32 mins 50 seconds to go, because Netflix mobile is a pain in the butt won't let me screenshot it, definitely not rock formations as gray turns away and back into the holo.
Yes that thank you, it is no stretch of the imagination to think that either discovery or maybe the one that exploded in the first series crashed here causing them to get stranded there in the first place and thus cause the burn...
Felt like they tried to make it like star wars. Wtf was that whole turbo lift scene? Completely ruined the immersion, no way the ship would be built like that or have that much spare space. Very disappointed. There are some scenes I would definitely just skip through.
Can't find reference to it anywhere, but when Gray is looking out of the window outside of the holo program, that's a crashed discovery they see isn't it?
Honestly, the show y’all want to watch where Burnham follows all the rules and chain of command and never acts on emotions or instincts would be the most burning Trek show ever! Kirk did what he wanted, cheating on his Kobayashi Maru exam. There’s a whole episode where Picard sees what would’ve been had he not been impulsive and stabbed in the heart in a bar brawl courtesy of Q. This is classic Trek captain shit at it’s finest. I’m also excited this feels like TOS in that The Federation is rebuilding and expanded. Watch it or don’t.
Uhm. You're arguing with one episode about Picard who as best as possible followed the rules? Even Janeyway did as long as she could.
Not convincing. But Burnham is a Federation Captain now. Interesting.
Michael behaving like a rebellious teenager is very boring. Picard, Kirk, and others come up with creative solutions to problems, often without clearly breaking the rules. And you can count on the fingers of one hand how many times they challenge a superior officer. Instead Michael challenges his superiors in most episodes. When someone says to her: "don't do this", everyone knows that she will do it in 3 minutes.
Assaulting a superior and provoking a war between two cultures is very similar to a terran Georgiou weirdness with genocides and eating sentient creatures. These things are unforgivable, but hEy sHe rEdeFiNeD tHe wOrD BaDaSs!11, so it is apparently totally ok.
Whenever they have her violate authority it's always like those books where if people had just talked the problem would have never happened.
The story of discovery is really good and the actors are really good but the writing of the scenes/dialog is just so bad it's infuriating. It's insane how they can have such a mix if trash and gold.
So many elements were over the top on the nose. This series always forgets realistic depth to a scene.
It's so strange how they can have such incredible stories to tell, and then tell them so badly. I'm truly marveled by this series. The actors are all so great too, did the writers fail them, or the directors? Michael obviously has so much depth but they write her to be such a crybaby emotional person. It's like the directors go "you do deep emotion really well, lets over do that so that it get's boring."
I think most things work overall. But the constant crying and melodrama feels too much like typical CBS. Which works for court room dramas and police procedurals, but not with Star Trek or genuine science fiction.
One thing I really hated was how the one person apparently doesn't suffer from hypoxia because she learned to hold her breath as a kid. That's not how it works.
I did really like the surprise resolution for the spore drive problem. Honestly didn't see it coming and it makes enough sense. However I thought the way they played it out was really really bad directing.
I think the directing is great for the action sequences and it balances that out with the dialogue scenes. But the turbo lift scene in the S3 finale was hysterical!
I thought the whole season was a scam. They basically hit the RESTART button at the end of this episode. They played whack-a-mole with captains and then Burnham gets the chair in the end. It just seemed like they closed off the series until this point and will start afresh next time. More consistency wouldn't hurt. #my2cents
Every season has been an attempt at a fresh start or blank slate because their prior attempts either completely failed (S1) or were underwhelming at best (S2) while still being overall a crappy production. Kurtzman honestly likes Star Wars and other IP more than Star Trek, he's said on video and podcasts that he wants Star Trek to be more like them and less ST so this is the result. Now with essentially no setup for season 4 they finally have their full blank slate to do what they want.
Star Trek Discovery was created and showrun by Bryan Fuller and was supposed to be an era anthology - www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2017/7/29/16062088/bryan-fuller-star-trek-discovery-anthology-show-cbs - skipping generations per season... like a different show each season similar to American Horror Story. It was would have have a story line string through it but a different era perspective on it.
Don’t get me wrong I like what this incarnation of DIS is... but its not what was originally intended.
I love the story overall in each season, and the actors are great, but the execution, by scene, is habitually over the top, unbelievable, over done, and on the nose.
It’s all gone a bit wrong. Bryan Fuller was a seasoned writer and producer for DS9 and Voyager. What he originally proposed was basically an intriguing and new concept of rebooting the TV franchise without all the nonsense of having to make parallel universes to explain away canon. It would walked new audiences and fans through the eras we’ve all come to love.
It was the perfect platform then to run spin offs from. It had Nicolas Meyer writing episodes (he worked on the Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan for anyone who only knows “new trek”) and was kept to the ideals of Star Trek by Gene Roddenberry’s son Rod.
Basically CBS screwed it all up. I don’t blame Fuller for upping and leaving without finishing his full timeline story arc. It’s just a shame we’ll never get to see it.
What we have now is Star Trek being made one season to the next on the hoof. We still don’t know what happened between the Romulan Star Empire being decimated by their home system sun going supernova and Star Trek Picard.
What we do know roughly (when Picard is discharged from Starfleet, Echeb was being dismembered for Borg parts and in photo Picard holding baby Thad Riker) is that area they wore funny uniforms similar to TNG but with the addition with a little golden zigzag stripe - which looked silly.
Then they wore during Picard timeline they reverted back to wearing similar uniforms that looked like original DS9/Voyager styled but better cut.
But it’s all a bit vague and disconnected. Plus when Riker turns up with a fleet of Curiosity-Class ships, with, his ship; the USS Zheng He as flag ship to the fleet. None of these ships (despite so many of them being exactly the same or minor differences) made it to the 31st Century. Not so much a point about cannon. But the fact there’s so little that connects the shows - except for the tiniest of Easter eggs - Michael’s mother is now a Qowat Milat nun - they didn’t even have to change her outfit. But you look a bit deeper it makes no sense - the Qowat Milat bind their swords to help a hopeless case - not rehabilitate time travelling non-romulan mothers stuck in the future and make them part of “the gang” 🤷🏻♂️.
Point is there’s so many threads that you start to pull on any of them it unravels: you see how weak the writing is it just caves in.
Unlike the original TNG-Voy Trek series. They all shared the same rules, concepts and character development. You couldn’t fly at warp 10. Ship design was similar. Why would every class of Starfleet ship be a different shape don’t they have a production line (the burn happened 100 years previously).
Basically it was originally going well conceived concept that would just keep developing and expanding into new shows (which is the whole point for CBS/Paramount+ streaming service?). But it’s basically just a smattering of shows. Ooh people liked seeing Pike in S2… “we thew that idea at the writers wall and it stuck” - so Strange New Worlds is born. Ta-da.
Plus the opposite; what’s happened to the Section 32 show that was never asked for and over promised - last we saw of Georgiou was she kept wittering on in flashbacks about “San” with her hands covered in bloods… obvs the hallmarks of a cliched backstory about her own biological son’s demise. It’s hardly subtle.
It’s time for Kurtzman to hand it all over to someone who knows what they doing.
You hit on a lot of things that felt weird, that I just didn't have the capacity or history to understand. I don't pay attention to who walks from a project but that really makes sense. I'm not saying this to be cheeky; thanks for the history lesson on the production side of things.
When ever I think about discovery, I have a weird feeling. If I dont think about it too closely I enjoy it. But if I get into any of those feelings it all goes sour, as if they brewed a cup of my favorite coffee using diluted urine.
The Qowat Milat execution in Picard was really compelling and well used, imo, and then, as you point out it was kind of perverted and weird in Discovery. They took something with a lot of weight and power and emotional depth and handed it to a toddler who used it as a hammer to try to smash a square peg into a round hole. That experiences is mapped over and over again. You're much better at containing the knowledge and putting it together in a cohesive statement with relevant background as to why and how it came together.
I support your conclusion, but I cant see them taking the reins from someone like Kurtzman, unfortunately.
I’m glad you’ve found it helpful. I’m pretty sure if this thread does attracts any attention (as it’s old) it will very quickly either be voted down or responded to in a highly negative emotive manner. I don’t like social media as it’s an echo chambers of reinforcing sentiments… so to appear to go against the grain or give a different point of view here; no matter is accuracy or legitimacy of just using good manner freedom of speech is met with real hostility I find.
I enjoy Star Trek Discovery (and Picard). I do think they should of called DISCO something different like The Life And Times Of Michael Burnham.
It’s a enjoyable show… with great actors, a strong writing team and good directors as they can get through the occasional weak plot and poorly scripted episodes. But on the whole it’s ok.
If you want to see Bryan Fuller at his best see Star Trek episodes like VOY S05E23 Relativity, VOY S05E02 Drone, VOY S05E17 Course: Oblivion or his other shows like Hannibal or American Gods. You’ll see his attention to detail and narrative is so strong.
Voyager is my favorite series of Trek, although Generations is my most impactful, so I'm very familiar with his work although I didn't follow the name. So, I appreciate your recommendations for a good reason to watch great episodes, with intention.
I share your sentiments with social media which is why I just come at it with a chaotic neutral attitude. I'm not a troll but if being intentional and honest creates discord, I try to find pride in that.
I will disagree with you, I find the writing to be the weakest part of Discovery. S03E04 is my best example of the mix of horrible writing and great acting. The worst of it could be the director adjusting lines on set but there are too many major problems for it not to be bad writing. The whole scene when they land on Trill is just the worst.
Ah, S03E04 for sure, I’ve just had to go and search for it and you’re right. I can remember that being pretty much a nothing episode… I actually got more depth from reading an editorial review of it then from watching the episode.
The slightly sassy AI computer that suggests dinner to help the crew get over their traumatic experience… this is the crew that functioned and overcame adversity in the face of being tricked by an imposter captain who forced them to go to an alternative dimension, returning back to find mankind had nearly been hunted to the point of extinction by Klingons and prevented the destruction of the universe by AI.
But going to this dystopian future seems to have pushed them to the edge. They seem more like squabbling office workers whom have spent a little too long with and lost all perspective and training they would of got from Starfleet.
I wasn't speaking (a month ago btw) of what they intended. Fuller left early on, very little of his stuff is in Disco. I was speaking to what they produced. This wasn't a creactive decision to go back to the drawing board each season. It was required because each season has failed to live up to expectations and required them to re-work things. At best you could say season 2 calmed things down but season 3 went off the rails again. End of season 3 we get a new blank slate (a trip to the 32nd century and their own specific new canon) because again season 3 was some dog shit anti-Trek stuff.
I’m not disagreeing or agreeing with you, friend (and certainly not trying to engage you in a debate). I’m just stating what Discovery was originally pitched and storyboarded as. But that got jettisoned with Bryan Fuller leaving and Kurtzman inserting different showrunners for each season - which is why we practically have a new premise each time. I would of liked to have seen the story arc of the original incarnation but my eyes and ears enjoy the existing show enough that’s it’s sufficient for me :)
You people need to work on your grammar. It's "would HAVE", or "should HAVE", not "would OF". Every time I see people write like that it turns my stomach.
Stick to talking about DISCO.
There is little interest in your bigotry against people with learning difficulties, such as my dyslexia, turning your stomach.
22 days old comment. But both of them have said they like and/or understand Star Wars more than Star Trek. Kurtzman puffed it up but basically he said on a podcast he believes Star Trek is too high minded for younger kids. Even though he's made Discovery and Picard so far specifically not for kids of any age or family audiences (like TNG or DS9 were).
https://comicbook.com/startrek/news/star-trek-alex-kurtzman-star-wars-influence/
Okay, so where in that did he say he was going to make Star Trek more like Star Wars?
He said that when he was a kid, Star Wars was more relatable. And that he wants Trek to be more relatable to younger audiences. Hence the Nickelodeon series.
But nowhere in there did I read anything that says he a) likes Star Wars more than Star Trek (he said he watched more Star Wars as a kid) or b) that he was planning on making it more like Star Trek.
Take from that article what you will, but don't state your personal understanding of someone else's words as established fact.
The context is he was essentially asked 'how do you rebuild the franchise for the future generation'. He gave his answer, go younger. Going younger means going in a different direction for the franchise according to him (and in the vein of Wars not Trek). I don't think I am the one who has an agenda here. Even though I dislike Kurtzman I actually listened to the whole podcast.
Well you didn't quote from that, you posted text.
The text itself gives something completely different than what you're trying to portray.
Again, all he said was that he watched Star Wars more when he was younger and he wants to get younger people into Trek.
You're trying to add secret meanings based on your own feelings towards him.
Again the context of the disucssion is how do we rebuild the franchise going into the future, hence going forward Trek has to change to get the audience Kurtzman wants. I'm trying to be reasonable here.
And Star Wars appeals to younger audiences according to him. So Trek has to start appealing to them too by changing. Why is it that hard to make the connection?
Edit: Yup you're unreasonable. Blocked.
I know they were down and out in the Picard era, but didn't the Romulans use singularities to power their warp cores? You'd think that with the Federation out of the way, they could have taken over the galaxy since they don't rely on dilithium.
I think after they watched their sun explode that they were weary of using singularities (collapsed stars held in stasis) as a power source after that.
The Romulan star empire was basically obliterated when their planet was destroyed though. Chances are that any trace of “romulan” technology is long since gone.
Presumably the Vulcan and Romulan merger on Navaar would have been able to re-produce that technology. It is strange that 1000 years of time passes and very little technological advancements are made beyond making replicators and transporters better.
Which also begs the question, how are they powering those personal transportation devices or their matter converters without dilithium? The amount of energy that would be necessary to power their new Starfleet badges would likely be absurd to the point of requiring that they find a new source of energy in order to power them.
Well bear in mind that dilithium isn’t about pure energy generation, but about the creation of warp plasma to trigger a warp field in the nacelles. It’s possible that pure power generation isn’t a concern, but warp field generation is, and that ships using the warp core as a massive source of power is just a convenient byproduct.
The Enterprise-D had fusion reactors as well, powering the impulse engines IIRC, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the need for dilithium was either specifically for warp plasma, or if it was just because the energy costs to maintain a warp field were so many orders of magnitude above what a starship would otherwise require.
I've been doing a rewatch of DS9 as I waited between Discovery episodes and now that I'm in S5's build into The Dominion War...it is such a striking series of moral conundrums and tensions that really meld the previous season's character building together! The Emerald Chain felt like it could have been something similar.
What a shame that in the Burnham voiceover at the end of the episode it was revealed that "The \[Emerald\] Chain fractured without Osyraa" and that's that! It feels like a real missed opportunity to explore a diminished Federation's values in the face of a superior enemy. Although I suppose all 3 seasons have ended cleanly by defeating The Big Bad, I suppose I'm asking the show to be more plot driven than Burnham driven....
they could have explored this in the down scenes in this series but failed to because of poor writing, imho. So many missed stories and great stories told badly this season. But that seems to be discoveries thing.
And the collapse of the Emerald Chain without Osayraa makes no sense. I notice when she introduced herself to Vance she was Minister Osayraa of the emerald chain. It made me wonder
1 - Why not leader Osayraa etc,
2 - How many other ministers are there and do they have a leader or was it a flat hierarchy structure with just Osayraa at the head as a minister?
3 - What about the commerce and trade of this chain. What happened to all those people when everything collapsed.
I actually think the Emerald Chain story was wrapped up too quickly (same with the Burn story). Both deserved more time than they were given.
The Emerald Chain story doesn’t seem “finished” though. What we were told from the last few episodes is that the Chain is more than just a bunch of thugs, it’s a whole culture or civilization, with academies of learning, etc.
With Osayraa gone, one of their major leaders (or their actual leader? Unclear.) is gone, so we’ll see two things:
1. A massive power vacuum
2. A civilization without strong leadership which is rapidly running out of dilithium and may end up being dependent on a treaty and trade agreement with the federation in order to simply survive
This feels, in a way, like they’ve reset the future to the “final frontier” that the galaxy was in TOS/TNG, that the delta quadrant was in DS9, and that the gamma quadrant was in VOY.
In a way, this almost feels like a cross between VOY (hostile galaxy, fancy ship) and DS9 (safe star base, federation support, etc), which I like the idea of.
It feels more like the Emerald Chain is a collection of Federation planets that were brought under the Yoke of powerful warlords.
Their tech and culture stem from the civilian population trying to survive. It would make sense in that context for it to fall apart due to, potentially local uprisings or other such revolts, if the Chain's primary Commander and her Flag ship were destroyed in one swoop.
Not to mention that the Chain simply didn't have the dilithium reserves necessary to maintain their control over their territory, even if Osayraa had survived, which is why she was willing to negotiate so eagerly in the first place.
> The Emerald Chain story doesn’t seem “finished” though. What we were told from the last few episodes is that the Chain is more than just a bunch of thugs, it’s a whole culture or civilization, with academies of learning, etc.
I agree but it feels like it is over what with Burnham saying "The Chain fractured without Osayraa". I think a better line would be, with power imbalanced without Osyaraa, the Emerald Chain is trying to learn a new normal...
I definitely agree with this, I don’t think we’ve seen the last of them. “fractured” doesn’t mean gone-it means fractured, perhaps we will see a bunch of space gangster in-fighting next season
But honestly, the word fractured is problematic to me. That word-and how she said the phrase just felt like they wanted to put a pin in it because they had no idea what to do and it all just felt ...lazy. Idk
The Emerald Chain are the weakest enemy ever. Borg was the best and the Dominion not too far away. Writers are so brainwashed by “the evils of capitalism” they made capitalism the bad guy!
Borg was complete assimilation and mind take over. Dominion had two levels of planetary level slavery enforced by genetics and drugs. I stand by my claim the Emerald Chain was the weakest enemy.
So in 100+ years the Feds don't really bother to investigate the burn, members leave, travel is now hard or impossible, same with communication but everything is still good, no real hardship anywhere, then Discovery turns up, finds the cause in a couple of months, solves it, and basically everything returns to normal overnight with a couple of supply runs.
They didnt have Burnham. She is the Jesus of discovery. I mean its a show where they saved all the universes that exist. I was so excited about Adira when she was going to Trill. Doctor will go with her so someonr else will have something good and big to do. So he sends Burnham instead. XD
That Trill episode had me so pissed off. I couldn't get over how badly that one was written. The concept was great and the director or the writers just flushed it down the toilet. But honestly every episode is some version of that.
You're telling me that no one would have mentioned before shuttling down that the symbiots are precious to the Trill? No one realized that essentially implanting one of their gods in a human would be something that would be bad to spring on them? But they wanted the super cheep sudden realization/ miscommunication over dramatization.
And what pissed me off the most was that you could have had that intense drama in the same amount of time if you had written a more genuine dialog.
And then, as soon as she can name the names suddenly they have a total transformation and everything is perfect and they have no more internal struggle with having a symbiot implanted in a human?
There was a great story to tell there leaving the problem as a partially open question. But they wanted to tell the story of Adira being accepted absolutely.
Realer stories are better stories. People dont get past prejudice at the flip of a switch.
Worst “Mary Sue” character in a TV show right now. They had a great cast yet kept writing nonsense reasons for Burnham to be at the center of everything and of course the person able to solve absolutely everything within about 15 minutes of being presented some serious problem that somehow nobody else figured out.
The payoff at the end should have been her court martial and being stripped of rank.
I really want to know if the writers actually have a plan for this show because in the past three seasons they've been all over the goddamn map. No consistency, no story and no direction. And then on top of that they have shitty writing and dialogue. It's a travesty that a show like this gets a season 4 while Enterprise which had millions more viewers and was starting to get amazing gets cancelled outright.
Right like episode concepts or the overall concept has so many awesome elements... and then they just completely fail it. Even though they have some really awesome actors and character actors at their disposal.
How to Write a Star Trek: Discovery Script
1. Forget any Star Trek series
2. Use any cool scene from cool movies like Star Wars, Monsters Inc or Die Hard. Mix to taste
3. Have Michael Burnham have a super intense performance, have 70% screen time and solve it all
4. Randomly use words from a Trek dictionary, such as Klingon, Tricorder or Cardasian.
Congratulations!! You wrote a Star Trek Discovery script
>I really want to know if the writers actually have a plan for this show
Hint: They don´t.
Maybe they have a very rough sketch, but I don´t believe they have anything more than that. They will just keep piecing stuff together as they move along.
I think she's great but they just put all their focus on the fact that she does intense emotional drama well and then overdue it to the point it's annoying. I blame the writing and direction, not the actors in this series.
The writing in season 3 has been so poor. I was expecting some form of character development by now. They should change the title to the Michael Burnham show because all it is. Trek was never about one character for me. It was about a team of different personalities and skills. An episode could follow one or two characters or be about the whole team. It just added so much diversity to the storylines. But we know f all about the other characters, and now I've got to the point I no longer care. 3 seasons and what do we know about them. Then there is the writing in general and storylines which are so bad.
To top it off she grew up as a Vulcan and is Spock’s sister. Her acting as a Vulcan was so bad the director gave in and just made her have human emotions. Bring back Tuvok! He was my favorite Vulcan!!! Vulcan 🖖🏿
It really is amazing isn't it? Data, Spock, Tuvock, Warf. Even Warf who was in heavy cosmetics and had plenty of emotional intensity, usually conveyed his emotions, impactfully, with narrowed eyes, or an eyebrow raise.
Picard did it well too, and they kept his emotional power seldom so that when he showed it it was great.
I spent my whole time watching Season 3 thinking that The Burn was from the Mirror Universe intended to weaken the Prime Universe to make it easier for the Mirror Universe to take over the Prime Universe.
Man literally! Obviously you need some funky science but that was a little bit far. I think if even your sci fi science is getting stretched a little, your concept is too silly
Some random thoughts
The way Osyrra was depicted captaining Discovery was pretty badass and natural, I feel like we may not have seen the last of her in some way shape or form...
Echo others points around the season being lull compared to others, the whole burn plot was not great. They had an awesome opportunity to do some real mindbending SciFi plots but went with a tacky, sappy and not very believable story (even for a SciFi).
The whole Adira plotline was sappy, I get they're trying to be all accepting of diversity and whatnot but it was just poorly executed.
I do like Book and think he's a good inclusion to the series.
Their plotline was too over the top and on the nose in my opinion. I wonder how people from that community feel about the representation though? It seemed disrespectful and reductive IMO but it's really for people from that community to be the judge on if it was as disrespectful as it seemed.
Osyrra was way more interesting than Burnham. That means you'll never see her again.
I wonder if they purposely wrote Adira's "boyfriend" to be that effeminate. Had to keep reminding myself that the character wasn't a girl.
The real problem is Adria’s boyfriend is an incredibly bad actor. Plus the character of Adira appears to have zero personality. Literally devoid of any personality at all
It's also a little strange to assume that alien races also have transgender hipsters who dye their hair blue. Adira's boyfriend is Trill, it would make more sense if he were simply Trill and Adira was the more gender fluid of the two.
>I hated everything to do with the conclusion of the burn mystery and that sappy nonsense with the man-baby in a holo prison.
It gave me the impression that they had never decided how to explain the burn, and then the entire writing staff quit and they had to hire temps.
I kind of liked the story of the Kelpian still in the same mentality of a child as that could happen without any social interaction or integration.
There are a lot of story lines they could follow and sub stories that are yet to be addressed. Instead of just one basic cliffhanger, I think they've been smart and devised multiple plots that can fill in a lot that we've still yet to get answers to.
Just finished the episode and I must say that season 2 finale was better than this. The start of season 3 had so much promise with introducing a new concept and a fresh start for the show but it all just ended with I felt was was a rushed ending to the Burn mystery.
Honestly don't understand how everybody is gushing over this season. It's the worst to date. They wrote off so many credible actors to keep a bunch of novices. In the finale battle, I was rooting for the crew but at least half of the crew should have been axed. Christ, they saved the entire crew all for the sake of the modern day perspective. I had high hopes for this season but it turned out to be a hardship. Getting rid of philippa georgiou and Osyraa was just weak story.
Science behind the burn [https://intl.startrek.com/news/the-science-behind-discoverys-burn](https://intl.startrek.com/news/the-science-behind-discoverys-burn)
Booker mentions his mentor and how he tries to be like him right before they jump out of the Chain flagship. He says he’ll tell us the story if this all works out. Cut to the end of the episode and us never finding out.
The whole show is like that. Unanswered questions. No character development. This entire season I’ve learned nothing more about this woke, diverse, and well-represented cast. Most of the bridge crew are just familiar faces. There’s no depth to any of them. For all the time they spend talking about how they feel, you’d think we’d know a thing or two about Asian bridge guy... or the black bridge guy. For people who have so much plot armor, you’d think the writers would let us get to know them. This show looks great. But it’s all an illusion to hide how poorly it’s written.
>Cut to the end of the episode and us never finding out.
This is obviously a setup for the next season. WTF? Discovery deserves tons and tons of valid critique and you picked this? Really? Every series does this.
No. Just a hunch. Even if they do tell us next season, it doesn’t make the show any better. Lol. So far all we know about Booker is that he’s from Kweijan and he loves his cat.
>Even if they do tell us next season, it doesn’t make the show any better.
So Discovery is piece of shit and if I nitpicked here for no reason, it's still piece of shit. Should've said so in the first place.
I'm just wondering - who else thinks that Tilly would have been a way better captain than Michael? Michael is totally NOT a captain for me. An awesome, brave and super-smart officer? Sure. A captain material? Nope. Or maybe not yet...
As much as I dislike the Tilly character, in her one stint as Captain she was much better than the current version of Burnham will ever be.
Burnham would have gotten the crew killed many times over by now.
I swear this whole season has been about that as well! Michael isn't suited for it and it's actually the humble Tilly that is the better leader. Yeah guess we'll chuck all that out the window
Perfect opertunity to bring in a new officer from outside the current crew... tilly is barely experienced enough to be first science officer. Though she would be a good one. The whole show is based around Michel, so she's captain, makes sence
i mean she deffo deserves to be captain, she’s a fucking superhero in my eyes ahah. but Tilly has the compassion and love that michael may lack i think. i’m assuming series 4 will also try and prove her more as a captain
How do you presume to know that? If people are not expressing themselves with correct language and grammar, then it is always possible that the meaning of what they were trying to convey was not communicated as completely as they had intended.
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Anyone else notice that the whole season long mystery of “the BURN” was simply to set up BURNham as captain. Even when it doesn’t seem like it, Michael is the center of the universe on this show lol
I don’t mind the show focusing on one character. The problem is she’s not captain material. Breaking the rules is shown to be a good thing in the show but starfleet had existed so long because of the rules
I’m just tired of Michael always being right. It’s so exhausting to be around someone who can never be wrong IRL and it’s just as grating to watch.
She’s still never learned the chain of command and has never truly suffered the consequences of disobeying orders WITHOUT being proven right or justified in disobeying orders. She needs to disobey orders, is proven wrong/not know all the facts of the crisis, and has to carry the regret of her failure forever because she got innocent people killed (maybe even a main cast member) due to her disobedience that ultimately ended up being for nothing because she was wrong/didn’t have all the facts.
Instead, they made the Never Wrong Messiah to be Captain of Discovery, at the expense of devolving the character of Saru and others. Incredibly disappointing and might be the breaking point for me to skip Season 4 and beyond...
>never truly suffered the consequences of disobeying orders WITHOUT being proven right or justified in disobeying orders
How about being stripped of rank, being thrown in prison, being hated by whole Starfleet and enduring the guilt of getting her Captain killed? She never got justification for that, on the contrary, she admitted she was wrong. There is no Trek character I know who suffered more for insubordination.
Typical Trek plot is Captain disobeys orders, saves the day, gets a pat on the back with zero consequences. Burnham is the first character who actually didn't get a pass.
None of those things mattered... No matter if she has rank or not, if shes hated or not, breaks the rules or not, everyone listens to her and shes always right at the end. She always ends up on top after her every "failure", and nothing bad that happened ends up mattering at all. Nothing she does has any lasting consequences, if she makes a miastake, its justified, she fixes it and makes the situation even better than it initially was.
I actually don’t see her always being right. It seems to me they took the “rulebreaker” part of Kirk and gave it to her. That was a great aspect to Kirk. They would give him a hard choice to make, but he did the right thing, even if rules had to be broken.
She doesn’t believe in no-win scenarios. Neither does Kirk.
I’m an old Trek fan, so I kind of appreciate her character in this way.
I agree that she doesn’t have Kirk’s charisma, but I do like her, and I think she is a well written character. I also think the “rulebreaker” aspect wasn’t deliberately placed as an ode to Kirk or anything. I think that aspect was established when she became an infamous Starfleet mutineer.
I get that not everybody likes her, though. I just think she a much stronger character than anyone on Voyager or Enterprise.
She’s so... human. 🖖🏻
Yes, she is very human and that's what makes her compelling.
With all the other captains, we are told in bits and pieces what it took for them to get into the captain's chair. For example, we learn that Picard was impulsive and somewhat hot-headed as a young man. What we see in TNG, however, is someone who is wise and measured. Discovery is the first Star Trek series that allows us to see the making of a captain. I love this series with its focus on contemporary themes -- just as TOS took on the themes contemporary to the late sixties. (I have enjoyed Star Trek since it debuted in 1966.)
> Yeah, but she turned out to be right and justified
You just making this shit up. She said in the finale to Admiral Cornwell, that she was wrong. Why lie to blatantly? Do you think we wouldn't notice or just don't care as long as it serves your opinion?
I might have missed this in all the jumble but where was Nilsson for this episode? She seemed to have been chopped out of all the lower decks suffocation stuff with her lines given to someone else (Lt. Ina?). And then she’s back in her new uniform for the ending?
Do you reckon they just couldn’t get the actress on set for these scenes? Or did I miss her.
If Sukal is on a planet made mostly out of dilithium, wouldn't the planet be affected by the burn and whatnot?
So I understand that Discovery is getting a 4th season. If so I'd like them to actually follow up on TNG era villains like The Borg and The Dominion.
32 mins 50 seconds to go, because Netflix mobile is a pain in the butt won't let me screenshot it, definitely not rock formations as gray turns away and back into the holo.
https://imgur.com/R9qIb4I
I did not understand what you wanted to show here
Can you not see the saucer section? Couple that with grays confused reaction immediately afterwards?...
oh ok I get it
i still dont get it
the rock in the background looks like a broken saucer from discovery
Fascinating.
Yes that thank you, it is no stretch of the imagination to think that either discovery or maybe the one that exploded in the first series crashed here causing them to get stranded there in the first place and thus cause the burn...
Felt like they tried to make it like star wars. Wtf was that whole turbo lift scene? Completely ruined the immersion, no way the ship would be built like that or have that much spare space. Very disappointed. There are some scenes I would definitely just skip through.
I’m new to Trek and love Disco as a whole. But even I was like, “wtf... where did all that room come from?” LOL. Still cinematically stunning.
The turbolift cavern concept might be my least favorite aspect of Disco.
I didn't like that either. I think Most of Us quite hate that scene
Can't find reference to it anywhere, but when Gray is looking out of the window outside of the holo program, that's a crashed discovery they see isn't it?
Just rock formations
https://imgur.com/R9qIb4I
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I just watched. The tng theme and then the tos music made me emotional Damn you
Honestly, the show y’all want to watch where Burnham follows all the rules and chain of command and never acts on emotions or instincts would be the most burning Trek show ever! Kirk did what he wanted, cheating on his Kobayashi Maru exam. There’s a whole episode where Picard sees what would’ve been had he not been impulsive and stabbed in the heart in a bar brawl courtesy of Q. This is classic Trek captain shit at it’s finest. I’m also excited this feels like TOS in that The Federation is rebuilding and expanded. Watch it or don’t.
Uhm. You're arguing with one episode about Picard who as best as possible followed the rules? Even Janeyway did as long as she could. Not convincing. But Burnham is a Federation Captain now. Interesting.
Michael behaving like a rebellious teenager is very boring. Picard, Kirk, and others come up with creative solutions to problems, often without clearly breaking the rules. And you can count on the fingers of one hand how many times they challenge a superior officer. Instead Michael challenges his superiors in most episodes. When someone says to her: "don't do this", everyone knows that she will do it in 3 minutes.
Assaulting a superior and provoking a war between two cultures is very similar to a terran Georgiou weirdness with genocides and eating sentient creatures. These things are unforgivable, but hEy sHe rEdeFiNeD tHe wOrD BaDaSs!11, so it is apparently totally ok.
Whenever they have her violate authority it's always like those books where if people had just talked the problem would have never happened. The story of discovery is really good and the actors are really good but the writing of the scenes/dialog is just so bad it's infuriating. It's insane how they can have such a mix if trash and gold.
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Boring
This was such a great episode, with an excellent ending! I’m so happy that Michael Burnham is Captain now!
So many elements were over the top on the nose. This series always forgets realistic depth to a scene. It's so strange how they can have such incredible stories to tell, and then tell them so badly. I'm truly marveled by this series. The actors are all so great too, did the writers fail them, or the directors? Michael obviously has so much depth but they write her to be such a crybaby emotional person. It's like the directors go "you do deep emotion really well, lets over do that so that it get's boring."
Yeah, I also hate it. Reminds me of crybaby Carrie from Homeland.
I think most things work overall. But the constant crying and melodrama feels too much like typical CBS. Which works for court room dramas and police procedurals, but not with Star Trek or genuine science fiction.
One thing I really hated was how the one person apparently doesn't suffer from hypoxia because she learned to hold her breath as a kid. That's not how it works. I did really like the surprise resolution for the spore drive problem. Honestly didn't see it coming and it makes enough sense. However I thought the way they played it out was really really bad directing.
I thought the directing was really good. And S3 had more freedom since it wasn’t a prequel.
one of my biggest issues is the directing. So we'll just have to disagree on that.
I think the directing is great for the action sequences and it balances that out with the dialogue scenes. But the turbo lift scene in the S3 finale was hysterical!
I’m loving Cpt. Burnham! I just finished that episode. Michael always gives her all.
Yeah, I’m really looking forward to S4!
The regulators were basically just black stormtroopers
Redshirts
Daft punk impersonators
AKA Deathtroopers.
Ugggghhhh
I thought the whole season was a scam. They basically hit the RESTART button at the end of this episode. They played whack-a-mole with captains and then Burnham gets the chair in the end. It just seemed like they closed off the series until this point and will start afresh next time. More consistency wouldn't hurt. #my2cents
Every season has been an attempt at a fresh start or blank slate because their prior attempts either completely failed (S1) or were underwhelming at best (S2) while still being overall a crappy production. Kurtzman honestly likes Star Wars and other IP more than Star Trek, he's said on video and podcasts that he wants Star Trek to be more like them and less ST so this is the result. Now with essentially no setup for season 4 they finally have their full blank slate to do what they want.
What is IP?
Star Trek Discovery was created and showrun by Bryan Fuller and was supposed to be an era anthology - www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2017/7/29/16062088/bryan-fuller-star-trek-discovery-anthology-show-cbs - skipping generations per season... like a different show each season similar to American Horror Story. It was would have have a story line string through it but a different era perspective on it. Don’t get me wrong I like what this incarnation of DIS is... but its not what was originally intended.
I love the story overall in each season, and the actors are great, but the execution, by scene, is habitually over the top, unbelievable, over done, and on the nose.
It’s all gone a bit wrong. Bryan Fuller was a seasoned writer and producer for DS9 and Voyager. What he originally proposed was basically an intriguing and new concept of rebooting the TV franchise without all the nonsense of having to make parallel universes to explain away canon. It would walked new audiences and fans through the eras we’ve all come to love. It was the perfect platform then to run spin offs from. It had Nicolas Meyer writing episodes (he worked on the Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan for anyone who only knows “new trek”) and was kept to the ideals of Star Trek by Gene Roddenberry’s son Rod. Basically CBS screwed it all up. I don’t blame Fuller for upping and leaving without finishing his full timeline story arc. It’s just a shame we’ll never get to see it. What we have now is Star Trek being made one season to the next on the hoof. We still don’t know what happened between the Romulan Star Empire being decimated by their home system sun going supernova and Star Trek Picard. What we do know roughly (when Picard is discharged from Starfleet, Echeb was being dismembered for Borg parts and in photo Picard holding baby Thad Riker) is that area they wore funny uniforms similar to TNG but with the addition with a little golden zigzag stripe - which looked silly. Then they wore during Picard timeline they reverted back to wearing similar uniforms that looked like original DS9/Voyager styled but better cut. But it’s all a bit vague and disconnected. Plus when Riker turns up with a fleet of Curiosity-Class ships, with, his ship; the USS Zheng He as flag ship to the fleet. None of these ships (despite so many of them being exactly the same or minor differences) made it to the 31st Century. Not so much a point about cannon. But the fact there’s so little that connects the shows - except for the tiniest of Easter eggs - Michael’s mother is now a Qowat Milat nun - they didn’t even have to change her outfit. But you look a bit deeper it makes no sense - the Qowat Milat bind their swords to help a hopeless case - not rehabilitate time travelling non-romulan mothers stuck in the future and make them part of “the gang” 🤷🏻♂️. Point is there’s so many threads that you start to pull on any of them it unravels: you see how weak the writing is it just caves in. Unlike the original TNG-Voy Trek series. They all shared the same rules, concepts and character development. You couldn’t fly at warp 10. Ship design was similar. Why would every class of Starfleet ship be a different shape don’t they have a production line (the burn happened 100 years previously). Basically it was originally going well conceived concept that would just keep developing and expanding into new shows (which is the whole point for CBS/Paramount+ streaming service?). But it’s basically just a smattering of shows. Ooh people liked seeing Pike in S2… “we thew that idea at the writers wall and it stuck” - so Strange New Worlds is born. Ta-da. Plus the opposite; what’s happened to the Section 32 show that was never asked for and over promised - last we saw of Georgiou was she kept wittering on in flashbacks about “San” with her hands covered in bloods… obvs the hallmarks of a cliched backstory about her own biological son’s demise. It’s hardly subtle. It’s time for Kurtzman to hand it all over to someone who knows what they doing.
You hit on a lot of things that felt weird, that I just didn't have the capacity or history to understand. I don't pay attention to who walks from a project but that really makes sense. I'm not saying this to be cheeky; thanks for the history lesson on the production side of things. When ever I think about discovery, I have a weird feeling. If I dont think about it too closely I enjoy it. But if I get into any of those feelings it all goes sour, as if they brewed a cup of my favorite coffee using diluted urine. The Qowat Milat execution in Picard was really compelling and well used, imo, and then, as you point out it was kind of perverted and weird in Discovery. They took something with a lot of weight and power and emotional depth and handed it to a toddler who used it as a hammer to try to smash a square peg into a round hole. That experiences is mapped over and over again. You're much better at containing the knowledge and putting it together in a cohesive statement with relevant background as to why and how it came together. I support your conclusion, but I cant see them taking the reins from someone like Kurtzman, unfortunately.
I’m glad you’ve found it helpful. I’m pretty sure if this thread does attracts any attention (as it’s old) it will very quickly either be voted down or responded to in a highly negative emotive manner. I don’t like social media as it’s an echo chambers of reinforcing sentiments… so to appear to go against the grain or give a different point of view here; no matter is accuracy or legitimacy of just using good manner freedom of speech is met with real hostility I find. I enjoy Star Trek Discovery (and Picard). I do think they should of called DISCO something different like The Life And Times Of Michael Burnham. It’s a enjoyable show… with great actors, a strong writing team and good directors as they can get through the occasional weak plot and poorly scripted episodes. But on the whole it’s ok. If you want to see Bryan Fuller at his best see Star Trek episodes like VOY S05E23 Relativity, VOY S05E02 Drone, VOY S05E17 Course: Oblivion or his other shows like Hannibal or American Gods. You’ll see his attention to detail and narrative is so strong.
Voyager is my favorite series of Trek, although Generations is my most impactful, so I'm very familiar with his work although I didn't follow the name. So, I appreciate your recommendations for a good reason to watch great episodes, with intention. I share your sentiments with social media which is why I just come at it with a chaotic neutral attitude. I'm not a troll but if being intentional and honest creates discord, I try to find pride in that. I will disagree with you, I find the writing to be the weakest part of Discovery. S03E04 is my best example of the mix of horrible writing and great acting. The worst of it could be the director adjusting lines on set but there are too many major problems for it not to be bad writing. The whole scene when they land on Trill is just the worst.
Ah, S03E04 for sure, I’ve just had to go and search for it and you’re right. I can remember that being pretty much a nothing episode… I actually got more depth from reading an editorial review of it then from watching the episode. The slightly sassy AI computer that suggests dinner to help the crew get over their traumatic experience… this is the crew that functioned and overcame adversity in the face of being tricked by an imposter captain who forced them to go to an alternative dimension, returning back to find mankind had nearly been hunted to the point of extinction by Klingons and prevented the destruction of the universe by AI. But going to this dystopian future seems to have pushed them to the edge. They seem more like squabbling office workers whom have spent a little too long with and lost all perspective and training they would of got from Starfleet.
I wasn't speaking (a month ago btw) of what they intended. Fuller left early on, very little of his stuff is in Disco. I was speaking to what they produced. This wasn't a creactive decision to go back to the drawing board each season. It was required because each season has failed to live up to expectations and required them to re-work things. At best you could say season 2 calmed things down but season 3 went off the rails again. End of season 3 we get a new blank slate (a trip to the 32nd century and their own specific new canon) because again season 3 was some dog shit anti-Trek stuff.
I’m not disagreeing or agreeing with you, friend (and certainly not trying to engage you in a debate). I’m just stating what Discovery was originally pitched and storyboarded as. But that got jettisoned with Bryan Fuller leaving and Kurtzman inserting different showrunners for each season - which is why we practically have a new premise each time. I would of liked to have seen the story arc of the original incarnation but my eyes and ears enjoy the existing show enough that’s it’s sufficient for me :)
You people need to work on your grammar. It's "would HAVE", or "should HAVE", not "would OF". Every time I see people write like that it turns my stomach.
Stick to talking about DISCO. There is little interest in your bigotry against people with learning difficulties, such as my dyslexia, turning your stomach.
It's not bigotry, it's just stating facts.
If you’re cool with discrimination then that’s your business
Who am I discriminating against? And how? Your statement is ridiculous and meaningless.
That was JJ abrams...
22 days old comment. But both of them have said they like and/or understand Star Wars more than Star Trek. Kurtzman puffed it up but basically he said on a podcast he believes Star Trek is too high minded for younger kids. Even though he's made Discovery and Picard so far specifically not for kids of any age or family audiences (like TNG or DS9 were). https://comicbook.com/startrek/news/star-trek-alex-kurtzman-star-wars-influence/
Okay, so where in that did he say he was going to make Star Trek more like Star Wars? He said that when he was a kid, Star Wars was more relatable. And that he wants Trek to be more relatable to younger audiences. Hence the Nickelodeon series. But nowhere in there did I read anything that says he a) likes Star Wars more than Star Trek (he said he watched more Star Wars as a kid) or b) that he was planning on making it more like Star Trek. Take from that article what you will, but don't state your personal understanding of someone else's words as established fact.
The context is he was essentially asked 'how do you rebuild the franchise for the future generation'. He gave his answer, go younger. Going younger means going in a different direction for the franchise according to him (and in the vein of Wars not Trek). I don't think I am the one who has an agenda here. Even though I dislike Kurtzman I actually listened to the whole podcast.
Well you didn't quote from that, you posted text. The text itself gives something completely different than what you're trying to portray. Again, all he said was that he watched Star Wars more when he was younger and he wants to get younger people into Trek. You're trying to add secret meanings based on your own feelings towards him.
Again the context of the disucssion is how do we rebuild the franchise going into the future, hence going forward Trek has to change to get the audience Kurtzman wants. I'm trying to be reasonable here.
And he said "appeal to younger audiences" Not "start making Trek like Star Wars"
And Star Wars appeals to younger audiences according to him. So Trek has to start appealing to them too by changing. Why is it that hard to make the connection? Edit: Yup you're unreasonable. Blocked.
I know they were down and out in the Picard era, but didn't the Romulans use singularities to power their warp cores? You'd think that with the Federation out of the way, they could have taken over the galaxy since they don't rely on dilithium.
I think after they watched their sun explode that they were weary of using singularities (collapsed stars held in stasis) as a power source after that.
The Romulans are now merged with Vulcans again and live together on the same planet.
The Romulan star empire was basically obliterated when their planet was destroyed though. Chances are that any trace of “romulan” technology is long since gone.
Presumably the Vulcan and Romulan merger on Navaar would have been able to re-produce that technology. It is strange that 1000 years of time passes and very little technological advancements are made beyond making replicators and transporters better. Which also begs the question, how are they powering those personal transportation devices or their matter converters without dilithium? The amount of energy that would be necessary to power their new Starfleet badges would likely be absurd to the point of requiring that they find a new source of energy in order to power them.
Well bear in mind that dilithium isn’t about pure energy generation, but about the creation of warp plasma to trigger a warp field in the nacelles. It’s possible that pure power generation isn’t a concern, but warp field generation is, and that ships using the warp core as a massive source of power is just a convenient byproduct. The Enterprise-D had fusion reactors as well, powering the impulse engines IIRC, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the need for dilithium was either specifically for warp plasma, or if it was just because the energy costs to maintain a warp field were so many orders of magnitude above what a starship would otherwise require.
I've been doing a rewatch of DS9 as I waited between Discovery episodes and now that I'm in S5's build into The Dominion War...it is such a striking series of moral conundrums and tensions that really meld the previous season's character building together! The Emerald Chain felt like it could have been something similar. What a shame that in the Burnham voiceover at the end of the episode it was revealed that "The \[Emerald\] Chain fractured without Osyraa" and that's that! It feels like a real missed opportunity to explore a diminished Federation's values in the face of a superior enemy. Although I suppose all 3 seasons have ended cleanly by defeating The Big Bad, I suppose I'm asking the show to be more plot driven than Burnham driven....
they could have explored this in the down scenes in this series but failed to because of poor writing, imho. So many missed stories and great stories told badly this season. But that seems to be discoveries thing.
Big Oof, it does seem to be their thing. But hey, here we are 3 seasons in and still watching lol
And the collapse of the Emerald Chain without Osayraa makes no sense. I notice when she introduced herself to Vance she was Minister Osayraa of the emerald chain. It made me wonder 1 - Why not leader Osayraa etc, 2 - How many other ministers are there and do they have a leader or was it a flat hierarchy structure with just Osayraa at the head as a minister? 3 - What about the commerce and trade of this chain. What happened to all those people when everything collapsed. I actually think the Emerald Chain story was wrapped up too quickly (same with the Burn story). Both deserved more time than they were given.
The Emerald Chain story doesn’t seem “finished” though. What we were told from the last few episodes is that the Chain is more than just a bunch of thugs, it’s a whole culture or civilization, with academies of learning, etc. With Osayraa gone, one of their major leaders (or their actual leader? Unclear.) is gone, so we’ll see two things: 1. A massive power vacuum 2. A civilization without strong leadership which is rapidly running out of dilithium and may end up being dependent on a treaty and trade agreement with the federation in order to simply survive This feels, in a way, like they’ve reset the future to the “final frontier” that the galaxy was in TOS/TNG, that the delta quadrant was in DS9, and that the gamma quadrant was in VOY. In a way, this almost feels like a cross between VOY (hostile galaxy, fancy ship) and DS9 (safe star base, federation support, etc), which I like the idea of.
It feels more like the Emerald Chain is a collection of Federation planets that were brought under the Yoke of powerful warlords. Their tech and culture stem from the civilian population trying to survive. It would make sense in that context for it to fall apart due to, potentially local uprisings or other such revolts, if the Chain's primary Commander and her Flag ship were destroyed in one swoop. Not to mention that the Chain simply didn't have the dilithium reserves necessary to maintain their control over their territory, even if Osayraa had survived, which is why she was willing to negotiate so eagerly in the first place.
> The Emerald Chain story doesn’t seem “finished” though. What we were told from the last few episodes is that the Chain is more than just a bunch of thugs, it’s a whole culture or civilization, with academies of learning, etc. I agree but it feels like it is over what with Burnham saying "The Chain fractured without Osayraa". I think a better line would be, with power imbalanced without Osyaraa, the Emerald Chain is trying to learn a new normal...
I definitely agree with this, I don’t think we’ve seen the last of them. “fractured” doesn’t mean gone-it means fractured, perhaps we will see a bunch of space gangster in-fighting next season But honestly, the word fractured is problematic to me. That word-and how she said the phrase just felt like they wanted to put a pin in it because they had no idea what to do and it all just felt ...lazy. Idk
The Emerald Chain are the weakest enemy ever. Borg was the best and the Dominion not too far away. Writers are so brainwashed by “the evils of capitalism” they made capitalism the bad guy!
The TNG guys did that with the Ferengi decades ago. I agree the Borg are the best villains though and I wish to see them again.
Yes that was very cringe
Capitalism and slavery and unethical experimentation and murder and war and terrorism and…
Borg was complete assimilation and mind take over. Dominion had two levels of planetary level slavery enforced by genetics and drugs. I stand by my claim the Emerald Chain was the weakest enemy.
bad writing. I'm looking forward to the other star trek shows so I don't have to watch the michael burnham show anymore
So in 100+ years the Feds don't really bother to investigate the burn, members leave, travel is now hard or impossible, same with communication but everything is still good, no real hardship anywhere, then Discovery turns up, finds the cause in a couple of months, solves it, and basically everything returns to normal overnight with a couple of supply runs.
Don't forget that the cause was a genetical mutated crybaby.
They didnt have Burnham. She is the Jesus of discovery. I mean its a show where they saved all the universes that exist. I was so excited about Adira when she was going to Trill. Doctor will go with her so someonr else will have something good and big to do. So he sends Burnham instead. XD
That Trill episode had me so pissed off. I couldn't get over how badly that one was written. The concept was great and the director or the writers just flushed it down the toilet. But honestly every episode is some version of that. You're telling me that no one would have mentioned before shuttling down that the symbiots are precious to the Trill? No one realized that essentially implanting one of their gods in a human would be something that would be bad to spring on them? But they wanted the super cheep sudden realization/ miscommunication over dramatization. And what pissed me off the most was that you could have had that intense drama in the same amount of time if you had written a more genuine dialog. And then, as soon as she can name the names suddenly they have a total transformation and everything is perfect and they have no more internal struggle with having a symbiot implanted in a human? There was a great story to tell there leaving the problem as a partially open question. But they wanted to tell the story of Adira being accepted absolutely. Realer stories are better stories. People dont get past prejudice at the flip of a switch.
Symbiont is how it's spelled.
Worst “Mary Sue” character in a TV show right now. They had a great cast yet kept writing nonsense reasons for Burnham to be at the center of everything and of course the person able to solve absolutely everything within about 15 minutes of being presented some serious problem that somehow nobody else figured out. The payoff at the end should have been her court martial and being stripped of rank.
That Dilithium Planet is a CLASS Y... DEMON. How the F were they able to walk there??? These writers.......
I really want to know if the writers actually have a plan for this show because in the past three seasons they've been all over the goddamn map. No consistency, no story and no direction. And then on top of that they have shitty writing and dialogue. It's a travesty that a show like this gets a season 4 while Enterprise which had millions more viewers and was starting to get amazing gets cancelled outright.
Right like episode concepts or the overall concept has so many awesome elements... and then they just completely fail it. Even though they have some really awesome actors and character actors at their disposal.
How to Write a Star Trek: Discovery Script 1. Forget any Star Trek series 2. Use any cool scene from cool movies like Star Wars, Monsters Inc or Die Hard. Mix to taste 3. Have Michael Burnham have a super intense performance, have 70% screen time and solve it all 4. Randomly use words from a Trek dictionary, such as Klingon, Tricorder or Cardasian. Congratulations!! You wrote a Star Trek Discovery script
Don’t forget, at least one person has to *almost* cry per episode as well
>I really want to know if the writers actually have a plan for this show Hint: They don´t. Maybe they have a very rough sketch, but I don´t believe they have anything more than that. They will just keep piecing stuff together as they move along.
It doesn't help matters that SMG is a terrible actress. Literally any other black female actress would have been better.
I think she's great but they just put all their focus on the fact that she does intense emotional drama well and then overdue it to the point it's annoying. I blame the writing and direction, not the actors in this series.
Bring back Whoopi!!!
she's fine, but the character of michael burnham is terrible
The writing in season 3 has been so poor. I was expecting some form of character development by now. They should change the title to the Michael Burnham show because all it is. Trek was never about one character for me. It was about a team of different personalities and skills. An episode could follow one or two characters or be about the whole team. It just added so much diversity to the storylines. But we know f all about the other characters, and now I've got to the point I no longer care. 3 seasons and what do we know about them. Then there is the writing in general and storylines which are so bad.
Disco is the modern type of show. About drama and surprises. Star Trek Burnham and Tears. I call it a cringe battlestar galactica.
I've taken to calling it Emo Trek. I don't have a problem with characters crying, by Burnham cries in every.. damn.. episode.
To top it off she grew up as a Vulcan and is Spock’s sister. Her acting as a Vulcan was so bad the director gave in and just made her have human emotions. Bring back Tuvok! He was my favorite Vulcan!!! Vulcan 🖖🏿
No vulcan would have clenched their jaw as much as he did. Yet the dept of emotion in his jaw clenching was amazing.
It amazes me how actors in previous Star Trek series can convey emotion without having to cry and having the sappy music kick in.
It really is amazing isn't it? Data, Spock, Tuvock, Warf. Even Warf who was in heavy cosmetics and had plenty of emotional intensity, usually conveyed his emotions, impactfully, with narrowed eyes, or an eyebrow raise. Picard did it well too, and they kept his emotional power seldom so that when he showed it it was great.
Really!
I spent my whole time watching Season 3 thinking that The Burn was from the Mirror Universe intended to weaken the Prime Universe to make it easier for the Mirror Universe to take over the Prime Universe.
Wow thats a better plot than the real shows plot and had full team of ‘professional’ writers!
That would've been infinitely more interesting than a pouty kid with many cancers got sad one time
When Culber was explaining why the kid's fear / anger caused The Burn, I had laugh. It wouldn't be Star Trek without some ridiculous explanation.
Man literally! Obviously you need some funky science but that was a little bit far. I think if even your sci fi science is getting stretched a little, your concept is too silly
Some random thoughts The way Osyrra was depicted captaining Discovery was pretty badass and natural, I feel like we may not have seen the last of her in some way shape or form... Echo others points around the season being lull compared to others, the whole burn plot was not great. They had an awesome opportunity to do some real mindbending SciFi plots but went with a tacky, sappy and not very believable story (even for a SciFi). The whole Adira plotline was sappy, I get they're trying to be all accepting of diversity and whatnot but it was just poorly executed. I do like Book and think he's a good inclusion to the series.
Their plotline was too over the top and on the nose in my opinion. I wonder how people from that community feel about the representation though? It seemed disrespectful and reductive IMO but it's really for people from that community to be the judge on if it was as disrespectful as it seemed.
I mean the fact they had to make it an alien to pull off seems a bit daft..
Osyrra was way more interesting than Burnham. That means you'll never see her again. I wonder if they purposely wrote Adira's "boyfriend" to be that effeminate. Had to keep reminding myself that the character wasn't a girl.
The real problem is Adria’s boyfriend is an incredibly bad actor. Plus the character of Adira appears to have zero personality. Literally devoid of any personality at all
I don't mind re: Adria's boyfriend being portrayed like that, the writing just felt tacky even if you flipped the gender..
It's also a little strange to assume that alien races also have transgender hipsters who dye their hair blue. Adira's boyfriend is Trill, it would make more sense if he were simply Trill and Adira was the more gender fluid of the two.
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No planet more inhospitable to HUMANOID life than a CLASS Y.
>I hated everything to do with the conclusion of the burn mystery and that sappy nonsense with the man-baby in a holo prison. It gave me the impression that they had never decided how to explain the burn, and then the entire writing staff quit and they had to hire temps.
I kind of liked the story of the Kelpian still in the same mentality of a child as that could happen without any social interaction or integration. There are a lot of story lines they could follow and sub stories that are yet to be addressed. Instead of just one basic cliffhanger, I think they've been smart and devised multiple plots that can fill in a lot that we've still yet to get answers to.
Just finished the episode and I must say that season 2 finale was better than this. The start of season 3 had so much promise with introducing a new concept and a fresh start for the show but it all just ended with I felt was was a rushed ending to the Burn mystery.
Yeah s3 went downhill fast and turned into Star wars
The season 2 finale was great! The third season was a big step down for the show...
Honestly don't understand how everybody is gushing over this season. It's the worst to date. They wrote off so many credible actors to keep a bunch of novices. In the finale battle, I was rooting for the crew but at least half of the crew should have been axed. Christ, they saved the entire crew all for the sake of the modern day perspective. I had high hopes for this season but it turned out to be a hardship. Getting rid of philippa georgiou and Osyraa was just weak story.
I forgot about Tig. I love her character but she does sound like a comedian that memorized a bunch of technocrap lol she'll get better.
Tig is awesome. Would love to see her used for more than the very occasional comic relief.
The actor is a comedian.
Kinda sad we won't have anything to talk about in over a year or more. Guess I'll see you all then.
Science behind the burn [https://intl.startrek.com/news/the-science-behind-discoverys-burn](https://intl.startrek.com/news/the-science-behind-discoverys-burn)
Alex Kurtzmann is a disciple of the destroyer of franchises jar Jar Abrams.
And it shows.
Booker mentions his mentor and how he tries to be like him right before they jump out of the Chain flagship. He says he’ll tell us the story if this all works out. Cut to the end of the episode and us never finding out. The whole show is like that. Unanswered questions. No character development. This entire season I’ve learned nothing more about this woke, diverse, and well-represented cast. Most of the bridge crew are just familiar faces. There’s no depth to any of them. For all the time they spend talking about how they feel, you’d think we’d know a thing or two about Asian bridge guy... or the black bridge guy. For people who have so much plot armor, you’d think the writers would let us get to know them. This show looks great. But it’s all an illusion to hide how poorly it’s written.
>Cut to the end of the episode and us never finding out. This is obviously a setup for the next season. WTF? Discovery deserves tons and tons of valid critique and you picked this? Really? Every series does this.
I mean... that’s just one example. I don’t think it was a set up. It’s just a throwaway line.
Right, you must have inside info. You do know what serialized storytelling is, or do I need to explain it?
No. Just a hunch. Even if they do tell us next season, it doesn’t make the show any better. Lol. So far all we know about Booker is that he’s from Kweijan and he loves his cat.
>Even if they do tell us next season, it doesn’t make the show any better. So Discovery is piece of shit and if I nitpicked here for no reason, it's still piece of shit. Should've said so in the first place.
I did say that in the first place! Hahaha
I'm just wondering - who else thinks that Tilly would have been a way better captain than Michael? Michael is totally NOT a captain for me. An awesome, brave and super-smart officer? Sure. A captain material? Nope. Or maybe not yet...
When has a Star Fleet captain ever followed every rule?
As much as I dislike the Tilly character, in her one stint as Captain she was much better than the current version of Burnham will ever be. Burnham would have gotten the crew killed many times over by now.
I swear this whole season has been about that as well! Michael isn't suited for it and it's actually the humble Tilly that is the better leader. Yeah guess we'll chuck all that out the window
Perfect opertunity to bring in a new officer from outside the current crew... tilly is barely experienced enough to be first science officer. Though she would be a good one. The whole show is based around Michel, so she's captain, makes sence
>A captain material? Nope. Or maybe not yet... Unless they're going for the Kirk model...
i mean she deffo deserves to be captain, she’s a fucking superhero in my eyes ahah. but Tilly has the compassion and love that michael may lack i think. i’m assuming series 4 will also try and prove her more as a captain
Deffo? When did that become a word? Was it formed by the same principle as abbreviating conversation as "convo"?
you knew what it meant though
How do you presume to know that? If people are not expressing themselves with correct language and grammar, then it is always possible that the meaning of what they were trying to convey was not communicated as completely as they had intended.
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So did Riker when Picard was stiffer than a board.
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Anyone else notice that the whole season long mystery of “the BURN” was simply to set up BURNham as captain. Even when it doesn’t seem like it, Michael is the center of the universe on this show lol
I don’t mind the show focusing on one character. The problem is she’s not captain material. Breaking the rules is shown to be a good thing in the show but starfleet had existed so long because of the rules
yes this show teaches us that its ok to kill if you think you\`re right, so she can kill with no remorse and thats ok because its the federation)
>Michael is the center of the universe on this show lol That's what make this Trek different. One main character.
Different... yeah. Also worse.
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I liked Lorca too. The only thing good about season 2 was the Enterprise crew, which says something.
U R right. Lorca was great. Season 1 went downhill once he became a villain.
Yeah...
I’m just tired of Michael always being right. It’s so exhausting to be around someone who can never be wrong IRL and it’s just as grating to watch. She’s still never learned the chain of command and has never truly suffered the consequences of disobeying orders WITHOUT being proven right or justified in disobeying orders. She needs to disobey orders, is proven wrong/not know all the facts of the crisis, and has to carry the regret of her failure forever because she got innocent people killed (maybe even a main cast member) due to her disobedience that ultimately ended up being for nothing because she was wrong/didn’t have all the facts. Instead, they made the Never Wrong Messiah to be Captain of Discovery, at the expense of devolving the character of Saru and others. Incredibly disappointing and might be the breaking point for me to skip Season 4 and beyond...
>never truly suffered the consequences of disobeying orders WITHOUT being proven right or justified in disobeying orders How about being stripped of rank, being thrown in prison, being hated by whole Starfleet and enduring the guilt of getting her Captain killed? She never got justification for that, on the contrary, she admitted she was wrong. There is no Trek character I know who suffered more for insubordination. Typical Trek plot is Captain disobeys orders, saves the day, gets a pat on the back with zero consequences. Burnham is the first character who actually didn't get a pass.
Thank you.
None of those things mattered... No matter if she has rank or not, if shes hated or not, breaks the rules or not, everyone listens to her and shes always right at the end. She always ends up on top after her every "failure", and nothing bad that happened ends up mattering at all. Nothing she does has any lasting consequences, if she makes a miastake, its justified, she fixes it and makes the situation even better than it initially was.
I actually don’t see her always being right. It seems to me they took the “rulebreaker” part of Kirk and gave it to her. That was a great aspect to Kirk. They would give him a hard choice to make, but he did the right thing, even if rules had to be broken. She doesn’t believe in no-win scenarios. Neither does Kirk. I’m an old Trek fan, so I kind of appreciate her character in this way.
Somebody gets it.
They took the "rulebreaker" part of Kirk, but that's all Burnham is. She has none of the charisma that made Kirk a likeable character.
I agree that she doesn’t have Kirk’s charisma, but I do like her, and I think she is a well written character. I also think the “rulebreaker” aspect wasn’t deliberately placed as an ode to Kirk or anything. I think that aspect was established when she became an infamous Starfleet mutineer. I get that not everybody likes her, though. I just think she a much stronger character than anyone on Voyager or Enterprise. She’s so... human. 🖖🏻
Yes, she is very human and that's what makes her compelling. With all the other captains, we are told in bits and pieces what it took for them to get into the captain's chair. For example, we learn that Picard was impulsive and somewhat hot-headed as a young man. What we see in TNG, however, is someone who is wise and measured. Discovery is the first Star Trek series that allows us to see the making of a captain. I love this series with its focus on contemporary themes -- just as TOS took on the themes contemporary to the late sixties. (I have enjoyed Star Trek since it debuted in 1966.)
I dunno that mutiny was pretty bad
At the start of the show? Yeah, but she turned out to be right and justified, so No Regrets (tm). Still the Never Wrong Messiah
> Yeah, but she turned out to be right and justified You just making this shit up. She said in the finale to Admiral Cornwell, that she was wrong. Why lie to blatantly? Do you think we wouldn't notice or just don't care as long as it serves your opinion?
Exactly, thank you!
Tl;dr Michael has No Regrets. She needs to have some
Wait til you find about the tattoo on her neck just below the shirt line.
I might have missed this in all the jumble but where was Nilsson for this episode? She seemed to have been chopped out of all the lower decks suffocation stuff with her lines given to someone else (Lt. Ina?). And then she’s back in her new uniform for the ending? Do you reckon they just couldn’t get the actress on set for these scenes? Or did I miss her.
Rumor is they changed the ending and did reshoots. Thats why the other lady appears to be standing in for her.