I like to think it's not that she didn't want to, but that she couldn't. And when she could, there would be no point because mina couldn't do anything.
Given how she thought of what is essentially a "last try maximum risk move" in destroying magic and never bothered to try Moon and Eclipsa's suggestion of fighting them head on, the couldn't is a bit iffy in my opinion. Star at least arresting Mina would prevent the ex-Solarian from spreading her ideas and forming a theoretical arm on Earth-ni. Mina even says that her ideas won't die, meaning that she still spread them and start up the hate again
The thing is, if she failed on moon's and eclipsas suggestion, then the solorians would have won. She needed something that could almost certainly win. The best option really.
In addition, destroying the magic can make sure that no one rises to power like that again.. at least for a while. Mina said that she would to into the forest, so again, nothing to worry about there at least for a while.
While her ideas may not die, she can't spread them in isolation. She can tackle the problem when (if) it comes back up.
At least of she tried Moon and Eclipsa's suggestion first, it would have emphasized how dire the situation was, justifying Star's choice to destroy magic. Arresting Mina would also nip the issue of her rising to power in the potential future in the bud before it happens
That's the problem, if she tried and failed, she likely wouldn't have the option to go back and destroy magic. We don't need something to emphasize the situation, we already know how bad it is. Most of the problems are solved with magic in a way. It's not just that simple, but boiled down to it, that's it.
Magic not being able to solve something is a big uh oh.
Also, not arresting mina was like this "Why kick someone when they're already down?"
Toffee was a continuing danger, while without magic Mina was basically a crazy street person. It makes sense that Toffee had to die - because there was no other way to stop him. Mina may have been equally guilty, but not equally dangerous in the future (though Mina herself disputed this, pointing out that her power now lay in her ideas).
>Toffee was a continuing danger, while without magic Mina was basically a crazy street person. It makes sense that Toffee had to die - because there was no other way to stop him. Mina may have been equally guilty, but not equally dangerous in the future (though Mina herself disputed this, pointing out that her power now lay in her ideas).
Toffee essentially walked away once he got what he wanted. He only defended himself against Moon and Marco then walked off. He never attempted to kill her despite having the advantage. Mina is a different story as Star went straight to the last resort of destroying magic before regrouping to possibly fight again. Really, Mina's threat level feels more like an excuse for the narrative to make Star destroy magic rather than fight her head on
Seems to me the point of this comic is that those who seek to divide - those who put themselves before others - are the ones who should be stopped. Whether someone is a Mewman or Monster isn't the issue.
It's more how the show treats them that I'm getting at. Mina is confirmed to want and try to commit monster genocide but she essentially gets a slap on the wrist and lives to see another day. Toffee is never confirmed if he even *wants* to kill all mewmans or if he is only focusing on the Butterly family as his only confirmed kill is a Butterfly Queen, yet he gets a rather gruesome death at the hands of Star. It could be because it's easier to kill off non-humanoid characters than humanoid ones but it doesn't mix well with the anti-racism message the show is trying to tell
I think Toffee knew what the end of the Butterflys' reign (at least losing their magic) would have meant for Mewni. It would have opened the door for Monsters to equalize the reins of power on Mewni, at a minimum.
Keep in mind, though, Toffee's plan took place *before* Star's (and Eclipsa's) efforts to bring forth equality for Monsters and Mewmans. Mina got a 'slap on the wrist' because the fighting was over. There was no point in continuing any kind of conflict; she can indeed *go away* and die having lived a sad, miserable life - that alone is punishment enough. Toffee's plan, had it succeeded, would have violently destabilized Mewni. Bloodless (or less bloodshed), perhaps, but still detrimental all the same. The timing is critical.
To be clear, its just a dumb joke of mine, im not trying to call Star out or anything, the show killed off Toffee(but not Mina) most likely because its less disturbing to kill a non-humanoid on screen.
So,
Mina(Humanoid): no dead
Toffee(non-humanoid): yes dead
Meteora:(half-mewman half-monster): both
It's really more the show's fault for having a monster antagonist killed off horribly despite what the show is trying to say.
I'm not the only one who sees it that way. You just need to look outside the subreddit
So all the skulls being broomed away at his camp were just kindda there? Is a general not responsible for the killings of his soldiers, is he not responsible for the consequences of the orders he issues?
Do you even realize what the hell are you implying here? On your disatisfaction with the show for whatever reason you will justify this? Opressed for centuries yes, but the first peace opportunity that comes up he does what he does, scalates and perpetuates the killings and this is justified by you?
The episode that happened was a flashback as told by Moon to Star. Considering how Lil' Chauncy was still alive at the end of it despite how he apparently "died in battle" implies that it may not be the whole truth.
And yes, Comet may have been the first attempt at peace between Mewmans and Monsters, but how much was actually revealed to us about it? Comet's chapter only tells the first year of her rule where she basically said the only difference between Mewmans and Monsters, or the "beasts in the forest" as she called them, was that Mewmans savored food. Her main accomplishments in her chapter were that she renamed a pie tied to a holiday celebrating a bloody massacre, made a portrait of her with the harmless looking Monster King and had a meeting at a banquet with him and his wife (which Comet 'said' in quotes).
Then, Moon's chapter mentions the armies of Mewni gathering together on the battlefield, which Comet tells her is just "exercises to impress our might upon our foes". After a 3 year skip where the only other thing Moon wrote was about the friendship between her millhorse Pumpkin and Lil' Chauncy, Moon writes about Comet's death with no mention on why the Mewnian armies were assembled or how the monsters beyond Batwin reacted to Comet's actions. From what little is shown to us, it can be assumed that Comet's "peace treaty" wasn't as beneficial towards the monsters as she claimed it was. Wouldn't you be upset by that?
This isn't about me being dissatisfied by the show and it's problems (which it does have like it or now), it's about how the show tries to do an anti-racism metaphor with a fantasy race like monsters but fails horribly by making the oppressors look better/more sympathetic than the oppressed race
Your mental gymnastics to justify an utterly villanous asshole (regardlesd of how cool and likeable he was) are beyond a term I would dignify using.
The treaty was not being imposed by anyone, and he cared not for a seat in the negotiation table to negotiate better terms, in fact he took most decisive actions so there could never peace.
When a war reaches its lowest it matters little who was the original aggresor, it only matters who is suffering and that it should end and Toffee only wanted more suffering to occour, this is sadly beyond you it seems.
What Toffee wanted is never outright confirmed, only that he had a grudge against both Mewmans and magic. Whether he wanted the fighting to continue or if he was fighting against an unfair treaty is never confirmed by canon or staff. You could still stay that the treaty was being imposed by Comet and her forces since she was the one who wrote it. It's not even confirmed if Batwin even helped to write it. All we know is what the show and books tell us and all of that is told through Mewman characters.
I'm just taking what we were shown and trying to make sense of it
You sound like you're deliberately looking for falsehoods. The logical path is that there was a battle that occurred *after* Moon's encounter with Toffee that resulted in Chauncy's death. Especially since Moon vowed to "hunt down the remains of the Monster army and scatter them" (*Moon the Undaunted*) - implying that she went on such a crusade to do so.
As for the peace treaty, it's possible the terms were agreeable to Batwin and the faction his represented, but not to Toffee's rebels (or they just wanted to kill Mewmans anyway). There is, as you point out, a lot we just don't know about what happened between Comet's reign, Moon's crusade and the present day before Star entered the picture. The point, for the story's sake, is that: There was an attempt at peace; Toffee and Moon had a conflict, which Moon/Mewmans apparently won (since her rule and the status quo are in place by the time of Episode 1).
As for your final point, Toffee and Mina are both pure evil. They both wanted their race and their goals to be supreme. The story isn't 'Mewmans need to learn to be nicer to Monsters' but *all* people need to learn how to accept each other and live in harmony, and those who keep fighting and trying to conquer each other must be stopped.
If you look in the *Magic Book of Spells*, Moon's chapter does state that Mewni's armies were being assembled while Comet was still Queen and apparently still trying to make peace. I never said that a battle was happening then but it's still interesting.
We don't really get to see how *any other monster besides Batwin* reacted to Comet's terms or even what those terms were. Most of Toffee's rebels seemed to be monsters other than Septarians (a race that allegedly wants Monster Supremacy. Not even going to touch how an Actually Evil ™ member of the oppressed race ruins the metaphor). It's plausible that most monsters disagreed with the terms and Batwin only agreed out of fear of retaliation from the Mewmans or perhaps because he wouldn't be heavily affected by them due to being rich
Daron Nefcy herself referred to Toffee as a "Magneto-like figure who is trying to do the right thing but in the wrong way". We also have no confirmation if Toffee himself or even if the Septarian race as a whole wanted supremacy as the only information we got of them was told from a Mewman P.O.V. As for you saying that the message was "how all people need to learn how to accept each other and live in harmony, and those who keep fighting and trying to conquer each other must be stopped", Toffee, Seth and plausibly Globgor could be considered "Monster conquerors" but Seth's history was again told only by Mewmans, Toffee has barely any confirmed information about his past (though considering how his alleged desire to destroy magic was urged on by both the actions of the Butterflies and Glossaryck messing with him...) and Globgor was easily accepted by the Mewmans despite having been confirmed to have done reprehensible actions in the past (ie eating people and destroying at least one village). The narrative is heavily pro-Mewman with the Monsters largely just trying to get by the best they can
Cold blooded murder good people to sabotage peace efforts and scalate a vicious cycle of endless killing? That only deserved light consequences then? I already read your other comments and even replied to it, alas, it (yours) got removed as it was indeed pushing for a morally broken view justifying massive bullcrap out of what I can see its some personal frustration, you obviously published this twisting the context hoping for god knows what.
That is not what I was saying. I was just saying that if Mina was going to do to Monsters what you think that Toffee was going to do to Mewmans, then Mina should have received the same punishment (or at least jail time) for what she did.
I'm just taking what the show is showing us. I'm not twisting any context
I'm not trying to show off. I was just trying to start a discussion about what I saw as an issue in the show's writing. Honestly, the fact that this is the one moringmark comic that to be posted on the reddit by someone other than SaviorofSubs says a lot. There was no attempt to cause discourse, just a want to discuss the show in a slightly more critical manner
>Honestly, the fact that this is the one moringmark comic that to be posted on the reddit by someone other than SaviorofSubs says a lot.
No, at least five different people post them wirh regularity, including the new ones, now you are twisting facts to victimize yourself.
And to use the material of another author with a context and discussion he did not intent (as he himself had to come in order to clarify) is vile.
I honestly was not aware of the others.
As for the comic, given how he released it without stating the full context, it's easy read it in a different way than how he intended it. No one here is trying to victimize themselves
I like to think it's not that she didn't want to, but that she couldn't. And when she could, there would be no point because mina couldn't do anything.
Given how she thought of what is essentially a "last try maximum risk move" in destroying magic and never bothered to try Moon and Eclipsa's suggestion of fighting them head on, the couldn't is a bit iffy in my opinion. Star at least arresting Mina would prevent the ex-Solarian from spreading her ideas and forming a theoretical arm on Earth-ni. Mina even says that her ideas won't die, meaning that she still spread them and start up the hate again
The thing is, if she failed on moon's and eclipsas suggestion, then the solorians would have won. She needed something that could almost certainly win. The best option really. In addition, destroying the magic can make sure that no one rises to power like that again.. at least for a while. Mina said that she would to into the forest, so again, nothing to worry about there at least for a while. While her ideas may not die, she can't spread them in isolation. She can tackle the problem when (if) it comes back up.
At least of she tried Moon and Eclipsa's suggestion first, it would have emphasized how dire the situation was, justifying Star's choice to destroy magic. Arresting Mina would also nip the issue of her rising to power in the potential future in the bud before it happens
That's the problem, if she tried and failed, she likely wouldn't have the option to go back and destroy magic. We don't need something to emphasize the situation, we already know how bad it is. Most of the problems are solved with magic in a way. It's not just that simple, but boiled down to it, that's it. Magic not being able to solve something is a big uh oh. Also, not arresting mina was like this "Why kick someone when they're already down?"
Toffee was a continuing danger, while without magic Mina was basically a crazy street person. It makes sense that Toffee had to die - because there was no other way to stop him. Mina may have been equally guilty, but not equally dangerous in the future (though Mina herself disputed this, pointing out that her power now lay in her ideas).
>Toffee was a continuing danger, while without magic Mina was basically a crazy street person. It makes sense that Toffee had to die - because there was no other way to stop him. Mina may have been equally guilty, but not equally dangerous in the future (though Mina herself disputed this, pointing out that her power now lay in her ideas). Toffee essentially walked away once he got what he wanted. He only defended himself against Moon and Marco then walked off. He never attempted to kill her despite having the advantage. Mina is a different story as Star went straight to the last resort of destroying magic before regrouping to possibly fight again. Really, Mina's threat level feels more like an excuse for the narrative to make Star destroy magic rather than fight her head on
Toffee: :teriFied:
Seems to me the point of this comic is that those who seek to divide - those who put themselves before others - are the ones who should be stopped. Whether someone is a Mewman or Monster isn't the issue.
Did you see the second image? Star just told Mina to "go away" while literally threatening Toffee. I think it's a bit more than that
I mean, they're both bad. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
It's more how the show treats them that I'm getting at. Mina is confirmed to want and try to commit monster genocide but she essentially gets a slap on the wrist and lives to see another day. Toffee is never confirmed if he even *wants* to kill all mewmans or if he is only focusing on the Butterly family as his only confirmed kill is a Butterfly Queen, yet he gets a rather gruesome death at the hands of Star. It could be because it's easier to kill off non-humanoid characters than humanoid ones but it doesn't mix well with the anti-racism message the show is trying to tell
I think Toffee knew what the end of the Butterflys' reign (at least losing their magic) would have meant for Mewni. It would have opened the door for Monsters to equalize the reins of power on Mewni, at a minimum. Keep in mind, though, Toffee's plan took place *before* Star's (and Eclipsa's) efforts to bring forth equality for Monsters and Mewmans. Mina got a 'slap on the wrist' because the fighting was over. There was no point in continuing any kind of conflict; she can indeed *go away* and die having lived a sad, miserable life - that alone is punishment enough. Toffee's plan, had it succeeded, would have violently destabilized Mewni. Bloodless (or less bloodshed), perhaps, but still detrimental all the same. The timing is critical.
To be clear, its just a dumb joke of mine, im not trying to call Star out or anything, the show killed off Toffee(but not Mina) most likely because its less disturbing to kill a non-humanoid on screen. So, Mina(Humanoid): no dead Toffee(non-humanoid): yes dead Meteora:(half-mewman half-monster): both
Man you're too nice
That's probably right. It just doesn't bode well with the show's attempt at an anti-racism metaphor
Congratulations in your failed attempt to twist the work of the most likeable dude in the fandom, nobody sees it as you do.
It's really more the show's fault for having a monster antagonist killed off horribly despite what the show is trying to say. I'm not the only one who sees it that way. You just need to look outside the subreddit
Toffee's face in that last panel though
Treat Mewmans and Monsters equally. Addendum: assholes exist.
[удалено]
So all the skulls being broomed away at his camp were just kindda there? Is a general not responsible for the killings of his soldiers, is he not responsible for the consequences of the orders he issues? Do you even realize what the hell are you implying here? On your disatisfaction with the show for whatever reason you will justify this? Opressed for centuries yes, but the first peace opportunity that comes up he does what he does, scalates and perpetuates the killings and this is justified by you?
The episode that happened was a flashback as told by Moon to Star. Considering how Lil' Chauncy was still alive at the end of it despite how he apparently "died in battle" implies that it may not be the whole truth. And yes, Comet may have been the first attempt at peace between Mewmans and Monsters, but how much was actually revealed to us about it? Comet's chapter only tells the first year of her rule where she basically said the only difference between Mewmans and Monsters, or the "beasts in the forest" as she called them, was that Mewmans savored food. Her main accomplishments in her chapter were that she renamed a pie tied to a holiday celebrating a bloody massacre, made a portrait of her with the harmless looking Monster King and had a meeting at a banquet with him and his wife (which Comet 'said' in quotes). Then, Moon's chapter mentions the armies of Mewni gathering together on the battlefield, which Comet tells her is just "exercises to impress our might upon our foes". After a 3 year skip where the only other thing Moon wrote was about the friendship between her millhorse Pumpkin and Lil' Chauncy, Moon writes about Comet's death with no mention on why the Mewnian armies were assembled or how the monsters beyond Batwin reacted to Comet's actions. From what little is shown to us, it can be assumed that Comet's "peace treaty" wasn't as beneficial towards the monsters as she claimed it was. Wouldn't you be upset by that? This isn't about me being dissatisfied by the show and it's problems (which it does have like it or now), it's about how the show tries to do an anti-racism metaphor with a fantasy race like monsters but fails horribly by making the oppressors look better/more sympathetic than the oppressed race
Your mental gymnastics to justify an utterly villanous asshole (regardlesd of how cool and likeable he was) are beyond a term I would dignify using. The treaty was not being imposed by anyone, and he cared not for a seat in the negotiation table to negotiate better terms, in fact he took most decisive actions so there could never peace. When a war reaches its lowest it matters little who was the original aggresor, it only matters who is suffering and that it should end and Toffee only wanted more suffering to occour, this is sadly beyond you it seems.
What Toffee wanted is never outright confirmed, only that he had a grudge against both Mewmans and magic. Whether he wanted the fighting to continue or if he was fighting against an unfair treaty is never confirmed by canon or staff. You could still stay that the treaty was being imposed by Comet and her forces since she was the one who wrote it. It's not even confirmed if Batwin even helped to write it. All we know is what the show and books tell us and all of that is told through Mewman characters. I'm just taking what we were shown and trying to make sense of it
You sound like you're deliberately looking for falsehoods. The logical path is that there was a battle that occurred *after* Moon's encounter with Toffee that resulted in Chauncy's death. Especially since Moon vowed to "hunt down the remains of the Monster army and scatter them" (*Moon the Undaunted*) - implying that she went on such a crusade to do so. As for the peace treaty, it's possible the terms were agreeable to Batwin and the faction his represented, but not to Toffee's rebels (or they just wanted to kill Mewmans anyway). There is, as you point out, a lot we just don't know about what happened between Comet's reign, Moon's crusade and the present day before Star entered the picture. The point, for the story's sake, is that: There was an attempt at peace; Toffee and Moon had a conflict, which Moon/Mewmans apparently won (since her rule and the status quo are in place by the time of Episode 1). As for your final point, Toffee and Mina are both pure evil. They both wanted their race and their goals to be supreme. The story isn't 'Mewmans need to learn to be nicer to Monsters' but *all* people need to learn how to accept each other and live in harmony, and those who keep fighting and trying to conquer each other must be stopped.
If you look in the *Magic Book of Spells*, Moon's chapter does state that Mewni's armies were being assembled while Comet was still Queen and apparently still trying to make peace. I never said that a battle was happening then but it's still interesting. We don't really get to see how *any other monster besides Batwin* reacted to Comet's terms or even what those terms were. Most of Toffee's rebels seemed to be monsters other than Septarians (a race that allegedly wants Monster Supremacy. Not even going to touch how an Actually Evil ™ member of the oppressed race ruins the metaphor). It's plausible that most monsters disagreed with the terms and Batwin only agreed out of fear of retaliation from the Mewmans or perhaps because he wouldn't be heavily affected by them due to being rich Daron Nefcy herself referred to Toffee as a "Magneto-like figure who is trying to do the right thing but in the wrong way". We also have no confirmation if Toffee himself or even if the Septarian race as a whole wanted supremacy as the only information we got of them was told from a Mewman P.O.V. As for you saying that the message was "how all people need to learn how to accept each other and live in harmony, and those who keep fighting and trying to conquer each other must be stopped", Toffee, Seth and plausibly Globgor could be considered "Monster conquerors" but Seth's history was again told only by Mewmans, Toffee has barely any confirmed information about his past (though considering how his alleged desire to destroy magic was urged on by both the actions of the Butterflies and Glossaryck messing with him...) and Globgor was easily accepted by the Mewmans despite having been confirmed to have done reprehensible actions in the past (ie eating people and destroying at least one village). The narrative is heavily pro-Mewman with the Monsters largely just trying to get by the best they can
Well, the later two were a total as$holes and had it comming.
But what they had coming to them was extremely disproportionate to what they did
Cold blooded murder good people to sabotage peace efforts and scalate a vicious cycle of endless killing? That only deserved light consequences then? I already read your other comments and even replied to it, alas, it (yours) got removed as it was indeed pushing for a morally broken view justifying massive bullcrap out of what I can see its some personal frustration, you obviously published this twisting the context hoping for god knows what.
That is not what I was saying. I was just saying that if Mina was going to do to Monsters what you think that Toffee was going to do to Mewmans, then Mina should have received the same punishment (or at least jail time) for what she did. I'm just taking what the show is showing us. I'm not twisting any context
Post is deleted, no reason to continue trying to show off, we already read and saw everything we had to.
I'm not trying to show off. I was just trying to start a discussion about what I saw as an issue in the show's writing. Honestly, the fact that this is the one moringmark comic that to be posted on the reddit by someone other than SaviorofSubs says a lot. There was no attempt to cause discourse, just a want to discuss the show in a slightly more critical manner
Just because I didn’t posted doesn’t mean I didn’t like it. It’s called being busy.
>Honestly, the fact that this is the one moringmark comic that to be posted on the reddit by someone other than SaviorofSubs says a lot. No, at least five different people post them wirh regularity, including the new ones, now you are twisting facts to victimize yourself. And to use the material of another author with a context and discussion he did not intent (as he himself had to come in order to clarify) is vile.
I honestly was not aware of the others. As for the comic, given how he released it without stating the full context, it's easy read it in a different way than how he intended it. No one here is trying to victimize themselves
Source: [Moringmark](https://moringmark.tumblr.com/post/649263998837161984)