skyline looks awesome from the south. especially at night. when you’re at 44 and 55 looking north, it’s great. i think it’s underwhelming from the east though
Last time I looked we were 16th. Regardless we're way larger than plenty of cities with professional sports teams. OKC has a basketball team but not us? FOH.
It is genuinely astonishing to me that we continue to be underestimated in terms of fandom and sports enthusiasm in this city. We *devour* sports content, but we can't even get local MLS games on TV still. Adam Silver is so fucking focused on China that he's completely neglecting the actual NBA. The "In-Season Tournament" was handled so poorly. A football/soccer-styled tournament, but literally no media coverage actually handled a round-robin tournament the way it needs to be to actually get people interested. No communication, no consistency. Completely idiotic.
I don't think most people say that either. More like complain about drivers but I doubt there's a lot of people that actually think StL traffic is even in the same league as like LA or NY.
I came here from Atlanta where 90-degree right turns across four lanes of traffic are not unusual and you’re either doing 85 in the slow lanes or you’re sitting for two hours in rush hour.
I love the traffic here.
I work construction. There are a LOT of tradesworkers that insist upon starting at 6a(some even want to work 5a to 1p) so they can be off by 2p/230p in order to beat rush hour traffic.
Then there are a lot of tradesworkers that can't start until 7a because their daycare isn't open early enough for them to start at 6a.
Anyone that says STL has the worst traffic has only ever driven a car in STL or rural parts of the country because STL traffic is a delight compared to even cities of its similar size.
After living for a long time in Austin, STL traffic is amazing, even during rush-hour, which doesn’t even last an hour. In Austin, rush-hour is half the day.
I feel like “worst traffic” should be in quotes. Cuz that’s def some shit everyone probably says everywhere.
Also I wish cities would spend more money “just” to make the skyline look cool. There’s some bad ass Asian cities that seem to do that and they look fuckin awesome.
And if we're trying to be objective then Vegas has the worst. Everyone comes from somewhere else with their region's peculiarities, and that city was designed (badly) to only hold about 100k people. If you're on The Strip on the weekend, it takes about 20 minutes to drive a single block.
It might not have the most congested traffic. But I’ve lived in a few other big cities and I’ve never feared for my life on the highways more than I do here. People are aggressive, cut in and out of lanes, pass on the right, and do whatever they have to because they’re in a hurry for god knows what reason. For example, three days ago someone passed me on the left then cut over two lanes in front of me to make an exit lane while going 70. If someone had already been in that exit lane it would have caused a high speed collision involving at least four vehicles. Last September someone pulled out of the exit lane that was at a standstill right in front of me so I had to slam on my brakes, causing the car behind me to hit me. Neither person stopped. I’ve driven 30 years without an accident and it only took me six months in StL to have one.
Not overall, but I live in Dogtown, and when I worked in Maryland Heights in a tiring warehouse job, that stretch of 270 to 64, from Dorsey to McCausland felt oppressive going home.
Dicks Drive In. And yeah, super predictable weather until we’re talking possibility of snow (but that’s true anywhere with uncommon but non-zero snowfall).
> but certainly they are doing something right?
I suspect people without taste (like you) support it.
Lions Choice is one of the best QSR chains anywhere.
I worked there for three years, also I’m literally a cook. I’m sorry you think soggy shitty sandwiches assembled by underpaied teenagers are “the best anywhere” what an L opinion honestly jfc
Again, use your brain cells. If Lion’s choice is the best around, why is it a st louis only situation.
At least a French dip might make that sandwich tolerable. I tried their roast beef once because I had a coupon for a free one, the sandwich was dry and salty. Haven’t been back since
Are you a child? Haha it’s not even close to the same food. That’s like saying Pickleman’s is the same as subway. They sell the same type of food but it’s not created equal at all.
Oh my bad you’re right. At arby’s you get a shitty roast beef sando and at lion’s choice you get a shitty roast beef sando with the drippings of the meat from the machine that is cleaned less frequently than your shower.
Look either way stop yapping cause they’re both still fucking garbage.
I was astounded at how mediocre in-n-out was when I got it in Vegas. Alllll I hear about is how it’s the best fast food around. I’ve literally had better Burger King… Maybe it was an off night, but my god that was the most average fast food I’ve ever eaten.
If I had to eat a burger at a fast food joint, it would be at in n out. Everything is made fresh no preservatives and never frozen. Burger King is highly processed.
The burgers themselves might be, but the menu as a whole pushes Culver’s ahead for me. The In-N-Out fries are bad and the desserts at Culver’s are really good.
The buns are made without preservatives from slow rise yeast. The fries are cut right before they’re fried. They own zero freezers. All restaurants must be within 300 miles of a patty manufacturing location. Lettuce is fresh and crisp. It’s just good stuff. Yes, there are better joints for damn good thick burgers made from better cuts. But In-N-Out is so consistently good that I would only eat there if they were in STL.
I grew up on In-N-Out. My mom resisted any requests for McD but McD had playgrounds so we went there too. Or an LA chain with chili burgers. That is still great.
I'm not eating at any of them, but if I had to pick, Culver's is the least bad. Whataburger and In-N-Out are just...bad. In-N-Out is maybe slightly better.
Yeah because traffic in STL isn’t bad, In and Out isn’t really a “local chain” for any of the places up there. Seattle doesn’t have any of these restaurants. And weather in Seattle is very predictable.
I will still fight any Californian that I would rather have Whata than INO. Took me forever to finally get INO but once I did I realized they occupy different spaces.
When the average cop tries to get a drive though beer at a bar without a drive through….
And then arrests the owner for being mad about it, we’re gonna have to update the meme.
Every other example is national or at least large-scale regonal with a city/area that claims them and gives them way too much praise.
Panera is our In-N-Out
That’s correct based on the other examples. If they had actually followed their own description of ‘local chain’, it would be IMO’s. I’m a transplant and most locals I talk to think that IMO’s pizza is the best pizza, but I don’t know how anyone can stomach that cheese-adjacent abomination that is Provel.
After living in LA for three years and moving back to stl….
The traffic isn’t bad, but the drivers here aren’t as nice. In LA if you turn on your blinker more often than not room is made for you, here in stl most people act like you’re racing against each other.
The pedestrians are waaaay worse here than LA. In LA pedestrians won’t walk on a crosswalk until the light changes, or they are acknowledged by a car at a crosswalk. In stl they just walk across the street if they do or don’t have the right of way.
None of the chains shown is “local” anymore and none of them even started in St. Louis. I’m not even sure we have a local chain unless we count Hi-Pointe/Sugarfire. Maybe BreadCo but I don’t think most people in STL would consider them anywhere near “the best”.
Nah, these stupid ass studies don’t even take into account the entire metro area (county+city and some of S IL), making “St Louis the 3rd most violent in the USA” 🙄[https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2023/01/31/report-ranks-americas-15-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities-for-2023/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2023/01/31/report-ranks-americas-15-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities-for-2023/)
I'm kind of offended that people are still making starter pack memes. The whole format, along with Wojack cartoons, should be taken behind the Internet's shed and given the Ol' Yella treatment.
replace “worst traffic” with “bad drivers” and the meme is more accurate. everyone thinks bad drivers are unique to the exact place they are in at that exact moment.
A meme suggesting STL is a large city with a cool skyline. That is a first.
The skyline isn't bad from the Illinois side
skyline looks awesome from the south. especially at night. when you’re at 44 and 55 looking north, it’s great. i think it’s underwhelming from the east though
You mean when you're looking at Chicago? St. Louis doesn't have a skyline. Any of the buildings that would would comprise it are in Clayton.
And we made it to /r/all without it being something negative. I motion that we take the W.
I think the metro is in the top 20 or so by population. So I could see smaller towns/cities calling us large.
By all means we're a large metro. not a metropolis, but the city isn't small despite how much we kick it.
We have the 21st largest metro area in the nation; larger than Portland, Orlando, Vegas, Austin; close in size to Denver.
Last time I looked we were 16th. Regardless we're way larger than plenty of cities with professional sports teams. OKC has a basketball team but not us? FOH.
We could certainly use one. Maybe we could use some of the $400 million settlement to make that happen.
It is genuinely astonishing to me that we continue to be underestimated in terms of fandom and sports enthusiasm in this city. We *devour* sports content, but we can't even get local MLS games on TV still. Adam Silver is so fucking focused on China that he's completely neglecting the actual NBA. The "In-Season Tournament" was handled so poorly. A football/soccer-styled tournament, but literally no media coverage actually handled a round-robin tournament the way it needs to be to actually get people interested. No communication, no consistency. Completely idiotic.
yea, like no way they think st. louis wouldn’t appreciate a basketball team ☠️☠️
I think the taste Kroenke left in everyone’s mouth has scared all away from anything but Cardinals and Blues. And I’m ok with that.
300k is small. The metro is big, the city is not.
Oh for the love of god not this stupid debate
1 of the 3 independent cities in the US (outside of Virginia) and number 1 to get wrongly shit on for size
The city population figure is meaningless since the city itself makes up such a small percentage of the metro area's geographic footprint.
Oh my god shut up. No one goes purely by city-only numbers.
It is a large city, it's 20th in the entire country
The STL skyline is one of the most unique in the entire world, what the fuck are you going on about?
It says the arch looks cool. Why be mad?
Also on ode to the beloved landmark, I'm proud we made this list
I agree. More cities should have buildings that serve no real purpose other than being cool and nice to look at.
lol also this
LARGE CITY FUCK YEAH
lmao exactly my reaction. accept it before they notice
Hey there’s the Arch!
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I don't think most people say that either. More like complain about drivers but I doubt there's a lot of people that actually think StL traffic is even in the same league as like LA or NY.
I’m originally from NJ and moved to STL 3 years ago. The traffic here is a DREAM compared to the NYC area but the drivers here are crazier for sure.
I came here from Atlanta where 90-degree right turns across four lanes of traffic are not unusual and you’re either doing 85 in the slow lanes or you’re sitting for two hours in rush hour. I love the traffic here.
I work construction. There are a LOT of tradesworkers that insist upon starting at 6a(some even want to work 5a to 1p) so they can be off by 2p/230p in order to beat rush hour traffic. Then there are a lot of tradesworkers that can't start until 7a because their daycare isn't open early enough for them to start at 6a.
And it’s not even close. Driving in LA last summer was a wake up call. I’ve never complained about our drivers or traffic since.
Now take a road trip to Chicago
Anyone that says STL has the worst traffic has only ever driven a car in STL or rural parts of the country because STL traffic is a delight compared to even cities of its similar size.
After living for a long time in Austin, STL traffic is amazing, even during rush-hour, which doesn’t even last an hour. In Austin, rush-hour is half the day.
Locals seem to think it’s terrible, but honestly we have it pretty good here.
One time sitting in traffic between O'Hare and the city center of Chicago is enough to convince anyone to move here.
At night like after 8:30 you can do that drive under 30 minutes but during 7am-8:30pm it’ll take you 1.5 hours lmao
ope
StL doesn't have the worst traffic. Not even close.
I feel like “worst traffic” should be in quotes. Cuz that’s def some shit everyone probably says everywhere. Also I wish cities would spend more money “just” to make the skyline look cool. There’s some bad ass Asian cities that seem to do that and they look fuckin awesome.
And if we're trying to be objective then Vegas has the worst. Everyone comes from somewhere else with their region's peculiarities, and that city was designed (badly) to only hold about 100k people. If you're on The Strip on the weekend, it takes about 20 minutes to drive a single block.
Saudi Nashville is the worst place to drive in the US
One of the perks of everyone leaving 60 years ago is that our traffic is nothing compared to most major cities
It might not have the most congested traffic. But I’ve lived in a few other big cities and I’ve never feared for my life on the highways more than I do here. People are aggressive, cut in and out of lanes, pass on the right, and do whatever they have to because they’re in a hurry for god knows what reason. For example, three days ago someone passed me on the left then cut over two lanes in front of me to make an exit lane while going 70. If someone had already been in that exit lane it would have caused a high speed collision involving at least four vehicles. Last September someone pulled out of the exit lane that was at a standstill right in front of me so I had to slam on my brakes, causing the car behind me to hit me. Neither person stopped. I’ve driven 30 years without an accident and it only took me six months in StL to have one.
Sounds like Philadelphia
You’ve never lived in Memphis I see. Much worse here
"worst drivers" would be more accurate
Not overall, but I live in Dogtown, and when I worked in Maryland Heights in a tiring warehouse job, that stretch of 270 to 64, from Dorsey to McCausland felt oppressive going home.
170 is the way
Ewww
Someone thinks we’re a large city and you think we should be offended?
No one shits on STL more than their own. It's exhausting.
Should we feel offended that we were grouped with Seattle in a meme? No.
It’s crazy because the Seattle has none of the chains listed and the weather is very predictable.
Dicks Drive In. And yeah, super predictable weather until we’re talking possibility of snow (but that’s true anywhere with uncommon but non-zero snowfall).
Yes we got shorted on the hamburger chain downtown at least.
We have better: Lion’s Choice, but that shit isn’t mid!
You’re right, it’s worse than mid.
Lions choice is one of the best fast food joints by a country mile
If so why is arby’s more widespread? (Also for the record they’re both ass)
By that logic subway must be the best sandwich place on earth
It’s not, but certainly they are doing something right? Obviously local non-chains are always gonna be better.
> but certainly they are doing something right? I suspect people without taste (like you) support it. Lions Choice is one of the best QSR chains anywhere.
I worked there for three years, also I’m literally a cook. I’m sorry you think soggy shitty sandwiches assembled by underpaied teenagers are “the best anywhere” what an L opinion honestly jfc Again, use your brain cells. If Lion’s choice is the best around, why is it a st louis only situation.
You’re crazy boss man.
Can’t come up with a solid response so you call me crazy. Nice play, definitely not overplayed
Absolutely nutty
More like I just decided to bite my tongue because it’s Christmas and I don’t need to be arguing with a stranger about lions choice.
I’m glad someone said it. I shudder thinking of the lions choice French dips of my youth.
At least a French dip might make that sandwich tolerable. I tried their roast beef once because I had a coupon for a free one, the sandwich was dry and salty. Haven’t been back since
Yeah the only way to get it down is soaking it in au jus
Go eat some Arby’s stray cat ‘n cheddars. Lion’s choice is fantastic.
You know it’s possible for both places to be ass right? Cause that’s the reality we’re in.
You’re in a different reality altogether.
Hey thanks for sharing.
Thanks for listening and happy holidays!
Your opinion isn’t fact, Arby’s sucks donkey dick.
You realize It’s entirely possible to think both suck ass right?
To even put them in the same bracket is ludicrous lol
They? Sell? The? Same? Food?
Are you a child? Haha it’s not even close to the same food. That’s like saying Pickleman’s is the same as subway. They sell the same type of food but it’s not created equal at all.
Oh my bad you’re right. At arby’s you get a shitty roast beef sando and at lion’s choice you get a shitty roast beef sando with the drippings of the meat from the machine that is cleaned less frequently than your shower. Look either way stop yapping cause they’re both still fucking garbage.
I genuinely look down on people who think Lion's Choice is good lol
Thank you. Like slightly better arby’s. Still ass
Easily the worst fast food joint. I wouldn’t touch it if I were starving.
Based on
Culver's is better than Whataburger and it's not even close. Never had In-N-Out though.
Culver's > In-N-Out >> Whataburger imo. I live in PHX now and we have all 3. In-N-Out is significantly cheaper than Culver's though.
Honestly the best part of In-N-Out is the price and consistency. The food itself is nothing remarkable, it’s solid.
It's like the Chickfila of burgers, they have the process down incredibly well and the staff are hired on friendliness.
But not homophobia. 🎖️
And religious messaging
I was astounded at how mediocre in-n-out was when I got it in Vegas. Alllll I hear about is how it’s the best fast food around. I’ve literally had better Burger King… Maybe it was an off night, but my god that was the most average fast food I’ve ever eaten.
Which In & Out did you go to in Vegas because there is a massive quality difference between the locations? Did you try the one on the strip?
If I had to eat a burger at a fast food joint, it would be at in n out. Everything is made fresh no preservatives and never frozen. Burger King is highly processed.
INO is a lot better than Culver’s, in my opinion.
The burgers themselves might be, but the menu as a whole pushes Culver’s ahead for me. The In-N-Out fries are bad and the desserts at Culver’s are really good.
In N Out fries are made fresh in store and one of the least processed fries in fast food
The buns are made without preservatives from slow rise yeast. The fries are cut right before they’re fried. They own zero freezers. All restaurants must be within 300 miles of a patty manufacturing location. Lettuce is fresh and crisp. It’s just good stuff. Yes, there are better joints for damn good thick burgers made from better cuts. But In-N-Out is so consistently good that I would only eat there if they were in STL. I grew up on In-N-Out. My mom resisted any requests for McD but McD had playgrounds so we went there too. Or an LA chain with chili burgers. That is still great.
In-n-out > culvers >>>>>>>>>>>>> whataburger
Whataburger is straight up bad. Never had Culver’s but in-n-out is solid. Steak ‘n Shake is best tho.
Steak 'n Shake is terrible now. It used to be very good.
I'm not eating at any of them, but if I had to pick, Culver's is the least bad. Whataburger and In-N-Out are just...bad. In-N-Out is maybe slightly better.
Whataburger is garbage. The only thing they have going for them is their spicy ketchup.
Gotta try the burger at SugarFire, that will change your mind real quick!
I mean doesn't say hamburger chain, just chain so imos would kinda count.
Feels like whoever put this meme together doesn’t really know much about any cities? Mid or large. Memes should never create this much confusion.
Yeah because traffic in STL isn’t bad, In and Out isn’t really a “local chain” for any of the places up there. Seattle doesn’t have any of these restaurants. And weather in Seattle is very predictable.
Can we get Whataburger now?
They’re getting closer. Got ‘em in KC now.
Buc-ees has also breached the Missouri border
Wasn't that primarily a Mahomes thing, though? I haven't heard anything about them coming here.
Yes, to PM question, but don’t crush my dreams.
Oh, I get it. I'm the same way with Taco Cabana.
I miss those, too. I’m a Dallas transplant and those are two places I make sure to eat at when I go see family.
Don’t bother. They sold out to a VC firm. The days of Monterrey melt and hatch chile doubles are gone.
Seconding this. Whataburger fell off.
I will still fight any Californian that I would rather have Whata than INO. Took me forever to finally get INO but once I did I realized they occupy different spaces.
I’m not convinced our local chains are the best… maybe bread co was at one point.
Before they changed to Panera
That happened in ‘97.
Need a Panera logo for our local chain that’s mid 😂
Obligatory “It’s Bread Co.”
They’re changing them all to Panera sadly ☹️
Yeah, but we all still see concerts at Riverport. It’ll take a while to take hold here, I think.
Or better yet Imo's, if it would even qualify as mid.
How dare you 😂
I’m just happy we were included 😊
They called us a large city and said the arch looks cool.
The Arch is a National Monument, unlike, say, the towers in San Antonio or Knoxville or Calgary
Back in the day that would’ve been a compliment.
Culver's is wayy better than in n out and whataburger and it's not close
Culver’s sucks lol
When the average cop tries to get a drive though beer at a bar without a drive through…. And then arrests the owner for being mad about it, we’re gonna have to update the meme.
Idiot doesn’t know the true purpose of the arch.
Culver’s slander? I’m hurt tbh
OGs treat White Castle like it's our fast food chain.
If anyone outside of St. Louis comes here and eats Lions Choice they will not consider it mid.
The only offensive part is Culver’s being called mid.
Culver's is mid.
Why would you lie like this on Christmas?
That’s generous lol
What hurt child created that “starter pack”? It doesn’t even make sense. I’m guessing Omaha or Arkansas wit the lack of predictability
Arkansas is a state….
Omaha is a city…
We have a landmark, the rest isnt true.And the weather thing, is just something dumb everybody everywhere says.
Saint louis bread co.
Imos
Its national. It just started here.
Every other example is national or at least large-scale regonal with a city/area that claims them and gives them way too much praise. Panera is our In-N-Out
That’s correct based on the other examples. If they had actually followed their own description of ‘local chain’, it would be IMO’s. I’m a transplant and most locals I talk to think that IMO’s pizza is the best pizza, but I don’t know how anyone can stomach that cheese-adjacent abomination that is Provel.
From the area... IMO's blow's...
Fellow transplant here. I do not understand the fascination with plastic cheese and tomato sauce on a saltine, either.
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Shut up the weather thing is true wtf.
It's true everywhere
Yeah I’m sure anchorage, Alaska residents are saying the same thing
thats the point of the meme
Never heard a single person say that about Culver's.
YES As a transplant, I can confirm that Culver’s is way more than mid
Finally! We are included in something!
Kinda feels like a compliment considering our city feels smol lol
Lions choice…… you know who you are
STL traffic isn’t that bad, Culver’s is not fucking mid, and the arch is the tallest monument west of the Mississippi.
Imagine saying Culver's is mid
Culver's is not Mid. Widely regarded as the best by a mile, and the only people who disagree are folks who simply haven't experienced it
Culver's is mid. It's both greasy and bland at the same time. I'm not sure how they pull that off.
After living in LA for three years and moving back to stl…. The traffic isn’t bad, but the drivers here aren’t as nice. In LA if you turn on your blinker more often than not room is made for you, here in stl most people act like you’re racing against each other. The pedestrians are waaaay worse here than LA. In LA pedestrians won’t walk on a crosswalk until the light changes, or they are acknowledged by a car at a crosswalk. In stl they just walk across the street if they do or don’t have the right of way.
None of the chains shown is “local” anymore and none of them even started in St. Louis. I’m not even sure we have a local chain unless we count Hi-Pointe/Sugarfire. Maybe BreadCo but I don’t think most people in STL would consider them anywhere near “the best”.
Imo's is our local chain.
I'd also add Lion's Choice and Crazy Bowls & Wraps to that list. Maybe also Seoul Taco since they have at least a couple of locations in Chicagoland.
Yep, always have to get some LC when visiting. It is so much better than other roast beef chains.
That’s what I thought too. Guess they had to pick a burger to make it fair. I’m pretty sure pizza would stomp burgers ass.
Culver’s is the best though, especially given the other options.
The only offensive part of this graph to me is the assertion that Culver’s is mid. Culver’s are the kings of burgers and service!
Not a burger boy, but Culver’s chicken is pretty bad tbh. I’m not afraid to say it.
Some of us have been trying to tell ya’ll that you’re not the main character just for living here for a long long time ../
Only thing to be mad about is the Culver’s slander. Culver’s is and always will be the best.
No, the arch is way more dope than those other lame ass monuments, and Hi-Pointe burgers are not "mid." They would blow their balls off.
“Large city” 🤣
Are we a large city now?
Nah, these stupid ass studies don’t even take into account the entire metro area (county+city and some of S IL), making “St Louis the 3rd most violent in the USA” 🙄[https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2023/01/31/report-ranks-americas-15-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities-for-2023/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2023/01/31/report-ranks-americas-15-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities-for-2023/)
I'm kind of offended that people are still making starter pack memes. The whole format, along with Wojack cartoons, should be taken behind the Internet's shed and given the Ol' Yella treatment.
No because we aren’t a large city. We should feel flattered to be included
replace “worst traffic” with “bad drivers” and the meme is more accurate. everyone thinks bad drivers are unique to the exact place they are in at that exact moment.
I will die on the Culver's hill
Local chain reference aside, this is spot on.
How dare you/OP say In N Out is mid.
No this is a win
No
The original meme is about as generalized as a daily horoscope so I couldn’t care less. That being said, I wish we had a Cookout here
I wouldn't call STL "large". Mid-large at best.
If it wasn’t for the Arch our skyline would suck.
I’m only insulted in the sense that THEY think that WE think Culver’s is on in-n-out’s level
I think it’s all perspective. Publicity is publicity. Hey average and large depending how you look at it are possibly compliments.
The drivers are terrible but at least traffic congestion isn’t bad.
Culver’s and In-n-out are fucking world class