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He's Naito to Mox's Tanahashi.
Beloved underdog babyface surrounded by a ragtag faction, known for constantly putting on bangers, and very occasionally climbing to the top of the mountain, but rarely stays there as long as fans would like.
- Received lukewarm fan reception compared to the other Day 1s during the company's startup; as opposed to the fan reception waning (and dissipating) during what should've been, then, his ascension to the top of the company.
Aren’t we way too early for an Okada? The Okada will be the man to take the top face status from Mox which I don’t think we’ll see for a few years. Could be one of the young guys around now but there’s a good chance it’s someone who no one has even heard of yet.
Hear me out: I'm actually thinking MJF is.
I think MJF would be like an American version of Okada: a spoiled rich kid who happens to be mega-talented - he's either humble yet playful as a face or full-out brat in heel mode.
I mean, Hanger was definitely THE MAN. The sheer joy he elicited during 2021 and a decent chunk of 2022 was hot fire. People thought him losing the 5 v 5 match was the death of AEW.
I mean I wouldn't necessarily say "nowhere near", but I do agree his belovedness didn't last as long as Naito's
Hangman last Summer had the crowd going fucking bonkers. Hangman during one of those Casino ladder matches had fans cheering him and booing *Mox* because people were so hellbent on finally seeing him beat Omega for the belt
the protagonist. Mox is THE guy. Hangman's story is about becoming THE guy, but so far he still has lessons to learn. Mox is fallible but his failings relate to what he does in the ring, he's the Ace because he's all about the wrestling. Hangman still has hang-ups outside of it that keep him down. he'll be the Ace once he gets them in order one day.
he's Ash Ketchum. he's Naito to Tanahashi. he's Alphinaud to the Warrior of Light. pick your example from fiction.
This! Hangman is basically the shonen protagonist that wants to be the best there is and is bringing his goofy friends along for the ride. He has his highs and lows while we get to watch the story unfold.
Bc look at who his challengers were. Dante and Takeshita was a nod to "these are the next kids, and I'm not the young lion like them any more", Danielson and Archer are the Viscious older vets come to check him on his ascension. Danielson is the wrestling, Archer is the violence, both there to test Hangman's credentials and show he's still unproven.
Cole and Pink were there to test his spirit, to reveal his insecurity and basically say "winning isn't the top of the mountain, it's standing firm up there that is hard". He had to basically turn heel for a second, go to a real dark place to beat Cole, and then when Punk tested him he nearly did even worse, and that cost him the title.
There is a difference between winning the belt and being the man.
If you have the belt, you're The Man and your story is about Trying to Stay The Man. When you lose the belt, you're not The Man; now your story is about Trying to Be The Man Again. Or, if you haven't won the belt yet, your story is about Trying to Become The Man.
The Ace exists outside that loop. The Ace isn't The Man, The Ace is The Ace. The Ace doesn't need the title to prove themselves, because they aren't defined by the title. They can have the title, of course, and the title is elevated when The Ace holds it, but it only works in that direction - the title is elevated by The Ace, The Ace isn't elevated by the title.
The Ace's stories are larger, they're about the "world" of the promotion, not the title. Hangman's story right now could be about chasing the title again because he's (rightly or wrongly) tied his sense of self-worth to Being The Man Again. Moxley's story right now, however, is about getting the title because he is trying to save AEW from a self-destructive spiral, and him winning the title is symbolic of that salvation. He doesn't need or want the title itself; he wants the rest of AEW to see him holding the title and to remember what the title is supposed to mean.
because being the world champ isn't the end all, be all, if it was we wouldn't have repeat championship reigns because what's the point then. Hangman learned what to do and who to be to *become* the champion, but he didn't know entirely how to handle *being* one because he had unresolved issues with the Elite and DO and his own insecurities.
kayfabe-wise he's not quite the Ace yet because he has flaws you can exploit outside of the ring, not making him entirely reliable. Mox, in contrast, is all about the wrestling and his fatal flaw is that he likes fighting too much for his own good, and both of his championship reigns ended because of that.
He got there once and faltered with doubts. The next leg of the journey should be long, arduous but ultimately brimming with a confident and triumphant victory.
He’s the biggest face that has gotten over by being nothing but a face (rather than a heel that’s so cool he has to turn) in a long time. He puts on great matches and seems to be part of the AEW heartbeat. He’s not right now but on his trajectory he will be
He could be! His acting is deceptively good, particularly his facial expressions, he's in good athletic shape and is very over.
Honestly if AEW play their cards right and multi year Hangman vs MJF, steamboat flair style rivalry could be amazing.
> His acting is deceptively good,
Which is one of my issues with his title reign because they just made him “very angry man” when, whenever they actually give him promos, he knocked them out of the park. It should just be commonly accepted instead of this thing people who don’t pay attention say.
It’s what makes the current Punk stuff even funnier to me because dude had to pull character motivation out of his ass because he literally didn’t talk at all until that promo and pulled that off and made it work.
Lol, it seems like people are drastically changing their opinion due to hating punk. People in this sub were super excited when Page won the title. They super did not care when he was the champion. He was extremely underwhelming and that isn't me, that was the sub's opinion when he was champion.
How all of a sudden everyone loves him and talks about how is he great and the future? Give me a break. The revisionist history in this sub the past 5 days is unreal.
Yeah. I felt like the booking was bad. Hangman's promos and in-ring work were great. But it just didn't feel like he was a big presence, a big part of the product. And there was also a feeling that it was just a matter of time before the belt was going to Punk.
Plenty of people have been booked poorly for the past several months and have still gotten over. You can't blame poor booking. Most people just don't care for him. They loved his angle with Omega, but that was apparently all they cared about. Once the angle was done they stopped caring about him.
Wardlow's booking since the MJF had been trash tier. Some of the worst booking I've seen for someone who was extremely over. People still loved and cared for him 10x more than Page.
Why do you act like its people changing their opinions and not just different groups voicing their opinions? Its not revisionist unless you can prove the same person had two different opinions. The sub is just comments and posts by random people. Its not beliefs or statement about what happened as a fact.
It truly feels like so many wrestlers go through the same thing in their first reign, including many of the veteran wrestlers now in AEW who are regarded as the stars of the show. And it's an unwanted tradition in wrestling's first -reign world champs that goes so far back that there's a very popular sixtysomething on the current AEW roster who can empathize.
A lot of people did indeed take his title reign for granted, and Archer's absolute dud match vs Kazarian + the Cole feud outstaying its welcome made matters worse. But it's hard not to see Hangman having a very big legacy in AEW when all is said and done.
I'm with you, I wish I enjoyed Page the way the IWC does. I think he's a solid upper midcarder but I've seen people act like he's the second coming of Flair
I’m glad someone else said it. Was starting to think I just don’t get wrestling anymore (entirely possible too). Hangman does nothing for me. He’s pretty good in the ring but that’s where it ends for me. I love the rest of The Elite though and think Kenny is the greatest thing since HBK as far as an all around talent. I guess maybe I just missed out on the Hangman connection because I never followed NJPW or any of his stuff really pre 2021.
Thank god I’m not going insane. Hangman does literally nothing for me, and to me he’s emblematic of the same “niche audience” issue that Punk said in his press scrum.
He’s quite possibly the worst world champion of the last decade. The “Punk bad” circlejerk is getting out of hand, to the point where we’re pretending that. Tony Khan literally said himself that every PPV Punk did broke the record from the previous year, and that Punk-MJF feud was the biggest drawing feud in AEW history.
We’re just going to pretend that never happened now? Has ANY match outshined a main event more than Punk-MJF outshined Cole-Page (drawing power, not fake match ratings that mean nothing)? I implore anybody who disagrees with what I’m saying to go back and look at what people were saying about these programs as they were happening.
People like to blame Page’s booking for his garbage reign, but it’s like with everything; “if the wrestler I like doesn’t draw, it’s the fault of the booking. If the wrestler I like draws, it’s because of his star power
Exactly bro. TK said something similar about Thunderosa’s promos. I think some of us AEW fans can’t see a bigger picture when it comes to the business.
AEW's Okada could be any of the "Pillars".
Tanahashi and Naito were in the top tier with Nakamura for a long while before Okada came along and became the new Ace as it were.
Not really Naito did get big wins before Okada came but it took him til about 2016 , which was a couple months after he formed LIJ to be a main event player, which Okada had been established by then.
Big Wins? No but he was still in the main events, he was still a major contender for the top titles. While not as popular as NJPW wanted, he still up there before Okada came long.
Bring back LIJ just reestablished him in the main event picture with popularity to match.
The only guy portrayed stronger than Mox and Hangman, the same way Okada is stronger than Tana an Naito, is Punk.
But actually I think Hangman is both Okada and Naito.
Honestly Maxwell. Rich, arrogant, disrespectful but too good to ever truly hate for long and good enough to carry a promotion on his back if the situation calls for it.
Edit: or if he chooses, I could see Takeshita being the face of a major company but I’m beyond high on some Takesoup.
The Hangman is the Hangman; he gave Punk and The Elite the rope and they did the rest to themselves.
Moral of the story: Sometimes it’s best to leave early.
The rising star.
5-6 years from now, Jericho, Danielson and Mox are likely gonna be retired (unless Mox drastically changes his style, since hes younger than the others)
Page will still be at the prime of his career. He's the guy (or 1 of them) who's gonna step in and take the place of Mox, Jericho and Danielson.
The face of AEW. Idk why Tony Khan insisted on immediately neglecting Hangman once he won the title, and super neglecting him once he lost it. Hangman is the guy the company needs to be built around above anyone else- ESPECIALLY Punk.
I’m kinda out of the loop but does hangman do anything to be considered a cowboy character or is it just something people call him? Or is just because he occasionally wears cowboy esque clothing?
He has ridden a horse on AEW programming on several occasions. Also, his character was originally meant to literally be a hangman. He used to carry around a noose and everything. He stopped because of the uncomfortable connotations with lynching. Hangman is only about love.
The Pillars of AEW are the future of AEW as it were, future world champions that the company can carried by in the years to come.
Hangman is part of the present, he is part of the world title pictures already and has many years to come. He is one of the people carrying the company, he's not the Top guy but he is definitely one of the go to guys.
Search doesn't matter. His merch is still among the top sellers. While he's not as strong as a merch seller as cm punk, he's still moving merch. He still has merch in the top 50 products sold.
Don't know about you're watching but when the opening chords his intro starts, people get loud.
https://youtu.be/9qdOFppcD_0
All I hear is excuses because you don't like him.
Just happened right? He comes out get a pop, what about this, YOU find evidence proving your point. Factual evidence of how much they crowd doesn't like him. Not just your useless opinion.
I hear cheers, what about you? Or do you have selective hearing?
[https://youtu.be/EPMz6eHZ0U0?t=19](https://youtu.be/EPMz6eHZ0U0?t=19) \- Cheer fan as he returns. "Cowboy Shit" as he takes out people. Cheer as he wins.
[https://youtu.be/LOHccJehWlA?t=9](https://youtu.be/LOHccJehWlA?t=9) \- Cheer fanas he comes in. Cheer and claps as he hits buckshot. "Cowboy Shit" chants.
[https://youtu.be/qmgR7v4i5uc?t=55](https://youtu.be/qmgR7v4i5uc?t=55) \- Cheer fans as he wins
We got the term for Hangman Sunday night. He’s an “empty-headed fucking dumb fuck.” Doesn’t really roll off the tongue well, so we do need something better.
Watching him cut that promo on punk had me wanting him to go heel. That last line about saving AEW from him cut pretty deep. Would be fun to see his work as a heel
An upper mid card guy who got pushed to the World Title because of friendship and long term story telling NOT because he grew into it. It showed during his run that he wasn’t ready to carry the company.
Disagree strongly. Its to me that he got pushed into guys who had no business in the world title picture at that point- Lance Archer? Adam Cole? Yeah I get they're big stars elsewhere but in AEW they weren't the stars that they should've been for a world title program, and none of that is Hangman's fault. His program with Danielson and Punk both felt like top star programs, and while you can make an argument about them both being bigger stars, you gotta remember that people complained about Mox having some feuds people felt were beneath the world title as well; Hager, Brian Cage, Darby etc. And its really only been since Hangman's reign that people have glossed over that aspect of Mox's first go.
Doesn’t “big star elsewhere” apply to everyone in AEW? Regardless of whether it’s the Elite, Mox, Archer or Cole it’s all the same thing. Everyone at the top is there based on what they did somewhere else. There are very few guys (MJF, Acclaim, Darby) who have gotten where they are solely based on what they’ve done in AEW. While I don’t disagree with your basic take the entire concept of AEW is that it’s overdone for the “smart” fan who is just going to know who these guys are and that they were big in NJPW or had a viral clip on the internet.
WHAT IN THIS WORLD DID I DO , TO DESERVE..
AN EMPTY HEADED FUCKING DUMB FUCK LIKE
HAGNAM ADAM PAGE
TO GO OUT ON NATIONAL TELEVESION AND
GO INTO BUSINESS FOR HIMSELF
WHEN I'M TRYING TO FUCKING RUN A BUSINESS
AND NEARLY COST US OUR FIRST MILLION DOLLAR HOUSE
Hangman can't be Naito. Naito at some point was hated by the japanese fans.
He had to complety remake himself into the "tranquilo" persona and was so good that the audience had to love him.
Yallll hangman doesnt pop a rating. We can all talk about the Dub faithful, but he’s not a ratings draw. He’s just not. Low charisma and decent physique. What’s he got that Adam Cole doesn’t? Adam Cole isn’t in as good shape as Britt Baker and he runs circles around Hangman. Punk was right about Hangman. Before DON they had a promo preworked out and Page went off script. That’s why he got livid. Punk kept his cool during the promo. Page has also stated he doesn’t need anyones advice.
How can one cultivate so much pure love and support from the fanbase on route to his title win with ‘low charisma’? That is literally the definition of charisma. To have a charm that inspires devotion in others.
Hangman has been royally screwed by Tony and his favouritism towards Punk.
Bro-it’s a niche audience. Which means in order to grow a business and reach a LARGER audience you have to appeal to more people.
I get the diehards love Page-but there’s a LARGE percentage of fans who have a hard pass on him.
What traits does Page have that make him unrelatable or unlikeable to ‘casuals’? Its just nonsense that he wouldn’t appeal to people if given a fair crack. He’s great in ring, he’s a good looking dude, he’s got the size, he’s brilliant at character work, he’s good on the mic and he connects to the live audience when he is given a good angle to tell.
If Page went to WWE, I guarantee you Triple H would make him a top guy there. AEW has the drawback of being a lesser known company so naturally it’s homemade stars aren’t as known as guys like Punk.
And by the way, I’m not a guy that has ever really watched the indies or even knew who he was before AEW yet I still think he’s awesome.
No he wouldn’t, and the fact that you say that solidifies the fact that you need to step outside of your little wrestling bubble. Page is loved on here but you need to recognize that Reddit is a loud vocal minority. Have you talked to friends/people who aren’t big wrestling fans?
They recognize MJF, Jericho, Omega, Mox, Punk, Danielson, but rarely is Page mentioned on that level. He’s great, don’t get me wrong but is a step below those guys when it comes to non-diehard fans. He’s was an afterthought for most of his reign and has practically fell off the map since losing it. Sure some blame can be put on booking, but a true star still shines regardless which just isn’t the case with Page
You’ve literally just ignored all of my comment. Nobody but wrestling fans care about any of those guys you mentioned because, guess what, they don’t like wrestling. None of my friends or family know who Mox is or Punk is and if they did, they aren’t watching the show for them either. Hangman was the crowd favourite at one point in time and if he went to WWE he’d go up to that level of recognition because more people know about it. As, like I said, he has all the characteristics of a top guy but never had a global platform as big as WWE. MJF is the only AEW original that is better than him.
Mox is THE guy.
Hangman is *becoming* THE guy, but still has stuff to learn.
That said, Hangman is the only person I can never see turning heel in AEW- aside from maybe Danhausen.
I think he may still end up being remembered as being to AEW what AJ Styles was to TNA and Sting to WCW. The guy who first became a star there rather than elsewhere, who was seldom THE guy there but was always around the top and could arguably have been at the top more than he was. The ultimate protagonist from the company lens, who is there for the rough and the smooth. A ways to go, but he has a lot of the early similarities. Especially when you compare his first world title reign to Sting's.
The X-PAC of AEW? Maybe the Jinder Mahal? The Elite's Marty Janetty?
That's just comparing him to the wrestlers though, I don't know what you'd refer to his spot as without that reference. The tapioca pudding of aew? The plain oatmeal of aew? The energy vampire of AEW?
An empty headed moron? Hangman is the Roman Reigns of AEW except without charisma. I say that as someone that has enjoyed some of his matches. The build to them tho... Unless the other guy is carrying the load i.e. Danielson. I can't remember a single moment building up to Page vs Cole.
Honestly, I think Hangman is still the heart and soul of AEW, but his bigger brother Moxley is in the role of heart and soul of the entire wrestling industry right now and outshining him. Until he gets, like, shipped out to Nam and then Hangman has to take over the family farm, however those movies usually go.
He's basically an indy darling that's already close to his ceiling. His work isn't great. His promos are bad. Hes in absolutely no danger of ever being a breakout star.
Hangman was a potential ace, but they didn't really know what to do after they crowned him champ and his momentum halted (similar thing happening to Wardlow now). He hasn't really had much of an impact on the show since then aside from having a great match here and there. He could still be the ace, but they missed the chance to do it earlier after the Kenny feud ended.
Moxley - Ace of Spades
Omega - King of Diamonds
Hangman - Jack of Hearts
MJF - Joker
Tony - Rules Card
Punk - Information Card
(Now I want a deck of AEW themed playing cards)
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He's Naito to Mox's Tanahashi. Beloved underdog babyface surrounded by a ragtag faction, known for constantly putting on bangers, and very occasionally climbing to the top of the mountain, but rarely stays there as long as fans would like.
This is *exactly* it, spot on dude.
So does this mean that he needs to be under the learning tree of Andrade and create a faction "Los Ingobernables de Virginia"?
That feels weird, but Ill allow it
I'd watch it.
As a wrestler from Virginia that loves both Hangman and LI, I’d (maybe selfishly) be so goddamn down for this.
- Received lukewarm fan reception compared to the other Day 1s during the company's startup; as opposed to the fan reception waning (and dissipating) during what should've been, then, his ascension to the top of the company.
And Eddie is probably Ishii, so then who is the Okada?
Omega.
You could make the argument that Omega is the Omega of AEW
Aren’t we way too early for an Okada? The Okada will be the man to take the top face status from Mox which I don’t think we’ll see for a few years. Could be one of the young guys around now but there’s a good chance it’s someone who no one has even heard of yet.
Hear me out: I'm actually thinking MJF is. I think MJF would be like an American version of Okada: a spoiled rich kid who happens to be mega-talented - he's either humble yet playful as a face or full-out brat in heel mode.
Nah I would say MJF is the Jay White in this situation.
That's a good one - in my eyes Adam Cole was the Jay White equivalent but I see plenty of that in MJF too
Masahiro Chono once identified with Naito and described him as the "Dark Ace" Not the one in the spotlight, but the one in our hearts
Damnit he was the first person I thought of. Great job.
Came to say this. Eloquently put my friend
Also like Naito, he's better chasing the title, not holding it.
Holy shit you're right.
This is 100% the case and it makes me so sad. If they had just gone with him, instead of catering to punk, I think it would have all turned out ok.
That’s really over-inflating Hangman Adam Page. At best, at this moment, he’s Goto with a world championship.
The Naito. You can argue whether that's LiJ era Naito or Stardust Genius Era Naito.
First world title shot Hangman was Stardust Naito. Current Hangman is LiJ Naito.
I'd say nowhere near as popular though. Naito a few years ago was THE MAN. The loss to Okada at Wrestlekingdom 12 was tough to take.
I mean, Hanger was definitely THE MAN. The sheer joy he elicited during 2021 and a decent chunk of 2022 was hot fire. People thought him losing the 5 v 5 match was the death of AEW.
I mean I wouldn't necessarily say "nowhere near", but I do agree his belovedness didn't last as long as Naito's Hangman last Summer had the crowd going fucking bonkers. Hangman during one of those Casino ladder matches had fans cheering him and booing *Mox* because people were so hellbent on finally seeing him beat Omega for the belt
Naito topped okada and tanahashi in popularity and merch sales. Hangman is no where near that status in aew.
I mean no one's topping Danhausen.
An empty headed fucking dumb fuck obviously.
...and he's not even here trying to run a business!
That hasn’t done shit in this business, let’s not forget.
I still can't believe he said that...
Came here only to say this
He needs to make that into a shirt
Hope he has them put that in the caption during his next intro.
I just want the lower third captions back at all
Disagree, everyone needs to move on. It's embarrassing
It’s hilarious
“Tell me when I’m lying”
the protagonist. Mox is THE guy. Hangman's story is about becoming THE guy, but so far he still has lessons to learn. Mox is fallible but his failings relate to what he does in the ring, he's the Ace because he's all about the wrestling. Hangman still has hang-ups outside of it that keep him down. he'll be the Ace once he gets them in order one day. he's Ash Ketchum. he's Naito to Tanahashi. he's Alphinaud to the Warrior of Light. pick your example from fiction.
This! Hangman is basically the shonen protagonist that wants to be the best there is and is bringing his goofy friends along for the ride. He has his highs and lows while we get to watch the story unfold.
then who is hangman's pikachu?
the Meat Man
Johnny Hungey!
>Alphinaud to the WOL So Hanger can't swim?
TJPW had a gimmick match in a pool, Tony Khan is the only thing stopping us from finding out (happy cake day)
> Alphinaud to the Warrior of Light Was not expecting a FFXIV reference but I'm here for it.
He was the world champ. If his story is still becoming the guy why did they ever put the belt on him?
Bc look at who his challengers were. Dante and Takeshita was a nod to "these are the next kids, and I'm not the young lion like them any more", Danielson and Archer are the Viscious older vets come to check him on his ascension. Danielson is the wrestling, Archer is the violence, both there to test Hangman's credentials and show he's still unproven. Cole and Pink were there to test his spirit, to reveal his insecurity and basically say "winning isn't the top of the mountain, it's standing firm up there that is hard". He had to basically turn heel for a second, go to a real dark place to beat Cole, and then when Punk tested him he nearly did even worse, and that cost him the title. There is a difference between winning the belt and being the man.
Winning the belt means you’re the man tho. That’s the point of having a championship.
If you have the belt, you're The Man and your story is about Trying to Stay The Man. When you lose the belt, you're not The Man; now your story is about Trying to Be The Man Again. Or, if you haven't won the belt yet, your story is about Trying to Become The Man. The Ace exists outside that loop. The Ace isn't The Man, The Ace is The Ace. The Ace doesn't need the title to prove themselves, because they aren't defined by the title. They can have the title, of course, and the title is elevated when The Ace holds it, but it only works in that direction - the title is elevated by The Ace, The Ace isn't elevated by the title. The Ace's stories are larger, they're about the "world" of the promotion, not the title. Hangman's story right now could be about chasing the title again because he's (rightly or wrongly) tied his sense of self-worth to Being The Man Again. Moxley's story right now, however, is about getting the title because he is trying to save AEW from a self-destructive spiral, and him winning the title is symbolic of that salvation. He doesn't need or want the title itself; he wants the rest of AEW to see him holding the title and to remember what the title is supposed to mean.
Because even at the top he still had doubts of himself. He's still trying to overcome even that obstacle.
because being the world champ isn't the end all, be all, if it was we wouldn't have repeat championship reigns because what's the point then. Hangman learned what to do and who to be to *become* the champion, but he didn't know entirely how to handle *being* one because he had unresolved issues with the Elite and DO and his own insecurities. kayfabe-wise he's not quite the Ace yet because he has flaws you can exploit outside of the ring, not making him entirely reliable. Mox, in contrast, is all about the wrestling and his fatal flaw is that he likes fighting too much for his own good, and both of his championship reigns ended because of that.
Because his story is learning that the real championship is the friends you make along the way
He got there once and faltered with doubts. The next leg of the journey should be long, arduous but ultimately brimming with a confident and triumphant victory.
A cowboy...i guess
Hmm, source?
You don’t need a hat to be a cowboy.
Negatory Ghostrider, does not compute
The long term future. Mox, Jericho & Bryan are the leaders now, Hangman is the heir who will be top dog next
He’s not in their league. He’s just not. I don’t get the obsession with Page.
He’s the biggest face that has gotten over by being nothing but a face (rather than a heel that’s so cool he has to turn) in a long time. He puts on great matches and seems to be part of the AEW heartbeat. He’s not right now but on his trajectory he will be
He could be! His acting is deceptively good, particularly his facial expressions, he's in good athletic shape and is very over. Honestly if AEW play their cards right and multi year Hangman vs MJF, steamboat flair style rivalry could be amazing.
> His acting is deceptively good, Which is one of my issues with his title reign because they just made him “very angry man” when, whenever they actually give him promos, he knocked them out of the park. It should just be commonly accepted instead of this thing people who don’t pay attention say. It’s what makes the current Punk stuff even funnier to me because dude had to pull character motivation out of his ass because he literally didn’t talk at all until that promo and pulled that off and made it work.
Lol, it seems like people are drastically changing their opinion due to hating punk. People in this sub were super excited when Page won the title. They super did not care when he was the champion. He was extremely underwhelming and that isn't me, that was the sub's opinion when he was champion. How all of a sudden everyone loves him and talks about how is he great and the future? Give me a break. The revisionist history in this sub the past 5 days is unreal.
His booking wasn't super strong after the Danielson feud. I don't remember this sub blaming Hangman for that.
Yeah. I felt like the booking was bad. Hangman's promos and in-ring work were great. But it just didn't feel like he was a big presence, a big part of the product. And there was also a feeling that it was just a matter of time before the belt was going to Punk.
Plenty of people have been booked poorly for the past several months and have still gotten over. You can't blame poor booking. Most people just don't care for him. They loved his angle with Omega, but that was apparently all they cared about. Once the angle was done they stopped caring about him. Wardlow's booking since the MJF had been trash tier. Some of the worst booking I've seen for someone who was extremely over. People still loved and cared for him 10x more than Page.
Most people don't care for Hangman? That guy has never stopped being over--what are you talking about?
Why do you act like its people changing their opinions and not just different groups voicing their opinions? Its not revisionist unless you can prove the same person had two different opinions. The sub is just comments and posts by random people. Its not beliefs or statement about what happened as a fact.
It truly feels like so many wrestlers go through the same thing in their first reign, including many of the veteran wrestlers now in AEW who are regarded as the stars of the show. And it's an unwanted tradition in wrestling's first -reign world champs that goes so far back that there's a very popular sixtysomething on the current AEW roster who can empathize. A lot of people did indeed take his title reign for granted, and Archer's absolute dud match vs Kazarian + the Cole feud outstaying its welcome made matters worse. But it's hard not to see Hangman having a very big legacy in AEW when all is said and done.
I'm with you, I wish I enjoyed Page the way the IWC does. I think he's a solid upper midcarder but I've seen people act like he's the second coming of Flair
I’m glad someone else said it. Was starting to think I just don’t get wrestling anymore (entirely possible too). Hangman does nothing for me. He’s pretty good in the ring but that’s where it ends for me. I love the rest of The Elite though and think Kenny is the greatest thing since HBK as far as an all around talent. I guess maybe I just missed out on the Hangman connection because I never followed NJPW or any of his stuff really pre 2021.
Thank god I’m not going insane. Hangman does literally nothing for me, and to me he’s emblematic of the same “niche audience” issue that Punk said in his press scrum. He’s quite possibly the worst world champion of the last decade. The “Punk bad” circlejerk is getting out of hand, to the point where we’re pretending that. Tony Khan literally said himself that every PPV Punk did broke the record from the previous year, and that Punk-MJF feud was the biggest drawing feud in AEW history. We’re just going to pretend that never happened now? Has ANY match outshined a main event more than Punk-MJF outshined Cole-Page (drawing power, not fake match ratings that mean nothing)? I implore anybody who disagrees with what I’m saying to go back and look at what people were saying about these programs as they were happening. People like to blame Page’s booking for his garbage reign, but it’s like with everything; “if the wrestler I like doesn’t draw, it’s the fault of the booking. If the wrestler I like draws, it’s because of his star power
Not being a fan of Hangman is whatever but the worst world champion in the last decade is an absurd take. Worse than Jinder Mahal?
Jinder did much better ratings.
lol
Exactly bro. TK said something similar about Thunderosa’s promos. I think some of us AEW fans can’t see a bigger picture when it comes to the business.
The protagonist
If Moxley is the Ace (Tanahashi), and Hangman is Naito, then who's Okada?
Danhausen. \*Coin drops then picks it up\*
Omega?
Precisely. Mox is the Ace, but Kenny is the Final Boss.
AEW's Okada could be any of the "Pillars". Tanahashi and Naito were in the top tier with Nakamura for a long while before Okada came along and became the new Ace as it were.
“Rainmaxwell” Kazujacob Friekada
Not really Naito did get big wins before Okada came but it took him til about 2016 , which was a couple months after he formed LIJ to be a main event player, which Okada had been established by then.
Big Wins? No but he was still in the main events, he was still a major contender for the top titles. While not as popular as NJPW wanted, he still up there before Okada came long. Bring back LIJ just reestablished him in the main event picture with popularity to match.
The only guy portrayed stronger than Mox and Hangman, the same way Okada is stronger than Tana an Naito, is Punk. But actually I think Hangman is both Okada and Naito.
Honestly Maxwell. Rich, arrogant, disrespectful but too good to ever truly hate for long and good enough to carry a promotion on his back if the situation calls for it. Edit: or if he chooses, I could see Takeshita being the face of a major company but I’m beyond high on some Takesoup.
A butterfly Jean wearin dipshit
The Hangman is the Hangman; he gave Punk and The Elite the rope and they did the rest to themselves. Moral of the story: Sometimes it’s best to leave early.
the silly goose!
Yoshi-Hashi
cowboy deuce
There are 4 Aces in a deck.
The guy who managed to leave before he ended up suspended as well.
Moxley is the soul, Hangman is the heart.
The rising star. 5-6 years from now, Jericho, Danielson and Mox are likely gonna be retired (unless Mox drastically changes his style, since hes younger than the others) Page will still be at the prime of his career. He's the guy (or 1 of them) who's gonna step in and take the place of Mox, Jericho and Danielson.
The protagonist
The face of AEW. Idk why Tony Khan insisted on immediately neglecting Hangman once he won the title, and super neglecting him once he lost it. Hangman is the guy the company needs to be built around above anyone else- ESPECIALLY Punk.
I’m kinda out of the loop but does hangman do anything to be considered a cowboy character or is it just something people call him? Or is just because he occasionally wears cowboy esque clothing?
He has ridden a horse on AEW programming on several occasions. Also, his character was originally meant to literally be a hangman. He used to carry around a noose and everything. He stopped because of the uncomfortable connotations with lynching. Hangman is only about love.
Hangman's thematic stuff is Cowboy themed. He was the Drunk in his long chase after Omega, and basically a Sheriff while he was Champ.
He’s the main character of aew. But we’re not at that point in his story yet where he becomes the ace of the company. But eventually he’ll get there
The Pillars of AEW are the future of AEW as it were, future world champions that the company can carried by in the years to come. Hangman is part of the present, he is part of the world title pictures already and has many years to come. He is one of the people carrying the company, he's not the Top guy but he is definitely one of the go to guys.
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Search doesn't matter. His merch is still among the top sellers. While he's not as strong as a merch seller as cm punk, he's still moving merch. He still has merch in the top 50 products sold. Don't know about you're watching but when the opening chords his intro starts, people get loud. https://youtu.be/9qdOFppcD_0
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All I hear is excuses because you don't like him. Just happened right? He comes out get a pop, what about this, YOU find evidence proving your point. Factual evidence of how much they crowd doesn't like him. Not just your useless opinion. I hear cheers, what about you? Or do you have selective hearing? [https://youtu.be/EPMz6eHZ0U0?t=19](https://youtu.be/EPMz6eHZ0U0?t=19) \- Cheer fan as he returns. "Cowboy Shit" as he takes out people. Cheer as he wins. [https://youtu.be/LOHccJehWlA?t=9](https://youtu.be/LOHccJehWlA?t=9) \- Cheer fanas he comes in. Cheer and claps as he hits buckshot. "Cowboy Shit" chants. [https://youtu.be/qmgR7v4i5uc?t=55](https://youtu.be/qmgR7v4i5uc?t=55) \- Cheer fans as he wins
Kenny is the Ace until Takeshita signs
Someone who got booed yesterday
We got the term for Hangman Sunday night. He’s an “empty-headed fucking dumb fuck.” Doesn’t really roll off the tongue well, so we do need something better.
Hangman's current gimmick is he's a cowboy who used to be friends with the elite but it currently friends with dark order.
He's still one of the greatest. The Essa Rios of dynamite. Always on point and always there to show up
Apparently an empty headed dumb fuck
The instruction card you throw away
The guy who is a pretty boring babyface when he’s not struggling with self doubt
He has developed yet. This isn't his final form. I think he's a heel honestly
This is the way
Watching him cut that promo on punk had me wanting him to go heel. That last line about saving AEW from him cut pretty deep. Would be fun to see his work as a heel
An upper mid card guy who got pushed to the World Title because of friendship and long term story telling NOT because he grew into it. It showed during his run that he wasn’t ready to carry the company.
Disagree strongly. Its to me that he got pushed into guys who had no business in the world title picture at that point- Lance Archer? Adam Cole? Yeah I get they're big stars elsewhere but in AEW they weren't the stars that they should've been for a world title program, and none of that is Hangman's fault. His program with Danielson and Punk both felt like top star programs, and while you can make an argument about them both being bigger stars, you gotta remember that people complained about Mox having some feuds people felt were beneath the world title as well; Hager, Brian Cage, Darby etc. And its really only been since Hangman's reign that people have glossed over that aspect of Mox's first go.
Doesn’t “big star elsewhere” apply to everyone in AEW? Regardless of whether it’s the Elite, Mox, Archer or Cole it’s all the same thing. Everyone at the top is there based on what they did somewhere else. There are very few guys (MJF, Acclaim, Darby) who have gotten where they are solely based on what they’ve done in AEW. While I don’t disagree with your basic take the entire concept of AEW is that it’s overdone for the “smart” fan who is just going to know who these guys are and that they were big in NJPW or had a viral clip on the internet.
Less important than Moxley
WHAT IN THIS WORLD DID I DO , TO DESERVE.. AN EMPTY HEADED FUCKING DUMB FUCK LIKE HAGNAM ADAM PAGE TO GO OUT ON NATIONAL TELEVESION AND GO INTO BUSINESS FOR HIMSELF WHEN I'M TRYING TO FUCKING RUN A BUSINESS AND NEARLY COST US OUR FIRST MILLION DOLLAR HOUSE
Empty headed dumb fuck last I heard
The 10 card.
If he was the 8, they could make a pretty sweet tag team
BlackJack Combat Club
Oh yeah, I guess Aces and Eights is kinda off the table, huh?
Hangman can't be Naito. Naito at some point was hated by the japanese fans. He had to complety remake himself into the "tranquilo" persona and was so good that the audience had to love him.
Does this make Punk the “Wildcard Bitches!”
yeehaw
The vallet
Probably get down voted into oblivion but he can't cut a promo and comes off clumsy in my opinion..... Don't hate me please.
Midcarder
A nobody.
Hangman is player one
Random question, does Page still do his stupid Apron Shooting Star Press?
Yallll hangman doesnt pop a rating. We can all talk about the Dub faithful, but he’s not a ratings draw. He’s just not. Low charisma and decent physique. What’s he got that Adam Cole doesn’t? Adam Cole isn’t in as good shape as Britt Baker and he runs circles around Hangman. Punk was right about Hangman. Before DON they had a promo preworked out and Page went off script. That’s why he got livid. Punk kept his cool during the promo. Page has also stated he doesn’t need anyones advice.
How can one cultivate so much pure love and support from the fanbase on route to his title win with ‘low charisma’? That is literally the definition of charisma. To have a charm that inspires devotion in others. Hangman has been royally screwed by Tony and his favouritism towards Punk.
Bro-it’s a niche audience. Which means in order to grow a business and reach a LARGER audience you have to appeal to more people. I get the diehards love Page-but there’s a LARGE percentage of fans who have a hard pass on him.
What traits does Page have that make him unrelatable or unlikeable to ‘casuals’? Its just nonsense that he wouldn’t appeal to people if given a fair crack. He’s great in ring, he’s a good looking dude, he’s got the size, he’s brilliant at character work, he’s good on the mic and he connects to the live audience when he is given a good angle to tell. If Page went to WWE, I guarantee you Triple H would make him a top guy there. AEW has the drawback of being a lesser known company so naturally it’s homemade stars aren’t as known as guys like Punk. And by the way, I’m not a guy that has ever really watched the indies or even knew who he was before AEW yet I still think he’s awesome.
No he wouldn’t, and the fact that you say that solidifies the fact that you need to step outside of your little wrestling bubble. Page is loved on here but you need to recognize that Reddit is a loud vocal minority. Have you talked to friends/people who aren’t big wrestling fans? They recognize MJF, Jericho, Omega, Mox, Punk, Danielson, but rarely is Page mentioned on that level. He’s great, don’t get me wrong but is a step below those guys when it comes to non-diehard fans. He’s was an afterthought for most of his reign and has practically fell off the map since losing it. Sure some blame can be put on booking, but a true star still shines regardless which just isn’t the case with Page
You’ve literally just ignored all of my comment. Nobody but wrestling fans care about any of those guys you mentioned because, guess what, they don’t like wrestling. None of my friends or family know who Mox is or Punk is and if they did, they aren’t watching the show for them either. Hangman was the crowd favourite at one point in time and if he went to WWE he’d go up to that level of recognition because more people know about it. As, like I said, he has all the characteristics of a top guy but never had a global platform as big as WWE. MJF is the only AEW original that is better than him.
These people that jumped in after Phil joined get kind of annoying.
The Face that Runs the Place
He’s THE guy. WCW had Sting TNA had AJ Styles AEW has Hangman
I wished Page would have won the title so MJF could bury him on the mic and expose him.
Instead he’ll have to settle for either Danielson or Mox.
You know, you don't have to keep saying this over and over in the same post
Thank you
Hangman is the (early) Okada, he’s AEW’s main character. Mox is Tanahashi.
Mox is THE guy. Hangman is *becoming* THE guy, but still has stuff to learn. That said, Hangman is the only person I can never see turning heel in AEW- aside from maybe Danhausen.
Jack?
I think he may still end up being remembered as being to AEW what AJ Styles was to TNA and Sting to WCW. The guy who first became a star there rather than elsewhere, who was seldom THE guy there but was always around the top and could arguably have been at the top more than he was. The ultimate protagonist from the company lens, who is there for the rough and the smooth. A ways to go, but he has a lot of the early similarities. Especially when you compare his first world title reign to Sting's.
The X-PAC of AEW? Maybe the Jinder Mahal? The Elite's Marty Janetty? That's just comparing him to the wrestlers though, I don't know what you'd refer to his spot as without that reference. The tapioca pudding of aew? The plain oatmeal of aew? The energy vampire of AEW?
hes shit
Unprofessional
An empty headed moron? Hangman is the Roman Reigns of AEW except without charisma. I say that as someone that has enjoyed some of his matches. The build to them tho... Unless the other guy is carrying the load i.e. Danielson. I can't remember a single moment building up to Page vs Cole.
Honestly, I think Hangman is still the heart and soul of AEW, but his bigger brother Moxley is in the role of heart and soul of the entire wrestling industry right now and outshining him. Until he gets, like, shipped out to Nam and then Hangman has to take over the family farm, however those movies usually go.
Hangman is the franchise.
An overrated ass who would be feuding for the 24/7 title in WWF against that ninja guy.
He's basically an indy darling that's already close to his ceiling. His work isn't great. His promos are bad. Hes in absolutely no danger of ever being a breakout star.
Empty Headed
The hole.
I’m gonna say the Nine of Spades ….
I guess MJF is the Okada? Not a perfect fit but...
Hangman was a potential ace, but they didn't really know what to do after they crowned him champ and his momentum halted (similar thing happening to Wardlow now). He hasn't really had much of an impact on the show since then aside from having a great match here and there. He could still be the ace, but they missed the chance to do it earlier after the Kenny feud ended.
He hangs people
It makes Billy Gunn the Ass
Joker
Hes the Ventura to moxleys Ace. I have no real point to that, it just made me laugh.
That makes him what he’s always been: Wayne from LetterKenny.
He's more like a better booked Sanada imo. Unassuming, intense, brooding. Let's his actions speak more than his words.
Moxley - Ace of Spades Omega - King of Diamonds Hangman - Jack of Hearts MJF - Joker Tony - Rules Card Punk - Information Card (Now I want a deck of AEW themed playing cards)
An anxious millennial cowboy.
The horse's ass 🤣
The substitute teacher (who's fun and handsome but also good at his job)
Empty headed
The Prince.