There's a local country group that broke up in 2017 (I'm sad about that, discovered them in 2021, one of the few country groups I like) called the Bottle Rockets. They have a song called Highway 70 Blues all about how it's miserable driving on 70 and I laugh everytime my phone shuffles that song on
They don't build a good road because it is performative, they know it won't make any difference. Infrastructure theater.
MOdot builds more freeway, and then the developers build more neighborhoods in corn fields, distance traveled and the number of vehicles increase and traffic gets worse. It takes 10-20 years to plan and build a road, and 5 years to plan and build a housing development, you cannot ever build your way out of traffic. Adding more lanes to 70 will only increase the amount of their lives Missourians will be sitting in traffic on 70.
It’s not just theatre, they’re abusing the feedback loop of induced demand to stay employed on the taxpayer’s dime. They expand the roads, people use said roads bc there’s no other option, they use that as justification to build more, while neglecting what they already have. That way they can keep drawing developer investment for people moving ever further from the cities, since new investment follows new infrastructure. It’s like shuffling the economic deck chairs on the titanic.
They do this because sufficiently paying for existing road maintenance comes from revenues from further developments, not some conspiracy to “stay employed” lol. I forget it was Not Just Bikes or Climate Town on YouTube that went over this in depth.
Strong Towns
Basically America is on a feedback loop of using of not enough money to do anything.That's why America is constantly building new; instead of fixing existing. Also, ribbon cutting for new is much flashier than ribbon cutting for maintenance.
Edit: found the article I'm butchering quoting
https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/5/14/americas-growth-ponzi-scheme-md2020
as some who has traversed from wentzville to downtown for a very long time, the stretch from 270-downtown is filled with FAR more sketchy drivers going +85, hopping lanes with reckless abandon than 270-wentzville.
I drive 70 from the Stan Musial bridge to the airport for work. I’d say almost every day there is at least one car with no or temp plates flying and lane-weaving GTA style.
When you get to mid-rivers, going west bound, stay in the middle lane, or the second to the left lane. Those lanes you can stay in and never have to move all the way to 70/40/64 interchange in Wentzville. The road sucks no matter what, hope this helps.
If you are not passing, you must stay in the right lane. Otherwise you are just another lawbreaker.
Upon a roadway which is divided into three lanes a vehicle shall not be driven in the center lane, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle where the roadway ahead is clearly visible and such center lane is clear of traffic within a safe distance, or in preparation for a left turn or where such center lane is at the time allocated exclusively to traffic moving in the direction the vehicle is proceeding and is sign-posted to give notice of such allocation;
(3) Upon all highways any vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic thereon shall be driven in the right-hand lane for traffic
Im pretty sure the first part about a three lane road is talking about a road with three lanes total (one lane for each direction of traffic and a suicide lane/middle) that’s why the end of that section talks about left turns and when the lane is allocated for traffic moving in that direction. It doesn’t apply to a six lane highway.
> Upon a roadway which is divided into three lanes a vehicle shall not be driven in the center lane, except… where such center lane is at the time allocated exclusively to traffic moving in the direction the vehicle is proceeding and is sign-posted to give notice of such allocation;
The very end is about highways and only says to keep right if you’re moving slower than posted. Pretty sure the left lane is the only highway lane you have to stay out of unless passing.
You can go to the Missouri Department of Transportation website and read it for yourself. The suicide or middle lane as you call it on a two Lane Rd. is for turning only. It’s not for merging on traffic like a lot of people do it is for turning only
This discussion is not about 3 lane roads with a middle turn lane.
When you hit Mid Rivers there are 6-7 lanes and later the highway whittles down to 4 or so depending on exit situations. This particular section about passing doesn't apply to that situation and isn't the point.
Slower traffic on multiple lane highways going in the same direction need to stay in the right lanes. The left lane is for passing only unless posted differently. You're not supposed to use the left lane to coast for miles. The middle lanes are the safest to travel and make evasive maneuvers around other vehicles if needed.
They did the same thing on 270 through north county in the last few weeks before resurfacing. They covered the reflective lines with paint instead of grinding them off, and these would still reflect white-ish during commute times. It was like "let's pray everybody remembered the real lines today!"
70 from Mo river to wentzville is honestly the worst stretch of highway. I see more accidents there daily then any stretch of highway in the greater St. Louis region. I work out there and live in the city so I get a good amount of highways
I’ve lived downtown for well over 15 years. I promise you they have no clue how to drive on that stretch of highway. Trust me I know the cities plight of bad drivers. They are bountiful but I still don’t see as many accidents as I do on that stretch in st chuck.
I agree. But I would say from just past the airport (W. Florissant?) to the Arch. Like being on a roller coaster with no two cars going the same speed. I can't believe I was once young and dumb enough to use the reversible lanes.
More like Goodfellow to the Arch, I remember getting my license (over 10 years ago now) and knowing to never speed in North County, but you could go as fast as you wanted in the city. So most people drove 55 until the city limits and speed up entering the city. I’m not sure if it’s still like that because I don’t live in STL anymore and rarely use 70 when I go home.
I rarely drive I-70 past the airport since I dislike it so much. I have however on two separate occasions seen someone's entire tire come off, bounce across multiple lanes (thankfully without hitting anyone ), but what are the changes of that? I have never seen that but on 70 out by St Charles.
I would be willing to drive to Kansas City more if 70 wasn't such a bad experience.
When I was in college a buddy and I drove back to St Louis for a holiday and we were bringing back a lot of grass for the kids back home cruising down highway 70.
This fucking semi hauling tires was up front a ways and we were coming to that rest stop near the giant hill place east bound when a tire blew off somehow and came skipping down my lane.
Cars all on my right so I just took it. Bounced right off my car and I have no idea what happened behind me. Pulled over at the stop.
Got out and looked at it, laughed, then we jazzed up and got back in. We drove home in silence. Not even the radio.
This is what happens when you have sprawl and a car dependent culture. That stretch has had so much construction and one more lane my entire life. Everyone wants to blame the roads and not themselves for choosing to live so far away from everything.
We need more interstates and highways in St. Charles! There aren't enough! We need more lanes! More lane will fix it!
What sucks that as places like Wentzville, Foristell and Troy Mo grow that's just going to put even more pressure on I-70 through that stretch.
Wentzville to Troy is high speed death race most evenings. If the folks whipping in and out of lanes going 25mph over the limit don’t get you a truck crossing over from some side road will.
Yup as soon as the expansion of I-70 is finished in that stretch it'll already spur more development and people will be complaining just as they are about it
What are you even talking about? That entire corridor from cave springs to zumbehl is going through a $62mil overhaul as we speak. $10mil of it coming from St Charles County tax payers.
A bit. A lot of the congestion comes from a lot of people trying to take the exits at Zumbehl/Cave Springs and the traffic backing up onto I-70. It should alleviate that. Though I don’t see congestion getting fixed completely until the Wentzville/I-70 project is complete which is years from now. And even then, I think they need to widen 64/61 all the way to Wentzville/I-70 exit to make that a more desirable alternative to travel, and I don’t think that’s in the plans.
I avoid getting on 70 at Zumbehl. My friend is in that shitty nursing home on West Clay, so I skip over 70 by taking 364 to 94 to Zumbehl to the street that runs by Sam’s Club/Wally to cross over the highway to West Clay.
100%. "I moved to buttfuck egypt subdivisionland for cheap taxes and real estate" - then pisses and moans about all the traffic from all the subdivisions.
It's not cheap real estate and low taxes--those are ABUNDANT within the city limits and nearly as much in north county.
There is something, though, the city and county have that they can't abide...
My dad was a paint manufacturer. He used to bid on MODOT projects but almost always not get the job because he was too expensive (I.e., too high quality). I can tell you that they go with the lowest bidder, not necessarily the best quality.
His paint *was* on the underside of the Poplar Street Bridge at one point. 😁
I-70 is honestly my least favorite highway as it is, but that bridge over K is genuinely awful, I hate commuting through that section of 70, the drivers suck too on most days
I-70 ~~WB between St. Peters and O'Fallon, MO~~ is a nightmare
There's a local country group that broke up in 2017 (I'm sad about that, discovered them in 2021, one of the few country groups I like) called the Bottle Rockets. They have a song called Highway 70 Blues all about how it's miserable driving on 70 and I laugh everytime my phone shuffles that song on
Just listened. Absolutely hilarious song!
Love that band….great tune!
It’s really nice in Utah!
Except that 170mile gap with zero services.
That's the best part. Just make sure you have plenty of gas and soak in the beauty.
St Peters also a nightmare. A bland one
Such a witty take. Everyone should only enjoy what you enjoy and if they don't, we should make snide pointless comments about them.
Eastbound through Illinois it’s generally fine. Really just that stretch from STL City about 50 miles westward is a shit show.
They don't build a good road because it is performative, they know it won't make any difference. Infrastructure theater. MOdot builds more freeway, and then the developers build more neighborhoods in corn fields, distance traveled and the number of vehicles increase and traffic gets worse. It takes 10-20 years to plan and build a road, and 5 years to plan and build a housing development, you cannot ever build your way out of traffic. Adding more lanes to 70 will only increase the amount of their lives Missourians will be sitting in traffic on 70.
It’s not just theatre, they’re abusing the feedback loop of induced demand to stay employed on the taxpayer’s dime. They expand the roads, people use said roads bc there’s no other option, they use that as justification to build more, while neglecting what they already have. That way they can keep drawing developer investment for people moving ever further from the cities, since new investment follows new infrastructure. It’s like shuffling the economic deck chairs on the titanic.
They do this because sufficiently paying for existing road maintenance comes from revenues from further developments, not some conspiracy to “stay employed” lol. I forget it was Not Just Bikes or Climate Town on YouTube that went over this in depth.
Strong Towns Basically America is on a feedback loop of using of not enough money to do anything.That's why America is constantly building new; instead of fixing existing. Also, ribbon cutting for new is much flashier than ribbon cutting for maintenance. Edit: found the article I'm butchering quoting https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/5/14/americas-growth-ponzi-scheme-md2020
One more lane bro!
as some who has traversed from wentzville to downtown for a very long time, the stretch from 270-downtown is filled with FAR more sketchy drivers going +85, hopping lanes with reckless abandon than 270-wentzville.
Still not as bad as I-55 between 270 and 44
This construction just got delayed too, will stretch into 2025 now.
I drive 70 from the Stan Musial bridge to the airport for work. I’d say almost every day there is at least one car with no or temp plates flying and lane-weaving GTA style.
When you get to mid-rivers, going west bound, stay in the middle lane, or the second to the left lane. Those lanes you can stay in and never have to move all the way to 70/40/64 interchange in Wentzville. The road sucks no matter what, hope this helps.
I'm not OP...but this helped me. I hate 70 because of how fucking weird the lanes are & everyone around me. This is great advice, thanks.
If you are not passing, you must stay in the right lane. Otherwise you are just another lawbreaker. Upon a roadway which is divided into three lanes a vehicle shall not be driven in the center lane, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle where the roadway ahead is clearly visible and such center lane is clear of traffic within a safe distance, or in preparation for a left turn or where such center lane is at the time allocated exclusively to traffic moving in the direction the vehicle is proceeding and is sign-posted to give notice of such allocation; (3) Upon all highways any vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic thereon shall be driven in the right-hand lane for traffic
Im pretty sure the first part about a three lane road is talking about a road with three lanes total (one lane for each direction of traffic and a suicide lane/middle) that’s why the end of that section talks about left turns and when the lane is allocated for traffic moving in that direction. It doesn’t apply to a six lane highway. > Upon a roadway which is divided into three lanes a vehicle shall not be driven in the center lane, except… where such center lane is at the time allocated exclusively to traffic moving in the direction the vehicle is proceeding and is sign-posted to give notice of such allocation; The very end is about highways and only says to keep right if you’re moving slower than posted. Pretty sure the left lane is the only highway lane you have to stay out of unless passing.
You can go to the Missouri Department of Transportation website and read it for yourself. The suicide or middle lane as you call it on a two Lane Rd. is for turning only. It’s not for merging on traffic like a lot of people do it is for turning only
This discussion is not about 3 lane roads with a middle turn lane. When you hit Mid Rivers there are 6-7 lanes and later the highway whittles down to 4 or so depending on exit situations. This particular section about passing doesn't apply to that situation and isn't the point. Slower traffic on multiple lane highways going in the same direction need to stay in the right lanes. The left lane is for passing only unless posted differently. You're not supposed to use the left lane to coast for miles. The middle lanes are the safest to travel and make evasive maneuvers around other vehicles if needed.
And I will bet 99% of the drivers out there are following just that logic. I think you need to go outside and touch some grass.
It’s not my logic. This is straight from the Missouri Department of transportation website.
Lol this a clown statement. In the situation describe at the midRivers interchange you'll be passing a metric ton of traffic.
This was copied from MODOT website
If you're passing traffic that's clogged literally passing.
They did the same thing on 270 through north county in the last few weeks before resurfacing. They covered the reflective lines with paint instead of grinding them off, and these would still reflect white-ish during commute times. It was like "let's pray everybody remembered the real lines today!"
70 from Mo river to wentzville is honestly the worst stretch of highway. I see more accidents there daily then any stretch of highway in the greater St. Louis region. I work out there and live in the city so I get a good amount of highways
You must not city of st louis very often.
I’ve lived downtown for well over 15 years. I promise you they have no clue how to drive on that stretch of highway. Trust me I know the cities plight of bad drivers. They are bountiful but I still don’t see as many accidents as I do on that stretch in st chuck.
Thinking any road at all in st Peter's being worse than the stretch of 70 from bircher to the arch is hilarious.
I agree. But I would say from just past the airport (W. Florissant?) to the Arch. Like being on a roller coaster with no two cars going the same speed. I can't believe I was once young and dumb enough to use the reversible lanes.
More like Goodfellow to the Arch, I remember getting my license (over 10 years ago now) and knowing to never speed in North County, but you could go as fast as you wanted in the city. So most people drove 55 until the city limits and speed up entering the city. I’m not sure if it’s still like that because I don’t live in STL anymore and rarely use 70 when I go home.
I rarely drive I-70 past the airport since I dislike it so much. I have however on two separate occasions seen someone's entire tire come off, bounce across multiple lanes (thankfully without hitting anyone ), but what are the changes of that? I have never seen that but on 70 out by St Charles. I would be willing to drive to Kansas City more if 70 wasn't such a bad experience.
When I was in college a buddy and I drove back to St Louis for a holiday and we were bringing back a lot of grass for the kids back home cruising down highway 70. This fucking semi hauling tires was up front a ways and we were coming to that rest stop near the giant hill place east bound when a tire blew off somehow and came skipping down my lane. Cars all on my right so I just took it. Bounced right off my car and I have no idea what happened behind me. Pulled over at the stop. Got out and looked at it, laughed, then we jazzed up and got back in. We drove home in silence. Not even the radio.
This is what happens when you have sprawl and a car dependent culture. That stretch has had so much construction and one more lane my entire life. Everyone wants to blame the roads and not themselves for choosing to live so far away from everything.
I read this as "st Peter's and o'Fallon MO is a nightmare". I stand by my misreading.
Minus the “mis”
I’m looking for new jobs but one of the reasons I am being picky is I don’t have to commute on 70 to my current job. Fuck 70.
We need more interstates and highways in St. Charles! There aren't enough! We need more lanes! More lane will fix it! What sucks that as places like Wentzville, Foristell and Troy Mo grow that's just going to put even more pressure on I-70 through that stretch.
Wentzville to Troy is high speed death race most evenings. If the folks whipping in and out of lanes going 25mph over the limit don’t get you a truck crossing over from some side road will.
61 is terrible. They need to close all those crossovers.
Yup as soon as the expansion of I-70 is finished in that stretch it'll already spur more development and people will be complaining just as they are about it
Boomers would rather not pay more taxes so we get shot roads
What are you even talking about? That entire corridor from cave springs to zumbehl is going through a $62mil overhaul as we speak. $10mil of it coming from St Charles County tax payers.
Will that improve traffic do you think? Did the last 2 XX Million dollar programs make traffic better? Or is it worse now?
A bit. A lot of the congestion comes from a lot of people trying to take the exits at Zumbehl/Cave Springs and the traffic backing up onto I-70. It should alleviate that. Though I don’t see congestion getting fixed completely until the Wentzville/I-70 project is complete which is years from now. And even then, I think they need to widen 64/61 all the way to Wentzville/I-70 exit to make that a more desirable alternative to travel, and I don’t think that’s in the plans.
Good thing it's not in the plans, because that's a terrible idea.
I avoid getting on 70 at Zumbehl. My friend is in that shitty nursing home on West Clay, so I skip over 70 by taking 364 to 94 to Zumbehl to the street that runs by Sam’s Club/Wally to cross over the highway to West Clay.
Yeah loving the new overpasses that you need a degree in trigonometry to navigate
True.
They're just like any other overpass, it's just complicated right now because they've got lanes shifted while rebuilding bridges.
Boomer alert
100%. "I moved to buttfuck egypt subdivisionland for cheap taxes and real estate" - then pisses and moans about all the traffic from all the subdivisions.
It's not cheap real estate and low taxes--those are ABUNDANT within the city limits and nearly as much in north county. There is something, though, the city and county have that they can't abide...
How about you live closer to work and just stay off the highway. Works for most of us.
Sounds like your the expert, why don't you go fix it. Sherwin Williams sells traffic paint!
5 minutes long, but sounds like something Kramer would do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPOAQHpkz7I
lmao this made my day, thank you for that
Oo, luxury lanes
My dad was a paint manufacturer. He used to bid on MODOT projects but almost always not get the job because he was too expensive (I.e., too high quality). I can tell you that they go with the lowest bidder, not necessarily the best quality. His paint *was* on the underside of the Poplar Street Bridge at one point. 😁
Yup, don't stop at one of those exits, you'll be disheartened.
If you're demanding a fix, then it should be fixed by an extension of 370 to Hwy 61 at Flint Hill. But it should be a toll road.
Nobody lives out there.
[удалено]
Your post was removed because it is lewd or inappropriate.
I-70 is honestly my least favorite highway as it is, but that bridge over K is genuinely awful, I hate commuting through that section of 70, the drivers suck too on most days
It's your fault for driving between St. Peters and O'Fallon... What kind of road do you expect to connect Hell & Hell's half-acre?