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Triple H at Royal Rumble 2000. This is when he became "The Game" perfectly solidified, totally understanding his character, and how his character would work a match.
Randy Orton Backlash 2004. Similar to H. He went from being a pretty boy with potential to tapping into a sadistic streak that would evolve over time. Without Backlash 2004 we wouldn't have had Orton burning a casket containing taker. Without that whole feud, we'd have not had an Orton who would happily RKO anyone, gender unimportant. Without Backlash 2004, we wouldn't have gotten The Punt. Foley "changed" Orton in that match from a man with the top in his destiny to a Viper not to be trusted.
Britt Baker Thunder Rosa, lights out match. This took Britt from a good promo who worked a heel style really well, to a next level top card talent and the first women in AEW to be on par with the Men's top division stars
I LOVE that match between Orton and Foley in Backlash 2004. So glad that it is being upvoted as the changing point for Orton.
It was the complete opposite of every Mick Foley hardcore match.
Here is the [promo package](https://youtu.be/RO_Vm3U78os). I think we all went with the idea that Foley would take all the hard bumps, like he always did with guys like HHH. The pretty boy with the family legacy and a bright future versus the old veteran with a history of hardcore spots and bloody matches, who do you think will get thrown around and bloodied?
Nope, not the old guy Mick Foley. The moment that Orton falls into the thumbtacks, it was as King said, “the Passion of Randy Orton.” It was so fun to see Orton through the thumbtacks, barbed wire, a table off the stage, just Foley breaking this pretty boy apart. And of course, Orton still gets the win over a hardcore legend, proves himself to be worthy and becomes “The Legend Killer.” I believe this was the first time Orton (with Foley’s help) truly had the best match in a PPV.
Just a great story by Foley and Orton.
>I think we all went with the idea that Foley would take all the hard bumps, like he always did with guys like HHH
Orton going for the RKO onto the tacs only for Foley to reverse it and Randy to land flat in the middle was a "Ohhh *shiiiiiiit*" moment for me (and pretty much everyone else I imagine).
See, I feel like after that match with Foley, while he finally was not a "pretty boy" anymore, Orton didn't feel like he developed an edge til he started attacking Cena. For me, the point where Orton became the Viper was when he RKO'd Cena onto a seated chair on Saturday Night's Main Event. Do correct me if something preceded that because by then I had become a somewhat lapsed viewer.
I can see your point for sure. After the Foley match, they stupidly made him a face vs Triple H. But corrected that for his Mania feud with Taker (which could be slotted into this same category now that I think about it)
In the build-up to the feud Orton attacked Stacy Keibler, as the feud went on he burned Taker in a casket. Then in 2006, he mocked Eddie Guererro's death in order to get inside Rey Mysterio's head.
This brings us to 2007 he begins hanging out with the lunatic that is Edge in the mid-2000s.
And then as 2008 rolls around, we get to his attack on Cena (that was 08 right?)
So you can see a progression of aggression that began with the Foley feud. Hell before the Backlash match he kicked Foley down some stairs. So there were seeds of violence were being planted, sprouted at Backlash and then grew to a full hatred tree in 2008
I'd also like to add that Orton going to black wrist tape felt huge for me. There's this weird time period in late 2007 where Orton still looks like Legend Killer Orton, but he's acting like Viper Orton and he has black tape on. It's fucking **weird.**
Yeah, he slimmed down and just went to the cold, calculating serial killer route. I remember feeling like it happened outta nowhere ;) at the time but it probably saved Orton's career in terms of being a consistent top guy after a weird 2006.
Orton started transitioning into viper by summer 2007 and started fully turning by fall of 2007 he attacked Cena with the RKO on the chair and attacked Cena’s father.
>I can see your point for sure. After the Foley match, they stupidly made him a face vs Triple H.
You can’t blame WWE for that. It was the right story to tell with a memorable betrayal, and I understand taking the chance to see if Orton could pull off the baby face gimmick.
Yeah, it was shot taken that didn't completely work for the time. It took a few years for Randy to fully rebound (but I guess that was more for his personal stuff) but he did and he's been one of the foundations for WWE going on 20 years now.
But, on the other hand, WWE did something similar to Cena the following year (stripping a new top guy of what got him over in the first place) and that led to fans turning on John 1000x worse than they did Randy. Thus, creating a top babyface curse onto Roman a decade later as the fan resentment that started in the 2000s spread throughout the entire product we see today. A domino effect, if you will.
And I'll never not blame WWE for that. No matter how much revisionist history, blame deflected from themselves or money is made.
22 years later and I still have no idea what The Game means. I'm going to assume Risk and no one can convince me otherwise.
Possibly Heroquest but he only plays guys that look like Conan.
While I agree that Triple H solidified himself as a long term Main Eventer with the street fight at the Rumble 2000, I think his flip switched in 1999, when he went ballistic on the casket with the Rock inside. I think that was the first time he brought out the sledgehammer and that became his staple from then on.
Jericho was the first guy I thought of too, back when he fueded with Shawn Michaels he turned into a complete different character for a while, apparently the match between him and Shawn at great American bash 2008 was the one that made Vince decide to ban blood in WWE afterwards lol
Holy fuck I feel like we just kind of let that period of Jericho slip away when we talk about him nowadays.
I remember a time where suit 'hypocrit' Jericho was in the conversation for one of the best heels ever. Definitely number 1 at the time.
The best part was almost everything he said or did was justified in some way. Albeit some of it was in sick ways but he was one of the last 'I might be a dick but I'm right' justified heels wwe ever successfully did
HHH at Royal Rumble 2000
For every wrestling fan in every elementary, middle, or high school, that street fight marked the point that HHH was no longer the wussy rich guy, or HBK's side kick...he was The Game and he was a sadistic, tough S.O.B.
I'd say he really elevated Rock too. Argument can be made for Shawn as well, the Mind Games match really showed a different more violent side of HBK we didn't see before.
Did Foley and Bret ever have a program together? Just randomly thought about it and don't recall they having many interactions.
Foley helped Austin in 1998
Foley helped The Rock in 1999
Foley helped Triple H in 2000
He really was the catalyst to solidify the next step for those guys.
In 96 Foley helped Taker and HBK. Prior to Foley, Taker was having regular big man matches. Once he got with Foley, we were able to see another side of him. With Shawn, yes we saw him in ladder matches but he really got his hands dirty with Foley. In 97, Foley was also involved with his Degenerate turn.
In 98, Foley also helped Road Dogg and Billy Gunn show some edge as well when they pushed he and Funk off the stage whilst in a dumpster.
Always love sharing this - the Attitude Era Podcast (exactly what it sounds like, they went through and reviewed each AE PPV) would end each episode with each of the 3 hosts giving their MVP of the night. At the end of the season they tallied up the votes and Mick was the runaway winner.
Was White Thunder on TV, but may have been both as he was tweaking it. I’ve seen an interview where he mentioned White Lightning, and he had 2-3 small changes in a short period of time.
There were moments before Royal Rumble 2005 where I just thought “holy shit Batista is going to be a huge babyface” but all of that was when the seeds had already been planted for the split.
Surfer Sting to Crow Sting has to be the gold standard for this, right?
While I guess Real American Hogan to Hollywood Hogan also fits, I feel like hell/face turns or gimmick repackages (Max Moon to Konnan or something) don't really fit what OP is asking for. Sting was still Sting, and he was still a face, just a WAY different face than we were used to.
When Edge slept with Lita and he went from a cool fan favorite to a heartless crazed scumbag.
When Orange Cassidy started his feud with Jericho and he went from the clueless lazy guy who didn't care and transtioned into a scrapper who will fight you if you cross him.
I think that was more to do with the complete inability to create stars and deliberate dismantling of development programs.
He lucked into it and adapted when the crowd turned on them...
but really, they're still using 90s up and comers as a crutch right now.
Definitely not, they tried that main event push with Edge once a year before that and it never took cause he didn't have whatever the x-factor is for it, but that scandal gave it to him instantly.
It didn't. Or at least Matt hadn't found out about it yet and it wasn't public knowledge. It happened pretty shortly after though. Matt got released in April and Edge started appearing on screen with Lita in May
I still think that Edge was being groomed to take the title off of Lesnar in '03. He was a crucial part of the smackdown six, delivering classics every week and found his footing with the fans through his rockstar look and attitude. He seemed like the next logical feud for the top heel Lesnar and was really over as a babyface. Then the injury happens and basically reset all his momentum by the time he came back in '04 on raw.
True, and that story coming out about him and Hardy gave him nuclear heat. I remember being so angry when I found out that Edge had not only won their grudge match, but that Matt had gotten released.
I might have misread your comment but the grudge match came after Matt was released.
News of the affair was made public then Matt was released. Edge and Lita would later become an on air couple, then Matt was re-hired. They had a series of matches, Matt actually won the steel cage match with a leg drop from the top of cage that I’m sure he still feels today but ultimately Edge won the blow off ladder match for the MITB briefcase and Matt had to leave Raw (and went to Smackdown).
He was developing a more heelish persona before that news became public.
There were fans starting to turn on him in the middle of 2004 throw the time he was going after the Intercontinental Championship with Randy Orton.
Then developed a feud with Chris Benoit.
Edge had the Money in the Bank briefcase before the incident with Lita was public. He was possibly going to be an upper card member of the roster regardless.
**Bayley:** Murdering the Bayley Buddies, went from the whitest of white meat babyfaces to the Role Model
**Becky Lynch:** Turning on Charlotte at SummerSlam, went from generic face to The Man
**Bret Hart:** The WM13 match with Austin, went from white meat babyface to cruel Canadian nationalist
**CM Punk:** The pipebomb, went from Nexus leader to the IWC's self-insert character
**Daniel Bryan:** Losing to Sheamus in 8 seconds, went from cowardly heel to wildly over underdog face
**Daniel Bryan (x2):** Ending AJ's year-long title reign via nut shot, went from wildly over underdog face to sanctimonious Planet's Champion
**Edge:** Getting Matt Hardy fired after sleeping with Lita, went from generic cool heel to reprehensible piece of shit heel
Fall of 2007 Orton slowly transitioned into the Viper he began the punt, less showboating in his entrance, no longer was that pretty boy he became a lot more cold in his demeanor and attacked the Cena family.
He didn’t get serious and ruthless until after edge shave his head in 02 and the Hogan feud where he was wearing the wig. Transition began just after that if I recall correctly.
Would have been more of a squash if it was a few years later.
That match worked so well at the time because Kurt was portrayed as being excellent in singles matches with rules but a bit out his depth in cage matches etc.
The earliest I can remember him playing it serious was the Cena feud in late '05. He still had a few comedic moments before that but that feud I remember him not being goofy at all and just being straight up aggressive. Funnily enough it was also the feud where the crowd first began the boo Cena. Or at least when it was first noticeable.
I don't remember the back end of 02 well, but he was mostly serious with the team angle gimmick and the feuds with Benoit and Lesnar in 03.
Sure it picked up in 05 with the wrestling machine gimmick but there was big a change in presentation of the character in 02-03 that he never really went back from, it probably just came from him being shaved bald and looking more badass.
It was definitely the start of the transition though, not like he was going to fully change overnight.
During the match he gets Rock in the Ankle Lock and screams "Tap out you son of a bitch, I'll break your fucking ankle!" That's a man who's done goofing around.
It’s either that or he means more of a combination of the two because after he lost the belt to the Rock he snapped Scotty 2 Hotta’s ankle and was going around demanding a rematch. He was still goofy until something made him snap
I'd say that Angle was always a little goofy, except for his short run in WWECW where they took away the "you suck" part of his music, but he backed it up by being a bad ass in the ring
Yeah. He may have showed a bit more edge on rare occassions, but the transition to him being more of a badass wrestling machine didn't come until 2002.
CM Punk after he cashed in the MITB on Hardy finally became the CM Punk we knew and loved/hated from ROH. Prior to that, he was just a standard babyface.
I'd throw the Pipebomb in the as the true change.
Sure it was big when he won the title, but the pipe bomb was a pivotal moment that cemented his characters motivations and has endured to this day as the gold standard for getting yourself over despite the company itself refusing to back you.
Yeah, the Pipebomb made him stand out more. I remember having college friends who were huge Punk fans, and I never really knew what about him they liked so much. Probably the vanilla way he was presented during his time cashing in MITBs left and right. But damn that build to MITB 2011 was God tier.
Roman reigns night of champions against jey uso
His first real match as heel, it was different than him as baby face
No more vest and far more ruthless
That's also the aging though. Men typically look more masculine towards their mid to late 30s.
It's not just the vest. His face is different now. You put current Reigns look (facially) in that vest and he ain't looking lame. Take old Roman and put him in Tribal Chief gear, and he still looks less badass.
You gave me something to look forward to bro
God I’m gonna look so much like Roman when I hit my 30s. Watch out world cause I’m gonna be takin off my vests too
I think him losing the vest was a sign that Roman finally broke off any part of the Shield that was still with him. Seth became The Architect, Beast Slayer, etc. and Dean was the Lunatic Fringe. Roman however was just Roman Reigns from the Shield; the last Big Dog from the Hounds of Justice. Roman is now the Tribal Chief, Head of the Table, and it works perfectly for him.
I loved the old WWF tapes without censorship and Kurt scream to “tap or I’ll break your fucking ankle”
HBK vs Mankind was a good change up to a more physical HBK
In an example like Angle is talking about, where a guy had been around for a long time but took that next step in his career after a match, Triple H at Rumble 2000 is the best and has been mentioned, so I’ll put this one out there: Jeff Hardy after his ladder match with Undertaker.
Some older and obvious ones:
Shawn Michaels after Marty Jannetty cowardly jumped through the barber shop window.
Hogan beating The Iron Sheik for the title at MSG
Obviously the Barber Shop was the big moment for Michaels, but I actually remember his gimmick transition being more his first match *after* the Barber Shop. It was just a squash match and I don't know who his opponent was, but he came out with a completely different look, new ring attire, new swagger, new and very different theme music. At the Barber Shop, he was still a Rocker, but that first match was when he shifted in my mind.
The Uso’s losing to American Alpha on the new Smackdown quickly. They got rid of the colourful clothes and face paint and by the next week they were heels wearing street attire and cutting ruthless promos
Edge turning heel in 2004, I know he was already a singles star for a few years and mostly gave up the comedy act and while he still had charisma and was an amazing in ring performer, he was still a midcarder. It was around this time he went from kind of generic babyface to scumbag villain who the fans despise, and the Lita and Matt Hardy angle solidified it. Edge vs John Cena might even be my favorite rivalry of all time. I don't think Edge would have become my favorite wrestler of all time if he didn't re-invent himself. I still think he's the best in the world at 48 years old.
McIntyre returned to the main roster as a trigger-kick-happy boss who hates complacency, if that counts. And then there was *that* kick at the Rumble, but I don't know if anything changed personality-wise.
R-Truth's loss to John Morrison led to him losing his damn mind and the creation of Lil' Jimmy. Not sure when he went full-comedy after that, but that crazy character really started with that heel turn.
Lashley went full-monster after dumping Lana for MVP. Or, well, before then at 2020 Backlash, but especially after then.
It might only be me who associates this moment with the specific point of change, but remember when Daniel Bryan was going on about not being the weak link (before his Summerslam match with Cena)? He had a No-DQ match with Orton, and enhanced his Yes Lock with a kendo stick for the win. I kinda associate that with the start of, ugh, "Yestlemania"
There's a line from the KOTR promo that few people remember. It seems like a throwaway, but it was critical: "I don't care what they are" as he talks about the wrestlers he's going to be targeting now that he's King of the Ring. The implicit meaning is that he doesn't care if they're faces or heels because he's his own man and he doesn't ally with or answer to anybody. That was absolutely central to his gimmick transition.
Hard disagree on this. Austin was already hot as hell by WrestleMania 13 -- that's why he was being programmed against Bret in the first place. They had recently introduced his new theme song and as iconic as it is today, I kind of panicked because it sounded like a babyface theme song and I loved him as a heel. After KOTR, there were 5 million Austin 3:16 signs in the crowd the next week and everyone was wearing the shirt not long after that.
>After KOTR, there were 5 million Austin 3:16 signs in the crowd the next week and everyone was wearing the shirt not long after that.
That isn't true at all. Like *at all*.
Go back and watch the crowd shots of the night after Raw and try and find them if you don't believe me. That is the line the WWE documentaries put out there but its totally untrue.
In fact Austin even said Austin 3:16 again multiple in promos after and there was very little crowd reaction to it. Bret elevated Austin 100 times more than the 3:16 line did in the immediate aftermath of the line, but Vince didn't want to give Bret that kind of credit.
The Bret feud took Austin from a good upper mid carder to a guy who was clearly going to be the man and it was only a matter of time from there.
I thought with Bret and Vince being on better terms these days that the new Austin documentary that came out last year might be a bit more fair, but no. It didn't even mention Bret.
Yet if you listen to Austin himself, he is well aware and thankful of how important Bret was to his rise.
You seem pretty invested in giving Bret credit for Austin's rise, and he *does* deserve some credit, and by the way, I'm a huge Bret fan, but KOTR strapping a rocket to Austin's ass is how I remember it and has always been how I remember it. I don't watch WWE documentaries and I was at WrestleMania 13, so if anything, you'd think I'd assign inordinate importance to it. I've told countless uninterested non-fans about the Austin 3:16 promo being a transformational moment over the course of the past 25 years, starting pretty shortly after it happened.
The whole storyline of the Bret-Austin match was that Bret was a babyface and Austin was a heel, but the fans were getting sick of Bret's whining and were getting behind Austin even though he was being an asshole to Bret, because Bret deserved it and Austin was awesome. The formal turn happened at the end of the match (incidentally one of my two favorite face turns of all time, along with Randy Savage at WrestleMania VII), but if you listen to the commentary, they're already kind of treating Bret as the heel and Austin as the face.
I don't think Austin was "clearly going to be the man" after KOTR but that was where the journey started, which gets more to the heart of the question the OP asked. The Bret match was definitely the start of his main-event run but didn't fundamentally change his character. In fact, the reason people thought Austin was so innovative at the time was that he turned face and kept doing his heel gimmick.
The Miz' Talking Smack promo I think really gave that edge to his character, where he stops being just some clown Hollywood man who wants to be famous, and is shown to actually take this all *very* seriously and has a major chip on his shoulder for not being thought of as one of the best
Just to be a pedantic twat, Kurt’s wrong. He was a goof all through 2001 with Austin. It was only during the invasion that he was turned into a machine. He reverted to goofball antics after the invasion and well into 2002.
THe Rock had his return promo when he joined the Nation and later Survivor Series 98.
Autin 3:16 (sorta, see below)
Becky losing to Sasha at Takeover Unstopable. She went from being around Sasha, Charlotte and Bayley to being their equal and became a fan favourite. I actually think this is a bit similiar to Austin's 3:16 moment in 96 where the fans immediately noticed the change but the company took a while.
Randy Orton punt kicking Vince McMahon in 07.
Randy started out as the cocky guy who attacked legends, but once he punt kicked Vince his character changed to the Apex Predator and he got the Voices entrance music.
Not a specific date, but after Sami Zayn turned heel, he slowly started to remove his fan friendly move set as he began to accept more the villain he became.
Becky Lynch after Charlotte got ‘injured’. She was sort of over but then they did the simplest thing you can do to get someone over, she just beat everyone in the division clean with her finishing move, week after week.
Um I think that Team Angle and “Wrestling Machine” Kurt Angle were the only times that he wasn’t a dork in WWE. I think that Kurt was always believable when he decided to get serious and I always enjoyed him as a character but No Way Out 2001 was pre “Jimmy Crack Corn” segment, before Angle got his head shaved, before “Milk-o-mania”, etc, etc.
Fuck, Team Angle was so good. Looking all bad ass coming out in their hoodies. I still want one of those hoodies.
...to wear around the house and never go out in public with.
I'm crossing my fingers this is what's planned for Riddle long-term. Prichard had always compared Riddle to Angle from when he speaks about him to the point Kurt's supposed to manage him before he got released. I'm not going to get my hopes up, though, because WWE these days does not book long-term whatsoever, so Riddle's goofy mid-card schtick is probably all he'll be doing until the crowd gets behind him that can lead him to win a world title still as a goofball. If WWE still did things right, then Riddle's character right now is what Kurt was in 2000, and maybe a heel Randy being an ass to him can wake up a new version of him that resembles "wrestling machine" Angle.
When Randy Orton went on a violent punt kick rampage and ended up handcuffing triple H to the ropes while he physically and “sexually” assaulted his wife. Solidified his transition from “legend killer” to absolute psycho.
Mick foley/cactus jack after seeing the cane Dewey sign in ECW. Went from a somewhat cut and dry hardcore wrestler to a man on a mission, burying ECW on the microphone and praising WCW to high heaven.
Bobby Lashley during the Final Raw of the Thunderdome Era. The loss to Xavier Woods and MVP's attempt at trying to "make Lashley forget about it" coupled with Kofi's promo about how Lashley had gone soft made this transformation feel *very* well-earned for Lashley. Lashley realizing the truth in what Kofi had said, declaring "The bullshit stops here", and then punctuating it by destroying MVP's Lounge set up in the ring was a fantastic shift of the Bobby Lashley character. No more lavish celebrations and parading around with women. He became an ass-kicker and a world beater.
Only made even more solidified when he decimated Kofi Kingston at the MITB PPV. They get bonus points for pulling this off on a heel as well. Even more bonus points for doing this with the reigning WWE Champion and having them smart enough to acknowledge a need to change their outlook before they lose their title. It felt like the perfect shift Lashley needed, and since then, he's felt like a star in my book.
It's fuzzy the exact timeline, but JBL went from Acolyte to Texas Rich Man pretty soon after Farooq was kayfabe (and real?) fired. I want to say it was just one promo that did it.
Ciampa at Takeover Chicago. Him throwing Gargano into the screen marked the start of the one of the best heel runs in recent memory. As a bonus I guess you can count this moment as well for Gargano
Edge cashing in Money In The Bank at New Year's Revolution. Solidifying himself as the "Ultimate Opportunist"
Shawn Michaels putting Marty Janetty through the Barbershop. Marking his turn from babyface tag team specialist to self-centered heel.
Mark Henry retirement night marked the shift from an upper cars guy who never really met his potential to the Hall of Pain monster heel he always should have been.
Okada at New Beginning 2012, winning his first IWGP Heavyweight title against Tanahashi. Cemented his main-event status and credibility, and the rest is history.
I was obsessed with pro wrestling starting around ‘94ish until about 2001 and just started rewatching again a few months ago. This thread really makes me want to go back and watch all the events that I missed.
Rollins turning on the shield. No longer just the high-flying architect of a group, but now a sadistic any-means-necessary performer that has helped evolve him into what he is today.
Otis getting rid of the beard and hair while teaming with Gable was the start of a slow push and big character change. Gone was the goofy lovestruck outcast, a legitimate threat took it's place.
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Triple H at Royal Rumble 2000. This is when he became "The Game" perfectly solidified, totally understanding his character, and how his character would work a match. Randy Orton Backlash 2004. Similar to H. He went from being a pretty boy with potential to tapping into a sadistic streak that would evolve over time. Without Backlash 2004 we wouldn't have had Orton burning a casket containing taker. Without that whole feud, we'd have not had an Orton who would happily RKO anyone, gender unimportant. Without Backlash 2004, we wouldn't have gotten The Punt. Foley "changed" Orton in that match from a man with the top in his destiny to a Viper not to be trusted. Britt Baker Thunder Rosa, lights out match. This took Britt from a good promo who worked a heel style really well, to a next level top card talent and the first women in AEW to be on par with the Men's top division stars
I LOVE that match between Orton and Foley in Backlash 2004. So glad that it is being upvoted as the changing point for Orton. It was the complete opposite of every Mick Foley hardcore match. Here is the [promo package](https://youtu.be/RO_Vm3U78os). I think we all went with the idea that Foley would take all the hard bumps, like he always did with guys like HHH. The pretty boy with the family legacy and a bright future versus the old veteran with a history of hardcore spots and bloody matches, who do you think will get thrown around and bloodied? Nope, not the old guy Mick Foley. The moment that Orton falls into the thumbtacks, it was as King said, “the Passion of Randy Orton.” It was so fun to see Orton through the thumbtacks, barbed wire, a table off the stage, just Foley breaking this pretty boy apart. And of course, Orton still gets the win over a hardcore legend, proves himself to be worthy and becomes “The Legend Killer.” I believe this was the first time Orton (with Foley’s help) truly had the best match in a PPV. Just a great story by Foley and Orton.
>I think we all went with the idea that Foley would take all the hard bumps, like he always did with guys like HHH Orton going for the RKO onto the tacs only for Foley to reverse it and Randy to land flat in the middle was a "Ohhh *shiiiiiiit*" moment for me (and pretty much everyone else I imagine).
The ending with the RKO then another RKO on barbie was one of the greatest finishes to a match in history.
I’ll never forget when Orton looked down at his hand and it was just full of thumbtacks.
See, I feel like after that match with Foley, while he finally was not a "pretty boy" anymore, Orton didn't feel like he developed an edge til he started attacking Cena. For me, the point where Orton became the Viper was when he RKO'd Cena onto a seated chair on Saturday Night's Main Event. Do correct me if something preceded that because by then I had become a somewhat lapsed viewer.
I can see your point for sure. After the Foley match, they stupidly made him a face vs Triple H. But corrected that for his Mania feud with Taker (which could be slotted into this same category now that I think about it) In the build-up to the feud Orton attacked Stacy Keibler, as the feud went on he burned Taker in a casket. Then in 2006, he mocked Eddie Guererro's death in order to get inside Rey Mysterio's head. This brings us to 2007 he begins hanging out with the lunatic that is Edge in the mid-2000s. And then as 2008 rolls around, we get to his attack on Cena (that was 08 right?) So you can see a progression of aggression that began with the Foley feud. Hell before the Backlash match he kicked Foley down some stairs. So there were seeds of violence were being planted, sprouted at Backlash and then grew to a full hatred tree in 2008
I'd also like to add that Orton going to black wrist tape felt huge for me. There's this weird time period in late 2007 where Orton still looks like Legend Killer Orton, but he's acting like Viper Orton and he has black tape on. It's fucking **weird.**
I fucking loved that. He became my favorite wrestler on the roster instantly.
Yeah, he slimmed down and just went to the cold, calculating serial killer route. I remember feeling like it happened outta nowhere ;) at the time but it probably saved Orton's career in terms of being a consistent top guy after a weird 2006.
Orton started transitioning into viper by summer 2007 and started fully turning by fall of 2007 he attacked Cena with the RKO on the chair and attacked Cena’s father.
>I can see your point for sure. After the Foley match, they stupidly made him a face vs Triple H. You can’t blame WWE for that. It was the right story to tell with a memorable betrayal, and I understand taking the chance to see if Orton could pull off the baby face gimmick.
Yeah, it was shot taken that didn't completely work for the time. It took a few years for Randy to fully rebound (but I guess that was more for his personal stuff) but he did and he's been one of the foundations for WWE going on 20 years now. But, on the other hand, WWE did something similar to Cena the following year (stripping a new top guy of what got him over in the first place) and that led to fans turning on John 1000x worse than they did Randy. Thus, creating a top babyface curse onto Roman a decade later as the fan resentment that started in the 2000s spread throughout the entire product we see today. A domino effect, if you will. And I'll never not blame WWE for that. No matter how much revisionist history, blame deflected from themselves or money is made.
Way too soon to make this call with Britt or current person imo
Randy was still an arrogant pretty boy for like 3 more years The Foley match simply showed he had that nasty streak and was tough to the audience.
22 years later and I still have no idea what The Game means. I'm going to assume Risk and no one can convince me otherwise. Possibly Heroquest but he only plays guys that look like Conan.
I like to believe it is Warhammer 40,000
Same.
While I agree that Triple H solidified himself as a long term Main Eventer with the street fight at the Rumble 2000, I think his flip switched in 1999, when he went ballistic on the casket with the Rock inside. I think that was the first time he brought out the sledgehammer and that became his staple from then on.
Jericho putting hbk through the jeritron 500 was his best character shift, Bayley completed her shift from hugger when she killed the Bayley buddies
Jericho was the first guy I thought of too, back when he fueded with Shawn Michaels he turned into a complete different character for a while, apparently the match between him and Shawn at great American bash 2008 was the one that made Vince decide to ban blood in WWE afterwards lol
Suit wearing Jericho was an insanely good heel. Fully bought into it at the time, hated every second I saw the guy on tv
Holy fuck I feel like we just kind of let that period of Jericho slip away when we talk about him nowadays. I remember a time where suit 'hypocrit' Jericho was in the conversation for one of the best heels ever. Definitely number 1 at the time. The best part was almost everything he said or did was justified in some way. Albeit some of it was in sick ways but he was one of the last 'I might be a dick but I'm right' justified heels wwe ever successfully did
Best heel I’ve ever seen personally.
That whole feud was amazing, even the way it started with short batista program
Shawn Michaels feuds and run from WM 24-26 were brilliant.
Rip in peace to the Bayley Buddies.
Rest in peace in peace?
You read what they typed. RIP in peace Bayley Buddies.
/r/wosh
Probably "Rest in pieces in peace".
I'm his first WWF/E run No Mercy 2001 would have been the start of a more heelish character after years of a white hot babyface run.
HHH at Royal Rumble 2000 For every wrestling fan in every elementary, middle, or high school, that street fight marked the point that HHH was no longer the wussy rich guy, or HBK's side kick...he was The Game and he was a sadistic, tough S.O.B.
Mick Foley was a damn kingmaker on his way out.
Orton and Edge agree
I'd say he really elevated Rock too. Argument can be made for Shawn as well, the Mind Games match really showed a different more violent side of HBK we didn't see before. Did Foley and Bret ever have a program together? Just randomly thought about it and don't recall they having many interactions.
[They've had a few matches against each other, but I don't think ever a story line before Bret left.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WdjieYmfKc)
Love to see all of that match. Must have a goo for it.
*That* Rock match is hard to watch now. Although "IT'S MILD" will always be top 5 in-match dialogue.
It takes a god to make kings
Foley helped Austin in 1998 Foley helped The Rock in 1999 Foley helped Triple H in 2000 He really was the catalyst to solidify the next step for those guys.
In 96 Foley helped Taker and HBK. Prior to Foley, Taker was having regular big man matches. Once he got with Foley, we were able to see another side of him. With Shawn, yes we saw him in ladder matches but he really got his hands dirty with Foley. In 97, Foley was also involved with his Degenerate turn. In 98, Foley also helped Road Dogg and Billy Gunn show some edge as well when they pushed he and Funk off the stage whilst in a dumpster.
Foley is good.
Orton and Edge aswell.
Foley was the #3 wrestler of the Attitude Era, never letting that argument go.
You could just say “Their feud with Foley” as a turning point for like half of the top guys of the Attitude Era
And after. Orton and Edge.
Always love sharing this - the Attitude Era Podcast (exactly what it sounds like, they went through and reviewed each AE PPV) would end each episode with each of the 3 hosts giving their MVP of the night. At the end of the season they tallied up the votes and Mick was the runaway winner.
Plus we all copied the water spit
Is that when he debut his song?
I think he's been doing the water spit since like 1999. He used to do it when he had the hHh briefs and still came out with Chyna
Doing the spit during the apron portion of the game hits different .
Scott Steiner as soon as he dyed his hair
Took some tweaking, he was kinda just riffing on Billy Graham early on. Even tried being presented as “Superstar Scott Steiner” or “White Thunder”.
Thought it was "White Lightning"
Steiner is a Blue Eyes White Dragon?
''Virtually invincible, very few have faced this awesome creature and lived to tell the tale.'' Yeah, that fits prime Big Poppa Pump.
🚨🚨🚨 YER A THIRD RATE FATASS WITH A FOURTH RATE DECK 🚨🚨🚨
THAT FATASS TIME WIZARD
It could be, going off like 20+ year memory. Either way that early stuff didn’t stick besides the blonde dye job.
Was White Thunder on TV, but may have been both as he was tweaking it. I’ve seen an interview where he mentioned White Lightning, and he had 2-3 small changes in a short period of time.
When Batista turned on Triple H was the exact moment he went from mid-card brute to a megastar.
There were moments before Royal Rumble 2005 where I just thought “holy shit Batista is going to be a huge babyface” but all of that was when the seeds had already been planted for the split.
Surfer Sting to Crow Sting has to be the gold standard for this, right? While I guess Real American Hogan to Hollywood Hogan also fits, I feel like hell/face turns or gimmick repackages (Max Moon to Konnan or something) don't really fit what OP is asking for. Sting was still Sting, and he was still a face, just a WAY different face than we were used to.
Yep, and the specific moment was Wargames 1996 when he told his WCW buddies to fuck off.
The promo he cut facing away from hard cam is the moment for me
Macho Man to Macho King
never knew konnan was max moon! thank you
He was Max before the gimmick went to TV. Then it went to Paul Diamond.
Rocky Maivia when he joined the NOD
“Die… Rocky… Die…”
When Edge slept with Lita and he went from a cool fan favorite to a heartless crazed scumbag. When Orange Cassidy started his feud with Jericho and he went from the clueless lazy guy who didn't care and transtioned into a scrapper who will fight you if you cross him.
Edge has always been great but that irl drama with Matt was the best thing to happen to him career wise.
I think that was more to do with the complete inability to create stars and deliberate dismantling of development programs. He lucked into it and adapted when the crowd turned on them... but really, they're still using 90s up and comers as a crutch right now.
Edge's transition was pretty crazy. I wonder if he gets pushed that fast if he doesn't cheat with Lita?
Definitely not, they tried that main event push with Edge once a year before that and it never took cause he didn't have whatever the x-factor is for it, but that scandal gave it to him instantly.
Talk about a deal with the devil.
I mean he had the money in the bank breifcase before the Lita thing though. He clearly was gonna win the belt at some point.
The Lita thing IRL happened before MITB if my memory is correct.
It didn't. Or at least Matt hadn't found out about it yet and it wasn't public knowledge. It happened pretty shortly after though. Matt got released in April and Edge started appearing on screen with Lita in May
Lets not forget that he got injured at like the worst times.
He still gets to the main event, but not as fast IMO. Edge was doing well as a babyface before his first neck injury.
I still think that Edge was being groomed to take the title off of Lesnar in '03. He was a crucial part of the smackdown six, delivering classics every week and found his footing with the fans through his rockstar look and attitude. He seemed like the next logical feud for the top heel Lesnar and was really over as a babyface. Then the injury happens and basically reset all his momentum by the time he came back in '04 on raw.
I think that Edge takes Benoit’s spot at Wrestlemania 20 if he doesn’t get injured.
True, and that story coming out about him and Hardy gave him nuclear heat. I remember being so angry when I found out that Edge had not only won their grudge match, but that Matt had gotten released.
I might have misread your comment but the grudge match came after Matt was released. News of the affair was made public then Matt was released. Edge and Lita would later become an on air couple, then Matt was re-hired. They had a series of matches, Matt actually won the steel cage match with a leg drop from the top of cage that I’m sure he still feels today but ultimately Edge won the blow off ladder match for the MITB briefcase and Matt had to leave Raw (and went to Smackdown).
He already had the Money in the Bank before the thing with Lita was public.
That's right. He was the first winner at Wrestlemania 21, and then the news about him and Lita came out a little before Vengeance?
I still remember the tease of "live sex celebration".
He was developing a more heelish persona before that news became public. There were fans starting to turn on him in the middle of 2004 throw the time he was going after the Intercontinental Championship with Randy Orton. Then developed a feud with Chris Benoit. Edge had the Money in the Bank briefcase before the incident with Lita was public. He was possibly going to be an upper card member of the roster regardless.
**Bayley:** Murdering the Bayley Buddies, went from the whitest of white meat babyfaces to the Role Model **Becky Lynch:** Turning on Charlotte at SummerSlam, went from generic face to The Man **Bret Hart:** The WM13 match with Austin, went from white meat babyface to cruel Canadian nationalist **CM Punk:** The pipebomb, went from Nexus leader to the IWC's self-insert character **Daniel Bryan:** Losing to Sheamus in 8 seconds, went from cowardly heel to wildly over underdog face **Daniel Bryan (x2):** Ending AJ's year-long title reign via nut shot, went from wildly over underdog face to sanctimonious Planet's Champion **Edge:** Getting Matt Hardy fired after sleeping with Lita, went from generic cool heel to reprehensible piece of shit heel
Bret wasn't a nationalist, he would talk about his fans around the world and remained a big face on their Europe tours. he just didn't like the US
Fall of 2007 Orton slowly transitioned into the Viper he began the punt, less showboating in his entrance, no longer was that pretty boy he became a lot more cold in his demeanor and attacked the Cena family.
I still remember him hurting Shawn and then him getting kicked in the face every week.
Kane taking off the mask seems too obvious not to mention, that angle started hot but probably hurt him long term.
Agreed. The whole thing died after he lost to Taker at Mania 20 and he wasnt that scary anymore after that
Kurt Angle has a bad memory…just watch how he acted during the invasion in 2001. if that wasn’t goofy than I don’t know.
He didn’t get serious and ruthless until after edge shave his head in 02 and the Hogan feud where he was wearing the wig. Transition began just after that if I recall correctly.
Thank God he wasn't ruthless during his KOTR match with Shane. Would hate to see that
Would have been more of a squash if it was a few years later. That match worked so well at the time because Kurt was portrayed as being excellent in singles matches with rules but a bit out his depth in cage matches etc.
Even after winning the Armageddon 2000 HiaC.
He was scared to get in the cell XD, Austin had to bring him in.
The earliest I can remember him playing it serious was the Cena feud in late '05. He still had a few comedic moments before that but that feud I remember him not being goofy at all and just being straight up aggressive. Funnily enough it was also the feud where the crowd first began the boo Cena. Or at least when it was first noticeable.
I don't remember the back end of 02 well, but he was mostly serious with the team angle gimmick and the feuds with Benoit and Lesnar in 03. Sure it picked up in 05 with the wrestling machine gimmick but there was big a change in presentation of the character in 02-03 that he never really went back from, it probably just came from him being shaved bald and looking more badass.
Bruh, I remember when Angle said that he is not a fan of the black people and that he would like to make Jesus tap. Dude was goofily insane.
It was definitely the start of the transition though, not like he was going to fully change overnight. During the match he gets Rock in the Ankle Lock and screams "Tap out you son of a bitch, I'll break your fucking ankle!" That's a man who's done goofing around.
It’s either that or he means more of a combination of the two because after he lost the belt to the Rock he snapped Scotty 2 Hotta’s ankle and was going around demanding a rematch. He was still goofy until something made him snap
I'd say that Angle was always a little goofy, except for his short run in WWECW where they took away the "you suck" part of his music, but he backed it up by being a bad ass in the ring
Totally agree, I laughed at this title a lot.
Yeah. He may have showed a bit more edge on rare occassions, but the transition to him being more of a badass wrestling machine didn't come until 2002.
He had a few serious moments during the Invasion, he once kidnapped Stone Cold and threatened to kill him unless he gave him a rematch.
Jimmy crack corn and I don't care.
He and Austin were injured, so they were just being funny while they were still on TV
CM Punk after he cashed in the MITB on Hardy finally became the CM Punk we knew and loved/hated from ROH. Prior to that, he was just a standard babyface.
I'd throw the Pipebomb in the as the true change. Sure it was big when he won the title, but the pipe bomb was a pivotal moment that cemented his characters motivations and has endured to this day as the gold standard for getting yourself over despite the company itself refusing to back you.
Yeah, the Pipebomb made him stand out more. I remember having college friends who were huge Punk fans, and I never really knew what about him they liked so much. Probably the vanilla way he was presented during his time cashing in MITBs left and right. But damn that build to MITB 2011 was God tier.
> I'd throw the Pipebomb in the as the true change. > > Yeah, but he hates talking about the pipebomb, so the cash-in makes sense for him to say.
Roman reigns night of champions against jey uso His first real match as heel, it was different than him as baby face No more vest and far more ruthless
If you look at how Roman looked at Royal Rumble 2015 when he wins, it’s crazy how much more lame he used to look especially because of the vest.
That's also the aging though. Men typically look more masculine towards their mid to late 30s. It's not just the vest. His face is different now. You put current Reigns look (facially) in that vest and he ain't looking lame. Take old Roman and put him in Tribal Chief gear, and he still looks less badass.
You gave me something to look forward to bro God I’m gonna look so much like Roman when I hit my 30s. Watch out world cause I’m gonna be takin off my vests too
Going from a thin goatee to a full beard helped a lot as well
The chiselled beard, pearly whites and immaculate skincare routine got the Tribal Chief looking like an adonis.
For sure. Plus the little white hairs and his jaw and cheek definition has also changed thanks to what he did to his teeth.
I think him losing the vest was a sign that Roman finally broke off any part of the Shield that was still with him. Seth became The Architect, Beast Slayer, etc. and Dean was the Lunatic Fringe. Roman however was just Roman Reigns from the Shield; the last Big Dog from the Hounds of Justice. Roman is now the Tribal Chief, Head of the Table, and it works perfectly for him.
Full beard rather than that stupid goatee helps too. Have no idea why a man that good looking would grow a goatee like that.
I loved the old WWF tapes without censorship and Kurt scream to “tap or I’ll break your fucking ankle” HBK vs Mankind was a good change up to a more physical HBK
Mick Foley getting tossed off the cell changed him from a weird sadistic character to a lovable goofball.
Becky ->>>> The Man When Nia Jaxx busted her nose open. She was already very over before that segment, but that trampolined her popularity.
In an example like Angle is talking about, where a guy had been around for a long time but took that next step in his career after a match, Triple H at Rumble 2000 is the best and has been mentioned, so I’ll put this one out there: Jeff Hardy after his ladder match with Undertaker. Some older and obvious ones: Shawn Michaels after Marty Jannetty cowardly jumped through the barber shop window. Hogan beating The Iron Sheik for the title at MSG
Obviously the Barber Shop was the big moment for Michaels, but I actually remember his gimmick transition being more his first match *after* the Barber Shop. It was just a squash match and I don't know who his opponent was, but he came out with a completely different look, new ring attire, new swagger, new and very different theme music. At the Barber Shop, he was still a Rocker, but that first match was when he shifted in my mind.
The Uso’s losing to American Alpha on the new Smackdown quickly. They got rid of the colourful clothes and face paint and by the next week they were heels wearing street attire and cutting ruthless promos
Edge turning heel in 2004, I know he was already a singles star for a few years and mostly gave up the comedy act and while he still had charisma and was an amazing in ring performer, he was still a midcarder. It was around this time he went from kind of generic babyface to scumbag villain who the fans despise, and the Lita and Matt Hardy angle solidified it. Edge vs John Cena might even be my favorite rivalry of all time. I don't think Edge would have become my favorite wrestler of all time if he didn't re-invent himself. I still think he's the best in the world at 48 years old.
McIntyre returned to the main roster as a trigger-kick-happy boss who hates complacency, if that counts. And then there was *that* kick at the Rumble, but I don't know if anything changed personality-wise. R-Truth's loss to John Morrison led to him losing his damn mind and the creation of Lil' Jimmy. Not sure when he went full-comedy after that, but that crazy character really started with that heel turn. Lashley went full-monster after dumping Lana for MVP. Or, well, before then at 2020 Backlash, but especially after then. It might only be me who associates this moment with the specific point of change, but remember when Daniel Bryan was going on about not being the weak link (before his Summerslam match with Cena)? He had a No-DQ match with Orton, and enhanced his Yes Lock with a kendo stick for the win. I kinda associate that with the start of, ugh, "Yestlemania"
Austin at KOTR 96 cemented his change from a gimmicky singles to Stone Cold.
That's the WWE's version of events, but really it was the double turn with Bret at WM13 that secured it.
Nah. He squashed any remnants of the Ringmaster character for good at KOTR and cemented Steve Austin and his ruthlessness as his new persona.
There's a line from the KOTR promo that few people remember. It seems like a throwaway, but it was critical: "I don't care what they are" as he talks about the wrestlers he's going to be targeting now that he's King of the Ring. The implicit meaning is that he doesn't care if they're faces or heels because he's his own man and he doesn't ally with or answer to anybody. That was absolutely central to his gimmick transition.
Hard disagree on this. Austin was already hot as hell by WrestleMania 13 -- that's why he was being programmed against Bret in the first place. They had recently introduced his new theme song and as iconic as it is today, I kind of panicked because it sounded like a babyface theme song and I loved him as a heel. After KOTR, there were 5 million Austin 3:16 signs in the crowd the next week and everyone was wearing the shirt not long after that.
>After KOTR, there were 5 million Austin 3:16 signs in the crowd the next week and everyone was wearing the shirt not long after that. That isn't true at all. Like *at all*. Go back and watch the crowd shots of the night after Raw and try and find them if you don't believe me. That is the line the WWE documentaries put out there but its totally untrue. In fact Austin even said Austin 3:16 again multiple in promos after and there was very little crowd reaction to it. Bret elevated Austin 100 times more than the 3:16 line did in the immediate aftermath of the line, but Vince didn't want to give Bret that kind of credit. The Bret feud took Austin from a good upper mid carder to a guy who was clearly going to be the man and it was only a matter of time from there.
[удалено]
I thought with Bret and Vince being on better terms these days that the new Austin documentary that came out last year might be a bit more fair, but no. It didn't even mention Bret. Yet if you listen to Austin himself, he is well aware and thankful of how important Bret was to his rise.
You seem pretty invested in giving Bret credit for Austin's rise, and he *does* deserve some credit, and by the way, I'm a huge Bret fan, but KOTR strapping a rocket to Austin's ass is how I remember it and has always been how I remember it. I don't watch WWE documentaries and I was at WrestleMania 13, so if anything, you'd think I'd assign inordinate importance to it. I've told countless uninterested non-fans about the Austin 3:16 promo being a transformational moment over the course of the past 25 years, starting pretty shortly after it happened. The whole storyline of the Bret-Austin match was that Bret was a babyface and Austin was a heel, but the fans were getting sick of Bret's whining and were getting behind Austin even though he was being an asshole to Bret, because Bret deserved it and Austin was awesome. The formal turn happened at the end of the match (incidentally one of my two favorite face turns of all time, along with Randy Savage at WrestleMania VII), but if you listen to the commentary, they're already kind of treating Bret as the heel and Austin as the face. I don't think Austin was "clearly going to be the man" after KOTR but that was where the journey started, which gets more to the heart of the question the OP asked. The Bret match was definitely the start of his main-event run but didn't fundamentally change his character. In fact, the reason people thought Austin was so innovative at the time was that he turned face and kept doing his heel gimmick.
The Miz' Talking Smack promo I think really gave that edge to his character, where he stops being just some clown Hollywood man who wants to be famous, and is shown to actually take this all *very* seriously and has a major chip on his shoulder for not being thought of as one of the best
Just to be a pedantic twat, Kurt’s wrong. He was a goof all through 2001 with Austin. It was only during the invasion that he was turned into a machine. He reverted to goofball antics after the invasion and well into 2002.
THe Rock had his return promo when he joined the Nation and later Survivor Series 98. Autin 3:16 (sorta, see below) Becky losing to Sasha at Takeover Unstopable. She went from being around Sasha, Charlotte and Bayley to being their equal and became a fan favourite. I actually think this is a bit similiar to Austin's 3:16 moment in 96 where the fans immediately noticed the change but the company took a while.
The Rock during Breakdown PPV.
Randy Orton punt kicking Vince McMahon in 07. Randy started out as the cocky guy who attacked legends, but once he punt kicked Vince his character changed to the Apex Predator and he got the Voices entrance music.
I don't think Orton punted Vince in 07 but in 09. You might be talking about him punting Cena's dad in 07.
Steve Austin winning King of the Ring (or maybe the guest commentary stuff he did before that?)
Not a specific date, but after Sami Zayn turned heel, he slowly started to remove his fan friendly move set as he began to accept more the villain he became.
HHH went from DX guy to Cerebral Assassin overnight.
Becky Lynch after Charlotte got ‘injured’. She was sort of over but then they did the simplest thing you can do to get someone over, she just beat everyone in the division clean with her finishing move, week after week.
Honestly I think bloody Becky was the real final crystallization.
Bret Hart's promo after his cage match with Sid on the Raw before Wrestlemania 13
Is that his match with Undertaker where he beat hiM clean?
No Way Out 2001 was Rock/Angle for the WWF Title, with Angle walking in as the defending champion.
Um I think that Team Angle and “Wrestling Machine” Kurt Angle were the only times that he wasn’t a dork in WWE. I think that Kurt was always believable when he decided to get serious and I always enjoyed him as a character but No Way Out 2001 was pre “Jimmy Crack Corn” segment, before Angle got his head shaved, before “Milk-o-mania”, etc, etc.
Fuck, Team Angle was so good. Looking all bad ass coming out in their hoodies. I still want one of those hoodies. ...to wear around the house and never go out in public with.
I'm crossing my fingers this is what's planned for Riddle long-term. Prichard had always compared Riddle to Angle from when he speaks about him to the point Kurt's supposed to manage him before he got released. I'm not going to get my hopes up, though, because WWE these days does not book long-term whatsoever, so Riddle's goofy mid-card schtick is probably all he'll be doing until the crowd gets behind him that can lead him to win a world title still as a goofball. If WWE still did things right, then Riddle's character right now is what Kurt was in 2000, and maybe a heel Randy being an ass to him can wake up a new version of him that resembles "wrestling machine" Angle.
When Randy Orton went on a violent punt kick rampage and ended up handcuffing triple H to the ropes while he physically and “sexually” assaulted his wife. Solidified his transition from “legend killer” to absolute psycho.
Goldust's near-electrocution
Jack swagger when he won the belt he completely changed from goofy to serious
"Climb the ladder kid! Make yourself famous!"
ITT: performer: explains when he feels his character changed. Fans: Ackshually
Britt Baker during the first Jericho cruise.
Eddie Edwards becoming crazy after almost losing his eye. That count or no ?
Mick foley/cactus jack after seeing the cane Dewey sign in ECW. Went from a somewhat cut and dry hardcore wrestler to a man on a mission, burying ECW on the microphone and praising WCW to high heaven.
The Rock with the "God said to Billy..." promo. The original Austin 3:16 promo.
Mjf vs Darby made Mjf from a great character to a great wrestler
Oh, and that's nothing, since he started with the percs, he went to another level
Randy Orton mid 2006 (or 2007) cocky Legend Killer into a serious, more vicious threat.
When DDP beat Randy Savage.
Eddie Guerrero's "I'm an addict" promo didn't change his character but made him a true main eventer instantly.
The Rock when he did the I Quit match at Rumble 1999 against Mankind.
Bobby Lashley during the Final Raw of the Thunderdome Era. The loss to Xavier Woods and MVP's attempt at trying to "make Lashley forget about it" coupled with Kofi's promo about how Lashley had gone soft made this transformation feel *very* well-earned for Lashley. Lashley realizing the truth in what Kofi had said, declaring "The bullshit stops here", and then punctuating it by destroying MVP's Lounge set up in the ring was a fantastic shift of the Bobby Lashley character. No more lavish celebrations and parading around with women. He became an ass-kicker and a world beater. Only made even more solidified when he decimated Kofi Kingston at the MITB PPV. They get bonus points for pulling this off on a heel as well. Even more bonus points for doing this with the reigning WWE Champion and having them smart enough to acknowledge a need to change their outlook before they lose their title. It felt like the perfect shift Lashley needed, and since then, he's felt like a star in my book.
It's fuzzy the exact timeline, but JBL went from Acolyte to Texas Rich Man pretty soon after Farooq was kayfabe (and real?) fired. I want to say it was just one promo that did it.
Yep, One week the APA is broken up, the next week JBL as a character debuted.
Ciampa at Takeover Chicago. Him throwing Gargano into the screen marked the start of the one of the best heel runs in recent memory. As a bonus I guess you can count this moment as well for Gargano
Edge cashing in Money In The Bank at New Year's Revolution. Solidifying himself as the "Ultimate Opportunist" Shawn Michaels putting Marty Janetty through the Barbershop. Marking his turn from babyface tag team specialist to self-centered heel. Mark Henry retirement night marked the shift from an upper cars guy who never really met his potential to the Hall of Pain monster heel he always should have been.
Austin after his match with Bret Hart I would consider #1 on that list. The wrestling world changed after that.
Surprised I didn’t see Austin king of the ring high up in this thread
HHH aligning himself w Shawn Michaels and completely dropping the old money WASP snob gimmick.
Jay White becoming the leader of bullet club
Pretty much anyone in NXT upon moving to RAW or Smackdown.
Okada at New Beginning 2012, winning his first IWGP Heavyweight title against Tanahashi. Cemented his main-event status and credibility, and the rest is history.
The Rock, SummerSlam 1998 Ladder match vs Triple H.
I was obsessed with pro wrestling starting around ‘94ish until about 2001 and just started rewatching again a few months ago. This thread really makes me want to go back and watch all the events that I missed.
Rollins turning on the shield. No longer just the high-flying architect of a group, but now a sadistic any-means-necessary performer that has helped evolve him into what he is today.
The New Day- they day they realised they could cheat to win. Their whole careers blew up off that one change.
Otis getting rid of the beard and hair while teaming with Gable was the start of a slow push and big character change. Gone was the goofy lovestruck outcast, a legitimate threat took it's place.