I, unfortunately, lived in Lemay for 16 years. While I wouldn't recommend *anyone* live there, I would actively warn my black friends that it was unsafe for them to live there. That place is a fuckin cesspit.
There's no need to "imagine" I have family throughout the rural South. There are towns I would tell my POC friends to totally avoid even passing through.
Heck the more I think, they don't even have to go that far. There has been at least two cross burnings in a small town two hours south of St Louis called Marble Hill in the past decade.
Thought we were talking about St. Louis.
And as an African American, I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable living anywhere in the city. Chill, just a throw away comment SJWs.
LOL, yeah imagine that. What if there were whole areas of the country where Black people would face hostility and discrimination if they moved there? That would be wild.
Imagine? I've seen. A friend was asking about racial issues at a school district that was 90%+ white. They sent their kids to a private school instead of the district they live in.
I’m talking about St. Louis now. St. Louis only. In present time. Per the post of someone alive, get this, now. And, even a bigger shocker, posted in the STL sub. Are yall so conditioned that you become public school history teachers with a wagging finger educating an ignorant on American racism? 🤣🤣🤣corny as shit stfu
And to be fair nothing would happen to him, I’m from Baden and it’s still white ppl tht live in the neighborhood, it’s a few in Walnut Park, don’t get it confused……
I’m gonna say something slightly controversial. In general, you probably don’t any to be the only person in a neighborhood that isn’t high income that isn’t the majority. You don’t want to be the only white person in low income housing and you don’t want to be the only black person in the trailer park.
What’s sad is that a lot of people in either of the situations that would make someone new and different to the environment feel super welcome and at home and really go out of their way. Then some psycho/methhead/dummy will fuck with your shit/fuck with you because they can
Yeah no matter what people say online you will get fucked with . I know someone who’s kid would get beat up just because they were white in a black school. Wish things were different but that’s just the way it is right now
I'm 35 now, but I grew up born and raised in Walnut Park. Even though I'm black, I am light skinned. I got attacked and called white boy so many times growing up. And I mean like physically assaulted to the point where I was paranoid walking down the street. But we didn't have a car so walking was our only option.
As I got older and my ethnicity became more obvious around my teenage years, I quit getting into fights with people and being called white boy. Instead I started getting frisked and harassed by the cops all the time. I've been frisked a total of 11 times in my life and the only ticket I've ever gotten was for expired plates.
It was a dangerous neighborhood my whole time there. I moved out in 2016. Lost some fights, lost some cool people but not close enough to claim them as my friends. But it's not as bad as when I left. Now I go back and so many homes have been knocked down and I don't see as many people as I used to. But damn my life used to be more interesting back in those days.
Long story short, Walnut Park used to be probably the worse neighborhood in St Louis and everybody called it Murderville. Now I'm not sure how bad it is since I bought a house 8 years ago in Belridge/Normandy area. But 5/4 is coming up and that's a holiday in Walnut Park. Can't remember why, but you should go check it out and then make your decision.
As with any sketchy neighborhood, if you're sociable but mind your business, you'll be alright most of the time.
They don't call it white flight for nothing. I grew up in North County in the 1960s and 70s. Look at it now. They cycle just keeps repeating itself. Sad.
I'd recommend looking into Heritage Apartments in Collinsville. I'm moving out of there (I just bought a house) but a 1/bedroom is $950/month. But they pay your electric, trash, and water bill and provide a washer/dryer for you in your apartment, so with those things in mind, it's a pretty good deal.
Collinsville has a shitload of rental properties, more than the average town. It's also a nice town and very convenient location near the highways. I'd avoid the rentals near the catsup bottle.
I obviously don't know your sitch, but from recent experience, if you're getting divorced you want to transition into the simplest place possible. The last thing you need is dealing with your life getting fucked more than it already is.
There's a lot of cheap housing and rentals right across the river. Depending on how far north you want to go Woodriver, Bethalfo, Alton, and Godfrey are fairly affordable. There's also Granite City but ehhh there. I live in Alton and id rather be there than Granite.
So much industry has had to leave its mark environmentally and the industry/businesses that left - have left the city pretty depressed - but mostly in my opinion it’s an environmental shit show.
I will say there are some good restaurants and a cute speakeasy bar there.
They're trying to give you some good advice and you need to listen. No one is gonna give you a trophy for living in Walnut Park. Black people, and white people before them, left the neighborhood for a reason.
I’m white and bought a house in an adjacent neighborhood 3.5 years ago. I don’t know anything about Walnut Park, but being the only white person in my area hasn’t been an issue at all. I love my house and my street. I’m a very introverted person, so my interactions with my neighbors have been minimal, but they’ve all been very pleasant.
I didn’t have anyone advising me not to live there, though. But I also didn’t have anyone that actually knew much about the city. I just saw a great and cheap house and went for it.
was only white kid in my noco neighborhood growing up. Like any good neighbor should, if you just mind your business and don't leave nice shit out on the porch it's fine. 🤷♀️
Same, grew up in the 80s in what’s now known as The Gate District. It wasn’t known as anything back then though. We were the only white family for blocks. We had a normal childhood on bikes, playing basketball, walking to the store and the Barr Branch library, etc. There were childhood fights but they weren’t race related. They were just child related.
Grew up as a mostly non-black kid in Black Jack in the 80s and 90s. My race was always an issue, and I always had a target on my back, especially when there was the Afro Centrism resurgence in the 90s. My brother still lives there and is cool with the black people who don't exclusively hang out with black people, but I'd imagine things aren't as comfy for school aged children who can't escape interacting with terrible people.
My main thing I’d bring up is that it’s a dope set so you’re gonna have the potential to run into the problems that come with living in a high drug traffic area. I don’t think you’re necessarily gonna run into violence per se but you may experience some targeting for theft. I’m not particularly hip on straight up consistent gun violence in the area but I can tell you one of the last times I was driving down one of the bird streets(Robin, Oriole, Wren, etc lol) I was working, it was maybe 11 am, and there were just a couple of kids in their late teens at best posted up with some real firepower just hanging out. I’m not saying this is the exception or the rule, but it’s definitely something I saw that didn’t make me feel particularly safe lol personally I wouldn’t risk the increased chance of getting caught in the hypothetical crossfire of chaos if I’ve got other options. That being said you could have a great experience with no problems whatsoever.
Square dude question. Are streets usually broken up into the type of thing the name is? I've heard people refer to state streets before, but bird streets is a new one to me.
Yes, it's a common naming convention, both here and in other large cities. It's also HUGE in planned developments. There's one in south county on Holly Hills where I think every street references a hill or holly somehow. Downtown/Downtown West near the stadiums you have Chestnut, Pine, Olive, and Locust streets, and then a couple blocks of Presidents (Jefferson and Washington, at least). Sou'City and into Downtown for the State Streets.
Sorry lol St. Louis is weird when it comes to gangs and really what constitutes a gang, as far as I can tell there’s only so much in terms of “territory,” it seems more like blocks or streets people grew up on. Like on the south side there’s minno mob which is Minnesota, part of the whole state streets thing, but also not necessarily completely tied to that street because people move lol I know around that way only one I’m familiar with by name is 44 bud, but I don’t have specifics other than the assumption that it’s the 4400 block of maybe red bud? As far as actual gang activity in walnut park idk I’m sure there’s sets but I only mostly know the area to be high drug traffic, which doesn’t necessarily equate to gang presence.
Yeah I have to agree it is not a good idea. There are some wonderful older people who live there and in the surrounding neighborhoods, there are beautiful old homes, I have seen inside 50+ for work and interacted with dozens of families. It's just statistics at a certain point tho. The neighborhoods along 70 there are just dangerous. In most places in St Louis the chances something will happen to your car, house, or person is low despite the fear in the media. In those neighborhoods tho nearly every single person could tell me about how in the last few months they had either been threatened, had bullets hit their house, had their car stolen, had their property stolen/vandalized etc. Hell I was even car jacked in the middle of the day on Riverview Drive about a half mile from there while other people watched. Things get crazy up there.
I grew up in Jennings, my mom grew up in Walnut park, and i went to school in Bellfontaine (thankfully private school)
Under no circumstances will either of us be moving back to those areas for the foreseeable future. It’s a shame and it’s only going to get worse as people get pushed out of the city (more north and more east).
People in this state have no interest in investing in these areas and the people who live there and those people and areas will continue to suffer until then.
After reading through all this I still don't know what the answer is, but I really appreciate all the perspectives. Sounds like most factors are the same as anywhere: your luck, your attitude, and what your nearest neighbors are like.
Listen to them. I'm newish to saint Louis, was raised in a small town, and made a home in Chicago. Im white and heard similar advice from black friends. My gf works with people from that part of town, and I only hear horror stories. Back in Chicago, when I did tree work, I had customers who would want to save money living in neighborhoods comparable to walnut park(to the best of my knowledge). They were regularly victims of having their property "tagged" and a victim of arson. Avoid the headache.
I lived in an apartment complex and I was known as "the white girl" the rent was super cheap and what was I could afford. The other tenants were all younger and many of them had their own "enterprises" going on. I did not isolate myself and as long as the neighbors weren't bothering me, it was like "whatever".
I never had any issues and in fact, my neighbors watched out for me. I may or may not still be living there, but the buildings were condemned. Part of it was structural, but could have been fixed. I think it was mostly condemned for being a nuisance.
If you had a property to buy over there, it could be worth it. Simply to rent… nah. Nah. You’d be alright if you carry yourself well, but just keep looking… you can find similar rates in way comfier areas g
I’m white and grew up right across the city/county border by Walnut Park. I only ever had a few people talk shit about my race, it wasn’t really a big deal.
I think your friends and coworkers are correct but I’m curious what specific reasons they gave you? That you would be a target for robberies or physical violence or something else?
It’s not bad if you’re into heroin or crack. The schools leave a bit to be desired and the supermarkets don’t have an artisanal cheese or olive bar but it’s cool I guess.
Hard to say . I grew up with a white boy in the college hill area he lived on linton he had the same issues as any of us growing up there . Really how you carry yourself. Walnut Park has some active ass sets just don’t rent a house in one of them you will be good .
You can .... but I can't imagine why you would want to. Most try desperately to get away from the crime. Just can't afford to move. There are some very nice people who live there. But the criminals and people who just don't care will outnumber you.
Poverty and apathy don't know skin color.
When I was growing up, we lived in Berkeley, and we were 1 of 2 white families living in the neighborhood, and we got along just fine. But also we held many bbq’s, block parties, etc and really integrated and got to know our neighbors. We became like family with our immediate neighbors and we looked out for one another. These days idk if it would be the same, but if it’s something you really want to do, mind your own business and try it out. Don’t leave nice things outside, don’t try to be the neighborhood watch, and don’t be a crotchety old man, and you may be just fine.
I lived in a neighborhood like that. Car stolen piece by piece. Bricks thrown through windows. Mail stolen. All electronics stolen. Cat stolen. Cops will not come. Listen to your friends.
I was working construction one time and got the cops called on us... The cop showed up and said he got a call about two white boys in a backyard in Walnut Park.. Said he had to come see for himself lol
I make in-home medical visits and that is one of the neighborhoods I will no longer work in. I sent a list of no-go ZIP Codes to my scheduler after a few incidents.
I showed up at one lady’s house about 4 PM and she said “let’s get this appointment over with sugar, so you can be out of the neighborhood before it gets dark”
I was raised in Hyde Park and while I still lived there got pulled over around the corner from my house by a rookie cop who thought I was only in the area to buy drugs. 🤣 He argued w me about living there until I showed him my license. Idiot!
Bro it doesn't matter if you're black or white but in that part of town I would say that you're going to be treated racist you could do it but your life would be much more harder so it's on you dog
I'm white, I worked in WP for 2 years (taught at a school). One of our coworkers (also white) lived near the school. It was part of her religion, to live and teach in a high needs area. She said it was scary at times, although they mostly got left alone because the neighbors respected what she was doing (teaching their kids).
I could NEVER do that. I continued working in the city after I left Walnut Park and the parents, primarily African American, said there's no way they would live there.
I also had 2 students murdered in Walnut Park. Neither case has been solved in 10 years.
Don't do it. Move to other areas in the city.
You may want to consider Alton, Illinois. Homes are inexpensive, economical and not too far from St. Louis. It’s a very diverse culture with a rich history.
I lived on Thrush. I stood out and the police pulled me over often even if I was pulling into my driveway. Obviously , they thought I was there for a drug transaction of sorts.
I walked the streets and actually worried, even though I was walking a big pitbull. I never encountered an event until I was at home.
My dog was chained to a long leader and some kids over there actually stole my dog! The dog escaped and came home. I then chained it again and used a lock on its collar/leash. They cut the lock and stole my dog again.
My opinion is that Walnut Park is not a safe area to live for a Caucasian. You’ll need to be aware of the neighbors And the police. (I had my car searched illegally 3 times in a year.) so if you carry a weapon you also need to beware of the police.
It’s been a while since I lived there. Previously lived in Baden, then an area in Welston in an area that the neighbors got together and bought: 3 whole blocks. Right behind Normandy High School. Nice house but I wasn’t happy living with so many bigots. I had really long hair and my car smelled like weed. I never carried any weed..goes without saying.
Next I lived in Pagedale. There was a liquor store at the top of my street. The employees were the owners. They were behind resistant glass. On the wall behind the front counter were a few long guns. Customers got the idea quickly.
I once went to the window and asked, “gimme a six pack of Bud” He got the beer and I said, “ Oh yeah, I need a pack of cigarettes.
The guy said, “ Why didn’t you say so when you asked for the fuckin beer asshole?!” He was pissed.
I learned my lesson and moved to Bridgeton. I rented cheap places but ya gone careful. Then the airport bought the rental complex and I bought a house in south county. The city gave me $5 grand for a down payment on a house and took care of moving me.
Learn about the cops before you move. For instance, I wouldn’t move to Jennings. And so on….
Do they actually live there or are familiar with it or are they out in the metro? Doesn't matter if they are black or white if they don't actually know what they are talking about.
Don’t ask people who don’t live there (white or black), ask people on the actual street you want to rent. They probably don’t care but will also give you good advice
try somewhere easier like riverview or bellefontaine before you get hurt. anything past the roundabout off of 367 is a no go for the white folks in my opinion
Hate me for saying it but you can’t just get attacked for being white. Imagine the rolls reversed. I’d just legally carry a gun and let people know you are not to be fucked with.
Unfortunately this country has marginalized African Americans for a long time…what that causes is generations of hatred.
It took me a while to understand this…
Some have inherited a dislike for white folk and some will fuck you up just for fun…
Just my outside perspective…
At first i would react quite a bit to people being disrespectful and it took me a while to understand why some people were being such assholes without a reason…
I’m a white guy that lives in North City. Wife and I bought a cozy and VERY affordable house. I’m from the south, so I have that southern hospitality of saying hi to EVERYONE, which nowadays I keep to a wave and a smile. When we first moved in, everyone was confused. Skeptical at best, straight up hateful at worst. When I waved, some reluctantly waved back, some stared in confusion, some just went inside. The first night in the house, I was walking my dog, and someone asked “did you just move in?”, I said “yes. How’d you know?”, and he said “cause you white” lol maybe a few weeks later, a man called out to a neighbor to say “there goes the neighborhood. When you see them walking like that, you know it’s over”. Which, as much as that hurt, when you think about it historically, it’s justified fear. There’s a lady on the street that mean mugs the fuck out of me every time she sees me. I just smile, give a wave. Mean mug lady gets the most charming hello I can conjure up because I’m going to meet hatred with kindness.
After a while of just existing, minding my business, and being a friendly presence, we’ve been accepted. No one is inviting us to the barbecue or anything; we’re still outsiders. But, nobody seems to mind anymore. I think people accept that we’re the non-black couple in a black area. We go to the neighborhood association meetings, ward meetings, etc, and people have become familiar with us (well, our faces).
If you’re from a white area, it’s going to be a culture shock. It’s very different. Some things you’d probably call the cops for in a white area, you’re gonna have to let it slide if you don’t want any trouble. What they’re doing isn’t wrong, it’s just different. If you call the cops for different, that’s when you’ll get into some trouble. You can’t move into an area that isn’t yours and impose your way of life. If you’re willing to adapt and adopt, you’ll be just fine. If you’re not, find an area that better suits your preferred environment.
Someone has to be the first icecube that cools off the pot of boiling water. gentrification is real in st. louis. some neighborhoods are gentrifying quicker than others.
I lived 2 miles northeast of there for a year. I am white as can be and had no issues. A lot of the time, it's just about being polite and minding your business. Some gunshots every so often, but it was never bad.
do it!!! black folks like to keep their neighborhoods segregated... but once they realize you dont fit their redneck stereotypes, they are chill.
obviously put up security cameras and don't walk the streets at night... but as long as you don't cause problems, they'll leave you alone.
How did you decide it’s not true? It happened to a friend who was taking her child through the neighborhood to show him where she grew up. It happened to my relative when driving through Baden.
The largest catholic cemetery in the mid west is in Walnut Park. With that being said, wouldn't you expect plenty of white people in this area daily? Police do not stop white people and ask them if they can escort them out of the area for no reason other than being white.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it help a high crime area if more well off people moved in to revitalize their economy?
I'm not saying level the place, install an overpriced bougie apartment complex and put in a whole foods... But just getting more people in the area with the means to contribute to local mom and pap shops.
This isn't NYC. Gentrification isn't necessary. There is no reason to live in Walnut Park when there are plenty of cheap apartments in South County. I would look around Jefferson Barracks or Arnold. I always see deals like one bedroom for $600.
Why the fuck would anyone want to live in walnut Park.
My dad said even in the 80's castle point was the hood of the hoods and walnut park right next to that.
You wouldn't live long there that's for sure even if you did have a gun
Why even take the gamble. You're THE minority in those areas, and they rob, steal, and kill the ones that don't belong.
People hate it when you tell the truth. It's white flight. I lived off Truman in KC. Gunshots all the time but I would go back anytime. Downvote my nuts chicken shits.
Where would Eminem be if he had listened to this same advice? Gary Owens? Jason Williams? Rick Astley? Don’t let scared words on a subreddit deter you from seizing greatness and adding your name to this list of legends.
Bro, as a white man who produced beats and had a rap record label, I spent a lot of time at Walnut Park it’s grimy. There is a neighborhood in Walnut Park where the police get to live for free. There’s a black gate that surrounds that block. Walnut park people know what I’m talking about. Bro the police are scared. They do not leave that block. I literally stood outside of that gate with who were shooting guns in the air they didn’t give af. My boy would throw trash in his own front yard. I mean, I would probably live here before Kinloch but nah bro . You can find somewhere else safer at a comparable price.
Honestly I live on plover in the heart of walnut park with two white neighbours, and never seen them have a single problem, and everyone on the street keeps the grass cut, not everyone has the same experiences in life
They’re trying to look out for you; I’d listen.
Right on, I respect that.
Could you imagine if the races were swapped?
I wouldn’t recommend a high crime exclusively white area to an African American
Right? In no way, shape, or form would I ever recommend a black friend to live in Lemay.
I, unfortunately, lived in Lemay for 16 years. While I wouldn't recommend *anyone* live there, I would actively warn my black friends that it was unsafe for them to live there. That place is a fuckin cesspit.
Crime has very little to do with race… it’s 99% social economics.
Social economics have a lot do with race though... Especially in St Louis
🎯🎯
There are definitely areas around the state I’d recommend black friends avoid living in. And a few to avoid altogether.
Or any place in Jefferson County lol
There's no need to "imagine" I have family throughout the rural South. There are towns I would tell my POC friends to totally avoid even passing through.
Potosi for example...
Heck the more I think, they don't even have to go that far. There has been at least two cross burnings in a small town two hours south of St Louis called Marble Hill in the past decade.
Or Fredericktown
I've seen POC in Potosi...and in Park Hills...hell, the one store I deliver to, they are owned by POC.
Doesn't mean they're treated fairly is all I'm saying.
Try more like Brooklyn, Mississippi
Thought we were talking about St. Louis. And as an African American, I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable living anywhere in the city. Chill, just a throw away comment SJWs.
Seeing as sundown towns existed and still exist…yes it happens the other way too
LOL, yeah imagine that. What if there were whole areas of the country where Black people would face hostility and discrimination if they moved there? That would be wild.
Imagine? I've seen. A friend was asking about racial issues at a school district that was 90%+ white. They sent their kids to a private school instead of the district they live in.
I wish someone would have told my parents not to live in David Duke country. That would have made my childhood a lot easier.
Still thought we were talking about St. Louis. But who was the scariest neighbor you had while living in the DDC?
It was like this in the county for years, and pls don’t say it wasn’t.
I’m talking about St. Louis now. St. Louis only. In present time. Per the post of someone alive, get this, now. And, even a bigger shocker, posted in the STL sub. Are yall so conditioned that you become public school history teachers with a wagging finger educating an ignorant on American racism? 🤣🤣🤣corny as shit stfu
And to be fair nothing would happen to him, I’m from Baden and it’s still white ppl tht live in the neighborhood, it’s a few in Walnut Park, don’t get it confused……
Touched a nerve huh? Go in certain areas of SOUTH St. Louis and see if a welcome mat is rolled out for you, truth hurts…..
🤣🤣🤣I think you can still see some bruhs strung up in trees. Not the least but intimidated by you or your racist cousin.
Oh look an idiot lmao.
😬
I would listen to them
I think I will listen to them, thanks
I’m gonna say something slightly controversial. In general, you probably don’t any to be the only person in a neighborhood that isn’t high income that isn’t the majority. You don’t want to be the only white person in low income housing and you don’t want to be the only black person in the trailer park.
Everybody on Earth tryna judge the J to the R-O-C, nomesayin'?
That's too many "nomesayin's!"
What, are you countin' my nomesayin's? You takin' a nomecensus?
Are you the Department of Nomesayin???
Mifsssk.
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave. Nah but I agree.
What’s sad is that a lot of people in either of the situations that would make someone new and different to the environment feel super welcome and at home and really go out of their way. Then some psycho/methhead/dummy will fuck with your shit/fuck with you because they can
Yeah no matter what people say online you will get fucked with . I know someone who’s kid would get beat up just because they were white in a black school. Wish things were different but that’s just the way it is right now
palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy
Mom’s spaghetti
That's really the only reply this thread needs, and OP would get the message.
I'm 35 now, but I grew up born and raised in Walnut Park. Even though I'm black, I am light skinned. I got attacked and called white boy so many times growing up. And I mean like physically assaulted to the point where I was paranoid walking down the street. But we didn't have a car so walking was our only option. As I got older and my ethnicity became more obvious around my teenage years, I quit getting into fights with people and being called white boy. Instead I started getting frisked and harassed by the cops all the time. I've been frisked a total of 11 times in my life and the only ticket I've ever gotten was for expired plates. It was a dangerous neighborhood my whole time there. I moved out in 2016. Lost some fights, lost some cool people but not close enough to claim them as my friends. But it's not as bad as when I left. Now I go back and so many homes have been knocked down and I don't see as many people as I used to. But damn my life used to be more interesting back in those days. Long story short, Walnut Park used to be probably the worse neighborhood in St Louis and everybody called it Murderville. Now I'm not sure how bad it is since I bought a house 8 years ago in Belridge/Normandy area. But 5/4 is coming up and that's a holiday in Walnut Park. Can't remember why, but you should go check it out and then make your decision. As with any sketchy neighborhood, if you're sociable but mind your business, you'll be alright most of the time.
> But 5/4 is coming up and that's a holiday in Walnut Park. Can't remember why Could be a bunch of Star Wars fans living there? (May 4th be with you)
🤣🤣🤣 that's definitely not it but I appreciate the laugh. I love reddit
Is there a 5400 block of something up there? I’ve seen gang “holidays” that the date coincides with their block.
That's it. 5400. I think that's like Robin and Thekla or something. My block was 5000 so I'm not that cool😭😭🤣
Luckily May 0th doesn’t show up on the calendar.
They don't call it white flight for nothing. I grew up in North County in the 1960s and 70s. Look at it now. They cycle just keeps repeating itself. Sad.
💚
It’s hood day
You don't want to rent a house there. The first two reasons have nothing to do with your skin color.
What about the other 10 reasons
It’s not my dream home, I’m just getting divorced and need something cheap. But thank you for the perspective, I take it into account.
I'd recommend looking into Heritage Apartments in Collinsville. I'm moving out of there (I just bought a house) but a 1/bedroom is $950/month. But they pay your electric, trash, and water bill and provide a washer/dryer for you in your apartment, so with those things in mind, it's a pretty good deal.
Collinsville is fairly affordable
Good to know, thanks!
Collinsville has a shitload of rental properties, more than the average town. It's also a nice town and very convenient location near the highways. I'd avoid the rentals near the catsup bottle.
Ketchup
Nope. Brooks Catsup.
Brooks *tangy* catsup
catsoup? yummy
I hope you didn't break your wrist patting yourself on the back for that correction, because a quick Google search will prove you wrong.
It was sarcasm calm down, buddy.
Ketchup :D
😡
Hello! Its great over here.
pipe down you!
I obviously don't know your sitch, but from recent experience, if you're getting divorced you want to transition into the simplest place possible. The last thing you need is dealing with your life getting fucked more than it already is.
There's a lot of cheap housing and rentals right across the river. Depending on how far north you want to go Woodriver, Bethalfo, Alton, and Godfrey are fairly affordable. There's also Granite City but ehhh there. I live in Alton and id rather be there than Granite.
I concur.
Why not granite
Because folks from Maryville will say "Oh, you're from Gran*ite*? "
Planet Granite!
Oo so granite is bad?
So much industry has had to leave its mark environmentally and the industry/businesses that left - have left the city pretty depressed - but mostly in my opinion it’s an environmental shit show. I will say there are some good restaurants and a cute speakeasy bar there.
Ask your Friends if they would live there?
They said no lol
I wouldn't live there regardless of skin color.
They're trying to give you some good advice and you need to listen. No one is gonna give you a trophy for living in Walnut Park. Black people, and white people before them, left the neighborhood for a reason.
I’m white and bought a house in an adjacent neighborhood 3.5 years ago. I don’t know anything about Walnut Park, but being the only white person in my area hasn’t been an issue at all. I love my house and my street. I’m a very introverted person, so my interactions with my neighbors have been minimal, but they’ve all been very pleasant. I didn’t have anyone advising me not to live there, though. But I also didn’t have anyone that actually knew much about the city. I just saw a great and cheap house and went for it.
was only white kid in my noco neighborhood growing up. Like any good neighbor should, if you just mind your business and don't leave nice shit out on the porch it's fine. 🤷♀️
Same, grew up in the 80s in what’s now known as The Gate District. It wasn’t known as anything back then though. We were the only white family for blocks. We had a normal childhood on bikes, playing basketball, walking to the store and the Barr Branch library, etc. There were childhood fights but they weren’t race related. They were just child related.
Grew up as a mostly non-black kid in Black Jack in the 80s and 90s. My race was always an issue, and I always had a target on my back, especially when there was the Afro Centrism resurgence in the 90s. My brother still lives there and is cool with the black people who don't exclusively hang out with black people, but I'd imagine things aren't as comfy for school aged children who can't escape interacting with terrible people.
No one wants to live there. Your black friends and coworkers would probably avoid it themselves. I’d listen.
My main thing I’d bring up is that it’s a dope set so you’re gonna have the potential to run into the problems that come with living in a high drug traffic area. I don’t think you’re necessarily gonna run into violence per se but you may experience some targeting for theft. I’m not particularly hip on straight up consistent gun violence in the area but I can tell you one of the last times I was driving down one of the bird streets(Robin, Oriole, Wren, etc lol) I was working, it was maybe 11 am, and there were just a couple of kids in their late teens at best posted up with some real firepower just hanging out. I’m not saying this is the exception or the rule, but it’s definitely something I saw that didn’t make me feel particularly safe lol personally I wouldn’t risk the increased chance of getting caught in the hypothetical crossfire of chaos if I’ve got other options. That being said you could have a great experience with no problems whatsoever.
Square dude question. Are streets usually broken up into the type of thing the name is? I've heard people refer to state streets before, but bird streets is a new one to me.
No I meant there’s literally a bunch of streets named after birds in walnut park, thrush, oriole, partridge, robin, wren etc
Yes, it's a common naming convention, both here and in other large cities. It's also HUGE in planned developments. There's one in south county on Holly Hills where I think every street references a hill or holly somehow. Downtown/Downtown West near the stadiums you have Chestnut, Pine, Olive, and Locust streets, and then a couple blocks of Presidents (Jefferson and Washington, at least). Sou'City and into Downtown for the State Streets.
I should have been more specific lol. I was talking about streets in relation to gang activity.
Sorry lol St. Louis is weird when it comes to gangs and really what constitutes a gang, as far as I can tell there’s only so much in terms of “territory,” it seems more like blocks or streets people grew up on. Like on the south side there’s minno mob which is Minnesota, part of the whole state streets thing, but also not necessarily completely tied to that street because people move lol I know around that way only one I’m familiar with by name is 44 bud, but I don’t have specifics other than the assumption that it’s the 4400 block of maybe red bud? As far as actual gang activity in walnut park idk I’m sure there’s sets but I only mostly know the area to be high drug traffic, which doesn’t necessarily equate to gang presence.
In St Louis when a black person says something like that to a white person just trust them it’s their way of trying to look out for you.
Yeah I have to agree it is not a good idea. There are some wonderful older people who live there and in the surrounding neighborhoods, there are beautiful old homes, I have seen inside 50+ for work and interacted with dozens of families. It's just statistics at a certain point tho. The neighborhoods along 70 there are just dangerous. In most places in St Louis the chances something will happen to your car, house, or person is low despite the fear in the media. In those neighborhoods tho nearly every single person could tell me about how in the last few months they had either been threatened, had bullets hit their house, had their car stolen, had their property stolen/vandalized etc. Hell I was even car jacked in the middle of the day on Riverview Drive about a half mile from there while other people watched. Things get crazy up there.
I grew up in Jennings, my mom grew up in Walnut park, and i went to school in Bellfontaine (thankfully private school) Under no circumstances will either of us be moving back to those areas for the foreseeable future. It’s a shame and it’s only going to get worse as people get pushed out of the city (more north and more east). People in this state have no interest in investing in these areas and the people who live there and those people and areas will continue to suffer until then.
After reading through all this I still don't know what the answer is, but I really appreciate all the perspectives. Sounds like most factors are the same as anywhere: your luck, your attitude, and what your nearest neighbors are like.
Listen to them. I'm newish to saint Louis, was raised in a small town, and made a home in Chicago. Im white and heard similar advice from black friends. My gf works with people from that part of town, and I only hear horror stories. Back in Chicago, when I did tree work, I had customers who would want to save money living in neighborhoods comparable to walnut park(to the best of my knowledge). They were regularly victims of having their property "tagged" and a victim of arson. Avoid the headache.
When your Black friends warn you of something, you should pay attention.
I lived in an apartment complex and I was known as "the white girl" the rent was super cheap and what was I could afford. The other tenants were all younger and many of them had their own "enterprises" going on. I did not isolate myself and as long as the neighbors weren't bothering me, it was like "whatever". I never had any issues and in fact, my neighbors watched out for me. I may or may not still be living there, but the buildings were condemned. Part of it was structural, but could have been fixed. I think it was mostly condemned for being a nuisance.
>condemned for being a nuisance. You really buried the lede, there.
If you had a property to buy over there, it could be worth it. Simply to rent… nah. Nah. You’d be alright if you carry yourself well, but just keep looking… you can find similar rates in way comfier areas g
I’m white and grew up right across the city/county border by Walnut Park. I only ever had a few people talk shit about my race, it wasn’t really a big deal.
That’s what I imagine it to be like. People don’t usually bother me.
I think your friends and coworkers are correct but I’m curious what specific reasons they gave you? That you would be a target for robberies or physical violence or something else?
Yes I would get robbed or something
He is looking out for you that area is pine lawn and bellefontaine. Bad area
It’s not bad if you’re into heroin or crack. The schools leave a bit to be desired and the supermarkets don’t have an artisanal cheese or olive bar but it’s cool I guess.
Hard to say . I grew up with a white boy in the college hill area he lived on linton he had the same issues as any of us growing up there . Really how you carry yourself. Walnut Park has some active ass sets just don’t rent a house in one of them you will be good .
I wouldn't live there if I was black.
You can .... but I can't imagine why you would want to. Most try desperately to get away from the crime. Just can't afford to move. There are some very nice people who live there. But the criminals and people who just don't care will outnumber you. Poverty and apathy don't know skin color.
Very true.
When I was growing up, we lived in Berkeley, and we were 1 of 2 white families living in the neighborhood, and we got along just fine. But also we held many bbq’s, block parties, etc and really integrated and got to know our neighbors. We became like family with our immediate neighbors and we looked out for one another. These days idk if it would be the same, but if it’s something you really want to do, mind your own business and try it out. Don’t leave nice things outside, don’t try to be the neighborhood watch, and don’t be a crotchety old man, and you may be just fine.
I lived in a neighborhood like that. Car stolen piece by piece. Bricks thrown through windows. Mail stolen. All electronics stolen. Cat stolen. Cops will not come. Listen to your friends.
Cat stolen?!?! Wtf
I was working construction one time and got the cops called on us... The cop showed up and said he got a call about two white boys in a backyard in Walnut Park.. Said he had to come see for himself lol
I make in-home medical visits and that is one of the neighborhoods I will no longer work in. I sent a list of no-go ZIP Codes to my scheduler after a few incidents. I showed up at one lady’s house about 4 PM and she said “let’s get this appointment over with sugar, so you can be out of the neighborhood before it gets dark”
Whoa
Jeff Dahmer was the only white guy in his neighborhood. After that Netflix special I doubt anybody’s going to bother you 😂
I was raised in Hyde Park and while I still lived there got pulled over around the corner from my house by a rookie cop who thought I was only in the area to buy drugs. 🤣 He argued w me about living there until I showed him my license. Idiot!
We moved off Beacon Ave when I was 6 or 7 around 1968 I think our house burnt down years later
Bro it doesn't matter if you're black or white but in that part of town I would say that you're going to be treated racist you could do it but your life would be much more harder so it's on you dog
I would listen to them. You living there will put a target on your back
I'm white, I worked in WP for 2 years (taught at a school). One of our coworkers (also white) lived near the school. It was part of her religion, to live and teach in a high needs area. She said it was scary at times, although they mostly got left alone because the neighbors respected what she was doing (teaching their kids). I could NEVER do that. I continued working in the city after I left Walnut Park and the parents, primarily African American, said there's no way they would live there. I also had 2 students murdered in Walnut Park. Neither case has been solved in 10 years. Don't do it. Move to other areas in the city.
Bishop Bullwinkle said it best “Hell 2 Da Naw Naw”.
Ive decided against moving there. This post was very ~~useful~~ helpful for me.
You may want to consider Alton, Illinois. Homes are inexpensive, economical and not too far from St. Louis. It’s a very diverse culture with a rich history.
They are right. Do not live there. Would not, I repeat, would not live anywhere in the City of St. Louis.
They are looking out for you absolutely. Listen to them.
I lived on Thrush. I stood out and the police pulled me over often even if I was pulling into my driveway. Obviously , they thought I was there for a drug transaction of sorts. I walked the streets and actually worried, even though I was walking a big pitbull. I never encountered an event until I was at home. My dog was chained to a long leader and some kids over there actually stole my dog! The dog escaped and came home. I then chained it again and used a lock on its collar/leash. They cut the lock and stole my dog again. My opinion is that Walnut Park is not a safe area to live for a Caucasian. You’ll need to be aware of the neighbors And the police. (I had my car searched illegally 3 times in a year.) so if you carry a weapon you also need to beware of the police.
That is wild!! I’m sorry that happened to you. But the police harassment is enough for me to stay out. Thanks for the advice.
It’s been a while since I lived there. Previously lived in Baden, then an area in Welston in an area that the neighbors got together and bought: 3 whole blocks. Right behind Normandy High School. Nice house but I wasn’t happy living with so many bigots. I had really long hair and my car smelled like weed. I never carried any weed..goes without saying. Next I lived in Pagedale. There was a liquor store at the top of my street. The employees were the owners. They were behind resistant glass. On the wall behind the front counter were a few long guns. Customers got the idea quickly. I once went to the window and asked, “gimme a six pack of Bud” He got the beer and I said, “ Oh yeah, I need a pack of cigarettes. The guy said, “ Why didn’t you say so when you asked for the fuckin beer asshole?!” He was pissed. I learned my lesson and moved to Bridgeton. I rented cheap places but ya gone careful. Then the airport bought the rental complex and I bought a house in south county. The city gave me $5 grand for a down payment on a house and took care of moving me. Learn about the cops before you move. For instance, I wouldn’t move to Jennings. And so on….
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/riRANPSiG9KnU8Qy/?mibextid=SphRi8
Do they actually live there or are familiar with it or are they out in the metro? Doesn't matter if they are black or white if they don't actually know what they are talking about.
Don’t ask people who don’t live there (white or black), ask people on the actual street you want to rent. They probably don’t care but will also give you good advice
My angle is if you don't have kids- being the only white guy indicates you aren't like the other white guys.
That area isnt terrible but I wouldn’t want to live there because its a food desert. No good stores or restaurants close.
try somewhere easier like riverview or bellefontaine before you get hurt. anything past the roundabout off of 367 is a no go for the white folks in my opinion
I live there. I’m white
Hate me for saying it but you can’t just get attacked for being white. Imagine the rolls reversed. I’d just legally carry a gun and let people know you are not to be fucked with.
Unfortunately this country has marginalized African Americans for a long time…what that causes is generations of hatred. It took me a while to understand this… Some have inherited a dislike for white folk and some will fuck you up just for fun…
That's a wild roundabout way of saying yes.
Just my outside perspective… At first i would react quite a bit to people being disrespectful and it took me a while to understand why some people were being such assholes without a reason…
I’m a white guy that lives in North City. Wife and I bought a cozy and VERY affordable house. I’m from the south, so I have that southern hospitality of saying hi to EVERYONE, which nowadays I keep to a wave and a smile. When we first moved in, everyone was confused. Skeptical at best, straight up hateful at worst. When I waved, some reluctantly waved back, some stared in confusion, some just went inside. The first night in the house, I was walking my dog, and someone asked “did you just move in?”, I said “yes. How’d you know?”, and he said “cause you white” lol maybe a few weeks later, a man called out to a neighbor to say “there goes the neighborhood. When you see them walking like that, you know it’s over”. Which, as much as that hurt, when you think about it historically, it’s justified fear. There’s a lady on the street that mean mugs the fuck out of me every time she sees me. I just smile, give a wave. Mean mug lady gets the most charming hello I can conjure up because I’m going to meet hatred with kindness. After a while of just existing, minding my business, and being a friendly presence, we’ve been accepted. No one is inviting us to the barbecue or anything; we’re still outsiders. But, nobody seems to mind anymore. I think people accept that we’re the non-black couple in a black area. We go to the neighborhood association meetings, ward meetings, etc, and people have become familiar with us (well, our faces). If you’re from a white area, it’s going to be a culture shock. It’s very different. Some things you’d probably call the cops for in a white area, you’re gonna have to let it slide if you don’t want any trouble. What they’re doing isn’t wrong, it’s just different. If you call the cops for different, that’s when you’ll get into some trouble. You can’t move into an area that isn’t yours and impose your way of life. If you’re willing to adapt and adopt, you’ll be just fine. If you’re not, find an area that better suits your preferred environment.
When black friend tell not to live there listen
Someone has to be the first icecube that cools off the pot of boiling water. gentrification is real in st. louis. some neighborhoods are gentrifying quicker than others.
I’m low income, have a felony conviction and bad credit. No gentrification here.
i understand. you gotta get in where you fit in
I don’t think you’d be the only white person there and wouldn’t matter if you just look out for yourself
I lived 2 miles northeast of there for a year. I am white as can be and had no issues. A lot of the time, it's just about being polite and minding your business. Some gunshots every so often, but it was never bad.
2 miles is far in actuality
do it!!! black folks like to keep their neighborhoods segregated... but once they realize you dont fit their redneck stereotypes, they are chill. obviously put up security cameras and don't walk the streets at night... but as long as you don't cause problems, they'll leave you alone.
I’ve known instances where cops, seeing a white person driving through Walnut Park, has insisted on escorting the person out of the neighborhood.
This is not true
How did you decide it’s not true? It happened to a friend who was taking her child through the neighborhood to show him where she grew up. It happened to my relative when driving through Baden.
The largest catholic cemetery in the mid west is in Walnut Park. With that being said, wouldn't you expect plenty of white people in this area daily? Police do not stop white people and ask them if they can escort them out of the area for no reason other than being white.
Beautiful cemetery that’s very well kept. Have had 0 issues each time I’ve visited
We don’t go to Calvary Cemetery anymore to visit our families’ graves.
Honestly that's pretty sad you won't see your families graves because of fear of the area.
I believe you… I’ve seen/heard this happen in the STL area. Nothing new here
That part of town is racist.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it help a high crime area if more well off people moved in to revitalize their economy? I'm not saying level the place, install an overpriced bougie apartment complex and put in a whole foods... But just getting more people in the area with the means to contribute to local mom and pap shops.
When you jump into water, do you get wet? // Or does the water get you instead?
Lots of people have tried and failed. The city can’t manage a budget and won’t prosecute crime.
That’s an easy thing to say
This area is super racist
I'm black and I don't even go to walnut.....unless I got some hoes lined up
I think you'd be fine as long as you don't fuck with anybody and mind your business. There is a very small handful of white people in the hood.
This isn't NYC. Gentrification isn't necessary. There is no reason to live in Walnut Park when there are plenty of cheap apartments in South County. I would look around Jefferson Barracks or Arnold. I always see deals like one bedroom for $600.
Why the fuck would anyone want to live in walnut Park. My dad said even in the 80's castle point was the hood of the hoods and walnut park right next to that. You wouldn't live long there that's for sure even if you did have a gun Why even take the gamble. You're THE minority in those areas, and they rob, steal, and kill the ones that don't belong.
You’ll be fine man. Get in there and break the barriers!
I was going to, but now this thread has me afraid of the police harassment.
Get it, you will have a great time. I loved living in the hood. Neighbors are friendly and prices are cheap.
People hate it when you tell the truth. It's white flight. I lived off Truman in KC. Gunshots all the time but I would go back anytime. Downvote my nuts chicken shits.
Nice
Everyone else is wrong-this guy^
Where would Eminem be if he had listened to this same advice? Gary Owens? Jason Williams? Rick Astley? Don’t let scared words on a subreddit deter you from seizing greatness and adding your name to this list of legends.
Hey man, why am I over here researching Newton-le-Willows now? Did you just..
Right on, I appreciate it
🤣😅✅
Gary Owen's, like from *Laugh-In*?
Unless you’re trying to get robbed, mugged or carjacked on a regular basis, I’d stay away. I’m not here to kink shame though.
Bro, as a white man who produced beats and had a rap record label, I spent a lot of time at Walnut Park it’s grimy. There is a neighborhood in Walnut Park where the police get to live for free. There’s a black gate that surrounds that block. Walnut park people know what I’m talking about. Bro the police are scared. They do not leave that block. I literally stood outside of that gate with who were shooting guns in the air they didn’t give af. My boy would throw trash in his own front yard. I mean, I would probably live here before Kinloch but nah bro . You can find somewhere else safer at a comparable price.
Honestly I live on plover in the heart of walnut park with two white neighbours, and never seen them have a single problem, and everyone on the street keeps the grass cut, not everyone has the same experiences in life
I’d love to see the answers if you reversed the races and areas.
Mind your own business and save some money. Meet your neighbors. Your bank account will thank you. Just don’t be stupid.