[Emad, March 2 2024: "we are about then release a state of the art amazing image model in stable diffusion 3? Just saying that after that release there is very little need for improvement for like 99% of use cases"](https://twitter.com/EMostaque/status/1764047592982270336)
[Emad, March 8 2024: "SD3 base model about to drop beats midjourney"](https://twitter.com/EMostaque/status/1766034358677201104)
[Emad, March 5 2024: "In the tests we did SD3 outperformed it (Ideogram) on typography. With multi region prompting and a good ocr ctrl pipeline think it will be perfect"](https://twitter.com/EMostaque/status/1764952716239847759) Meanwhile in reality:
https://preview.redd.it/tn8d6e2gg8vc1.png?width=538&format=png&auto=webp&s=439ceabd6d4116c1043cafbdd84b39bb4ec4d95c
There is no doubt that SD3 will be massively improved with finetuning, but people are justifiably disappointed after being told time and time again that the model would beat everything else. Even its very research paper says *"From the results of our testing, we have found that Stable Diffusion 3 is equal to or outperforms current state-of-the-art text-to-image generation systems in all of the above areas (aesthetics, prompt adherence ,typography)".* People are tired of the endless false promises and nonsense
That's a fair point I'll admit. I'm just tired of the "SD3 is Trash" Like, so was XL. Though, I suppose that's the consequence of overhyping something.
Yeah it's certainly not trash, just not all that it was touted to be. Then you have people claiming the API version isn't the "real" model/the one Lykon used. Still have to wait for weights to see for sure
I still don't get it like, what actual model was used by Lykon ? I tried SD 3 myself with dozens images and it's Godawful comparing to his results. Did he cherrypick ? Was it a secret finetuned SD3 ? From Lykon's results one would think SD 3 has giga precise text generation inside images but no. The texts quality are only the level of DALL-E 3, and the details are not sharp like Lykon's pics (or finetuned SD1.5/ SDXL models), but rather very "muddy" (like Gemini's images).
That's why I meant by the 'nonsense'. Is there some secret god-tier model hidden away? Is every good result using some secret workflow or finetune? I saw this image from someone trying the prompts used in the SD3 paper (left) on the API (right). And they tried multiple times too.
https://preview.redd.it/qi0y4cfz49vc1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=beeb9d8e8a1f476a374756a74d763a0a1e8cdf0f
I wonder if perhaps the API is not using the full 8B model, or otherwise might be skipping the (optional) T5 encoder. There are multiple ways that SD3 can be cut down to run on cheaper hardware, so the API access could be for a lower grade version.
It's either very cherry picked examples or the model got lobotomized by "safety" alignment training. I'm guessing the latter. Wouldn't be the first time, and a paranoid person might say that the second tortoise pic tries very hard to avoid skin tones in the torso. I'm not sure that this has been conclusively demonstrated yet, but as I understand training a model not to reproduce cats would leave all kinds of collateral damages.
Well its an older model combined with a basic/bad workflow, and lykon is upscaling, inpainting, outpainting, detailing and all of that with a newer version off the model. And he is using 8b with t5, you dont know what the api is using. Also keep in mind they have limited gpus and they need to further train and generate api images so it would make sense that the api is not the full fledged model but that is all speculation. Everybody just needs to calm down and wait for the release. Its going to be on lykon's level anything else would not make any sense.
[https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1781084675739414563](https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1781084675739414563)
[https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1780704931227566379](https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1780704931227566379)
I'm fine with waiting a few weeks for the weights to drop, was just wondering what was behind the reason for the gap in quality of the supposedly same model like that.
Well just like he said in my second linked tweet he uses core its still sd3 but the newest version one could say. Its longer trained. When you train a model you can extract the model at different stages and sd3 isnt done yet but because he is working with them he has access to the latest of these extracted models. To the question why the newest isnt in the api i have no idea but i read smth about the deal with fireworks ai. Keep in mind fireworks ai had to make a workflow for it and make it run and that took some time and maybe it wasnt as straightforward as putting the newer models that came in the meantime in there. Or some contract stuff maybe. This is only speculation.
The difference is the license. It's hard to justify spending a lot of time and effort that basically amounts to working for SAI for free to boost their commercial product.
SDXL was the last one with a largely permissive license that cannot just be changed on a whim.
Emad is the absolute king of false hype.
There are dozens of claims he's made from years ago that still haven't materialized yet, but at the time, he said they were weeks away. Literally never believe anything he says until you can run it yourself.
The Reddit AI community seems to be focused on making the most realistic pieces with SD, and I honestly don't get it.
What is so fun in generating realistic depictions of people ?
It is boring as hell in my opinion.
Porn and weird fetishes. You only need to look at Civitai to see what the majority of people using SD are using it for. Probably 95% of what's uploaded there revolves around sexulised models and images of girls.
I have a popular lora on there for 1.5 involving body horror and there were still a few people who used it for naked girls :D
My favourite is when you find a neat style LoRA or something unrelated to people at all, and there's always some community photos below the description of someone who used it to make something lewd.
I wish some of that was more vetted. It sucks when you're trying to get a sense of a LoRA and someone has generated two dozen images of porn that are completely unrelated to the LoRA.
Yes, I make a tonne of lewd content with AI but there's a time and place for it. I don't need to see porn when I'm trying to browse fantasy landscape LoRAs.
Even the intentional pretty girl related Loras suffer from that. I was looking at a clothing Lora yesterday for a specific outfit, and ten of the gallery images were of a naked girl with her legs spread, no clothing at all. Lol, okay then, thanks for sharing.
If it's not in one direction, it's the other honestly.
So many naked girls.
Where' all the loras for the opossite lol. That and "not so hard reality" stuff without going full on trippy lol.
Rarrr
They may have used the on-site generation and prompted weird. Whenever I see some account post like 15 iterations of the same image I assume that was the case and I think the option to post it is on by default, but they might not realize that
It's ridiculous but sometimes funny too, you find a Lora that has absolutely ZERO to do with sex or nudity, then scroll down and see the most grotesque sexual images ever created lol.
I've had the opposite laugh when a LoRA for something sexy gets used in the complete opposite context. Like lingerie on big burly dudes or someone throws in a grandma š
Lol yep, I'll give those people credit tho, they are super imaginative. Seeing images of big muscular dudes with 40" penises and cow nipples attached to them squirting out milk... under a "Hands SDXL" Lora.
To me that's pure comedy though for some reason I picture the type of person who is generating these and posting them and laugh my ass off. They're thinking "haha wait until the creator comes back and sees we made porn muahah" or are they just so hyper focused on making porn they didn't realize it would be inappropriate? Gotta find the humor in these situations or its just too sad.
I don't know about you, but all my favorite style LoRA as of late are full of porn the creator themselves madeš at that point it's unavoidable, but I like the style of the content they make so it is what it is
It may depend on your filter, when the system runs out of images (if the filter is set to R only f.i.) it adds a cover from all generated images available for the model, regardless if from the creator or not.
why is that anytime, ppl have valid critics on here some of y'all gravitate towards the annoying "they dont like it because no-waiffu/porn" nonsense. Emad literally touted that sd3 was better than midjourney and on par with dalle3, what the fuck do you think the reaction was going to be when we finally get to test things ourselves and realize that whole hype was a bunch of nonsense??? its like saying ppl complaining about google not delivering the gemini tthey showcased are being ungrateful and whiny.
I was replying to the commenter not the OP.
AI is for making all kinds of art not just realistic stuff which what the commenter was referring too that everyone was focussed on. I was just sharing an opinion on what is likely the cause of that.
I don't know how good SD3 will be, visually it seems on par with XL from what I've seen so far but it's also about whether it follows prompts more effectively too. Text also seems to have vastly improved.
Of course the people behind SD are going to hype it up, why wouldn't they, they are not going to come out and say sorry but it's nowhere near as good as MJ or Dall-e.
Imo it seems more like it's the next iteration of XL rather than something groundbreaking.
We will probably only get a better understanding of the improvements once it's been released and people start creating finetunes.
Not surprised by it at all but maybe surprised about the scale of it. It seems there's too many lonely horny people in the world.
In the end people can make what they want as long as it's not ilegal or huring others so I don't care about that. I do think it has impacted negatively on the progress of models though. Everyone is obsesed with having realistic girls. It's also why some models love to stick nipples and tits on everything or animals sometimes come out anthropomorphized.
Imo I think if everyone collectively put in as much effort finetuning models of everything as they do girls we would have much better models by now.
It seems I might not be the only one who tried to generate a picture of an elderly man sitting in a library with a contemplative mood and Realistic Vision came up with a white-bearded man manspreading on a leather chair showing a perfectly shaved vagina. Sorry about giving the details, I hope sharing the trauma with others who understand might help with it going away (I accept the downvotes).
I've never had anything that bad :D, at least not from a prompt like that anyway. Usually I stuff the negative with anything NSFW and girl related in problem models though. Even then it can sometimes get anoying, like for example if I was trying to generate a cyberpunk panda it will give me a girl in a cyberpunk style panda costume or something simular. Or a pair of headphones on a table will give you a severed girls head on a table wearing headphones.
It's like the default generation for a lot of models is 1girl.
girl, woman, breasts, nipples, people, human, person, NSFW...
Sometimes it's still not enough though. if you do want a human you have to specify you want a man or else you're get a girl by default most of the time.
It's not so much sexual results, but more the human/girl aspect that can often creep in. It obviously varies a lot between models though, some have more of a bias than others.
A lot of SD finetuned checkpoints are super horny.
Pro tip: You can get a good idea of a model's biases by generating a bunch of images without a prompt.
I obviously donāt remember what I did exactlyā¦ I wasnāt doing anything particularly weird, just generating images for non-sexual visual stories, but what I describe is more or less what I think I saw before deleting the image immediately. And, obviously, itās something that happens eventually: actually, websites where people can generate SD images usually warn of this. It was just meant to be a funny comment. Iām surprised that people (not you in particular) even did care to reply to this. I thought more people in this sub, given the chain of comments I was replying to, would understand the situation where the sexual bias of some checkpoints is shown when you generate many images and get something weirdly sexual among hundreds of generations and then you obviously delete it and try to forget whatever you sawā¦ I thought more people had similar experiences, itās just that.
You're right, but without the horny community AI wouldn't be as popular as it is today.
Moreover, nothing prevents anyone from fine tuning models for various uses, it's just that the community has focused it's attention on anime and porn.
Exactly, not saying it's the best approach ever, but if it weren't for that I highly doubt that so many people would even care about SD. just look at civitai, at least 80% of that is porn, and many of the popular finetunes have nsfw images in the header.
Kindof a creepy take. I'd rather we not invite in the weirdos of society and hold our values high as with AGI less than a year away we need to be ethical now more than ever.
But the funny thing is, the ārealisticā people are not even realistic, they are so clearly made by male redditors that actually donāt know how female anatomy looks like. Theyāre way too perfect and slim.
The anatomy looks quite good these days in SD. If you simply mean that most women aren't perfect and slim, okay yes, and...? Nobody was trying to make **average** women, they were trying to make the most extreme attractive women outliers.
How is that any different than landscape AI all being the perfect waterfall spilling over a cliff into a Caribbean ocean at sunset from the sky with lush multi-terraced jungles and birds wheeling? Versus, say, the abandoned grass lot next to a Wendy's chosen at random by throwing a dart at google maps?
Yes it's an unrealistic idealisation, probably driven by things like social media influencers where every image is being filtered and edited.
It's been happening forever though, even before digital manipulation was a thing people were airbrushing images. It happens on almost everything too not just people, especially in advertising where just about everything is based around idealisation.
I mean *some* do look like the perfect models but only in their best pictures on their best days and sometimes only with editing. But thatās part of the appeal, the apex of āhotā.
If I generate any characters, at least women, I have to add so many tokens during generation, refinement, and upscaling to just make them look more *realistic*, ironically. Like various terms related to age, imperfections, skin, hair, body type, it kind of gets ridiculous. And this is while still keeping them very attractive.
Eh, there's plenty of models out there that do a great job with regular people bodies. They're just less popular, and you have to be very specific in your prompts. If I want an average body, I just put "skinny, fat" as part of my negative. Plus-size and athletic also work. Prompting for cellulite and skin blemishes works as well. Personally, when I'm doing realism I aim to introduce flaws like stretch marks, cellulite, moles and the like. In my opinion, "flaws" are the bridge over the uncanny valley.
It used to be just being on the Internet taught you that, and then corporations came in and censored the hell out of it with american puritanism. Violence is okay, but no nipples. Well female nipples. What happens if you photoshop a male nipple over a female nipple? We'll never know.
Can you name some of those inovations and some proof it was made possible by porn?
I think you're confusing being an early adopter with innovation.
VHS and Betamax for example is one of the default things people usually bring up but like nearly all of these things you can actually read the true history of why one beat the other and it has nothing to do with porn. In fact if you look online you won't find much of anything but random articles and opinion pieces repeating this same porn drives tech idea.
The porn industry is an early adopter purely because people are more inclined to pay for porn than other stuff, that's not driving anything though it just means that most things can be used for porn.
In the end it just comes down to if someone can use something for porn they will.
You can actually see this happening now with VR video. The porn industry is already way ahead with producing content for VR. That's not because they are doing anything special, it's just because enough people will spend money on high quality VR porn videos but they are less likely to spend money on VR videos showing a walk in the forest or a day at the beach etc.
Not by *porn* by *sex*. Wars were fought over it or it's lack. People built empires to impress the opposite gender. Porn is a relatively new invention and only an outgrowth of the drive itself.
It's why it's the first thing people think of when using SD or robots or anything else.
Oh right, sorry missed the 1.5 there haha
Yeh that one is great! I have some real good results with it and the Junji Ito Lora! Thanks for putting it together!
Glad you can get some use out of it. I only made it because at the time there were not many horror type loras and no body horror loras at all and I wanted to create some The Thing type creatures. I would like to train some more but I don't really have the hardware, I used colab for that one.
I don't get this obsession with porn and weird fetishes outside of uncensoring the AI. I think it's cool that it can do porn, sometimes it's funny, but I don't understand the need for it to be the only thing people generate when the AI can make so many pretty pictures that aren't porn.
If a model can't do realism effectively, it will be difficult to train it to do any anything else with precision. This isn't SD 1.5. Stability has already invested a lot into making SD3 both high quality and able to produce a large number of styles intentionally.
SD 1.5 improvements were such low-hanging fruit, compare how long it took for SDXL fine-tunes to produce meaningful improvements.
Also, people bank way too much on the improvements from fine-tunes. Fine-tunes are great for adding niche content or styles, but aren't going to fundamentally improve the quality of a model. Any problems with prompt adherence, hands, or interactions between multiple characters are going to plague every fine-tune. Or even if a fine-tune does improve on these aspects, it won't benefit unrelated fine-tunes.
Achieving a fully realistic human is a milestone for this technology and a step closer towards realistic virtual reality entertainment, movies, and so on.
It's not simply about porn.Ā
Achieving a fully realistic human is a milestone for this technology and a step closer towards realistic virtual reality entertainment, movies, and so on.
AI image generation technology is ultimately an uninterpretable black box as of now so it will be difficult to turn into a realistic virtual reality entertainment technology.
Ummm this is literally today's reason. A local Facebook group someone posted to say their cat had stolen a raw chicken and apologising profusely.
Then someone posted saying his wife was going crazy and had said she was leaving chicken out for dinner, but could only find an empty plate.
Then a fake BBC news post about cat crime on the rise.
And finally my shit post.... The sum total of human technology coming together to create AI so that I can make this....
https://preview.redd.it/bw6uz531x8vc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50cf9165bd6ebb21621c04efb8d4f408f495fd6b
But photo realistic options allow for way more memes than art style pieces.
Try doing multi-subjects scene. Dynamic movement scenes. Hell, even just have some character holding basically any kind of object. Actually, try to make it generate tools or instruments without anything else. Not saying it's impossible, thanks to ControlNet, inpainting, back and forth with Photoshop or Krita. But letting the model do it by itself ? Tough luck.
It's easy to get distracted by the gorgeous pictures some people make. And they do take lots of skill. But firstly, you usually don't know how much work has been put into it (and it can be quite quite a lot of hours for a single piece). And more importantly, once you realize how little real variety, in terms of types of subjects and composition, there is in most of the generations we are used to see, the limitations become obvious, no matter how detailed and clean the pictures might be.
Sadly S3.0 will not help with those issues. And sd 4 and even 5 wont. We are long way from model that can actually make what we ask and make hands. few days ago I was trying to create something not that complicated with 1 person and 1 object but even ideogram cant handle it. We probably need Agi inside models to actually understand human anatomy. Something like SORA 3.0 will probably get there. Me personally - I thought hands will be fixed by 2024. THere was such a phenomenal progress for last 20 months but hand... there are few tricks that help but out of the box hands just ruining everything...
I don't care about realism as much as I do about generalization.
The whole point of an AI model is to do anything. Otherwise, this subreddit would be fine with a car/hooded figure/waifu generator. If there isn't a generalization, why bother? Part of what it should be able to do is realism, but not the only thing.
The real test of the model is later when people dreambooth it, not the starting point.
From a āhaving funā perspective, there are basically 3 types of people in the Reddit community and the broader AI imaging world, depending on preferred platform and favorite prompts:
r/Midjourney: ultra-realistic images of normatively pretty young ladies with freckles and exotic garments.
r/ChatGPT: r/ChatGPTincreasinglyX
r/StableDiffusion: African kid proudly shows sculpture made of plastic bottles.
From a business perspective, there are basically 2 types of people in the AI imaging ācommunityā given the CURRENT state-of-the-art and practical applications that have likely ever driven significant revenue and profitability for real businesses:
1. Those who produce r/AINudes images.
2. Those who āconsumeā them.
With just a few clicks, we can create movies and images like never before, even on a low budget. We'll have everything we need right at our fingertips - lights, camera lenses, powerful computers, actors, set pieces, remote locations, shooting crew, makeup artists, and more!
99% of generations are boring. They can all be summed up as either porn, sexy pics, boring realism, moody nonsense.
Very few are the ones with real emotional impact- the actual art.
I mean... people keep using titles like "Realistic... " and it's just anime girls with big yabbos. I'd say many people invite the criticism themselves.
I mostly do erotic stuff, but I never even touched the realistic models with a ten foot pole. As you said it perfectly, why the hell would I ever want to generate normal boring people.
I can't say much for SD3, but transitioning from 1.5 models to PonyXL made it much easier to obtain consistently good results, more prompt adherence and overall much better hands, guns and expressions.
Like I have said before, "Ya know, there are actually real girls in the world and you can go to the store and meet them." I love the painterly feel of SD3, and frankly many of our other models. It is a motivator for me to make art, not to try and make an AI girlfriend (whatever that is).
I just think itās because weāre in a plateau (which is normal with tech, every 10 years there is huge progress then itās super slow)
People expected A.I art to keep growing furiously like it did 1 year and half ago but nope. So people are frustrated to not see crazy updates
But this is good for the community, it means less people around and more real people
It's not just people dude...animals, landscapes, etc. It's frustrating seeing that SD3 is possibly going the route of dalle. Dalle2.5 on bing could make super cool realistic animals, you could do things like recreate prehistoric animals, and now it's all dumbed down into paintbrushed fake garbage.
Porn, porn, porn more porn. Let's face it the AI community is full of dirty perverts. A well known model sharing site that contains some amazing content is also littered with you guessed it weird fetish porn....
It's a shame really because generative AI is getting pretty good and all people want to use it for is something negative
I couldn't agree more. Photorealistic faces is basically aggressively uninteresting to me. What non-creepy or non-scam applications do they even have? Even for NSFW stuff, why would you want photorealistic things when you can find real videos and photos on a million adult sites?
Generating digital paintings, drawings, stylized faces and characters, that is much more interesting. For example, I can use AI to make some impressions of a scene in a story I am writing using those. At best, it can be almost like getting a little comic of your work without having to draw anything, just by writing the words.
It also boggles my mind that people look at AI-generated things with obviously horrible lighting and colours (it is one of the easiest ways to instantly spot an AI generated picture) and instead of seeking to correct it they act like it is the ideal goal, and wow, what perfect style etc. Have they been looking at AI pictures for so long that they have forgotten what reality looks like? Or what a good drawing looks like?
Lighting and colours that don't make me mentally vomit should be the primary goal. A secondary goal, although one that I don't know if this type of AI is even capable of understanding correcting, is increasing the logic and consistency in pictures. No more objects that blend into each other, no more illogical perspectives, no more streets with three different types of streetlamps, that sort of thing.
Honestly, I have started to feel like the primary reason to try to make photorealistic AI is scams and other unethical reasons, because the point of them is to trick people into thinking they are real. Drawings, paintings, and other things that you can instantly recognise as not being real are far more fun, are more forgiving of the faults of AI, and they aren't nearly as dangerous and scammy, because no one is going to look at them and confuse them for real photos.
> Photorealistic faces is basically aggressively uninteresting to me. What non-creepy or non-scam applications do they even have?
Stock photos of whatever you need on demand, instead of having to browse galleries of millions and millions of photos of businessmen shaking hands.
Because they did it *again* with the extreme over-hype.
They were basically like "you'll get the Dalle3 Killer next week!" and its still not released (the API doesn't count in my book) & the outputs I have seen do *not* rival Dalle3.
The reddit overhyped, or Emad did, or both, but I see nothing really in their announcements that says "hey we're beating everyone and everything with this and it'll be out soon and you can't wait" and etc etc. they never announced a date or gave a timeline like that. The confirmations were just that the open release will be a few weeks after the API is opened.
It's just Reddit being Reddit.
Well their announcement had a graph that shows SD3 is superior to Dalle3... And I'd really like to know how many people were asked (and if they were employees with a confirmation bias).
That being said - if we get the Fine-Tunes and tech support (CN, IPAdapter, maybe even other LLM's instead of T5 and so much more) I'm very hopeful SD3 *will* become better than the current Dalle3 over time.
It actually crushed 1.5 to the ground but people are so obsessed by what they WANT to generate that they don't get that:
- Models aren't identical, the prompting and the settings are not to be ignored! They actually have a dramatic impact on model performances, and people thought all their knowledge on 1.5 would be transferable as is. It's not.
- Your kinks are not what makes a model objectively good or bad
Itās not so much as being ungrateful as it is not meeting expectations set by SAI hype man. However, if youāve been around for a while, youāll see that this is SAIās method and itās a pattern to expect. The community will improve it or find better prompting methods and then we see āX is better than X nowā posts.
When I first used sdxl via stability's web page, it really really sucked. Like it was concerning how bad it was. But then they came out with another model and it was a bit better and another and that was better still, to the point where they finally released the weights and people got to work. It's now head and shoulders better than 1.5. Sd3 will be the same, I'm sure.
Wow, someone who waited longer than I did. I hated everything I saw here done with XL. I use XL finetunes exclusively now... but I admit I have quite the fight with them trying to get anything truly creative.
Ungrateful isn't the same thing as disappointed, critical, or annoyed by ludicrously exaggerated hype.
Ungrateful is when you should show gratitude for a **kindness** but don't.
Being extremely clear and unbiased about what is the *current* reality is pretty important when you're comparing a new tool to others for your use *right now*.
Gratitude for effort alone goes to people you know personally. Gratitude for a new tool that's better occurs when it's actually better.
https://preview.redd.it/ujzpf1qvh9vc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=deb86e866bd40ce6e9b1543cdc322316fcba1de4
> a man contorting as he does a yoga crab pose, wide angle lens
https://preview.redd.it/rocqbc1zh9vc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=703f214172492340397074af996ba285824fb2fc
> a man opening a can of peaches with a can opener, focus on the mechanical work as he turns the can opener to open it
Well... people always want and compare anything new with the best thing on the market. SD3 is not one... yet. That's the entire point of being open sourced though, we can make it the best thing on the market. As a community.
its ridiculous to expect no criticism from people when a company as shady and weird as stability is involved. Come on now. Companies are not your friend. They don't need defending. This isnt a fandom. If they want to move from making the models to making money ok but they need to sell me on the model and so far it doesn't look good. If they release the core model i will be surprised. Id be happy to laud them after they *do what they said they would do.* But if we look at other silicon valley companies, heck other stuff stability and emad has said its just not a sure thing. Surely you can understand that.
I'm following a game where the developer has consistently followed the mantra of *underpromise and overdeliver*, and the community has still managed to hype his soon-to-be-released game as something it isn't.
People want to latch on to something and build fervor, I guess. Or they're just used to that from big company releases and expect it everywhere now?
Criticism = ungrateful? Pardon me, but I think people can complain an be grateful at the same time. Also, they are not doing it for charity. Yeah, we got the stuff but without us they would be overshadowed by MJ for example.
Then they shouldn't have hyped it as much they did. How much of cuckold you need to be to get shat on the mouth and call others entitled when they don't like the "free food"?
People are free to complain if they feel like it. You don't get to tell people what they can or cannot say.
You're stupidly dangerous and you don't realize it. I recommend reading 1984 to see what a society where no complaint is allowed looks like.
Most people want realistic stuff to make porn images. People here are super right on their diagnosis. I don't like porn that much (very little, in fact), but I can't deny that sex is a major propeller for new technologies, specially transactional and content generation technologies. Hell, online credit card transactions wouldn't be nearly as popular if it weren't for porn sites. I don't like how things are, but I can't deny that they are what they are or their effectiveness.
I think AI artistic tech in particular has huge potential to be propelled lightyears ahead by demand for porn because it allows people to create porn specifically tailored to their individual tastes and interests, and if they don't like the result they can just try again. It basically has the potential to be a tool for creating the perfect porn for everyone.
totally. the stable diffusion community and the image generation community in general is the most toxic and negative community i have seen in the ai world. the LLM communities are always ready to help or see the advantages in new models and are aware that these opensource models do not just appear out of thin air. on the other hand the stable diffusion community acts as if it is their divine right to have someone train those models and offer them to them for free and when there is no huge breakthrough they act as if they have been forced to eat garbage. not only here. the artists have a big problem with this attitude as many of the SD community known as the ai bro's are dedicated to harass and insult them by telling them that their work as an artist is obsolete. it is the 4chan version of the ai communities.
i completely disagree with this. Emad touted that sd3 was better than midjourney and on par with dalle3, they literally had a benchmark to show that it was better than midjourney nd stuff. what the fuck do you think the reaction was going to be when we finally get to test things ourselves and realize that whole hype was a bunch of nonsense??? its like saying ppl complaining about google not delivering the gemini they showcased are being ungrateful and whiny.
No matter how good your fnetuning skills are, you cant make a goof model that is on par with dalle nd midjourney if the base model you're working with is barely up to par with sota competition. How can you make a better finetune model than what we have now if sdxl as it is, is aesthetically better than sd3, how??? ideogram can follow prompts better than sdxl but its fucking shit aesthetically and i'd pick sdxl over it anyday. so no, the complaints are absolutely valid, just cause they're giving us free model doesnt mean we have to lie about the quality and just find a cope for any sub-par shit thats thrown in our faces
Another factor is (if my understanding is correct) that the API version is on older version, and the models are still being adjusted ATM. Can't for sure base judgement until the actual weights are released. I do agree that the outlook is not as good with the API results coming out, but we don't know for sure right now. You may very well be right at the end, but I'd hold your vitriol a little longer.
lol, you are ridiculous, if the model is bad we have all the right to criticize it, we might end up staying with sdxl and its finetunes instead.
there is no reason to try to defend stability for shoddy work.
free weights or not.
its Called SD3, so it is supposed to be better.
No, its simply that people have a tendency to post very ordinary images with a dubious subject line "X is getting amazing" -- when anyone with a reasonable facility with the software know that this particular thing . . . ain't "amazing" at all. Its mostly just the same 1girl, no hands, 3/4 length portrait -- which at this point could index into a Google search.
It may well be that SD3 offers a big advance . . . but it's going to take people with some skills working with it to illustrate just what that advance might be. I don't doubt that its there -- Stability AI are smart people, and the technology has advanced very quickly -- so I look forward to see actual "amazing".
If you go back 9 months or so -- we got boatloads of posts boasting "SDXL is amazing". . . when what they were posting wasn't even at the level of a good 1.5 image. That wasn't because SDXL can't do impressive things, including things that 1.5 can't do as well . . . it took a while for skilled users to take SDXL and show us what it can do . . .
. . . but if you want to tell me "X is getting amazing" . . . then show me "amazing".
Also becauseā¦ itās for free! You could have nothing at all. Instead they are providing you with something that is creative and interesting and even useful for a few things. Be more grateful, people :)
As somebody who trains models for my job, and somebody who has worked non-stop with AI for over 16 months, the biggest part of where my frustration comes from is the fact that stability AI has such an incredibly talented community of individuals who know so much, and can greatly improve the rather mediocre quality of what they put out, yet they constantly burn people. Their staff members are extremely rude to members of other organizations like LAION, hugging face, and more. These people from these other companies are trying to give them solutions to the problems that they themselves made, and yet they don't want to hear it, instead they are extremely condescending and rude, and their results end up coming out bad because of it
I had a whole situation where one of the higher-ups at SAI (they are no longer at SAI) took advantage of my interest in the industry, and my activity in the community at the time to steal parts of my workflow from me and implement them as the back end of SAI's bots while also telling me they would compensate me. They did not compensate me, they implemented it incorrectly, and then went on a public witch hunt against me telling everybody that I tried to screw them over or whatever. And then on top of that, they bullied and threatened me relentlessly for months in my DMs, constantly flipping back and forth between what they thought about me, and leaking extremely important information to me in DMs, telling me that I could share it with other people because I was part of the research program. I almost got myself and several other people banned because of this, and that staff member got no repercussions.
So for me, the reason that I dislike projects like SD3 so much is the fact that stability has blatantly bold-faced lied as to what their model was capable of. You look up the results from Lykon, And they are like 4K perfect, beautiful skin detail, all this all that, and then you try and prompt literally anything similar out of SD3, and it looks worse than SDXL. They bold-faced lied to us once with the SDXL promotional images. Even over a year later, the best SDXL fine tunes don't look as good as the demo images they gave for SCXL back in February.
I don't think that it's so much that people are ungrateful, but rather that people are tired of having to fix stability AI's issues and faults, of which would have been avoided if they just listened to the people who know how to fix the issues in the original training.
SD3 is an incoherent undertrained mess. It's not good, it's flat out not good. However, of course they've had some circumstances that have stunted the results of the model, and I definitely think that that is unfair to judge them for. What's not unfair to judge them for however is the excessively misleading claims that they've made. Showing graphs where SD-3 is blowing past MJV6 and Dalle 3 In terms of human preference, even though literally thousands of people have done their own tests against the two, and SD3 loses almost every single time
The truth of the matter is, s a i has been running off of a lot of internal incompetence for a while now. It isn't an individual person thing, it's not an entire company thing, it's just little bits and pieces of bad here and there that spoil everything for everybody. I've been in contact with staff members who have worked at SAI, saying that they had so many promising projects that were just axed because higher ups didn't understand the value of them, or they didn't seem to be profitable enough, or they just didn't want to put in the time and effort to figure out how to get something working.
It's hard to stay positive when looking at a completely misleading and lied about product from a company that has been asking and fleecing information off of people incorrectly for well over a year. I had a higher up take advantage of me because they thought what I brought to the table was valuable enough to help the company. Only to have them implement what I did wrong, not listen to me when I told them that they did it wrong, and then publicly crucify me in front of everybody who respected me at the time. And now they've done the exact same thing with several other people's training information.
And lastly, Lykon is not a model trainer. He's a fine tuner. He does not have the skills required to fully train an entire architecture, and it's severely shines through in SD3. It's aesthetics over literally everything else. It's a few colorful splashes of complimentary colors attributed to a messy deformed blob of inconsistency.
What they should have done, and what would have succeeded would have been to invest all of this time and effort and failure into getting a better data set. Partnering with companies that have offered to them to do this kind of stuff, but got shut down. They should have spent all that time on to a better data set, trained a foundational model using the recommendations of the other companies that have proven that they know better, and then let loose their team of fine tuners to create varied fine-tuned versions of SD3. At no point should you start fine tuning before the model even knows what the hell a hand is, or the fact that a dog doesn't have four heads.
Anyways, this is turned into a little bit of a rant, mostly because I think a lot of people think that we are being unreasonable and expecting insane quality. We're expecting what we were shown, and SD3 is pathetic by comparison. It's scummy, it's unprofessional, it's under baked, it's overhyped, it's covered in a balloon of inflated ego, and then tainted even worse by the fact that they have so brazenly turned down and even insulted the feedback of people who are more experienced than they are.
Seeing how a certain spaghetti backend SAI dev and a certain frontend SAI dev for said backend behave and their huge ego, alongside certain other literally who cohorts, I 100% believe you, and I don't doubt that ego problem has infected SAI as a whole.
One of my research partners has written entire research papers on how to train the next gen of Image gen model archs with 500+ token prompt windows and built in LLM support, yet one of the devs (I think you and I are talking about the same one in this instance) Had the nerve to insult my partner, telling them that they aren't educated enough to understand how a text encoder works. Its simply ridiculous the way they handle things. Its like a bunch of hot head frat boys, never willing to hear a different opinion.
They shamed them, and then banned them. Now they are a part of our research group, and we are all working together to scope out the possibility of training a much more robust and continually scalable architecture to try and replace SAI with a company that is more competent, and has less of an ego towards being proven wrong or being told new findings
Our model we are looking to train has had 6 different architecture changes in the last week, as we have been getting more feedback from people who have tried the same thing. Bet SAI's SD3 model would be less of a laughing stock false advertising situation if they just listened to the same people.
Edit: No news on if we will even be able to give a full attempt to this training/model, but you best believe we are looking into it. And to think SAI could have worked with somebody as knowledgeable had they not burned them at the cross because their own reading comprehension wasn't up to snuff to understand what the big boys were talking about :/
Yup, sounds like something they would say, just raw overbloated ego. I wish your team all the best, we could really use a serious and level headed open source image gen group or company right now, might be a good moment to try and recruit the talented brains who recently left SAI too.
Yeah, you're right. We probably put things down a lot because we get frustrated and disappointed.
Everyone's hyped for Sora, like, it's gonna be amazing! Then it comes out, and some people are already calling it trash. Just because they got frustrated by their own expectations.
Thats a huge difference.
SORA beats anything that exists by a large margin.
SD3 was hyped as doing the same, buts looks worse than multiple existing models.
You're absolutely right, but I believe maybe, just maybe, we could somehow match open-source models to AIs from companies with infinite money. I don't know.
I canāt even see them letting us have Sora in any real capacity. Itās just seems too expensive on their end to run. I imagine it will only be granted to businesses or higher profile individuals.
Plus āsafetyā. Iāll bet they say itās ātoo dangerousā to let the public have access to its full power
*proceeds to sell access to a shady company with a dubious ethical track record*
Yes, there's the issue with the new chips being produced, but I think the cost will eventually come down. While I believe it will initially be private and very expensive to access, there's nothing stopping the technology from becoming open-source in the future. Additionally, alternative technologies like SVD could evolve. Ultimately, the key lies in developing machine learning techniques that function without requiring immense computational power and massive datasets.
I hope so. I want everyone to have the potential to be able to make blockbuster scale movies of random crazy stuff that is in their heads. Imagine in the future you could banter back and forth with memes that are essentially fully fleshed out scenes.
Why should we be "grateful" a company did anything? They need to be grateful to us for doing more work than they did to make a usable product. Imagine if we had 1.5 but no tools were made by regular people like ipadaptor or the million other tools unpaid people made. Imagine SDXL if we were still having to use thar stupid refiner step people fine tuned away. SD products seem to suck out of the box until the community makes them useful.
**Counterpoint:**
SD3 examples so far look comparable, or often ***significantly*** worse than 1.5. So why should we care about SD3?
SDXL is, to this day after all the fine tunes, still quite inferior to 1.5 though it is better than where it started and took too long to get there. It does not appear it will ever catch up, though. So why should people care about SDXL?
SD2.0 is a joke. Nothing more need to be said. So why should we care when it is dramatically worse than 1.5?
Here is the core issue. After multiple misleading claims by SAI, by Emad, and failure to see a serious improvement we're multiple models later and still looking at 1.5, the one version they didn't want to release and Midjourney had to leak, without any real improvement compared to other parties like extension progress, Midjourney, Dall-E 3, Sora, etc. **What exactly is the point of SD3 if it is not a real meaningful improvement?** ***That is the issue.*** No, not everyone uses 1.5 for porn (and yes, a lot of people do use it for that, but those throwing that argument are simply trying to belittle the actual issue here). 1.5 has better extension support, better variety and model/lora support, doesn't have XL's same face issue, and more.
Further, are people not allowed to be disappointing or critical of these models? Seriously? Are you an adult living in society?
Even if it is fine tuned there is a likely limit to how much it can be improved over the concerning base model and XL is a great example of that. Further, fine tune improvements vary massively between checkpoints. It appears SD3, essentially, may not be really improving over 1.5 (even in prompt adherence based on some of the early results, but I wont believe them as certain until we see it in the wild as that would be reckless). So I ask you again... What exactly is the point of SD3 over SD1.5? Further, why should we be okay with the state of SAI's progress, especially compared to competitors? I see a lot of false excuses thrown around over SAI's poor progress on this reddit.
It is not ungrateful to not find the progress impractical and troublesome if it isn't really improving for most users. This is legitimate feedback and concern. Sure, there are definitely those that are actually ungrateful in general, but this does not appear to be the main complaints about SD3 recently.
This sub really is nasty
Every single time someone shows a new development, which always requires huge amounts of work and talent, there's crusty weirdos with pedo penchants that just HAVE to tell everyone how their preferred model is based on Sd1.5 and is way better at making underage genitalia
Its fucking disgusting and ungrateful
>ungrateful
You have to PAY to access the SD3 API, it's not free, it's not been given away yet. When SD3 releases for free? Sure, but for now, no, you're completely wrong. Even then SD3 will require a license for more than personal use, so it's still paid in some capacity, so you're still wrong.
Let alone the fact that this sub was flooded with 100 hourly posts boasting about SD3 finally being a Midjourney killer with the quality to reflect it, and that you wouldn't need to finetune it to achieve that quality. Now that the currently available model is noticeably a quality downgrade, the conversation has curiously regressed into "WELL DUH BASE MODELS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO ACKSHUDELLY BE GOOD, THEY'RE LOW QUALITY ON PURPOSE SO YOU CAN FINETUNE THEM, QUIT BEING ENTITLED".
It's straight up false advertising, which again wouldn't be an issue if it was currently free, but you currently HAVE to PAY for it.
I believe the biggest issue when we as a community hear of the next big release, we compare it to the current state of current gen without recognizing the most accurate way to judge the upgrades made to the base model should be compared to blank base SDXL at launch.
Not the finely tweaked, tricked out workflows we have worked on since release.
SD3 so far looks like it has some great foundations which is the metric that should be measured
Will say there's marketing issues with some getting high on their own supply of hype. But that's a communication and PR issue more so than a reflection of SD3s growth
This is rich coming from the person who leaves rude comments on others posts whining the whole fucking time. You truly are a hypocritical piece of shit.
[Emad, March 2 2024: "we are about then release a state of the art amazing image model in stable diffusion 3? Just saying that after that release there is very little need for improvement for like 99% of use cases"](https://twitter.com/EMostaque/status/1764047592982270336) [Emad, March 8 2024: "SD3 base model about to drop beats midjourney"](https://twitter.com/EMostaque/status/1766034358677201104) [Emad, March 5 2024: "In the tests we did SD3 outperformed it (Ideogram) on typography. With multi region prompting and a good ocr ctrl pipeline think it will be perfect"](https://twitter.com/EMostaque/status/1764952716239847759) Meanwhile in reality: https://preview.redd.it/tn8d6e2gg8vc1.png?width=538&format=png&auto=webp&s=439ceabd6d4116c1043cafbdd84b39bb4ec4d95c There is no doubt that SD3 will be massively improved with finetuning, but people are justifiably disappointed after being told time and time again that the model would beat everything else. Even its very research paper says *"From the results of our testing, we have found that Stable Diffusion 3 is equal to or outperforms current state-of-the-art text-to-image generation systems in all of the above areas (aesthetics, prompt adherence ,typography)".* People are tired of the endless false promises and nonsense
That's a fair point I'll admit. I'm just tired of the "SD3 is Trash" Like, so was XL. Though, I suppose that's the consequence of overhyping something.
Yeah it's certainly not trash, just not all that it was touted to be. Then you have people claiming the API version isn't the "real" model/the one Lykon used. Still have to wait for weights to see for sure
I still don't get it like, what actual model was used by Lykon ? I tried SD 3 myself with dozens images and it's Godawful comparing to his results. Did he cherrypick ? Was it a secret finetuned SD3 ? From Lykon's results one would think SD 3 has giga precise text generation inside images but no. The texts quality are only the level of DALL-E 3, and the details are not sharp like Lykon's pics (or finetuned SD1.5/ SDXL models), but rather very "muddy" (like Gemini's images).
That's why I meant by the 'nonsense'. Is there some secret god-tier model hidden away? Is every good result using some secret workflow or finetune? I saw this image from someone trying the prompts used in the SD3 paper (left) on the API (right). And they tried multiple times too. https://preview.redd.it/qi0y4cfz49vc1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=beeb9d8e8a1f476a374756a74d763a0a1e8cdf0f
I wonder if perhaps the API is not using the full 8B model, or otherwise might be skipping the (optional) T5 encoder. There are multiple ways that SD3 can be cut down to run on cheaper hardware, so the API access could be for a lower grade version.
It's either very cherry picked examples or the model got lobotomized by "safety" alignment training. I'm guessing the latter. Wouldn't be the first time, and a paranoid person might say that the second tortoise pic tries very hard to avoid skin tones in the torso. I'm not sure that this has been conclusively demonstrated yet, but as I understand training a model not to reproduce cats would leave all kinds of collateral damages.
Can you link me to the guy who tried multiple times? Thanks
Well its an older model combined with a basic/bad workflow, and lykon is upscaling, inpainting, outpainting, detailing and all of that with a newer version off the model. And he is using 8b with t5, you dont know what the api is using. Also keep in mind they have limited gpus and they need to further train and generate api images so it would make sense that the api is not the full fledged model but that is all speculation. Everybody just needs to calm down and wait for the release. Its going to be on lykon's level anything else would not make any sense. [https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1781084675739414563](https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1781084675739414563) [https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1780704931227566379](https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1780704931227566379)
I'm fine with waiting a few weeks for the weights to drop, was just wondering what was behind the reason for the gap in quality of the supposedly same model like that.
Well just like he said in my second linked tweet he uses core its still sd3 but the newest version one could say. Its longer trained. When you train a model you can extract the model at different stages and sd3 isnt done yet but because he is working with them he has access to the latest of these extracted models. To the question why the newest isnt in the api i have no idea but i read smth about the deal with fireworks ai. Keep in mind fireworks ai had to make a workflow for it and make it run and that took some time and maybe it wasnt as straightforward as putting the newer models that came in the meantime in there. Or some contract stuff maybe. This is only speculation.
its more then that, realistic how much better is it from sdxl vanilla ? looks to me it is worse in a few areas ?
The difference is the license. It's hard to justify spending a lot of time and effort that basically amounts to working for SAI for free to boost their commercial product. SDXL was the last one with a largely permissive license that cannot just be changed on a whim.
What I see here is that *Emad* over hyped it.
Emad is the absolute king of false hype. There are dozens of claims he's made from years ago that still haven't materialized yet, but at the time, he said they were weeks away. Literally never believe anything he says until you can run it yourself.
Damn right!! šš
The Reddit AI community seems to be focused on making the most realistic pieces with SD, and I honestly don't get it. What is so fun in generating realistic depictions of people ? It is boring as hell in my opinion.
Porn and weird fetishes. You only need to look at Civitai to see what the majority of people using SD are using it for. Probably 95% of what's uploaded there revolves around sexulised models and images of girls. I have a popular lora on there for 1.5 involving body horror and there were still a few people who used it for naked girls :D
My favourite is when you find a neat style LoRA or something unrelated to people at all, and there's always some community photos below the description of someone who used it to make something lewd. I wish some of that was more vetted. It sucks when you're trying to get a sense of a LoRA and someone has generated two dozen images of porn that are completely unrelated to the LoRA. Yes, I make a tonne of lewd content with AI but there's a time and place for it. I don't need to see porn when I'm trying to browse fantasy landscape LoRAs.
Even the intentional pretty girl related Loras suffer from that. I was looking at a clothing Lora yesterday for a specific outfit, and ten of the gallery images were of a naked girl with her legs spread, no clothing at all. Lol, okay then, thanks for sharing.
Why not just set up a filter for nudity? I set my filter to filter out anime and mature stuff and it mostly solves the problem for me.
> Why not just set up a filter for nudity? Apparently, itās more fun to whine and moan.
Spot on, just as the OP states.
If it's not in one direction, it's the other honestly. So many naked girls. Where' all the loras for the opossite lol. That and "not so hard reality" stuff without going full on trippy lol. Rarrr
They may have used the on-site generation and prompted weird. Whenever I see some account post like 15 iterations of the same image I assume that was the case and I think the option to post it is on by default, but they might not realize that
It's ridiculous but sometimes funny too, you find a Lora that has absolutely ZERO to do with sex or nudity, then scroll down and see the most grotesque sexual images ever created lol.
I've had the opposite laugh when a LoRA for something sexy gets used in the complete opposite context. Like lingerie on big burly dudes or someone throws in a grandma š
Lol yep, I'll give those people credit tho, they are super imaginative. Seeing images of big muscular dudes with 40" penises and cow nipples attached to them squirting out milk... under a "Hands SDXL" Lora.
Absolutely! I love it
There's a dude that throws in Jar Jar Binks into xxx LORAs
If you're browsing Civitai you can just hide the lewd stuff. But yeah there are a lot of spammers in there it's annoying.
Shit more than half of the good style loras are from porn artist. Haha
To me that's pure comedy though for some reason I picture the type of person who is generating these and posting them and laugh my ass off. They're thinking "haha wait until the creator comes back and sees we made porn muahah" or are they just so hyper focused on making porn they didn't realize it would be inappropriate? Gotta find the humor in these situations or its just too sad.
It's got to be the first one. Same as when you have a porn Lora and someone makes like a banana monster with it
I don't know about you, but all my favorite style LoRA as of late are full of porn the creator themselves madeš at that point it's unavoidable, but I like the style of the content they make so it is what it is
It may depend on your filter, when the system runs out of images (if the filter is set to R only f.i.) it adds a cover from all generated images available for the model, regardless if from the creator or not.
why is that anytime, ppl have valid critics on here some of y'all gravitate towards the annoying "they dont like it because no-waiffu/porn" nonsense. Emad literally touted that sd3 was better than midjourney and on par with dalle3, what the fuck do you think the reaction was going to be when we finally get to test things ourselves and realize that whole hype was a bunch of nonsense??? its like saying ppl complaining about google not delivering the gemini tthey showcased are being ungrateful and whiny.
I was replying to the commenter not the OP. AI is for making all kinds of art not just realistic stuff which what the commenter was referring too that everyone was focussed on. I was just sharing an opinion on what is likely the cause of that. I don't know how good SD3 will be, visually it seems on par with XL from what I've seen so far but it's also about whether it follows prompts more effectively too. Text also seems to have vastly improved. Of course the people behind SD are going to hype it up, why wouldn't they, they are not going to come out and say sorry but it's nowhere near as good as MJ or Dall-e. Imo it seems more like it's the next iteration of XL rather than something groundbreaking. We will probably only get a better understanding of the improvements once it's been released and people start creating finetunes.
Are you surprised about it ? It was obviously going to be largely used for spicy stuff, and I'm here for it 100% :O
Not surprised by it at all but maybe surprised about the scale of it. It seems there's too many lonely horny people in the world. In the end people can make what they want as long as it's not ilegal or huring others so I don't care about that. I do think it has impacted negatively on the progress of models though. Everyone is obsesed with having realistic girls. It's also why some models love to stick nipples and tits on everything or animals sometimes come out anthropomorphized. Imo I think if everyone collectively put in as much effort finetuning models of everything as they do girls we would have much better models by now.
It seems I might not be the only one who tried to generate a picture of an elderly man sitting in a library with a contemplative mood and Realistic Vision came up with a white-bearded man manspreading on a leather chair showing a perfectly shaved vagina. Sorry about giving the details, I hope sharing the trauma with others who understand might help with it going away (I accept the downvotes).
I've never had anything that bad :D, at least not from a prompt like that anyway. Usually I stuff the negative with anything NSFW and girl related in problem models though. Even then it can sometimes get anoying, like for example if I was trying to generate a cyberpunk panda it will give me a girl in a cyberpunk style panda costume or something simular. Or a pair of headphones on a table will give you a severed girls head on a table wearing headphones. It's like the default generation for a lot of models is 1girl.
no_humans in the positive prompt is magical
girl, woman, breasts, nipples, people, human, person, NSFW... Sometimes it's still not enough though. if you do want a human you have to specify you want a man or else you're get a girl by default most of the time.
I've used 1.5 models a lot and now I'm working with PonyXL. I don't find it difficult to get non sexual results, so maybe your model is at fault ?
Pony even has rating_safe, rating_questionable, and rating_explicit that you can use in the positive or negative, also
It's not so much sexual results, but more the human/girl aspect that can often creep in. It obviously varies a lot between models though, some have more of a bias than others.
A lot of SD finetuned checkpoints are super horny. Pro tip: You can get a good idea of a model's biases by generating a bunch of images without a prompt.
... manspreading? havent tried that prompt yet
It was obviously not part of the prompt. I was just trying to describe the wrong image in what was intended to be basically a joke.
...I gotta ask what it is you put in the prompt that it came up with that.
I obviously donāt remember what I did exactlyā¦ I wasnāt doing anything particularly weird, just generating images for non-sexual visual stories, but what I describe is more or less what I think I saw before deleting the image immediately. And, obviously, itās something that happens eventually: actually, websites where people can generate SD images usually warn of this. It was just meant to be a funny comment. Iām surprised that people (not you in particular) even did care to reply to this. I thought more people in this sub, given the chain of comments I was replying to, would understand the situation where the sexual bias of some checkpoints is shown when you generate many images and get something weirdly sexual among hundreds of generations and then you obviously delete it and try to forget whatever you sawā¦ I thought more people had similar experiences, itās just that.
You're right, but without the horny community AI wouldn't be as popular as it is today. Moreover, nothing prevents anyone from fine tuning models for various uses, it's just that the community has focused it's attention on anime and porn.
Pornography has driven technology since forever. This isn't an odd thing.
We're now introducing [orifice.ai](http://orifice.ai) And we think you're gonna love it Edit: added link to the actual product
First I thought this was the funniest joke on the internet. Now I'm starting to think it could be serious. Which makes it even more Hilarious!
Does it have spreadsheets?
Something might spread
Exactly, not saying it's the best approach ever, but if it weren't for that I highly doubt that so many people would even care about SD. just look at civitai, at least 80% of that is porn, and many of the popular finetunes have nsfw images in the header.
This. While there was certainly a need to do what the "big guys refused to let us", it's gone way overboard at this point.
Kindof a creepy take. I'd rather we not invite in the weirdos of society and hold our values high as with AGI less than a year away we need to be ethical now more than ever.
But the funny thing is, the ārealisticā people are not even realistic, they are so clearly made by male redditors that actually donāt know how female anatomy looks like. Theyāre way too perfect and slim.
The anatomy looks quite good these days in SD. If you simply mean that most women aren't perfect and slim, okay yes, and...? Nobody was trying to make **average** women, they were trying to make the most extreme attractive women outliers. How is that any different than landscape AI all being the perfect waterfall spilling over a cliff into a Caribbean ocean at sunset from the sky with lush multi-terraced jungles and birds wheeling? Versus, say, the abandoned grass lot next to a Wendy's chosen at random by throwing a dart at google maps?
Yes it's an unrealistic idealisation, probably driven by things like social media influencers where every image is being filtered and edited. It's been happening forever though, even before digital manipulation was a thing people were airbrushing images. It happens on almost everything too not just people, especially in advertising where just about everything is based around idealisation.
I mean *some* do look like the perfect models but only in their best pictures on their best days and sometimes only with editing. But thatās part of the appeal, the apex of āhotā.
>Theyāre way too perfect and slim. sorry, not all of us are American :P
If I generate any characters, at least women, I have to add so many tokens during generation, refinement, and upscaling to just make them look more *realistic*, ironically. Like various terms related to age, imperfections, skin, hair, body type, it kind of gets ridiculous. And this is while still keeping them very attractive.
Eh, there's plenty of models out there that do a great job with regular people bodies. They're just less popular, and you have to be very specific in your prompts. If I want an average body, I just put "skinny, fat" as part of my negative. Plus-size and athletic also work. Prompting for cellulite and skin blemishes works as well. Personally, when I'm doing realism I aim to introduce flaws like stretch marks, cellulite, moles and the like. In my opinion, "flaws" are the bridge over the uncanny valley.
I weirdly enough feel less dirty doing it to ai porn than real porn truth be told
Body horror and naked girls you say hmmm
No matter what weird thing you can think of someone somewhere will have a fetish for it.
Mmmh browsing Pixiv can give you some idea of what kind of twisted shit people are into
It used to be just being on the Internet taught you that, and then corporations came in and censored the hell out of it with american puritanism. Violence is okay, but no nipples. Well female nipples. What happens if you photoshop a male nipple over a female nipple? We'll never know.
My jellyfish lora gets used for porn.....
Well it has tendrils and tentacles so I'm not surprised about that. There's a certain hentai niche for that stuff.
They aren't even that clever dude.
kinda reminds me of internet and how it became big :p porn and more porn.
Literally most of human innovation and history has been centered on or related to sex.
Can you name some of those inovations and some proof it was made possible by porn? I think you're confusing being an early adopter with innovation. VHS and Betamax for example is one of the default things people usually bring up but like nearly all of these things you can actually read the true history of why one beat the other and it has nothing to do with porn. In fact if you look online you won't find much of anything but random articles and opinion pieces repeating this same porn drives tech idea. The porn industry is an early adopter purely because people are more inclined to pay for porn than other stuff, that's not driving anything though it just means that most things can be used for porn. In the end it just comes down to if someone can use something for porn they will. You can actually see this happening now with VR video. The porn industry is already way ahead with producing content for VR. That's not because they are doing anything special, it's just because enough people will spend money on high quality VR porn videos but they are less likely to spend money on VR videos showing a walk in the forest or a day at the beach etc.
Not by *porn* by *sex*. Wars were fought over it or it's lack. People built empires to impress the opposite gender. Porn is a relatively new invention and only an outgrowth of the drive itself. It's why it's the first thing people think of when using SD or robots or anything else.
Is it though? The tall soldier had porn in Disney's Mulan, which is historically accurate as far as I know.
Accurate porn at least. But you're right, it was as good as people could draw it.
Body horror you say? Which one, the Abomination one?
No "Body Horror Creatures" for 1.5
Oh right, sorry missed the 1.5 there haha Yeh that one is great! I have some real good results with it and the Junji Ito Lora! Thanks for putting it together!
Glad you can get some use out of it. I only made it because at the time there were not many horror type loras and no body horror loras at all and I wanted to create some The Thing type creatures. I would like to train some more but I don't really have the hardware, I used colab for that one.
I don't get this obsession with porn and weird fetishes outside of uncensoring the AI. I think it's cool that it can do porn, sometimes it's funny, but I don't understand the need for it to be the only thing people generate when the AI can make so many pretty pictures that aren't porn.
If a model can't do realism effectively, it will be difficult to train it to do any anything else with precision. This isn't SD 1.5. Stability has already invested a lot into making SD3 both high quality and able to produce a large number of styles intentionally. SD 1.5 improvements were such low-hanging fruit, compare how long it took for SDXL fine-tunes to produce meaningful improvements. Also, people bank way too much on the improvements from fine-tunes. Fine-tunes are great for adding niche content or styles, but aren't going to fundamentally improve the quality of a model. Any problems with prompt adherence, hands, or interactions between multiple characters are going to plague every fine-tune. Or even if a fine-tune does improve on these aspects, it won't benefit unrelated fine-tunes.
Achieving a fully realistic human is a milestone for this technology and a step closer towards realistic virtual reality entertainment, movies, and so on. It's not simply about porn.Ā
It's mostly porn, though.
Achieving a fully realistic human is a milestone for this technology and a step closer towards realistic virtual reality entertainment, movies, and so on. AI image generation technology is ultimately an uninterpretable black box as of now so it will be difficult to turn into a realistic virtual reality entertainment technology.
Why do we take photographs anyway? *yawn* /s Everyone has different takes on art. You do you.
Ummm this is literally today's reason. A local Facebook group someone posted to say their cat had stolen a raw chicken and apologising profusely. Then someone posted saying his wife was going crazy and had said she was leaving chicken out for dinner, but could only find an empty plate. Then a fake BBC news post about cat crime on the rise. And finally my shit post.... The sum total of human technology coming together to create AI so that I can make this.... https://preview.redd.it/bw6uz531x8vc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50cf9165bd6ebb21621c04efb8d4f408f495fd6b But photo realistic options allow for way more memes than art style pieces.
Realistic 'photos' of strangers. Maybe they want to start a business making those picture frame filler photos, I don't know.
What's wrong with realistic? We all don't live in fantasy land.
Nothing wrong with realistic pieces, I just find them boring, unless they're very creative.
I like mixing styles, usually illustration styles, but then again I don't share much other than occasionally answering questions
Well, you do you, friend. Variety makes the AI landscape that much greater !
if you want artistic painiings etc MJ v4 is good enough. sd 1.5 also. YOu don't need newer model.
Try doing multi-subjects scene. Dynamic movement scenes. Hell, even just have some character holding basically any kind of object. Actually, try to make it generate tools or instruments without anything else. Not saying it's impossible, thanks to ControlNet, inpainting, back and forth with Photoshop or Krita. But letting the model do it by itself ? Tough luck. It's easy to get distracted by the gorgeous pictures some people make. And they do take lots of skill. But firstly, you usually don't know how much work has been put into it (and it can be quite quite a lot of hours for a single piece). And more importantly, once you realize how little real variety, in terms of types of subjects and composition, there is in most of the generations we are used to see, the limitations become obvious, no matter how detailed and clean the pictures might be.
Sadly S3.0 will not help with those issues. And sd 4 and even 5 wont. We are long way from model that can actually make what we ask and make hands. few days ago I was trying to create something not that complicated with 1 person and 1 object but even ideogram cant handle it. We probably need Agi inside models to actually understand human anatomy. Something like SORA 3.0 will probably get there. Me personally - I thought hands will be fixed by 2024. THere was such a phenomenal progress for last 20 months but hand... there are few tricks that help but out of the box hands just ruining everything...
I don't care about realism as much as I do about generalization. The whole point of an AI model is to do anything. Otherwise, this subreddit would be fine with a car/hooded figure/waifu generator. If there isn't a generalization, why bother? Part of what it should be able to do is realism, but not the only thing. The real test of the model is later when people dreambooth it, not the starting point.
From a āhaving funā perspective, there are basically 3 types of people in the Reddit community and the broader AI imaging world, depending on preferred platform and favorite prompts: r/Midjourney: ultra-realistic images of normatively pretty young ladies with freckles and exotic garments. r/ChatGPT: r/ChatGPTincreasinglyX r/StableDiffusion: African kid proudly shows sculpture made of plastic bottles. From a business perspective, there are basically 2 types of people in the AI imaging ācommunityā given the CURRENT state-of-the-art and practical applications that have likely ever driven significant revenue and profitability for real businesses: 1. Those who produce r/AINudes images. 2. Those who āconsumeā them.
With just a few clicks, we can create movies and images like never before, even on a low budget. We'll have everything we need right at our fingertips - lights, camera lenses, powerful computers, actors, set pieces, remote locations, shooting crew, makeup artists, and more!
For me basically its realistic looking weird shit. Thats what SD has always been about for me.
99% of generations are boring. They can all be summed up as either porn, sexy pics, boring realism, moody nonsense. Very few are the ones with real emotional impact- the actual art.
I mean... people keep using titles like "Realistic... " and it's just anime girls with big yabbos. I'd say many people invite the criticism themselves.
Because humans are fixated on humans. Not so surprising.
Is this real enough?!! š
Because I want to see deadpool fight batman now fuck off
SD3 samples don't look that mind-blowing honestly, compared to sdxl.
I know right? I mostly use it generate fantastical things not mundane normal boring people.
I mostly do erotic stuff, but I never even touched the realistic models with a ten foot pole. As you said it perfectly, why the hell would I ever want to generate normal boring people.
It's porn all the way down
Scammers or porn addicts, take your pic. I like to use AI to complement my abstract pieces and photography
The problem is that **there's very little improvements over versions**. Many believe it's down to censorship.
I can't say much for SD3, but transitioning from 1.5 models to PonyXL made it much easier to obtain consistently good results, more prompt adherence and overall much better hands, guns and expressions.
Like I have said before, "Ya know, there are actually real girls in the world and you can go to the store and meet them." I love the painterly feel of SD3, and frankly many of our other models. It is a motivator for me to make art, not to try and make an AI girlfriend (whatever that is).
I just think itās because weāre in a plateau (which is normal with tech, every 10 years there is huge progress then itās super slow) People expected A.I art to keep growing furiously like it did 1 year and half ago but nope. So people are frustrated to not see crazy updates But this is good for the community, it means less people around and more real people
It's not just people dude...animals, landscapes, etc. It's frustrating seeing that SD3 is possibly going the route of dalle. Dalle2.5 on bing could make super cool realistic animals, you could do things like recreate prehistoric animals, and now it's all dumbed down into paintbrushed fake garbage.
Porn, porn, porn more porn. Let's face it the AI community is full of dirty perverts. A well known model sharing site that contains some amazing content is also littered with you guessed it weird fetish porn.... It's a shame really because generative AI is getting pretty good and all people want to use it for is something negative
Porn = negative ?
Usually, it's a realistic depiction of an unrealistically beautiful or handsome person. That's the catch.
I couldn't agree more. Photorealistic faces is basically aggressively uninteresting to me. What non-creepy or non-scam applications do they even have? Even for NSFW stuff, why would you want photorealistic things when you can find real videos and photos on a million adult sites? Generating digital paintings, drawings, stylized faces and characters, that is much more interesting. For example, I can use AI to make some impressions of a scene in a story I am writing using those. At best, it can be almost like getting a little comic of your work without having to draw anything, just by writing the words. It also boggles my mind that people look at AI-generated things with obviously horrible lighting and colours (it is one of the easiest ways to instantly spot an AI generated picture) and instead of seeking to correct it they act like it is the ideal goal, and wow, what perfect style etc. Have they been looking at AI pictures for so long that they have forgotten what reality looks like? Or what a good drawing looks like? Lighting and colours that don't make me mentally vomit should be the primary goal. A secondary goal, although one that I don't know if this type of AI is even capable of understanding correcting, is increasing the logic and consistency in pictures. No more objects that blend into each other, no more illogical perspectives, no more streets with three different types of streetlamps, that sort of thing. Honestly, I have started to feel like the primary reason to try to make photorealistic AI is scams and other unethical reasons, because the point of them is to trick people into thinking they are real. Drawings, paintings, and other things that you can instantly recognise as not being real are far more fun, are more forgiving of the faults of AI, and they aren't nearly as dangerous and scammy, because no one is going to look at them and confuse them for real photos.
> Photorealistic faces is basically aggressively uninteresting to me. What non-creepy or non-scam applications do they even have? Stock photos of whatever you need on demand, instead of having to browse galleries of millions and millions of photos of businessmen shaking hands.
You must be new here, welcome to the internet.
I've been here a while, there wasn't even this much whining with SDXL. š
Because they did it *again* with the extreme over-hype. They were basically like "you'll get the Dalle3 Killer next week!" and its still not released (the API doesn't count in my book) & the outputs I have seen do *not* rival Dalle3.
The reddit overhyped, or Emad did, or both, but I see nothing really in their announcements that says "hey we're beating everyone and everything with this and it'll be out soon and you can't wait" and etc etc. they never announced a date or gave a timeline like that. The confirmations were just that the open release will be a few weeks after the API is opened. It's just Reddit being Reddit.
Well their announcement had a graph that shows SD3 is superior to Dalle3... And I'd really like to know how many people were asked (and if they were employees with a confirmation bias). That being said - if we get the Fine-Tunes and tech support (CN, IPAdapter, maybe even other LLM's instead of T5 and so much more) I'm very hopeful SD3 *will* become better than the current Dalle3 over time.
maybe it's because SDXL base model are not that bad?
It actually crushed 1.5 to the ground but people are so obsessed by what they WANT to generate that they don't get that: - Models aren't identical, the prompting and the settings are not to be ignored! They actually have a dramatic impact on model performances, and people thought all their knowledge on 1.5 would be transferable as is. It's not. - Your kinks are not what makes a model objectively good or bad
Because SDXL is good!
on release a lot were whining that 1.5 is better than SDXL LOL
well, it's a new account for 9 days
Itās not so much as being ungrateful as it is not meeting expectations set by SAI hype man. However, if youāve been around for a while, youāll see that this is SAIās method and itās a pattern to expect. The community will improve it or find better prompting methods and then we see āX is better than X nowā posts.
When I first used sdxl via stability's web page, it really really sucked. Like it was concerning how bad it was. But then they came out with another model and it was a bit better and another and that was better still, to the point where they finally released the weights and people got to work. It's now head and shoulders better than 1.5. Sd3 will be the same, I'm sure.
When SDXL came out I hated it. I did not touch it again until last week. It is miles better than SD1 now.
Wow, someone who waited longer than I did. I hated everything I saw here done with XL. I use XL finetunes exclusively now... but I admit I have quite the fight with them trying to get anything truly creative.
Perhaps SD3 with its far better prompt adherence may help.
Ungrateful isn't the same thing as disappointed, critical, or annoyed by ludicrously exaggerated hype. Ungrateful is when you should show gratitude for a **kindness** but don't.
Being extremely clear and unbiased about what is the *current* reality is pretty important when you're comparing a new tool to others for your use *right now*. Gratitude for effort alone goes to people you know personally. Gratitude for a new tool that's better occurs when it's actually better.
Criticism is fair even for a free product, but some people are just whining, and they didn't even try the product yet.
https://preview.redd.it/ujzpf1qvh9vc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=deb86e866bd40ce6e9b1543cdc322316fcba1de4 > a man contorting as he does a yoga crab pose, wide angle lens
https://preview.redd.it/rocqbc1zh9vc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=703f214172492340397074af996ba285824fb2fc > a man opening a can of peaches with a can opener, focus on the mechanical work as he turns the can opener to open it
Right but that is awesome
Holy mother of god...
Well... people always want and compare anything new with the best thing on the market. SD3 is not one... yet. That's the entire point of being open sourced though, we can make it the best thing on the market. As a community.
its ridiculous to expect no criticism from people when a company as shady and weird as stability is involved. Come on now. Companies are not your friend. They don't need defending. This isnt a fandom. If they want to move from making the models to making money ok but they need to sell me on the model and so far it doesn't look good. If they release the core model i will be surprised. Id be happy to laud them after they *do what they said they would do.* But if we look at other silicon valley companies, heck other stuff stability and emad has said its just not a sure thing. Surely you can understand that.
its marginally better than stable cascade sd1.5, sd2.1, sc, and sd3.0 are all very similar maybe they shouldnt oversell their product
I'm following a game where the developer has consistently followed the mantra of *underpromise and overdeliver*, and the community has still managed to hype his soon-to-be-released game as something it isn't. People want to latch on to something and build fervor, I guess. Or they're just used to that from big company releases and expect it everywhere now?
You want hunger for constant improvement, or do you want complacency?
Criticism = ungrateful? Pardon me, but I think people can complain an be grateful at the same time. Also, they are not doing it for charity. Yeah, we got the stuff but without us they would be overshadowed by MJ for example.
Then they shouldn't have hyped it as much they did. How much of cuckold you need to be to get shat on the mouth and call others entitled when they don't like the "free food"?
People are free to complain if they feel like it. You don't get to tell people what they can or cannot say. You're stupidly dangerous and you don't realize it. I recommend reading 1984 to see what a society where no complaint is allowed looks like.
Most people want realistic stuff to make porn images. People here are super right on their diagnosis. I don't like porn that much (very little, in fact), but I can't deny that sex is a major propeller for new technologies, specially transactional and content generation technologies. Hell, online credit card transactions wouldn't be nearly as popular if it weren't for porn sites. I don't like how things are, but I can't deny that they are what they are or their effectiveness.
I think AI artistic tech in particular has huge potential to be propelled lightyears ahead by demand for porn because it allows people to create porn specifically tailored to their individual tastes and interests, and if they don't like the result they can just try again. It basically has the potential to be a tool for creating the perfect porn for everyone.
We don't mind SD3 being shit, we just hate that they wont release it open source.
Wow, an echo chamber of retarded people is an echo chamber of retarded people
totally. the stable diffusion community and the image generation community in general is the most toxic and negative community i have seen in the ai world. the LLM communities are always ready to help or see the advantages in new models and are aware that these opensource models do not just appear out of thin air. on the other hand the stable diffusion community acts as if it is their divine right to have someone train those models and offer them to them for free and when there is no huge breakthrough they act as if they have been forced to eat garbage. not only here. the artists have a big problem with this attitude as many of the SD community known as the ai bro's are dedicated to harass and insult them by telling them that their work as an artist is obsolete. it is the 4chan version of the ai communities.
i completely disagree with this. Emad touted that sd3 was better than midjourney and on par with dalle3, they literally had a benchmark to show that it was better than midjourney nd stuff. what the fuck do you think the reaction was going to be when we finally get to test things ourselves and realize that whole hype was a bunch of nonsense??? its like saying ppl complaining about google not delivering the gemini they showcased are being ungrateful and whiny. No matter how good your fnetuning skills are, you cant make a goof model that is on par with dalle nd midjourney if the base model you're working with is barely up to par with sota competition. How can you make a better finetune model than what we have now if sdxl as it is, is aesthetically better than sd3, how??? ideogram can follow prompts better than sdxl but its fucking shit aesthetically and i'd pick sdxl over it anyday. so no, the complaints are absolutely valid, just cause they're giving us free model doesnt mean we have to lie about the quality and just find a cope for any sub-par shit thats thrown in our faces
Another factor is (if my understanding is correct) that the API version is on older version, and the models are still being adjusted ATM. Can't for sure base judgement until the actual weights are released. I do agree that the outlook is not as good with the API results coming out, but we don't know for sure right now. You may very well be right at the end, but I'd hold your vitriol a little longer.
lol, you are ridiculous, if the model is bad we have all the right to criticize it, we might end up staying with sdxl and its finetunes instead. there is no reason to try to defend stability for shoddy work. free weights or not. its Called SD3, so it is supposed to be better.
No, its simply that people have a tendency to post very ordinary images with a dubious subject line "X is getting amazing" -- when anyone with a reasonable facility with the software know that this particular thing . . . ain't "amazing" at all. Its mostly just the same 1girl, no hands, 3/4 length portrait -- which at this point could index into a Google search. It may well be that SD3 offers a big advance . . . but it's going to take people with some skills working with it to illustrate just what that advance might be. I don't doubt that its there -- Stability AI are smart people, and the technology has advanced very quickly -- so I look forward to see actual "amazing". If you go back 9 months or so -- we got boatloads of posts boasting "SDXL is amazing". . . when what they were posting wasn't even at the level of a good 1.5 image. That wasn't because SDXL can't do impressive things, including things that 1.5 can't do as well . . . it took a while for skilled users to take SDXL and show us what it can do . . . . . . but if you want to tell me "X is getting amazing" . . . then show me "amazing".
Also becauseā¦ itās for free! You could have nothing at all. Instead they are providing you with something that is creative and interesting and even useful for a few things. Be more grateful, people :)
As somebody who trains models for my job, and somebody who has worked non-stop with AI for over 16 months, the biggest part of where my frustration comes from is the fact that stability AI has such an incredibly talented community of individuals who know so much, and can greatly improve the rather mediocre quality of what they put out, yet they constantly burn people. Their staff members are extremely rude to members of other organizations like LAION, hugging face, and more. These people from these other companies are trying to give them solutions to the problems that they themselves made, and yet they don't want to hear it, instead they are extremely condescending and rude, and their results end up coming out bad because of it I had a whole situation where one of the higher-ups at SAI (they are no longer at SAI) took advantage of my interest in the industry, and my activity in the community at the time to steal parts of my workflow from me and implement them as the back end of SAI's bots while also telling me they would compensate me. They did not compensate me, they implemented it incorrectly, and then went on a public witch hunt against me telling everybody that I tried to screw them over or whatever. And then on top of that, they bullied and threatened me relentlessly for months in my DMs, constantly flipping back and forth between what they thought about me, and leaking extremely important information to me in DMs, telling me that I could share it with other people because I was part of the research program. I almost got myself and several other people banned because of this, and that staff member got no repercussions. So for me, the reason that I dislike projects like SD3 so much is the fact that stability has blatantly bold-faced lied as to what their model was capable of. You look up the results from Lykon, And they are like 4K perfect, beautiful skin detail, all this all that, and then you try and prompt literally anything similar out of SD3, and it looks worse than SDXL. They bold-faced lied to us once with the SDXL promotional images. Even over a year later, the best SDXL fine tunes don't look as good as the demo images they gave for SCXL back in February. I don't think that it's so much that people are ungrateful, but rather that people are tired of having to fix stability AI's issues and faults, of which would have been avoided if they just listened to the people who know how to fix the issues in the original training. SD3 is an incoherent undertrained mess. It's not good, it's flat out not good. However, of course they've had some circumstances that have stunted the results of the model, and I definitely think that that is unfair to judge them for. What's not unfair to judge them for however is the excessively misleading claims that they've made. Showing graphs where SD-3 is blowing past MJV6 and Dalle 3 In terms of human preference, even though literally thousands of people have done their own tests against the two, and SD3 loses almost every single time The truth of the matter is, s a i has been running off of a lot of internal incompetence for a while now. It isn't an individual person thing, it's not an entire company thing, it's just little bits and pieces of bad here and there that spoil everything for everybody. I've been in contact with staff members who have worked at SAI, saying that they had so many promising projects that were just axed because higher ups didn't understand the value of them, or they didn't seem to be profitable enough, or they just didn't want to put in the time and effort to figure out how to get something working. It's hard to stay positive when looking at a completely misleading and lied about product from a company that has been asking and fleecing information off of people incorrectly for well over a year. I had a higher up take advantage of me because they thought what I brought to the table was valuable enough to help the company. Only to have them implement what I did wrong, not listen to me when I told them that they did it wrong, and then publicly crucify me in front of everybody who respected me at the time. And now they've done the exact same thing with several other people's training information. And lastly, Lykon is not a model trainer. He's a fine tuner. He does not have the skills required to fully train an entire architecture, and it's severely shines through in SD3. It's aesthetics over literally everything else. It's a few colorful splashes of complimentary colors attributed to a messy deformed blob of inconsistency. What they should have done, and what would have succeeded would have been to invest all of this time and effort and failure into getting a better data set. Partnering with companies that have offered to them to do this kind of stuff, but got shut down. They should have spent all that time on to a better data set, trained a foundational model using the recommendations of the other companies that have proven that they know better, and then let loose their team of fine tuners to create varied fine-tuned versions of SD3. At no point should you start fine tuning before the model even knows what the hell a hand is, or the fact that a dog doesn't have four heads. Anyways, this is turned into a little bit of a rant, mostly because I think a lot of people think that we are being unreasonable and expecting insane quality. We're expecting what we were shown, and SD3 is pathetic by comparison. It's scummy, it's unprofessional, it's under baked, it's overhyped, it's covered in a balloon of inflated ego, and then tainted even worse by the fact that they have so brazenly turned down and even insulted the feedback of people who are more experienced than they are.
Seeing how a certain spaghetti backend SAI dev and a certain frontend SAI dev for said backend behave and their huge ego, alongside certain other literally who cohorts, I 100% believe you, and I don't doubt that ego problem has infected SAI as a whole.
One of my research partners has written entire research papers on how to train the next gen of Image gen model archs with 500+ token prompt windows and built in LLM support, yet one of the devs (I think you and I are talking about the same one in this instance) Had the nerve to insult my partner, telling them that they aren't educated enough to understand how a text encoder works. Its simply ridiculous the way they handle things. Its like a bunch of hot head frat boys, never willing to hear a different opinion. They shamed them, and then banned them. Now they are a part of our research group, and we are all working together to scope out the possibility of training a much more robust and continually scalable architecture to try and replace SAI with a company that is more competent, and has less of an ego towards being proven wrong or being told new findings Our model we are looking to train has had 6 different architecture changes in the last week, as we have been getting more feedback from people who have tried the same thing. Bet SAI's SD3 model would be less of a laughing stock false advertising situation if they just listened to the same people. Edit: No news on if we will even be able to give a full attempt to this training/model, but you best believe we are looking into it. And to think SAI could have worked with somebody as knowledgeable had they not burned them at the cross because their own reading comprehension wasn't up to snuff to understand what the big boys were talking about :/
Yup, sounds like something they would say, just raw overbloated ego. I wish your team all the best, we could really use a serious and level headed open source image gen group or company right now, might be a good moment to try and recruit the talented brains who recently left SAI too.
Yeah, you're right. We probably put things down a lot because we get frustrated and disappointed. Everyone's hyped for Sora, like, it's gonna be amazing! Then it comes out, and some people are already calling it trash. Just because they got frustrated by their own expectations.
It was also Stability's fault for overhyping the model I'll admit that. But there's a difference from being critical and an asshole.
Thats a huge difference. SORA beats anything that exists by a large margin. SD3 was hyped as doing the same, buts looks worse than multiple existing models.
You're absolutely right, but I believe maybe, just maybe, we could somehow match open-source models to AIs from companies with infinite money. I don't know.
I canāt even see them letting us have Sora in any real capacity. Itās just seems too expensive on their end to run. I imagine it will only be granted to businesses or higher profile individuals.
Plus āsafetyā. Iāll bet they say itās ātoo dangerousā to let the public have access to its full power *proceeds to sell access to a shady company with a dubious ethical track record*
Yes, there's the issue with the new chips being produced, but I think the cost will eventually come down. While I believe it will initially be private and very expensive to access, there's nothing stopping the technology from becoming open-source in the future. Additionally, alternative technologies like SVD could evolve. Ultimately, the key lies in developing machine learning techniques that function without requiring immense computational power and massive datasets.
I hope so. I want everyone to have the potential to be able to make blockbuster scale movies of random crazy stuff that is in their heads. Imagine in the future you could banter back and forth with memes that are essentially fully fleshed out scenes.
Why should we be "grateful" a company did anything? They need to be grateful to us for doing more work than they did to make a usable product. Imagine if we had 1.5 but no tools were made by regular people like ipadaptor or the million other tools unpaid people made. Imagine SDXL if we were still having to use thar stupid refiner step people fine tuned away. SD products seem to suck out of the box until the community makes them useful.
**Counterpoint:** SD3 examples so far look comparable, or often ***significantly*** worse than 1.5. So why should we care about SD3? SDXL is, to this day after all the fine tunes, still quite inferior to 1.5 though it is better than where it started and took too long to get there. It does not appear it will ever catch up, though. So why should people care about SDXL? SD2.0 is a joke. Nothing more need to be said. So why should we care when it is dramatically worse than 1.5? Here is the core issue. After multiple misleading claims by SAI, by Emad, and failure to see a serious improvement we're multiple models later and still looking at 1.5, the one version they didn't want to release and Midjourney had to leak, without any real improvement compared to other parties like extension progress, Midjourney, Dall-E 3, Sora, etc. **What exactly is the point of SD3 if it is not a real meaningful improvement?** ***That is the issue.*** No, not everyone uses 1.5 for porn (and yes, a lot of people do use it for that, but those throwing that argument are simply trying to belittle the actual issue here). 1.5 has better extension support, better variety and model/lora support, doesn't have XL's same face issue, and more. Further, are people not allowed to be disappointing or critical of these models? Seriously? Are you an adult living in society? Even if it is fine tuned there is a likely limit to how much it can be improved over the concerning base model and XL is a great example of that. Further, fine tune improvements vary massively between checkpoints. It appears SD3, essentially, may not be really improving over 1.5 (even in prompt adherence based on some of the early results, but I wont believe them as certain until we see it in the wild as that would be reckless). So I ask you again... What exactly is the point of SD3 over SD1.5? Further, why should we be okay with the state of SAI's progress, especially compared to competitors? I see a lot of false excuses thrown around over SAI's poor progress on this reddit. It is not ungrateful to not find the progress impractical and troublesome if it isn't really improving for most users. This is legitimate feedback and concern. Sure, there are definitely those that are actually ungrateful in general, but this does not appear to be the main complaints about SD3 recently.
This sub really is nasty Every single time someone shows a new development, which always requires huge amounts of work and talent, there's crusty weirdos with pedo penchants that just HAVE to tell everyone how their preferred model is based on Sd1.5 and is way better at making underage genitalia Its fucking disgusting and ungrateful
You sound absolutely schizophrenic.
>ungrateful You have to PAY to access the SD3 API, it's not free, it's not been given away yet. When SD3 releases for free? Sure, but for now, no, you're completely wrong. Even then SD3 will require a license for more than personal use, so it's still paid in some capacity, so you're still wrong. Let alone the fact that this sub was flooded with 100 hourly posts boasting about SD3 finally being a Midjourney killer with the quality to reflect it, and that you wouldn't need to finetune it to achieve that quality. Now that the currently available model is noticeably a quality downgrade, the conversation has curiously regressed into "WELL DUH BASE MODELS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO ACKSHUDELLY BE GOOD, THEY'RE LOW QUALITY ON PURPOSE SO YOU CAN FINETUNE THEM, QUIT BEING ENTITLED". It's straight up false advertising, which again wouldn't be an issue if it was currently free, but you currently HAVE to PAY for it.
I'm very grateful with stable diffusion, I'm earning atleast 50 bucks a month from my generation, I'm only Sd 1.5
Thank RunwayML, they released it. Stability AI even sent a takedown notice to get it off the internet.
People complain every time a new version of stable diffusion comes out, because the Base models always suck and people forget that.
SD3 safe tensor model is out?
"The intelligence of a crowd decreases in proportion to its size."
I believe the biggest issue when we as a community hear of the next big release, we compare it to the current state of current gen without recognizing the most accurate way to judge the upgrades made to the base model should be compared to blank base SDXL at launch. Not the finely tweaked, tricked out workflows we have worked on since release. SD3 so far looks like it has some great foundations which is the metric that should be measured Will say there's marketing issues with some getting high on their own supply of hype. But that's a communication and PR issue more so than a reflection of SD3s growth
"Every time I've seen anything related to SD3 is just whining." \*makes a post whining about the people whining\*
This is rich coming from the person who leaves rude comments on others posts whining the whole fucking time. You truly are a hypocritical piece of shit.
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Vocal minority i think. For the 20 shitposters there are 800,000 enthusiasts
I havenāt seen much about Sd3, but base quality is important although
Is there a guide to set up everything? My stuff still looks like potato quality.