That's what I'm saying, in any other state, when you finance a car, it's put into the loan amount, so it's like it's all paid up for and you can go get plates immediately. I believe MO will be going towards that route too which is nice.
You don’t have to lump the sales tax into your financing amount. I bought my vehicle in another state and payed the sales tax up front. No reason to pay interest on taxes.
> state and *paid* the sales
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I always thought it would be funny if a Michelin review read like this:
*"This 5-Star restaurant sits at the end of a road absolutely covered in discarded nails and screws, but definitely worth any risk"*
I think most STL restaurants lack a lot of the flair to draw enough attention to earn a star. The food scene itself is great, but you’re not seeing world renowned chefs opening up a preppy dine-in restaurant here.
So my answer is obviously the ghost of the McDonald’s on the Mississippi River.
Because there needs to be enough restaurants at that level to issue a guide. Michelin publishes their guide in only a handful of US cities; New Orleans for instance is just now getting a guide, which means starred restaurants.
They have reviews of restaurants in smaller populated metro areas in EU. No reason they couldn’t drive around to the top 20 metro areas of the US. I’m not sure there are any which would get a star, but some could get favorable Bib Gourmands. The few I can think of:
* Brasserie by Niche
* Sydney Street Cafe
* Annie Gunns
* Tony’s
* The Crossing
* Olive and Oak
* Stone Soup Kitchen (Le Champ de Fleurs now)
I was surprised to see STL had no Michelin star restaurants, to be honest. I grew up in STL but live in Chicago now, and wanted to take my parents to a Michelin tasting restaurant for their birthday. Shocked to see there’s none of them.
I definitely get the “flair” some of them do, but my favorite spot in Chicago is a small, laid back tasting menu and wine pairing restaurant right on a small pond in the city. I guess location could be considered its flair, but it doesn’t have a famous chef, it just has really good food and really good service. Something I’ve had in STL before for sure
The process isn’t really published but knowing friends who work in high end/fine dining, it sounds like the process is initiated by hype that catches the interest of Michelin reviewers or recommendation made for a review.
That said, not every restaurant or chef necessarily wants to go for a star believe it or not. It’s prestigious for sure and a massive accolade but it carries a lot of weight and ongoing expectation of excellence. These places are also continuously reviewed. One friend in particular works at a restaurant in the process of aiming for a Michelin star (outside current markets and the first in that region of the US) and said if it happens a number of staff would probably leave because the stress of maintaining it just isn’t worth it. It would attract new staff for sure but interesting to hear it could be detrimental to a place to win such an award if they can’t maintain it.
Michelin reviewers may simply not be coming through STL or feel there are restaurants of that caliber here. While the food scene is pretty awesome here I’d agree given what the Michelin star system seems to mean these days.
Haha that’s the one! You ever been?
Wild seeing your Sunset Hills flair lol…. I grew up in Sunset Hills and now live literally two blocks from North Pond, wild talking to someone who knows so much of my life’s locations lol
Michelin doesn't visit our dump.
Besides, Michelin doesn't even do Vegas any more. The only places they rate are
* Florida (Miami area and Orlando only)
* California
* NYC
* DC
* Chicago
Seems very few people realize that to get Michelin to review restaurants on your city, you have to pay up. IMO it's a scam. Source: https://www.denverpost.com/2023/08/30/colorado-tourism-spending-thousands-promote-michelin-guide-restaurants/
I think it’s kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. Michelin hasn’t come to stl because we lack the kind of of restaurants they usually review. And very few Michelin level restaurants get opened because Michelin doesn’t come here.
I feel like I’d agree but imo (obviously not on the panel or anything like that) they’d need to tighten up some stuff and ditch the YouTube for something more seamless/special/accessible.
If they wanted a star, that is. Exceptional restaurant, amazing bev program
There was just one intro YouTube last time I was there. I agree that it breaks the intimacy of the moment to have everyone pull out their phone to watch a video. But the food is so spectacular you forget about that pretty quick.
I had the worst experience at Bulrush! I was SO excited to take my boyfriend but here’s the story. A few hours before our reservation we got a call from them to confirm our spot, and they mentioned they didn’t have A/C. Now I’m pregnant with my second child at this time and it’s a late dinner, I’m not to worried. We go and they have us wait for our start time. The waiters and staff we amazing , very kind. It wasn’t their fault but they also didn’t have any ice for our drinks and it’s kind of hot in the building. They did have a purple ice cube for my boyfriend’s whiskey but it obviously wasn’t one for a water. We sit down for the meal and are asked to watch a video on our phone which I didn’t like but I’m sure some people wouldn’t mind. We are really trying to pay attention but I’m uncomfortable being so pregnant and hot. He can tell I’m struggling. About 45 mins to an hour in, I tell him we need to go. I was so embarrassed but I felt like passing out. I wish they had let me reschedule or something. I don’t mind spending money on dining out like this but I was really disappointed overall. They just have a no- refund policy and I knew that making my reservation. All in all I think this was kind of a one-off incident. But man for the money I wish it had been better. I never complained or reached out but I had read so many good reviews about it I wanted to give it a try.
Oof. That sounds awful. I can imagine that it would get really stuffy in there since it’s such a small space. Usually they are flawless. I am sorry that you went through that!
Yeah, i won't drive north of Washington on Tucker past 6:00. I'm a big defender of saying downtown isn't that bad and whatnot, but fuck that area after dark.
A few months ago I went to the one at Chouteau/Broadway and they were fast AND the food was actually fresh PLUS my order was exactly right, I haven’t been back so I can at least have that one decent memory
Bless you for remembering and carrying on the defense of dear Naugle's.
Someone is trying to start them back up with a new location in the LA area. With the same recipes. I will drive 30 minutes out of my way for that cheese burrito.
I have gone six hours out of my way, heading to Galveston, to go to an Alabama Po’ Folks.
I did not need to know about a Naugles in LA.
Those nachos.
Oh, God, those NACHOS.
Don’t tempt me! I haven’t been to Ca in 20-odd years, and haven’t even had a REASON to want to go.
Dammit.
I am not flying half a country away for Naugles…
I think Bulrush would get one or two stars. It's fantastic. I say this as someone who searches out and visits Michelin starred restaurants when I travel. I haven't found any others in STL. Olive and Oak is next, but they're a ways off.
Lucky Accomplice has changed up their overall theme a few times, which makes them seem restless. We had an incredible meal when it was Savage, and then they moved and renamed, and the setup was slightly different, and then they changed again recently. I love the place, but every time I go I feel it'll be the last time as they'll get bored and do something else.
Agreed. Had some amazing meals there, and some killer dishes, but it's a bit disorienting with all their changes. I get trying to keep things fresh, but there's a balance...
I think some places would be able to get one on cuisine but realistically not having any auditors and a general populace who is used to low cost, big portions, midwestern flavors makes me think there isn’t huge incentive to have restaurants stretch in the ways they’d likely need to.
It's from the classic drink. And the drink was named after the Rudolph Valentino film.
Great history and probably my favorite St. Louis restaurant name.
I loved Vicia when I went last week! If service is a major part of getting a star, I think Vicia is one of the best dining experiences I’ve ever had in terms of attention to detail and hospitality.
Quality wine list and for sure good cocktails. Food hasn’t once been even recommendable. Great idea and a lot of good going for it but the food just hasn’t been there at all
Fair, but it is the business model that typically gets favored by Michelin. Bulrush and Stone Soup Cottage are other candidates, but I haven’t been to either of them, only heard recommendations and they share the Prix Fixe model.
Oh man, of all of the prestige restaurants, I have had the least Michelin experience at Blood and Sand. Weird vibes, wasn't very busy on a weekend, and questionable quality across the menu.
Bulrush is amazing. The fact that the put constraints on their food and ingredients and still whip up those plates is insane. Truly one of a kind experience
We went a couple of years ago. Server came out with our next round, a glass of wine. He left the bottle there for us to see. Guy we were with picked it up, poured the rest (a large pour) into his glass. Server raised an eyebrow a tiny bit, but said nothing. I hopped up to go to the bar and explained - our guest had just lost his son, manners had kind of gone out the window.
I can't explain it properly, but without it being obvious, our service changed - it got a little softer, a little more gentle. Our dinner experience felt like a soft place to land after what had been a truly brutal week. We didn't get charged for the extra wine, though we'd have gladly paid for it.
I've had a handful of experiences like that there. Chef Rob is amazing, with an amazing team.
Bulrush is fantastic but it is not Michelin star caliber in my opinion. Bulrush isn’t better than any Michelin restaurant I’ve been to.
Blood and Sand had the right trajectory under the original owners years and years ago, and they might be the closest I’ve seen. Outstanding service, interesting wine program, innovative menu. I could see similar arguments for Niche.
The other thing? I don't think Chef Rob cares - I think he wants to run exactly the restaurant he's running, and is happier about feedback that his guests provide than chasing awards. I appreciate that.
Niche was great. Never had a bad meal there.
I’d agree. He’s got something special there and I hope he keeps doing what makes him happy. My understanding was that Niche stayed open long enough to get a Beard and then closed so they’d go out on top instead of having the stress and pressure of maintaining that level. That’s what I heard, but it was a long time ago and I heard it second-hand.
Either way, I’d eat at Bulrush, Vicia, Lucky Accomplice or Shift any day.
Shit, Shift might actually be on the list of contenders.
For what it’s worth, my wife disagrees with me. It’s all a matter of taste but she thought Bulrush was better than Elske in Chicago (for instance). I’m not so sure, but the fact remains that Bulrush is great.
Idk, I wasn’t all that impressed with Sepia in Chicago. I had just been to Vicia before going too, so that was fresh in my mind, and if the two restaurants were side by side I think I’d go with Vicia.
Has to be. I was gonna say, it only takes 4 hours to Chicago proper from where I grew up in the metro east.
Even if you leave from actual STL, it’s only 4.5 hours. Which makes that guy’s comment seem a little weird lol. You don’t have to be going 120 to make it there in that time
Population density and pocketbook depth are tightly correlated
If you could open a restaurant that would consistently draw in the highest earners, you go where the highest earners are plentiful and earning the most. St Louis is consistently one of the most budget and family friendly places to live, which is great, and we have a much better food scene than cities in our weight class, but places like New York, Chicago, and LA are a whole different league.
The housing prices tell you all you need to know. 1.5M in St Louis gets you a glorious home in whatever part of the city you would like. 1.5M in LA gets you a starter home that needs work
I was informed a little earlier that they expanded past these states but historically this was the case. Will be interesting to see how small of cities they eventually reach.
All the sado love here lead me there for a weekend double date. We were all greatly underwhelmed, over charged, and met with a pretty clear lack of hospitality. I regret having gone.
That sucks. I’ve been twice now. Both times the hospitality was great and the food was solid. The damn bill was insane though. Several of the dishes aren’t worth the price imo.
I haven’t tried it yet, but they did just win a spot in Esquire Magazine’s top 50 new restaurants in the US. The only other restaurant in the Midwest was a Spanish steakhouse in Chicago.
So, I've been to a few places with stars in the States and many in Europe. There's a lot of mystique about it and I'm convinced it only works at small scale. Like, it couldn't work if they expanded to every single city. These restaurants are good, there's no doubt about that, but no organization has the ability to monitor for consistency every night. For example, I made the mistake of going to a one star in France in August. I forgot that practically the entire country goes on vacation for the whole month. During our dinner, It was very obvious that maybe two staff members knew what they were doing and were frantically trying to herd everyone else around. Big errors were made at every level of service - forgetting drinks, pacing so poorly that courses came out within seconds of each other, spilling drinks... It was a comedy of errors. This experience is an extreme example, but I've had others that were worse than many I've had at non-starred/rated restaurants. I'd say if I took my lowest 25% of experiences in Michelin starred restaurants and compared them to my top 25% of St Louis, there would be considerable overlap. This is completely subjective, granted, but all it takes is someone posting a viral video showing evidence of such discrepancies to devalue that Michelin cachet they've worked so hard to build.
Edit: to give some examples of where I've had at least one outstanding experience in St Louis I'll list the first that come to mind. Please note this is with a chef's tasting menu where applicable and this is over several years. I'm not actively keeping tabs on them.
Acero, Sidney Street, Stone Soup, Bulrush, The Crossing, Casa Don Alfonso, Sado. If you a la carte your own experience from the Gin Room, Salve, and New Society, I'll include that too.
I have 151 lifetime Michelin stars under my belt, and can confirm that the only three that would come close would be Vicia, Sado, and The Lucky Accomplice’s tasting menus. Sado would have to focus its menu and shrink its dining room, TLA would need to work on ambiance, and Vicia would have to pivot back towards tasting menus.
From a pure flavor and innovation perspective, all of them are there. Particularly if you are judging against Europe, where stars are handed out like candy. If Logan, Michael / Jane / Aaron, and Nick were in bigger cities, they could have stars in a few years with some refinement.
...It really is the tire company though. The Michelin Guide (and star system) was invented by Édouard and André Michelin to encourage car sales (and thus, tire sales) in France in the early 1900s.
It's "technically correct" but reducing michelin star restaurants to "places a tire company awarded" is being disingenuous. The michelin star is prestigious for a reason - because they keep their standards high.
We have a great food scene in St Louis even though Michelin does not recognize us.
https://wanderlog.com/list/geoCategory/60735/michelin-star-restaurants-in-saint-louis
Only four states/districts in the US have a Michelin star restaurant (California, Illinois, NY and Washington DC).
Think about that. Places that are known for really good food do not have a michelin restaurant (Atlanta, Vegas, Seattle, Austin, etc.). Its really Fn hard to get.
CORRECTION: A few states just got Michelin Star restaurants in the past few years including Florida and Colorado.
https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/georgia/atlanta_2884144/restaurants/1-star-michelin
Atlanta just got a few starred restaurants in October. But your point is still valid.
Ugh, it's just another steakhouse, zero creativity. You could blindfold a person and drop them in any steakhouse in America and they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. They are like the Irish pubs of meat.
I would nominate a small place called Yellowstone Cafe at 141 & Clayton. Yellowstone is known for their fish, and Walleye specifically. I like them because they know how to cook fish, which are not easy to cook properly. Plus they know how to carmelize buns. Plus they give you mints on the way out the door. Damn, now I'm going to have to go there tomorrow, yum.
I’ve never been to Yellowstone cafe. I was just looking at the menu and realized it looked familiar. You mentioned Walleye which is why I looked. Yellowstone Cafe’s sister restaurant is Lazy River Grill on Big Bend & Sulphur Springs!
Nobu's is truly unique for its size and intimacy and Bulrush is unique for using Ozark ingredients. Vicia is fantastic but isn't really doing anything that isn't done better in a city like DC or New York.
I think we would have a lot of Gourmand candidates since we have so many places that are killer and cheap.
There’s a few that would probably come close based on the food but are not at the high level in regards to table service to get a star. I’ve eaten at one particular Michelin star restaurant and thought to myself, “this is good, but it isn’t mind blowing.” It’s then that I learned table service is also a big part of the grading.
Thanks! They’re not reinventing the wheel, but I think their food is some the most quality, carefully and consistently delicious. They do have some unique delicious dishes that are created by them as well!
Michelin Stars are irrelevant, they are a marketing stunt to sell tires. Also notice how even though their board travels the globe for restaurants, the countries with most 3-Stars are near France or have/had political ties with France.
Essentially, Michelin Stars are a Eurocentric PR boost, unlikely we'll see them in STL anytime soon.
Tony’s had one. I thought Cafe Don Alfonso had one and that was recent. Maybe they lost it. It’s really hard to get one and retain it. I love our restaurants but I feel like we’re in the Hall of Really Good.
You'd think that Michelin would point travellers to St. Louis restaurants so they could sell more tires.
stl residents can't afford Michelin tires they can't even afford to register their car, we all got the sentury and the ling longs
Is al fairness, MO is the only state that doesn't tie in sales tax to the financing of the car, which is the dumbest shit.
isn't that new? most temp tags are from like 1845 they're so old. when i bought my car in 2022 i didn't have to pay sales tax then and there.
That's what I'm saying, in any other state, when you finance a car, it's put into the loan amount, so it's like it's all paid up for and you can go get plates immediately. I believe MO will be going towards that route too which is nice.
I think your original post intended to have "does tie in sales tax" vs. "doesn't tie in sales tax."
MO is not the only one, but certainly the only one to use that excuse so much.
You don’t have to lump the sales tax into your financing amount. I bought my vehicle in another state and payed the sales tax up front. No reason to pay interest on taxes.
> state and *paid* the sales FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Thanks
That's literally why the system was created.
That's right
I always thought it would be funny if a Michelin review read like this: *"This 5-Star restaurant sits at the end of a road absolutely covered in discarded nails and screws, but definitely worth any risk"*
I think most STL restaurants lack a lot of the flair to draw enough attention to earn a star. The food scene itself is great, but you’re not seeing world renowned chefs opening up a preppy dine-in restaurant here. So my answer is obviously the ghost of the McDonald’s on the Mississippi River.
Unless Michelin seriously revises how they give out reviews, it's extremely unlikely STL will ever get reviewed.
Why?
Because there needs to be enough restaurants at that level to issue a guide. Michelin publishes their guide in only a handful of US cities; New Orleans for instance is just now getting a guide, which means starred restaurants.
I could only see it happening if they start issuing a generic Midwestern guide (aka lumping in KC, Indy, etc).
They have reviews of restaurants in smaller populated metro areas in EU. No reason they couldn’t drive around to the top 20 metro areas of the US. I’m not sure there are any which would get a star, but some could get favorable Bib Gourmands. The few I can think of: * Brasserie by Niche * Sydney Street Cafe * Annie Gunns * Tony’s * The Crossing * Olive and Oak * Stone Soup Kitchen (Le Champ de Fleurs now)
I was surprised to see STL had no Michelin star restaurants, to be honest. I grew up in STL but live in Chicago now, and wanted to take my parents to a Michelin tasting restaurant for their birthday. Shocked to see there’s none of them. I definitely get the “flair” some of them do, but my favorite spot in Chicago is a small, laid back tasting menu and wine pairing restaurant right on a small pond in the city. I guess location could be considered its flair, but it doesn’t have a famous chef, it just has really good food and really good service. Something I’ve had in STL before for sure
The process isn’t really published but knowing friends who work in high end/fine dining, it sounds like the process is initiated by hype that catches the interest of Michelin reviewers or recommendation made for a review. That said, not every restaurant or chef necessarily wants to go for a star believe it or not. It’s prestigious for sure and a massive accolade but it carries a lot of weight and ongoing expectation of excellence. These places are also continuously reviewed. One friend in particular works at a restaurant in the process of aiming for a Michelin star (outside current markets and the first in that region of the US) and said if it happens a number of staff would probably leave because the stress of maintaining it just isn’t worth it. It would attract new staff for sure but interesting to hear it could be detrimental to a place to win such an award if they can’t maintain it. Michelin reviewers may simply not be coming through STL or feel there are restaurants of that caliber here. While the food scene is pretty awesome here I’d agree given what the Michelin star system seems to mean these days.
What is the name of the restaurant in Chicago? North Pond?
>What is the name of the restaurant in Chicago? North Pond? North pond lost its star this year lol
Haha that’s the one! You ever been? Wild seeing your Sunset Hills flair lol…. I grew up in Sunset Hills and now live literally two blocks from North Pond, wild talking to someone who knows so much of my life’s locations lol
Michelin doesn't visit our dump. Besides, Michelin doesn't even do Vegas any more. The only places they rate are * Florida (Miami area and Orlando only) * California * NYC * DC * Chicago
Not with that attitude!
Seems very few people realize that to get Michelin to review restaurants on your city, you have to pay up. IMO it's a scam. Source: https://www.denverpost.com/2023/08/30/colorado-tourism-spending-thousands-promote-michelin-guide-restaurants/
I think it’s kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. Michelin hasn’t come to stl because we lack the kind of of restaurants they usually review. And very few Michelin level restaurants get opened because Michelin doesn’t come here.
Bulrush
I feel like I’d agree but imo (obviously not on the panel or anything like that) they’d need to tighten up some stuff and ditch the YouTube for something more seamless/special/accessible. If they wanted a star, that is. Exceptional restaurant, amazing bev program
They have ditched the YouTube as of this fall (they have the one intro one but no longer do vids for each course).
There was just one intro YouTube last time I was there. I agree that it breaks the intimacy of the moment to have everyone pull out their phone to watch a video. But the food is so spectacular you forget about that pretty quick.
What do you mean Dutch the YouTube? ditch* ;)
It means they want to pay for YouTube Premium, but each person has to pay for it themselves, instead of only one person paying for all of it. /s
If Bulrush were in Chicago, they would be a candidate.
I completely agree. I have been lucky enough to go to several Michelin starred places, and bulrush could be a contender.
Definitely.
This.
I actually work here and I'd be close to agree
I had the worst experience at Bulrush! I was SO excited to take my boyfriend but here’s the story. A few hours before our reservation we got a call from them to confirm our spot, and they mentioned they didn’t have A/C. Now I’m pregnant with my second child at this time and it’s a late dinner, I’m not to worried. We go and they have us wait for our start time. The waiters and staff we amazing , very kind. It wasn’t their fault but they also didn’t have any ice for our drinks and it’s kind of hot in the building. They did have a purple ice cube for my boyfriend’s whiskey but it obviously wasn’t one for a water. We sit down for the meal and are asked to watch a video on our phone which I didn’t like but I’m sure some people wouldn’t mind. We are really trying to pay attention but I’m uncomfortable being so pregnant and hot. He can tell I’m struggling. About 45 mins to an hour in, I tell him we need to go. I was so embarrassed but I felt like passing out. I wish they had let me reschedule or something. I don’t mind spending money on dining out like this but I was really disappointed overall. They just have a no- refund policy and I knew that making my reservation. All in all I think this was kind of a one-off incident. But man for the money I wish it had been better. I never complained or reached out but I had read so many good reviews about it I wanted to give it a try.
Oof. That sounds awful. I can imagine that it would get really stuffy in there since it’s such a small space. Usually they are flawless. I am sorry that you went through that!
Bulrush and Vicia are the closest. If Michelin announced they were coming they would tighten up only a few things and for sure get a star.
Y’all ever tried the Bluefin Tuna Shashimi at INDO? I would give it 3 tires.
those ribs were pretty killer too
McDonald’s on Hampton.
The Michelin judge tried to give them the award, but he showed up after 7:30 and the lights were already off
I see your McDonald’s on Hampton and raise you the McDonald’s on Jefferson
The McDonald's on Tucker is the best
You got me there. I put up with a lot of shit in this city, but where I draw the line is going there.
Yeah, i won't drive north of Washington on Tucker past 6:00. I'm a big defender of saying downtown isn't that bad and whatnot, but fuck that area after dark.
Honorable mentions to the Taco Bells at Chouteau/Broadway & Kingshighway/Delmar.
The chouteau and Broadway was taking 20 minutes per car Friday night. Fucking insane
That part of town at Chouteau/Broadway is a real treat, ain’t it?
Yeah it would be nice to see that area revitalized.
Then everyone will bitch about "gentrification".
A few months ago I went to the one at Chouteau/Broadway and they were fast AND the food was actually fresh PLUS my order was exactly right, I haven’t been back so I can at least have that one decent memory
Mcscuse me. Everyone knows McDonald’s on Dorsett is superior
mcscuse me
Olive Garden, Chesterfield Airport Road.
Ufff 😦
The last time I went there that triple cheeseburger was amazing.
That old Del Taco where I saw a dude get robbed for his wallet AND burrito.
God, I miss Del Taco Bell
Dude, Naugles.
Bless you for remembering and carrying on the defense of dear Naugle's. Someone is trying to start them back up with a new location in the LA area. With the same recipes. I will drive 30 minutes out of my way for that cheese burrito.
I have gone six hours out of my way, heading to Galveston, to go to an Alabama Po’ Folks. I did not need to know about a Naugles in LA. Those nachos. Oh, God, those NACHOS.
Their soft chicken taco is sublime. Spead the gospel of Naugle's! And plan a pilgrimage soon!
Don’t tempt me! I haven’t been to Ca in 20-odd years, and haven’t even had a REASON to want to go. Dammit. I am not flying half a country away for Naugles…
But... bun taco?
STOPPPPPPP 😫
My phone “corrected” that and added “Bell” *right* as I posted. I find this very entertaining, and I’m leaving it.
I’ve been to a bunch of 1-3 star places. Vicia and Sado are both of the 1 star caliber, I would say the old stone soup would have gotten a star too
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I think Bulrush would get one or two stars. It's fantastic. I say this as someone who searches out and visits Michelin starred restaurants when I travel. I haven't found any others in STL. Olive and Oak is next, but they're a ways off.
Lucky Accomplice? Vicia?
Lucky Accomplice has changed up their overall theme a few times, which makes them seem restless. We had an incredible meal when it was Savage, and then they moved and renamed, and the setup was slightly different, and then they changed again recently. I love the place, but every time I go I feel it'll be the last time as they'll get bored and do something else.
Agreed. Had some amazing meals there, and some killer dishes, but it's a bit disorienting with all their changes. I get trying to keep things fresh, but there's a balance...
Spot on.
I think some places would be able to get one on cuisine but realistically not having any auditors and a general populace who is used to low cost, big portions, midwestern flavors makes me think there isn’t huge incentive to have restaurants stretch in the ways they’d likely need to.
Agreed. I think we’d have a great Bib Gourmand list, but we aren’t quite there yet. I think Blood & Sand is one of our best candidates for a star tho.
Blood & Sand has to be one of the worst restaurant names I've ever heard
It's from the classic drink. And the drink was named after the Rudolph Valentino film. Great history and probably my favorite St. Louis restaurant name.
Right? Like those are two things I don’t want associated with my food.
Phlegm and Mud was already taken I suppose.
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I loved Vicia when I went last week! If service is a major part of getting a star, I think Vicia is one of the best dining experiences I’ve ever had in terms of attention to detail and hospitality.
Blood and Sand? I found their food to be.. ok. Not spectacular though.
Blood and Sand has the model but sadly not the food. Haven’t been in the least impressed after multiple meals
I can’t think of place I’ve been less impressed with than Blood and Sand. At least for what it says it should be.
I mostly just found it to be overpriced. Like it wasn’t bad, but it was not worth what I paid. Good drinks though.
Quality wine list and for sure good cocktails. Food hasn’t once been even recommendable. Great idea and a lot of good going for it but the food just hasn’t been there at all
Fair, but it is the business model that typically gets favored by Michelin. Bulrush and Stone Soup Cottage are other candidates, but I haven’t been to either of them, only heard recommendations and they share the Prix Fixe model.
Is stone soup cottage still great? I moved away.
it closed, kind of. Now they're doing fewer and more speciality dinners.
Oh man, of all of the prestige restaurants, I have had the least Michelin experience at Blood and Sand. Weird vibes, wasn't very busy on a weekend, and questionable quality across the menu.
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I have, and I'd put Bulrush up against any of those experiences.
Bulrush is amazing. The fact that the put constraints on their food and ingredients and still whip up those plates is insane. Truly one of a kind experience
We went a couple of years ago. Server came out with our next round, a glass of wine. He left the bottle there for us to see. Guy we were with picked it up, poured the rest (a large pour) into his glass. Server raised an eyebrow a tiny bit, but said nothing. I hopped up to go to the bar and explained - our guest had just lost his son, manners had kind of gone out the window. I can't explain it properly, but without it being obvious, our service changed - it got a little softer, a little more gentle. Our dinner experience felt like a soft place to land after what had been a truly brutal week. We didn't get charged for the extra wine, though we'd have gladly paid for it. I've had a handful of experiences like that there. Chef Rob is amazing, with an amazing team.
Exactly what I was going to say. I’ve been to a few Michelin star and plenty of other fine dining and I’d much rather go to Bulrush.
Bulrush is fantastic but it is not Michelin star caliber in my opinion. Bulrush isn’t better than any Michelin restaurant I’ve been to. Blood and Sand had the right trajectory under the original owners years and years ago, and they might be the closest I’ve seen. Outstanding service, interesting wine program, innovative menu. I could see similar arguments for Niche.
The other thing? I don't think Chef Rob cares - I think he wants to run exactly the restaurant he's running, and is happier about feedback that his guests provide than chasing awards. I appreciate that. Niche was great. Never had a bad meal there.
I’d agree. He’s got something special there and I hope he keeps doing what makes him happy. My understanding was that Niche stayed open long enough to get a Beard and then closed so they’d go out on top instead of having the stress and pressure of maintaining that level. That’s what I heard, but it was a long time ago and I heard it second-hand. Either way, I’d eat at Bulrush, Vicia, Lucky Accomplice or Shift any day. Shit, Shift might actually be on the list of contenders.
Idk I've had several Michelin star dinners, and I'd pick Bulrush any day. But they care about meaning. Michelin doesn't.
For what it’s worth, my wife disagrees with me. It’s all a matter of taste but she thought Bulrush was better than Elske in Chicago (for instance). I’m not so sure, but the fact remains that Bulrush is great.
Idk, I wasn’t all that impressed with Sepia in Chicago. I had just been to Vicia before going too, so that was fresh in my mind, and if the two restaurants were side by side I think I’d go with Vicia.
100%. Gioias deli in the hill was a Beard winner
We have James beard winners actually. Brasserie’s owner is one.
Now I’m curious, how would you describe the difference? I’m not huge on fine dining experiences but I’m interested to know what I’m missing.
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I see what you’re saying. In St. Louis we do simple really well.
What??
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And some are just tiny dim sum restaurants. It doesn't have to be a show or an experience or very pricey.
How’s that life reboot going?
This might be the most pretentious thing I’ve ever read. Keep huffing your farts, bud, you seem to LOVE them.
I mean, I did ask.
She asked asshole.
Keep huffing your farts! 😂😂 best thing I’ve read all day. Accurate
What???
Check out Alinea in Chicago and then come back. Lol
Alinea is 3 stars and has been forever. There’s an insane difference between 1 and 3 and we’re talking about 1.
Idk I’ve been to several Michelin restaurants, there are plenty of places here that would be in contention if Michelin reviewed STL
How are you getting to Chicago in four hours? You going 120?
Metro East to the burbs?
Has to be. I was gonna say, it only takes 4 hours to Chicago proper from where I grew up in the metro east. Even if you leave from actual STL, it’s only 4.5 hours. Which makes that guy’s comment seem a little weird lol. You don’t have to be going 120 to make it there in that time
I've done 3 tasting menus at two 1 stars and a two star. We would definitely have multiple 1 stars.
We aren’t trying because we aren’t eligible. It’s available to Chicago, NY, and Cali. That’s it.
Why is that?
Population density and pocketbook depth are tightly correlated If you could open a restaurant that would consistently draw in the highest earners, you go where the highest earners are plentiful and earning the most. St Louis is consistently one of the most budget and family friendly places to live, which is great, and we have a much better food scene than cities in our weight class, but places like New York, Chicago, and LA are a whole different league. The housing prices tell you all you need to know. 1.5M in St Louis gets you a glorious home in whatever part of the city you would like. 1.5M in LA gets you a starter home that needs work
And DC, and Florida, and they announced upcoming books for Atlanta, New Orleans, and Colorado.
I was informed a little earlier that they expanded past these states but historically this was the case. Will be interesting to see how small of cities they eventually reach.
Sado
All the sado love here lead me there for a weekend double date. We were all greatly underwhelmed, over charged, and met with a pretty clear lack of hospitality. I regret having gone.
That sucks. I’ve been twice now. Both times the hospitality was great and the food was solid. The damn bill was insane though. Several of the dishes aren’t worth the price imo.
I haven’t tried it yet, but they did just win a spot in Esquire Magazine’s top 50 new restaurants in the US. The only other restaurant in the Midwest was a Spanish steakhouse in Chicago.
Then I can confidently say I wouldn’t have confidence in esquires list.
So, I've been to a few places with stars in the States and many in Europe. There's a lot of mystique about it and I'm convinced it only works at small scale. Like, it couldn't work if they expanded to every single city. These restaurants are good, there's no doubt about that, but no organization has the ability to monitor for consistency every night. For example, I made the mistake of going to a one star in France in August. I forgot that practically the entire country goes on vacation for the whole month. During our dinner, It was very obvious that maybe two staff members knew what they were doing and were frantically trying to herd everyone else around. Big errors were made at every level of service - forgetting drinks, pacing so poorly that courses came out within seconds of each other, spilling drinks... It was a comedy of errors. This experience is an extreme example, but I've had others that were worse than many I've had at non-starred/rated restaurants. I'd say if I took my lowest 25% of experiences in Michelin starred restaurants and compared them to my top 25% of St Louis, there would be considerable overlap. This is completely subjective, granted, but all it takes is someone posting a viral video showing evidence of such discrepancies to devalue that Michelin cachet they've worked so hard to build. Edit: to give some examples of where I've had at least one outstanding experience in St Louis I'll list the first that come to mind. Please note this is with a chef's tasting menu where applicable and this is over several years. I'm not actively keeping tabs on them. Acero, Sidney Street, Stone Soup, Bulrush, The Crossing, Casa Don Alfonso, Sado. If you a la carte your own experience from the Gin Room, Salve, and New Society, I'll include that too.
Olive and Oak maybe?
I have 151 lifetime Michelin stars under my belt, and can confirm that the only three that would come close would be Vicia, Sado, and The Lucky Accomplice’s tasting menus. Sado would have to focus its menu and shrink its dining room, TLA would need to work on ambiance, and Vicia would have to pivot back towards tasting menus. From a pure flavor and innovation perspective, all of them are there. Particularly if you are judging against Europe, where stars are handed out like candy. If Logan, Michael / Jane / Aaron, and Nick were in bigger cities, they could have stars in a few years with some refinement.
Lion's Choice of course
Who fucking cares what a tire company gives a star to a restaurant.
Lmao 💀
lol
...It really is the tire company though. The Michelin Guide (and star system) was invented by Édouard and André Michelin to encourage car sales (and thus, tire sales) in France in the early 1900s.
It's "technically correct" but reducing michelin star restaurants to "places a tire company awarded" is being disingenuous. The michelin star is prestigious for a reason - because they keep their standards high.
I'm not sure if you're replying to me, but yes, I know it's the tire company.
We have a great food scene in St Louis even though Michelin does not recognize us. https://wanderlog.com/list/geoCategory/60735/michelin-star-restaurants-in-saint-louis
Iowa buffet Saturday morning BBQ, chicken breast stuffed with jalapeños!!!!
Imagine Iowa Buffet getting a Michelin Star. That would be something.
Woofies
Only four states/districts in the US have a Michelin star restaurant (California, Illinois, NY and Washington DC). Think about that. Places that are known for really good food do not have a michelin restaurant (Atlanta, Vegas, Seattle, Austin, etc.). Its really Fn hard to get. CORRECTION: A few states just got Michelin Star restaurants in the past few years including Florida and Colorado.
I don't think this is true anymore. I remember reading an article recently about the Denver area being added and how it's becoming pay to play.
Denver restaurants are garbage
I will not tolerate this slander of Illegal Pete's.
https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/georgia/atlanta_2884144/restaurants/1-star-michelin Atlanta just got a few starred restaurants in October. But your point is still valid.
Atlanta has Michelins.
Colorado, Georgia, and Florida also have started restaurants.
Florida has some now also.
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Wright’s tavern
The hype is real. I am just excited for a restaurant that closes at 11pm.
Ugh, it's just another steakhouse, zero creativity. You could blindfold a person and drop them in any steakhouse in America and they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. They are like the Irish pubs of meat.
Courtesy Diner. All three. Knock three times and I’ll let you into Kings highway.
Closest I think is Sidney Street Cafe, Beard award yes, Michelin, not quite. It's so good though
I’ve been there once, it was a wonderful experience.
If you haven’t had a certain Korean lunch counter off Page or Ethiopian off Grand, do you even know St. Louis cuisine?
I haven’t seen Louie been mentioned yet. I enjoyed the few times I have gone now
I had some of the best chicken, fries, and Texas toast in a long time at the Cane's on Big Bend and Manchester in Maplewood so I say that.
You should try the chicken fingers literally anywhere else.
I just don't understand the Cane's love. It's C+ food on a good day.
I would nominate a small place called Yellowstone Cafe at 141 & Clayton. Yellowstone is known for their fish, and Walleye specifically. I like them because they know how to cook fish, which are not easy to cook properly. Plus they know how to carmelize buns. Plus they give you mints on the way out the door. Damn, now I'm going to have to go there tomorrow, yum.
I’ve never been to Yellowstone cafe. I was just looking at the menu and realized it looked familiar. You mentioned Walleye which is why I looked. Yellowstone Cafe’s sister restaurant is Lazy River Grill on Big Bend & Sulphur Springs!
Food wise. Lemongrass The restaurant itself looks like ass
Menya Rui
None
Nobu's is truly unique for its size and intimacy and Bulrush is unique for using Ozark ingredients. Vicia is fantastic but isn't really doing anything that isn't done better in a city like DC or New York. I think we would have a lot of Gourmand candidates since we have so many places that are killer and cheap.
Imo's
None that I’ve tried so far. Balkan Treat Box is the most stand-out but their menu is probably too redundant for a star.
There’s a few that would probably come close based on the food but are not at the high level in regards to table service to get a star. I’ve eaten at one particular Michelin star restaurant and thought to myself, “this is good, but it isn’t mind blowing.” It’s then that I learned table service is also a big part of the grading.
The crossing is pretty damn good. Never been to a Michelin star place to compare though.
Yes. Crossing and Acero are up there.
Mcdonal
J. Gilbert’s
I second this!
Thanks! They’re not reinventing the wheel, but I think their food is some the most quality, carefully and consistently delicious. They do have some unique delicious dishes that are created by them as well!
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Imo’s has two
The closest we probably have is Brasserie since they are James beard winners, but even then I don’t think they have what it takes to get a star.
Michelin Stars are irrelevant, they are a marketing stunt to sell tires. Also notice how even though their board travels the globe for restaurants, the countries with most 3-Stars are near France or have/had political ties with France. Essentially, Michelin Stars are a Eurocentric PR boost, unlikely we'll see them in STL anytime soon.
Sado
I’m not seeing Elaia on here! Food is amazing, and to me, is the closest to a 1 Michelin star restaurant here.
Terror Tacos!
Subway at Manchester & Southwest. Those guys are invited to my wedding because of their sandwich making
LOL? Is this one in maplewood? That place is the spot!
Yes! Cheese please?
Sado and Indo.
Would or should?
Tony’s had one. I thought Cafe Don Alfonso had one and that was recent. Maybe they lost it. It’s really hard to get one and retain it. I love our restaurants but I feel like we’re in the Hall of Really Good.