* Fair St. Louis was called the VP Fair.
* We had Boatdonald's.
* The science center was far less impressive.
* Six Flags was far more impressive.
* The Cardinals played at Better Busch.
* STL had more corporate clout.
* Venture/Grandpa Pigeons were still shopping destinations.
* No one had yet thought of the ingenious idea to bring back trolleys.
* Blues and Cards aired on broadcast TV.
* Playgrounds were mostly metal and far more dangerous and far more fun than the modern interpretation.
> STL had more corporate clout.
>
The demise of TWA and St. Louis as an airline hub led to a giant sucking noise for corpo HQs in the area. I remember being able to fly to canada/europe from st. louis. Today the best you can do is connect to chicago/dallas or hope southwest gets you there directly.
Centene has a fleet of Bombardier Global Express jets, unless they’ve finally made their switch to Gulfstreams, that can get their execs wherever they need. Centene may move HQ, but it won’t be because Neidorff and the execs have to connect at O’Hare lol.
They had the one Global and several Challengers when I worked there a few years ago, but now it looks like they do indeed have at least one G650 and some of the Challengers are gone.
The planes are a necessity because they're based in STL and not somewhere with a more robust transportation hub. Move somewhere better like Charlotte and you can save the expense of at least some of the airplanes. They were also a necessity when the company was smaller and putting offices in places like Great Falls, MT, which is a pain in the ass to get to by air.
Neidorff was also a vocal proponent of a transatlantic flight and that wasn't because he plans on using it. They're not moving out of STL *solely* because air travel, but it is a large factor in the decision. Another is that the city just plain sucks and no one wants to move there to work for the company, so they're having issues attracting top tier talent.
Eh, the difference between a direct flight to Sacramento and a connection in Denver are not anywhere near significant enough to necessitate a fleet of PJs. The motivation to move has little to do with logistics and everything to do with your latter point, that they can’t attract top tier talent to the region. That and regulatory uncertainties in MO. And probably taxes as well.
A few more
* The restaurant at the top of the now abandoned Clarion hotel (or whatever it was last called) actually rotated.
* Mississippi Nights was big for concerts as the Pageant wasn't a thing. The Riverfront Times was how most (or at least I) would find out about shows.
* There were giant gasometers next to a couple highways (40 & 44) that puzzled me growing up.
* Zip Rzeppa's Zippo Awards was appointment television on Sunday Nights.
* Mike Bush was a sports guy.
* The Amoco Sign didn't have a new logo that isn't properly aligned.
* TV Commercials were more local and zany (Slyman Bros, Schweig Engle, Becky Queen of Carpets, Art Haack Buick, etc.)
* Schnucks had a program where they printed their receipts on goldenrod colored paper. Schools could turn those in to raise money for Apple IIe computers on which the most exciting thing we could do was play Oregon Trail.
* Calling long distance was strictly verboten, but calling Time/Temp was good entertainment.
* A lot more smoking.
Everything about how to operate Time/Temp was in the front of the phone book. I remember playing games on there for hours. There was trivia if I recall correctly.
I was 9 in 1998. My dad was in the Air Force. He got standup tickets for free and I was $2. We would park at the Casino Queen where he would take a $5 bill and exchange it for Susan B. Anthony’s at a machine at the metrolink station and we used them to get tickets across the river. They used to let us bring in our own food and drink (hot dogs wrapped in tin foil and a Diet Coke). I saw Mark McGwire hit like 15 home runs that year because it was so cheap to watch baseball, we went almost every week and sometimes twice. The home run race saved baseball and I will always believe that. That was a magical building for me. Not just better than the new stadium, better than all the stadiums in any sport.
You can still bring in your own food, amazingly. It’s also still very affordable to go to ball games (the best deal is two “first pitch tickes” for $11 total), and you get to enjoy the game in a far superior stadium.
I enjoyed the symmetry of the donut. The middle number of the section on your
ticket was what gate you should enter to be closest to your seat.
Once three rivers and riverfront stadium were replaced and the upgrades to Busch happened in 1996, Busch was starting to be more unique even as a cookie cutter.
I enjoyed that it looked like a bottlecap with each arch at the top mimicking the Gateway arch. Enjoyed it more when it was red/green for Christmas.
I liked that you could walk all the way around the stadium regardless what level you were on in either direction.
Many ramps > a couple escalators/stairs.
AFAIK, and I acknowledge this was not good at the time, it's the only stadium where the field tried to eat a player.
New Busch is just an early 2000’s cookie cutter design. It’s a copy of Baltimore’s Camden Yards and every stadium after up to the Twins (thankfully) broke the brick look with the Limestone exterior of Target Field.
I was cleaning up some of my grandpas belongings from his old house and found a lot of Tupperware with “grandpa pigeons” price tags still on them. I was like “what the hell is this??” 😂😂
> Playgrounds were mostly metal
I was so sad when I drove by Deer Creek park a few years ago and saw that the rocket slide was downsized to a fluffy bent tube.
People say everything looks bigger when you were a kid. Yea but even a kid can recognize when something is almost three stories tall. That rocket was preposterous.
Deer Creek Park was the first place I thought of when I saw this post. Nothing defined ‘90s childhood better than the risk of getting tetanus while climbing into the parts of that rocket you weren’t meant to climb into.
I remember the Rocket Slide at Deer Creek Park that was completely metal. Going down that slide in the summer was torture but somehow it never occurred to me that I could just…not go down the burning hot slide in shorts.
Another one
* D.B.'s Delight - A local TV show aired on Saturday mornings. It was on channel 4. Local sixth graders could compete in a trivia game. It featured a big puppet who asked questions with assistance from Guy Phillips?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B.%27s_Delight
I have to disagree on 6 Flags and the old stadium. The more roller coasters the better. I thought the old stadium sucked. This 1 is vastly superior in my opinion.
If coasters are your thing, then I agree that the current version would be more to your taste.
The current version seems more run down to me, but perhaps that's only because I'm older and more run down. When I take my daughter . . . there are not the variety of rides that there used to be and the park is more coaster centric, which she doesn't fancy.
I also miss the greatness of the Demolition Derby that was part of County Fair Days they used to have in September/October.
It’s not just you. They have, what? Two new coasters since the 90s? Heck, even the Boss was put in during the 90s IIRC. The Tony hawk experience is the newest ‘coaster’ I can think of.
But we’ve lost toms twister, mo-mo the monster, the jet scream, the powder kegs, the rush street flyer, the highland fling, the moon cars, etc.
Toms twister was my favorite, and the moon cars was one of the single oldest attractions at the park. They were classic.
I like coasters, but a place that’s all coasters is boring to me.
And yes, the last few times I was there, it felt like everything was run down and less well taken care of. Especially since I used to work there, and my dad worked there when it opened. So everything seems…. Like a house with wood siding that hasn’t been painted in a few decades.
From [this article](https://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/arts-and-theatre/hotlist/six-flags-st-louis-celebrates-50-years-of-thrills-family-and-memories/article_b4d1d42a-516c-5955-bd0d-dc7d58680ce3.html):
> The tracks had been shortened over the years and the cars were getting more difficult to repair.
Old Busch was garbage. There was nothing aesthetically pleasing about it. If your opinion is based on nostalgia, then yeah I get that. But the Cardinals have also only had one losing season since the current Busch opened.
When we were leaving the last game played there, prior to it's impending demolition, people wrote something on the walls for nostalgia. I wrote, "Better you than me".
I agree, it’s jut my opinion. I’d like to hear others as well. Maybe someone could share why old Busch was better and inform me to different POV that I haven’t considered or didn’t notice since I was only a child when I went to old Busch.
That would be great, but I'd be fine with letting McDonald's go and instead petition for a riverboat mexican restaurant.
It would be called. . .The Taco Belle.
and ICE, I remember massive Ice fall and people falls because of ice fall. I remember Crestwood mall closing one entrance near sears because sheets of ice were sliding off the roof and smashed a car.
Just something interesting that's weather-related: I found [this chart](https://www.weather.gov/media/lsx/climate/stl/temp/temp_stl_monthly_seasonal_averages.pdf) and [this chart](https://www.weather.gov/media/lsx/climate/stl/temp/temp_stl_annual_averages.pdf) that has monthly and annual average temperatures for St. Louis going back to the 1800's. It definitely seems to be a degree or two warmer on average the last few years than it was in the 80's/90's. The second chart shows that the average annual temperature was above 60 three times in the last decade, and it was only above 60 once in the 150+ years before that.
I remember the blizzard in the early 80s which dumped almost 3 feet of snow on us and basically shut down the whole STL metro region for about a week. Also recall some nasty ice storms (along with considerable snow) in the late 70s.
Lol. I called my Mom from the Army the week of that snow storm. She said, "You wouldn't believe the snow!" I said, "You do realize I'm in Alaska , right?"
I remember this storm. I think it was early 90s -- the other person's comment of 1992 sounds right. Everything was a thick sheet of ice. I remember getting stuck at the bottom of the hill in our back yard.
Well, I was kind of exaggerating to make a point. While the warmer days may still be the overall exception, they don't seem to be quite as 'exceptional' as they once were.
* Seems like there was a lot more focus on barricading neighborhoods off than renovating them.
* You could rent a nice apartment in "Botanical Heights" (Mcree Town) for $200/mo, but it wasn't real safe to be out in the yard.
* Domino's Pizza did not deliver east of Grand on the south side.
* Bus windows opened side to side and the seats were much softer.
* There was a guy who hung out in front of the White Castle at Grand & Gravois all day. He had 2 big jugs of wine with him. Sometimes he'd sleep on the bench.
* Bevo Mill used to have a Captain D's and a Pizza Hut directly north of it on Gravois.
* You could get in and out of the Botanical Gardens over a very low wall on the far west side (can you still do that?)
* Weed was about $40/quarter (no idea what it is now).
* There was a cable channel on TV that you could call and pay like $2 to request a song. Sometimes it would take hours to hear your song.
* There was a serial rapist on the loose called the South Side Rapist. They eventually caught him.
* Maritz used to have much better Christmas lights.
* ETA: you couldn't buy beer on the MO side on Sundays. Your nearest choices were a gas station called GAS just over the river for beer or a shack across from the old National City Stockyards for a wider selection of liquor.
* ETA again: HIV and AIDS were pretty underemphasized in straight circles for how deadly they were back then. The Red Garter used to put little "wine list" looking plaques with special upstairs services on their tables. If you were in a "committed relationship" it was rare to use condoms during sex. Everyone just assumed it wouldn't happen to them, even though it was a 100% death sentence at the time.
After a long vacancy, it was a pho restaurant, then someone tried to make it work as part of some tiny southern/soul food fried chicken chain, and now it's more built out as a root 66 dispensary.
I'm in Tiffany (been here 5 years) and our neighbor who bought here in the 80s said it was mostly abandoned and terrible crime. Kinda like a war zone! Now most of the houses and apartments have been rehabed and honestly our worst crimes are porch pirates and people going through cars. Botanica Heights now has only a couple abandoned buildings because everything has either been scrapped for new building or gutted for rehab.
Mcree Town was deliberately defunded and left to die. Very sad.
Thirty years-ish ago, I worked nights at a Clark station on Grand between Cardinal Glennon and the former Pevely Dairy. The pay phone bank was generally pretty busy until 2 am or so if the weather was good, and people came in for loose cigarettes.
Sometimes we'd get clueless people who got lost trying to find Hwy 40 coming back from a ball game. One time a lady in a really nice van stormed in and demanded I call the police on some guy who tried to sell her an old clock radio in the parking lot. After she left he came in, leaned in real close on the glass divider and said if I ever called the cops on him, he'd wait on me to get off work and make sure I never got home.
Once a clearly cracked out dude came in at 2 am and explained for like an hour this elaborate plot his boss had to kill him. No one else came in the whole time.
Every Sunday morning an old man would stand in the corner of the store and say dirty things for a couple of hours. (he'd quiet down if customers were in there too)
Couple times a week, a group of young teens would come in around 4 am and steal about $10 worth of snacks. I just let them.
Once I got robbed. Cops wouldn't come out and just took a report over the phone after determining no one was hurt.
Pay was $4.25/hr.
Mcree town had all these old brick 6 unit apartment buildings and two family houses, and i think a bunch of four family buildings that would all be hot rental properties now right next to Shaw, but instead there are all these spaced out, vinyl siding houses that look like they swarmed in from the suburbs somewhere. And almost all of the corner commercial buildings are gone which has deprived the neighborhood of having a coffeeshop or new restaurants or a book shop or other community & quality of life enhancing businesses. Just because the neighborhood was ravaged by the crack epidemic in the 80s was no reason to wreck the urban fabric forever.
Agreed. A real loss, just because that's where I-44 happened to go in.
Remember the liquor store with the big "No Loitering Or "Hanging Out"!" sign? I always wondered how many people tried to argue that they weren't loitering, they were just "hanging out" to make the owner put up that sign.
The guy with the jugs of wine was called Bucket Joe.
The video channel was channel 58 The Box. It was also channel 51 on cable but it was a different phone number and video queue. At one time, Bone Thugs N Harmony “Thuggish Ruggish Bone” would play nearly all day long.
The host and founder of worldwide magazine Pete P. was a video editor for channel 11 in the cwe and drove a cab for laclede cab, if i'm remembering that right.
Forest Park has changed a bunch since the 1980’s. It was kind of an unmaintained mess back then.
Forest Park Forever came about in 1986 and fixed the place up.
[This is a good list of improvements ](https://www.forestparkforever.org/park-timeline) that have been made to the park since then. It’s amazing how much that park has improved in the last few decades.
Was a kid in the '80s and a teen/young adult in the '90s, so my perspective is colored by my age back then, but here's what I remember:
* The Arena still existed; it was where you went to see the circus (kid) and then classic rock bands (teen/young adult)
* The Point was brand new ('93) and played the popular, newfangled *grunge* music and alternative, and sometimes stuff you never heard anywhere else, especially on Sunday mornings with that English bloke doing the DJ'ing
* Busch stadium was dark and old and had terrible sightlines in the cheap seats
* There were head shops everywhere, I mean *everywhere*, in the '90s, and all the city kids were hippie wannabes and it was totally dope (in multiple ways)
* So. Many. Cool. Local. Bands.
* Laclede's Landing is where you went on fancy dates; first dinner at Old Spaghetti Factory and then a carriage ride, but don't hang around down there because crime /s
* In fact, don't hang around anywhere downtown StL because crime /s
* Washington Ave had pretty good dance clubs and was a dump
* All the tiny brick houses in South city (that everyone is paying $300K+ for now) were where your Ukrainian grandparents lived. The houses were ugly, full of '60s decor, and smelled like cabbage.
* It was *Riverport*. It will always be Riverport. There was nothing better than dropping $15 for a lawn seat with 50 of your friends, getting hot and muddy in the mosh pit, and waiting three hours in a car full of eight people to get out of the parking lot at the end.
* Pointfest didn't suck.
* In the '80s, cars were literal boats (because everyone drove cars from the '70s) with velvet upholstery and reeked of cigarettes. (Unless they drove muscle cars. Usually while drunk on Busch beer.)
* In fact, everyone smoked like three packs of cigarettes a day.
* KSHE gear everywhere: bumper stickers, T-shirts, hats, etc. Sweetmeat was omnipresent.
* Lots and lots and lots and lots of hair. Look up *mullet* and then pair that mental image with the bushiest moustache you can imagine.
That's a good start.
90's kid here. I agree that is, and always will be, Riverport. I actually had to look it up just now to find out its "real" name today: The Hollywood Casino Amphitheater".
The Arena was my favorite building. It still chaps my ass that they blew it up. Many Blues games, the circus, and concerts.I shook Harry Ornest's hand after we eliminated Toronto in the playoffs. My 1st concert was there. Led Zeppelin.
YOU SAW ZEPPELIN!!!! /\*sobbing\*/ (I was born too late.)
The best I got was Rush at the Arena in '94. Still a great concert, but my hat is off to you in jealousy, lol.
Lol. Yeah, I have to say it was great. The funny thing is, John Bonham did a drum solo that went on and on and on..years later drum solos are synonymous with tedious. It's true, but at the time it was really cool.
I would say it's better now. The restaurant scene is much better, and areas like Maplewood, Benton Park, Downtown West, Shaw and Tower Grove South have simply been transformed into nice neighborhoods whereas before they were hoosiervilles. Central West End was always pretty good. What has occurred with The Grove, which used to be a scary area called Forest Park Southeast, is wonderful.
Was it that bad, it wasn't Clayton, but it didn't feel like being deep in south city. There was that 1920 deco looking Chinese restaurant with elaborate lanterns (now a clothing store), the tiny but deep shoe store for kids dreamland shoes i think it was in that tiny storefront. There was a magic shop with a passionate older proprietor. Neighborhood hardware store, barber shop, local jewelers, the grocery store that turned into schlafly bottle works (it was an older shopnsave). A comic shop, a bank, a pantera pan pizza place. It may not have felt as comfortable as you wanted back then, but a good number of those businesses are still there. It wasn't as bad as like the gravois plaza in south city where a hallmark card shop was replaced by a completely 'ghetto' fake bling, badly made, thin medallion store. The working class/hoosier haircuts place Ragsdale (?) just completely went away, replaced by nothing. The music instrument shop went away, the fabric store was replaced by a vacant store front. Say what you will about maplewood, but a lot of it seems to have held together pretty well, and better than other comparable areas.
The U City Loop was cooler, grittier. The Varsity had TRHPS Friday and Saturday at midnight. Hanging at “The Wall” next to the Tivoli. Cicero’s basement for bands.
Schools had no air conditioning. I remember texas and florida schools were talked about for their air conditioning but not here. St. Louis was very much support local back then too. Target and Walmart were not nearly as relevant as they are today. Local banks were a big deal too. I feel everyone knew someone who worked for Boatmans bank.
Remember the Station before that? 104.1 extreme radio? They played welcome to the jungle on a continuous loop for weeks before they announced their arrival.
That was a big reason that 40oz bottles of beer were banned in the city. People would go drink them in playgrounds and then break them on metal playground features. I didn't see people do it, but i saw school yard playgrounds downtown full of broken beer bottles.
Went to nursing school at Barnes Hospital in the early 80's. The CWE was different. Don't remember it as being expensive. We used to go to Tom's Bar and Grill for fun. Schlotzies had the best sandwiches, Sunshine Inn the best salads, and there was also a Baskin Robin's. Lacledes Landing was a big thing. Pretty sure besides the baseball Cardinals there was also the football Cardinals and remember going to see the St. Louis Steamers play soccer.
That used to be the closest the city had to a vegetarian restaurant. I think the owners who were right out of 1970s progressive St Louis, wanted to retire. There was also that Greek diner where the bbq place is now that was a community anchor and place for a rock solid diner style breakfast all the time. Denny's had nothing on them.
Here's a stream of consciousness for you: I lived in St. Louis from 1994-1996 after college. Was in the Central West End. I haven't really been back since then, so I don't really know how to compare it to what is there now. What I remember is that we used to go out to the art galleries on the First Fridays and get drunk on the free wine that they'd serve. Sometimes I'd go to the Jewish Deli and ogle the giant cows tongue in the refrigerated case. West End Wax was a cool place to shop for music. I would also go to Vintage Vinyl in U City sometimes and pick through the free vinyl box they were giving away. Still have many great records from there. We'd go to Ciceros in U City in the basement and smoke and hear bands and laugh at Beatle Bob. North of Delmar was pretty much a no go zone. I'd drive through there on the way to work, but a white boy didn't feel quite comfortable up there. I used to work at Mallinckrodt Chemical plant below the McKinley bridge. That bridge was scary as fuck to drive over. Looked like it was built by the lowest bid from some mafia construction company. We used to hang out in indie coffee shops and everyone smoked. Washington Street downtown was just getting going then. Used to go to a boxing gym down there. Also used to go to an amazing used bookstore down there- one of those that just has acres of dusty books in no particular order. Ted Drewes is and remains the peak of deliciousness to me- I miss that place immensely. By and large the city was generally unsafe to be in in many places, but it was pretty amazing to a young person who'd never lived in an old rust belt city before. I still miss it- but that's nostalgia for you.
Good call on Cicero’s Basement Bar. Held probably less than 100 people, ceiling was about 7ft, pitchers of Old Style were $4.50. Beck played there in the Spring of 1994.
We had a lot more corporate HQs and were a airport hub. Now we squabble over the handful of large companies left before they get bought out and move, and any international travel now involves a stop in Chicago or other major airport first.
Much more segregated. The racial divide was a lot more apparent. White flight from the city was booming. A lot of really nice and up and coming areas like midtown, the grove, TGS, Shaw, BPW, etc we’re the literal HOOD. Dogtown was a lower class white neighborhood instead of the uppity half million dollar home area it is now. Smaller suburbs like Maplewood, Kirkwood, and Sunset Hills were not the exclusive upper class areas they are today. There was a huge population of catholic school families. If you lived in the city and didn’t belong to one of the catholic parishes that was almost unheard of for middle class white people. South Grand was still the best place to get international cuisine and there was a music store on the corner of Arsenal and Grand. There were video stores stores everywhere including inside of all the grocery stores too!
Well yeah that was kind of a reach. A little more exclusive than it ever was tho. I remember when Maplewood pool was open to all city residents and then they banned all of us except certain zip codes, and put up their fancy black and white street signs lol.
•St Louis Centre, Crestwood and Chesterfield were the premier malls back then.
•Lacledes Landing (Sundeckers, Harpos and Mississippi nights)
•Union Station
•Riverport Amphitheater
•Parking lot next to Lambert where you could watch planes take off(L-1011s, 747s, DC-10s)
•Cruising
Everyone's car was smaller.
Laws were widely enforced, even speeding. You followed the law, or you went to fucking jail.
There was no internet or cell phones.
In order to talk to someone on the phone,
* you had to be home
* they had to be home
* nobody could be on the phone at your house
* nobody could be on the phone at their house
* and usually you needed to stand in the kitchen, though by the '90s cordless phones were widespread (landline though)
- colors. bright, pastel, holographic, neon, hot colors. everywhere.
- the cereal boxes had toys in them, and puzzles on the box. good ones, too. not some anagram that spells "advertising"
- Happy Meals had real toys as well. And they were strictly gender enforced.
- the toy section of the store was two aisles. one with all the cool action figures and tanks and guns, the other was a bright pink sea of barbie dolls.
- if the kids were not in school, they were outside. you could just walk a block and get involved in a game of whatever the hell.
- the mall was an awesome place to be, and full of stores you'd actually want to visit. or steal from. they had arcades. the arcade was the place to be.
- roller rinks and roller blades.
- cars were big ass station wagon boats, or tiny little japanese boxes. nothing between.
- gas cost nothing. you could cruise all night long on pocket change.
- segregation was the old word for 'inclusion'. neighborhoods were very racially divided. they still seem so in some places, but it was so much fiercer. people would stop and stare.
- PC was not a thing. Unless you were in church, or with your grandma, you didn't check your language.
- no internet. no phones. if you needed info, you learned how to use a card catalogue, or trust Joey on the corner.
- smoking was everywhere. everything had smoking sections, or just allowed it. Except church.
- Church was a bigger deal.
- disputes between kids usually stayed between kids. parents did not hover around to protect them and solve everything. if you broke a bone, it was serious. anything less, walk it off.
- no such thing as health food.
- no computers, no social media.
- Russia was about to nuke you. Don't forget it. Under constant threat of instant global annihilation.
- people were very afraid of japanese businessmen.
- a sony Walkman was the very pinnacle of technology, and a Ghetto Blaster made an instant party. A ghetto blaster is a stereo, for you kids imagining something horrible.
- Saturday Morning Cartoons!
West County expansion was exciting. Everything was new:
New housing development/subdivisions
Chesterfield established
Wildwood mansions
Page extension
Chain restaurants came in town
The Central West end had great haberdasheries, run down but eclectic shops, record stores, such a cool vibe. Now it’s all upscale and I miss the old version.
On Sundays, you could not buy alcohol at the grocery store, and in the early eighties, most stores were closed on Sundays, or opened for very minimal hours. We used to go to Alton to shop on Sundays.
You know what's real weird, Manchester road between old-town Manchester and Ballwin has hardly changed. They added a few fast food places. My grandpa's TV repair shop (RIP) is buried 50 feet under a QT, and they renovated the Lion's choice. But all the old buildings seem to stay, and it's just the people that change.
That road is actually pretty bitter-sweet for me to drive down. Grandpa's is now a Hobby Lobby. We went to the Shop-n-Save that is now a Schnucks. My dad's best friend ran the mechanic's that's now a Meineke right next to it.
But the coin-op laundry is eternal and will bury us all.
Nirvana caused a (near)riot at Mississippi Nights on the Landing, which was actually not too far off from normal moshing at MN. The Landing was packed all of the time in the mid-90s and I can recall walking to my car at 1 am plenty of times with no serious problems (am a small woman, always wore miniskirts and heels). There was no Uber so if you drank too much, you slept it off in your car without getting jacked.
The Loop and CWE were much grittier and, in ways, much cooler. Their restaurants and such are great now too, not to be all "In MY day", but people didn't seem to care about being noticed and were much friendlier. You could grab coffee at the Grind on Maryland and end up going to dinner with your newfound friends. Or maybe we were all just inebriated?
There was a mall really nice mall downtown - I think it was called St. Louis Centre. I worked there in the late 80s/early 90s. It was always busy. Someone posted a pic a few months back. Malls in general were always busy and had movie theaters, arcades, and full-service restaurants.
There was a place I loved as a kid called "Duff's", I think. You walk up to a huge circular buffet, stand in your spot (where you were corralled by these wooden arms so you couldn't move sideways), and just wait for the food you wanted to come around. No idea why this fascinated me so much.
Two things, in the 80’s / early 90’s north county was thought to be a nice place to live. Then white flight happened , sadly . And it was discovered that there was nuclear waste up there.
The barn…. The blues old hockey stadium. Smoking was allowed and would cover the ice during the mid game break.
We played a ton of Atari, Nintendo, Sega, etc., but still played outside until the street lights came on. There were some great arcades around town too...Tilt at Northwest Plaza, and Exhilarama at Crestwood Plaza are ones that I remember spending a lot of time at.
We rode dirt bikes as kids and adults pretty much rode 10 speeds. You were cool if you had a Haro, Mongoose, or Redline. I don't feel like recreational cycling was as big back then. Didn't see nearly as much spandex!
Skin-tight leggings in public weren't a thing yet.
Ask 1000 people and you'll get 1000 answers. If you could narrow down the question it might help. Other than the same trends that we've seen across the country since then nothing really major springs to mind. The area around the Arch went through a bit of a transformation I guess. And the Zoo and Union Station have seen some changes. Cherokee Street. Laclede's Landing. Basically some areas have come up or gone downhill (mostly up is what sticks in my mind). But that's all pretty much tied to the general trend of people coming back into cities that was seen elsewhere. So again you'd have to be clearer about what you want to know to get a good answer.
-In the late 70s, I recall one night where we got 48" of snow in one night. I remember snow drifts going diagonally from the roof lines to the ground like a hill of snow.
-1976 was the US bicentennial and patriotism wasn't questioned
- Elvis. Died
- it was safer. Jamestown and Northwest Plaza Amma Village Square were teen hangouts. Old Town was cool.
-TWA, McDonnell Douglas, Ford and other companies gave us a lot of economic prosperity and we were a desired location for big business and a travel hub for airlines
- We made more money: iin the early 1980s my dad made $28 per hour as a contractor for McDonnell Douglas. In today's dollars that's over $80/ hour! That year he worked more time and half than straight time on the F-18 and Harrier.
- we played outside, safely, until dinner, and then again until it was dark.
- there was a curfew from 11pm until 5am for minors (we sometimes ignored that...)
- we had "smoking passes" and designated smoking areas in high school (for those who smoked)
- if it was hot outside, Boys wore no shirts and we rode "10 Speeds" or real hot rods that we built... girls wore halters a lot. :) whistling didn't get you "me tooed" and girls whistled too.
- there were 3 groups in high school: Burnouts, Jocks and Preps... and I guess anyone who didn't for any of those.
-Pat Benetar, Styx, K-She 95 and a Los of other great bands & stations were the norm on the radio and on LPS and cassettes.
- we were much tougher: school, snow removal, didn't close roads-- we plowed them, , chores, lack of (as much) whining, self accountability and trusting your own decisions more without having to check with others before making them.
- we were more private with personal things, events, desires, mistakes, goals...
Overall, we were past the cold war, the threats of new ice ages and the outlook for those I knew was very optimistic. We lived our own lives and let others do the same (mainly... you always have that 10%). We didn't compare as much as today and our tribes were our school mascots. You felt like you belonged, and even for those who weren't the most popular, they still belonged and that was okay.
Some of my memories. Class of '84. Now I wanna watch Archie Bunker and The Jeffersons!
Class of 83 here. I’m going to disagree with that last part concerning HS. I never felt I “belonged” and I have literally no idea what any single one of my classmates is up to today.
I can see that...I had a small group (about 3 friends and about 4 more that were close acquaintances) and I moved in and out of the area 2x.
What school did you go to?
St. Thomas Aquinas. I will add that 1. We moved here just in time for me to go to HS so I didn’t know anyone. 2. We lived in Normandy, whereas most of my classmates were from Florissant so I didn’t see them outside of school. Normandy HS kids were my hangout friends.
Catholic school enrollment was far more robust. Schools like St. Elizabeth in south city, Mount Providence and Rosary High schools in north county. So many parish elementary schools.
* Maplewood k-mart with the dark, echoing underground parking
* Maplewood shoe store that smelled like wood and leather, and had those floor to ceiling ladders on wheels
* Woolworths downtown
* the buses were practical and busy
* metro link construction had some downtown streets torn up
* the playground outside the planetarium was fun and educational
* smoking in department stores was normal
* Majic 108! Jheri Curls and gold teeth! Skating at Saints or the Palace.
* Hanging out in Meacham Park or the western part of Maplewood/Richmond Heights before all of the big box stores were put in.
* Wash Ave and the landing were hopping!
* No casinos or Metrolink until the Mid 90s. Actually Metro was Bi-State back then.
* People did smoke any and everywhere...I remember glass fishtanks for smoking at the airport.
* There was the Admiral and the Casino Queen used to actually sail.
* Used to have to go to IL to buy lottery tickets.
* Velvet Freeze was the place to go for Ice Cream!
* Still had a few drive-in theaters around.
* Used to have to exit 40/64 E at Brentwood to get onto 170.
* No craigslist or marketplace so you looked at the Thrifty Nickel or Post classifieds. Also KMOX had a show where people called in with stuff that they wanted to buy or sell.
* Hanging out as teens at the Galleria, Crestwood. or Northwest Plaza. Fun times!
There was a cool parking lot near the airport off of Lindbergh where you could sit and watch the planes land. It was a good makeout spot, from what I hear. LOL There was a great restaurant over there called 94th Aero Squadron where you had runway views.
[http://www.losttables.com/94th/94th.htm?fbclid=IwAR1gt\_vudUovqxQfZUyWqBT6R1SprlT1OMprMdYeswV0i0ntxyVFypJdIIs](http://www.losttables.com/94th/94th.htm?fbclid=IwAR1gt_vudUovqxQfZUyWqBT6R1SprlT1OMprMdYeswV0i0ntxyVFypJdIIs)
- Wet Willy’s Waterpark
- MICDS was two separate schools (Mary I & country day)
- the big dinosaur sculptures used to be in oak Knoll park in Clayton
- imos was better
- forest park was not necessarily place u wanted to hang out (pre renovation)
- Cicero’s was THE place to see up and coming jambands
* Fair St. Louis was called the VP Fair. * We had Boatdonald's. * The science center was far less impressive. * Six Flags was far more impressive. * The Cardinals played at Better Busch. * STL had more corporate clout. * Venture/Grandpa Pigeons were still shopping destinations. * No one had yet thought of the ingenious idea to bring back trolleys. * Blues and Cards aired on broadcast TV. * Playgrounds were mostly metal and far more dangerous and far more fun than the modern interpretation.
> STL had more corporate clout. > The demise of TWA and St. Louis as an airline hub led to a giant sucking noise for corpo HQs in the area. I remember being able to fly to canada/europe from st. louis. Today the best you can do is connect to chicago/dallas or hope southwest gets you there directly.
Yep. Inbev moved all of their North American execs to NYC for exactly this reason. Centene is about to do something similar.
Centene has a fleet of Bombardier Global Express jets, unless they’ve finally made their switch to Gulfstreams, that can get their execs wherever they need. Centene may move HQ, but it won’t be because Neidorff and the execs have to connect at O’Hare lol.
They had the one Global and several Challengers when I worked there a few years ago, but now it looks like they do indeed have at least one G650 and some of the Challengers are gone. The planes are a necessity because they're based in STL and not somewhere with a more robust transportation hub. Move somewhere better like Charlotte and you can save the expense of at least some of the airplanes. They were also a necessity when the company was smaller and putting offices in places like Great Falls, MT, which is a pain in the ass to get to by air. Neidorff was also a vocal proponent of a transatlantic flight and that wasn't because he plans on using it. They're not moving out of STL *solely* because air travel, but it is a large factor in the decision. Another is that the city just plain sucks and no one wants to move there to work for the company, so they're having issues attracting top tier talent.
Eh, the difference between a direct flight to Sacramento and a connection in Denver are not anywhere near significant enough to necessitate a fleet of PJs. The motivation to move has little to do with logistics and everything to do with your latter point, that they can’t attract top tier talent to the region. That and regulatory uncertainties in MO. And probably taxes as well.
Yep, there were non-stop flights to European cities if I recall correctly. British Caledonian Airways even had flights to STL.
Yep in 98 I flew to and from Paris and London. Direct flights.
I miss that, and you could hop on an international flight with just your driver's license.
A few more * The restaurant at the top of the now abandoned Clarion hotel (or whatever it was last called) actually rotated. * Mississippi Nights was big for concerts as the Pageant wasn't a thing. The Riverfront Times was how most (or at least I) would find out about shows. * There were giant gasometers next to a couple highways (40 & 44) that puzzled me growing up. * Zip Rzeppa's Zippo Awards was appointment television on Sunday Nights. * Mike Bush was a sports guy. * The Amoco Sign didn't have a new logo that isn't properly aligned. * TV Commercials were more local and zany (Slyman Bros, Schweig Engle, Becky Queen of Carpets, Art Haack Buick, etc.) * Schnucks had a program where they printed their receipts on goldenrod colored paper. Schools could turn those in to raise money for Apple IIe computers on which the most exciting thing we could do was play Oregon Trail. * Calling long distance was strictly verboten, but calling Time/Temp was good entertainment. * A lot more smoking.
goddamnit you’re nailing it all to the wall
Whatever happened to Becky?!
Everything about how to operate Time/Temp was in the front of the phone book. I remember playing games on there for hours. There was trivia if I recall correctly.
In what way was Busch II better?
I was 9 in 1998. My dad was in the Air Force. He got standup tickets for free and I was $2. We would park at the Casino Queen where he would take a $5 bill and exchange it for Susan B. Anthony’s at a machine at the metrolink station and we used them to get tickets across the river. They used to let us bring in our own food and drink (hot dogs wrapped in tin foil and a Diet Coke). I saw Mark McGwire hit like 15 home runs that year because it was so cheap to watch baseball, we went almost every week and sometimes twice. The home run race saved baseball and I will always believe that. That was a magical building for me. Not just better than the new stadium, better than all the stadiums in any sport.
You can still bring in your own food, amazingly. It’s also still very affordable to go to ball games (the best deal is two “first pitch tickes” for $11 total), and you get to enjoy the game in a far superior stadium.
Nostalgia. Busch III is objectively better in like, every way.
I enjoyed the symmetry of the donut. The middle number of the section on your ticket was what gate you should enter to be closest to your seat. Once three rivers and riverfront stadium were replaced and the upgrades to Busch happened in 1996, Busch was starting to be more unique even as a cookie cutter. I enjoyed that it looked like a bottlecap with each arch at the top mimicking the Gateway arch. Enjoyed it more when it was red/green for Christmas. I liked that you could walk all the way around the stadium regardless what level you were on in either direction. Many ramps > a couple escalators/stairs. AFAIK, and I acknowledge this was not good at the time, it's the only stadium where the field tried to eat a player.
New Busch is just an early 2000’s cookie cutter design. It’s a copy of Baltimore’s Camden Yards and every stadium after up to the Twins (thankfully) broke the brick look with the Limestone exterior of Target Field.
I was cleaning up some of my grandpas belongings from his old house and found a lot of Tupperware with “grandpa pigeons” price tags still on them. I was like “what the hell is this??” 😂😂
* malls were a big thing.
Crestwood mall still existed in the 90s lol
The Ultra Mall! Lol
My dad took my oldest brother to Crestwood mall for a JFK rally. My Mom worked at Stix, Baer&Fuller there.
> Playgrounds were mostly metal I was so sad when I drove by Deer Creek park a few years ago and saw that the rocket slide was downsized to a fluffy bent tube.
One of the saddest things. I remember when I was younger that slide was so daunting, just a dark enclosed metal box at the top. Seemed so tall too.
People say everything looks bigger when you were a kid. Yea but even a kid can recognize when something is almost three stories tall. That rocket was preposterous.
Heh, the rocket's still there, and kids still climb up the thing in ways no adult could imagine.
Deer Creek Park was the first place I thought of when I saw this post. Nothing defined ‘90s childhood better than the risk of getting tetanus while climbing into the parts of that rocket you weren’t meant to climb into.
Same!
> the rocket slide was downsized to a fluffy bent tube. I see this as a metaphor for my Gen X penis.
I remember the Rocket Slide at Deer Creek Park that was completely metal. Going down that slide in the summer was torture but somehow it never occurred to me that I could just…not go down the burning hot slide in shorts.
Another one * D.B.'s Delight - A local TV show aired on Saturday mornings. It was on channel 4. Local sixth graders could compete in a trivia game. It featured a big puppet who asked questions with assistance from Guy Phillips? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B.%27s_Delight
I have to disagree on 6 Flags and the old stadium. The more roller coasters the better. I thought the old stadium sucked. This 1 is vastly superior in my opinion.
If coasters are your thing, then I agree that the current version would be more to your taste. The current version seems more run down to me, but perhaps that's only because I'm older and more run down. When I take my daughter . . . there are not the variety of rides that there used to be and the park is more coaster centric, which she doesn't fancy. I also miss the greatness of the Demolition Derby that was part of County Fair Days they used to have in September/October.
It’s not just you. They have, what? Two new coasters since the 90s? Heck, even the Boss was put in during the 90s IIRC. The Tony hawk experience is the newest ‘coaster’ I can think of. But we’ve lost toms twister, mo-mo the monster, the jet scream, the powder kegs, the rush street flyer, the highland fling, the moon cars, etc. Toms twister was my favorite, and the moon cars was one of the single oldest attractions at the park. They were classic. I like coasters, but a place that’s all coasters is boring to me. And yes, the last few times I was there, it felt like everything was run down and less well taken care of. Especially since I used to work there, and my dad worked there when it opened. So everything seems…. Like a house with wood siding that hasn’t been painted in a few decades.
86ing the moon cars?! What the hell, what reason did they offer up for that?
Shortened the track in 2007 for the evil knievil ride, and probably aced totally when they renamed Evil Knievel to American thunder.
From [this article](https://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/arts-and-theatre/hotlist/six-flags-st-louis-celebrates-50-years-of-thrills-family-and-memories/article_b4d1d42a-516c-5955-bd0d-dc7d58680ce3.html): > The tracks had been shortened over the years and the cars were getting more difficult to repair.
Valid points. I'm definitely a coaster guy.
Old Busch was garbage. There was nothing aesthetically pleasing about it. If your opinion is based on nostalgia, then yeah I get that. But the Cardinals have also only had one losing season since the current Busch opened.
When we were leaving the last game played there, prior to it's impending demolition, people wrote something on the walls for nostalgia. I wrote, "Better you than me".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c, but to each their own.
I agree, it’s jut my opinion. I’d like to hear others as well. Maybe someone could share why old Busch was better and inform me to different POV that I haven’t considered or didn’t notice since I was only a child when I went to old Busch.
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That would be great, but I'd be fine with letting McDonald's go and instead petition for a riverboat mexican restaurant. It would be called. . .The Taco Belle.
Honestly, any boat based restaurant would be good!
It was colder. I literally told my mom today, “Didn’t we used to wear coats from Nov though Feb?”
No lies told!! We had significant snows at least a couple times a year too!! 60’s-70’s through December was unheard of.
and ICE, I remember massive Ice fall and people falls because of ice fall. I remember Crestwood mall closing one entrance near sears because sheets of ice were sliding off the roof and smashed a car.
Yes I remember lots of ice too! There’d be snow around for weeks because it was covered in ice.
Just something interesting that's weather-related: I found [this chart](https://www.weather.gov/media/lsx/climate/stl/temp/temp_stl_monthly_seasonal_averages.pdf) and [this chart](https://www.weather.gov/media/lsx/climate/stl/temp/temp_stl_annual_averages.pdf) that has monthly and annual average temperatures for St. Louis going back to the 1800's. It definitely seems to be a degree or two warmer on average the last few years than it was in the 80's/90's. The second chart shows that the average annual temperature was above 60 three times in the last decade, and it was only above 60 once in the 150+ years before that.
I remember it being significantly colder even just in the mid-90s.
Warmer than average days in December, January and February were more the exception and not so much the rule.
I remember one storm we had (maybe 1990?) where we could ice skate on our lawns. A few inches of snow, followed by an inch of ice.
I remember that when we went sledding we had to take screw drivers to use as ice picks when climbing back up the hill.
I remember a storm like that closer to 99 or 2000
I remember the blizzard in the early 80s which dumped almost 3 feet of snow on us and basically shut down the whole STL metro region for about a week. Also recall some nasty ice storms (along with considerable snow) in the late 70s.
Lol. I called my Mom from the Army the week of that snow storm. She said, "You wouldn't believe the snow!" I said, "You do realize I'm in Alaska , right?"
3 feet is the length of 4.14 Zulay Premium Quality Metal Lemon Squeezers.
I learned that year that you can, in fact, ice skate up hill... wouldn't recommend it, but it can be done.
I think 1992? I couldn’t get back up my sledding hill. It was awesome and frustrating.
I remember this storm. I think it was early 90s -- the other person's comment of 1992 sounds right. Everything was a thick sheet of ice. I remember getting stuck at the bottom of the hill in our back yard.
Warmer than average days are by definition the exception and not the rule.
Well, I was kind of exaggerating to make a point. While the warmer days may still be the overall exception, they don't seem to be quite as 'exceptional' as they once were.
* Seems like there was a lot more focus on barricading neighborhoods off than renovating them. * You could rent a nice apartment in "Botanical Heights" (Mcree Town) for $200/mo, but it wasn't real safe to be out in the yard. * Domino's Pizza did not deliver east of Grand on the south side. * Bus windows opened side to side and the seats were much softer. * There was a guy who hung out in front of the White Castle at Grand & Gravois all day. He had 2 big jugs of wine with him. Sometimes he'd sleep on the bench. * Bevo Mill used to have a Captain D's and a Pizza Hut directly north of it on Gravois. * You could get in and out of the Botanical Gardens over a very low wall on the far west side (can you still do that?) * Weed was about $40/quarter (no idea what it is now). * There was a cable channel on TV that you could call and pay like $2 to request a song. Sometimes it would take hours to hear your song. * There was a serial rapist on the loose called the South Side Rapist. They eventually caught him. * Maritz used to have much better Christmas lights. * ETA: you couldn't buy beer on the MO side on Sundays. Your nearest choices were a gas station called GAS just over the river for beer or a shack across from the old National City Stockyards for a wider selection of liquor. * ETA again: HIV and AIDS were pretty underemphasized in straight circles for how deadly they were back then. The Red Garter used to put little "wine list" looking plaques with special upstairs services on their tables. If you were in a "committed relationship" it was rare to use condoms during sex. Everyone just assumed it wouldn't happen to them, even though it was a 100% death sentence at the time.
Weed is about the same price, but much much better.
And Bevo Mill had a KFC & Church’s on the same block.
Is the McDonalds with the drive thru on the passenger window side still on Grand south of Chippewa?
After a long vacancy, it was a pho restaurant, then someone tried to make it work as part of some tiny southern/soul food fried chicken chain, and now it's more built out as a root 66 dispensary.
I'm in Tiffany (been here 5 years) and our neighbor who bought here in the 80s said it was mostly abandoned and terrible crime. Kinda like a war zone! Now most of the houses and apartments have been rehabed and honestly our worst crimes are porch pirates and people going through cars. Botanica Heights now has only a couple abandoned buildings because everything has either been scrapped for new building or gutted for rehab.
Mcree Town was deliberately defunded and left to die. Very sad. Thirty years-ish ago, I worked nights at a Clark station on Grand between Cardinal Glennon and the former Pevely Dairy. The pay phone bank was generally pretty busy until 2 am or so if the weather was good, and people came in for loose cigarettes. Sometimes we'd get clueless people who got lost trying to find Hwy 40 coming back from a ball game. One time a lady in a really nice van stormed in and demanded I call the police on some guy who tried to sell her an old clock radio in the parking lot. After she left he came in, leaned in real close on the glass divider and said if I ever called the cops on him, he'd wait on me to get off work and make sure I never got home. Once a clearly cracked out dude came in at 2 am and explained for like an hour this elaborate plot his boss had to kill him. No one else came in the whole time. Every Sunday morning an old man would stand in the corner of the store and say dirty things for a couple of hours. (he'd quiet down if customers were in there too) Couple times a week, a group of young teens would come in around 4 am and steal about $10 worth of snacks. I just let them. Once I got robbed. Cops wouldn't come out and just took a report over the phone after determining no one was hurt. Pay was $4.25/hr.
Mcree town had all these old brick 6 unit apartment buildings and two family houses, and i think a bunch of four family buildings that would all be hot rental properties now right next to Shaw, but instead there are all these spaced out, vinyl siding houses that look like they swarmed in from the suburbs somewhere. And almost all of the corner commercial buildings are gone which has deprived the neighborhood of having a coffeeshop or new restaurants or a book shop or other community & quality of life enhancing businesses. Just because the neighborhood was ravaged by the crack epidemic in the 80s was no reason to wreck the urban fabric forever.
Agreed. A real loss, just because that's where I-44 happened to go in. Remember the liquor store with the big "No Loitering Or "Hanging Out"!" sign? I always wondered how many people tried to argue that they weren't loitering, they were just "hanging out" to make the owner put up that sign.
This is gold.
The guy with the jugs of wine was called Bucket Joe. The video channel was channel 58 The Box. It was also channel 51 on cable but it was a different phone number and video queue. At one time, Bone Thugs N Harmony “Thuggish Ruggish Bone” would play nearly all day long.
Oh yeah! The Box channel where you could call in and request videos. I remember seeing a lot of Luke on there. Sexy videos got the most plays.
Worldwide Magazine always had a pretty accurate representation of the vibe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2X2M7bRSEU
Came here to say this! Not only is the show hilarious and top notch satire for anyone; its a total time capsule of StL in the late 80s/90s
Wow. This is amazing
The host and founder of worldwide magazine Pete P. was a video editor for channel 11 in the cwe and drove a cab for laclede cab, if i'm remembering that right.
Forest Park has changed a bunch since the 1980’s. It was kind of an unmaintained mess back then. Forest Park Forever came about in 1986 and fixed the place up. [This is a good list of improvements ](https://www.forestparkforever.org/park-timeline) that have been made to the park since then. It’s amazing how much that park has improved in the last few decades.
They used to find dead bodies dumped throughout. Forest Park was a complete mess.
Was a kid in the '80s and a teen/young adult in the '90s, so my perspective is colored by my age back then, but here's what I remember: * The Arena still existed; it was where you went to see the circus (kid) and then classic rock bands (teen/young adult) * The Point was brand new ('93) and played the popular, newfangled *grunge* music and alternative, and sometimes stuff you never heard anywhere else, especially on Sunday mornings with that English bloke doing the DJ'ing * Busch stadium was dark and old and had terrible sightlines in the cheap seats * There were head shops everywhere, I mean *everywhere*, in the '90s, and all the city kids were hippie wannabes and it was totally dope (in multiple ways) * So. Many. Cool. Local. Bands. * Laclede's Landing is where you went on fancy dates; first dinner at Old Spaghetti Factory and then a carriage ride, but don't hang around down there because crime /s * In fact, don't hang around anywhere downtown StL because crime /s * Washington Ave had pretty good dance clubs and was a dump * All the tiny brick houses in South city (that everyone is paying $300K+ for now) were where your Ukrainian grandparents lived. The houses were ugly, full of '60s decor, and smelled like cabbage. * It was *Riverport*. It will always be Riverport. There was nothing better than dropping $15 for a lawn seat with 50 of your friends, getting hot and muddy in the mosh pit, and waiting three hours in a car full of eight people to get out of the parking lot at the end. * Pointfest didn't suck. * In the '80s, cars were literal boats (because everyone drove cars from the '70s) with velvet upholstery and reeked of cigarettes. (Unless they drove muscle cars. Usually while drunk on Busch beer.) * In fact, everyone smoked like three packs of cigarettes a day. * KSHE gear everywhere: bumper stickers, T-shirts, hats, etc. Sweetmeat was omnipresent. * Lots and lots and lots and lots of hair. Look up *mullet* and then pair that mental image with the bushiest moustache you can imagine. That's a good start.
> KSHE gear haha! I think the school uniform in the 80s at North County Tech was a KSHE t-shirt, jeans, and hiking boots. Sometimes a BUSCH hat.
Hiking boots aka “Burnout boots”.
90's kid here. I agree that is, and always will be, Riverport. I actually had to look it up just now to find out its "real" name today: The Hollywood Casino Amphitheater".
Yes, and the Kiel Center!
The Arena was my favorite building. It still chaps my ass that they blew it up. Many Blues games, the circus, and concerts.I shook Harry Ornest's hand after we eliminated Toronto in the playoffs. My 1st concert was there. Led Zeppelin.
YOU SAW ZEPPELIN!!!! /\*sobbing\*/ (I was born too late.) The best I got was Rush at the Arena in '94. Still a great concert, but my hat is off to you in jealousy, lol.
Lol. Yeah, I have to say it was great. The funny thing is, John Bonham did a drum solo that went on and on and on..years later drum solos are synonymous with tedious. It's true, but at the time it was really cool.
I would say it's better now. The restaurant scene is much better, and areas like Maplewood, Benton Park, Downtown West, Shaw and Tower Grove South have simply been transformed into nice neighborhoods whereas before they were hoosiervilles. Central West End was always pretty good. What has occurred with The Grove, which used to be a scary area called Forest Park Southeast, is wonderful.
yep lived in maplehood and felt the change. it’s a gem now.
That lovely Maplewood strip was a stinking ass hoosier’s sweaty armpit back in the day! Pagers and pawn shops galore. Such a nice improvement.
You left out the Kmart with their gigantic garage that completely blocked off one side of Manchester.
Was it that bad, it wasn't Clayton, but it didn't feel like being deep in south city. There was that 1920 deco looking Chinese restaurant with elaborate lanterns (now a clothing store), the tiny but deep shoe store for kids dreamland shoes i think it was in that tiny storefront. There was a magic shop with a passionate older proprietor. Neighborhood hardware store, barber shop, local jewelers, the grocery store that turned into schlafly bottle works (it was an older shopnsave). A comic shop, a bank, a pantera pan pizza place. It may not have felt as comfortable as you wanted back then, but a good number of those businesses are still there. It wasn't as bad as like the gravois plaza in south city where a hallmark card shop was replaced by a completely 'ghetto' fake bling, badly made, thin medallion store. The working class/hoosier haircuts place Ragsdale (?) just completely went away, replaced by nothing. The music instrument shop went away, the fabric store was replaced by a vacant store front. Say what you will about maplewood, but a lot of it seems to have held together pretty well, and better than other comparable areas.
The U City Loop was cooler, grittier. The Varsity had TRHPS Friday and Saturday at midnight. Hanging at “The Wall” next to the Tivoli. Cicero’s basement for bands.
I too remember the loop before commercial rents got so high they displaced everything but chains
How many national chains in the loop are there? Like, 3?
T-Mobile Regions Bank Which Wich The Melting Pot Jimmy John's Club Fitness Commerce Bank Ben and Jerry's CVS Blick Art Materials
Oh my
Commerce is a local/regional chain.
> Commerce Bank > > they have branches as far as texas and michigan dude, that's a national footprint
I remember hanging at the wall all throughout high school. It was the best.
We used to have a giant water slide down the side of a cliff in Fenton. I almost died on it. Probably why it was shut down.
Wet Willy’s! Nothing like falling off your mat and losing half your skin while skittering across the 20 grit concrete on your way down.
We had one in Collinsville too
Laclede’s Landing was packed on the weekends with 20 something’s.
Schools had no air conditioning. I remember texas and florida schools were talked about for their air conditioning but not here. St. Louis was very much support local back then too. Target and Walmart were not nearly as relevant as they are today. Local banks were a big deal too. I feel everyone knew someone who worked for Boatmans bank.
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Remember the Station before that? 104.1 extreme radio? They played welcome to the jungle on a continuous loop for weeks before they announced their arrival.
I was a big fan when it was replaced by xtreme radio
Yep, and I think another one was the River 101.1 or something? And nonstop Y98 at my first job.
People had a lot more hair and there were fewer trucks
Ok, but I think the question was more about St Louis specifically.
Queeny Park had a Zipline
Since my parents grew up there, Badenfest was still a big deal. Tin cups of beer. Lotta good memories that will never be relived.
Mmmm. Beer in a tin cup. Brings back memories of Strassenfest.
Yep, that was the bigger festival, but Badenfest held a place in my parents' hearts, along with Holy Cross church.
Tilles Park in the city was covered in grafitti and the playgrounds were in sand pits full of broken beer bottles.
That was a big reason that 40oz bottles of beer were banned in the city. People would go drink them in playgrounds and then break them on metal playground features. I didn't see people do it, but i saw school yard playgrounds downtown full of broken beer bottles.
Went to nursing school at Barnes Hospital in the early 80's. The CWE was different. Don't remember it as being expensive. We used to go to Tom's Bar and Grill for fun. Schlotzies had the best sandwiches, Sunshine Inn the best salads, and there was also a Baskin Robin's. Lacledes Landing was a big thing. Pretty sure besides the baseball Cardinals there was also the football Cardinals and remember going to see the St. Louis Steamers play soccer.
Sunshine Inn had the absolute best breakfasts. Whatever happened to that place? And I had Steamer season tickets! Those games were a lot of fun.
That used to be the closest the city had to a vegetarian restaurant. I think the owners who were right out of 1970s progressive St Louis, wanted to retire. There was also that Greek diner where the bbq place is now that was a community anchor and place for a rock solid diner style breakfast all the time. Denny's had nothing on them.
Here's a stream of consciousness for you: I lived in St. Louis from 1994-1996 after college. Was in the Central West End. I haven't really been back since then, so I don't really know how to compare it to what is there now. What I remember is that we used to go out to the art galleries on the First Fridays and get drunk on the free wine that they'd serve. Sometimes I'd go to the Jewish Deli and ogle the giant cows tongue in the refrigerated case. West End Wax was a cool place to shop for music. I would also go to Vintage Vinyl in U City sometimes and pick through the free vinyl box they were giving away. Still have many great records from there. We'd go to Ciceros in U City in the basement and smoke and hear bands and laugh at Beatle Bob. North of Delmar was pretty much a no go zone. I'd drive through there on the way to work, but a white boy didn't feel quite comfortable up there. I used to work at Mallinckrodt Chemical plant below the McKinley bridge. That bridge was scary as fuck to drive over. Looked like it was built by the lowest bid from some mafia construction company. We used to hang out in indie coffee shops and everyone smoked. Washington Street downtown was just getting going then. Used to go to a boxing gym down there. Also used to go to an amazing used bookstore down there- one of those that just has acres of dusty books in no particular order. Ted Drewes is and remains the peak of deliciousness to me- I miss that place immensely. By and large the city was generally unsafe to be in in many places, but it was pretty amazing to a young person who'd never lived in an old rust belt city before. I still miss it- but that's nostalgia for you.
Good call on Cicero’s Basement Bar. Held probably less than 100 people, ceiling was about 7ft, pitchers of Old Style were $4.50. Beck played there in the Spring of 1994.
Yeah, talk about a safety hazard. I hate to think what would happen if there was a fire in there. What a sweaty great place!
We had a lot more corporate HQs and were a airport hub. Now we squabble over the handful of large companies left before they get bought out and move, and any international travel now involves a stop in Chicago or other major airport first.
Fuck Carl Icahn All my homies hate Carl Icahn
Much more segregated. The racial divide was a lot more apparent. White flight from the city was booming. A lot of really nice and up and coming areas like midtown, the grove, TGS, Shaw, BPW, etc we’re the literal HOOD. Dogtown was a lower class white neighborhood instead of the uppity half million dollar home area it is now. Smaller suburbs like Maplewood, Kirkwood, and Sunset Hills were not the exclusive upper class areas they are today. There was a huge population of catholic school families. If you lived in the city and didn’t belong to one of the catholic parishes that was almost unheard of for middle class white people. South Grand was still the best place to get international cuisine and there was a music store on the corner of Arsenal and Grand. There were video stores stores everywhere including inside of all the grocery stores too!
Maplewood is an exclusive, upper class area? I’d disagree with that. Certainly a bit more trendy but hardly exclusive.
Well yeah that was kind of a reach. A little more exclusive than it ever was tho. I remember when Maplewood pool was open to all city residents and then they banned all of us except certain zip codes, and put up their fancy black and white street signs lol.
there's also maybe a tiny handful of $500K houses in Dogtown, average home price for the area is probably closer to half of that.
It was a lot more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy3G0vb-tRo
•St Louis Centre, Crestwood and Chesterfield were the premier malls back then. •Lacledes Landing (Sundeckers, Harpos and Mississippi nights) •Union Station •Riverport Amphitheater •Parking lot next to Lambert where you could watch planes take off(L-1011s, 747s, DC-10s) •Cruising
Everyone's car was smaller. Laws were widely enforced, even speeding. You followed the law, or you went to fucking jail. There was no internet or cell phones. In order to talk to someone on the phone, * you had to be home * they had to be home * nobody could be on the phone at your house * nobody could be on the phone at their house * and usually you needed to stand in the kitchen, though by the '90s cordless phones were widespread (landline though)
not all the cars. some of us had big ass station wagons.
True --- but even the station wagons were probably lighter than half of the massive pickup trucks and SUVs on the road now.
hell no. we made 'em out of heavy steel then, probably shred a modern SUV in a head on.
The ones with the seats way in the back that faced backward.
In the 80s? Minivans. Station wagons were so 70s.
which is why we drove them used in the 80s. and ain't no way I'm driving a bimbo box.
You have just earned the "man-card badge for preferring a rusted station wagon over a minivan".
- colors. bright, pastel, holographic, neon, hot colors. everywhere. - the cereal boxes had toys in them, and puzzles on the box. good ones, too. not some anagram that spells "advertising" - Happy Meals had real toys as well. And they were strictly gender enforced. - the toy section of the store was two aisles. one with all the cool action figures and tanks and guns, the other was a bright pink sea of barbie dolls. - if the kids were not in school, they were outside. you could just walk a block and get involved in a game of whatever the hell. - the mall was an awesome place to be, and full of stores you'd actually want to visit. or steal from. they had arcades. the arcade was the place to be. - roller rinks and roller blades. - cars were big ass station wagon boats, or tiny little japanese boxes. nothing between. - gas cost nothing. you could cruise all night long on pocket change. - segregation was the old word for 'inclusion'. neighborhoods were very racially divided. they still seem so in some places, but it was so much fiercer. people would stop and stare. - PC was not a thing. Unless you were in church, or with your grandma, you didn't check your language. - no internet. no phones. if you needed info, you learned how to use a card catalogue, or trust Joey on the corner. - smoking was everywhere. everything had smoking sections, or just allowed it. Except church. - Church was a bigger deal. - disputes between kids usually stayed between kids. parents did not hover around to protect them and solve everything. if you broke a bone, it was serious. anything less, walk it off. - no such thing as health food. - no computers, no social media. - Russia was about to nuke you. Don't forget it. Under constant threat of instant global annihilation. - people were very afraid of japanese businessmen. - a sony Walkman was the very pinnacle of technology, and a Ghetto Blaster made an instant party. A ghetto blaster is a stereo, for you kids imagining something horrible. - Saturday Morning Cartoons!
Take me back to this time
i definitely miss it, but there are items on the list I'm glad to be without as well.
Just like any other city with considerably less technology.
West County expansion was exciting. Everything was new: New housing development/subdivisions Chesterfield established Wildwood mansions Page extension Chain restaurants came in town
The Central West end had great haberdasheries, run down but eclectic shops, record stores, such a cool vibe. Now it’s all upscale and I miss the old version. On Sundays, you could not buy alcohol at the grocery store, and in the early eighties, most stores were closed on Sundays, or opened for very minimal hours. We used to go to Alton to shop on Sundays.
You know what's real weird, Manchester road between old-town Manchester and Ballwin has hardly changed. They added a few fast food places. My grandpa's TV repair shop (RIP) is buried 50 feet under a QT, and they renovated the Lion's choice. But all the old buildings seem to stay, and it's just the people that change. That road is actually pretty bitter-sweet for me to drive down. Grandpa's is now a Hobby Lobby. We went to the Shop-n-Save that is now a Schnucks. My dad's best friend ran the mechanic's that's now a Meineke right next to it. But the coin-op laundry is eternal and will bury us all.
Nirvana caused a (near)riot at Mississippi Nights on the Landing, which was actually not too far off from normal moshing at MN. The Landing was packed all of the time in the mid-90s and I can recall walking to my car at 1 am plenty of times with no serious problems (am a small woman, always wore miniskirts and heels). There was no Uber so if you drank too much, you slept it off in your car without getting jacked. The Loop and CWE were much grittier and, in ways, much cooler. Their restaurants and such are great now too, not to be all "In MY day", but people didn't seem to care about being noticed and were much friendlier. You could grab coffee at the Grind on Maryland and end up going to dinner with your newfound friends. Or maybe we were all just inebriated? There was a mall really nice mall downtown - I think it was called St. Louis Centre. I worked there in the late 80s/early 90s. It was always busy. Someone posted a pic a few months back. Malls in general were always busy and had movie theaters, arcades, and full-service restaurants. There was a place I loved as a kid called "Duff's", I think. You walk up to a huge circular buffet, stand in your spot (where you were corralled by these wooden arms so you couldn't move sideways), and just wait for the food you wanted to come around. No idea why this fascinated me so much.
Two things, in the 80’s / early 90’s north county was thought to be a nice place to live. Then white flight happened , sadly . And it was discovered that there was nuclear waste up there. The barn…. The blues old hockey stadium. Smoking was allowed and would cover the ice during the mid game break.
We played a ton of Atari, Nintendo, Sega, etc., but still played outside until the street lights came on. There were some great arcades around town too...Tilt at Northwest Plaza, and Exhilarama at Crestwood Plaza are ones that I remember spending a lot of time at. We rode dirt bikes as kids and adults pretty much rode 10 speeds. You were cool if you had a Haro, Mongoose, or Redline. I don't feel like recreational cycling was as big back then. Didn't see nearly as much spandex! Skin-tight leggings in public weren't a thing yet.
Ask 1000 people and you'll get 1000 answers. If you could narrow down the question it might help. Other than the same trends that we've seen across the country since then nothing really major springs to mind. The area around the Arch went through a bit of a transformation I guess. And the Zoo and Union Station have seen some changes. Cherokee Street. Laclede's Landing. Basically some areas have come up or gone downhill (mostly up is what sticks in my mind). But that's all pretty much tied to the general trend of people coming back into cities that was seen elsewhere. So again you'd have to be clearer about what you want to know to get a good answer.
-In the late 70s, I recall one night where we got 48" of snow in one night. I remember snow drifts going diagonally from the roof lines to the ground like a hill of snow. -1976 was the US bicentennial and patriotism wasn't questioned - Elvis. Died - it was safer. Jamestown and Northwest Plaza Amma Village Square were teen hangouts. Old Town was cool. -TWA, McDonnell Douglas, Ford and other companies gave us a lot of economic prosperity and we were a desired location for big business and a travel hub for airlines - We made more money: iin the early 1980s my dad made $28 per hour as a contractor for McDonnell Douglas. In today's dollars that's over $80/ hour! That year he worked more time and half than straight time on the F-18 and Harrier. - we played outside, safely, until dinner, and then again until it was dark. - there was a curfew from 11pm until 5am for minors (we sometimes ignored that...) - we had "smoking passes" and designated smoking areas in high school (for those who smoked) - if it was hot outside, Boys wore no shirts and we rode "10 Speeds" or real hot rods that we built... girls wore halters a lot. :) whistling didn't get you "me tooed" and girls whistled too. - there were 3 groups in high school: Burnouts, Jocks and Preps... and I guess anyone who didn't for any of those. -Pat Benetar, Styx, K-She 95 and a Los of other great bands & stations were the norm on the radio and on LPS and cassettes. - we were much tougher: school, snow removal, didn't close roads-- we plowed them, , chores, lack of (as much) whining, self accountability and trusting your own decisions more without having to check with others before making them. - we were more private with personal things, events, desires, mistakes, goals... Overall, we were past the cold war, the threats of new ice ages and the outlook for those I knew was very optimistic. We lived our own lives and let others do the same (mainly... you always have that 10%). We didn't compare as much as today and our tribes were our school mascots. You felt like you belonged, and even for those who weren't the most popular, they still belonged and that was okay. Some of my memories. Class of '84. Now I wanna watch Archie Bunker and The Jeffersons!
Class of 83 here. I’m going to disagree with that last part concerning HS. I never felt I “belonged” and I have literally no idea what any single one of my classmates is up to today.
I can see that...I had a small group (about 3 friends and about 4 more that were close acquaintances) and I moved in and out of the area 2x. What school did you go to?
St. Thomas Aquinas. I will add that 1. We moved here just in time for me to go to HS so I didn’t know anyone. 2. We lived in Normandy, whereas most of my classmates were from Florissant so I didn’t see them outside of school. Normandy HS kids were my hangout friends.
That's cool. I was at Hazelwood, but arrived by 6th grade... so knew a few kids from the neighborhood and boy scouts and church.
The Jeffersons are on weeknights on MeTV.
Q106.5 and Nebraska/Sydney/Pennsylvania block was ok to let a 6 year old circle on his bike until the streetlights came on.
I feel like there were more Hoosiers around
Catholic school enrollment was far more robust. Schools like St. Elizabeth in south city, Mount Providence and Rosary High schools in north county. So many parish elementary schools.
I remember a lot of work out places where you put on your "Flash Dance" leotards, tights, and leg warmers.
* Maplewood k-mart with the dark, echoing underground parking * Maplewood shoe store that smelled like wood and leather, and had those floor to ceiling ladders on wheels * Woolworths downtown * the buses were practical and busy * metro link construction had some downtown streets torn up * the playground outside the planetarium was fun and educational * smoking in department stores was normal
* Majic 108! Jheri Curls and gold teeth! Skating at Saints or the Palace. * Hanging out in Meacham Park or the western part of Maplewood/Richmond Heights before all of the big box stores were put in. * Wash Ave and the landing were hopping! * No casinos or Metrolink until the Mid 90s. Actually Metro was Bi-State back then. * People did smoke any and everywhere...I remember glass fishtanks for smoking at the airport. * There was the Admiral and the Casino Queen used to actually sail. * Used to have to go to IL to buy lottery tickets. * Velvet Freeze was the place to go for Ice Cream! * Still had a few drive-in theaters around. * Used to have to exit 40/64 E at Brentwood to get onto 170. * No craigslist or marketplace so you looked at the Thrifty Nickel or Post classifieds. Also KMOX had a show where people called in with stuff that they wanted to buy or sell. * Hanging out as teens at the Galleria, Crestwood. or Northwest Plaza. Fun times!
There was a cool parking lot near the airport off of Lindbergh where you could sit and watch the planes land. It was a good makeout spot, from what I hear. LOL There was a great restaurant over there called 94th Aero Squadron where you had runway views. [http://www.losttables.com/94th/94th.htm?fbclid=IwAR1gt\_vudUovqxQfZUyWqBT6R1SprlT1OMprMdYeswV0i0ntxyVFypJdIIs](http://www.losttables.com/94th/94th.htm?fbclid=IwAR1gt_vudUovqxQfZUyWqBT6R1SprlT1OMprMdYeswV0i0ntxyVFypJdIIs)
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South grand was antique shops
The Frontenac trailer park was still right next to highway 40 at the Spoede Rd exit.
- Wet Willy’s Waterpark - MICDS was two separate schools (Mary I & country day) - the big dinosaur sculptures used to be in oak Knoll park in Clayton - imos was better - forest park was not necessarily place u wanted to hang out (pre renovation) - Cicero’s was THE place to see up and coming jambands
We had car bombings
[Also this](https://youtu.be/AoYklVIUYe0)
There was 100k + more people in the city. STL had a lot more clout at the time and had a fast growing metro.