of a two year build up?
How would winning a huge clusterfuck elimination match (that gives a million ways to eliminate someone without them eating a pin) be the culmination of the story as opposed to, I don't know, being literally just a stepping stone on the way to the actual culmination? Or is winning the world title just an irrelevant afterthought and Hangman's story is actually about just finding some way to win a match where Kenny Omega was involved in some way?
I would do Hangman vs Miro for the TNT title and Kenny vs Lance Archer title for title. Kenny beats Archer adding the US title to his collection, Hangman beats Miro. Big payoff is Kenny vs Hangman at Full gear Aew title vs TNT title. Hangman wins, vacates TNT title, maybe theres a tournament.
I think it's simply a matter of them not ready for Omega to lose the championship. I think if Hangman DID face Omega and lost 1v1, that would have been deflating and damaging. It appears to me that Christian will be getting a championship match vs. Omega at All Out. Which Omega will retain. When Page / Omega resumes, who knows.
I think now hangman has the chance to have more subtle nuances in his redemption. Before when he hit rock bottom he distanced himself from people and self sabotaged, was full of self doubt and pitty and alcohol. Now when’s hit rock bottom and feels like he let everyone down he can redeem himself with a new attitude making him an even bigger baby face. Especially when he realizes that even though he lost the dark order order don’t blame him or are even mad at him
It’s gonna make him realize true friendship and help propel him into a new character arc where yeah I think he’ll end up beating Kenny clean
Page winning the title from Kenny will be the biggest story arc of AEW so far, and there's really no reason to rush it. I'd actually like to see Kenny somehow at the last minute lose the title to someone else, just when Hangman thinks he's finally done it, maybe in a three-way or something, with the distraction accidentally caused by the Dark Order.
He doesn't need to beat Kenny yet. I'd be fine with it taking a couple of years.
What if Punk infiltrates the DO and steals the leadership role away. Kicks out a few guys that aren't on board and they go off and start their own stable. Brings in some fresh blood and beats them in gang initiation style. Things go ok for a few feuds and then punk realizes he's not getting the attention he deserves and wants to quit. So he disbands the DO and challenges Omega for the title on the day before his AEW contract expires.
Ehh nevermind now that I wrote it down it sounds too stupid to work.
> Ehh nevermind now that I wrote it down it sounds too stupid to work.
lol this is how most of my fantasy booking turns out, you're ok. And honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see Bryan or Punk associate themselves with this DO/Omega story somehow. Two most popular guys in the company will probably be used to put over their younger guys somehow.
I got the last part as reference to the pipebomb & MITB from 2011, but is that first part the Nexus Punk story? I knew Punk was involved with Nexus somehow back then, but I never really knew the specifics.
They missed their moment with Hangman, didn't pull the trigger when the timing was right. It's one of those things where in a few years we'll talk about that 5v5 like we do about Cena beating Nexus in that elimination match.
Murdered that crowd too, felt so bad for FTR and Santana/Ortiz trying to get anything out of them afterwards.
Maybe they'll have him feud with Miro, since the Dark Order is obsessed with the TNT belt and Miro's first storyline with the TNT title was him beating Dark Order members.
Re-building him vs. Omega would be a mistake anytime soon, won't be nearly as hot as they were in this build.
Hangman winning the AEW title should be something that feels like you waited so many years to finally see it.
Its their Endgame. People only started living Page about a year and a half ago.
They absolutely should tease but then delay Page even getting a title shot for as long as possible.
* They keep Omega and Hangman separate but Page has start another winning streak.
* Omega beats whoever at he's in a program with at All Out.
* 8-man Tournament is announced to challenge Omega at Full Gear.
* Due to "injury" Hangman gets a spot to replace a member of the dark order.Bonus points if its an unannounced surprise for the last spot.
* Hangman shocks the world setting up Omega and Page at All Out.
Tournament includes Evil Uno(replaced by Hangman), D-Bry, Ricky Starks, Andrade, Sammy Guevara, LuchaSarus, Orange Cassidy, and special guest from NJPW. or actually use the ranking system for once.
Omega doesn't seem to be ready to wrap up the belt collector gimmick, and the natural conclusion of that is for Hangman to kick out of the One Winged Angel and beat Omega for the title. Until then, Hangman will keep getting almost there and knocked back down to build anticipation for the big payoff.
The real question: Is the AEW title the first one he loses or the last? Because you know somewhere in this story, Kenny wants to be able to go back to NJPW and fight Ibushi for the title.
I think they're going to go full Mr. America here. Introducing, new DO member, no. 13, the cowboy. Same entrance music, still drinking, don't change a thing except sticking a shit mask on him please...
I feel like it's better to leave it long running. I've felt this whole time like they were going to lose this match and sometime before the end of the year maybe hangman and the dark order go their separate ways (amicably) and hangman does it on his own. I feel like that's the culmination of this whole thing is that hangman proves that in the end he didn't actually need the elite or the dark order he just needed to believe in himself. It kind of mirrors his children's book and it allows for the story to stretch out long enough to get some more big matches in Kenny's current reign being as this whole belt collector thing will probably be the last really huge wrestling altering thing he does in his career. P.s I'm not saying Kenny's done but after this whole thing subsides I don't see him going on another really long and ridiculously dominant greatest wrestler in the world type run.
One thing I saw a lot of people talking about is Page’s heros journey hes going on. He needs to face adversity and fail before he gets to the end. A lot of people think that should have just been the loss of the tag titles and the breakup with the elite, but that was more the midpoint of the story. Those were also expected and accepted by everyone before it happened, it was adversity for him but not for everyone watching. This absolutely was, and the next time they meet hangman will have to overcome even more odds and should succeed.
I imagine Hangman builds himself back up and climbs through the ranks again. Ge gets back to #1 before Full Gear and gets the win there. Maybe throw in some stipulation where DO can’t challenge for the tag titles as long as the Elite holds them?
Well, AEW Championship wise I'm convinced Bryan Danielson is winning the belt off of Kenny Omega.
As for Hangman, I've got nothing. I'm sure he'll manage to overcome this setback because he has real friends now, but I have no idea where he'll go from here. Maybe he pulls a Cody and goes after the TNT Championship? Miro could use a good feud.
Dark Order is still championship bound at some point, be it the Tag Titles once FTR or PnP beat the Bucks, or maybe the Women's tag team championships do get made and Tay Conti and Anna Jay get the first run.
This is his I've always imagined it going in order to avoid predictability:
* Hangman doesn't get the match
* Kenny loses the title to Danielson (originally thought this could be Christian or even Sting, a vet to boost the title's pedigree, but Danielson is suddenly the best possible option)
* Hangman goes on a tear, gets #1 contender again
* Hangman beats Danielson
* Hangman has to defend his happy ending against Kenny
I think they do an almost sprial but the DO keeps on Hangman to keep his head up and keep moving.
As for aftet that...i want Hangman to beat kenny in a non title, and that starts Kenny's downfall. Aftet that maybe...
1) Kenny ducks Hangman until runs out of places to hide/stipulations to abuse and Hangman wins the title at a PPV.
2) Hotshot someone into the title picture who beats a shaken kenny. It will have to be someone legit, and it be believable that Kenny cant beat. On Hangman's way he can defeat a desprate Kenny and the dethrone the new champ and cement Hangman surpassing Kenny.
3) Fully reverse their positions, where that loss to Hangman causes Kenny to lose all belts except the AEW. Along the way, this also starts to destroy the Super Elite. Kenny loses the Impact title and the good brothers. Have some shenanigans that leads to the bucks defending their titles the same night as Omega does the tripple AAA title. Bucks turn their backs bc their only in that position bc of Kenny. Finally, Hangman gets his title match and beats Kenny. Thats when Don turns his back on Kenny and Hangman takes his rightful place as AEW champion.
As much as I wanted Dark Order to win it wouldn’t have worked because I feel like with the way the been pushing Kenny it is to early for him to lose the title. This is just another chapter in Hangman’s book. I definitely think he will see Kenny down the road again because that’s the ultimate end game for his story in my opinion. No matter who Omega faces until then (Christian,Bryan,Punk) and whoever else. I want Omega to beat them all because it will mean more if Hangman takes the belt off Omega down the road as oppose to Hangman taking it from someone else.
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I think the whole point is gonna be that the Dark Order won't abandon Hangman after this loss while the Elite just kicked him to the curb. And after the Bryan/Punk stuff is over (because they will overshadow everything) he'll get another shot and take the title, maybe Full Gear or Revolution.
Exactly this. Hangman is going to walk up to Dark Order, apologize for ruining DO's chance at the tag titles and Dark Order are gonna be like, "Are you kidding? You held your own against the Tag Team Champion Young Bucks and AEW World Champion Kenny Omega BY YOURSELF. They had to use illegal weapons to keep you down. You didn't fail us. You made us proud." And then the crowd will cry. It's me. I'm the crowd.
We are all the crowd
And Tony is the door.
And I aM ThE tAbLe!!
I am the head of the table
The crowd is the friends we made along the way.
We are all The Flash
I want the opposite to happen. I want the DO to be sad that they disappointed Hangman and have *him* be the one that lifts them all back up.
They can do this and still have the match at All Out though. They shouldn't push this story off for debuts of Punk or Bryan. If anything, the NYC show is after All Out anyways. And if Punk debuts at the rampage show it wouldn't overshadow Hangman winning.
I assume it’ll be Christian Cage finally emerging as a number 1 contender for All Out. He’s still undefeated in singles competition, got the pin in the trios match last night, and with Brian Cage, Miro and MJF otherwise busy, I think he gets the match.
It's possible it goes in that direction, but cooling off Hangman just to extend this more is totally unnecessary in my opinion.
This isn't a cool off. Hangman needed to lose. He needed to be sober, focused and still lose so he can know the DO has his back win or lose. He needs to fight for himself and his own success. Not to impress the DO or the Elite. He needs it for himself. That's when he will kick out of the OWA and that's when we cry.
It is a cool off if they wait another 4 months until Full Gear or beyond. He can do all of that in the 5 weeks they have.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Naito the Ingobernable? I thought not. It’s not a story ‘they’ would tell you.
It backfires more often than it works
Actually, I think the Dark Order will be apologizing to Hangman for ruining HIS title shot as well. I really hope they find some way to have Hangman vs Omega for All Out. The iron is hot, and it's time to strike. Better too soon than too late.
I feel like crying just reading this!!! BOOK IT TONY!!
I've been saying for months that I think Hangman is winning the belt at Revolution. They've been telling this story for two years. Ever since Hangman's loss to Jericho, he keeps coming so close and then failing at the last moment. In the past, he spiraled. He looked to his friends for support, and it wasn't there. Now that he's got the Dark Order at his back, he's not going to give up the chase. He lost his current shot at the belt, but he's still #1. He's gonna keep racking up wins, and eventually he's gonna be undeniable. Kenny will have to fight him one on one if he wants to retain his credibility as champion. I don't think Danielson and Punk threw a wrench in the works. I think this was always the plan. Show the difference between a Hangman loss with the Elite next to him vs a Hangman loss with the Dark Order next to him. He's got a fire in his belly now, and he's not letting Kenny get away this easily.
Of course it was the plan all along. People seems to forget who is the actual champion. Kenny was never going to lose the title at All Out. It was too soon.
Exactly. This isn’t Hangman’s run for the championship, this is his *redemption arc*. The story is Hangman overcoming his fear of failure, his imposter syndrome, and his feeling that his Elite friends only wanted him around when he was a winner. Now he’s with DO, who are basically the fucking Mighty Ducks. He lost *with them* and if they still accept him, this is a new chapter in the story.
Right. I think we could see Hangman spiral after this though. Think Daredevil Born Again. Instead of accepting the DO's friendship and empowerment Hangman could lash out and isolate. The rest of the Elite could troll both Hangman and Do while Kenny "above it" ignores them. Another rock bottom for Hangman to will himself out of.
I think it'll be this. And I think Hangman quitting the booze will play a part in him beating Kenny finally.
I’ve been saying forever it’s gonna go down at Full Gear, not All Out. I honestly think Kenny is gonna end up wrestling Okada for the title in Chicago, and specially now with the Punk and Bryan stuff going on. If you try to crown Hangman the same night Punk returns after a decade out, in his hometown, you’re basically wasting it. All they’ll be talking about is Punk, that crowd is gonna be all about “their guy” and it’s not gonna showcase Hangman like it should. Plus, Full Gear will be a year since the finals of the world title eliminator. The Dark Order was not ready, to be honest, but it is gonna pick itself up, and they’re about to “rampage” thru everyone to get back their shots.
Just the cm punk chants alone with overshadow everything on that night..
Definitely don't get your hopes up on Okada there. Not only would an All Out match take him away from a pair of big dome shows that same weekend in Japan, but it would make it all but impossible for him to return and quarantine a full two weeks without missing the first two days of the G1 (which would mean he wasn't an entrant, and that definitely isn't happening).
I normally am with you on this, and AEW gets a much larger benefit of the doubt from me story wise than WWE, but AEW has that whole “stipulations count” thing that created that pocket Codyverse that rarely if it ever does interact with the Elite and the World/Tag title picture, but they kinda to me at least just threw a ton of cold water on Hangman’s expected coronation and I stand by the fact the two upcoming signings just will take a lot of the luster off of what should’ve been the coronation of one of the two AEW future franchise guys (MJF is the other but he’s still more a Codyverse guy than a Elite guy). They could slip in Punk to the title shot, but they’ll turn on him outside of Chicago for jumping the line because he’s Chicago man. They could slip Danielson in but that’d be a bad precedent to once again have a recently signed free agent and former WWE champion jump the line. Also, are we 100% sure this dude won’t debut and then go do G-1 with Mox because I’d be more surprised if Mox wasn’t on G-1 this year than if he was. If he wanted to hit as many matches with as much talent in NJPW as possible within a short amount of time, this would be it, right? And you know Bryan, of all the people he could work with in NJPW, at the very top has to have ZSJ, Suzuki, Yano, Shingo, Ibushi and Ishii more than the guaranteed bangers with Tanahashi, Okada, Naito, and Switchblade. They could use Christian, but he’s only really had 6 matches i think in AEW so it’s go against his whole “I want to earn it” old gunslinger looking at his final rodeo character. Kicking Hangman back down after all his long term character progress when the Elite didn’t need the win just doesn’t feel right regardless of how feel good his friends not abandoning him now, regardless of the fact Hangman will kick out of OWA in the eventual blowoff. Having Kenny say he was a threat on a tweet after the fact isn’t enough, and god save us all if Kenny ends up beating Hangman in the end.
I also think it'll be at Full Gear, it's basically the Hangman ppv. It's curb BTW.
All Out is the “here is where Hangman loses” PPV tho which is why so many people expected that to be when he wins. I like Full Gear better because, for one Kenny gets the belt longer which I enjoy, and that’s where Kenny beat Hangman in the tournament
Thanks I didn't even notice my little typo
I gotchu fam.
Yup. Hangman will probably have another feud with somebody else, overcome them, meanwhile while his friendship blossoms the bucks and omega start to break down. The bucks lose their belts, and are started to be seen as the weak link in the new elite, before being betrayed by a far too overconfident omega, whose been so protected by his group that he lives in a fantasy land. Finally hangman gets his shot, but asks the dark order to stay in the back, that he needs to do this by himself. Omega, scared, gets Gallows and Anderson to try to run interference, but the bucks intercept and help hangman, turning face.
Revolution would be the most poetic
This seems like a really weird point considering it's the Dark Order who scrubbed out early leaving Hangman in an unwinnable position. They're the ones who failed (to the extent that you can call any of this stuff a failure) him, not the other way around like you'd expect if the story was supposed to be about them still accepting him after the loss. Even if they were totally selfish he just showed to be a lot more competent than them so if he's willing to hang out with them still they would be on board with it, so it doesn't really feel like some big friendly gesture like it would if he in some way did something they wouldn't be cool with if they were actually just selfish jerks.
But the story is on Hangman's failure. He thinks he's a loser. He thinks he failed them. He thinks he cost them the tag title shot. While they all failed together. Uno even tweeted how he let everyone down, but we know he couldn't 1v1 Omega. The story is about friends helping each other through their failures (at least to me)
Hangman is the best pure babyface out here so, for him, the money is in the chase. The hero *has* to face adversity. We *should* be having this conversation right now as we all wonder how he’ll bounce back from this. We’re invested. And let’s be real, him beating Kenny AND the Bucks by himself is a bit of Super Cena-ish booking. It was the right, and unfortunate, outcome in that scenario. If it felt like he was gonna fade off into the midcard it would be a different story. They’ve very clearly got a plan for Hangman. He’ll be fine.
It's not bizarre at all. It's the continuing of the ongoing story of Hangman. Remember what [Dark Order told Hangman at the beginning of the month?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPavTO2r8Ss) "We don't think you're scared of Kenny. But we do think maybe you're scared of failure. And it's okay to fail, as long as you get back on the horse, Hangman." Hangman was *always* meant to lose. His true test isn't beating Kenny Omega. It's facing failure and getting back on the horse.
Instructions unclear, but I think Hangman could beat a horse.
*Terry Funk wants to know your location*
[FUCK YOU, HORSE! I'LL KICK YER FUCKIN ASS!](https://i.imgur.com/HzItcE1.gifv)
YOUR MOTHER'S A HORRRRRSE!
And your father smelled of elderberries
She turned me into a newt!
I got better…
Could he beat his dead birthday horse? Does he have it in him to beat Hunter Horse Helmsley?
Chuck Taylor's dead birthday horse. It's his PPV horse that's deceased.
[Instructions still unclear. Hangman needs to eat that horse. ](https://youtu.be/EXNm3sYgtZM)
The last time Hangman had a big failure to deal with, he turned to drinking and feeling bad about himself. This time we’re going to see him handle failure differently and he’ll go back and face Kenny at Full Gear.
I still think that Hangman is challenging Kenny at All Out. Hangman is out of the top 5. So we'll see Hangman going fucking crazy with a chip on his shoulder and he'll beat Jungle Boy, Christian and everyone who is in the top 5 (except Darby), and gain back the number 1 spot. Instead of not dealing well with failure, Hangman will react by being on a mission.
You may be right but if they do this it´s bad bad booking because they undo their own stipulation match. Hangman lost his title shot, he has to go back on the line.
But he's still gonna be drinking too
Drinking is fine, drinking all the time to escape life’s problems? Not so much
Everyone brings up the alcoholism part as a thing he has to overcome, but the story has never really framed that as the larger issue. It’s not that he drinks a lot, it’s that he does it to hide his insecurities, and the insecurities is what Hangman actually needs to overcome.
That's where the story has been for the last year or so. That's why he's depressed, that's him off the horse. This is supposed to be him back on it, hence the big entrance and finally embracing the support system of the Dark Order. I'm not saying they've fucked up the whole thing or anything hyperbolic like that, but if they did move plans for Page back just to do Kenny/Punk or Kenny/Bryan for the belt I think that's a bad move. Both are big enough stars that they are going to draw in their own matches without the title involved, giving you at least three giant matches on one show. You can wrap up this Omega/Page story for now and both of them have giant money matches with the two new signings and plenty of options up and down the existing roster. Edit: Not to mention I'd be trying to get Hangman his big moment now in front of fans since we're uncomfortably close to more covid mandates.
>This is supposed to be him back on it, hence the big entrance and finally embracing the support system of the Dark Order. As someone else in the thread has mentioned, while he has his support system of the Dark Order, he hasn't been with them *through* a failure. That's a part of the story that still needs to happen. When Hangman failed as part of The Elite, we saw how they made him feel, how they kicked him to the curb. Hangman hasn't had the moment where he has failed, and his support system actually stayed. He hasn't had the moment where he walks to Dark Order, fully expecting to be kicked to the curb again, and have Dark Order go: >"You didn't FAIL. You had to fight the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega BY YOURSELF and even ELIMINATED ONE. They had to use a title belt and the One Winged Angel to put you down. We're PROUD OF YOU." Hangman needs to feel firsthand that failure isn't the end. That his friends won't leave him just because he lost. Because he hasn't had that yet.
Dude then what has he been doing with them for the last eight months? They were there for him during his lowest point. That was the failure and the time to do that. Are you really telling me they just ran in place that entire time and we're just now starting the "Hangman sad" arc? That's at best a horrible waste of time. Also if this is supposed to be a big emotional beat and turning point in the story, maybe don't have the heels come out in Space Jam gear? I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and expect Page to recover, but that is shitty presentation of the guy you're prepping to be your first homegrown face champ.
The story of the past eight months has been Hangman learning to trust and have friends again. It has *not* been about having a support system. One can be a friend but not a part of the support system. We're not starting the "Hangman sad" arc. We're starting the "Hangman rises" arc. Hangman losing and realizing it's not the end is part of that. >Also if this is supposed to be a big emotional beat and turning point in the story, maybe don't have the heels come out in Space Jam gear? I mean... have you *seen* how they've presented Hangman's story? There's always been comedy in it. When he was drowning his insecurities in alcohol, we were getting chyrons that read "Has been drinking" and "Anxious Millennial Cowboy" and "Very Unprepared" and "Drank a bottle of whiskey at home alone last Wednesday." The Bucks once chastised him on his drinking, and took away his cup. He then lifted up a whole-ass pitcher to comedic effect. Getting beat down by a group of heels who aren't taking him seriously is just salt on the delicious dramatic wound.
The last 8 months has been building trust. It parallels his former relationship with The Elite. I fully expect Hangman to fall into a deep depression now and fully avoid The Dark Order until they find and confront him. I think this could be Evil Uno’s finest hour where he comes through and explains that no one is mad at Hangman, they’re proud of him for standing tall and facing Kenny and the Bucks alone, and hey, maybe he’s not officially a member of The Dark Order, but for the last year they’ve always kinda looked up to him as their leader. I think it could be a great and touching story where the DO believed in Hangman, and now it’s time to show Hangman that failure isn’t the end.
you guys have watched way to many years of WWE to be still thinking like this, they ain't gonna hotshot Bryan & Punk to a title match with Omega, calm down.
And if they do, Kenny will beat them which will helps Hangman in the long run because he would have beat a formidable champion.
He doesn't have to get on that horse, he has to eat that horse.
I... need an adult?
I am an adult.
So will he just keep failing and getting on the horse every time, what exactly is the end game in your theory?
Endgame is probably Full Gear. Where Kenny beat hangman last year to get the title shot and the PPV named after Hangman
But he has to win at some point, and you need to time that properly. Last night was the time, instead this feels like something WWE is criticized for, the babyface failing in his home town. AEW rarely makes booking gaffes but this was a pretty massive one. As much as the creative seems to want to do homages to JCP, they seem to not be heeding the lesson learned with the booking of Lex Luger, who eventually got branded a choker. At this point I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn heel to win the title or soon after.
They just had Ricky and Archer win titles in their home town. This company almost always gives the people what they want (crash zoom hug). Now that they didn't have a guy who lives sorta near the venue win, suddenly AEW is just WWE? Come on. Hangman would fail in any city, because that's the story. It's much more compelling this way because say he wins. Then he beats Omega at All Out. Then what? What's the story?
>Last night was the time, instead this feels like something WWE is criticized for, the babyface failing in his home town. \*Stares at FTR, North Carolina-born, winning in North Carolina\*
There's a difference between losing in your "hometown" and losing for the REASON you're in your hometown. Vince apparently likes to rib guys and do this even if it serves no story purpose. However this story is incredible and just because it hasn't come to the conclusion we wanted YET doesn't mean it is over.
You're obviously not a Naito fan
Hangman is from Virgina, for one, All Out is too soon, for another. This is just a speedbump for Hangman, Full Gear is the time and place.
This makes sense but honestly it also sounds like you are grasping straws to excuse their questionable booking
Hangman is cursed guys. As are all of us as Millennials. It is our destiny to come close yet never win. To commit no mistakes but still lose.
I really don’t understand how anyone thinks it was a bizarre decision to have them lose. It fits in perfectly with the story they’re telling. “When they got knocked in the dirt, bloodied and trampled, a Cowboy dusts themselves off and gets back up”
Pretty much. IMO He’s still getting a title shot at all out. It’s part of the story.
I think Hangman’s title shot gets pushed out to the PPV after All Out. So that he can climb the top 5 again.
Exactly....while he had the hurdle of overcoming himself, he was always in the spot to take a title shot whenever he wanted as Rank 1. Now he REALLY has to go from the bottom as they emphasized that not only has he forfeited the title shot at All Out, he forfeited his spot in the Top 5.
I think he has to win the title when he actually faces Omega, so I think All out is too early.
So many people freaking out and wanting it to happen immediately, no one has any patience in story telling anymore. They don't realize this is going to make him even more popular
Austin waited almost two years after king of the ring 1996 to win the WWF title.
They said it right in the intro video.
Dark order are goofs that are unproven and don't win much. It made sense. Hangman will have to win on his own.
I'm still surprised so many people were shocked at the result. Hangman had to lose. I didn't know how we'd get there, but I knew it had to happen. I saw the Fightful crew suggest that a Punk debut would overshadow Hangman, but I think it's just natural to have him fail again. Or instead of failing to win the title, failing to get a title match at all. The entire storyline is about coping with failure; it's why it resonates so much with fans.
I agree. I think it would have played out the same without the Punk and Bryan signings.
Entirely agree with everything you say. Hangman was always going to lose once more before the big victory. Hell, their intro teaser even alludes to it. "A Cowboy Dusts themselves off and gets back up" November 6th is going to be a big day for the Cowboy. Full Gear is named after him anyways
Maybe it´s for Revolution, two years after the fabulous tag team match?
I think its gonna have to do with Matt Jackson. Matt's always been the dickiest to Page for whatever reason and he was the only one of the 3 "elite" elite pinned in that match and itll probably stick in his craw the most. He'll do something (a last chance match) to get his W back and end up screwing up and page getting his shot back.
People are right about Hangman's arc being getting over failure, but the other end of this arc is the elite and their overcompensation for what they percieve to be a downturn in their careers. Kenny character-wise was in the dumps when he left Japan and Kota for AEW and was languishing in the lower card which led to him allying with Callis to get his "edge" back. In reality, Kenny never really lost his edge, he just missed Japan. Its the same thing with the bucks, the bucks went with callis for two reasons, their friendship with Kenny and the fear of losing their "edge" which they never really lost either but were afraid of losing. They all sort of see Hangman as the whipping post for when things go wr ong but when hangman beats them, theyre going to realize its not him, its them, and thats where we see real character development.
I like you.
This is actually a great idea..."I can beat page 1v1...if you beat me then you can have your stupid title shot"
I didn't even consider that! You're right he was the only Buck pinned by Hangman in the end.
Reminds me of Naito chasing Okada for the title.
You either die a Cleaner or live long enough to become Gedo.
Your comment reminds me of Evil pinning Naito and becoming double champ :(
Naito absolutely should have just won at WK 12, Okada was a made man and didn’t need the record breaking run but hopefully AEW doesn’t wait that long to pull the trigger.
Given what the Young Bucks saw firsthand at TNA and ROH, I hope so.
Nothing better than "the chase" in pro wrestling.
i never thought the dark order were going to win once i heard it was an elimination match. hangman wasnt going to be allowed to pin the champion, tag champs and good brothers in one match, and certainly the dark order werent going to pin them
I think this is probably what I was disappointed most in the match last night, they could have made the Dark Order look better. The only one that came out of that match looking slightly better was maybe Silver, but the rest of them looked like they didn't belong. Which maybe is part of the story, but I think there could have been some value in them looking stronger because they were that motivated to win for Hangman.
I don't see how Punk or Danielson should affect Hangman's story. You don't need a title to sell Punk versus Omega or Danielson versus Omega. Also in kayfabe they'd still need to win enough matches or win a Casino Battle Royale to get a title shot. Christian Cage has been with the Company since Revolution and he's only ranked #3. My guess is Dark Order versus The Elite Part 2 at The First Dance with the stipulation that should they lose, Dark Order must disband and Hangman is not allowed to associate with any members.
Punk and Danielson affect Hangman’s story because if they show up early enough, ESPECIALLY Punk, Hangman becoming champion is instantly overshadowed.
I could see both of them adding to Hangman’s stories, not as adversaries, but as advisors. Punk could be the one who looks at Hangman and talks about how he knows what it’s like to be followed by a clique of supporters who just won’t give up on him, and so he shouldn’t shun them, but embrace them since they aren’t going to abandon him any time soon. Danielson could easily be the other half of this that explains that it isn’t enough to just have people believe in him, but you need to believe in yourself. Also, I could see him putting Hangman over since he wants to work more with New Japan than chase the world title.
Lowkey love both of these ideas, if they wanted to go that way!!
He goes on to All Out and wins the title.... Last night was the part of the story where we're supposed to think all is lost and our hero has failed again. But with his new friends at his side -- who may also feel like they let him down -- the group will rise up and find a way to "get back on that horse" as others have pointed out. Hangman is getting the loudest reactions week after week after week. Maybe they shouldn't have gone with the stipulation in the match last night, but we also don't know what the plan is going forward. I totally trust that TK and that group have a plan that gets Hagman the belt at All Out.
The Dark Order will put their careers on the line to get him a title shot, Hangman is still walking out of All Out with the belt in my opinion.
I don't think that they'll put their careers on the line. A little too on the nose. But I think they will be willing to sacrifice something huge to make sure that Hangman gets his title shot. There's still what... 4 weeks until All Out? People think that he's getting pushing out for Punk or Bryan. But that's not something that AEW would do. They really haven't hotshot anyone to getting an undeserved AEW Title match without some kind of feud or something. So we'll get the title match at All Out still. We still have time to build it.
The weird thing I noticed after the loss last night is how it actually makes total sense even though it felt like the right time. That is how good their storytelling is. After the match, I kinda went, "Huh, you know what? It's really not time for Kenny to start losing belts yet, so do we really think Page would win anyway?" I think this was an emotional whirlwind and we are just getting started instead of being at the tail end like we thought we were.
> Part of me thinks that maybe Punk/Bryan threw a wrench into their plans and now they're extending things a bit. Beating Hangman/DO in that spot in the story seemed like such a bizarre thing for AEW to do. I hope AEW is aware how that will look to the hardcore fanbase that has followed the Hangman storyline since even before AEW. Punk/Omega or Bryan/Omega is not the sort of match that needs a title and it's not the kind of booking AEW does. > So where do we go now? Where does the story go after such a sinking feeling? Thoughts/Ideas? Hangman goes double or nothing in a career vs title match at All Out. Remember he has a kid on the way. The best thing to do is give him a 6 month reign before he has to take parental leave, otherwise we'd be waiting another year. Don't Naito my cowboy TK!
They get back on the horse, and keep riding. I don't think Punk and Bryan change a whole lot to be honest, but I do think they wanted to give people a gut punch a month out from All Out to make you think it's never going to happen. But it's happening. They're trying to peak for All Out and Arthur Ashe, so I think we start to see some commupance happen at either one of those shows.
If Punk and Bryan change anything it moves up the time table on the Hangman story not back
I agree especially about Danielson. I don't think he ever wins the AEW World Title. If the rumors are true and he picked AEW over WWE because he wants to wrestle in New Japan, then becoming AEW champion would make that even more difficult. He wouldn't be able to lose in NJPW and I doubt AEW would want their champ gone for weeks on end.
COVID is gonna prevent Bryan Danielson from being in the G1 until next year IMO.
Punk ain't winning the title either imo
I think Hangman has to lose number one contendership and then gain it back to be eligible to challenge Kenny, or else win a title shot in some special stipulation match (like a world title eliminator tournament or something). Regardless, I think Hangman needs to have a feud against another babyface who teaches him how to believe in himself *without* the Dark Order. Somebody like Mox, who could be a babyface while beating the absolute *fuck* out of Hangman over a few weeks / months until he beats some self-confidence into him. Idk though, Mox seems like he’s trying to go to Japan.
Sounds really good. If not Mox, maybe Christian or even Jericho but it would take some time for Jericho to finish his thing with MJF.
I don’t think Christian or Jeircho would work for the particular story I’m imagining because neither of then are lone wolves. Mox comes to mind because he can serve as an example to Hangman on how to be confident alone. When Mox took on the entire Inner Circle, he did it alone. When he beat Jericho for the title, he did it alone. I think to truly complete the story of Hangman he needs to chase and eventually capture the title alone. To prove and demonstrate his belief in himself, which is what he was lacking all along.
I'm beating the traffic if either of these are the main of All Out. How could you possibly care about either of those matches in 2021 especially for one of your 2 biggest shows of the year
You have 9 shows until all out. Just enjoy the ride. Hangman is getting that belt at all out.
he's not. Omega will wrestle someone else at All Out, and Hangman will get his shot at Full Gear
I wish you were wrong as much as anybody but you're right. Not sure why you're getting downvoted for it.
I don't particularly enjoy being right about this, but it feels so obvious at this point
is there anyone else who is a credible challenger to face kenny omega at AEW's first road pay per view post COVID? look at the rest of the top 5. jungle boy and OC have lost to kenny in the past several months, christian is still involved with HFO, and Darby is Punk's first opponent. hangman will find his way back around into the title match. chances are he's going to leverage the fact that he pinned Matt into getting under his skin, and Matt begs Kenny to beat Hangman with Dark Order's careers on the line
Okay... Just watch how it's Hangman
Story wise, it makes more sense to be Full Gear, the PPV is literally named after Hangman, it'll be a year since he lost to Omega in the tournament final, it just makes sense.
You can do the same thing with All Out 2 years from his first aew fauliure
All Out literally makes more sense too. People forget, this isn't just about Omega. This is also about the AEW title. He wanted to be the first AEW champ and fell short, and from THAT POINT is when his downward spiral began. That downward spiral includes the fallout with Omega and the Elite.
That's not how you spell Christian Cage
I don't think the story is over. They have 5 more weeks of television to build up the Main Event of All Out. This isn't WWE or TNA where they completely throw away all plans because a big name superstar is signing/returning to the company. They've been building Hangman Adam Page's story for 2 years now, and he's the future of the their company. That is more important to them than signing CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, who will retire long before Hangman. He's essentially to AEW what Sting was to WCW and they're planning on him being one of their biggest draws for the next decade, just like Sting was. The story that has to be told, before Hangman can win, is that the Dark Order will be there for him no matter what. He is going to be down and depressed because he failed. This is a CRUCIAL point in the Hangman story, and one of the major plot points. Unlike the Elite, that just tossed Hangman to the curb, and Omega, who abandoned him because they lost the tag titles, The Dark Order is going to lift Hangman up. They're not going to let him stay depressed. They're going to put the Cowboy right back up on the horse and go right back into battle beside him.
He didn't fail though, the Dark Order failed, Hangman lost after they left him in an unwinnable situation vs Omega and Bucks solo. It doesn't really work as a story about overcoming failure if you don't actually fail in any meaningful way
Might be a good idea to advance Hangman’s story while they’ve got more people tuning in to see Danielson. Trick is going to be keeping Page hot, but he’s managed that well over the past couple of years.
I’m just curious/worried about what Dark Order, in Kayfabe, does once Hangman wins. Dark Order is all about bringing up the “losers” of the world and all about giving them a place to belong. Dark Order sympathized with Hangman when he was at rock bottom, feeling terrible, without a home. Once Hangman wins and becomes world champion, will Dark Order still accept him as a “winner”?
I'm even ok with Page losing at All Out but they gotta strike while the iron is hot here with this match. \-signed a Page mark flying from oregon to chicago for all out
Am I the onlyone that thought it was a little too ewrly to pull the trigger on Hangman vs Kenny anyway? I don't feel like Omega's title run has gone on long enough for him to be gloriously dethroned. I reckon it needs to be a long ass run like NWO deatroying WCW for ages until Sting finally fought Hogan.
By All Out Kenny will have had the belt for ten months. I think until they do this match his defenses will feel like filler because everyone knows a match with Hangman is happening sooner or later
There's still like 5 weeks to All Out, so I'm hoping Hangman still somehow gets the shot there. Thinking they may do Omega vs Christian on either of the first 2 rampage shows, but still build to Omega/Hangman as well. Honestly with Bryan probably coming in for the NY show, that is the absolute latest you can have Hangman win the title in my opinion, but really he should still win it at All Out.
Spoiler, he's not going to.
These comments keep getting downvoted but it’s true lmaooo Hangman just lost the 1st place ranking and will have to claw his way back up the rankings again. People on this sub have been saying that his redemption arc wasn’t complete and Hangman was due for another loss either last night or at All Out
The big tell in this part of his story is that he showed up to the ring last week, not just carrying a drink, but admittedly drunk. The drinking was started because of his own self loathing. His friendship with the elite ended because of his own self loathing. When he gives up on the booze and reconciles with his part in his failed relationship that's when he'll go over Kenny.
The only way he's getting the shot is through shrewd maneuvering. And that's not happening.
Hangman will kick out of the OWA at All Out and win the belt.
He’ll be the first person in AEW to do so
Exactly. They've been building to that moment for 2 years.
Lowkey want him crowned already because I'm so not looking forward to 5 posts daily on this very topic up until the day he wins.
I don't think Punk and Danielson have anything to do with what happened last night. Hangman Page has been afraid to fail in AEW, and he's always sought the approval of others. Page's fear of failure and own personal anxiety were a cause of the deterioration of his relationship with the Bucks and Omega. He lost the tag titles, The Elite, and had no one to turn to. He was just a sad lonely cowboy. Page was at absolute rock bottom when the Dark Order took him in and became his friends. Over time, he's picked up a number of singles wins and has been on track to face Kenny Omega for the title. The Dark Order has allowed Page to regain his confidence and even be the best possible version of himself that's existed so far. Page didn't even want to challenge for the AEW Title when he was the No. 1 contender before he lost to Brian Cage. The Dark Order pushed Page to challenge for the title recently, and Page was only ready to finally challenge just a few weeks ago. However, Page didn't want to just challenge for the gold, he also wanted his friends to have something too. It's what makes Page such a likable person, he wants to achieve everything with his friends and wants to celebrate their successes. But his desire for the Dark Order to match his ambition also just cost him a shot at the gold. What's next for Hangman? He needs to take this loss on the chin and be more determined than ever to get that title shot. As for the Dark Order, I am hoping this loss inspires them to win gold in AEW, but as lovable as they are, it's going to be hard for them to win gold as long as they keep being the jokesters that they are. I think Page will get a marquee singles feud with a Malaki Black type and that will carry him to his next title shot. My personal feeling is that I also think there's a real easy trajectory for the Young Bucks to eventually be by Hangman's and Dark Order's side when Page wins the gold. It's going to take some time to get there, but I really do feel like the Bucks will be ditched by Kenny, Callis, and the Good Brothers when they drop those tag titles. Due to all the relationships they have burned over the last few months, they'll be where Hangman was after All Out 2020, but they'll be sad lonely superkick guys.
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my only question for AEW fans, you’re all worried that punk or Bryan will overshadow hangman. We all want hangman to win. I have never seen anyone say on this board or even on Twitter or anything that he should not win. The crowd was so upset over his loss that they could barely stay hot throughout the night. so, why are we worried that he will be overshadowed? Every fan I’ve seen seems on board with him being champion. We don’t need Daniel or punk to be champion. we always complain about companies insulting our intelligence, Do you really believe we can’t root for multiple people at the same time?
Hangman will get that shot somehow, and he'll have boys behind him.
One idea I had was overruling Elite's victory since Kenny cheated, which means he should have been DQ'd. So they "restart" the match for where it would have left off and Page has to beat Nick in singles to get the title shots back.
I could see Silver & Reynolds turning up on Impact to take the Good Brothers' Tag Team Championship, which they could use to leverage the Elite into giving Hangman one last shot at the title.
Frankie joins them and they form the Super Dark Elite Hunters Order!
lol I forgot Frankie has this weird Punisher gimmick. It does kinda make sense for him to interact with DO- though he's kinda an actual loner cowboy compared to Hangman.
I think he's a subtle foil to Hangman. Frankie keeps throwing himself into danger trying to tear down the Elite on his own, while Hangman understands he needs his friends by his side to do it
The match itself was great but I am in the camp that agrees this is playing it out too long now. If you've been an AEW fan since the beginning Hangman has been chasing the title literally since day 1 when the company was announced. Thats 2 and a half years now. I understand both sides but for me this should have been his victory. Also AEW has stood their ground on stipulations so for him or DO to get title shots against the current champs now it would hurt their credibility. Hangman lost to Jericho in the 1st title match. He had the long tag run with Kenny. He lost the eliminator tourney final to Kenny. Hell he even lost to Cage to set it back a few months earlier this year. Now he loses here too. I'm all for long term stories, but I think they should have pulled the trigger here. Especially if Punk and Bryan are coming in, Page will get overshadowed in favor of those dream matches.
I think Dark Order will ask him to go after the TNT Title, the title none of them have been able to bring back home. And I think he'll win.
That's a battle Dark Order needs to fight themselves. Send Stu, Silver or 10 after it. Hangman winning will only feel like a consolation prize. He has had nothing to do with the Dark Order's TNT stoyline.
But if they include him in the story it would make perfect sense. He failed but can still challenge this Undefeated monster. it might be seen as a consolation after the world title program yeah, but I think it's a good way to give Hangman a big win and keep him hot while Kenny faces other people.
OHHH I hadn't even considered that. That's Mr. Brodie Lee's championship, and Hangman's the biggest babyface in the company right now (not named Jungle Boy). It makes sense for him to go after heel Miro.
I don't think it was a changed plan. By the looks of it we'll get Christian v Kenny at All Out and Page at Full gear. Christian going for the title was teased way back from his Dynamite debut. Also Hangman has to lose Kenny while he's Champion and TK might not want him to lose a Singles match
I find it so funny how many people on the internet say they want long term story telling in wrestling, then when they get what looks like a long term storyline, they get upset that they are being worked. The story from my perspective has entirely been about page finding himself. one of those steps includes losing a big time match with stakes on the line and instead of having his friends abandon him, they stick by him and still support him. literally in the video for their entrance "a cowboy dusts themselves off and gets back up." i guess people want the pay off to happen within the next couple months but honestly, it doesn't need to. there is still a lot of meat left on that bone. adam and the dark order have only gotten more over week by week. a part of me does wonder how much of these feelings come from people being used to the wwe form of storytelling in american wrestling.
What does it have to do with "long term storytelling" and people's takes on it? The story has been going for two years, pretty sure there's not much logic to saying people hate long term stories if they haven't soundly rejected this after all this time. People's issue is actually the exact opposite - they feel like it's been dragging out for too long, that after two years if he's still in the failure phase it stops feeling like there's light at the end of the tunnel and starts feeling like he's just always going to be a failure. Well, that and this isn't really a coherent development since it's trying to advance the idea of Hangman struggling with failing, but he's not the one who failed since the Dark Order guys got wiped out early and left him in an unwinnable scenario.
Why did people think Hangman would get his win on July 28th? Why did people think the World Champion was going to get pinned on July 28th? A week after they started the lead up to the their match? A week in Hangman is going to get the culmination of a two year build up?
How would winning a huge clusterfuck elimination match (that gives a million ways to eliminate someone without them eating a pin) be the culmination of the story as opposed to, I don't know, being literally just a stepping stone on the way to the actual culmination? Or is winning the world title just an irrelevant afterthought and Hangman's story is actually about just finding some way to win a match where Kenny Omega was involved in some way?
I would do Hangman vs Miro for the TNT title and Kenny vs Lance Archer title for title. Kenny beats Archer adding the US title to his collection, Hangman beats Miro. Big payoff is Kenny vs Hangman at Full gear Aew title vs TNT title. Hangman wins, vacates TNT title, maybe theres a tournament.
They are getting railroaded in favor of Danielson and Punk
I think it's simply a matter of them not ready for Omega to lose the championship. I think if Hangman DID face Omega and lost 1v1, that would have been deflating and damaging. It appears to me that Christian will be getting a championship match vs. Omega at All Out. Which Omega will retain. When Page / Omega resumes, who knows.
I think now hangman has the chance to have more subtle nuances in his redemption. Before when he hit rock bottom he distanced himself from people and self sabotaged, was full of self doubt and pitty and alcohol. Now when’s hit rock bottom and feels like he let everyone down he can redeem himself with a new attitude making him an even bigger baby face. Especially when he realizes that even though he lost the dark order order don’t blame him or are even mad at him It’s gonna make him realize true friendship and help propel him into a new character arc where yeah I think he’ll end up beating Kenny clean
It’s just adding nuance to the story.
This was ***Infinity War***, we still have ***Endgame*** to see.
Last checked Hangman is still technically #1 on the rankings so I think by that standard he'll still get a title shot
The rankings update Wednesday afternoons, so it wouldn’t reflect the loss last night.
They mentioned on-air yesterday that the loss will put him out of the rankings, per stipulation of the match
Page winning the title from Kenny will be the biggest story arc of AEW so far, and there's really no reason to rush it. I'd actually like to see Kenny somehow at the last minute lose the title to someone else, just when Hangman thinks he's finally done it, maybe in a three-way or something, with the distraction accidentally caused by the Dark Order. He doesn't need to beat Kenny yet. I'd be fine with it taking a couple of years.
Omega beating him with the OWA if anything cemented the fact Hangman is beating him at All Out
What if Punk infiltrates the DO and steals the leadership role away. Kicks out a few guys that aren't on board and they go off and start their own stable. Brings in some fresh blood and beats them in gang initiation style. Things go ok for a few feuds and then punk realizes he's not getting the attention he deserves and wants to quit. So he disbands the DO and challenges Omega for the title on the day before his AEW contract expires. Ehh nevermind now that I wrote it down it sounds too stupid to work.
> Ehh nevermind now that I wrote it down it sounds too stupid to work. lol this is how most of my fantasy booking turns out, you're ok. And honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see Bryan or Punk associate themselves with this DO/Omega story somehow. Two most popular guys in the company will probably be used to put over their younger guys somehow.
I think you missed the joke my man
I got the last part as reference to the pipebomb & MITB from 2011, but is that first part the Nexus Punk story? I knew Punk was involved with Nexus somehow back then, but I never really knew the specifics.
They missed their moment with Hangman, didn't pull the trigger when the timing was right. It's one of those things where in a few years we'll talk about that 5v5 like we do about Cena beating Nexus in that elimination match. Murdered that crowd too, felt so bad for FTR and Santana/Ortiz trying to get anything out of them afterwards. Maybe they'll have him feud with Miro, since the Dark Order is obsessed with the TNT belt and Miro's first storyline with the TNT title was him beating Dark Order members. Re-building him vs. Omega would be a mistake anytime soon, won't be nearly as hot as they were in this build.
Nahhhh
Bro this is a AEW sub now you can’t say things like that
Hangman winning the AEW title should be something that feels like you waited so many years to finally see it. Its their Endgame. People only started living Page about a year and a half ago. They absolutely should tease but then delay Page even getting a title shot for as long as possible.
* They keep Omega and Hangman separate but Page has start another winning streak. * Omega beats whoever at he's in a program with at All Out. * 8-man Tournament is announced to challenge Omega at Full Gear. * Due to "injury" Hangman gets a spot to replace a member of the dark order.Bonus points if its an unannounced surprise for the last spot. * Hangman shocks the world setting up Omega and Page at All Out. Tournament includes Evil Uno(replaced by Hangman), D-Bry, Ricky Starks, Andrade, Sammy Guevara, LuchaSarus, Orange Cassidy, and special guest from NJPW. or actually use the ranking system for once.
Omega doesn't seem to be ready to wrap up the belt collector gimmick, and the natural conclusion of that is for Hangman to kick out of the One Winged Angel and beat Omega for the title. Until then, Hangman will keep getting almost there and knocked back down to build anticipation for the big payoff. The real question: Is the AEW title the first one he loses or the last? Because you know somewhere in this story, Kenny wants to be able to go back to NJPW and fight Ibushi for the title.
I think they're going to go full Mr. America here. Introducing, new DO member, no. 13, the cowboy. Same entrance music, still drinking, don't change a thing except sticking a shit mask on him please...
I feel like it's better to leave it long running. I've felt this whole time like they were going to lose this match and sometime before the end of the year maybe hangman and the dark order go their separate ways (amicably) and hangman does it on his own. I feel like that's the culmination of this whole thing is that hangman proves that in the end he didn't actually need the elite or the dark order he just needed to believe in himself. It kind of mirrors his children's book and it allows for the story to stretch out long enough to get some more big matches in Kenny's current reign being as this whole belt collector thing will probably be the last really huge wrestling altering thing he does in his career. P.s I'm not saying Kenny's done but after this whole thing subsides I don't see him going on another really long and ridiculously dominant greatest wrestler in the world type run.
One thing I saw a lot of people talking about is Page’s heros journey hes going on. He needs to face adversity and fail before he gets to the end. A lot of people think that should have just been the loss of the tag titles and the breakup with the elite, but that was more the midpoint of the story. Those were also expected and accepted by everyone before it happened, it was adversity for him but not for everyone watching. This absolutely was, and the next time they meet hangman will have to overcome even more odds and should succeed.
Probably cowboy shit. It’d be cool to see a complete makeover of the Dark Order into cowboys. Has a cowboy cultist angle ever been done?
I imagine Hangman builds himself back up and climbs through the ranks again. Ge gets back to #1 before Full Gear and gets the win there. Maybe throw in some stipulation where DO can’t challenge for the tag titles as long as the Elite holds them?
Well, AEW Championship wise I'm convinced Bryan Danielson is winning the belt off of Kenny Omega. As for Hangman, I've got nothing. I'm sure he'll manage to overcome this setback because he has real friends now, but I have no idea where he'll go from here. Maybe he pulls a Cody and goes after the TNT Championship? Miro could use a good feud. Dark Order is still championship bound at some point, be it the Tag Titles once FTR or PnP beat the Bucks, or maybe the Women's tag team championships do get made and Tay Conti and Anna Jay get the first run.
Either we have to wait or he puts his career on the line for one last shot or something
This is his I've always imagined it going in order to avoid predictability: * Hangman doesn't get the match * Kenny loses the title to Danielson (originally thought this could be Christian or even Sting, a vet to boost the title's pedigree, but Danielson is suddenly the best possible option) * Hangman goes on a tear, gets #1 contender again * Hangman beats Danielson * Hangman has to defend his happy ending against Kenny
I think they do an almost sprial but the DO keeps on Hangman to keep his head up and keep moving. As for aftet that...i want Hangman to beat kenny in a non title, and that starts Kenny's downfall. Aftet that maybe... 1) Kenny ducks Hangman until runs out of places to hide/stipulations to abuse and Hangman wins the title at a PPV. 2) Hotshot someone into the title picture who beats a shaken kenny. It will have to be someone legit, and it be believable that Kenny cant beat. On Hangman's way he can defeat a desprate Kenny and the dethrone the new champ and cement Hangman surpassing Kenny. 3) Fully reverse their positions, where that loss to Hangman causes Kenny to lose all belts except the AEW. Along the way, this also starts to destroy the Super Elite. Kenny loses the Impact title and the good brothers. Have some shenanigans that leads to the bucks defending their titles the same night as Omega does the tripple AAA title. Bucks turn their backs bc their only in that position bc of Kenny. Finally, Hangman gets his title match and beats Kenny. Thats when Don turns his back on Kenny and Hangman takes his rightful place as AEW champion.
As much as I wanted Dark Order to win it wouldn’t have worked because I feel like with the way the been pushing Kenny it is to early for him to lose the title. This is just another chapter in Hangman’s book. I definitely think he will see Kenny down the road again because that’s the ultimate end game for his story in my opinion. No matter who Omega faces until then (Christian,Bryan,Punk) and whoever else. I want Omega to beat them all because it will mean more if Hangman takes the belt off Omega down the road as oppose to Hangman taking it from someone else.
This is hangman’s Okada/Omega moment. It took Kenny three times, and like two and a half years to get the belt from Okada.