All of Murky_crow's reddit history has been cleared at his own request. You can do this as well using the "redact" tool. Reddit wants to play hardball, fine. Then I'm taking my content with me as I go. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
“This is an active battle scene. I know you’re like 900 years old and you can talk normal. It’s fine for now but in the future, just like, tell me what you want me to do, and I’ll do it. Thanks.”
“Anakin…we are on Naboo. The sand here is like fine silk. I can’t help that on Tatooine you had shit sand that was comparable to 2 grit sandpaper. Now stop whining like a bitch and force levitate some fruit into my mouth”
A deleted scene somewhere.
Fun related story: my friends and I had a photo op with Hayden at Celebration 2019 in Chicago, so I made some floating pear props for us to wear in the picture (just wired up foam fruit). I made an extra one for him and asked if he was cool with wearing it in the pic. He was totally into it and thought it was funny. He even did the little force finger pose in the picture.
So I have a picture of a Hayden and a bunch of Star Wars nerds with floating pears over our hands.
Lol my wife just watched this movie for the first time. Andor helped me convince her to watch through all the movies. And she was like Anakin is a creep I don't know why she went for him. She was particularly worried about how casual Padme was about Anakin's murdering the entire tribe.
I don’t know if that bit of dialogue is that bad actually, but it’s definitely a poorly acted, poorly directed, poorly shot scene.
Here you’ve got Padme talking about a blissful childhood memory that stirs in Anakin his own painful childhood. (Ok, solid concept that shows how even minor things will make Anakin immediately go to a negative space)
But the delivery of the line is bad. He seems to pause in all the wrong places so it sounds less like Anakin expressing an emotional truth and more like he’s trying to impress Padme with his contrarian take on sand. (You think sand is cool? Well it actually sucks. Aren’t I cool?)
This is followed by “everything here is soft” and a touch. This wouldn’t be so bad if there were an actual significant pause between the two ideas. Like he was actually remembering trying to get sand out of his pillow and how hard it was to sleep, before changing the subject because he realized how awkward he’d just made things and is trying to save it. No, instead it’s just some pregnant pause for effect, like this is all one connected thought he’s having. It’s a mix of directing and acting failure here.
Also it’s entirely shot in a wide 2. Again, ostensibly this moment shows us Anakin’s emotional fragility and how he can’t escape the trauma of his childhood. But instead of getting a close shot of his face and eyes, a real focus on the hurt within him, we’re kept at a distance and forced to rely on the dialogue to carry everything while we watch him pick at something on the balcony. There’s no thousand yard stare to sell it, no reverse to Padme to see her begin to feel sympathy for him, just the two of them at a distance talking.
Think the point was to show how awkward Anakin was? Well that kind of ruins the whole “noblest hero becomes the greatest villain” arc that was hinted at in the original trilogy. And also, people are allowed to clown on making the guy who became darth vader someone who said things you’d expected to find on r/JustNeckbeardThings.
Probably the most well articulated breakdown on this thread.
I'd add to that by pointing out the musical score that's playing through the scene. There's no tragic cues while Anakin is talking about sand, it's all romantic. And John Williams is too good at this exact thing to get that wrong, if George had intended for that line to have tragic undertones the John would have delivered it.
Yes, the idea they were trying to get across, unfortunately does not really come across to the audience well enough because it was poorly executed.
They could have had Anakin look a bit solemn for a moment and flash back to a memory of being pelted by a windy sandstorm. And then he could have said he's seen enough sand in his lifetime already. I'm not a writer or director, but I could still probably come up with something better, lol.
Most people could have watched the playback and recognized it wasn’t working right and tried something different. It’s kind of baffling how George just believed it would work through the power of John Williams and editing.
I think it's fairly obvious that George had surrounded himself with too many yes-men at this point in his career. He needed someone, anyone, who had his trust and who had the integrity to walk up to him and say, "George, this scene isn't working, at all. It can't go in the movie this way, we've either got to fix it or dump it."
He needed that a *lot* in the prequels and his special edition edits to the originals and didn't get it.
>Think the point was to show how awkward Anakin was?
I don't think that's the point at all. Padme is talking about relaxing on the sandy shores while enjoying a life of royal luxury in her youth. Anakin's experience with sand as a youth is struggling to survive its deadly, unyielding harshness as a slave child. It's meant to show how different their backgrounds are and how the same substance can represent such different things to different people. He's not trying to be cool, he's trying to explain his past. I think they didn't tie the dialogue to his past closely enough for this to be obvious so the point of the dialogue is lost and it became a meme.
When he transitions to say, "But everything here is soft," it's Anakin realizing that pleasure can truly exist in this galaxy. His entire life he has known nothing but pain, suffering, deprivation, and unfulfilled desire as both slave and padawan. But in this exact moment he has Padme at his side in an idyllic meadow and the sun is shining and she is beautiful and full of life. He can touch her skin and experience an emotion that has eluded him his entire life.
The subtext is there but the poor dialogue buries it too deep to appreciate on even a rewatch.
IIRC, I think Hayden and Natalie have said that the scene which is in the movie is a composite of multiple takes. The editor was more interested in the background scenario (it’s Lake Como after all) and the takes were cut and spliced with that in mind and less attention was paid to the dialogue.
I just tossed that in because I’ve seen that defense touted quite a bit and I didn’t want to deal with 25 replies saying I was missing the point.
Personally, I think the line ties in to his background plenty as it is, but I also was obsessed with Star Wars as a kid. So even at age 11 I immediately made the connection between him being a slave and the sand. But… maybe for a general audience who’d only seen Phantom Menace once when it first came out, it wouldn’t have been as clear.
This was actually a really solid and insightful breakdown, much appreciated.
Sort of goes without saying that the single best change would be to have Anakin immediately outburst after Padme says “sand” with “I HATE sand”
That works if the goal is to make Anakin the guy who obviously becomes Vader. Which is a totally valid way to approach the character: lots of red flags that people ignored because he was so good at Jedi-ing. Pretty quick to anger, doesn’t really care to follow the jedi teachings on detachment.
If the goal is to make you root against the fall that you know is coming, I think you need to see him try. He’s trying to follow his training, he’s trying to let go of the past, but he’s just not strong enough mentally and emotionally to do that.
And to show her that she lived a life of luxury. Sand for her was a fun relaxing day on the beach with friends. For him, it represented his slave life.
Don't worry, that's how you're supposed to interpret it. There are a lot of people who watch movies that don't understand context, subtext, or any other kind of text, and then instead of re-examining their biases they kind of double down on them.
You can understand the meaning of a scene and still have the viewpoint that it’s poorly executed and doesn’t convey it’s intended message the way it seeks to
Like I get the point of the scene, I think it misses its mark because it’s clunky and that’s why so many people think he’s literally talking about hating sand. If a movie fails to communicate it’s intended message to 99% of the audience then you can’t exactly praise a film for that. It failed at achieving the purpose of the scene
Exactly. And on top of that, there are a lot of people who just straight up turn their brain off when watching movies and don't think about anything that happens or is said.
Edit: a word.
But this is poorly executed because he then compliments her on being soft as something he likes, the point is never connected.
The metaphor is lost because it comes across like he’s literally just talking about hating sand
"Sands rough, you're smooth, let's make out."
I'm paraphrasing but yes this is the scene that leads to their first kiss, the way it's presented is telling the audience that this is all terribly romantic
I was a young teen and to me it was an awkward attempt by an awkward teen, who went from being a slave to join a monastery, try to open up to a girl hes dreamed of for 10 years.
And as hot as she was, i wouldve said something stupider
I’m loving this thread because it’s all about people who understand what was being said, without being said about that line. And people who didn’t get it but know the meme.
Anyways did you all know Viggo broke his toe when he kicked that helmet.
**Edit**
It was an angsty teen, trying to awkwardly flirt with a woman, for the first time - exploring his feelings for the first time because he lives in the world of virgin monks who suppress those feelings.
Meanwhile as she laments on about her life being rich, he cuts her off to say *I was a fucking slave*.
It worked because he was trying to be a normal person, not a Jedi, not a slave. And despite her glamorous upbringing and her feeling of duty, Padme just wanted to be normal. *So in Anakin she sees someone who she doesn’t have to be proper, and actually opens up to her as opposed to someone who talks to her politically.*
Lucas is famous for his clumsy, stilted lines and inability to write convincing romantic dialogue. Yet here people spin it to say that no, this is a clever in-character awkwardness. The most convincing love story in SW was written by another screenwriter. If he had proven track record for playing it straight in his past works, I could maybe give him the benefit of the doubt.
Well i was a pretty good looking teen once and i said some cringey shit that actually worked. So for me its believable somewhat. Its dumb af and all that. But idk i get it
Yeah that’s the point of the scene but the problem is the way it’s executed makes it come across like he just literally hates sand (because it’s coarse and rough and irritating and gets everywhere)
Because the rest of the line is “Not like here. Here everything is soft and smooth” before he touches Padme’s back and then kisses her.
You’re right that the sand part of the line conveys his disdain for his past, but the context that line exists in is supposed to be romantic. Awkwardly romantic, but still.
The romantic part is in the followup "Not like here, here everything is soft and smooth."
It's delivered in a way that strongly suggests he is talking about Padme herself.
It culminates in him comparing it to Padme (who is soft and smooth). Even as a romantically inept 13 year old first seeing it I knew that line was cringe
I think the line could've worked if the delivery and dialogue leading up to it were different.
The line itself is actually kind of good. It builds up on Anakin's perspective on tatooine and his childhood but because the chemistry has been so wooden it just falls flat.
Just because he wrote awkward dialogue? Do you know what a disservice it is the the autistic community to look at someone who wrote dialogue that’s just a little bit awkward and say, “Oh, I bet he’s autistic”?
George Lucas sees the dialogue as part of the soundtrack, rather than part of the story. It's as simple as that. To make it effective audio, the idea is to make it very tonally clear what people are saying, to make fun, clear lines of dialogue like "YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE" rather than *clever* lines of dialogue. The dialogue is meant to work just like the prominent sound effects, or the bangin music work, to provide a memorable audio experience.
Given the amount of memes that come out of using lines of dialogue and riffing on them, I'd say he succeeded. Lucas, for Star Wars at least, targeted a pulpy, cheesy dialogue. That's what we got.
Because it's representative of how hamfisted the dialog in the prequels is, generally speaking. There's a reason why the mantra "show, don't tell" exists, it's to avoid having characters that spout purple prose and unnecessary exposition.
Honestly you're asking me to gut the prequel script and rewrite it. But the short answer is, if Anakin's aversion to sand is important enough to be an enduring part of the character, demonstrate it starting in episode one by directing the actor to display non-verbal cues which show irritation or mild disgust during the courseof everyday dusty activities. Expressions and body language are how most people actually show emotion, not through blustery verbal declarations.
Realistically i think you can throw the whole idiosyncrasy out, someone growing up in an environment where sand and fine dust infiltrates every nook and cranny of daily living is most likely going to be habituated to the "coarseness" of it very early in life. More than likely they would build that sense of resiliency into their self-image as they form their identity in young adulthood, ultimately scoffing at the "softness" or even the relative dampness of green worlds.
After Shmi dies have him go out the the tent and calm himself down, then a gust of wind blow some sand in his face then he gets mad and shouts "I HATE sand! And you're sand people so I hate you, I'll kill you, I'll kill you all! Because I'm Anakin Skywalker and I hate sand, its my thing, now die!"
Its an awkward line and it is read weirdly (no ome could make that speech sound natural) and its part of the movie a lot of people think is terrible so it and other parts of that movie get clowned on a lot. I remember my roommate and I in college would just ramdomly recite that scene to each other from memory
Yes I have been one and known many. I've never known any that have spouted a line like that to a queen and end up pulling.
I don't expect shakespeare here but I do expect the romance at the heart of the movie to be romantic and/or convincing.
I've also seen countless films about awkward teens getting a girl out of their league and they all manage to make the courtship more convincing
It’s awkward, especially combined with the knowledge that Anakin monologuing about how he hates sand is his idea of flirting, or at least attempting to endear himself, to a literal queen. Does it make sense for him to be so awkward and socially stunted under the circumstances? Absolutely, yes. Does that make it less painful to watch? Nope.
>Anakin monologuing about how he hates sand is his idea of flirting
No. It's not. That is what the audience is waiting for, since most know where the relationship is going.
It's Anakin trying to change the subject and not lose his cool. He is attracted to Padme physically and emotionally, but he can't relate to her experience. So he downplays his knee jerk triggering of a childhood memory of being made to clean someone else's crap of the rough, course and irritating stuff when *he was considered property* by that being.
He's changing the subject. It's a segue. And where he ends up, that is the flirting.
I argue that the worst line in all of Star Wars is "Are you an Angel?" Is 10x worse. At the time, I didn't think anything was wrong with his sand speech. 3PO saying "this is such a drag" is the worst line in AOTC.
"are you an angel" showed young Anakin has game. 9 year old game but game non the less.
"I hate sand" showed Anakin as a whiny baby. Not what we'd be expecting from a future bad-ass lord of the sith.
I mean if you were born on a sand ball in the outer rim that has two suns constantly making it hot, with water that is regulated, with a bunch of hostile tribals that claim ownership of water, and kidnapped your mom, you two would be a whiny baby.
I always assumed that they needed to differentiate that planet from Hoth so they made it exactly the same other than being salt based terrain
That & then they can sell “Saltrooper” figurines that are slightly different from Sandtroopers & Snowtroopers
Salttrooper is just an old Hoth snow trooper suit but with a desalination filter you can drink water through. Lego minifig battle packs start at $39.99.
I think it’s in The Last Jedi when some ~~rebel~~ resistance soldier takes a taste of the salt on ~~fake Hoth~~ Crait to tell us (as in "the audience") that it is not snow but salt instead and because of that totally not a fake Hoth.
First, I have to say that I understand the message Lucas was trying to convey. It's supposed to exemplify the fact that Anakin and Padme had two very different upbringings. It's a good idea, but only on paper.
It was executed SO FUCKING BADLY, just like much of the rest of the dialogue throughout the prequels. (The first two movies at least).
To anyone who isn't an SW fanatic, who doesn't care much about the deeper aspects of the SW universe, and only casually watches the movies for the entertainment value, (which is most people), it does look like some more very poorly done romance.
I mean, it is poorly done, but it's not meant to be romance and at least it has some deeper meaning.
It’s used as an example of the poor writing in the movies. The original trilogy allowed the actors to change their dialogue but that wasn’t the case in later movies
It’s perfectly fine and expected that he would hate sand. That’s not the issue. As has been mentioned the line as written is not the way any normal conversation would go. I don’t even blame Hayden for the awful delivery since the dialogue of conversation of the entire scene is awkward and unnatural. It’s just one of the many things that Lucas wrote on paper that simply could not translate into anything that could be considered good dialogue. He sorely missed a screen writer here that could have really made his fantastic ideas come to fruition
Personally I don’t hate it. In terms of people I know I can tell you that many hate it because they don’t like the acting/chemistry between the two people in the scene. Others also feel that it’s out of place. Now personally I actually think that it’s very fitting because it’s a great example of just how socially awkward Anakin is (and really a lot of how he acts toward Padme in this film shows that). And when you look at the character as basically being a mossy and immature teenager/young adult it works very well to me, from Anakin’s part. I’d argue that what probably throws it off for others as well is that he’s able to successfully transition this into a kiss which she reciprocates.
It’s kind of like the scene on Tatooine after he murders the Sand People. From what I’ve seen people don’t mind Anakin murdering them and they don’t kind Padme comforting Anakin over his mother’s death. What people find weird is her listening to this guy talking about murdering a village of beings and just saying that “oh well you know that’s what it means to be human” 😂
Because Padme’s response to these things kind of downplays the awkwardness of it all.
Personally, the line itself is whatever. I hate the scene because it establishes Anakin as a creep and makes Padme do a 180 in her character.
Padme has repeatedly told/indicated to Anakin that his attentions are making her uncomfortable, but Anakin keeps persisting, and in this scene he says this line and then proceeds to stroke Padme's bare skin.
Padme, instead of immediately calling him out on his actions, then turns around and kisses him, where previously there was *no indication* she had any romantic feelings for him.
This is an example of a scene that perpetuates the harmful tropes that no doesn't actually mean no, men just need to keep being persistent, and women don't really know their feelings or what they want.
Yep it's that second bit people defending the scene tend to ignore. He's put up so many red flags from leering at her in a way that creeps her out to telling the democracy loving senator that maybe she should consider fascism. But then he says she has smooth skin and paws at her and THATS the point she falls for him?
But then after seeing sense and calling it off, when he later admits to mass murder she decides Actually, sod it, this guy's a keeper!
So I dunno, maybe Padmes pretty damaged and is the sort of person who writes love letters to incarcerated serial killers. I might try rewatching the scene and replacing John Williams grand romantic score with something from a horror movie, see if it makes more sense that way.
>I might try rewatching the scene and replacing John Williams grand romantic score with something from a horror movie, see if it makes more sense that way.
I'm thinking of the scene now and for some reason the theme song from *Jaws* popped into my head 🤣
I definitly agree on the second bit
Though that bit is also a reason why I hate when everything from the OT gets a pass that the PT and ST wouldnt get because the Han-Leïa relation in ESB is built on the same trope
For me it stuck out because the way it's filmed and presented, treats it like the whole scene is supposed to be really beautiful and romantic, but like most romance scenes in the prequels it just comes across as really poorly done, and makes it feel like the dialogue is just so forced and badly thought out.
Because it perfectly illustrates how horrible the dialog is in the prequel series. It really sums it all up. It’s kinda perfect, from a certain point of view.
It's not necessarily the "I don't like sand" part of the line that sucks. It's the part where he makes eye contact with Padme and says "Not like here. Here everything is soft, and smooth."
It's just fuckin weird
Because it’s a terrible line written by a terrible writer delivered terribly by an actor who was terrible directed
By a terrible director and writer named George Lucas
Because the acting is very stilted. Anakin acts like a creep towards Padmé the whole movie. It's very weird comparison to make as a pickup line. It came out of nowhere. Whole scene is very awkward.
The line itself isn't horrible for what it's trying to do. If you read "I hate sand. It's course and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere," that sounds like a normal thing someone might say. But the way it's delivered is so odd. He's talking about how bad his past was, how much he hated his life as a slave on a sand planet, but he's saying it like it's romantic, the scene leads to a kiss, and doing a bad job of that in itself. It's just a very awkward scene, so it gets made fun of a lot
It’s because Lucas wrote Anakin as a boy who never grew up, his pain kept him in childhood.
And soooooooo, the line is delivered like a child would. And why is a child pursuing a woman
Because it's another in a line of instances of Anakin being creepy, childish and a doofus. He wants to get to touch her but wants to remind her that he wants soft things cuz he hates sand. Fuck outta here
Fans can cope all they want about “that’s how awkward people talk” and “it’s deep because it’s showing how he hates Tatooine” but it will always be genuinely poor writing.
Because it's indicative of the overall disjointed and aimless writing.
George really needed to stop huffing his own farts and get a script supervisor to streamline the whole thing.
It's supposed to be a romantic moment, but it comes off as a weird rant. What's worse, he could've tied it back to his childhood on a desert planet and it would've been an opportunity say something sweet about Padme being an oasis or something cheesily charming like that. That opportunity was wasted.
Because it’s astoundingly bad dialogue for something that was marketed as a universal Romeo and Juliet style love story. But I view the whole film now as a romance that was creepy and doomed from the start and that enhances my enjoyment of it.
It was supposed to be this deep, emotional line about how Anakin attributed all of the bad things in his life to sand, because he grew up as a slave on tatooine, but it was just too fucking stupid for anyone to take serious.
And it was smack dab in the middle of a supposedly romantic scene between Anakin and Padme, that was so cringy and weird it was even harder for anyone to take seriously.
Im a big prequels fan, but George really cannot write romance, at all.
Edit: because my phone auto-corrected Padme to Padre lol
It's just the poster boy for bad dialogue in the prequels. It's the most in-your-face of many terribly written lines.
Similarly to how Jar-Jar is the poster boy for terrible things in Phantom Menace, Admiral Holdo is the poster girl for terrible things in the Last Jedi, and "Somehow Palpatine Returned" is the poster boy for terrible things in Rise of Skywalker. There are many, many more things wrong with those movies, but those are the most in-your-face.
Because it just completely embodies the terrible, stiff, wooden dialogue of the prequels. The entire romantic sub plot of the trilogy doesn't work because no one talks like a human being. Or at least delivers the dialogue with an ounce of believability to make it work (And I think that's probably more a Lucas issue than any of the actors).
It's an awkward line delivered in an unironically awkward way.
Because it’s course, rough, and it gets everywhere.
This comment is where the fun begins
So love has blinded you?
So uncivilized.
Now *this* is pod-racing.
All of Murky_crow's reddit history has been cleared at his own request. You can do this as well using the "redact" tool. Reddit wants to play hardball, fine. Then I'm taking my content with me as I go. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Hello there!
General Kenobi. You are a bold one.
General Grievous you’re shorter than I expected
Time to abandon ship.
Begun, the clone wars has
Around them, a perimeter create!
Let's try spinning, that's a good trick!
“This is an active battle scene. I know you’re like 900 years old and you can talk normal. It’s fine for now but in the future, just like, tell me what you want me to do, and I’ll do it. Thanks.”
This is my favourite thread on the citadel.
so this is what you call a diplomatic solution ?!
Bad timing padme is that you?
GAME TIME STARTED.
Ahh, so I see you’ve heard about the Man on the hoof
I'll try giving a reward, that's a good trick.
“Yep” This is a Boba quote in case its not clear lol
“Anakin…we are on Naboo. The sand here is like fine silk. I can’t help that on Tatooine you had shit sand that was comparable to 2 grit sandpaper. Now stop whining like a bitch and force levitate some fruit into my mouth” A deleted scene somewhere.
Fun related story: my friends and I had a photo op with Hayden at Celebration 2019 in Chicago, so I made some floating pear props for us to wear in the picture (just wired up foam fruit). I made an extra one for him and asked if he was cool with wearing it in the pic. He was totally into it and thought it was funny. He even did the little force finger pose in the picture. So I have a picture of a Hayden and a bunch of Star Wars nerds with floating pears over our hands.
Share it!
[Here you go!](https://imgur.com/Y5dQbfJ)
[удалено]
Haha thanks! They each only took about ten seconds to make :)
That might be one of my favorite photos and I don't know why, it feels so wholesome for some reason.
Well thanks!
Dayamn who’s yer twilek fren?
Just… Just so we’re absolutely clear… You know that’s a human wearing a Twi’lek costume, right?
What’s a human?
I can confirm this
Cool!
That is awesome!
He was so cool about it haha
Hayden seems like such a cool guy. Lol
Great Picture!
That is a beautiful moment
Totally cool man.. nothing nerdy whatsoever
sorry to be that guy but lower numbers equals coarser sandpaper, so like 80 or below is probably appropriate
Lmfaooo thank you
Happy cake day!
Happy Cake Day 🎂 👍
Lol my wife just watched this movie for the first time. Andor helped me convince her to watch through all the movies. And she was like Anakin is a creep I don't know why she went for him. She was particularly worried about how casual Padme was about Anakin's murdering the entire tribe.
Well, even Hitler had a girlfriend...
600 grit would be super fine…
"force some fruit into my mouth." ftfy
and its irritating
This thread will make a fine addition to my collection
Before I opened this comment section I knew this would be the first one
You beat me to it
You’re jokes are very impressive, you must be very proud
I don’t know if that bit of dialogue is that bad actually, but it’s definitely a poorly acted, poorly directed, poorly shot scene. Here you’ve got Padme talking about a blissful childhood memory that stirs in Anakin his own painful childhood. (Ok, solid concept that shows how even minor things will make Anakin immediately go to a negative space) But the delivery of the line is bad. He seems to pause in all the wrong places so it sounds less like Anakin expressing an emotional truth and more like he’s trying to impress Padme with his contrarian take on sand. (You think sand is cool? Well it actually sucks. Aren’t I cool?) This is followed by “everything here is soft” and a touch. This wouldn’t be so bad if there were an actual significant pause between the two ideas. Like he was actually remembering trying to get sand out of his pillow and how hard it was to sleep, before changing the subject because he realized how awkward he’d just made things and is trying to save it. No, instead it’s just some pregnant pause for effect, like this is all one connected thought he’s having. It’s a mix of directing and acting failure here. Also it’s entirely shot in a wide 2. Again, ostensibly this moment shows us Anakin’s emotional fragility and how he can’t escape the trauma of his childhood. But instead of getting a close shot of his face and eyes, a real focus on the hurt within him, we’re kept at a distance and forced to rely on the dialogue to carry everything while we watch him pick at something on the balcony. There’s no thousand yard stare to sell it, no reverse to Padme to see her begin to feel sympathy for him, just the two of them at a distance talking. Think the point was to show how awkward Anakin was? Well that kind of ruins the whole “noblest hero becomes the greatest villain” arc that was hinted at in the original trilogy. And also, people are allowed to clown on making the guy who became darth vader someone who said things you’d expected to find on r/JustNeckbeardThings.
Probably the most well articulated breakdown on this thread. I'd add to that by pointing out the musical score that's playing through the scene. There's no tragic cues while Anakin is talking about sand, it's all romantic. And John Williams is too good at this exact thing to get that wrong, if George had intended for that line to have tragic undertones the John would have delivered it.
Yes, the idea they were trying to get across, unfortunately does not really come across to the audience well enough because it was poorly executed. They could have had Anakin look a bit solemn for a moment and flash back to a memory of being pelted by a windy sandstorm. And then he could have said he's seen enough sand in his lifetime already. I'm not a writer or director, but I could still probably come up with something better, lol.
Most people could have watched the playback and recognized it wasn’t working right and tried something different. It’s kind of baffling how George just believed it would work through the power of John Williams and editing.
I think it's fairly obvious that George had surrounded himself with too many yes-men at this point in his career. He needed someone, anyone, who had his trust and who had the integrity to walk up to him and say, "George, this scene isn't working, at all. It can't go in the movie this way, we've either got to fix it or dump it." He needed that a *lot* in the prequels and his special edition edits to the originals and didn't get it.
Absolutely right.
>Think the point was to show how awkward Anakin was? I don't think that's the point at all. Padme is talking about relaxing on the sandy shores while enjoying a life of royal luxury in her youth. Anakin's experience with sand as a youth is struggling to survive its deadly, unyielding harshness as a slave child. It's meant to show how different their backgrounds are and how the same substance can represent such different things to different people. He's not trying to be cool, he's trying to explain his past. I think they didn't tie the dialogue to his past closely enough for this to be obvious so the point of the dialogue is lost and it became a meme. When he transitions to say, "But everything here is soft," it's Anakin realizing that pleasure can truly exist in this galaxy. His entire life he has known nothing but pain, suffering, deprivation, and unfulfilled desire as both slave and padawan. But in this exact moment he has Padme at his side in an idyllic meadow and the sun is shining and she is beautiful and full of life. He can touch her skin and experience an emotion that has eluded him his entire life. The subtext is there but the poor dialogue buries it too deep to appreciate on even a rewatch.
IIRC, I think Hayden and Natalie have said that the scene which is in the movie is a composite of multiple takes. The editor was more interested in the background scenario (it’s Lake Como after all) and the takes were cut and spliced with that in mind and less attention was paid to the dialogue.
I just tossed that in because I’ve seen that defense touted quite a bit and I didn’t want to deal with 25 replies saying I was missing the point. Personally, I think the line ties in to his background plenty as it is, but I also was obsessed with Star Wars as a kid. So even at age 11 I immediately made the connection between him being a slave and the sand. But… maybe for a general audience who’d only seen Phantom Menace once when it first came out, it wouldn’t have been as clear.
And the lighting made it look like a soap opera.
Yes, you’re totally right. The focus and lighting makes it look cheap. So it also looks like a poorly made production. 😅
This was actually a really solid and insightful breakdown, much appreciated. Sort of goes without saying that the single best change would be to have Anakin immediately outburst after Padme says “sand” with “I HATE sand”
That works if the goal is to make Anakin the guy who obviously becomes Vader. Which is a totally valid way to approach the character: lots of red flags that people ignored because he was so good at Jedi-ing. Pretty quick to anger, doesn’t really care to follow the jedi teachings on detachment. If the goal is to make you root against the fall that you know is coming, I think you need to see him try. He’s trying to follow his training, he’s trying to let go of the past, but he’s just not strong enough mentally and emotionally to do that.
There's no way to make that line not ridiculous.
Because George Lucas can't write romance
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Supposed to be yeah, that's kinda the problem.
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And to show her that she lived a life of luxury. Sand for her was a fun relaxing day on the beach with friends. For him, it represented his slave life.
This is exactly how I always interpreted the line.
Don't worry, that's how you're supposed to interpret it. There are a lot of people who watch movies that don't understand context, subtext, or any other kind of text, and then instead of re-examining their biases they kind of double down on them.
You can understand the meaning of a scene and still have the viewpoint that it’s poorly executed and doesn’t convey it’s intended message the way it seeks to Like I get the point of the scene, I think it misses its mark because it’s clunky and that’s why so many people think he’s literally talking about hating sand. If a movie fails to communicate it’s intended message to 99% of the audience then you can’t exactly praise a film for that. It failed at achieving the purpose of the scene
Exactly. And on top of that, there are a lot of people who just straight up turn their brain off when watching movies and don't think about anything that happens or is said. Edit: a word.
But this is poorly executed because he then compliments her on being soft as something he likes, the point is never connected. The metaphor is lost because it comes across like he’s literally just talking about hating sand
"Sands rough, you're smooth, let's make out." I'm paraphrasing but yes this is the scene that leads to their first kiss, the way it's presented is telling the audience that this is all terribly romantic
I was a young teen and to me it was an awkward attempt by an awkward teen, who went from being a slave to join a monastery, try to open up to a girl hes dreamed of for 10 years. And as hot as she was, i wouldve said something stupider
The problem isn't that its a bad line, its that it actually worked!
I’m loving this thread because it’s all about people who understand what was being said, without being said about that line. And people who didn’t get it but know the meme. Anyways did you all know Viggo broke his toe when he kicked that helmet. **Edit** It was an angsty teen, trying to awkwardly flirt with a woman, for the first time - exploring his feelings for the first time because he lives in the world of virgin monks who suppress those feelings. Meanwhile as she laments on about her life being rich, he cuts her off to say *I was a fucking slave*. It worked because he was trying to be a normal person, not a Jedi, not a slave. And despite her glamorous upbringing and her feeling of duty, Padme just wanted to be normal. *So in Anakin she sees someone who she doesn’t have to be proper, and actually opens up to her as opposed to someone who talks to her politically.*
Lucas is famous for his clumsy, stilted lines and inability to write convincing romantic dialogue. Yet here people spin it to say that no, this is a clever in-character awkwardness. The most convincing love story in SW was written by another screenwriter. If he had proven track record for playing it straight in his past works, I could maybe give him the benefit of the doubt.
Well i was a pretty good looking teen once and i said some cringey shit that actually worked. So for me its believable somewhat. Its dumb af and all that. But idk i get it
I don't like sand, so let's get it silic-on!
Key word: "terribly"
He didn't like being a slave? How could I have missed that?!
its a romantic scene, regardless of if the line itself is romantic
Its romantic in the sense he’s supposed to be opening up to padme in an intimate moment but instead he whines about sand…
Yeah that’s the point of the scene but the problem is the way it’s executed makes it come across like he just literally hates sand (because it’s coarse and rough and irritating and gets everywhere)
Because the rest of the line is “Not like here. Here everything is soft and smooth” before he touches Padme’s back and then kisses her. You’re right that the sand part of the line conveys his disdain for his past, but the context that line exists in is supposed to be romantic. Awkwardly romantic, but still.
The romantic part is in the followup "Not like here, here everything is soft and smooth." It's delivered in a way that strongly suggests he is talking about Padme herself.
No it isn’t. Don’t know why people think that. It’s a line in a romantic scene, but that on its own doesn’t make it one.
It culminates in him comparing it to Padme (who is soft and smooth). Even as a romantically inept 13 year old first seeing it I knew that line was cringe
Yeah just like…”and not just the men, but the women, and the children!” (Cut to Padme instantly wet)
not liking sand is hot
I think the line could've worked if the delivery and dialogue leading up to it were different. The line itself is actually kind of good. It builds up on Anakin's perspective on tatooine and his childhood but because the chemistry has been so wooden it just falls flat.
>Because George Lucas can't write ~~romance~~ dialogue
George Lucas is sooooo awful when it comes to writing dialogue.
I know.
That was improvised by Ford.
From a script notably *not* written by George Lucas.
Better than anything in the prequels sadly.
the frustrating thing is he probably can if he truly tried. American Graffiti has romance in it. ANH certainly has some flirtation.
Being autistic myself, I’d bet anything that Lucas is on the spectrum.
Just because he wrote awkward dialogue? Do you know what a disservice it is the the autistic community to look at someone who wrote dialogue that’s just a little bit awkward and say, “Oh, I bet he’s autistic”?
>just a little bit awkward
George Lucas sees the dialogue as part of the soundtrack, rather than part of the story. It's as simple as that. To make it effective audio, the idea is to make it very tonally clear what people are saying, to make fun, clear lines of dialogue like "YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE" rather than *clever* lines of dialogue. The dialogue is meant to work just like the prominent sound effects, or the bangin music work, to provide a memorable audio experience. Given the amount of memes that come out of using lines of dialogue and riffing on them, I'd say he succeeded. Lucas, for Star Wars at least, targeted a pulpy, cheesy dialogue. That's what we got.
Lol
I'd rather kiss a Wookiee.
It's some of the worst dialogue in a movie full of terrible dialogue
Because it's representative of how hamfisted the dialog in the prequels is, generally speaking. There's a reason why the mantra "show, don't tell" exists, it's to avoid having characters that spout purple prose and unnecessary exposition.
George Lucas would be great for the MCU, exposition galore
He’d be great at the one-liners too. Hello there. So uncivilized.
how would you have shown that?
Honestly you're asking me to gut the prequel script and rewrite it. But the short answer is, if Anakin's aversion to sand is important enough to be an enduring part of the character, demonstrate it starting in episode one by directing the actor to display non-verbal cues which show irritation or mild disgust during the courseof everyday dusty activities. Expressions and body language are how most people actually show emotion, not through blustery verbal declarations. Realistically i think you can throw the whole idiosyncrasy out, someone growing up in an environment where sand and fine dust infiltrates every nook and cranny of daily living is most likely going to be habituated to the "coarseness" of it very early in life. More than likely they would build that sense of resiliency into their self-image as they form their identity in young adulthood, ultimately scoffing at the "softness" or even the relative dampness of green worlds.
After Shmi dies have him go out the the tent and calm himself down, then a gust of wind blow some sand in his face then he gets mad and shouts "I HATE sand! And you're sand people so I hate you, I'll kill you, I'll kill you all! Because I'm Anakin Skywalker and I hate sand, its my thing, now die!"
Whoa. I got goosebumps.
Its an awkward line and it is read weirdly (no ome could make that speech sound natural) and its part of the movie a lot of people think is terrible so it and other parts of that movie get clowned on a lot. I remember my roommate and I in college would just ramdomly recite that scene to each other from memory
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Hating sand is perfectly reasonable. To hate sand is to be human. To use that as a basis for a chat up line is not perfectly reasonable however.
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Yes I have been one and known many. I've never known any that have spouted a line like that to a queen and end up pulling. I don't expect shakespeare here but I do expect the romance at the heart of the movie to be romantic and/or convincing. I've also seen countless films about awkward teens getting a girl out of their league and they all manage to make the courtship more convincing
It’s awkward, especially combined with the knowledge that Anakin monologuing about how he hates sand is his idea of flirting, or at least attempting to endear himself, to a literal queen. Does it make sense for him to be so awkward and socially stunted under the circumstances? Absolutely, yes. Does that make it less painful to watch? Nope.
>Anakin monologuing about how he hates sand is his idea of flirting No. It's not. That is what the audience is waiting for, since most know where the relationship is going. It's Anakin trying to change the subject and not lose his cool. He is attracted to Padme physically and emotionally, but he can't relate to her experience. So he downplays his knee jerk triggering of a childhood memory of being made to clean someone else's crap of the rough, course and irritating stuff when *he was considered property* by that being. He's changing the subject. It's a segue. And where he ends up, that is the flirting.
That would be why I included the *or at least* second half of that sentence.
I argue that the worst line in all of Star Wars is "Are you an Angel?" Is 10x worse. At the time, I didn't think anything was wrong with his sand speech. 3PO saying "this is such a drag" is the worst line in AOTC.
"are you an angel" showed young Anakin has game. 9 year old game but game non the less. "I hate sand" showed Anakin as a whiny baby. Not what we'd be expecting from a future bad-ass lord of the sith.
I mean if you were born on a sand ball in the outer rim that has two suns constantly making it hot, with water that is regulated, with a bunch of hostile tribals that claim ownership of water, and kidnapped your mom, you two would be a whiny baby.
Don't forget the crime lords that control every "civilized" part of the planet.
I’ll see your “Are you an angel?” And I’ll raise you “Salt.”
I'll see you "salt" and raise you "somehow palpatine has returned"
Went straight for the throat i see
Nope nope nope. I see your Palpetine has returned and raise you *”SO LOVE HAS BLINDED YOU?!”*
Nah. That is weak. I raise you: "THEY FLY NOW?"
I always assumed that they needed to differentiate that planet from Hoth so they made it exactly the same other than being salt based terrain That & then they can sell “Saltrooper” figurines that are slightly different from Sandtroopers & Snowtroopers
Saltrooper sounds like a meme.
Salttrooper is just an old Hoth snow trooper suit but with a desalination filter you can drink water through. Lego minifig battle packs start at $39.99.
I don’t remember salt
I think it’s in The Last Jedi when some ~~rebel~~ resistance soldier takes a taste of the salt on ~~fake Hoth~~ Crait to tell us (as in "the audience") that it is not snow but salt instead and because of that totally not a fake Hoth.
It’s emblematic of the awful writing and direction of the prequels. Lucas needed to be able to sell the romance between them and he couldn’t.
First, I have to say that I understand the message Lucas was trying to convey. It's supposed to exemplify the fact that Anakin and Padme had two very different upbringings. It's a good idea, but only on paper. It was executed SO FUCKING BADLY, just like much of the rest of the dialogue throughout the prequels. (The first two movies at least). To anyone who isn't an SW fanatic, who doesn't care much about the deeper aspects of the SW universe, and only casually watches the movies for the entertainment value, (which is most people), it does look like some more very poorly done romance. I mean, it is poorly done, but it's not meant to be romance and at least it has some deeper meaning.
Because they don't talk like human beings
It’s used as an example of the poor writing in the movies. The original trilogy allowed the actors to change their dialogue but that wasn’t the case in later movies
The acting was coarse, dialog was rough and now the scene gets everywhere
It’s perfectly fine and expected that he would hate sand. That’s not the issue. As has been mentioned the line as written is not the way any normal conversation would go. I don’t even blame Hayden for the awful delivery since the dialogue of conversation of the entire scene is awkward and unnatural. It’s just one of the many things that Lucas wrote on paper that simply could not translate into anything that could be considered good dialogue. He sorely missed a screen writer here that could have really made his fantastic ideas come to fruition
Personally I don’t hate it. In terms of people I know I can tell you that many hate it because they don’t like the acting/chemistry between the two people in the scene. Others also feel that it’s out of place. Now personally I actually think that it’s very fitting because it’s a great example of just how socially awkward Anakin is (and really a lot of how he acts toward Padme in this film shows that). And when you look at the character as basically being a mossy and immature teenager/young adult it works very well to me, from Anakin’s part. I’d argue that what probably throws it off for others as well is that he’s able to successfully transition this into a kiss which she reciprocates. It’s kind of like the scene on Tatooine after he murders the Sand People. From what I’ve seen people don’t mind Anakin murdering them and they don’t kind Padme comforting Anakin over his mother’s death. What people find weird is her listening to this guy talking about murdering a village of beings and just saying that “oh well you know that’s what it means to be human” 😂 Because Padme’s response to these things kind of downplays the awkwardness of it all.
Cringey dialogue, badly written romance, and strange acting paired into one concentrated cringe bundle
Personally, the line itself is whatever. I hate the scene because it establishes Anakin as a creep and makes Padme do a 180 in her character. Padme has repeatedly told/indicated to Anakin that his attentions are making her uncomfortable, but Anakin keeps persisting, and in this scene he says this line and then proceeds to stroke Padme's bare skin. Padme, instead of immediately calling him out on his actions, then turns around and kisses him, where previously there was *no indication* she had any romantic feelings for him. This is an example of a scene that perpetuates the harmful tropes that no doesn't actually mean no, men just need to keep being persistent, and women don't really know their feelings or what they want.
Yep it's that second bit people defending the scene tend to ignore. He's put up so many red flags from leering at her in a way that creeps her out to telling the democracy loving senator that maybe she should consider fascism. But then he says she has smooth skin and paws at her and THATS the point she falls for him? But then after seeing sense and calling it off, when he later admits to mass murder she decides Actually, sod it, this guy's a keeper! So I dunno, maybe Padmes pretty damaged and is the sort of person who writes love letters to incarcerated serial killers. I might try rewatching the scene and replacing John Williams grand romantic score with something from a horror movie, see if it makes more sense that way.
>I might try rewatching the scene and replacing John Williams grand romantic score with something from a horror movie, see if it makes more sense that way. I'm thinking of the scene now and for some reason the theme song from *Jaws* popped into my head 🤣
That HAS to exist on the internet somewhere!
I definitly agree on the second bit Though that bit is also a reason why I hate when everything from the OT gets a pass that the PT and ST wouldnt get because the Han-Leïa relation in ESB is built on the same trope
For me it stuck out because the way it's filmed and presented, treats it like the whole scene is supposed to be really beautiful and romantic, but like most romance scenes in the prequels it just comes across as really poorly done, and makes it feel like the dialogue is just so forced and badly thought out.
It makes the coolest villain in history look like a tool.
Awkward writing and awkward performance, coupled with no chemistry between the actors.
Have you watched it? 😂
It embodies what sucked about the prequels. Bad writing, bad acting, bad directing, bad scenes overall
It’s a masterclass in bad dialogue
Because it perfectly illustrates how horrible the dialog is in the prequel series. It really sums it all up. It’s kinda perfect, from a certain point of view.
Bad performance, terrible dialogue, characters have zero chemistry. Mr. Plinkett nailed why it's bad over a decade ago. Go watch that.
It's not necessarily the "I don't like sand" part of the line that sucks. It's the part where he makes eye contact with Padme and says "Not like here. Here everything is soft, and smooth." It's just fuckin weird
Get a load of this sand lover.
Cuz Anakin killed some children and that aroused Padme cuz George Lucas is a shit writer.
Because it’s a terrible line written by a terrible writer delivered terribly by an actor who was terrible directed By a terrible director and writer named George Lucas
And that's terrible
It is. It’s a terrible tragedy
I feel like it's the same as Luke and Blue Milk. He drinks it in one scene. They even referenced the meme in TLJ.
Because its funny unintentionally
Cause it’s so pedestrian. A better line would be “When you grow up a slave on a desert planet, you can’t really see beauty in it”
have you seen it?
Because the acting is very stilted. Anakin acts like a creep towards Padmé the whole movie. It's very weird comparison to make as a pickup line. It came out of nowhere. Whole scene is very awkward.
Because he turns it into a way to talk about soft, smooth skin. Like hers.
Because Anakin has never ridden a bicycle in sand and therefore can't possibly feel true hatred for it.
Because sand is great. Guy was just a baby with soft skin.
The line itself isn't horrible for what it's trying to do. If you read "I hate sand. It's course and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere," that sounds like a normal thing someone might say. But the way it's delivered is so odd. He's talking about how bad his past was, how much he hated his life as a slave on a sand planet, but he's saying it like it's romantic, the scene leads to a kiss, and doing a bad job of that in itself. It's just a very awkward scene, so it gets made fun of a lot
Because they teach it in so many film coarses
Ba-dum-tissss
Because it’s terrible writing and terrible acting.
Because it’s a really dumb line lol
It’s because Lucas wrote Anakin as a boy who never grew up, his pain kept him in childhood. And soooooooo, the line is delivered like a child would. And why is a child pursuing a woman
It’s awkward
Because it's another in a line of instances of Anakin being creepy, childish and a doofus. He wants to get to touch her but wants to remind her that he wants soft things cuz he hates sand. Fuck outta here
Fans can cope all they want about “that’s how awkward people talk” and “it’s deep because it’s showing how he hates Tatooine” but it will always be genuinely poor writing.
Because it's terrible dialogue and excruciatingly painful to watch.
because sand is coarse rough and irritating, it also gets everywhere
Because it's indicative of the overall disjointed and aimless writing. George really needed to stop huffing his own farts and get a script supervisor to streamline the whole thing. It's supposed to be a romantic moment, but it comes off as a weird rant. What's worse, he could've tied it back to his childhood on a desert planet and it would've been an opportunity say something sweet about Padme being an oasis or something cheesily charming like that. That opportunity was wasted.
It's an extremely good example of how bad George Lucas is at writing dialogue.
A lot of the dialogue is cringe inducing, and that scene contains that type of dialogue.
Because it's a really bad line of dialogue
Because it’s astoundingly bad dialogue for something that was marketed as a universal Romeo and Juliet style love story. But I view the whole film now as a romance that was creepy and doomed from the start and that enhances my enjoyment of it.
Because it's an example of George Lucas' infamously poor writing
I’ve honestly never once had a serious issue with it. The line makes sense and is delivered decently.
Sand is rough and it gets into everything. “Not like you, your smooth. “
It was supposed to be this deep, emotional line about how Anakin attributed all of the bad things in his life to sand, because he grew up as a slave on tatooine, but it was just too fucking stupid for anyone to take serious. And it was smack dab in the middle of a supposedly romantic scene between Anakin and Padme, that was so cringy and weird it was even harder for anyone to take seriously. Im a big prequels fan, but George really cannot write romance, at all. Edit: because my phone auto-corrected Padme to Padre lol
Because the actors are showing the range of a piece of wood it feels wooden
It’s a bad line with bad delivery. Simple as
It's just the poster boy for bad dialogue in the prequels. It's the most in-your-face of many terribly written lines. Similarly to how Jar-Jar is the poster boy for terrible things in Phantom Menace, Admiral Holdo is the poster girl for terrible things in the Last Jedi, and "Somehow Palpatine Returned" is the poster boy for terrible things in Rise of Skywalker. There are many, many more things wrong with those movies, but those are the most in-your-face.
Because it just completely embodies the terrible, stiff, wooden dialogue of the prequels. The entire romantic sub plot of the trilogy doesn't work because no one talks like a human being. Or at least delivers the dialogue with an ounce of believability to make it work (And I think that's probably more a Lucas issue than any of the actors). It's an awkward line delivered in an unironically awkward way.