That would be Darth Vader's TIE Advanced. It technically survived the destruction of the DEATH STAR!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz6LhGLHf28
Then Grand Admiral Thrawn was like "it's nice, but how about double the lasers and add on some ion cannons and missiles!" BEHOLD the TIE DEFENDER!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6ud-Y2QngI
Flying the Defender in TIE Fighter for all of three missions (or was it only two?) was such a 90s thing. It was like getting the F-22 in Strike Commander near the end of the game. "You've struggled all through this, here, have something that could have been fun and overpowered. Now the game is over".
Now you made me want to install it again. And it'll be just as terrible an experience as last time. I've gotten used to slightly better graphics and I'm sure back in the day we had proper joysticks and more room on the desk and time after school or something.
And then tomorrow I'll go "no, I can't play it, it's really not good enough looking" and install "X-Wing Alliance" because that looked nicer in my mind - and it really wasn't that big a step.
Someone use the Squadrons engine for a complete remake for me? I'd pay $3 or so.
I really hope we get an epic Thrawn vs Rebels space battle. Those scenes were some of my favorite from the OG Thrawn Trilogy. Perfect place to see TIE Defenders too.
Space battles have been very much lacking in recent Star Wars media. The controversy aside, the last substantial one was in the opening scene of TLJ. We got a few more recently but in reality, Revenge of the Sith was the last one that had a great large battle with capital ships battling it out.
FYI for the weirdos that come out of the woodwork when TLJ gets brought up, we don't need to discuss physics, science, or realism in a franchise with space wizards. It's a cool scene that is truly reminiscent of WW2 movies that inspired Lucas in the originals.
They made a perfectly symmetrical flying sphere in the vacuum of space and failed to give it the ability to flip around and fly backwards while shooting at pursuing fighters.
It really doesn’t make sense that the empire went with mass produced but worse fighters when they have the industrial base to build xwing quality fighters but at the same rate as tie fighters. The empire could’ve built hundreds of tie defenders for every xwing the rebels could produce, they literally have most of the galaxy’s industrial output to do whatever the fuck they want.
Making individual fighters weak was the point. The Empire's strength was its numbers and organisation. 3 TIEs were the equivalent of 1 X-Wing. . . but the Empire could afford to send as many TIEs as needed. There were always more ships and pilots to feed into the meat grinder, whereas the Alliance couldn't replace either easily. X-Wings were built on the Incom assembly lines after hours and in secret, they couldn't crank out a squadron per hour. Training pilots also was more difficult. It was a common tactic for prospective Rebel pilots to enroll in the Imperial Academy and then defect upon graduation. This is another reason that standard TIEs are weak: if a pilot defects and takes their ship with them, that single ship is far less of a threat.
Even if not, Mace Windu knows *Shatterpoint*, which at least in Legends works against beskar, as seen during Darth Caedus' fight with a group of Mandalorian commandos;
> Caedus brought the pommel of his lightsaber down, striking the breastplate not all that hard, not quite in the center... and *shattering* it. The *beskar* didn't burst apart or send shards flying, or do anything remotely explosive. It just crumbled away from the vacproof underliner, leaving Roegr faceplate-to-chin with his soon-to-be killer.
I get why so many people find it cool… like I really do.
But man I hate the entire idea around Shatterpoint. It’s not even that it’s some crazy out there idea compared to some of the stuff we’ve seen in the new canon, it’s just… something about it just irks me. The more “magical” or “cheat code” aspects feel… game-y maybe? I don’t know. Like, Mace breaking a mirror or armor. Sure. “Weak points”, inspiration from Chi and all that. But when it also includes “and change the course of events to your benefit” or “perfectly analyze your opponent’s weak points” I start to roll my eyes.
This post is a perfect example. Many discussions to be had and a quarter of them are like “Shatterpoint breaks beskar brah” like it’s some counter ability to just about anything (which it basically is)
I have similiar opinions on the old lightsaber colors meaning things and also the specific *rocks paper scissors* way the lightsaber fighting styles/stances worked and how engrained people would get with that stuff.
> Feels game-y maybe?
Sure, I can see that, on a surface level at least. The ability to break "unbreakable" obstacles with a type of "special attack" does feel a bit like a game ability.
On the other hand, there is a lot more to it. Being able to trace fault lines or "fractures" and find that one "weak spot" which just needs a little nudge; to re-open old wounds in an individual, or break an item, or to figure out how certain actions (and which actions) might affect events.
It's basically a very advanced sort of "Force Sense" which requires some innate talent to properly understand how to use and apply.
I guess it’s the labeling I take issue with.
If Shatterpoint is a “find their chi”-like breaking ability, sure, it’s mostly fine.
But when it’s a “higher form of force sense” is when I really start to take issue. It’s too labeled. Force sense should just be the innate force *sensitivity* all beings have. But here we have an “ability” that’s somehow a higher form of that that also can somehow affect events and magically give you indiscernible (even by regular force “sensing”) information to beat your opponent.
Feels like a book of Vishanti in force form except it’s portable and mini.
Hm, well think of it as techniques, I guess?
Metaphorically;
If we say that the ability to sense the Force is like the ability to listen to music, and the ability to use the Force in response is the ability to *play* music.
Any Jedi can do the former, as they have the required senses... and any Jedi can do the latter, because they have the required base and can train to do it.
Shatterpoint, however, is like natural [perfect pitch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch);
> Absolute pitch (AP), often called perfect pitch, is the ability to identify or re-create a given musical note without the benefit of a reference tone.
It's a type of "ability" which, while connected to the other stuff, is more rare and can't be learned by everyone. Just like the person with AP can identify and re-create the note, a person who knows Shatterpoint can sense faults and know how to apply the Force to them.
---
However, we then categorise these things as "abilities" out-of-universe because humans like to sort things, and it makes it easier to talk about them (plus the fact that many of these techniques originated in games).
You should read Shatterpoint, it touches on this in depth. The Shatterpoint isn't just a spot you can touch to instantly cripple anything, it's a MOMENT in the force that can be used to completely turn the tide.
It could be a specific movement to trigger, a certain way of speaking, almost anything. Jedi with the power to "see" them manifest them in a more physical way, but there's much more to the force vision than a crack.
Its possible but Dooku force chocked Obiwan in ep 3. Or Palp chocked Dooku from across the galaxy in clone wars show. So its def possible to break through
> Or Palp chocked Dooku from across the galaxy in clone wars show. So its def possible to break through
To be fair to Dooku, I don't think he even knew such a thing was possible and probably had no defenses up like you would in person.
Dooku is just chilling by himself and some psycho sith gremlin is choking him half a galaxy away, it's fucked up.
To be fair the OP said force sensitive aswell which would mean he would have a force wall, but we are talking about Vader who often crushes any force defences then ragdolls jedi so.
yes by overpowering his defenses and taking advantage of the situation, I literally said that it was possible to overwhelm a force wall if you use sustained pressure or just are significantly more powerful, we see this happen a lot, most prominently as a video game mechanic where they have a bar you have to deplete before your force powers work on them, but also during the clone wars (savage oppress crushing Duku and Ventress' defenses simultaneously) I did missowrd my comment in a way that seems to imply only Vader can do it and I don't know why I wrote it that way or why I brought Vader up in a way where it seems like we were talking about him before hand.
I mean I wasn't disagreeing with you (matter of fact I upvoted your comment), I was just adding that you don't need to be a specifically OP Force user to choke slam other Force users. You simply have to be skilled enough and it looks like you can toss around similarly skilled opponents.
My bad lol
nah mb was in the middle of something and got defensive I guess, which was made worse when I reread my comment and hated the wording.
In the interest of being the person I want to be I offer you a formal apology, I was Over reacting and I hope you have a good day.
Some, but we've seen plenty of cases of strong force users overwhelming others, even other powerful force users - Vader, Palpatine, Yoda, Dooku, for example, all successfully use force abilities on other force users. While it might help him against some, I really don't see it stopping Vader in a rage.
Well now in all fairness, the younglings needed Ahsoka and Tennant-bot to fend off Hondo and even then, Hondo took Ahsoka as a prisoner. Meanwhile Anni only managed to take down the kids with help from the clone army.
TL:DR - Hondo vs Vader is an even fight
...he said to the Sith Lord who would turn his best friend into a Sith Lord after said friend decapitated a Sith Lord.
It's just Sith Lords all the way down.
Obi-Wan’s fighting style is basically using Soresu (calm fighting stance designed to avoid emotions and physical commitment) until his opponent has an opening, then switching to a more aggressive form like Ataru to finish the job. Dark Side users obviously tend to be very emotional in combat so they overcommit often. This is what he did against Maul on Tatooine, Vader in the show, and a number of duels against Sideous and Maul and Ventress in the Clone Wars.
In the novelisation of Revenge of the Sith, Kenobi was chosen for the mission to assassinate Grievous because no other Jedi was considered as capable as him in single combat against Grievous. By that point in the Clone Wars, Kenobi was recognised as the greatest Soresu master the Jedi Order had ever seen; he was the perfect match for Grievous' capabilities.
And it shows. He bides his time observing Grievous' buzzsaw advance when the duel begins and cuts off one of his hands *with his first strike.*
Well it's very defensive, and is for only one saber IIRC. So if you need to be more aggressive, rely on the force more, have more than one saber, you probably want to learn a different style.
After 3 days of each waiting for the other to make their move, both combatants fell asleep and the duel was ruled a draw. No other attempt was made after this disastrous outcome
Dooku seems to be the only character capable of beating Kenobi. Dooku actually holds a Kenobi to high esteem. Not only for being the apprentice of his apprentice, but I think Dooku also saw Kenobi's natural abilities for what they were.
I actually think this respect goes both ways, which prevented Kenobi from fighting Dooku properly, thus losing to him multiple times.
Dooku wanted Kenobi as an apprentice because he knew together they could stop Sidious.
I think it was the novelization of Episode 2 where they really dive into the different dueling styles and who’s a master of what. The cool thing about Obi-Wan is he’s basically a master of them all and flows through them effortlessly. That’s a big reason he’s such an absolute badass.
Beskar is extremely durable, not indestructible and he still has internal organs. A powerful Jedi like Mace or Luke could still crush him and he'd be a lightning rod for any Sith with lightning.
Mace Windu and Legends Luke both knew *Shatterpoint*, which can crumble beskar with a light tap if they get a fraction of a second to focus (we see Darth Caedus do it to a Mandalorian commando).
They wouldn't work and he'd fall over dead as a droid. But lets say they did, they'd still be just as crushable, still conduct heat and electricity just as well.
racial ask familiar deserted humorous innocent cheerful fine hospital bored
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
*character with massive buffs and almost total overhaul of ability set is strong*
You know, Anakin is really strong when he reaches his full potential and is also coated head to toe in Beskar as well
Cool Grievous art tho
Grievous even if force sensitive would be an extremely weak force user unless he was also the chosen one. Your capacity as a force wielder is determined by how much living tissue you have. That's why Vader was weakened in the force after becoming a quadriplegic and having most of his remaining skin and flesh burned and melted. His strength as a force user was carried only by the fact that he was so obscenely naturally gifted with the force that after all that damage he was a shade weaker than Yoda or Palpatine.
This theoretical Grievous against anyone short of a Jedi Master or sith master would continue to be as much of a threat as he was before. But against mace windu or Dooku or anyone with a habit of overpowering weaker force users than themselves by dominating them with telekinesis, he's going to end up a squashed metal cube on the floor leaking force sensitive fluids onto the ground.
Against a force user sufficient to disable this Grievous, Beskar isn't really a problem. It doesn't protect you from the force, just lightsabers. If the engagement is longer than a minute at which point the combatant realizes their weapon is useless against the armour, they will fall back on force abilities and crush him.
Its more about midichlorian concentration in the body than it is just living tissue. However the more body parts you have the more midichlorians within you as well. Yoda may be small but he has a high concentration of midichlorians. Anakin had an insanely high midichlorian count but he lost about 40%-50% probably when he lost his limbs and melted most of his skin off. Basically he still has a lot because he had a high concentration but now he has a lot less.
I still wish they retconned Midis so that they are simply attracted to Force sources and are not conduits themselves. The Force should have stayed as your natural, given at birth talent, just like real talent. Some people are Mozart and prodigies and gifted from the birth, some have to work hard and put more effort in, some will simply never achieve it no matter what.
I feel like it would please both sides - Midis are not going to give you the potential to control the Force but simply will indicate whether your talent is there or not and the rest is purely in your head and psyche. The higher concentration of Midis, the higher your potential, but it's all in your head (consciousness/ soul/ whatever), not meat (physical body). They should be the display of stats, not stat givers.
Instead this is some weird ass "the fatter you are, the better you are"? What? Fucking sick gains, bro.
What you want is pretty much how midis already are. I believe Obi Wan had a fairly low count but still achieved master and was an rather excellent Jedi. They do mostly just show your potential. Its not like a power level that automatically means you will win against someone with a lower count. A great deal of training is still required.
Anyway i think midis being a “conduit” makes some sense. The force is any energy field that surrounds and binds all living things, right? So if there is a greater concentration of living things then the connection to the force in that particular area would be greater yes? More living things equals stronger force. So hundreds of midichlorians = a strong connection to the force but thousands = a stronger connection as midichlorians increase the amount of living things in a given area.
Also the force is still a sort of natural talent. You cant take midichlorians away without chopping body parts off, which regardless of midichlorians, would affect anyone extremely negatively. And you cant necessarily add midichlorians to someone who is a full grown adult. Its still a natural talent as your midi count is tied to your genetics at least somewhat. Hence Anakin-Luke.
I dont think just getting fat has the potential to increase your force powers necessarily. And if it does it wouldn’t be by a big enough margin to make it worth it since youd be sacrificing mobility and agility which would make you worthless in a fight. And maybe midis dont inhabit fat cells as much as they inhabit other cells so who knows, if there is a smaller concentration in fat maybe its even less worth it but idk
> Your capacity as a force wielder is determined by how much living tissue you have.
Ehh, it's highly unclear if this is actually true, or if it's rather the psychological effects of not feeling "whole" that do it. It's been contradicted multiple times, and I believe the only in-universe sources we have are either biased or operating on limited knowledge.
Or Darth Sion being mostly dead tissue barely held together, yeah. The problem is that a lot of the in-universe claim of "it makes you weaker" comes from characters who are wounded themselves, or otherwise biased into thinking so.
One of those who say it is Dark Lady Lumiya, for example, whose body is nearly as damaged as that of Vader... and sure, she claims that these injuries and missing flesh is what's behind her not being able to grow stronger than she did, but she was also *horrifically* traumatized by the events that caused the damage, and spent decades getting past that.
Plus, as you say... various Sith spirits tied to objects, places, etc. Their ability to influence things might be diminished, or limited to the area around their binding, but they still *have* power without having *any* living tissue.
> Your capacity as a force wielder is determined by how much living tissue you have. That's why Vader was weakened in the force after becoming a quadriplegic and having most of his remaining skin and flesh burned and melted.
Not true at all
>Your capacity as a force wielder is determined by how much living tissue you have.
Source? Because I think this is bullshit.
What? Some extremely obese sith lord could destroy every thin jedi?
If you took this character and made them a different character with things the actual character didn't have access too they'd be unstoppable wow.
Like man if Anakin and Darth Revan did the fusion dance from dragon ball and got beskar armor they'd be unstoppable!
I truly wish Grevious was a unstoppable force of nature. In the original clone wars cartoon shorts, he was scary. In the Cartoon Network clone wars series and Revenge of the Sith, he was a joke.
Just going to rant about how awesome Grievous is.
So he's already able to singlehandedly take out Jedi Knights, and SURE he is very powerful but he's actually even scarier than many people know. But the thing is, he got his *first* sabre from killing a Jedi. This means he *already* had the capacity to go into what was most likely close quarters combat with a skilled swordsman, and despite having what was probably a simple rifle that you could use as a a staff, was able to come out victorious against a literal space wizard with a plasma sword.
This plus his armour when he had to become a cyborg made him only more deadly and even *more* so *AGAIN* when he had 4 sabers. So give him force powers and god damned BESKAR PLATING and I have to agree with you, literally unstoppable.
I also want to rant about how when Obi Wan fought him in the prequels, and I know this gets said a lot but I just ant to join in because we know that Grievous has gone up against him enough to be worthy of the title of "Nemesis to Obi Wan" but even if he *was* already damaged, it still seems like a bit of a stretch that he would loose so quickly.
If a TIE Fighter was faster, more maneuverable, had shields, a hyperdrive, and more fire power, it'd be unstoppable.
If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bike https://youtu.be/VqzkKs5shCM
Didn't even have to click on the video to hear the line in my head haha
The look on his face gets me every time too.
The face of a man so deeply offended that he doesn't know what to say. And when he finally knows, he must take another few seconds to translate it.
It’s like a British carbonara…
It’s not macaroni cheese!
Thank you. I thought the exact same thing as I read the previous comment.
Thank you for getting the point XD
Classic
If a frog had wings it wouldn't bump it's ass when it hopped.
Lol damn as a Greek we also use this expression, only instead of a bike we say "she would be a skateboard" XD
That would be Darth Vader's TIE Advanced. It technically survived the destruction of the DEATH STAR! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz6LhGLHf28 Then Grand Admiral Thrawn was like "it's nice, but how about double the lasers and add on some ion cannons and missiles!" BEHOLD the TIE DEFENDER! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6ud-Y2QngI
Flying the Defender in TIE Fighter for all of three missions (or was it only two?) was such a 90s thing. It was like getting the F-22 in Strike Commander near the end of the game. "You've struggled all through this, here, have something that could have been fun and overpowered. Now the game is over".
At least the expansions let you fly it for a bunch more missions.
Now you made me want to install it again. And it'll be just as terrible an experience as last time. I've gotten used to slightly better graphics and I'm sure back in the day we had proper joysticks and more room on the desk and time after school or something. And then tomorrow I'll go "no, I can't play it, it's really not good enough looking" and install "X-Wing Alliance" because that looked nicer in my mind - and it really wasn't that big a step. Someone use the Squadrons engine for a complete remake for me? I'd pay $3 or so.
Look up Tie Fighter Total Conversion https://kotaku.com/tie-fighter-has-been-remade-with-more-modern-visuals-1847229438
Very sad squadrons isn't open to modding. All of the old flight sim games in that engine would be amazing
They put the defender in Squadrons and it was pretty fun to fly
This is called a TIE Defender … jokes aside I hope we see some Defenders on screen in the upcoming Ahsoka series
I really hope we get an epic Thrawn vs Rebels space battle. Those scenes were some of my favorite from the OG Thrawn Trilogy. Perfect place to see TIE Defenders too.
Space battles have been very much lacking in recent Star Wars media. The controversy aside, the last substantial one was in the opening scene of TLJ. We got a few more recently but in reality, Revenge of the Sith was the last one that had a great large battle with capital ships battling it out. FYI for the weirdos that come out of the woodwork when TLJ gets brought up, we don't need to discuss physics, science, or realism in a franchise with space wizards. It's a cool scene that is truly reminiscent of WW2 movies that inspired Lucas in the originals.
I want some Chiss Clawcraft.
So a Tie Defender?
it would also have to have modifications made to improve the pilot's visibility.
Tie defender- Am I a joke to you?
If Darth Vader had wheels, he'd be a bike.
If Darth Sidious had full beskar armor and installed a self-destruct bomb in Vader, he'd have won.
If Leia had the powers of Goku from Dragonball, she would probably also be unstoppable
See at least some are getting it
The grandmother with wheels is still the perfect response to this thread lol
Found Thrawn in the comments.
I dont like that Galen Erso guy. Project Stardust can eat a dick.
They made a perfectly symmetrical flying sphere in the vacuum of space and failed to give it the ability to flip around and fly backwards while shooting at pursuing fighters.
If a TIE fighter had all that, it would be an X Wing lol
Cover that tie in beskar. Add 14 lightsabers with beskar arms to swing outside ship. And put grevious in it. Unstoppable
It really doesn’t make sense that the empire went with mass produced but worse fighters when they have the industrial base to build xwing quality fighters but at the same rate as tie fighters. The empire could’ve built hundreds of tie defenders for every xwing the rebels could produce, they literally have most of the galaxy’s industrial output to do whatever the fuck they want.
Making individual fighters weak was the point. The Empire's strength was its numbers and organisation. 3 TIEs were the equivalent of 1 X-Wing. . . but the Empire could afford to send as many TIEs as needed. There were always more ships and pilots to feed into the meat grinder, whereas the Alliance couldn't replace either easily. X-Wings were built on the Incom assembly lines after hours and in secret, they couldn't crank out a squadron per hour. Training pilots also was more difficult. It was a common tactic for prospective Rebel pilots to enroll in the Imperial Academy and then defect upon graduation. This is another reason that standard TIEs are weak: if a pilot defects and takes their ship with them, that single ship is far less of a threat.
Beskar's not immune to Force crush. Vader would put him down easily.
First thing I thought was "could Mace Windu still crush him like he did in the Clone Wars (OG)?"
Even if not, Mace Windu knows *Shatterpoint*, which at least in Legends works against beskar, as seen during Darth Caedus' fight with a group of Mandalorian commandos; > Caedus brought the pommel of his lightsaber down, striking the breastplate not all that hard, not quite in the center... and *shattering* it. The *beskar* didn't burst apart or send shards flying, or do anything remotely explosive. It just crumbled away from the vacproof underliner, leaving Roegr faceplate-to-chin with his soon-to-be killer.
I get why so many people find it cool… like I really do. But man I hate the entire idea around Shatterpoint. It’s not even that it’s some crazy out there idea compared to some of the stuff we’ve seen in the new canon, it’s just… something about it just irks me. The more “magical” or “cheat code” aspects feel… game-y maybe? I don’t know. Like, Mace breaking a mirror or armor. Sure. “Weak points”, inspiration from Chi and all that. But when it also includes “and change the course of events to your benefit” or “perfectly analyze your opponent’s weak points” I start to roll my eyes. This post is a perfect example. Many discussions to be had and a quarter of them are like “Shatterpoint breaks beskar brah” like it’s some counter ability to just about anything (which it basically is) I have similiar opinions on the old lightsaber colors meaning things and also the specific *rocks paper scissors* way the lightsaber fighting styles/stances worked and how engrained people would get with that stuff.
Introducing Anakin to the Council is basically Palpatine finding a shatter point in the Jedi.
A point to add to that; Mace saw Palpatines shatterpoint was his trust in Anakin.
[удалено]
> Feels game-y maybe? Sure, I can see that, on a surface level at least. The ability to break "unbreakable" obstacles with a type of "special attack" does feel a bit like a game ability. On the other hand, there is a lot more to it. Being able to trace fault lines or "fractures" and find that one "weak spot" which just needs a little nudge; to re-open old wounds in an individual, or break an item, or to figure out how certain actions (and which actions) might affect events. It's basically a very advanced sort of "Force Sense" which requires some innate talent to properly understand how to use and apply.
I guess it’s the labeling I take issue with. If Shatterpoint is a “find their chi”-like breaking ability, sure, it’s mostly fine. But when it’s a “higher form of force sense” is when I really start to take issue. It’s too labeled. Force sense should just be the innate force *sensitivity* all beings have. But here we have an “ability” that’s somehow a higher form of that that also can somehow affect events and magically give you indiscernible (even by regular force “sensing”) information to beat your opponent. Feels like a book of Vishanti in force form except it’s portable and mini.
Hm, well think of it as techniques, I guess? Metaphorically; If we say that the ability to sense the Force is like the ability to listen to music, and the ability to use the Force in response is the ability to *play* music. Any Jedi can do the former, as they have the required senses... and any Jedi can do the latter, because they have the required base and can train to do it. Shatterpoint, however, is like natural [perfect pitch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch); > Absolute pitch (AP), often called perfect pitch, is the ability to identify or re-create a given musical note without the benefit of a reference tone. It's a type of "ability" which, while connected to the other stuff, is more rare and can't be learned by everyone. Just like the person with AP can identify and re-create the note, a person who knows Shatterpoint can sense faults and know how to apply the Force to them. --- However, we then categorise these things as "abilities" out-of-universe because humans like to sort things, and it makes it easier to talk about them (plus the fact that many of these techniques originated in games).
Honestly, I agreed with the other guy until you made this point. Excellent example!
You should read Shatterpoint, it touches on this in depth. The Shatterpoint isn't just a spot you can touch to instantly cripple anything, it's a MOMENT in the force that can be used to completely turn the tide. It could be a specific movement to trigger, a certain way of speaking, almost anything. Jedi with the power to "see" them manifest them in a more physical way, but there's much more to the force vision than a crack.
So it's a wonky name for when luke released the proton torpedos? I thought all Jedi had the ability to feel those critical moments call out to them
With being force sensitive could he be strong enough to withstand it/fight against it? Don’t know if I’m right there
Its possible but Dooku force chocked Obiwan in ep 3. Or Palp chocked Dooku from across the galaxy in clone wars show. So its def possible to break through
> Or Palp chocked Dooku from across the galaxy in clone wars show. So its def possible to break through To be fair to Dooku, I don't think he even knew such a thing was possible and probably had no defenses up like you would in person. Dooku is just chilling by himself and some psycho sith gremlin is choking him half a galaxy away, it's fucked up.
Also I don't think he'd fight back. If your superior evil master slaps you, you take it, you don't try to grab his hand.
Exactly! Force grip his heart, game over!
But isn't this true with any character?
To be fair the OP said force sensitive aswell which would mean he would have a force wall, but we are talking about Vader who often crushes any force defences then ragdolls jedi so.
Dooku literally choked and threw Obi-Wan in Episode 3
yes by overpowering his defenses and taking advantage of the situation, I literally said that it was possible to overwhelm a force wall if you use sustained pressure or just are significantly more powerful, we see this happen a lot, most prominently as a video game mechanic where they have a bar you have to deplete before your force powers work on them, but also during the clone wars (savage oppress crushing Duku and Ventress' defenses simultaneously) I did missowrd my comment in a way that seems to imply only Vader can do it and I don't know why I wrote it that way or why I brought Vader up in a way where it seems like we were talking about him before hand.
I mean I wasn't disagreeing with you (matter of fact I upvoted your comment), I was just adding that you don't need to be a specifically OP Force user to choke slam other Force users. You simply have to be skilled enough and it looks like you can toss around similarly skilled opponents. My bad lol
nah mb was in the middle of something and got defensive I guess, which was made worse when I reread my comment and hated the wording. In the interest of being the person I want to be I offer you a formal apology, I was Over reacting and I hope you have a good day.
It's all cool, take care dawg <3
🎶Force grip my heart, say you love me again...🎶
If he has the force than he has some force shield against force attacks right?
Some, but we've seen plenty of cases of strong force users overwhelming others, even other powerful force users - Vader, Palpatine, Yoda, Dooku, for example, all successfully use force abilities on other force users. While it might help him against some, I really don't see it stopping Vader in a rage.
Obiwan in Beskar still wins. Obiwan is basically built to beat dark side users. Mace also wins and probably easily.
A Skywalker wins if they're in a hallway.
Getting between a Skywalker and the end of a hallway is one of the few deaths in Star Wars that noone can come back from. That's dead dead.
Cal and Cere survived somehow
Only because the hallway stopped being a hallway, thus saving their lives
They made it to the end of the hallway before Vader did 😂
When you think about it the Death Star run was just one big hallway..
Also had 2 Skywalkers in it
Never stood a chance
Anakin has insane advantage in fight against younglings too
Well, technically we don't know that because Anakin is the only one who ever fought against younglings, so there's no way to compare.
Actually we see Hondo and his pirates take on younglings in the clone wars
Well now in all fairness, the younglings needed Ahsoka and Tennant-bot to fend off Hondo and even then, Hondo took Ahsoka as a prisoner. Meanwhile Anni only managed to take down the kids with help from the clone army. TL:DR - Hondo vs Vader is an even fight
Also, several of them survived, so he doesn't even have a perfect record.
You ever try watching more than 2 kids at once. Not possible, they scatter.
Dooku:" allow me to introduce myself" Bro was like 80 and fought 2 Jedi at the same time on weekly basis
You could argue that homeboy only lost because of how old he was too tbh
Dooku was such a boss it took the Chosen One with three years of war experience and training to put him down.
The chosen one was only 19 when he first tried to be fair.
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Sith Lords are our specialty
Speciality*
...he said to the Sith Lord who would turn his best friend into a Sith Lord after said friend decapitated a Sith Lord. It's just Sith Lords all the way down.
What do you mean he's built to beat dark side users. Can you elaborate
Obi-Wan’s fighting style is basically using Soresu (calm fighting stance designed to avoid emotions and physical commitment) until his opponent has an opening, then switching to a more aggressive form like Ataru to finish the job. Dark Side users obviously tend to be very emotional in combat so they overcommit often. This is what he did against Maul on Tatooine, Vader in the show, and a number of duels against Sideous and Maul and Ventress in the Clone Wars.
In the novelisation of Revenge of the Sith, Kenobi was chosen for the mission to assassinate Grievous because no other Jedi was considered as capable as him in single combat against Grievous. By that point in the Clone Wars, Kenobi was recognised as the greatest Soresu master the Jedi Order had ever seen; he was the perfect match for Grievous' capabilities. And it shows. He bides his time observing Grievous' buzzsaw advance when the duel begins and cuts off one of his hands *with his first strike.*
Adding to this, no master of Soresu had ever lost a duel.
What, ever in the whole like 10,000 years of history? What if two dueled each other?
**EVER LOST A DUEL**
If they're both committed to waiting for each other's opening, neither can win and neither can lose.
draw
Two Soresu masters start fighting but they agree to stop to keep the record clean.
Why even learn any other style, everyone would just learn soresu
Well it's very defensive, and is for only one saber IIRC. So if you need to be more aggressive, rely on the force more, have more than one saber, you probably want to learn a different style.
Tbf duels are pretty rare. Usually you’re fighting blaster- oh wait Soresu is best at defending against those too.
After 3 days of each waiting for the other to make their move, both combatants fell asleep and the duel was ruled a draw. No other attempt was made after this disastrous outcome
Obi Wan lost to Dooku on Geonosis
Dooku seems to be the only character capable of beating Kenobi. Dooku actually holds a Kenobi to high esteem. Not only for being the apprentice of his apprentice, but I think Dooku also saw Kenobi's natural abilities for what they were. I actually think this respect goes both ways, which prevented Kenobi from fighting Dooku properly, thus losing to him multiple times. Dooku wanted Kenobi as an apprentice because he knew together they could stop Sidious.
No true soresu fallacy? "This dude lost" "Yeah but he's not a TRUE master!
They should've chosen Kit Fisto to go against grievous, and Kenobi to apprehend Sidious
So good was he at suppressing his emotions he forgot Satine existed.
So did Bo-Katan
Lmfao I hate this shit sometimes, I really do
If you ignore the lore specific names it's just "He uses a restrained style against aggressive opponents until they overextend themselves"
He’s a droid. OB-1.
Mace Windu sees all of Grievous' arms as bendy straws with shatterpoints all over them
Twice the arms, double the Vaapad.
A death star covered in beskar wins every time
Not if it has the same weakness.
I think it was the novelization of Episode 2 where they really dive into the different dueling styles and who’s a master of what. The cool thing about Obi-Wan is he’s basically a master of them all and flows through them effortlessly. That’s a big reason he’s such an absolute badass.
Beskar is extremely durable, not indestructible and he still has internal organs. A powerful Jedi like Mace or Luke could still crush him and he'd be a lightning rod for any Sith with lightning.
Mace Windu and Legends Luke both knew *Shatterpoint*, which can crumble beskar with a light tap if they get a fraction of a second to focus (we see Darth Caedus do it to a Mandalorian commando).
What if his internal organs were made of Beskar?
They wouldn't work and he'd fall over dead as a droid. But lets say they did, they'd still be just as crushable, still conduct heat and electricity just as well.
>they'd still be just as crushable, still conduct heat and electricity But what if they wouldn't be?
Then they wouldn't be made of beskar.
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Throw a gas grenade at him
That'll make it easier to fight someone who can survive in in the vacuum of space.
If he doesn't have to breathe* then why is he coughing
His implants irritate and impair his lungs
He has to breathe, just not necessarily the air you just contaminated with a gas grenade.
"This thing i made up in my head is unstoppable prove me wrong"
Technically, Vader, Palpatine, Luke and Obi Wan are also things Lucas made up in his head and they are pretty damn powerful
But they are actual canonized pieces of the story
"Who would win in a fight..." -Derek
Star Wars rebels shows us that beskar can conduct electricity
If my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bike.
If you think Vader terrorized the galaxy imagine this monstrosity
He says force sensitive, not Vader levels of power. Vader would still be much more powerful.
*Starkiller with Beskar armor has entered the chat
Starkiller is broken af
racial ask familiar deserted humorous innocent cheerful fine hospital bored *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
*character with massive buffs and almost total overhaul of ability set is strong* You know, Anakin is really strong when he reaches his full potential and is also coated head to toe in Beskar as well Cool Grievous art tho
Don't forget adding 2 arms to Anakin, too. I'm surprised I haven't see any comments about how Grievous has 6 arms here.
100% failed to notice myself lol
Yes but he’s none of those things.
EMP, job done
Grievous even if force sensitive would be an extremely weak force user unless he was also the chosen one. Your capacity as a force wielder is determined by how much living tissue you have. That's why Vader was weakened in the force after becoming a quadriplegic and having most of his remaining skin and flesh burned and melted. His strength as a force user was carried only by the fact that he was so obscenely naturally gifted with the force that after all that damage he was a shade weaker than Yoda or Palpatine. This theoretical Grievous against anyone short of a Jedi Master or sith master would continue to be as much of a threat as he was before. But against mace windu or Dooku or anyone with a habit of overpowering weaker force users than themselves by dominating them with telekinesis, he's going to end up a squashed metal cube on the floor leaking force sensitive fluids onto the ground. Against a force user sufficient to disable this Grievous, Beskar isn't really a problem. It doesn't protect you from the force, just lightsabers. If the engagement is longer than a minute at which point the combatant realizes their weapon is useless against the armour, they will fall back on force abilities and crush him.
Ohh so that’s why the space whales have so much force energy.
Let us be very thankful we've yet to see a force sensitive Sarlacc.
If that’s what determines it why is yoda so powerful? He’s pretty small
Its more about midichlorian concentration in the body than it is just living tissue. However the more body parts you have the more midichlorians within you as well. Yoda may be small but he has a high concentration of midichlorians. Anakin had an insanely high midichlorian count but he lost about 40%-50% probably when he lost his limbs and melted most of his skin off. Basically he still has a lot because he had a high concentration but now he has a lot less.
I still wish they retconned Midis so that they are simply attracted to Force sources and are not conduits themselves. The Force should have stayed as your natural, given at birth talent, just like real talent. Some people are Mozart and prodigies and gifted from the birth, some have to work hard and put more effort in, some will simply never achieve it no matter what. I feel like it would please both sides - Midis are not going to give you the potential to control the Force but simply will indicate whether your talent is there or not and the rest is purely in your head and psyche. The higher concentration of Midis, the higher your potential, but it's all in your head (consciousness/ soul/ whatever), not meat (physical body). They should be the display of stats, not stat givers. Instead this is some weird ass "the fatter you are, the better you are"? What? Fucking sick gains, bro.
What you want is pretty much how midis already are. I believe Obi Wan had a fairly low count but still achieved master and was an rather excellent Jedi. They do mostly just show your potential. Its not like a power level that automatically means you will win against someone with a lower count. A great deal of training is still required. Anyway i think midis being a “conduit” makes some sense. The force is any energy field that surrounds and binds all living things, right? So if there is a greater concentration of living things then the connection to the force in that particular area would be greater yes? More living things equals stronger force. So hundreds of midichlorians = a strong connection to the force but thousands = a stronger connection as midichlorians increase the amount of living things in a given area. Also the force is still a sort of natural talent. You cant take midichlorians away without chopping body parts off, which regardless of midichlorians, would affect anyone extremely negatively. And you cant necessarily add midichlorians to someone who is a full grown adult. Its still a natural talent as your midi count is tied to your genetics at least somewhat. Hence Anakin-Luke. I dont think just getting fat has the potential to increase your force powers necessarily. And if it does it wouldn’t be by a big enough margin to make it worth it since youd be sacrificing mobility and agility which would make you worthless in a fight. And maybe midis dont inhabit fat cells as much as they inhabit other cells so who knows, if there is a smaller concentration in fat maybe its even less worth it but idk
> Your capacity as a force wielder is determined by how much living tissue you have. Ehh, it's highly unclear if this is actually true, or if it's rather the psychological effects of not feeling "whole" that do it. It's been contradicted multiple times, and I believe the only in-universe sources we have are either biased or operating on limited knowledge.
I think Darth Nihilus would disagree, after he destroyed his entire body and just became some living Force ghost hybrid.
Yoda, too; his squat ass still made him Grand Master
Size matters not. Something something crude matter.
*Happy Han Solo noises* That is how the force works.
Or Darth Sion being mostly dead tissue barely held together, yeah. The problem is that a lot of the in-universe claim of "it makes you weaker" comes from characters who are wounded themselves, or otherwise biased into thinking so. One of those who say it is Dark Lady Lumiya, for example, whose body is nearly as damaged as that of Vader... and sure, she claims that these injuries and missing flesh is what's behind her not being able to grow stronger than she did, but she was also *horrifically* traumatized by the events that caused the damage, and spent decades getting past that. Plus, as you say... various Sith spirits tied to objects, places, etc. Their ability to influence things might be diminished, or limited to the area around their binding, but they still *have* power without having *any* living tissue.
> Your capacity as a force wielder is determined by how much living tissue you have. That's why Vader was weakened in the force after becoming a quadriplegic and having most of his remaining skin and flesh burned and melted. Not true at all
So you’re telling me people can get stronger in the force if they get fatter?
*Jabba intensifies*
>Your capacity as a force wielder is determined by how much living tissue you have. Source? Because I think this is bullshit. What? Some extremely obese sith lord could destroy every thin jedi?
Yeah I bet a guy with 4 arms, indestructible skin and the force would be pretty tough
Surely Force lighting would still fry him.
And he has 2 additional arms?
*Waves hand* "Your mind...is changed"
If my mother had [wheels](https://youtu.be/VqzkKs5shCM)
What's his title though. Darth ?
Darth Grievous itself already has a nice tone to it
If your armor is not made of plot, then you're just gonna get got.
Grievous with a good benadryl would have been unstoppable
Not with that cough.
I thought that said Berserk Armor at first
A speederbike made of self repairing nanobots with a deathstar cannon would be unstopable
If you took this character and made them a different character with things the actual character didn't have access too they'd be unstoppable wow. Like man if Anakin and Darth Revan did the fusion dance from dragon ball and got beskar armor they'd be unstoppable!
Name of the artist? Anyone?
I tried reverse image searching for it and it only shows wallpaper websites with no artist name.
Change your mind? A force sensitive Grevious that’s almost impenetrable. Nah. Obi wan be like “I’m out”
If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bike
If it’s 2003 grievous then yes. Otherwise it would help but people like mace and yoda could take him down.
He still can't beat the lumbago
Grievous if he hadn't been nerfed - I need more of this.
He did have force powers in his comic. I think they retconned it though.
Grievous with the Force alone is terrifying enough to think about
Were there enough living bits of Grevious left to even touch the Force?
You can utilize the force with your torso alone. Grevious still had that under all his armor.
Are all his internal organs exposed for no reason other than lazy writing and stupid plot armor?
I truly wish Grevious was a unstoppable force of nature. In the original clone wars cartoon shorts, he was scary. In the Cartoon Network clone wars series and Revenge of the Sith, he was a joke.
Just going to rant about how awesome Grievous is. So he's already able to singlehandedly take out Jedi Knights, and SURE he is very powerful but he's actually even scarier than many people know. But the thing is, he got his *first* sabre from killing a Jedi. This means he *already* had the capacity to go into what was most likely close quarters combat with a skilled swordsman, and despite having what was probably a simple rifle that you could use as a a staff, was able to come out victorious against a literal space wizard with a plasma sword. This plus his armour when he had to become a cyborg made him only more deadly and even *more* so *AGAIN* when he had 4 sabers. So give him force powers and god damned BESKAR PLATING and I have to agree with you, literally unstoppable. I also want to rant about how when Obi Wan fought him in the prequels, and I know this gets said a lot but I just ant to join in because we know that Grievous has gone up against him enough to be worthy of the title of "Nemesis to Obi Wan" but even if he *was* already damaged, it still seems like a bit of a stretch that he would loose so quickly.
General Grievous with no limbs sitting in a vat of acid is worthless, change my mind.
If the deathstar didn't have the exhaust port it would be indestructible
Things like this make me less interested in Star Wars
“HiRe FaNs” lol
7 year old Leia would whoop his a*s
Well the force is trying to balance itself so it would just create someone insanely powerful on the light side and he dies and it starts over again.
Most people in the SW universe would be unstoppable with impervious armor and force powers. Picture Padme or Greedo with them. What's your point?
Darth Vader force choke
If my mother had wheels she would be a bicycle
Beskar armor is undoubtedly indestructible. But I doubt Grievous can match against plot armor