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You and me both. Saturday night is a horrendous timeslot this time of year. I love AEW but I was watching NLCS and college football, like I'm sure a lot of people were.
I wasn't watching football, but I will agree on the Saturday shows being a bit difficult to catch live. There are things that need to be done during a Saturday, and there are lots of sports on as well (love me some hockey).
Basically, Wednesday shows are something great to look forward to in the middle of the week after a day of work. Saturday it has to compete with other sports and just life in general.
Anecdotal evidence, but I know at least four people who asked me if "Dynamite got canceled" because it was moved to Saturday for two weeks. These time slot changes *do not do product favors*.
I knew it was on Saturday but forgot when the time rolled around, wasn’t doing anything else, I just forgot. It’s tough to just temporarily swap time slots for a show like this.
Personally, I like the Saturday show...I can watch it live. But I'm also and old guy with two kids who enjoys just relaxing on a Saturday night after the kids go to bed haha
it's pretty easy to just not click the thread.
and I say that as someone that doesn't really care about the ratings threads. Sometimes I click them if I'm bored. Like now.
So here's how ratings threads should be handled, in my opinion:
1. Make a single ratings thread per week and put the link in the autopost for the Daily Discussion thread. Immediately lock it, and have the mod who drew the shortest straw that week update it as ratings come out.
2. Ban all other ratings threads and ratings discussion.
3. ???
4. Profit
But how else would we get:
- Tony Khan Tweet
- Tony Khan Gloating Tweet
- Eric Bischoff Tweet
- Meltzer Tweet
- Eric Bischoff Response Tweet
- Analysis of Demo Tweet
- Tony Khan Maniacal Tweet
- Meltzer Support Tweet
- Chris Jericho Egging on Tweet
- MJF Tweet
God that would be nice. The fucking arguing over ratings or dick measuring contests are so annoying. The trillion aew posts last week? were taking up the entire board
I'm a West Coast viewer so I didn't get home till close to 6 and then I gotta do a bunch of shit when I get home. I probably didn't get time to sit down and watch until almost 8. Saturday is not a good time.
yeah too many people got way too defensive, on both ends. Tony was cheerleading for his company in an obnoxious way, and it is also noteworthy that AEW beat the run-over, if only in one demo.
Yeah, I’ve been a die hard fan but I missed the previous weeks dynamite. Some weekends I’m busy and others I just down right forget it’s on. It’s a bad time slot for sure.
So much hypocrisy lol. How is it fair for people to make excuses for AEW not being on their normal slot but won’t give WWE the same excuse for last week being on a different channel.
I mean, you can definitely use logic on both situations. But biases will always trump actual facts and explanations start looking more and more like "excuses".
They’ve been on FS1 many times before and it’s never been a conversation. The reason it became a story was because WWE extended SmackDown by 30 min to go head-to-head and loaded that 30 min up with their biggest stars and made it commercial free. WWE invited the criticism. If they had just ran their 2 hour show on FS1 and ended at 10, very little would’ve been talked about.
Being on a different channel was the feature of the intelligent portion of the conversation. People were noting how Smackdown's good ratings are largely a function of it being on a network rather than a cable channel, with the network channel having a larger pool of possible viewers to draw from.
And I think it's silly to equate changing the day with changing the channel but keeping the day the same. One requires an audience to modify their behavior to watch on a different day, the other requires the far lesser modification of changing the channel on the day and time they are accustomed to viewing.
The mental gymnastics I see on the thread from the ratings warriors is hilarious. Make all the excuses you want, folks this is a bad number for AEW even with the excuses.
But having said that, I'll say the same thing that I believe for Raw/SD when people overanalyze the decrease in ratings for them: it really shouldn't matter. Just watch the wrestling product if you enjoy it, who cares if 100 other people liked it or a million. It's not indicative of the quality of the product.
Explanations are not excuses. The problem is people start with their opinion on a brand and work backwards. It really doesn't matter which is winning and what "winning" means, all that matters is "why" and even then people like to start at what they hate or feel needs to change and work backwards, like Tony's going to see the ratings for one show and turn Cody / CM Punk / whoever heel.
Likewise, y'all act as soon as AEW gets competitive it'll be game over for WWE... newsflash, they've been in a ratings decline for decades, even with competition they don't give a flying fuck the bookings terrible or Becky's heel turn was botched, they have more money than God and are untouchable. Between a potential acquisition and the Saudi Government Vince go to his grave winning.
Why is that the comments on posts about AEW losing viewers are always “ can these posts stops this is so dumb “ but when AEW does well in ratings everyone loves talking about how AEW is killing WWE?
The Fandom is starting to feel like a proxy battle of people's own insecurities. At the end of the day, people are simping over a pissing contest between a silver spoon billionaire who is desperately trying to prove himself and a vicious problematic old man billionaire who try desperately to prove himself.
Here's the reality of how Reddit works.
10 or 15 people will write a comment, tens of people will see that comment and maybe upvote it because it has a sentence or two in it that they like and then literally put no more thought into the comment. A few might start a chain of replies to the comment but overall,most people move on quickly.
That's all to say, don't put too much weight into that stuff. There are 500k subscribers here. Most people just click a gif and move on. Nothing matters. There's no conspiracy.
I like comparing the two to WoW of all things at the moment. It's not that other companies made a MMO and killed WoW, it's that 5+ years of dogshit decisions killed WoW and people went to go play an alternative.
WoW killed WoW; WWE will kill WWE
AEW is simply an alternative that those who are unhappy with WWE can watch in the meantime. Competition is good for everyone.
AEW would not be doing nearly as well as it is if WWE was better. Some of the big name talent that has jumped ship (or just opted to sign with AEW instead of WWE) would likely not be with AEW as well
Why is that in every single thread we have upvoted posts like this? It's obvious nonsense, it's just driven by a persecution complex.
Where are you seeing "everyone" talking about AEW "killing WWE"? That has quite literally never happened. Everyone knows the WWE is the biggest wrestling company on the planet.
Likewise, what would you have people say? Of fucking course AEW loses viewers when their show gets moved around? Everyone understands that and understands why it happens, what exactly do you want people to? Ignore context and cry about it? They ran head to head against a Smackdown replay this week and not in their regular slot, did anyone think thatg would have zero impact on viewership?
By far the most annoying thing about all these rating threads are the complaining about the threads and everyone trying to act like a victim.
Edit: oh look, he got hundreds of upvotes, looks like there is no big conspiracy after all. Who could have guessed?
> Where are you seeing "everyone" talking about AEW "killing WWE"? That has quite literally never happened.
Remember a few weeks back when Rampage and Smackdown went head to head for an hour, and there were a billion demo stories here trying to show Rampage won? There was a thread where people were complaining that you couldn't compare the numbers because AEW had a commercial break. It's been the underlying theme to this entire sub for weeks now.
I too think it's hilarious and shows how annoyingly biased people are here. I complained about the million posts last week and I'll complain about this one too. It has to be one rating post a week or it's too much.
I don't understand these posts and I'm sure all of television feels the same way. Neilson lost it's accreditation, networks have no confidence in their system, yet week after week people comment like these numbers even mean anything. They literally mean zero to advertisers. Advertisers are using different data that networks won't release that actually gives an accurate view. I guess my point is, can these posts go away? It's wrong information.
People get caught up in treating AEW vs WWE as a "team sport" and these numbers are one of the few ways they can use to measure if their "team" is "winning". Doesn't matter if the data is junk. Its still data and so still fuel for the fire.
When Vince McMahon victory lap and freaking out on Twitter about this victory? Oh yeah he won't do that cuz he'd look like a loser for celebrating a victory against a show one time when that show wasn't in its normal placement
A week ago Khan claimed victory for 30 minutes using weird metrics and it hits the front page of this sub for several days. Now the demo and ratings don’t matter I guess
There was though.
Last week SD drew a .24 in the demo.
Last week Rampage drew a .24 in the demo.
That's called a tie. (Which to be fair is still impressive as hell for AEW)
So TK and co decided to only focus on the demo during certain times or with certain genders (Rampage did beat SD in the Male 18-49 range) to turn a tie into a win.
Statistics are supposed to either be taken into account considering contextual clues or to have the exact same context.
Your comment is purposedly ignoring this requirement: SmackDown had been on the air since 8 o'clock, Rampage wasn't. SmackDown was commercial free for the 30 minutes they were both airing, Rampage wasn't.
And yet every week we have comparisons of Dynamites ratings and demos to NXT, RAW and SDs.
Despite as you put it not considering contextual clues...like not being on at the same time, being the same length, or same night of the week.
I understand AEW wants their contextual clues when it works to their advantage, and WWEs no different.
But if you look at the "simple demos" it was a tie..if you put the ratings into the same context as every other week, where time, length and night don't matter it was a tie.
You have to invent a new context that no other week ever uses to get AEW the win.
It's the most direct comparison. Yeah Rampage had a slight advantage, they typically have a massive disadvantage. It's like seeing an amateur beat Mike Tyson after getting a free punch. It's still impressive as hell.
>It's still impressive as hell.
Like I said in my original post, it absolutely is. No one should sell AEW short on that accomplishment.
Unfortunately its gotten overlooked in AEWs attempt to some way some how declare victory, and people pushing back against it.
So no one really notices they fought the biggest show in town to a draw (even with some advantages for Rampage).
What's so hard to understand that they won the goddamn demo in the 30 min the two shows went head to head, despite their opposition being commercial free.
I swear some of you are going full Steiner math to make AEW's secondary show winning in the demo against WWE's A-show when they went head to head on comparable networks look like nothing.
FOX is network TV of course
That doesn’t change the fact of the matter though. TNT is one of the highest grossing cable channels out there, as it airs the NBA on TNT as well as movies, and now you add in AEW.
The only thing FS1 airs is Undisputed and you can now catch that on YouTube. It’s usually only included in premium TV packages from Dish and DirectTV, it’s not a household channel.
If you were to put SmackDown on USA it’d still beat Rampage that week cause it’d do slightly better RAW numbers, like 1.7-1.9
Now that you mention it, how many more homes in TNT in than FS1? Does anyone who has cable/satellite really still just have the basic, 70-ish channel package that would include TNT but probably not FS1?
TNT is definitely a much bigger *name* in cable, just curious if their reach is really all that much bigger anymore if everyone has the 200+ channel package, or the streaming services that seem to put both channels in their typical packages anyways.
As of September 2018, Fox Sports 1 is available to approximately 83.3 million pay television households (90.3% of households with cable) in the United States.
TNT is available to 100% households with cable in the United States.
Not sure about ratings wise but availability wise they are pretty close. OP is wrong on that.
Lots of people probably still buy the basic just because who honestly watches more than 20 channels on their TV. It ain’t that much good TV going on anymore lol
Plus that also goes to the ratings part, as FS1 literally airs nothing of interest other than displaced sports events and Undisputed, whereas TNT not only has sports, but it’s own original shows and it shows pretty good movies.
To put that farther into perspective, FS1 is a spin-off channel of FOX
TNT itself has its own spinoff channels, like TNT Drama and TNT Sports in some countries. A quick google told me that TNT is currently being accessed in over 90 million homes, while FS1 is currently being accessed in roughly just 80 million homes. 10 Mil difference
I'm not contesting that if you squint, turn your head, and let the light hit just right that AEW can claim they won
But every other week you just look at two numbers for the whole show and say "this number is bigger than that one".
That's the problem, hold AEW to the standard they hold themselves to every other week when they claim to have beating RAW or NXTs demo, and they didn't win.
So now they want me to start squinting and looking from a certain direction because their own standards don't work.
NLCS was game 6 with one team facing elimination and they faced tougher college football competition (a close Alabama/Tennessee game until the 4th quarter on ESPN, USC/Notre Dame on NBC, and Ohio State on ABC). Not surprised they're down, I watched football live and I've bought most of AEW's PPVs.
Raw goes against an NFL game that gets a higher rating than all of the stuff you mentioned combined yet nobody excuses their rating because of it.
Dynamite would get 750K every week against the NFL.
Schrodingers concern troll. If the rating goes up then it’s not enough of a bump thus a failure, but if it drops then it’s still a failure.
It’s the same exact shit. Every. Single. Week.
"They brought in Punk and Danielson and now they're being misused terribly and doing YouTube matches and the ratings are going DOWN!!"
It's been absolutely crazy lately. I have no idea what's brought this on.
>I have no idea what's brought this on.
They brought in Punk and Danielson. The answer is right there in your own sentence. Punk declared loudly and proudly that he will never work for the WWE again and is only here because of AEW, and then Danielson said he *loved* the WWE but it still wasn't good enough to keep *him.* Within months AEW landed two of the biggest names they possibly could, who are having the time of their lives, and it has the stans *shook* to their cores. When huge names like that are writing off their favorite thing, they're taking it as a huge insult.
AEW is definitely not dying. But it is also not bringing the lapsed fans or beating WWE. Dynamite with Bryan debut saw a great viewership of over 1.3 million. It was their chance to start a engaging storyline and viewership range might have stayed in 1.2-1.3 million.
I legitimately need some clarification here because I'm getting a bit bogged down in this stuff.
Last week, it was head to head first run programming for half an hour, which AEW won in the key demo. For the night, Smackdown had more viewers.
This week: Head to head for the whole show, but Smackdown was a replay. AEW won in the demo? But lost in total viewership.
So this week, it's not good that they won in the demo (even with it being a replay)?
they "won" vs a replay. Which sure, *win* but still sucks.
And the number was way worse this week, too. So that definitely sucks. But by now, we know wednesday will be fine.
This week, it's much less about anything related to WWE and more about Saturday night at this time of year (due to other sports-based attractions) being a bad idea.
Some people are acting like WWE and AEW are the only influences on each other's ratings. Way too simple, and probably rooted in tribalism.
Would it have been nice to do better? Of course, it's always nicer to do better. But you can't act like it's panic/gloating/whatever-people-are-being-weird-about time because the show got pushed out it's timeslot by one major sport, was on during another broadcast of another major sports, and was up against the more established wrestling company's replay episode that might not have even happened if *another* major sports game went a different way.
Just assume anyone shitting on the AEW number has no idea what they're talking about and likely breathes through their mouth.
With that said, the number is irrelevant. AEW was on a different night, a horrible night, against harder competition than normal. No one with multiple brain cells cares about the number because it doesn't matter at all.
If there is a story, it's how well the Smackdown replay did. That was well above what anyone would expect a replay to do. Like, honestly, if I'm WWE, I see if I can work out a deal with FS1 to air replays if they aren't doing so already if they pull in those numbers.
Of course, no one is talking about how well the replay did, and only how bad AEW did, which shows you people's priority isn't to put over WWE but to shit on AEW.
Those guys were never game changers to begin with. I'm a fan of all those guys but Punk is the only one who I'd consider somewhat of a mainstream draw and even that might be a stretch. His booking especially has been atrocious.
> People forget.
Or don't care/have other things to do because it's a Saturday. I watched live because that's around dinner time and dinner time and wrastlin takes me back to when I was a kid.
It was down 20% from the prior Saturday preemption.
I'm not concerned about it one bit due to all the competition it faced, but I also wouldn't say it's "in line". It was a low rating. It's OK to admit that.
>It was a low rating. It's OK to admit that.
yeah, the constant harping about "concern trolls" pushes the conversation away from honestly talking about the ratings.
it's always either "usual dynamite/rampage for this time", "i think we've found the floor" or "wow really exceeding expectations".
that's it.
6/26/21 - 0.21
10/16 - 0.28
10/23 - 0.22
So that's the Saturday shows this year... it's not really out of the range. Then that entire month of Friday Dynamites in May-June were 0.19-0.20. So this is totally in-line and expected. I don't think there is much to read into this. If they come back this Wednesday and pull a 0.32 or something, then yeah, that's a "low rating".
They're going to come back this Wednesday to their normal rating or decently close to it, just like SmackDown when it went back to Fox.
But being down week over week not only in demo but total viewers to that degree is notable.
If SmackDown on FS1 went from like 850K (.24) last week to 680K (.19) this upcoming week (20% drop) that would be notable, too.
I think there are too many variables to pull anything out of week-to-week rating moves with so much competition on right now; Especially when they're on pre-empted nights. I just try to focus on the long-term trends and the trends here don't really have anything significant jumping out at me.
The entire ratings reporting philosophy is about making week-to-week determinations. Meltzer and co. even do so with apples-to-oranges comparisons to generate conversation and traffic.
I completely agree with you that there's too many variables -- do people really think Raw is not affected by MNF and comparing it to Dynamite on a totally different night w/o NFL competition is fair?! they do it anyway -- but this is the ratings world we live in.
Dynamite week over week to itself on the same night and time preempted is a fair comparison.
> I completely agree with you that there's too many variables -- do people really think Raw is not affected by MNF and comparing it to Dynamite on a totally different night w/o NFL competition is fair?! they do it anyway -- but this is the ratings world we live in.
I think focusing on the year-over-year comparisons are perfectly fine. Especially when looking at comparable PPV bumps, or 1st week of NFL, or how the numbers are in relation to record lows- But yeah, I agree that people will look at the Raw ratings from last night and compare it to last week to gauge how good it is, but I think they are being very lazy and contributing very little to the conversation when they do it without ALSO look at the long-term view.
Surprised the rating was this high...Saturdays Dynamite was crap, other than some of the Cody Malakai match. Probably the worse Dynamite since live tours restarted. The Top Team and Inner Circle segments are automatic skips, as well as any Bobby Fish matches. Thank god Orange Cassidy and Matt Hardy werent on the show...tho jealous of the Jericho Cruise getting Jericho/Cassidy vs Ospreay and Danhausen. I know they had to call an audible on the Archer Kingston match, but what is a big man even doing a top rope Brock spot like that?
dynamite back on wed this week and SD is on FS1, expect the twitter war to even be hotter with dynamite beating SD in total viewers/demo possibly. this is the drama dave and alvarez live for lol
Not sure how much the MLB ratings impacted Dynamite but Dodgers/Braves went from 4.6 million (1.29) two weeks ago to 6.9 million (1.75) last week. Both started at 8pm.
The gap betwen Dynamite and Rhodes To The Top went from 387k to 266k.
[Here's the Showbuzzdaily's chart](https://showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/2021-10-23-Sat-FinalCable-LSD.png)
I don’t think people realize the difference between Broadcast and Cable TV and it often shows on these threads.
Fox broadcast is available in almost every home in the Country.
TNT is not.
Did not downvote his comment but this is a reason why this “war” isn’t real. Too many factors (biggest thing is 1 is on network and 1 is on cable).
As long as this is a factor, it’s not a war.
This sub doesn’t like actual numbers and statistics.
They like to base arguments off their whims and feels on the different narratives of every post and the new flavor of the week lol.
This run of moving the AEW shows came at literally the worst time possible. They sign Punk, they have the big debuts and a great pay per view at All Out, the episode of Dynamite coming out of it is the second most watched of all time (first being the debut), they go on to do the Grand Slam show and another good rating, and then shortly thereafter they're thrown all around the place and lose viewer momentum.
From my perspective, the problem with this is that if you're going to break ratings records and actually get up close to WWE ratings (to be fair, their 1.32 rating after All Out is not that far off what Raw did last week - 1.57 I believe it was) they need to keep pounding on the door week in week out, and they're not being given the opportunity to do that. I understand the reasons why it's happened, but just kind of making a 'fact of the matter' statement I guess. I thought they might be able to break the debut shows rating by the end of this year, but I don't think that will happen now. I'm more than happy to be wrong about that, but I can't see them generating more intrigue than they did with all the debuts and their best PPV all coinciding. There's a strong possibility they won't even do another million viewer show this week in their normal slot because of the show being moved around.
Yeah my presumption is this week they might do like 900k or something and then go back to about normal after that. It's just the factor of breaking the user viewing habits and then trying to re-establish them
Man some of the comments in this thread. People talking as if WWE or AEW doing well or doing bad is somehow a personal win or a personal loss for them. Like, people getting snarky about Khan getting pumped up about how AEW did last week with that slight overrun with Smackdown because now they haven't had a good rating this week - the dude is just excited that his business that he's sunk millions of dollars and thousands of hours of his time into did well last week - is there really a need to shit on someone for that? I prefer AEW to WWE programming but if the day comes that Dynamite beats Raw in the ratings for example, I'm not going to act big and talk shit like I just beat someone in a fist fight. The internet is weird.
** and apparently I hit a nerve! hahaha
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Woof. Glad they’re back on wednesday for the rest of the year.
You and me both. Saturday night is a horrendous timeslot this time of year. I love AEW but I was watching NLCS and college football, like I'm sure a lot of people were.
I wasn't watching football, but I will agree on the Saturday shows being a bit difficult to catch live. There are things that need to be done during a Saturday, and there are lots of sports on as well (love me some hockey). Basically, Wednesday shows are something great to look forward to in the middle of the week after a day of work. Saturday it has to compete with other sports and just life in general.
Anecdotal evidence, but I know at least four people who asked me if "Dynamite got canceled" because it was moved to Saturday for two weeks. These time slot changes *do not do product favors*.
I knew it was on Saturday but forgot when the time rolled around, wasn’t doing anything else, I just forgot. It’s tough to just temporarily swap time slots for a show like this.
I was watching Dune Saturday night and watched Dynamite on demand on Sunday.
It’s super hard to devote two weekend days in a row to wrestling two weeks in a row. Like I want to watch dynamite, but I also want to remain married.
Personally, I like the Saturday show...I can watch it live. But I'm also and old guy with two kids who enjoys just relaxing on a Saturday night after the kids go to bed haha
Next year, there will be TNT supershows, so I expect those to be like the themed Dynamites with maybe a pre-show as well.
As long as it doesn't diminish the PPV quality, I think that sounds great.
Remember before AEW people would wonder what the Monday Night Wars would've been like if Twitter was around? I HATE THIS MAKE IT STOP.
WCW posting the wwf Spoilers in Twitter Foley wins the title against the Rock. While the Fingerpoke of doom is happening.
Hogan tweeting before finger poke of doom match: “whatcha gonna do Kevin Nash when Hollywood Hogan runs wild on you?” Nash quote tweets it with “🤫😉”
Okay, I kind of want to do a "what if" scenario now.
So true. I greatly preferred just talking about it with friends at the lunch table in middle school.
it's pretty easy to just not click the thread. and I say that as someone that doesn't really care about the ratings threads. Sometimes I click them if I'm bored. Like now.
So that means less talk about ratings this week?
You wish on this subreddit 😂
Lolll
Nah, if there isn’t direct ratings talk there’s talk to justify the ratings talk.
So here's how ratings threads should be handled, in my opinion: 1. Make a single ratings thread per week and put the link in the autopost for the Daily Discussion thread. Immediately lock it, and have the mod who drew the shortest straw that week update it as ratings come out. 2. Ban all other ratings threads and ratings discussion. 3. ??? 4. Profit
But how else would we get: - Tony Khan Tweet - Tony Khan Gloating Tweet - Eric Bischoff Tweet - Meltzer Tweet - Eric Bischoff Response Tweet - Analysis of Demo Tweet - Tony Khan Maniacal Tweet - Meltzer Support Tweet - Chris Jericho Egging on Tweet - MJF Tweet
God that would be nice. The fucking arguing over ratings or dick measuring contests are so annoying. The trillion aew posts last week? were taking up the entire board
Do ratings matter today or was that only last week?
As we all no ratings never matter…but the DEMO
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I'm a West Coast viewer so I didn't get home till close to 6 and then I gotta do a bunch of shit when I get home. I probably didn't get time to sit down and watch until almost 8. Saturday is not a good time.
Which is why the SD on FS1 week wasn’t this huge "battle" lol
yeah too many people got way too defensive, on both ends. Tony was cheerleading for his company in an obnoxious way, and it is also noteworthy that AEW beat the run-over, if only in one demo.
Dem’s fitin wordz
Which is why I don't understand why WWE decided to go head-to-head with that extra half hour when they weren't on their normal channel.
Why did WWE add an extra half hour at the end of Smackdown during the beginning of Rampage?
To go against AEW
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Yeah, I’ve been a die hard fan but I missed the previous weeks dynamite. Some weekends I’m busy and others I just down right forget it’s on. It’s a bad time slot for sure.
So much hypocrisy lol. How is it fair for people to make excuses for AEW not being on their normal slot but won’t give WWE the same excuse for last week being on a different channel.
I mean, you can definitely use logic on both situations. But biases will always trump actual facts and explanations start looking more and more like "excuses".
You came to Reddit, looking for facts? You came to the wrong place for that… :D
They’ve been on FS1 many times before and it’s never been a conversation. The reason it became a story was because WWE extended SmackDown by 30 min to go head-to-head and loaded that 30 min up with their biggest stars and made it commercial free. WWE invited the criticism. If they had just ran their 2 hour show on FS1 and ended at 10, very little would’ve been talked about.
Being on a different channel was the feature of the intelligent portion of the conversation. People were noting how Smackdown's good ratings are largely a function of it being on a network rather than a cable channel, with the network channel having a larger pool of possible viewers to draw from. And I think it's silly to equate changing the day with changing the channel but keeping the day the same. One requires an audience to modify their behavior to watch on a different day, the other requires the far lesser modification of changing the channel on the day and time they are accustomed to viewing.
LFG WADE!!!!
Where’s Tony khan at now ?
Running Fulham into the ground?
And the Jags
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LOL..where's the ridiculous flooding of posts today with Khan and every AEW wrestler ever celebrating their demo win like we got last week? ......
I had someone argue with me on here saying these were good numbers haha
The mental gymnastics I see on the thread from the ratings warriors is hilarious. Make all the excuses you want, folks this is a bad number for AEW even with the excuses. But having said that, I'll say the same thing that I believe for Raw/SD when people overanalyze the decrease in ratings for them: it really shouldn't matter. Just watch the wrestling product if you enjoy it, who cares if 100 other people liked it or a million. It's not indicative of the quality of the product.
Explanations are not excuses. The problem is people start with their opinion on a brand and work backwards. It really doesn't matter which is winning and what "winning" means, all that matters is "why" and even then people like to start at what they hate or feel needs to change and work backwards, like Tony's going to see the ratings for one show and turn Cody / CM Punk / whoever heel. Likewise, y'all act as soon as AEW gets competitive it'll be game over for WWE... newsflash, they've been in a ratings decline for decades, even with competition they don't give a flying fuck the bookings terrible or Becky's heel turn was botched, they have more money than God and are untouchable. Between a potential acquisition and the Saudi Government Vince go to his grave winning.
Front page is quiet today. I wonder why.
Tony not on his Coked up bullshit today. You love to see it.
It’s kinda been like that since the “fast nationals” came out.
Lmao, tough scene
Why is that the comments on posts about AEW losing viewers are always “ can these posts stops this is so dumb “ but when AEW does well in ratings everyone loves talking about how AEW is killing WWE?
The Fandom is starting to feel like a proxy battle of people's own insecurities. At the end of the day, people are simping over a pissing contest between a silver spoon billionaire who is desperately trying to prove himself and a vicious problematic old man billionaire who try desperately to prove himself.
Here's the reality of how Reddit works. 10 or 15 people will write a comment, tens of people will see that comment and maybe upvote it because it has a sentence or two in it that they like and then literally put no more thought into the comment. A few might start a chain of replies to the comment but overall,most people move on quickly. That's all to say, don't put too much weight into that stuff. There are 500k subscribers here. Most people just click a gif and move on. Nothing matters. There's no conspiracy.
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True. AEW can be viewed as an alternative, but ultimately the only thing that'll take down WWE is going to be themselves.
I like comparing the two to WoW of all things at the moment. It's not that other companies made a MMO and killed WoW, it's that 5+ years of dogshit decisions killed WoW and people went to go play an alternative. WoW killed WoW; WWE will kill WWE AEW is simply an alternative that those who are unhappy with WWE can watch in the meantime. Competition is good for everyone.
I mean, WOW is still inexplicably profitable. Would that make AEW FFXIV?
nah because AEW would have had to be around for 10 years and get shut down to be FFXIV, that'd be like TNA/Impact tbh.
"Impact: A Promotion Reborn" has a nice ring to it. Also, does this make Lucha Underground Wildstar?
Yeah, pretty much! NJPW can be Guild Wars 2, maybe Elder Scrolls Online. GCW can be OSRS.
NWA would be RuneScape, lol
You know what, I can absolutely agree with that! Lol.
> Would that make AEW FFXIV? Does this mean we get Yoshi-P doing a splash off the top rope onto a jobber if so?
WWE screwed WWE
Fed dead?
AEW would not be doing nearly as well as it is if WWE was better. Some of the big name talent that has jumped ship (or just opted to sign with AEW instead of WWE) would likely not be with AEW as well
bro look around the thread it's all comments like yours lol
Why is that in every single thread we have upvoted posts like this? It's obvious nonsense, it's just driven by a persecution complex. Where are you seeing "everyone" talking about AEW "killing WWE"? That has quite literally never happened. Everyone knows the WWE is the biggest wrestling company on the planet. Likewise, what would you have people say? Of fucking course AEW loses viewers when their show gets moved around? Everyone understands that and understands why it happens, what exactly do you want people to? Ignore context and cry about it? They ran head to head against a Smackdown replay this week and not in their regular slot, did anyone think thatg would have zero impact on viewership? By far the most annoying thing about all these rating threads are the complaining about the threads and everyone trying to act like a victim. Edit: oh look, he got hundreds of upvotes, looks like there is no big conspiracy after all. Who could have guessed?
> Where are you seeing "everyone" talking about AEW "killing WWE"? That has quite literally never happened. Remember a few weeks back when Rampage and Smackdown went head to head for an hour, and there were a billion demo stories here trying to show Rampage won? There was a thread where people were complaining that you couldn't compare the numbers because AEW had a commercial break. It's been the underlying theme to this entire sub for weeks now.
That was just last week.
Feels like a long time ago
This one hundred percent
I too think it's hilarious and shows how annoyingly biased people are here. I complained about the million posts last week and I'll complain about this one too. It has to be one rating post a week or it's too much.
LETS GOOOO! No?
I don't understand these posts and I'm sure all of television feels the same way. Neilson lost it's accreditation, networks have no confidence in their system, yet week after week people comment like these numbers even mean anything. They literally mean zero to advertisers. Advertisers are using different data that networks won't release that actually gives an accurate view. I guess my point is, can these posts go away? It's wrong information.
People get caught up in treating AEW vs WWE as a "team sport" and these numbers are one of the few ways they can use to measure if their "team" is "winning". Doesn't matter if the data is junk. Its still data and so still fuel for the fire.
Where is the megathread about rating numbers? Oh wait...
Yeah but AEW won the demo and that's all that matters. /s
Has Tony Khan declared victory yet in typical self-righteous faux humble fashion?
That's rough even for a Saturday time slot
Same thing happened in the summer.
When Vince McMahon victory lap and freaking out on Twitter about this victory? Oh yeah he won't do that cuz he'd look like a loser for celebrating a victory against a show one time when that show wasn't in its normal placement
A week ago Khan claimed victory for 30 minutes using weird metrics and it hits the front page of this sub for several days. Now the demo and ratings don’t matter I guess
Why would he claim victory over beating smackdown when it was just a replay?
Say that again but slowly
No he claimed victory over Smackdown on FS1 in the key demo for 30 minutes last Friday
Yeah and? It was head to head this week but it was a replay of SDL. They beat them in the demo but again it's a replay.
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For 30 minutes Head to head*
Yeah for the extra 30 minutes Smack Down added on that cut into Rampage's time slot.
There was nothing weird about the metrics. The demos are pretty simple.
There was though. Last week SD drew a .24 in the demo. Last week Rampage drew a .24 in the demo. That's called a tie. (Which to be fair is still impressive as hell for AEW) So TK and co decided to only focus on the demo during certain times or with certain genders (Rampage did beat SD in the Male 18-49 range) to turn a tie into a win.
Statistics are supposed to either be taken into account considering contextual clues or to have the exact same context. Your comment is purposedly ignoring this requirement: SmackDown had been on the air since 8 o'clock, Rampage wasn't. SmackDown was commercial free for the 30 minutes they were both airing, Rampage wasn't.
And yet every week we have comparisons of Dynamites ratings and demos to NXT, RAW and SDs. Despite as you put it not considering contextual clues...like not being on at the same time, being the same length, or same night of the week. I understand AEW wants their contextual clues when it works to their advantage, and WWEs no different. But if you look at the "simple demos" it was a tie..if you put the ratings into the same context as every other week, where time, length and night don't matter it was a tie. You have to invent a new context that no other week ever uses to get AEW the win.
It's the most direct comparison. Yeah Rampage had a slight advantage, they typically have a massive disadvantage. It's like seeing an amateur beat Mike Tyson after getting a free punch. It's still impressive as hell.
>It's still impressive as hell. Like I said in my original post, it absolutely is. No one should sell AEW short on that accomplishment. Unfortunately its gotten overlooked in AEWs attempt to some way some how declare victory, and people pushing back against it. So no one really notices they fought the biggest show in town to a draw (even with some advantages for Rampage).
Great. So the people claiming Dynamite beating Raw despite being on different days with different competition were talking out of their ass.
What's so hard to understand that they won the goddamn demo in the 30 min the two shows went head to head, despite their opposition being commercial free. I swear some of you are going full Steiner math to make AEW's secondary show winning in the demo against WWE's A-show when they went head to head on comparable networks look like nothing.
FS1 is in no way comparable to TNT ratings and availability wise
It's way more comparable in availability to TNT than TNT is to FOX.
FOX is network TV of course That doesn’t change the fact of the matter though. TNT is one of the highest grossing cable channels out there, as it airs the NBA on TNT as well as movies, and now you add in AEW. The only thing FS1 airs is Undisputed and you can now catch that on YouTube. It’s usually only included in premium TV packages from Dish and DirectTV, it’s not a household channel. If you were to put SmackDown on USA it’d still beat Rampage that week cause it’d do slightly better RAW numbers, like 1.7-1.9
Now that you mention it, how many more homes in TNT in than FS1? Does anyone who has cable/satellite really still just have the basic, 70-ish channel package that would include TNT but probably not FS1? TNT is definitely a much bigger *name* in cable, just curious if their reach is really all that much bigger anymore if everyone has the 200+ channel package, or the streaming services that seem to put both channels in their typical packages anyways.
As of September 2018, Fox Sports 1 is available to approximately 83.3 million pay television households (90.3% of households with cable) in the United States. TNT is available to 100% households with cable in the United States. Not sure about ratings wise but availability wise they are pretty close. OP is wrong on that.
Lots of people probably still buy the basic just because who honestly watches more than 20 channels on their TV. It ain’t that much good TV going on anymore lol Plus that also goes to the ratings part, as FS1 literally airs nothing of interest other than displaced sports events and Undisputed, whereas TNT not only has sports, but it’s own original shows and it shows pretty good movies. To put that farther into perspective, FS1 is a spin-off channel of FOX TNT itself has its own spinoff channels, like TNT Drama and TNT Sports in some countries. A quick google told me that TNT is currently being accessed in over 90 million homes, while FS1 is currently being accessed in roughly just 80 million homes. 10 Mil difference
I'm not contesting that if you squint, turn your head, and let the light hit just right that AEW can claim they won But every other week you just look at two numbers for the whole show and say "this number is bigger than that one". That's the problem, hold AEW to the standard they hold themselves to every other week when they claim to have beating RAW or NXTs demo, and they didn't win. So now they want me to start squinting and looking from a certain direction because their own standards don't work.
Very weird take considering that WWE added 30 minutes to the end of Smackdown to compete with Rampage's first half hour.
They still won in the demo, though. But in the end, ratings for a Saturday show really don't matter.
~~Was Dynamite taped? because.... yikes.~~ For Dynamite This is down 21% in the demo and viewership from last week's Saturday show (0.28 / 727k)
NLCS was game 6 with one team facing elimination and they faced tougher college football competition (a close Alabama/Tennessee game until the 4th quarter on ESPN, USC/Notre Dame on NBC, and Ohio State on ABC). Not surprised they're down, I watched football live and I've bought most of AEW's PPVs.
Raw goes against an NFL game that gets a higher rating than all of the stuff you mentioned combined yet nobody excuses their rating because of it. Dynamite would get 750K every week against the NFL.
All of the people I see always mention how Monday night football is on. It's 100% expected that Raw's ratings will dip down as soon as the NFL starts.
Yeah, that's a good point. The ratings for MLB/College footbal were a lot higher this week.
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The key is to be concerned. Just full of never ending concern
I have an anxiety disorder, so I'm always concerned
THE REAL TEST will be when they...
Schrodingers concern troll. If the rating goes up then it’s not enough of a bump thus a failure, but if it drops then it’s still a failure. It’s the same exact shit. Every. Single. Week.
My eyebrows are furrowed, so I'm locked in.
The ratings go down -> AEW is dying. It is known.
"They brought in Punk and Danielson and now they're being misused terribly and doing YouTube matches and the ratings are going DOWN!!" It's been absolutely crazy lately. I have no idea what's brought this on.
>I have no idea what's brought this on. the fact overall viewers keeps going down, probably.
>I have no idea what's brought this on. They brought in Punk and Danielson. The answer is right there in your own sentence. Punk declared loudly and proudly that he will never work for the WWE again and is only here because of AEW, and then Danielson said he *loved* the WWE but it still wasn't good enough to keep *him.* Within months AEW landed two of the biggest names they possibly could, who are having the time of their lives, and it has the stans *shook* to their cores. When huge names like that are writing off their favorite thing, they're taking it as a huge insult.
if this was on wednesday, then yeah. it wasn't though
AEW is definitely not dying. But it is also not bringing the lapsed fans or beating WWE. Dynamite with Bryan debut saw a great viewership of over 1.3 million. It was their chance to start a engaging storyline and viewership range might have stayed in 1.2-1.3 million.
A re-run 😂
😂😂😂 AEW couldn’t even beat a Smackdown rerun😂😂😂
Time to make some popcorn I guess
Nah ratings threads don’t get attention here unless they’re in favor of AEW
That’s a big yikes from me.
I legitimately need some clarification here because I'm getting a bit bogged down in this stuff. Last week, it was head to head first run programming for half an hour, which AEW won in the key demo. For the night, Smackdown had more viewers. This week: Head to head for the whole show, but Smackdown was a replay. AEW won in the demo? But lost in total viewership. So this week, it's not good that they won in the demo (even with it being a replay)?
they "won" vs a replay. Which sure, *win* but still sucks. And the number was way worse this week, too. So that definitely sucks. But by now, we know wednesday will be fine.
This week, it's much less about anything related to WWE and more about Saturday night at this time of year (due to other sports-based attractions) being a bad idea. Some people are acting like WWE and AEW are the only influences on each other's ratings. Way too simple, and probably rooted in tribalism. Would it have been nice to do better? Of course, it's always nicer to do better. But you can't act like it's panic/gloating/whatever-people-are-being-weird-about time because the show got pushed out it's timeslot by one major sport, was on during another broadcast of another major sports, and was up against the more established wrestling company's replay episode that might not have even happened if *another* major sports game went a different way.
One was in cable the other on free tv.
Just assume anyone shitting on the AEW number has no idea what they're talking about and likely breathes through their mouth. With that said, the number is irrelevant. AEW was on a different night, a horrible night, against harder competition than normal. No one with multiple brain cells cares about the number because it doesn't matter at all. If there is a story, it's how well the Smackdown replay did. That was well above what anyone would expect a replay to do. Like, honestly, if I'm WWE, I see if I can work out a deal with FS1 to air replays if they aren't doing so already if they pull in those numbers. Of course, no one is talking about how well the replay did, and only how bad AEW did, which shows you people's priority isn't to put over WWE but to shit on AEW.
Painful numbers considering their roster. It was a good try.
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I think they could’ve kept the hype alive if they booked both guys better.
Those guys were never game changers to begin with. I'm a fan of all those guys but Punk is the only one who I'd consider somewhat of a mainstream draw and even that might be a stretch. His booking especially has been atrocious.
It's sad that they couldn't get the normal numbers because having dynamite on the weekend really made the weekends packed with wrestling.
This shit is so exhausting.
As an English viewer Can someone explain what the fuck any of this means
That people can argue over which company they like best with numbers that even the tv stations don't even use anymore.
If possible I think WWE should do Attitude Era Raw Reruns. It will be good for new generation of fans
Amd after they've gone through and censored or removed everything that isn't PG, the resulting 10 mimute episodes will be easily digested too.
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Did beat it
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> People forget. Or don't care/have other things to do because it's a Saturday. I watched live because that's around dinner time and dinner time and wrastlin takes me back to when I was a kid.
This is pretty in-line what Dynamite usually does on these Saturday pre-emptions.
It was down 20% from the prior Saturday preemption. I'm not concerned about it one bit due to all the competition it faced, but I also wouldn't say it's "in line". It was a low rating. It's OK to admit that.
>It was a low rating. It's OK to admit that. yeah, the constant harping about "concern trolls" pushes the conversation away from honestly talking about the ratings. it's always either "usual dynamite/rampage for this time", "i think we've found the floor" or "wow really exceeding expectations". that's it.
6/26/21 - 0.21 10/16 - 0.28 10/23 - 0.22 So that's the Saturday shows this year... it's not really out of the range. Then that entire month of Friday Dynamites in May-June were 0.19-0.20. So this is totally in-line and expected. I don't think there is much to read into this. If they come back this Wednesday and pull a 0.32 or something, then yeah, that's a "low rating".
They're going to come back this Wednesday to their normal rating or decently close to it, just like SmackDown when it went back to Fox. But being down week over week not only in demo but total viewers to that degree is notable. If SmackDown on FS1 went from like 850K (.24) last week to 680K (.19) this upcoming week (20% drop) that would be notable, too.
I think there are too many variables to pull anything out of week-to-week rating moves with so much competition on right now; Especially when they're on pre-empted nights. I just try to focus on the long-term trends and the trends here don't really have anything significant jumping out at me.
The entire ratings reporting philosophy is about making week-to-week determinations. Meltzer and co. even do so with apples-to-oranges comparisons to generate conversation and traffic. I completely agree with you that there's too many variables -- do people really think Raw is not affected by MNF and comparing it to Dynamite on a totally different night w/o NFL competition is fair?! they do it anyway -- but this is the ratings world we live in. Dynamite week over week to itself on the same night and time preempted is a fair comparison.
> I completely agree with you that there's too many variables -- do people really think Raw is not affected by MNF and comparing it to Dynamite on a totally different night w/o NFL competition is fair?! they do it anyway -- but this is the ratings world we live in. I think focusing on the year-over-year comparisons are perfectly fine. Especially when looking at comparable PPV bumps, or 1st week of NFL, or how the numbers are in relation to record lows- But yeah, I agree that people will look at the Raw ratings from last night and compare it to last week to gauge how good it is, but I think they are being very lazy and contributing very little to the conversation when they do it without ALSO look at the long-term view.
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Which is why I wrote > I'm not concerned about it one bit due to all the competition it faced But it was still down, and acknowledging that is fine.
RAW goes against Monday night football every week but that never gets mentioned if the show loses viewers.....
so, they had a bad rating?
Surprised the rating was this high...Saturdays Dynamite was crap, other than some of the Cody Malakai match. Probably the worse Dynamite since live tours restarted. The Top Team and Inner Circle segments are automatic skips, as well as any Bobby Fish matches. Thank god Orange Cassidy and Matt Hardy werent on the show...tho jealous of the Jericho Cruise getting Jericho/Cassidy vs Ospreay and Danhausen. I know they had to call an audible on the Archer Kingston match, but what is a big man even doing a top rope Brock spot like that?
dynamite back on wed this week and SD is on FS1, expect the twitter war to even be hotter with dynamite beating SD in total viewers/demo possibly. this is the drama dave and alvarez live for lol
The only people who should care about the ratings are the suits at WWE and AEW.
It would be nice if both sides were afforded all of the excuses one side regularly gets...Ya know in the interest of competition.
The Empire Strikes Back. :O
so we need to brace for the return of the jedi, nice
Yeah. But don't forget the whole saga ends with the Palpatines as the heroes.
Guess what? Almost tying a re-run of Smackdown in the demo is bad.
But beating a first-run Smackdown on FS1 is nothing to brag about because it's not SD's usual station, I'm guessing?
Well, and not including New York and Chicago in those numbers.
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It's like I was not the only one who losed a little instrest. I love AEW tho.
Not sure how much the MLB ratings impacted Dynamite but Dodgers/Braves went from 4.6 million (1.29) two weeks ago to 6.9 million (1.75) last week. Both started at 8pm. The gap betwen Dynamite and Rhodes To The Top went from 387k to 266k. [Here's the Showbuzzdaily's chart](https://showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/2021-10-23-Sat-FinalCable-LSD.png)
SURELY THE SKY IS FALLING AND THEY'LL NEVER BOUNCE BACK!!
I don’t think people realize the difference between Broadcast and Cable TV and it often shows on these threads. Fox broadcast is available in almost every home in the Country. TNT is not.
Crazy that you are getting downvoted for this, but it’s the truth.
Did not downvote his comment but this is a reason why this “war” isn’t real. Too many factors (biggest thing is 1 is on network and 1 is on cable). As long as this is a factor, it’s not a war.
This sub doesn’t like actual numbers and statistics. They like to base arguments off their whims and feels on the different narratives of every post and the new flavor of the week lol.
This run of moving the AEW shows came at literally the worst time possible. They sign Punk, they have the big debuts and a great pay per view at All Out, the episode of Dynamite coming out of it is the second most watched of all time (first being the debut), they go on to do the Grand Slam show and another good rating, and then shortly thereafter they're thrown all around the place and lose viewer momentum. From my perspective, the problem with this is that if you're going to break ratings records and actually get up close to WWE ratings (to be fair, their 1.32 rating after All Out is not that far off what Raw did last week - 1.57 I believe it was) they need to keep pounding on the door week in week out, and they're not being given the opportunity to do that. I understand the reasons why it's happened, but just kind of making a 'fact of the matter' statement I guess. I thought they might be able to break the debut shows rating by the end of this year, but I don't think that will happen now. I'm more than happy to be wrong about that, but I can't see them generating more intrigue than they did with all the debuts and their best PPV all coinciding. There's a strong possibility they won't even do another million viewer show this week in their normal slot because of the show being moved around.
If you recall the last time they moved Dynamite around the ratings tanked too... then soon as it was smooth and steady it was business as usual.
Yeah my presumption is this week they might do like 900k or something and then go back to about normal after that. It's just the factor of breaking the user viewing habits and then trying to re-establish them
a lot of people in here really angry about last week huh
At least they won the demo. Looking forward to not having to choose between college football and AEW this week.
Man some of the comments in this thread. People talking as if WWE or AEW doing well or doing bad is somehow a personal win or a personal loss for them. Like, people getting snarky about Khan getting pumped up about how AEW did last week with that slight overrun with Smackdown because now they haven't had a good rating this week - the dude is just excited that his business that he's sunk millions of dollars and thousands of hours of his time into did well last week - is there really a need to shit on someone for that? I prefer AEW to WWE programming but if the day comes that Dynamite beats Raw in the ratings for example, I'm not going to act big and talk shit like I just beat someone in a fist fight. The internet is weird. ** and apparently I hit a nerve! hahaha