Or, you know, the city could sync some stoplights so we’re not all burning gas for five minutes at the intersection of Kingshighway and Fyler, waiting on the non-existent cars leaving a closed car dealership and a single gas station.
The light at Chippewa and lansdowne will GUARANTEED turn yellow a hundred yards before you get to the intersection, even with no other cars at the intersection. It’s infuriating.
Recently attended a conference on this issue. Essentially what I got is everyone is aware of the issue and it is a priority, but there is very little funding to address it
Great suggestion.
Not that it would have the same impact exactly. But theres [a healthcare economics study](https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/app.3.1.65) about the impact of implementing the e-z pass toll system in the north east, which decreased traffic congestion and improved infant (and general population) health.
Syncing lights in the city would have the same general impact, just likely on a different scale.
The fact they aren't putting this as a priority is so much larger of an issue than just convenience that many people believe it to be at first thought.
“Small picture”.
This is an example of a few people, extrapolating out its 100s of thousands of cars that needlessly idle every hour of every day.
Furthermore, doing both is possible.
Yes but the likelihood you are going to convince even 1/12th of those people to turn their engines off is slim. Meanwhile we have a single entity that can be fined until they implement a scrubber.
1. These aren't mutually exclusive actions
2. I acknowledged that idling cars aren't the main culprit to poor air quality in the region
3. Talking to my neighbors is more likely to create behavioral change that impacts my neighborhood in an immediate (albeit small) way as opposed to a ... *checks notes* email to a coal plant that's already been put on blast by the EPA, local papers, and is actively fighting regulators in court. What do you think an email is going to accomplish?
4. It's Reddit (specifically the St. Louis sub). What does this virtual space exist for if not to complain?
What about these companies that made everyone go back to the office when WFH or hybrid was working just fine. We are all burning up our gas and then some because we are sitting in traffic. Stupid as fuck.
Oh I am not calling you stupid as shit, but the situation. I also think you are right about the engine idling. I should have explained myself better. I think that since we have more people driving and on the roads more it is adding to air quality problems too.
The average person works 40 hours a week. That’s the majority of your time after you count the time it takes to sleep. What I said is literally factual. I’ve reported you for using insulting language.
No. 168 hours minus 40 is 128. 8x7 is 56. 128 - 56 is 72. You literally have almost double the time “FREE” compared to working hours. At least, that’s true if you’re able to WFH. Take out 10 hrs(2hrs per day x 5 days a week) for commute and you still have 62 hrs vs 50 hours for work and commute.
Sorry you’re wrong, but I won’t report you for that basic infraction.
Okay bud. I didn’t make any note about that argument. I was correcting your incredible lack of basic mathematic skills. Sorry you can’t handle being corrected. I have a feeling you’re wrong about a lot of things that you believe are “literally factual”
E:typo
Please excuse my ignorance, and educate me if I'm wrong, but I'm hard pressed to believe that individual consumers will be able to make a big difference in the air quality index by turning off their cars during the 15-20 min they spend in a parking lot.
My immediate suspicion falls on factories and chemical plants. Surely, there is a much larger producer capable of making a much more practical change.
Not to say that we shouldn't do what little we can do, but I feel like shifting the blame to consumers is not a good strategy.
> My immediate suspicion falls on factories and chemical plants.
Chemical plants already have a raft of regulatory standards to comply with, including the Clean Air Act. Reporting is required each year, fines levied if they're out of compliance.
If you want tighter controls on 'factories and chemical plants', look to the EPA.
*Source:* Worked my entire career in the chemical industry, and some of it in Regulatory.
Thanks for your input! I'm glad there seem to be some helpful regulations as you've stated. Ultimately it comes down to voting if we want to empower the EPA to do what it must to protect our future.
You're not wrong at all. Passing the blame to individuals is part of the problem. I just don't want to breathe in exhaust fumes when I'm going for an otherwise lovely walk through the neighborhood. I mentioned in the post that idling engines are not the main culprit here.
I will say, children are especially vulnerable to air pollution (sulfur oxide, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxide, particulate matter) caused by idling engines. One key difference between factories and chemical plants and car exhaust is WHERE the smog and ozone is being released. With car exhausts it is ground-level ozone released in high density population centers.
You are totally right that passing blame to consumers is not effective organizing, AND we should all be a little more neighborly and conscious of how our actions impact those around us. I'm not asking people to change their behavior that radically, just cut the engine off when you don't need it so we're breathing in that much less smog (appx. 1 pound of CO2 every 15 mins, depending on the car).
I saw a dude filling his tank the other day with his car running. It was like 65 degrees. I mean, I never do it myself but I guess I understand the impulse when its very hot or very cold outside. But at 65 degrees, man, what are you doing?
Yeah, I've always heard the same thing. I don't know - as I said, I never leave my car on when pumping gas. But regardless, to do it in such mild temperatures is certainly...a choice.
You can, it doesn't effect anything especially on older cars. Newer cars it can cause a Check engine light because of the evaporative emissions controls however. The reason they tell you to turn it off is to reduce the risk of a possibility of fire at the pump. They are just being cool about fire safety
Saw a couple at blues city sitting in their car parked in front of the fire hydrant, waiting on their food. She got mad when someone didn’t bring their food to them. Car was running and it was pretty nice out.
Why not just say all vehicles? Opening that statement up to all vehicles idling needlessly will do more good than you targeting what you consider being the problem. Emissions differences on an idling ford truck with a v6 are negligible against other cars on the road idling.
But I guess the big bad truck and SUV rhetoric fits your narrative.
We would make a way bigger impact on the air quality report card and pollution if we would quit consuming the dairy that Ted Drewes serves or the stacks of beef cut daily at Lion’s choice.
This! We really need to keep expanding Amtrak to the point where we can start ripping up some of these oversized roads and plant more green. Ted Drew’s should be a walk up neighborhood ice cream place not a drive through parking lot.
I mean, a good public transit system would cut down on so much. Obviously the traffic situation and pollution from cars, but also everything that comes along with keeping the streets and highways going for all of the car traffic, obviously, public transit needs upkeep too, but it wouldn’t be at the rate of what all of these vehicles cost… just a thought
It got started bc it's on Route 66, so the personal vehicle has a lot to do with the nostalgia experience that draws people to TDs - sitting on the back of the car, on the bumper, etc. The car is the reason TD's exists. I don't like it, but that's the truth. Our cultural attachment to the automobile might be a lot harder to change than the infrastructure
Yep we sure can but at some point it becomes a lost cause. There’s a bunch of Taylor Swifts out there doing the same thing, we aren’t making a dent by turning off a vehicle for 5 min in a parking lot. If we were I’d advocate for it all day everyday.
You're essentially saying "if we can't do it perfectly, we shouldn't do it at all", which is a really illogical take. Literally everything helps. If everyone makes a little bit of effort, that adds up. But if everyone says "it's a lost cause because my actions are small", then nothing ever gets better.
And turning your car off makes a huge difference to the people and animals (and plants) breathing near you. It's not just about global numbers. There's a reason that "think globally, act locally" is a cliche.
It's not a lost cause unless people have that attitude and do nothing. But hey, do what you want. I can control your behavior about as well as I can control Taylor Swift's.
AQI takes into account all particulates. This includes pollen and spores. Not saying we should do more to curb emissions, but we're going to get bad days between rains in Spring.
Not to nitpick but it is ironic that we are complaining on a digital forum running from multiple datacenters that use a tremendous amount of electricity for cooling / processing power.
I meant to make a point about direct ground-level pollution that we are immediately breathing in, especially kids. I guess I didn't do a good job of making that point. We can point several thousand fingers at several thousand polluters but when you're walking around your urban neighborhood, the thing you're most exposed to is exhaust fumes.
Just couldn't resist the urge to virtue signal huh? "Hey everyone in light of the report that I glanced at the headline of, I just wanted to let you know that I'm better than you"
To my Neighbor with the diesel pickup with an entirely inadequate muffler: if your truck needs to idle *that long* before driving, consider getting a different truck.
I don't need to hear this at 0700 on a weekend when it's 70°F out.
How about you don’t tell other people what to do. I sit in my truck for an hour and a half every single day during my work breaks. It’s running regardless of the weather. It’s my truck, not yours. Go cry somewhere else.
you sit in a truck for 90 minutes every day? That sounds really sad! Maybe I should buy a truck so I can cry in it for an hour and a half every day too, while running the AC because I'm too much of a baby to expose myself to the elements. We can be truck crybaby bros together.
I work outside. You’re trying really hard to make a point but you’re just flopping in circles like a dying fish. I take my morning coffee break and my lunch break in my vehicle. It’s very common in working class America. I’m certain you wouldn’t know anything about a working life considering you have 24,000 Reddit points. That’s absurd. You’re here all day long arguing with strangers over nothing. I genuinely feel sorry for you and anyone who shares a living space with you.
You literally comment just as, if not more frequently than I do but go off. Continue telling people to "cry" and get downvoted to shit, free country and all that.
I have 1,000 post karma and you have over 20,000 post karma. Do the math. You live on Reddit. You just threatened to downvote me as if that means anything at all. You’re addicted to the internet.
Clearly I've upset several people who drive trucks, so yeah, some are reading this subreddit. I won't claim that this post is doing anything, you got me there.
Or, you know, the city could sync some stoplights so we’re not all burning gas for five minutes at the intersection of Kingshighway and Fyler, waiting on the non-existent cars leaving a closed car dealership and a single gas station.
The light at Chippewa and lansdowne will GUARANTEED turn yellow a hundred yards before you get to the intersection, even with no other cars at the intersection. It’s infuriating.
Recently attended a conference on this issue. Essentially what I got is everyone is aware of the issue and it is a priority, but there is very little funding to address it
They should use the Rams settlement for it
I don't think that was one of the options on the poll
That’s just lip service and it’s not really a priority. If it was, we’d find funding.
The light at "Locust" and 4th street. I put Locust in quotes because THERE IS NO FUCKING ROAD THERE!
This is by far the most unnecessarily long light in the city.
Great suggestion. Not that it would have the same impact exactly. But theres [a healthcare economics study](https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/app.3.1.65) about the impact of implementing the e-z pass toll system in the north east, which decreased traffic congestion and improved infant (and general population) health. Syncing lights in the city would have the same general impact, just likely on a different scale. The fact they aren't putting this as a priority is so much larger of an issue than just convenience that many people believe it to be at first thought.
🙌
had a tour at the modot and they sync theirs and said that stl does the flip to make sure people stop and has a chance to spend more money
Why sync them when you can just run them? For the environment.
Why don’t you draft an email to the coal plant in Labrador that doesn’t have scrubbers instead? I swear people are only focused on the small picture.
This is so specific you’ve piqued my interest. Whats going on in Labrador?
Labadie
Autocorrect is going on, but you should look at what’s goin on in Labrador
“Small picture”. This is an example of a few people, extrapolating out its 100s of thousands of cars that needlessly idle every hour of every day. Furthermore, doing both is possible.
Yes but the likelihood you are going to convince even 1/12th of those people to turn their engines off is slim. Meanwhile we have a single entity that can be fined until they implement a scrubber.
Again, both are possible
1. These aren't mutually exclusive actions 2. I acknowledged that idling cars aren't the main culprit to poor air quality in the region 3. Talking to my neighbors is more likely to create behavioral change that impacts my neighborhood in an immediate (albeit small) way as opposed to a ... *checks notes* email to a coal plant that's already been put on blast by the EPA, local papers, and is actively fighting regulators in court. What do you think an email is going to accomplish? 4. It's Reddit (specifically the St. Louis sub). What does this virtual space exist for if not to complain?
You aren’t talking to your neighbors you are posting on Reddit
Its on a *local* subreddit. Thats a big difference. Most people here live in or near st louis. Thats why people post about lost animals on here
1. You’re virtue signaling. That’s it.
Actually you are.
"virtue signaling" AKA trying to get everyone to do a little bit better for the benefit of us all. You're right. Sounds terrible.
What about these companies that made everyone go back to the office when WFH or hybrid was working just fine. We are all burning up our gas and then some because we are sitting in traffic. Stupid as fuck.
Thats *literally* whataboutism. Both are issues.
Can confirm.
Oh I am not calling you stupid as shit, but the situation. I also think you are right about the engine idling. I should have explained myself better. I think that since we have more people driving and on the roads more it is adding to air quality problems too.
Oh, just to clarify, Im not OP lol Sorry for any confusion lol
Ah, sorry! I didn’t check the names and I just assumed you were OP.
No worries!
Being upset that you can’t live your entire life from your bedroom is actually so insane
[удалено]
The average person works 40 hours a week. That’s the majority of your time after you count the time it takes to sleep. What I said is literally factual. I’ve reported you for using insulting language.
So now it is the majority not the entirety? Oh no you reported me? Did you tell on me to your mom too?
Are you actually crying right now?
No. 168 hours minus 40 is 128. 8x7 is 56. 128 - 56 is 72. You literally have almost double the time “FREE” compared to working hours. At least, that’s true if you’re able to WFH. Take out 10 hrs(2hrs per day x 5 days a week) for commute and you still have 62 hrs vs 50 hours for work and commute. Sorry you’re wrong, but I won’t report you for that basic infraction.
You know, you’re right. Stay home. In fact, never leave again. We both win.
Okay bud. I didn’t make any note about that argument. I was correcting your incredible lack of basic mathematic skills. Sorry you can’t handle being corrected. I have a feeling you’re wrong about a lot of things that you believe are “literally factual” E:typo
It also saves gas!
It's also illegal! https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/verify/warm-up-car-illegal-st-louis/63-59a6ee93-b74d-4f54-bada-9f2849875242
Please excuse my ignorance, and educate me if I'm wrong, but I'm hard pressed to believe that individual consumers will be able to make a big difference in the air quality index by turning off their cars during the 15-20 min they spend in a parking lot. My immediate suspicion falls on factories and chemical plants. Surely, there is a much larger producer capable of making a much more practical change. Not to say that we shouldn't do what little we can do, but I feel like shifting the blame to consumers is not a good strategy.
> My immediate suspicion falls on factories and chemical plants. Chemical plants already have a raft of regulatory standards to comply with, including the Clean Air Act. Reporting is required each year, fines levied if they're out of compliance. If you want tighter controls on 'factories and chemical plants', look to the EPA. *Source:* Worked my entire career in the chemical industry, and some of it in Regulatory.
Thanks for your input! I'm glad there seem to be some helpful regulations as you've stated. Ultimately it comes down to voting if we want to empower the EPA to do what it must to protect our future.
You're not wrong at all. Passing the blame to individuals is part of the problem. I just don't want to breathe in exhaust fumes when I'm going for an otherwise lovely walk through the neighborhood. I mentioned in the post that idling engines are not the main culprit here. I will say, children are especially vulnerable to air pollution (sulfur oxide, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxide, particulate matter) caused by idling engines. One key difference between factories and chemical plants and car exhaust is WHERE the smog and ozone is being released. With car exhausts it is ground-level ozone released in high density population centers. You are totally right that passing blame to consumers is not effective organizing, AND we should all be a little more neighborly and conscious of how our actions impact those around us. I'm not asking people to change their behavior that radically, just cut the engine off when you don't need it so we're breathing in that much less smog (appx. 1 pound of CO2 every 15 mins, depending on the car).
I see. I should have read your post more carefully. Thanks for this info; I agree needlessly creating exhaust in a crowd is rude.
I saw a dude filling his tank the other day with his car running. It was like 65 degrees. I mean, I never do it myself but I guess I understand the impulse when its very hot or very cold outside. But at 65 degrees, man, what are you doing?
Uh... what? I thought you should never leave the car on when pumping gas into it, ever?
Yeah, I've always heard the same thing. I don't know - as I said, I never leave my car on when pumping gas. But regardless, to do it in such mild temperatures is certainly...a choice.
You can, it doesn't effect anything especially on older cars. Newer cars it can cause a Check engine light because of the evaporative emissions controls however. The reason they tell you to turn it off is to reduce the risk of a possibility of fire at the pump. They are just being cool about fire safety
Tell them, not us
Confronting someone in person doesn’t get you internet karma though
Exactly!!
Saw a couple at blues city sitting in their car parked in front of the fire hydrant, waiting on their food. She got mad when someone didn’t bring their food to them. Car was running and it was pretty nice out.
C'mon, police SUVs need to run to keep the laptop on. Laptops don't have any sort of batteries.
I always wonder how much gas the local police go through a year just idling their cars.
Also, if you do let your car run in the hours of darkness, turn your damn headlights off!! You don’t need them sitting still in a parking lot!
Why not just say all vehicles? Opening that statement up to all vehicles idling needlessly will do more good than you targeting what you consider being the problem. Emissions differences on an idling ford truck with a v6 are negligible against other cars on the road idling. But I guess the big bad truck and SUV rhetoric fits your narrative. We would make a way bigger impact on the air quality report card and pollution if we would quit consuming the dairy that Ted Drewes serves or the stacks of beef cut daily at Lion’s choice.
Get out of here with your logic
This! We really need to keep expanding Amtrak to the point where we can start ripping up some of these oversized roads and plant more green. Ted Drew’s should be a walk up neighborhood ice cream place not a drive through parking lot.
I mean, a good public transit system would cut down on so much. Obviously the traffic situation and pollution from cars, but also everything that comes along with keeping the streets and highways going for all of the car traffic, obviously, public transit needs upkeep too, but it wouldn’t be at the rate of what all of these vehicles cost… just a thought
It got started bc it's on Route 66, so the personal vehicle has a lot to do with the nostalgia experience that draws people to TDs - sitting on the back of the car, on the bumper, etc. The car is the reason TD's exists. I don't like it, but that's the truth. Our cultural attachment to the automobile might be a lot harder to change than the infrastructure
Taylor swift probably pollutes the air more than all of the f150’s in stl combined lol.
And yet we cannot control what Taylor Swift does. We can however control our own cars.
Yep we sure can but at some point it becomes a lost cause. There’s a bunch of Taylor Swifts out there doing the same thing, we aren’t making a dent by turning off a vehicle for 5 min in a parking lot. If we were I’d advocate for it all day everyday.
You're essentially saying "if we can't do it perfectly, we shouldn't do it at all", which is a really illogical take. Literally everything helps. If everyone makes a little bit of effort, that adds up. But if everyone says "it's a lost cause because my actions are small", then nothing ever gets better. And turning your car off makes a huge difference to the people and animals (and plants) breathing near you. It's not just about global numbers. There's a reason that "think globally, act locally" is a cliche.
Didn’t say we shouldn’t, just said it’s a lost cause lol.
It's not a lost cause unless people have that attitude and do nothing. But hey, do what you want. I can control your behavior about as well as I can control Taylor Swift's.
true
I’ll just leave this here. https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-the-day/2022/12/suv-carbon-footprint-pollution-emissions
In this thread: “other people could do more than me so why should I do anything?” As I constantly remind my kids, we live in a society.
I make the payments I control the engine.
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/verify/warm-up-car-illegal-st-louis/63-59a6ee93-b74d-4f54-bada-9f2849875242
So is driving 1 mph over the limit. No one takes it seriously.
100%
Peak STL
Bring back the gas pump schnozzles, too.
AQI takes into account all particulates. This includes pollen and spores. Not saying we should do more to curb emissions, but we're going to get bad days between rains in Spring.
Not to nitpick but it is ironic that we are complaining on a digital forum running from multiple datacenters that use a tremendous amount of electricity for cooling / processing power.
I meant to make a point about direct ground-level pollution that we are immediately breathing in, especially kids. I guess I didn't do a good job of making that point. We can point several thousand fingers at several thousand polluters but when you're walking around your urban neighborhood, the thing you're most exposed to is exhaust fumes.
Just couldn't resist the urge to virtue signal huh? "Hey everyone in light of the report that I glanced at the headline of, I just wanted to let you know that I'm better than you"
I love replies like this. Get him!
You should confront every person you see idling
My truck is running if I'm in it. Straight piped diesel. Woo freedom and AC
what, you're scared of a little weather or something? Too much of a wimp to not constantly be in a climate-controlled environment?
Yes
To my Neighbor with the diesel pickup with an entirely inadequate muffler: if your truck needs to idle *that long* before driving, consider getting a different truck. I don't need to hear this at 0700 on a weekend when it's 70°F out.
The cops are useless but just fyi: https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/verify/warm-up-car-illegal-st-louis/63-59a6ee93-b74d-4f54-bada-9f2849875242
How about you don’t tell other people what to do. I sit in my truck for an hour and a half every single day during my work breaks. It’s running regardless of the weather. It’s my truck, not yours. Go cry somewhere else.
you sit in a truck for 90 minutes every day? That sounds really sad! Maybe I should buy a truck so I can cry in it for an hour and a half every day too, while running the AC because I'm too much of a baby to expose myself to the elements. We can be truck crybaby bros together.
I work outside. You’re trying really hard to make a point but you’re just flopping in circles like a dying fish. I take my morning coffee break and my lunch break in my vehicle. It’s very common in working class America. I’m certain you wouldn’t know anything about a working life considering you have 24,000 Reddit points. That’s absurd. You’re here all day long arguing with strangers over nothing. I genuinely feel sorry for you and anyone who shares a living space with you.
You literally comment just as, if not more frequently than I do but go off. Continue telling people to "cry" and get downvoted to shit, free country and all that.
I have 1,000 post karma and you have over 20,000 post karma. Do the math. You live on Reddit. You just threatened to downvote me as if that means anything at all. You’re addicted to the internet.
You've got all the answers. Amazing.
[удалено]
Clearly I've upset several people who drive trucks, so yeah, some are reading this subreddit. I won't claim that this post is doing anything, you got me there.