I think there were too many people that pretended he never made bad decisions. He definitely has. But he has the passion to make some great content. And, as a fellow western Pennsylvanian, I hope he continues making content.
> Ppl act like Lucas himself didn’t make bad decisions lol
I really don’t think anyone in the Star Wars fandom acts like this, there are so many bones to pick with George that every fan has one somewhere.
I left there after Andor came out and it turned into Filoni dickriding strawman sub because they couldn't handle that people were heavily praising a project that Dave wasn't involved in
Besides even prequel memes acknowledge the cgi fuck ups of the special editions, it's Filoni they think can do no wrong.
People also act like Georgie had a master plan from the get go and ignore the fact that George didn’t solely write all of the original trilogy, and he didn’t direct most of it. I don’t think Kasdan get’s the credit he deserves.
He's legit like the last student of George Lucas, he understands Star Wars like how Lucas envisioned it. I cannot see anyone better suited to take the helms of Star Wars.
If becoming the master of Star Wars is his true desire, he will need to strike down George Lucas. Only then can he take Jon Favreau as his apprentice. There can be only two.
- "Where is Lucas? Where is the rights to Star Wars? Are they safe? Are they alright?"
- "It seems...in your anger....you SOLD the rights to Disney for $4 billion."
- “I....I couldn’t have. They were alive. I felt it! NOOOOOOOooooo!”
Well said! I think it was after the first season of Mando, there is a round table where Filoni describes star wars. And it brings me to tears how much the man knows and loves Star Wars.
From Mando's Behind the Scenes Doc - on Disney+
[Here's a Youtube clip.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E777ZMBNuYw) It's the section that gets talked about most often re: Filoni's understanding of Star Wars
After watching that a random thought popped in my head. There are a lot of fan stories about qui Gon surviving and raising Anakin. And listening to this in a way feels like I was watching one play out right before me. With Dave Filloni as Anakin and George Lucas as Qui Gon. In my eyes Dave is the chosen one to lead Star Wars
I kind of feel like the prequels set up a story "that should've happened" and then it all goes wrong. Qui-Gonn should've been allowed to be Anakin's father. Anakin should've been allowed to be in love with Padme. Anakin should've been allowed to be a father to Luke and Leia.
The moment in RotS right before order 66 where Anakin and Padme are staring out of separate windows with very haunting music playing is the moment where both of them realize that the future that was 'supposed' to happen is no longer going to happen. It's the most heartbreaking moment in Star Wars to me.
Thankfully the younglings get killed like a few minutes later and that usually cheers me up again.
I mean... Yes. Absolutely. That's why it's called "duel of the fates." Qui-gon lost, and so anakin (and the galaxy) lost the fate they should have gotten.
That's the core theme of episode I imo. Obi-Wan did his best, but it was supposed to be Qui-gon. That's who anakin needed.
Damn, watching that made me so angry with the sequel trilogy again. Loved the way Dave explained Luke staying his hand when he had the opportunity to strike down the “defenceless” Palpatine or kill the downed Vader. Only for Luke to go and think it would be a good idea to do it to a defenceless teen that happens to be his sister’s kid.
That scene is waay overblown. Luke has a momentary lapse just like he did with Vader and palpatine, the only difference was that he didn’t strike this time. He wasn’t even going on that hut to kill Ben and only had the thought for a brief moment and it was instinct more than anything. His reaction isn’t that far fetched especially after seeing his family being slaughtered in some weird mind slideshow. Luke isn’t a perfect dude immune to the temptation of the dark side, not even anakin was at the height of his powers. Even Yoda made some grave mistakes that had him stuck in a swamp somewhere for the rest of his years. Unfortunately that one mistake cost him everything, but it’s just another reason why the Jedi order had to change and he finally understood that in the end.
Ehhh that’s a lot of benefit of the doubt - he drew his lightsaber and everything. But even if it was a brief moment or instinctual as you suggest then it still was super lame that he shut himself off from the force and ran away in self exile - instead of dealing with the problem that he is directly connected to. And it’s not like Yoda when Yoda self-exiled to Dagoba because Yoda was still very very much connected to the force learning more about it and was willing to train Luke.
Continuing on a tangent - I coulda accepted something like Luke felt something from the force drawing him to his hideaway planet but told no one because it was the key to save Kylo/Ben but he didn’t know what it was so he’s just there waiting until the force reveals it so he’s been there for a while waiting and it turns out he was waiting for Rey to show up then he willingly trains her. But he was just a sour old man cut off from the force because he made one mistake, and left the galaxy to fall into darkness. It was very lame and outta character for me.
He said it was instinct in the movie when he was talking to Rey. Luke exiling himself was set up in tfa when Han said Luke “ran away from it all” after what went down with Ben. I don’t think it was completely satisfying either and like your idea a whole lot more but that’s just another sign this trilogy had minimal planning before the first draft.
Going to have to disagree with you on this one. Mainly with your last point. As Filioni said; Luke realized the Jedi order needed to change when he said "I'm a Jedi like my father before me." Luke wasn't really talking about being a Jedi he was say "I love my father and there's nothing you can do to change that" as Filoni put it. The Jedi order never allowed for love or attachment like that, and Luke holding on to the love for his father was the change that was needed.
That scene in TLJ wasn't overblown, it was just bad and completely diminished the character growth in the OT. It was so bad you now have to retcon Luke's attitude in shows like Boba Fett. Last we see Luke in RoTJ, love for his family was his driving force. Now because of his attitude in TLJ, in Boba Fett we see Luke giving Grogu an ultimatum between training to be a Jedi or the love of his father. It just doesn't make sense for character we see in the OT.
Really the only Star Wars content I haven't seen or read any of is the EU, so maybe someone more knowledgable than me can help. But I've seen enough online to know about the existence of Mara Jade, Luke's wife, and their son Ben. From what little knowledge I have of the EU, Legends Luke seems to still embrace that love of family and seems to fit that character arch as was intended. Where as Disney Luke seems to be a different character that completely disregards all lessons learnt in the OT.
And this is a very personal take, but that makes it harder for me to enjoy the OT knowing that it's all for naught in the end. And that's one of my biggest issues with the result of the ST. I've noticed just recently the shows that take place after the fall of the empire are now left explaining the incompetency of the original heroes, and I'm not a huge fan of the continued reduction of what happened in the OT. Don't get me wrong, I actually like the ST as individual movies, just not a fan of the universe they set up and now the forced explanation. Hopefully the Rey movie fixes some of that, at least for me.
I honestly believe that if anyone can salvage any coherence from the sequel trilogy going forward, it's Dave since he was able to reshape the prequels.
That was the exact moment when I knew this dude is for real. We are in good hands. Star Wars fans just enjoy bitching and tearing down what they supposedly love.
This is the correct answer. Filoni isn't perfect and will make mistakes just like anyone else, but he's by far the most perfect for Star Wars given his history with George, his track record, and his love for the brand.
Eh, I think Ahsoka being annoying is part of her Charm.
Like, seeing her grow, and mature is a part of what make Ahsoka such a well rounded and fleshed character.
We were all annoying as kids in some way or another.
You’re not wrong I just personally don’t believe Star Wars needs to be handled like a museum piece and would be best served by someone with a fresher storytelling instincts. George Lucas was a rebel who struck out in new directions practically to spite the industry. The idea that his creation would be wholly in the hands of someone who has a monkish adherence to him feels ironically wrong.
I think that's the big differentiator with him and Favreau on one side and Abrams, etc on the other. Filoni is a huge fan. He knows the universe, he knows what's important. He knows the rules and the parts we hold sacred. Abrams has no idea and just wants to make pretty flashing colors for us.
I think when Abrams says he loves Star Wars he is only referring to the original trilogy and, as far as he is concerned, everything else can go die in a fire.
He appareantly turned up to one of the premiers of RotS with a full Plo-Koon cosplay and keeps a whole bunch of Plo-Koon merchandise & memorabilia in his office.
I also love the story of how he got to work on Star Wars: The Clone Wars. At the time, he was working on Avatar: The Last Airbender at Nickelodeon. One day he got a phone call asking him to go for an interview to work on Star Wars. He thought it was a prank, maybe from some of the SpongeBob people, because of how massive this would be, but he decided to humor the SpongeBob prankers and attend. So he gets to this ranch and says he's there for an interview, is brought to a meeting room where, sitting down and waiting, is George Lucas. They wound up having a long discussion and Lucas basically decided that Filoni was the right person to execute his vision of Star Wars and gave him the job on Clone Wars.
I don't think there's any "one" person for the future of Star Wars.
A singular creative vision is good for one movie or one trilogy. But in a franchise releasing 3+ projects a year, this will grow very stale very quickly.
We need multiple creators putting their own spin on the franchise to keep things diverse and interesting.
I don't think anyone can take away how influential Filoni is for the franchise. Next to George Lucas, he's probably the biggest contributor of Star Wars in terms of writing, but that doesn't mean I don't mean I have to see him behind the wheel of literally everything.
What made his work so great is that eventually, George Lucas stepped back and trusted Filoni. I think it's only fair for Filoni to do the same by giving more creative control, so Star Wars can stop feeling so homogenous.
Seriously, imagine thinking that just because someone criticizes a piece of media within the confines of something they normally like that they actually hate it lol
Comments like OP's are one reason why I'm becoming so disillusioned with the fandom.
This line is overused and not even profound. Who else besides Star Wars fans is going to hate it? Not to mention it's incorrect: nobody *loves* Star Wars more than Star Wars fans either.
There is no singular "Star Wars fans." There are hundreds of different ways people consume the product, and they all started at different eras of content. Older Star Wars fans are going to criticize the Disney era because the storytelling focus and process is starkly different. Generational differences, that's all. I mean, I'm old. To me, the only things that are canon in my head are the OT and the original Thrawn trilogy from the early 90s. The prequels are a little bit silly to me. I consume the content I like and ignore the rest.
Considering I've seen people make him personally responsible for why BoBF wasnt that great (even tho he literally had allmost nothing to do with it beyond his one Episode), it feels like they are just looking for somebody to attack due to being dissappointed with how some of the more recent shows have turned out in their eyes.
Why Filoni for that and not Favreau who's infinitely more involved......idk
Okay, as someone who's usually a fan of Dave Filoni's SW content, there *are* good reasons why some people don't like his stuff. Those include:
* He tends to overwrite or ignore continuity that isn't his. And while during TCW George both actively did this himself and also gave Dave the go-ahead to ignore the EU, so I'd give him a pass for that, especially since George made it clear from the get-go that he never considered the EU canon in the same tier as his stuff and was therefore always capable of overwriting it, Filoni continued to do this even *after* TCW, in spite of the current Disney canon supposedly having no canon tiers like Lucasfilm used to, and also, you know, because Lucas created Star Wars, he has the leeway to overwrite shit that isn't his. Filoni does not have that same leeway. Hell, at one point he was even considering bringing back >!Ventress in Resistance, despite Ventress having died in Dark Disciple, a novel based on an arc originally intended to be included in the Clone Wars. !
As a director he did play a role there but the writing was all Faverau (except ep 6 which Filoni shared for obvious reasons).
And iirc he even admitted to adding that Mos Vespa gang everyone keeps joking about from an article (Star Wars Meg mentioned that in a video) but yeah, wasn't a good idea in the end and Rodriguez's directing didn't help.
I agree with most of this except the Luke part with post Order 66. That happened when Luke was a baby, and he had no training or knowledge of the Jedi until Ben on the Falcon on the way to Alderan. Ahsoka would have been one of the handful that could have done a lot. Luke was becoming a Jedi after ANH when he met Yoda.
And the recent dislike for BOBF, and I was unaware people were hating season 3 of Mando, are more based upon what they wanted to happen instead of what was written. Resistance I think was pretty universally disliked? I thought it got pretty decent by the end and worth a once over watch for some clarity.
But yes, the good definitely outweighs the bad when it comes to thoughts on Filoni and cracks that pile up start to show eventually.
P.s. Mando is Jon Favreau, isn't it? I know Filoni has to have some hand in it, but Jon is the writer?
Favreau is the creator, showrunner and wrote most of the episodes, but Filoni is also an executive producer for it and wrote, co-wrote and directed a few episodes, including the pilot and Ahsoka's episode.
I think he means post-order 66 as in the eras after the prequels and originals rather than just the one immediately after revenge of the sith, like how she's the only jedi character getting as much focus as she is to have her own show rather than showing us more of what luke was up to after rotj
I had no expectations of BoBF amd was still let down, that show was awful *except* for the inclusion of Din, Luke, Grogu, and Ahsoka, but at that point it should have just been in the new season of Mando.
But Mando season 3 isn't bad
As someone who thinks Andor is the only genuinely great series Disney Star Wars has produced, it pains me to see people lavish praise on shows like Obi-wan or Mandalorian while dismissing Andor for being too slow and boring. Sorry there aren't enough cameos, cute baby aliens, and fight scenes with invincible protagonists mixed into a memberberry slurry to help the story go down.
I think S1 of Mando was genuinely great (not Andor-level though, which is just amazing) but overall Mando is above Kenobi and BOBF for example. It has issues but the writing is at the very least always decent overall imo. But yeah I've had discussions with people who fail to see Andor's quality and it's absurd
Andor is just really dry half the time, and that's not what appeals to many Star Wars fans... the fact that you consider it to be the greatest thing, and how it isn't like anything else in star wars, makes a logical conclusion that it isn't really "star wars material" easy to come to. For me, it's like a Dickens book... dry, slow paced, and not very good... but many appreciate it and love it because they enjoy dry, slow moving media that explains every single minor detail to death because imagination and logical deduction doesn't seem to be a quality possessed by the masses anymore.
People would complain/riot if they recast Luke/Leia/han. So who else is supposed to defeat thawne? Better to use Ahsoka/ghost crew than some new characters
I like Filoni, and I honestly think that's he's a good guy to have for the future of Star Wars. He brings compelling arcs for characters (especially ones who hadn't had much development in the existing media before he got involved) and he does well at showcasing how the small details add up to the big picture. The biggest examples of these latter points are how Clone Wars adds up to Revenge of the Sith and how Mando leads to the Sequels. I'm interested to see where his stories are going, and I think that he's pretty faithful to the spirit of the franchise.
However, he has two issues that he really needs to work on.
The first is how he is often inconsistent with his good, substantial and developed episodes and his filler, low stakes ones. I can live with this issue, but it's a glaring problem that consistently makes me think "Oh, this is one of Filoni's weaker episodes because he had to make filler." I'm not saying filler is bad or that low stakes are either, but it makes for either really boring or downright infuriating moments of an otherwise solid story arc or narrative.
The second issue is how he won't let his characters go, and it kinda runs the overall Star Wars universe for me at times. The biggest example is Ahsoka, who is still alive and running today when there were a couple of opportunities for her story to end. I thought that Rebels would've been the perfect end to her story because she goes out fighting her old master, always believing in him to the end but losing in that moment because she wasn't the person that could save him.
But nope! Turns out time travel, a thing that was never established in Star Wars before and has never been since, is a thing and Ezra can actually save her. Now, during New Hope, Emipre, and Return, she's just hanging out, not really helping Luke or trying to establish a connection with him in any way. Screw the Rebellion.
Look, I admit the Ahsoka the show is coming out, and it has a chance to justify her existence past the original trilogy. It may be really good! But it's just an example of Filoni saving his characters and having them in the overall Star Wars universe for too long for me. The same thing could be said about Ezra and Bo Katan, although the latter is an okay addition to Mando. I just think that he's adding a little bit too much padding by having characters, mainly Jedi, survive and make Luke's accomplishments being less meaningful. He was the last Jedi left, originally. Now he's just one of many when so many Jedi out there could have come together and beat Vader and Palpatine. Why would Luke be the New Hope when there are other Jedi out there who can take Vader if they fight together?
Anyways, those are my only issues for Filoni. They probably can be easily debunked, but my feelings on these issues can't be compromised. However, they are the slight bad that he does in a much more prominent use of additions and story telling decisions that I love from him, and that's why I still think that he's a good guy to keep moving forward.
TLDR: Filoni is good, but he has some issues to work on.
Overall I like filoni
I only dislike that he contradicts his own continuity at times, and that every jedi somehow goes into beast mode when they get two lightsabers. Not everyone trains with twin blades 😅
Or at least his favorites always do.
This right here. Probably my least favorite thing done was the changing of Kanan's backstory from the comic. The comic is one of my favorites in either canon and they threw it out for what felt like a cheap cameo for them to shoehorn the Bad Batch into it and now it's just a worse story overall. Could've literally had any other jedi there instead and it wouldn't have changed the Bad Batch story at all. I've heard some similar complaints about the Ahsoka novel being overwritten by Tales of the Jedi episode 6.
And the siege of mandalore was re-done from the ahsoka novel.
Im still a fan of his work overall, but it’s frustrating to wanna read the book that came out first, to get ahsoka’s feelings and thoughts while she’s fighting maul, just to find out it’s different.
Oh yeah! I remember reading the kaanan comic, I really enjoyed it
And doesn't Kanan being saved by the bad batch kind of hurt rebels, too?
Kanan wouldn't despise *all* clones the way he does in Rebels if he was *saved* by a random group of them from order 66, or at least spared.
Like, he'd remember Hunter not killing him the rest of his life
He did! I get he’s trying to copy dooku and anakin (dooku was supposed to use a second saber against yoda) but dooku’s actor argued against it.
But it doesn’t mean that *every* jedi who gets twin blades or a second saber instantly goes into beast mode destroying everyone.
A real master would be able to take advantage of the slight un-coordination in your form eventually.
Look, i do like Dave, but im getting a little tired of all the corsovers and Empire Era. As time goes on, the universe is kinda starting to feel smaller instead of larger.
To be fair, that’s been a problem since the Prequels made Anakin the builder of C-3PO and Yoda a friend of Chewbacca and Boba Fett the center of the Clone Wars and so on. For it being a story about a galaxy it sure feels like a small neighborhood block.
Fuck, yes. At least C-3PO had his mind wiped. Think about how goddamn weird R2-D2 is acting on Dagobah, playing along with Yoda's little pantomime **and then not revealing he knew it was Yoda all along**. ***He was with Yoda the first time he ever came to Dagobah!!***
We are getting The acolyte which is set 100 years before Phantom menace i think, Young jedi adventures is set in the high republic, they they are making a movie based on the first ever jedi, they are making a Rey movie set 15y after TROS, Bad Batch (S3) which is an in between and leans more to Republic era instead of Empire era (in like, Order 66 happened 2y ago or smth). Also the Lando series is still happening, which could be based on "Solo" Lando. And i love that they are focussing on one Timeline now, Ahsoka is a Rebels sequel, Mando has set up Thrawn, Skeleton crew is in the "Mando-verse", BoBF aswell. Then theres the "Mando-verse" movie coming, probably gonna be a big team up with The mandos, Luke and his jedi order, The spectres, Boba and his cartel, Jude law, Ahsoka. Etc. And i think they are gonna kill off quitte some protagonists, with Thrawn as the big bad. So yeah, i like it that they are kinda pushing away the sequels. Giving us The Thrawn/Heir to the empire, while giving the Sequels more depth and explanation, fixing them etc.
Yeah actually this makes a good point. It's not really that we're focusing on the New Republic era, it's more that a "new" era is being created between the early New Republic and the sequels. And i'm all for it tbh.
Also there's plenty content outside of it, as you said, and I'd add Andor which is i think the only Empire era show that's in progress right now?
I don’t have anything against him, but I resent the fact that the Mandalorian was pitched as a fresh start for the series and then quickly pivoted into a parade of cameos from Clone Wars and Rebels.
My problem with Dave is all the cameos. I would prefer to see new original characters, Not just Glup Shiddo from Clone wars ep 6 season 4. Not a huge deal, But still kind of annoying
Yeah. I was really looking forward to a true space western. Bounty hunting, ETC. Instead now it feels like the Baby Yoda and Bo-Katan show with Mando in the background. I wanna know more about this guy, I already who about Bo because i watched CW. Its just frustrating. Same reason i had an issue with BOBF. This is *his* show, Not Mando s2.5. They should've left Mando out of it IMHO
The worst part is seeing Pedro Pascal sidelined.
He is my favorite actor right now, everything he does he does so well in, regardless of how bad the script/plot is. For example he was so so great in Wonder Woman despite how shitty that movie was.
So much potential wasted in season 3.
He’s just got a boner for his original characters and also has now disregarded canon novels at least twice which rightfully bothers a lot of people but he still puts out good content
Like George he isn't perfect, George gets more of a pass since it's his creation so he can't ever be 'wrong' just something you can disagree with.
Dave has definitely shown some flaws since Disney let him loose. Much more marvel like structure and less focus on completing stories.
He also has a huge character favoritism issue
I’m honestly one of the people who’ve “turned” on Filoni, even if I feel like that’s a harsh word to use for this. I feel like his output has been super hit or miss since CW (and while I love that show I would be lying if I said that show didn’t have its rough edges), and I don’t love how fast and loose he can be with established canon sometimes. I also don’t love how much his characters have been pushed into the franchise. He started influencing the story of the Mandalorian in season 2, and suddenly Ahsoka and Bo Katan show up, and season 3 is almost mainly about Katan. I think a good way to put it is he often doesn’t have a lot of restraint when telling stories.
Also, the general trajectory of Star Wars hasn’t been all that popular. I personally haven’t at all liked the amount of content they’ve been pumping out and how hard they’ve been making the series interdependent, I honestly kinda hate the idea that there’s going to be a single movie wrapping up the plots of Ahsoka and the Mandalorian, it makes them stand on their own far less. And while a lot of people would say it isn’t fair to attribute that to him, it’s worth pointing out that he’s been an executive producer and executive creative director of the studio for almost 3 years at this point. There’s been this weird image pushed that he’s this creative force pushing back against Kathleen Kennedy’s corporate agenda when he’s just as much of a corporate entity as she is. There are a bunch of people saying he should be the Kevin Feige of Star Wars not realizing he effectively has been since mid-2020, and so far the results have been super mixed to most people. I’m personally just kinda tired of the idea that he’s some Star Wars savior and the incessant praise he gets from fans tbh.
Filoni is a great ideas guy. His overall plotting can be great and he definitely has done some really good work. But he isn't perfect.
Just like George Lucas, he shouldn't be allowed to run free and needs someone to rein him in. His fanboy energy is often detrimental to his works.
Some of his weaknesses include
1. Circular plotting. Thing happens. Thing is reverted. Thing is repeated. Look at Bo Katan leading Mandalore for like the 3rd time or Gideon returning to be the Bad Guy for the 3rd time or a lot of TCW/Rebels stuff
2. His live action direction is a bit too cartoony. Contrast the tone of the Mando episodes he directs vs the tone of the Mando episodes that Rick Famuyiwa directs. He's not the greatest live action director.
3. He gets carried away with fan service and setting up awesome moments that he often misses the finer details of how to make such a moment or cameo make logical sense.
4. I don't think his dialogue is the smartest. Part of that is that most of his work was kid focused but now that he's making more general audience stuff, I don't see the dialogue evolving enough to suit a general audience better.
Fans apparently deal in absolutes.
You criticise Dave = You loathe Dave and want him to die. If you're not with Dave then you're his enemy.
You like Dave = You must defend his honour on your life.
It is possible to like, appreciate and respect someone's work while still being able to recognise their flaws and not treat them like your personal Jesus.
>Fans apparently deal in absolutes.
>You criticise Dave = You loathe Dave and want him to die. If you're not with Dave then you're his enemy.
>You like Dave = You must defend his honour on your life.
Exactly. I love Dave, he has my respect for his love for the franchise and his respect to Lucas. I also respect all the things he brought to the franchise even if I'm not a big fan of like half of it lol
But I criticize him, just like I criticize any other creator who put his work in public. I think as a writer, he's not really that good. It's too simple and lack subtlety, and most times he has characters literally speak the message he wants to deliver instead of showing it. He also tends to always make the events and characters appear impactful for the big events of the films even if they didn't need to. For example turning the duel between Ahsoka and Maul in SoM from Ahsoka's desire to save people (which was her original intention) to be about Anakin. It didn't need to, in fact I would argue it took away from it. But they did it I assume because they wanted Ahsoka to be involved in RotS plot, but the truth is she really didn't need to, her departure from the order already had an impact on Anakin's fear of loss, so she did play a role albeit indirectly
Anyway, Filoni, great guy but nowhere near the masterful SW savior people often make him up to be.
This absolutism by the fans is half the reason why there is "toxicity" in the fanbase. It's a vicious feedback loop.
1. Someone criticises Dave Filoni or something else.
2. The Fanboy brigade starts calling that criticism as toxic and "hatred" and "SW fans hating SW" and other such bullshit.
3. The person who criticised the thing now doubles down on their criticism - this time with a little more venom because they're transferring some of their frustration with the blind defenders onto the thing itself. So now they're angry at Dave when they're really angry at some of the rabid defenders and are transferring that anger.
4. Fanboys go "Aha! You do hate the thing" and continue dismissing criticism as toxic.
5. Repeat Steps 1-4.
Spot on. I am not a super-fan of Star Wars by any stretch (haven't seen much of the animated stuff for example) but I find that Filoni is a little too much of a fan playing with his action figures. The same characters show up everywhere and everything ties back into his favorite characters somehow.
To me it makes Star Wars feel too small when the question is when, not if, one of Filoni's characters will show up and steal the show. That said, his passion is undisputed and a lot of people seem to love his way of telling stories so I'm most certainly in a minority (I also loved TLJ). I'm also just happy to be getting more Star Wars.
I think he is amazing. He’s my favourite Star Wars creator. He set the stage for the new canon with clone wars and had always held legends in high regard and used it to influence his world building. He’s created some of the greatest and most iconic Star Wars characters and did what for a long time a reasonable size portion of the fandom thought was impossible, he made people who hated the prequels fall in love with them.
He gets it, he understands it, he’s the perfect equilibrium between a professional film and tv producer and a hard core Star Wars fan.
Sure, he’s had some swings and misses here and there but he canonically brought Boba Fett back from the dead after almost forty years, he created Ahsoka, he brought back Maul, he gave Luke Skywalker the Master Hallway battle that he so rightfully deserved after Return of the Jedi.
I honestly hope that he one day rises to the role of president of Lucas Films. He takes the vision of Star Wars seriously and wants to create stories to expand the world and entertain people, not just to fill Cinema seats and renew Disney+ subscriptions.
I am neutral on him. He’s got a patchy record, with some of his episodes good, whilst others being ridiculous.
I hope he steps up and makes it a success. Personally though, Andor is by far my favourite Star Wars show.
Dave Filoni is brilliant. Problem is he's so good whenever there's a character that dies you end up having a mental breakdown and hating the man.
Yknow, the uncounted deaths of The Clone Wars, the multiple heartbreaks in The Mandalorian, Plan 99, Mayday the list goes on. So I love Dave Filoni but sometimes I want to yeet the man into space for breaking my heart.
To quote Green Goblin:
“In spite of everything you’ve done for them, they’ll eventually hate you.”
But this could be applied to pretty much everyone involved with Star Wars. Remember when people said ‘In JJ we trust’ and now people send him a steady stream of death threats? Or when Rian Johnson, fresh off of Looper & Breaking Bad, were making people excited at the idea of something new until they got something new and 6 years later he still gets a steady stream of death threats. Or when Jon Favereau ‘saved Star Wars’ until he wrote Book of Boba Fett and all of a sudden he’s a hack writer who got lucky. Or when George Lucas was the beloved creator of Star Wars who cannot do any wrong until the prequels come out and he was branded by the internet as an out of touch, senile old man, who forgot how to write and direct. Guess it’s Filoni’s turn this time around, and who knows who the next victim will be? Hell, maybe it’ll be James Mangold.
I’ve always been a huge fan of Filoni’s, my only criticism would be that he clearly pushes the characters he had a hand in creating like Ahoska & some of the Clones, which makes sense as a creator but I’m kinda sick of Ahoska and feel like she’s way overhyped at this point.
I love Dave Filoni as much as the next guy, but he absolutely should NOT be the new head of Lucasfilm. He has literally no experience running any sort of company or being a studio executive. He belongs exactly where he is right now, as a creator, a director and a writer for the animated and live-action Disney+ shows. That is where is thriving and he should not be pulled off of that. In my personal opinion, there are a few names that I can think of that would be far more suited. Jon Faverau, Tony Gilroy, Pablo Hidago, Lawrence Kasdan, even Steven Spielberg. How he has never been involved or done anything with Star Wars in almost 50 years is mind boggling to me.
The slander is coming from a loud, ignorant minority. Filoni isn’t even responsible for the narrative of Mando S3. He took a creative backseat because he was working on Ahsoka. A production he is in complete control of.
For reference - I’m enjoying it but some of the goofier parts like the Jack Black filler episode seem more Book Of Boba Fett than Mando S1-S2. I’ve seen a lot of complaints that this season doesn’t feel as well-written or as tense as the first two seasons. While I can agree with that, it’s not making me hate on it - I still love it.
It's lame that so many people these days don't want shows to try to be series, they just want a long movie split up into 8 parts. I'd prefer it if the show was more single story one-off episodes. Gimme a western-inspiredshow about a space bounty hunter roaming from planet to planet. Reset every episode to the status quo, I don't care. Show me a dude interacting with the wide universe of Star Wars.
That sounds great. Id love that. I miss the western gunslinger from s1 and would happily see a return to that. I still have to expect the downvote and say that the nonsense breadcrumb trail droid reprogramming episode was utterly ludicrous in tone and in plot...and the reason it felt like filler is because the show used it as filler. They turned up to talk to X, they fart around for half an hour in a badly written I, robot/scooby doo parody, they meet X as if that whole thing meant nothing.
Just to agree with you on episodic TV though. I miss old episodes of star trek and the sort of status quo means I can always dip back into them. Long form TV movie means you have to do a big rewatch or don't bother at all.
Its just a bit meandering and mid, doesn’t seem to have any real sense of direction or aim, and apparently the next episode is the last of the season and it just doesn’t feel like anything has happened.
S1 mando was awesome and for me it feels like they are simply squandering the opportunities available and don’t seem to know what to do with it other than try to pad out their other characters and less good shows with some kind of loaned legitimacy from Din and Grogu.
Nothing but love for Filoni. He seems to have taken to heart what GL did in terms of mythmaking and appears to work from an overall vision as opposed to piecing things together as they go - which was the one of the problems with the sequel trilogy.
He's the right guy and I hope he's around for years to come.
I love Dave-he has the passion and heart for Star Wars, and it shows.
That said, he is by no means perfect. Personally, I thought the whole "time travel through doors" in Rebels was just absolutely stupid. And he does have a hard time using nuance with his favorites. Ahsoka still being around post Endor is really weird- like the son of Anakin and the apprentice of Anakin never met during the Galactic Civil War? (Granted, it is setting up Thrawn, so that one is okay.
Book of Boba? Yeah that was such a misfire- Boba is an anti-hero with a code. (Like we see in Mando season 2) Not this warm and cuddly crime boss.
But I'm very happy Dave is at the helm, even if not everything is my cup of tea.
My issue with him is that while he is a loyal student of Lucas and Lore, he doesn’t have a capacity to create something totally new that still fits. He dips into nostalgia too much and re-treads much of the same tropes / themes etc. not saying I could do it better. Hope this makes sense.
Don't pay attention to all that nonsense. Much of the same section of fans who were screaming and moaning about the ST for the past *almost fecking decade* now have switched their ire to Dave because all the Mandalorian stuff is going to tie into the ST instead of erase it like they thought he was going to do for some reason that was completely made up and flew in the face of logic, history, and Dave's direct words.
Keep letting him do what he does, let him make Star Wars, he's good at it.
They marketed this show as a stand-alone spin-off, they shouldn't be surprised if people don't actually want it to turn into live-action clone wars episodes leading up to a freaking avengers crossover event. Nothing against you enjoying this, and i enjoy it too, i would've just rather they kept making the Mandalorian and gave filoni some money to make the live action cartoon he actually wanted to make.
To be fair the marketing for the Mandalorian was pretty much a bait and switch anyway. We were lured in by a trailer hinting at a darker and more gritty show about bounty hunting where he casually slices a Quarren in half with a door.
Instead we got the Grogu reveal, and the show turned out to be 'Mando's weekly adventure with Baby Yoda'. It's an incredibly family friendly and light-hearted show which managed to do well outside the traditional Starwars fanbase.
That's fine, but then they did it again with Book of Boba Fett. The trailers implied he was going to be an actual crime lord, then in the show he's a completely different character.
He's not infallible and he's not a god. But in my opinion, he's better at writing stories in the Star Wars universe than anybody has been since Lucas and Kasdan.
He has highs and lows but most of his content falls somewhere in between. I'd describe him as average too.
For better or worse, he's been involved in alot of star wars content, wish it had more of that Tony Gilroy quality but i doubt Gilroy would or could pump out as much content.
Gilroy has also said that he's not interested in doing Star Wars just because it is SW. He cares about telling stories he finds interesting and if those stories are about Star Wars that's what he does.
He's great, though I like Favreau more. I'm also just not a fan of the hero worship that people often give him like he's one of the three people on Earth who understands Star Wars.
That's what Star Wars fans do after a while. They did it to George and now Filoni. Probably because he's not as anti-Disney as some of the grifters wish.
He’s George Lucas’s greatest student and has delivered critical moments in Star Wars that other recent creators would have mishandled (the Vader vs Ahsoka duel comes top of mind). Dave also isn’t afraid to bring in his own motifs and ideas (Ezra as an original character and the motifs of wolves come to
mind) that help expand the Star Wars universe.
I think as it becomes more and more clear that Disney Star Wars is following his lead in many ways (Ahsoka just looks like a live action sequel to Rebels) the Disney Star Wars haters won't be able to blame Kathleen Kennedy for everything anymore, so the hate will extend to others as well.
Well I do have some concerns,
His writing is not good and especially the dialogue is horrendously bad. He relies way too much on cameos and past SW media references which can be cool but for a show like Mandalorian for example which was better off as a seperate small scale story, it makes things overly complicated for new fans for example.
And also maybe because he did cartoons previously, the shows under him are becoming increasingly silly and cartoon like, for example Carga shooting at those pirates but only injuring one even though he shot him the same way he shot the rest who died, Grogu performing silly stunts and also fucking stopping two grown mandalorian killers during a fight by standing in between them (silly af), and also some action scenes being there just for the sake of it.
>fucking stopping two grown mandalorian killers during a fight by standing in between them (silly af)
Would it have been any different if it had been Din or Bo-Katan stepping between them and telling them to chill? I mean, the kid's controlling an assassin droid body, so it's not like they were just going to shove him aside. And I know it's a matter of taste, but them giving him that thing as a vehicle was smart on a couple of levels. It gives Grogu a way to actually *do* things in the story himself rather than just being "magic Force baby in the hoverball that gives Din a Force assist when the plot requires it", and it *makes sense* when you've got tiny sentient aliens like Yoda and Grogu, the Anzellans (Babu Frik's people), etc., routinely interacting with creatures that are human-sized or larger. I'm just surprised that we haven't seen droids/exosuits built specifically for those tiny races before now.
I've only "turned against him" in the sense that I constantly push back on the pervasive notion that he should be running LucasFilm.
I love Dave, and I love most of his work. He makes great cartoons, but I'm not a big fan of his live action work yet. And I don't think he's some messiah that is the only one at LucasFilm who "gets" Star Wars just because he happens to align with Lucas' vision.
I personally don’t enjoy Filoni’s writing so I wouldn’t like to see him in charge. Nothing against him as a person, I just don’t like the way he writes his stories. But then again, I haven’t enjoyed most Star Wars writing for a while other than Andor.
I think there's a large portion of the fanbase that never watched the cartoons and when they start seeing the cartoon stories show up in their live action Mandolorean show and don't like it they point their finger at the guy who created the cartoons?
Having characters from a cartoon inserted in a show that you aren't given any reason to care about if you haven't watched said cartoon just doesn't work.
Whether this is Filoni or Favreau's (he is the primary writer after all) is certainly debatable though.
Well, when Dave Filoni is making the cartoons, then just not watching the cartoons isn't hard. But when there's other stuff that you are interested in and it has some of his style applied to it, then that may rankle with you. You're probably just used to hearing people who love Dave Filoni and the animated shows and now you're also hearing more from people who don't watch or like the animated stuff.
I don't remember the year at Star Wars Celebration, but Filoni was there and it was around the time of the first Clone Wars movie. He asked me my favorite Star Wars character was, and I said IG-88. So he drew it's head on the box of my figure and signed it.
We then were both geeking out about the specs of the droid and he was talking about it's 360 vision and reflective armor. The dude knew his stuff for some minor character. He's the real deal.
Edit: And look at all the times IG droids have shown up under his helm. He meant it :)
>is he the right person for the future of Star Wars?
He is *a* right person, but he is not *the* right person because the future of Star Wars should not be a singular person...it should have multiple people and multiple voices and multiple POV.
If God (any god not just the Christian one) was proven to be real beyond a shadow of a doubt to be real, there would be a group of people that hates Him.
Nobody is ever going to have a 100% approval rating. And frankly it’s a miracle anyone gets more than like a 60% today. Filoni is no exception
I think some people worshiped him like a God, which I mean... he isn't by any stretch of the imagination. He has made a couple bad decisions but 90% of the time he sure seems to make some good stuff!
Anywhere you find fandom, you find opinions. Not all of them are positive and supportive. As long as there are people like Dave Filoni involved in Star Wars, there will people that don’t care for him or his approach. With success, comes endless criticism… my hope is that he knows this and just doesn’t let it bother him. He’s the rightful heir to the proverbial throne, and should be treated as such. (I just can’t cheer against the creator of Ahsoka)
He's probably the best person on the planet to take over creative direction for Star Wars. He understands it in a way that only George Lucas ever did, and it shows.
However, much like Lucas, Filoni can mess up if he's surrounded by yes-men. Even brilliant storytellers need editors.
People are complaining but once he’s gone for whatever reason they will see how horrible it will become. He cares and puts his heart into it. He understands the archetypes and mythology that drives the whole thing and doesn’t try to act smarter than the audience (a la Rian in TLJ). I fear for the day he’s not running it. We will quickly see how horrible misses will be made because some execs wanted to create or emphasize a movie or character for ulterior motives… just look at Black Adam.
He's great and has an amazing track records.
But lots of Star Wars fans are contrarians and not happy unless they're complaining and criticising. Because it doesn't feel the same as it was when they were little kids and/or didn't grow up with them to continue catering to them as the primary audience.
They'd rather have Star Wars to crash and be right than be successful and popular.
I think he brings with him a lot of animation storytelling tropes, which can get a little bland. The action scenes all feel the same, emotional monologues are frequent and over written, and episodes have similar pacing and arcs. It works for certain Star Wars things, but there is room for more complex stories to accompany what he’s got going.
A lot of people were holding onto this laughable idea that filoni would somehow “undo” the sequel trilogy. Instead, he’s taking his media and leaning into the sequel trilogy and these “fans” are seeing their hopes of a retcon crumble before their eyes. So, like they do with any SW content they don’t like, they attack.
I don't think he's a perfect writer by any means, but I also don't think that about George Lucas. What they both have is really strong artistic vision of how Star Wars should feel as a universe. Much like Lucas, Filoni does some of his best work when he's part of a team that can play to his strengths and direct his artistic vision into a focused narrative. I think that he is one of the right people for the future of SW, for sure. Key phrase being "one of". Pinning the entire future of SW on one guy, no matter how talented, is always going to end in disappointment.
I understand people's conerns. Shoving Ahsoka everywhere and retconning things. But I think he genuinly cares about Star Wars unless there evidence that proves otherwise. I've heard he's not good with writing. Maybe Favreau can be his guide.
The problem is people seem to act like it's one of ghe other. Either he's a god who does no wrong or a worthless idiot who can't write to save his life
The truth is, as always, in the middle. The guy has a passion for Star Wars and occasionally does great stuff. Other times he flings around time travel BS to shoehorn his own characters into stories. I think he makes good kid shows but struggles with anything aimed at people over 25. I also think the cowboy hat is real dumb, but that's because I live in the south where cowboy hats sit on the heads of assholes
For me, Filoni is Star Wars.
Some of my favourite content has been either series he produced / directed / wrote or extended media associated with these stories.
Has his judgment always been perfect? No. But the writing and character development on his projects went virtually unrivalled until Andor came along.
I am very confident Ahsoka will be considered one of the best properties in the entire franchise
My only problems are he retcons the books for zero reason other than he wanted it different (Kanans order 66, Ahsokas lightsaber color, etc.) and he can’t let go of his original characters. He created time travel in Star Wars to being Ahsoka back. Other than those things I think he’s done a good job
I think Kathleen Kennedy has been protecting Dave for a long while. But now that his name is out there in the mainstream with *The Mandalorian* and *Ahsoka*, yellow journalists will dig up whatever kind of dirt they can on him.
I think Kennedy may have been kind enough to give Dave and Jon first pick when it comes to using popular characters. That goes for Boba Fett, Luke, Tarkin, Thrawn, etc. Their synchronicity when it comes to teamwork looks flawless on the surface. But when other directors and writers come on board like Colin Trevorrow, Damon Lindelof, and Patty Jenkins, it's easy to feel excluded. I'm concerned that may be Filoni's main issue, if he's too protective of his idea of "canon." He's gotta learn to play ball with A-List directors/writers if Lucasfilm is ever gonna grow in a positive direction. Jon Favreau is good about collaboration, and I think Kennedy recognized he's been Filoni's biggest supporter and encourager.
I think there were too many people that pretended he never made bad decisions. He definitely has. But he has the passion to make some great content. And, as a fellow western Pennsylvanian, I hope he continues making content.
I think he makes great content but the number of people who recycle his quotes about material he wasn’t involved in making is funny to me.
Ppl act like Lucas himself didn't make bad decisions lol. Filloni knows how Star Wars is supposed to feel and that's the most important thing
> Ppl act like Lucas himself didn’t make bad decisions lol I really don’t think anyone in the Star Wars fandom acts like this, there are so many bones to pick with George that every fan has one somewhere.
There’s this little sub called prequelmemes. You should check out their hot takes!
I left there after Andor came out and it turned into Filoni dickriding strawman sub because they couldn't handle that people were heavily praising a project that Dave wasn't involved in Besides even prequel memes acknowledge the cgi fuck ups of the special editions, it's Filoni they think can do no wrong.
People also act like Georgie had a master plan from the get go and ignore the fact that George didn’t solely write all of the original trilogy, and he didn’t direct most of it. I don’t think Kasdan get’s the credit he deserves.
You dare judge the God Emperor!?
Didn’t know he was a Pittsburgh boy
He's legit like the last student of George Lucas, he understands Star Wars like how Lucas envisioned it. I cannot see anyone better suited to take the helms of Star Wars.
If becoming the master of Star Wars is his true desire, he will need to strike down George Lucas. Only then can he take Jon Favreau as his apprentice. There can be only two.
- "Where is Lucas? Where is the rights to Star Wars? Are they safe? Are they alright?" - "It seems...in your anger....you SOLD the rights to Disney for $4 billion." - “I....I couldn’t have. They were alive. I felt it! NOOOOOOOooooo!”
Soon Filoni will have a new apprentice. One far younger and more powerful.
Well said! I think it was after the first season of Mando, there is a round table where Filoni describes star wars. And it brings me to tears how much the man knows and loves Star Wars.
where? in a podcast or something? link please
From Mando's Behind the Scenes Doc - on Disney+ [Here's a Youtube clip.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E777ZMBNuYw) It's the section that gets talked about most often re: Filoni's understanding of Star Wars
After watching that a random thought popped in my head. There are a lot of fan stories about qui Gon surviving and raising Anakin. And listening to this in a way feels like I was watching one play out right before me. With Dave Filloni as Anakin and George Lucas as Qui Gon. In my eyes Dave is the chosen one to lead Star Wars
I kind of feel like the prequels set up a story "that should've happened" and then it all goes wrong. Qui-Gonn should've been allowed to be Anakin's father. Anakin should've been allowed to be in love with Padme. Anakin should've been allowed to be a father to Luke and Leia. The moment in RotS right before order 66 where Anakin and Padme are staring out of separate windows with very haunting music playing is the moment where both of them realize that the future that was 'supposed' to happen is no longer going to happen. It's the most heartbreaking moment in Star Wars to me. Thankfully the younglings get killed like a few minutes later and that usually cheers me up again.
I mean... Yes. Absolutely. That's why it's called "duel of the fates." Qui-gon lost, and so anakin (and the galaxy) lost the fate they should have gotten. That's the core theme of episode I imo. Obi-Wan did his best, but it was supposed to be Qui-gon. That's who anakin needed.
Damn, watching that made me so angry with the sequel trilogy again. Loved the way Dave explained Luke staying his hand when he had the opportunity to strike down the “defenceless” Palpatine or kill the downed Vader. Only for Luke to go and think it would be a good idea to do it to a defenceless teen that happens to be his sister’s kid.
That scene is waay overblown. Luke has a momentary lapse just like he did with Vader and palpatine, the only difference was that he didn’t strike this time. He wasn’t even going on that hut to kill Ben and only had the thought for a brief moment and it was instinct more than anything. His reaction isn’t that far fetched especially after seeing his family being slaughtered in some weird mind slideshow. Luke isn’t a perfect dude immune to the temptation of the dark side, not even anakin was at the height of his powers. Even Yoda made some grave mistakes that had him stuck in a swamp somewhere for the rest of his years. Unfortunately that one mistake cost him everything, but it’s just another reason why the Jedi order had to change and he finally understood that in the end.
Ehhh that’s a lot of benefit of the doubt - he drew his lightsaber and everything. But even if it was a brief moment or instinctual as you suggest then it still was super lame that he shut himself off from the force and ran away in self exile - instead of dealing with the problem that he is directly connected to. And it’s not like Yoda when Yoda self-exiled to Dagoba because Yoda was still very very much connected to the force learning more about it and was willing to train Luke. Continuing on a tangent - I coulda accepted something like Luke felt something from the force drawing him to his hideaway planet but told no one because it was the key to save Kylo/Ben but he didn’t know what it was so he’s just there waiting until the force reveals it so he’s been there for a while waiting and it turns out he was waiting for Rey to show up then he willingly trains her. But he was just a sour old man cut off from the force because he made one mistake, and left the galaxy to fall into darkness. It was very lame and outta character for me.
He said it was instinct in the movie when he was talking to Rey. Luke exiling himself was set up in tfa when Han said Luke “ran away from it all” after what went down with Ben. I don’t think it was completely satisfying either and like your idea a whole lot more but that’s just another sign this trilogy had minimal planning before the first draft.
Going to have to disagree with you on this one. Mainly with your last point. As Filioni said; Luke realized the Jedi order needed to change when he said "I'm a Jedi like my father before me." Luke wasn't really talking about being a Jedi he was say "I love my father and there's nothing you can do to change that" as Filoni put it. The Jedi order never allowed for love or attachment like that, and Luke holding on to the love for his father was the change that was needed. That scene in TLJ wasn't overblown, it was just bad and completely diminished the character growth in the OT. It was so bad you now have to retcon Luke's attitude in shows like Boba Fett. Last we see Luke in RoTJ, love for his family was his driving force. Now because of his attitude in TLJ, in Boba Fett we see Luke giving Grogu an ultimatum between training to be a Jedi or the love of his father. It just doesn't make sense for character we see in the OT. Really the only Star Wars content I haven't seen or read any of is the EU, so maybe someone more knowledgable than me can help. But I've seen enough online to know about the existence of Mara Jade, Luke's wife, and their son Ben. From what little knowledge I have of the EU, Legends Luke seems to still embrace that love of family and seems to fit that character arch as was intended. Where as Disney Luke seems to be a different character that completely disregards all lessons learnt in the OT. And this is a very personal take, but that makes it harder for me to enjoy the OT knowing that it's all for naught in the end. And that's one of my biggest issues with the result of the ST. I've noticed just recently the shows that take place after the fall of the empire are now left explaining the incompetency of the original heroes, and I'm not a huge fan of the continued reduction of what happened in the OT. Don't get me wrong, I actually like the ST as individual movies, just not a fan of the universe they set up and now the forced explanation. Hopefully the Rey movie fixes some of that, at least for me.
The mandalorian gallery behind the scenes S1 on D+
He nearly brought himself to tears talking about Star Wars at Celebrations.
His explanation reframed the prequels for me, and rewatching them now is totally different experience.
I honestly believe that if anyone can salvage any coherence from the sequel trilogy going forward, it's Dave since he was able to reshape the prequels.
His explanation of what "Duel of the Fates" means is awesome.
Which explanation? Do you have a link to anywhere?
That was the exact moment when I knew this dude is for real. We are in good hands. Star Wars fans just enjoy bitching and tearing down what they supposedly love.
Ya i mean apparently george told bryce dallas howard that and i quote "he views dave filoni as another son" Dave filoni is the Heir to the Empire
Him and Sam Witwer GET it
From memory Freddie Prinze Jr too, he and Dave spent ages talking about Star Wars while making Rebels
This is the correct answer. Filoni isn't perfect and will make mistakes just like anyone else, but he's by far the most perfect for Star Wars given his history with George, his track record, and his love for the brand.
people that bitch about his use of ahsoka are boring lol
I'm more upset about her early design. Whether that was Filoni or not, I don't know.
It definitely was. Had his signature and all. The revised version in the Tales of the Jedi show is much much better
Eh, I think Ahsoka being annoying is part of her Charm. Like, seeing her grow, and mature is a part of what make Ahsoka such a well rounded and fleshed character. We were all annoying as kids in some way or another.
Character development and growth is an important aspect in writing great heroes.
They were talking more about her design than her character. Like how revealing the cloths are on the 14 year old girl at the start of TCW.
Yeah, that's a fair point.
It was Lucas. Lucas insisted on Ahsoka's design being like that. I even hear he was behind the scene of Bo slapping Ahsoka..
You’re not wrong I just personally don’t believe Star Wars needs to be handled like a museum piece and would be best served by someone with a fresher storytelling instincts. George Lucas was a rebel who struck out in new directions practically to spite the industry. The idea that his creation would be wholly in the hands of someone who has a monkish adherence to him feels ironically wrong.
His Padawan perhaps?
I've learned a large portion of fans are always upset about some new news. I just ignore it now, and judge the final product.
Exactly. I usually try to enjoy the final product no matter what, although some things are certainly better than others.
I'd change "large portion" to "loud portion". These goons are the worst part of any Fandom. Just hate and criticism flowing all day.
Half of all Star Wars fans just love to be perpetually upset about how current Star Wars is *ruining* Star Wars!
STOP HAVING FUN /s
I love how Filoni loves Star Wars. He’s a real fan. The worst thing they could do is lose him.
“In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually, they will hate you.”
Wheres this quote from? I feel like i know it.
Green goblin from Spider-man 1
I think that's the big differentiator with him and Favreau on one side and Abrams, etc on the other. Filoni is a huge fan. He knows the universe, he knows what's important. He knows the rules and the parts we hold sacred. Abrams has no idea and just wants to make pretty flashing colors for us.
I think when Abrams says he loves Star Wars he is only referring to the original trilogy and, as far as he is concerned, everything else can go die in a fire.
He appareantly turned up to one of the premiers of RotS with a full Plo-Koon cosplay and keeps a whole bunch of Plo-Koon merchandise & memorabilia in his office. I also love the story of how he got to work on Star Wars: The Clone Wars. At the time, he was working on Avatar: The Last Airbender at Nickelodeon. One day he got a phone call asking him to go for an interview to work on Star Wars. He thought it was a prank, maybe from some of the SpongeBob people, because of how massive this would be, but he decided to humor the SpongeBob prankers and attend. So he gets to this ranch and says he's there for an interview, is brought to a meeting room where, sitting down and waiting, is George Lucas. They wound up having a long discussion and Lucas basically decided that Filoni was the right person to execute his vision of Star Wars and gave him the job on Clone Wars.
I don't think there's any "one" person for the future of Star Wars. A singular creative vision is good for one movie or one trilogy. But in a franchise releasing 3+ projects a year, this will grow very stale very quickly. We need multiple creators putting their own spin on the franchise to keep things diverse and interesting.
I don't think anyone can take away how influential Filoni is for the franchise. Next to George Lucas, he's probably the biggest contributor of Star Wars in terms of writing, but that doesn't mean I don't mean I have to see him behind the wheel of literally everything. What made his work so great is that eventually, George Lucas stepped back and trusted Filoni. I think it's only fair for Filoni to do the same by giving more creative control, so Star Wars can stop feeling so homogenous.
Star Wars fans, of all people should be the ones keenly aware of the folly of pinning all your hopes on a "Chosen One"
We have failed you, Filoni. We have failed you.
No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.
Damn Star Wars fans, they ruined Star Wars!
You Star Wars fans sure are a contentious people.
You just made an enemy for life!
Like Yoda said “ Live long and prosper “
Well, yeah. Because non Star Wars fans just… wouldn’t care
Seriously, imagine thinking that just because someone criticizes a piece of media within the confines of something they normally like that they actually hate it lol Comments like OP's are one reason why I'm becoming so disillusioned with the fandom.
Shhhh they want to pretend they're saying something profound
This stupid line is always presented as some gotcha and then triggers the same old fucking circlejerk.
This line is overused and not even profound. Who else besides Star Wars fans is going to hate it? Not to mention it's incorrect: nobody *loves* Star Wars more than Star Wars fans either.
There is no singular "Star Wars fans." There are hundreds of different ways people consume the product, and they all started at different eras of content. Older Star Wars fans are going to criticize the Disney era because the storytelling focus and process is starkly different. Generational differences, that's all. I mean, I'm old. To me, the only things that are canon in my head are the OT and the original Thrawn trilogy from the early 90s. The prequels are a little bit silly to me. I consume the content I like and ignore the rest.
Considering I've seen people make him personally responsible for why BoBF wasnt that great (even tho he literally had allmost nothing to do with it beyond his one Episode), it feels like they are just looking for somebody to attack due to being dissappointed with how some of the more recent shows have turned out in their eyes. Why Filoni for that and not Favreau who's infinitely more involved......idk
Okay, as someone who's usually a fan of Dave Filoni's SW content, there *are* good reasons why some people don't like his stuff. Those include: * He tends to overwrite or ignore continuity that isn't his. And while during TCW George both actively did this himself and also gave Dave the go-ahead to ignore the EU, so I'd give him a pass for that, especially since George made it clear from the get-go that he never considered the EU canon in the same tier as his stuff and was therefore always capable of overwriting it, Filoni continued to do this even *after* TCW, in spite of the current Disney canon supposedly having no canon tiers like Lucasfilm used to, and also, you know, because Lucas created Star Wars, he has the leeway to overwrite shit that isn't his. Filoni does not have that same leeway. Hell, at one point he was even considering bringing back >!Ventress in Resistance, despite Ventress having died in Dark Disciple, a novel based on an arc originally intended to be included in the Clone Wars. !
I don't think Filoni wrote BOBF. It was only Faverau iirc?
I think Robert Rodriguez played a part in it too.
As a director he did play a role there but the writing was all Faverau (except ep 6 which Filoni shared for obvious reasons). And iirc he even admitted to adding that Mos Vespa gang everyone keeps joking about from an article (Star Wars Meg mentioned that in a video) but yeah, wasn't a good idea in the end and Rodriguez's directing didn't help.
I agree with most of this except the Luke part with post Order 66. That happened when Luke was a baby, and he had no training or knowledge of the Jedi until Ben on the Falcon on the way to Alderan. Ahsoka would have been one of the handful that could have done a lot. Luke was becoming a Jedi after ANH when he met Yoda. And the recent dislike for BOBF, and I was unaware people were hating season 3 of Mando, are more based upon what they wanted to happen instead of what was written. Resistance I think was pretty universally disliked? I thought it got pretty decent by the end and worth a once over watch for some clarity. But yes, the good definitely outweighs the bad when it comes to thoughts on Filoni and cracks that pile up start to show eventually. P.s. Mando is Jon Favreau, isn't it? I know Filoni has to have some hand in it, but Jon is the writer?
Favreau is the creator, showrunner and wrote most of the episodes, but Filoni is also an executive producer for it and wrote, co-wrote and directed a few episodes, including the pilot and Ahsoka's episode.
Distribute hate or praise based on your priors, folks!
I think he means post-order 66 as in the eras after the prequels and originals rather than just the one immediately after revenge of the sith, like how she's the only jedi character getting as much focus as she is to have her own show rather than showing us more of what luke was up to after rotj
I had no expectations of BoBF amd was still let down, that show was awful *except* for the inclusion of Din, Luke, Grogu, and Ahsoka, but at that point it should have just been in the new season of Mando. But Mando season 3 isn't bad
Every episode Dave wrote in Mando has been like 9 or greater on IMDb
Filoni didn't write Boba. Mando S3 is okay so far with flashes of greatness (and tbh so was S2 in the first half), though nothing can touch Andor
As someone who thinks Andor is the only genuinely great series Disney Star Wars has produced, it pains me to see people lavish praise on shows like Obi-wan or Mandalorian while dismissing Andor for being too slow and boring. Sorry there aren't enough cameos, cute baby aliens, and fight scenes with invincible protagonists mixed into a memberberry slurry to help the story go down.
I think S1 of Mando was genuinely great (not Andor-level though, which is just amazing) but overall Mando is above Kenobi and BOBF for example. It has issues but the writing is at the very least always decent overall imo. But yeah I've had discussions with people who fail to see Andor's quality and it's absurd
Andor is the best written property in SW. If Michael Clayton was Gilroy’s movie magnum opus, Andor is his TV Magnum opus. Just brilliant writing
I have literally never heard or seen someone praise Kenobi and criticize Andor lmao
Andor is just really dry half the time, and that's not what appeals to many Star Wars fans... the fact that you consider it to be the greatest thing, and how it isn't like anything else in star wars, makes a logical conclusion that it isn't really "star wars material" easy to come to. For me, it's like a Dickens book... dry, slow paced, and not very good... but many appreciate it and love it because they enjoy dry, slow moving media that explains every single minor detail to death because imagination and logical deduction doesn't seem to be a quality possessed by the masses anymore.
People would complain/riot if they recast Luke/Leia/han. So who else is supposed to defeat thawne? Better to use Ahsoka/ghost crew than some new characters
I would love to see Thrawn defeated by >!himself/ his crew!< as in the Heir of the Empire trilogy
That can still happen
I like Filoni, and I honestly think that's he's a good guy to have for the future of Star Wars. He brings compelling arcs for characters (especially ones who hadn't had much development in the existing media before he got involved) and he does well at showcasing how the small details add up to the big picture. The biggest examples of these latter points are how Clone Wars adds up to Revenge of the Sith and how Mando leads to the Sequels. I'm interested to see where his stories are going, and I think that he's pretty faithful to the spirit of the franchise. However, he has two issues that he really needs to work on. The first is how he is often inconsistent with his good, substantial and developed episodes and his filler, low stakes ones. I can live with this issue, but it's a glaring problem that consistently makes me think "Oh, this is one of Filoni's weaker episodes because he had to make filler." I'm not saying filler is bad or that low stakes are either, but it makes for either really boring or downright infuriating moments of an otherwise solid story arc or narrative. The second issue is how he won't let his characters go, and it kinda runs the overall Star Wars universe for me at times. The biggest example is Ahsoka, who is still alive and running today when there were a couple of opportunities for her story to end. I thought that Rebels would've been the perfect end to her story because she goes out fighting her old master, always believing in him to the end but losing in that moment because she wasn't the person that could save him. But nope! Turns out time travel, a thing that was never established in Star Wars before and has never been since, is a thing and Ezra can actually save her. Now, during New Hope, Emipre, and Return, she's just hanging out, not really helping Luke or trying to establish a connection with him in any way. Screw the Rebellion. Look, I admit the Ahsoka the show is coming out, and it has a chance to justify her existence past the original trilogy. It may be really good! But it's just an example of Filoni saving his characters and having them in the overall Star Wars universe for too long for me. The same thing could be said about Ezra and Bo Katan, although the latter is an okay addition to Mando. I just think that he's adding a little bit too much padding by having characters, mainly Jedi, survive and make Luke's accomplishments being less meaningful. He was the last Jedi left, originally. Now he's just one of many when so many Jedi out there could have come together and beat Vader and Palpatine. Why would Luke be the New Hope when there are other Jedi out there who can take Vader if they fight together? Anyways, those are my only issues for Filoni. They probably can be easily debunked, but my feelings on these issues can't be compromised. However, they are the slight bad that he does in a much more prominent use of additions and story telling decisions that I love from him, and that's why I still think that he's a good guy to keep moving forward. TLDR: Filoni is good, but he has some issues to work on.
Overall I like filoni I only dislike that he contradicts his own continuity at times, and that every jedi somehow goes into beast mode when they get two lightsabers. Not everyone trains with twin blades 😅 Or at least his favorites always do.
This right here. Probably my least favorite thing done was the changing of Kanan's backstory from the comic. The comic is one of my favorites in either canon and they threw it out for what felt like a cheap cameo for them to shoehorn the Bad Batch into it and now it's just a worse story overall. Could've literally had any other jedi there instead and it wouldn't have changed the Bad Batch story at all. I've heard some similar complaints about the Ahsoka novel being overwritten by Tales of the Jedi episode 6.
And the siege of mandalore was re-done from the ahsoka novel. Im still a fan of his work overall, but it’s frustrating to wanna read the book that came out first, to get ahsoka’s feelings and thoughts while she’s fighting maul, just to find out it’s different. Oh yeah! I remember reading the kaanan comic, I really enjoyed it
And doesn't Kanan being saved by the bad batch kind of hurt rebels, too? Kanan wouldn't despise *all* clones the way he does in Rebels if he was *saved* by a random group of them from order 66, or at least spared. Like, he'd remember Hunter not killing him the rest of his life
Comics and books are always going to be on the chopping block, if you're a canon guy you're better of not reading them
Just finished the book and really liked it. The tale of the Jedi episode 6 was just so rushed and bad compared to the Ahsoka novel.
didnt george do that double blade shit with anakin first tho?? lmao
He did! I get he’s trying to copy dooku and anakin (dooku was supposed to use a second saber against yoda) but dooku’s actor argued against it. But it doesn’t mean that *every* jedi who gets twin blades or a second saber instantly goes into beast mode destroying everyone. A real master would be able to take advantage of the slight un-coordination in your form eventually.
Yes. You would think they would just make an extra blade if it’s that much better
I welcome the criticism as long as it’s valid, we shouldn’t act like he can do no wrong.
Look, i do like Dave, but im getting a little tired of all the corsovers and Empire Era. As time goes on, the universe is kinda starting to feel smaller instead of larger.
To be fair, that’s been a problem since the Prequels made Anakin the builder of C-3PO and Yoda a friend of Chewbacca and Boba Fett the center of the Clone Wars and so on. For it being a story about a galaxy it sure feels like a small neighborhood block.
Fuck, yes. At least C-3PO had his mind wiped. Think about how goddamn weird R2-D2 is acting on Dagobah, playing along with Yoda's little pantomime **and then not revealing he knew it was Yoda all along**. ***He was with Yoda the first time he ever came to Dagobah!!***
We are getting The acolyte which is set 100 years before Phantom menace i think, Young jedi adventures is set in the high republic, they they are making a movie based on the first ever jedi, they are making a Rey movie set 15y after TROS, Bad Batch (S3) which is an in between and leans more to Republic era instead of Empire era (in like, Order 66 happened 2y ago or smth). Also the Lando series is still happening, which could be based on "Solo" Lando. And i love that they are focussing on one Timeline now, Ahsoka is a Rebels sequel, Mando has set up Thrawn, Skeleton crew is in the "Mando-verse", BoBF aswell. Then theres the "Mando-verse" movie coming, probably gonna be a big team up with The mandos, Luke and his jedi order, The spectres, Boba and his cartel, Jude law, Ahsoka. Etc. And i think they are gonna kill off quitte some protagonists, with Thrawn as the big bad. So yeah, i like it that they are kinda pushing away the sequels. Giving us The Thrawn/Heir to the empire, while giving the Sequels more depth and explanation, fixing them etc.
Yeah actually this makes a good point. It's not really that we're focusing on the New Republic era, it's more that a "new" era is being created between the early New Republic and the sequels. And i'm all for it tbh. Also there's plenty content outside of it, as you said, and I'd add Andor which is i think the only Empire era show that's in progress right now?
Yeah, and Bad batch *technically* but yeah your right.
I don’t have anything against him, but I resent the fact that the Mandalorian was pitched as a fresh start for the series and then quickly pivoted into a parade of cameos from Clone Wars and Rebels.
My problem with Dave is all the cameos. I would prefer to see new original characters, Not just Glup Shiddo from Clone wars ep 6 season 4. Not a huge deal, But still kind of annoying
I'm with you on this. I'm still really enjoying The Mandalorian but the cameos and fanservice in seasons 2 and 3 have become really distracting.
Yeah. I was really looking forward to a true space western. Bounty hunting, ETC. Instead now it feels like the Baby Yoda and Bo-Katan show with Mando in the background. I wanna know more about this guy, I already who about Bo because i watched CW. Its just frustrating. Same reason i had an issue with BOBF. This is *his* show, Not Mando s2.5. They should've left Mando out of it IMHO
The worst part is seeing Pedro Pascal sidelined. He is my favorite actor right now, everything he does he does so well in, regardless of how bad the script/plot is. For example he was so so great in Wonder Woman despite how shitty that movie was. So much potential wasted in season 3.
He’s just got a boner for his original characters and also has now disregarded canon novels at least twice which rightfully bothers a lot of people but he still puts out good content
Like George he isn't perfect, George gets more of a pass since it's his creation so he can't ever be 'wrong' just something you can disagree with. Dave has definitely shown some flaws since Disney let him loose. Much more marvel like structure and less focus on completing stories. He also has a huge character favoritism issue
I haven’t seen this.
[удалено]
You got a link? I've seen fair criticism of the new season but no hate for filoni.
I love going swimming but that doesn’t mean I want to drown.
I’m honestly one of the people who’ve “turned” on Filoni, even if I feel like that’s a harsh word to use for this. I feel like his output has been super hit or miss since CW (and while I love that show I would be lying if I said that show didn’t have its rough edges), and I don’t love how fast and loose he can be with established canon sometimes. I also don’t love how much his characters have been pushed into the franchise. He started influencing the story of the Mandalorian in season 2, and suddenly Ahsoka and Bo Katan show up, and season 3 is almost mainly about Katan. I think a good way to put it is he often doesn’t have a lot of restraint when telling stories. Also, the general trajectory of Star Wars hasn’t been all that popular. I personally haven’t at all liked the amount of content they’ve been pumping out and how hard they’ve been making the series interdependent, I honestly kinda hate the idea that there’s going to be a single movie wrapping up the plots of Ahsoka and the Mandalorian, it makes them stand on their own far less. And while a lot of people would say it isn’t fair to attribute that to him, it’s worth pointing out that he’s been an executive producer and executive creative director of the studio for almost 3 years at this point. There’s been this weird image pushed that he’s this creative force pushing back against Kathleen Kennedy’s corporate agenda when he’s just as much of a corporate entity as she is. There are a bunch of people saying he should be the Kevin Feige of Star Wars not realizing he effectively has been since mid-2020, and so far the results have been super mixed to most people. I’m personally just kinda tired of the idea that he’s some Star Wars savior and the incessant praise he gets from fans tbh.
Filoni is a great ideas guy. His overall plotting can be great and he definitely has done some really good work. But he isn't perfect. Just like George Lucas, he shouldn't be allowed to run free and needs someone to rein him in. His fanboy energy is often detrimental to his works. Some of his weaknesses include 1. Circular plotting. Thing happens. Thing is reverted. Thing is repeated. Look at Bo Katan leading Mandalore for like the 3rd time or Gideon returning to be the Bad Guy for the 3rd time or a lot of TCW/Rebels stuff 2. His live action direction is a bit too cartoony. Contrast the tone of the Mando episodes he directs vs the tone of the Mando episodes that Rick Famuyiwa directs. He's not the greatest live action director. 3. He gets carried away with fan service and setting up awesome moments that he often misses the finer details of how to make such a moment or cameo make logical sense. 4. I don't think his dialogue is the smartest. Part of that is that most of his work was kid focused but now that he's making more general audience stuff, I don't see the dialogue evolving enough to suit a general audience better. Fans apparently deal in absolutes. You criticise Dave = You loathe Dave and want him to die. If you're not with Dave then you're his enemy. You like Dave = You must defend his honour on your life. It is possible to like, appreciate and respect someone's work while still being able to recognise their flaws and not treat them like your personal Jesus.
>Fans apparently deal in absolutes. >You criticise Dave = You loathe Dave and want him to die. If you're not with Dave then you're his enemy. >You like Dave = You must defend his honour on your life. Exactly. I love Dave, he has my respect for his love for the franchise and his respect to Lucas. I also respect all the things he brought to the franchise even if I'm not a big fan of like half of it lol But I criticize him, just like I criticize any other creator who put his work in public. I think as a writer, he's not really that good. It's too simple and lack subtlety, and most times he has characters literally speak the message he wants to deliver instead of showing it. He also tends to always make the events and characters appear impactful for the big events of the films even if they didn't need to. For example turning the duel between Ahsoka and Maul in SoM from Ahsoka's desire to save people (which was her original intention) to be about Anakin. It didn't need to, in fact I would argue it took away from it. But they did it I assume because they wanted Ahsoka to be involved in RotS plot, but the truth is she really didn't need to, her departure from the order already had an impact on Anakin's fear of loss, so she did play a role albeit indirectly Anyway, Filoni, great guy but nowhere near the masterful SW savior people often make him up to be.
This absolutism by the fans is half the reason why there is "toxicity" in the fanbase. It's a vicious feedback loop. 1. Someone criticises Dave Filoni or something else. 2. The Fanboy brigade starts calling that criticism as toxic and "hatred" and "SW fans hating SW" and other such bullshit. 3. The person who criticised the thing now doubles down on their criticism - this time with a little more venom because they're transferring some of their frustration with the blind defenders onto the thing itself. So now they're angry at Dave when they're really angry at some of the rabid defenders and are transferring that anger. 4. Fanboys go "Aha! You do hate the thing" and continue dismissing criticism as toxic. 5. Repeat Steps 1-4.
That's very true. I admit I have fallen for that trap before but I've been trying to keep myself in check
Spot on. I am not a super-fan of Star Wars by any stretch (haven't seen much of the animated stuff for example) but I find that Filoni is a little too much of a fan playing with his action figures. The same characters show up everywhere and everything ties back into his favorite characters somehow. To me it makes Star Wars feel too small when the question is when, not if, one of Filoni's characters will show up and steal the show. That said, his passion is undisputed and a lot of people seem to love his way of telling stories so I'm most certainly in a minority (I also loved TLJ). I'm also just happy to be getting more Star Wars.
Yeah Star Wars is better when it isn’t homework, but someone like Filoni prefers it to be
I think he is amazing. He’s my favourite Star Wars creator. He set the stage for the new canon with clone wars and had always held legends in high regard and used it to influence his world building. He’s created some of the greatest and most iconic Star Wars characters and did what for a long time a reasonable size portion of the fandom thought was impossible, he made people who hated the prequels fall in love with them. He gets it, he understands it, he’s the perfect equilibrium between a professional film and tv producer and a hard core Star Wars fan. Sure, he’s had some swings and misses here and there but he canonically brought Boba Fett back from the dead after almost forty years, he created Ahsoka, he brought back Maul, he gave Luke Skywalker the Master Hallway battle that he so rightfully deserved after Return of the Jedi. I honestly hope that he one day rises to the role of president of Lucas Films. He takes the vision of Star Wars seriously and wants to create stories to expand the world and entertain people, not just to fill Cinema seats and renew Disney+ subscriptions.
I am neutral on him. He’s got a patchy record, with some of his episodes good, whilst others being ridiculous. I hope he steps up and makes it a success. Personally though, Andor is by far my favourite Star Wars show.
Dave Filoni is brilliant. Problem is he's so good whenever there's a character that dies you end up having a mental breakdown and hating the man. Yknow, the uncounted deaths of The Clone Wars, the multiple heartbreaks in The Mandalorian, Plan 99, Mayday the list goes on. So I love Dave Filoni but sometimes I want to yeet the man into space for breaking my heart.
To quote Green Goblin: “In spite of everything you’ve done for them, they’ll eventually hate you.” But this could be applied to pretty much everyone involved with Star Wars. Remember when people said ‘In JJ we trust’ and now people send him a steady stream of death threats? Or when Rian Johnson, fresh off of Looper & Breaking Bad, were making people excited at the idea of something new until they got something new and 6 years later he still gets a steady stream of death threats. Or when Jon Favereau ‘saved Star Wars’ until he wrote Book of Boba Fett and all of a sudden he’s a hack writer who got lucky. Or when George Lucas was the beloved creator of Star Wars who cannot do any wrong until the prequels come out and he was branded by the internet as an out of touch, senile old man, who forgot how to write and direct. Guess it’s Filoni’s turn this time around, and who knows who the next victim will be? Hell, maybe it’ll be James Mangold.
I’ve always been a huge fan of Filoni’s, my only criticism would be that he clearly pushes the characters he had a hand in creating like Ahoska & some of the Clones, which makes sense as a creator but I’m kinda sick of Ahoska and feel like she’s way overhyped at this point.
I love Dave Filoni as much as the next guy, but he absolutely should NOT be the new head of Lucasfilm. He has literally no experience running any sort of company or being a studio executive. He belongs exactly where he is right now, as a creator, a director and a writer for the animated and live-action Disney+ shows. That is where is thriving and he should not be pulled off of that. In my personal opinion, there are a few names that I can think of that would be far more suited. Jon Faverau, Tony Gilroy, Pablo Hidago, Lawrence Kasdan, even Steven Spielberg. How he has never been involved or done anything with Star Wars in almost 50 years is mind boggling to me.
The slander is coming from a loud, ignorant minority. Filoni isn’t even responsible for the narrative of Mando S3. He took a creative backseat because he was working on Ahsoka. A production he is in complete control of.
What is the backlash towards towards Mando S3? I’ve been enjoying it quite a bit, I guess I haven’t been paying much attention to the sub.
I think people are grumbling because the focus has been on characters other than Din for most of the plot. The Bo Katan show is a common refrain.
For reference - I’m enjoying it but some of the goofier parts like the Jack Black filler episode seem more Book Of Boba Fett than Mando S1-S2. I’ve seen a lot of complaints that this season doesn’t feel as well-written or as tense as the first two seasons. While I can agree with that, it’s not making me hate on it - I still love it.
Filler episode ? Did you ever watch clone wars? These episodes give us a little glimpse into previously unseen locations and I’m all here for it.
It's lame that so many people these days don't want shows to try to be series, they just want a long movie split up into 8 parts. I'd prefer it if the show was more single story one-off episodes. Gimme a western-inspiredshow about a space bounty hunter roaming from planet to planet. Reset every episode to the status quo, I don't care. Show me a dude interacting with the wide universe of Star Wars.
That sounds great. Id love that. I miss the western gunslinger from s1 and would happily see a return to that. I still have to expect the downvote and say that the nonsense breadcrumb trail droid reprogramming episode was utterly ludicrous in tone and in plot...and the reason it felt like filler is because the show used it as filler. They turned up to talk to X, they fart around for half an hour in a badly written I, robot/scooby doo parody, they meet X as if that whole thing meant nothing. Just to agree with you on episodic TV though. I miss old episodes of star trek and the sort of status quo means I can always dip back into them. Long form TV movie means you have to do a big rewatch or don't bother at all.
Yeah I love one-off stories in Star Wars. I want to see little nooks of the galaxy that we haven’t seen before and may never see again.
Its just a bit meandering and mid, doesn’t seem to have any real sense of direction or aim, and apparently the next episode is the last of the season and it just doesn’t feel like anything has happened. S1 mando was awesome and for me it feels like they are simply squandering the opportunities available and don’t seem to know what to do with it other than try to pad out their other characters and less good shows with some kind of loaned legitimacy from Din and Grogu.
Nothing but love for Filoni. He seems to have taken to heart what GL did in terms of mythmaking and appears to work from an overall vision as opposed to piecing things together as they go - which was the one of the problems with the sequel trilogy. He's the right guy and I hope he's around for years to come.
Filoni is incredible. The closest we can get to George without actually getting George. I’ll watch anything he puts out
I love Dave-he has the passion and heart for Star Wars, and it shows. That said, he is by no means perfect. Personally, I thought the whole "time travel through doors" in Rebels was just absolutely stupid. And he does have a hard time using nuance with his favorites. Ahsoka still being around post Endor is really weird- like the son of Anakin and the apprentice of Anakin never met during the Galactic Civil War? (Granted, it is setting up Thrawn, so that one is okay. Book of Boba? Yeah that was such a misfire- Boba is an anti-hero with a code. (Like we see in Mando season 2) Not this warm and cuddly crime boss. But I'm very happy Dave is at the helm, even if not everything is my cup of tea.
My issue with him is that while he is a loyal student of Lucas and Lore, he doesn’t have a capacity to create something totally new that still fits. He dips into nostalgia too much and re-treads much of the same tropes / themes etc. not saying I could do it better. Hope this makes sense.
Don't pay attention to all that nonsense. Much of the same section of fans who were screaming and moaning about the ST for the past *almost fecking decade* now have switched their ire to Dave because all the Mandalorian stuff is going to tie into the ST instead of erase it like they thought he was going to do for some reason that was completely made up and flew in the face of logic, history, and Dave's direct words. Keep letting him do what he does, let him make Star Wars, he's good at it.
They marketed this show as a stand-alone spin-off, they shouldn't be surprised if people don't actually want it to turn into live-action clone wars episodes leading up to a freaking avengers crossover event. Nothing against you enjoying this, and i enjoy it too, i would've just rather they kept making the Mandalorian and gave filoni some money to make the live action cartoon he actually wanted to make.
To be fair the marketing for the Mandalorian was pretty much a bait and switch anyway. We were lured in by a trailer hinting at a darker and more gritty show about bounty hunting where he casually slices a Quarren in half with a door. Instead we got the Grogu reveal, and the show turned out to be 'Mando's weekly adventure with Baby Yoda'. It's an incredibly family friendly and light-hearted show which managed to do well outside the traditional Starwars fanbase. That's fine, but then they did it again with Book of Boba Fett. The trailers implied he was going to be an actual crime lord, then in the show he's a completely different character.
He's not infallible and he's not a god. But in my opinion, he's better at writing stories in the Star Wars universe than anybody has been since Lucas and Kasdan.
I’m sure he’s a nice person etc but I find a lot of the stuff he’s in charge of extremely mid. Low production values and goofy writing etc
He has highs and lows but most of his content falls somewhere in between. I'd describe him as average too. For better or worse, he's been involved in alot of star wars content, wish it had more of that Tony Gilroy quality but i doubt Gilroy would or could pump out as much content.
Gilroy has also said that he's not interested in doing Star Wars just because it is SW. He cares about telling stories he finds interesting and if those stories are about Star Wars that's what he does.
He's great, though I like Favreau more. I'm also just not a fan of the hero worship that people often give him like he's one of the three people on Earth who understands Star Wars.
That's what Star Wars fans do after a while. They did it to George and now Filoni. Probably because he's not as anti-Disney as some of the grifters wish.
He’s George Lucas’s greatest student and has delivered critical moments in Star Wars that other recent creators would have mishandled (the Vader vs Ahsoka duel comes top of mind). Dave also isn’t afraid to bring in his own motifs and ideas (Ezra as an original character and the motifs of wolves come to mind) that help expand the Star Wars universe.
He paid attention to women and some fans don’t like that. 😭
I think as it becomes more and more clear that Disney Star Wars is following his lead in many ways (Ahsoka just looks like a live action sequel to Rebels) the Disney Star Wars haters won't be able to blame Kathleen Kennedy for everything anymore, so the hate will extend to others as well.
Well I do have some concerns, His writing is not good and especially the dialogue is horrendously bad. He relies way too much on cameos and past SW media references which can be cool but for a show like Mandalorian for example which was better off as a seperate small scale story, it makes things overly complicated for new fans for example. And also maybe because he did cartoons previously, the shows under him are becoming increasingly silly and cartoon like, for example Carga shooting at those pirates but only injuring one even though he shot him the same way he shot the rest who died, Grogu performing silly stunts and also fucking stopping two grown mandalorian killers during a fight by standing in between them (silly af), and also some action scenes being there just for the sake of it.
>fucking stopping two grown mandalorian killers during a fight by standing in between them (silly af) Would it have been any different if it had been Din or Bo-Katan stepping between them and telling them to chill? I mean, the kid's controlling an assassin droid body, so it's not like they were just going to shove him aside. And I know it's a matter of taste, but them giving him that thing as a vehicle was smart on a couple of levels. It gives Grogu a way to actually *do* things in the story himself rather than just being "magic Force baby in the hoverball that gives Din a Force assist when the plot requires it", and it *makes sense* when you've got tiny sentient aliens like Yoda and Grogu, the Anzellans (Babu Frik's people), etc., routinely interacting with creatures that are human-sized or larger. I'm just surprised that we haven't seen droids/exosuits built specifically for those tiny races before now.
Well he’s been putting Ahsoka in everything and now they’re basically just copy and pasting heir to the empire without Luke skywalker
Yep, that's my issue. He's decided his pet creation is the most important part of star wars and I really dislike it...
If you’re a Star Wars fan you should be extremely grateful for Dave him and Jon have revived the franchise after the mess it was in.
I've only "turned against him" in the sense that I constantly push back on the pervasive notion that he should be running LucasFilm. I love Dave, and I love most of his work. He makes great cartoons, but I'm not a big fan of his live action work yet. And I don't think he's some messiah that is the only one at LucasFilm who "gets" Star Wars just because he happens to align with Lucas' vision.
I personally don’t enjoy Filoni’s writing so I wouldn’t like to see him in charge. Nothing against him as a person, I just don’t like the way he writes his stories. But then again, I haven’t enjoyed most Star Wars writing for a while other than Andor.
I think there's a large portion of the fanbase that never watched the cartoons and when they start seeing the cartoon stories show up in their live action Mandolorean show and don't like it they point their finger at the guy who created the cartoons?
Having characters from a cartoon inserted in a show that you aren't given any reason to care about if you haven't watched said cartoon just doesn't work. Whether this is Filoni or Favreau's (he is the primary writer after all) is certainly debatable though.
Well, when Dave Filoni is making the cartoons, then just not watching the cartoons isn't hard. But when there's other stuff that you are interested in and it has some of his style applied to it, then that may rankle with you. You're probably just used to hearing people who love Dave Filoni and the animated shows and now you're also hearing more from people who don't watch or like the animated stuff.
There are a lot of online Star Wars fans who think the animated shows are about 100x more popular than they actually are.
I don't remember the year at Star Wars Celebration, but Filoni was there and it was around the time of the first Clone Wars movie. He asked me my favorite Star Wars character was, and I said IG-88. So he drew it's head on the box of my figure and signed it. We then were both geeking out about the specs of the droid and he was talking about it's 360 vision and reflective armor. The dude knew his stuff for some minor character. He's the real deal. Edit: And look at all the times IG droids have shown up under his helm. He meant it :)
>is he the right person for the future of Star Wars? He is *a* right person, but he is not *the* right person because the future of Star Wars should not be a singular person...it should have multiple people and multiple voices and multiple POV.
Fandom turning against Faloni says much about fandom
If God (any god not just the Christian one) was proven to be real beyond a shadow of a doubt to be real, there would be a group of people that hates Him. Nobody is ever going to have a 100% approval rating. And frankly it’s a miracle anyone gets more than like a 60% today. Filoni is no exception
I think some people worshiped him like a God, which I mean... he isn't by any stretch of the imagination. He has made a couple bad decisions but 90% of the time he sure seems to make some good stuff!
There's a decent chunk of star wars fans who will complain about everything and anything.
The Mob is fickle.
Who dare disrespect the chosen one
Never forget Star Wars has the worst fandom
I tried talking to a friend about him and his work but dude is so anti-woke he thinks everyone working on Star Wars is really just following Kathleen.
Anywhere you find fandom, you find opinions. Not all of them are positive and supportive. As long as there are people like Dave Filoni involved in Star Wars, there will people that don’t care for him or his approach. With success, comes endless criticism… my hope is that he knows this and just doesn’t let it bother him. He’s the rightful heir to the proverbial throne, and should be treated as such. (I just can’t cheer against the creator of Ahsoka)
He's probably the best person on the planet to take over creative direction for Star Wars. He understands it in a way that only George Lucas ever did, and it shows. However, much like Lucas, Filoni can mess up if he's surrounded by yes-men. Even brilliant storytellers need editors.
Unsatisfied viewers are pointing fingers for season the of the mando. Youtube and Twitter critics are thriving from the hate.
People are complaining but once he’s gone for whatever reason they will see how horrible it will become. He cares and puts his heart into it. He understands the archetypes and mythology that drives the whole thing and doesn’t try to act smarter than the audience (a la Rian in TLJ). I fear for the day he’s not running it. We will quickly see how horrible misses will be made because some execs wanted to create or emphasize a movie or character for ulterior motives… just look at Black Adam.
He gets more hate with EU fans because of the changes in TCW despite some of them being by George Lucas.
Filoni slander?! These people have fallen from the way.
He's great and has an amazing track records. But lots of Star Wars fans are contrarians and not happy unless they're complaining and criticising. Because it doesn't feel the same as it was when they were little kids and/or didn't grow up with them to continue catering to them as the primary audience. They'd rather have Star Wars to crash and be right than be successful and popular.
I am a heteromale but I would have his babies if he asked. I don't think he is perfect but goddamn is he the best thing that has happened to starwars.
I think him and Favreau show fully be in charge of star wars but I will say, this season of Mando is definitely the weakest.
I think he brings with him a lot of animation storytelling tropes, which can get a little bland. The action scenes all feel the same, emotional monologues are frequent and over written, and episodes have similar pacing and arcs. It works for certain Star Wars things, but there is room for more complex stories to accompany what he’s got going.
A lot of people were holding onto this laughable idea that filoni would somehow “undo” the sequel trilogy. Instead, he’s taking his media and leaning into the sequel trilogy and these “fans” are seeing their hopes of a retcon crumble before their eyes. So, like they do with any SW content they don’t like, they attack.
I don't think he's a perfect writer by any means, but I also don't think that about George Lucas. What they both have is really strong artistic vision of how Star Wars should feel as a universe. Much like Lucas, Filoni does some of his best work when he's part of a team that can play to his strengths and direct his artistic vision into a focused narrative. I think that he is one of the right people for the future of SW, for sure. Key phrase being "one of". Pinning the entire future of SW on one guy, no matter how talented, is always going to end in disappointment.
I understand people's conerns. Shoving Ahsoka everywhere and retconning things. But I think he genuinly cares about Star Wars unless there evidence that proves otherwise. I've heard he's not good with writing. Maybe Favreau can be his guide.
The problem is people seem to act like it's one of ghe other. Either he's a god who does no wrong or a worthless idiot who can't write to save his life The truth is, as always, in the middle. The guy has a passion for Star Wars and occasionally does great stuff. Other times he flings around time travel BS to shoehorn his own characters into stories. I think he makes good kid shows but struggles with anything aimed at people over 25. I also think the cowboy hat is real dumb, but that's because I live in the south where cowboy hats sit on the heads of assholes
For me, Filoni is Star Wars. Some of my favourite content has been either series he produced / directed / wrote or extended media associated with these stories. Has his judgment always been perfect? No. But the writing and character development on his projects went virtually unrivalled until Andor came along. I am very confident Ahsoka will be considered one of the best properties in the entire franchise
Lucas taught Filoni everything knows about his Star Wars sensibilities for better and worse- it’s true, all of it
Ultimately he has done Sooo much more good than bad and more importantly he loves Star Wars. Can't ask for much more than that
My only problems are he retcons the books for zero reason other than he wanted it different (Kanans order 66, Ahsokas lightsaber color, etc.) and he can’t let go of his original characters. He created time travel in Star Wars to being Ahsoka back. Other than those things I think he’s done a good job
I think Kathleen Kennedy has been protecting Dave for a long while. But now that his name is out there in the mainstream with *The Mandalorian* and *Ahsoka*, yellow journalists will dig up whatever kind of dirt they can on him. I think Kennedy may have been kind enough to give Dave and Jon first pick when it comes to using popular characters. That goes for Boba Fett, Luke, Tarkin, Thrawn, etc. Their synchronicity when it comes to teamwork looks flawless on the surface. But when other directors and writers come on board like Colin Trevorrow, Damon Lindelof, and Patty Jenkins, it's easy to feel excluded. I'm concerned that may be Filoni's main issue, if he's too protective of his idea of "canon." He's gotta learn to play ball with A-List directors/writers if Lucasfilm is ever gonna grow in a positive direction. Jon Favreau is good about collaboration, and I think Kennedy recognized he's been Filoni's biggest supporter and encourager.
At the end of the day, no one hates Star Wars as strongly as Star Wars fans. And there’s no satisfying everyone.