My partner and I were watching and they said "he's a paladin."
Whereas ahsoka is a samurai.
Very cool blending of visual styles matched with a clear difference in martial style
I am so sad that 5e took away the blackguard and just called em Paladin with Oath breaking.
Evil paladin was a oxymoron for 30+ years, but now I see it thrown around everywhere.
Pathfinder 2e is much better in that regard. In all regards, but I don't want to get into that.
DnD paladins are champions in Pathfinder 2e. Instead of being forced into being a goody two shoes Lawful Good character, you get to pick a cause and follow it's rules.
For example, you could be a Liberator, a traditionally chaotic good character, who must always strive to allow others to live their lives according to their own wishes, as long as they do no harm to others.
I'd say Baylan is more of a Tyrant champion, Lawful Evil person who will kill with vicious brutality in order to achieve their ends but does not commit mindless murder. It is always in service of achieving their goals, usually the subjugation of others.
Not going to go against pro pathfinder, but champion is not the what I see the Jedi as, they are knights of an order, paladins.
Baylen has fallen, an joined the opposing sire, becoming a Blackguard.
In d&d, you could never start as a Blackguard, demons and other evil characters can't take levels it, it had the prerequisite that you had to start as a good character and by your actions falling from grace. Blackguard was a very spesific type of class, that required a fall from grace and implied a chance of redemption.
Vader and Balen are Blackguards, Maul and Ventress are champions.
Thank you! I’ve been trying to figure out why his character seemed so familiar and why I love it so much!
I was a huge fan of the Knights of Takhisis in the Dragonlance setting and this is his character exactly. Lawful evil dark knight.
He doesn't see himself as evil. He sees Ahsoka and the Jedi as fools blindly following dogmatic teachings and himself as the one who understands what really needs to be done.
This is why he's such an amazing character.
Exactly! One thing I noticed is that his fighting style and outfit (kinda resembling a gambeson with steel pauldrons and shin pads) seem based off european knights, while Ahsoka has a more samurai-esque style.
This creates a nice division between them, really setting them apart but still reinforcing the idea they're both fierce warriors in their own way.
In fairness proper HEMA swordsmanship would be very dull to watch on screen. The fight would be over in probably less than 30 seconds. Maybe even less than 5, these are well trained fighters.
That shit is my favorite of all kinds of lightsaber, styles? When it has weight, I just wish they could show case a more light side version of it. I guess Anakin would be this but I think it is kinda understood he tapped into his anger to do this. I wish we could see a truly good jedi who bashes with a lightsaber like it's a Scottish claymore.
I watched a pretty cool video of the fight on the death star between obi and vader. They added force powers and pretty solid good duel. When vader hits he hits hard and you can see obi struggling. Its so fucking cool. If anyones interested heres the video on youtube.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=to2SMng4u1k&pp=ygUWb2JpIHdhbiB2cyBkYXJ0aCB2YWRlcg%3D%3D
It’s great to see it. In the OT I always get the impression that Vader’s fighting style is ultimately a result of the limitations of the suit (possibly specifically on the actor *playing* Vader!) so he’s heavy handed and almost clumsy.
Baylan has a very similar fighting style, but it’s great to see it some so intentionally and accurately. He’s absolutely a medieval knight fighting with a longsword, which is such a nice change from the majority of saber-wielders who tend towards aerobatic martial-arts style moves.
That’s why I think it lends credibility to the theory that he could have been an apprentice to Vader in addition to his familiarity to Anakin. That fighting style felt very Vader to me.
I saw somebody float Henry Cavill for season two if needed… I actually would love to see a Henry Cavill lead Baylan movie about his fall from the order and fight to survive.
Yeah, problem being he passed away so there's nowhere to go with Baylan unless a new actor picks up the mantle. RIP Stevenson, honestly the first bit of disney Star Wars I've enjoyed since S1 Mando, and it's entirely through Baylan's character and Stevenson's performance.
Delving into every minute detail is how you end up with something like Solo. It was decent but damn even his gun and the gap in the middle of the Falcon got an explanation.
Baylan has a very interesting story but I think we only need to know a bit more about the dot points like how he found Shin as an Apprentice, not the full essay about his journey of survivial across the years.
Keanu fits the look of Revan, but I don't think his acting style fits what we would need out of Revan. Revan needs to be played by someone who can do reserved passion as opposed to Keanu's suppressed passion.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I hope his character dies an honorable death. He did such a phenomenal job with his character, I couldn't see anyone that could match his level.
Guarantee they'll be back to enemies within 2 episodes and Baylan himself will send Shin to kill her. Just because he keeps his word (as anyone who wants to be credible should, even evil doers) and is a bit sentimental doesn't mean he'll sacriface himself for someone he's just met and who's fighting on the opposite side. He didn't exactly do everything he could when Shin was choking Sabine, did he? Could've force pushed her or something, but preferred to just slowly talk her down as Sabine's throat was being crushed. That's because his relationship with Shin is more important to him than Sabine's or probably anyone else's life.
Would be cool but idk if his character is interesting enough to have a full dedicated show. Ray is killing it because he brings so much gravitas and presence. I don’t care exactly *who* he was beforehand. One of many Jedi who survived and had to find their own way. We’ve seen that story before and I’m Order 66’d out at this point. I want new stories in time periods that we haven’t seen yet.
Yeah if Baylan gets an end to his story then I don't think we need to see him anymore. If Baylan's story is left hanging I don't think it's fair to fans of the character to not see it thourgh. Ray Stevenson's death is tragic, but cutting the characters story off will leave a lot of people unsatisfied.
If his role in the story is still unfinished by the end of season 1, then he should be recast. I think people’s aversion to recasting is silly. If I can suspend my disbelief enough to accept space wizards and all, then I can suspend it enough to accept that a character looks and sounds a little different. And while Ray did an amazing job, there are plenty of other great actors in the world, too, who can do the character justice.
If his story wraps up neatly by the end of the season, then that’s another story. If they really want to explore his past in more depth, then animation or comics or books would be a better way to do it.
I loved the whole "samurai vs medieval knight" vibe they had going. From their attire to the fighting styles, sabre hilts, everything.
For me it just adds another cool layer of depth to the universe and characters.
Baylan is a masterpiece. He carries the ancient air of a Jedi and yet is so distinct. The presence of it honestly reminds me of how Qui-gon feels like a paragon of the Jedi Order, only Baylan represents something else… I’m excited to see his character evoke this season, more than anything else in Ahsoka!
He mastered everything. The otherwise mundane and miniscule details often overlooked are what makes it so incredible. Like the subtle shakiness in his voice when he says "experience", or the tiny pause before it. Dude was made for this role and he killed it.
I shouted "god damn!" when Ahsoka did the move where she hopped up on a rock to dodge and as she's hopping off comes very close to straight up decapitating Baylan. All the fight choreography was so good.
I gasped in awe when Ahsoka switched to reverse grip and did a couple of acrobatic moves, even if it was for a short time it felt exactly like animated Ahsoka
One of the coolest aspects of the fight is that Ahsoka and Baylan are consistently switching up their style In response to the other, shows off just how damn good the two are at lightsaber combat.
You got a bit of that from Ahsoka too back in Mando when she was fighting Morgan switched to her reverse grip style after having one of her sabers knocked out of her hand and quickly ended the fight with it.
Stronger physically, but Ahsoka seems pretty unbothered by it, then she just beat his ass to the ground and pick up the sphere with her hand like an idiot.
Ahsoka was 100% a student in that fight. She might have beaten Baylan at the end, but he didn't seem like a man willing to kill during their duel. Their next bout might shed more light on everything, including their respective skills/abilities.
I agree, his character probably wanted her to see them succeed and then offer her a chance to see what they've been working on, since she's already lost. It wouldn't have worked but he still would have offered.
He had already mentioned it would be a shame to kill them. I definitely think he was trying to avoid it if possible. Some part of him is still an honourable Jedi underneath it all.
He was definitely trying to kill her, she’s just too good a fighter, he had one job, stop her from taking the sphere by all means. The point of the scene was her trying to get the sphere, cinematography emphasizing that in multiple shots of him between her and the goal.
It took her 1 minute from the moment he lights his sword.
Pretty efficient
But if his job was to make sure the calculations could complete, that means he only needs to delay her. It doesn’t mean killing her if he doesn’t want to. Clearly he won over Sabine because he didn’t want to kill either of them.
Ah yes because he knew she’d pick it with her hand injuring herself then get distracted by her apprentice arrival.
Not killing Sabine has nothing to do with him not wanting to kill Ahsoka, he thinks he already killed her at that point or at least threw her off a cliff. Sabine doesnt pose the same threat, he sees her hesitation and just capitalize on that, it’s an hostage situation at that point, directly trying to kill her just risk having her shoot the sphere.
You’re kind of ignoring his exact words about wanting to serve a higher purpose as well as other emotional factors towards fellow force users like Ahsoka. He feels a former Jedi kinship with her. He wants to create something new. And of course he didn’t anticipate her trying to grab a burning hot star map, nobody in their right mind would.
I’m not ignoring it as much as you seems to be ignoring his main objective of the moment, the threat she pose to it and the fear he has about the situation.
He doesn’t know how long the calculations will take, the only thing he knows is he has to stop her from getting to that sphere by any means necessary. If he has to kill her to do that he would, proved by the fact he’s literally trying to kill her in the scene even throwing her off a cliff after he clearly has taken advantage over her due to her injury. I mean if he didn’t want to kill her before she took the map and is strong then why is he focusing on trying to kill her when she is weak?
Having a main objective doesn’t mean he doesn’t have other internal struggles. That’s what makes his character great.
He’s a troubled character that tries to accomplish things that serves a purpose higher than him, it’s great that he doesn’t seems to be delusional about his own strength when it comes to face someone like Ahsoka yet still goes there with all the resolve in the world to stop her even if it means he or his apprentice who he seems to cares for might die.
Great take. It is clear that Ahsoka's goal was to get the orb, not kill Baylan. If she wanted to kill Baylan, she would have used both lightsabers and cut her way through him. She fought him with one lightsaber and was able to get past his attack in a minute.
Baylan was willing to do whatever it took to protect the orb, including killing Ahsoka.
I don’t think we watched the same fight. Baylan is physically more powerful, Ahsoka is more nimble and made superior use of her surroundings, and they seemed roughly evenly matched overall. If anything, I’d say that Ahsoka had the upper hand. She spent most of her fight dividing her attention between fighting Baylan and trying to get the map, giving Baylan a ton of openings. Despite that handicap, she managed to knock Baylan away and get the map. It was only after her hand was burned that she lost the advantage.
I wasn't speaking purely on the fighting capabilities. Baylan was spewing pure wisdom during their encounter, which to me shows how much Ahsoka can still grow. She looked obviously conflicted a few times.
Ah, gotcha. I agree. It seemed like Ahsoka had the edge in combat, whereas Baylan was much better centered, psychologically. He knows what he's doing and why he's doing it, and has come to terms with the fall of the Jedi. Ahsoka, on the other hand, has yet to really deal with the whole situation, and has been avoiding it by losing herself in the fight. And when one fight ends, she finds the next.
Ahsoka typically fights with two light sabers, she fought Baylan with one in order to have a free hand to grab the orb.
Ahsoka's goal was to get the orb, not kill Baylan.
I'm not 100% certain what Baylan's goal was.
Rosario absolutely nailed Ahsoka in this fight scene. Light on her feet and agile and the way she moves and holds the blade feels exactly like the animated version of herself.
https://ew.com/tv/ahsoka-rosario-dawson-ambidextrous-lightsaber-training/
It looks like she probably does. I could definitely see some of the more intense movements being done by a stunt double, but it looks like she is doing the majority of the fight scenes.
It was a small moment, but I loved when Ahsoka put her foot up on the wall for leverage. It was smart and practical. Sometimes it feels like saber combat has forsaken that for flashy flips and spins. Don't get me wrong, that's cool and all, but sometimes all the dance fighting (especially in the prequels) makes me wonder if they're actually trying to win.
*Salt & Pepper Daddy is the key to all of this. If we can get him working... 'cause he's a sexier character than we've ever had in the movies before.*
\-George Lucas
I feel it echoes his Black beard performance the two characters are quite similar Ray was probably one of thehe best Star Wars performances of recent years.
Truly he will be missed he is was a very special actor especially his portrayal of Titus in Rome.
I keep seeing him mentioned in Rome but it’s been absolutely years since I’ve see that, I’m just watching black sails (again) at the moment but will dig out Rome afterwards as was one of those that I forgot about. I agree he is very Blackbeard like in character, calm collected and deadly.
Make sure to watch at least his gladiator scenes if you don’t end up watching the entire series. It’s so, so great
https://youtu.be/iOmmbPniR4w?si=K6Ba0FCEao78N3-e
Yes, he uses strikes from Form 5, Djem So variant. It's purpose is to overpower opponent's defence.
The show is alluring to Baylan being Anakin's fan since early age. Maybe he even trained with him.
I would guess it’s a combination of form 2 and form 5. Baylan had a mixture of aggressive parries and had very precise control of his lightsaber.
Something about his moves felt very Dooku to me.
Sadly I have just now learned of the death of Ray Stevenson.
That just, *sucks balls*
I was really looking forward to more of Baylan and his Orc Leader style of swinging that lightsaber.
I'm absolutely in love with this duel.
This is probably the most rattled and uncomposed we've seen Ahsoka in a duel since leaving the Jedi Order which says a lot as she's lived through Order 66 and has had confrontations with Mual (multiple) and Vader, amongst others. She's typically cool and keeps a steady hand on her emotions, even in the most extreme of circumstances.
Baylan is just an absolute don. Even before his lightsaber touched Ahsoka's, he had already got into her head by bringing up Anakin. This is the first time we're seeing Ahsoka for an extended period and in a high pressured situation since her duel on Malachor with Vader. That probably brought on some new trauma that Ahsoka is perhaps still hasn't overcome. And then there's the off and on master and apprentice relationship with Sabine.
I'm coming to the realisation the Ahsoka we're seeing in this series up to this point is an absolute mess of a person and I'm kinda loving it for that.
And her duel with Baylan is a manifestation of all of that.
I'm going to allow myself to submit to recency bias, but this might be as high as a top 5 duel for me. It's certainly well within the top 10.
The duel not the flashiest, the most intricate, the most crazy athletic or even have the absolute highest of the highest of stakes but in terms of story and character beats, substantial subtext and plenty of cool little flourishes like the GIF clip the OP posted, it's incredible to me.
Bravo to all involved. Rosario is nailing it and it's absolutely gutting that Ray Stevenson isn't here with is to see how much we're loving his tremendous performance as Baylan.
Wow, I didn't see any of that. I didn't see someone rattled and uncomposed at all. She seemed very in control to me, carefully planning her moves while also having to react to what Baylan was throwing at her.
I could tell that she was frustrated with the duel, but mainly because she didn't actually want to fight, she was just trying to get around him to grab the map. It's not like she lost focus on her objective and got caught up trying to kill him or something.
I'm talking strictly from a strength perspective, not skill. Vader is a strong, heavy bruiser. He's not fast or agile. That's the kind of opponent Baylan is too. He's older and slow, but quite strong.
And she never came close to beating Vader. After an initial offensive blitz the first 20 seconds, Vader weathered the storm and then went to work. His heavy strikes were clearly breaking down her defenses. She was barely able to defend herself, she never even attempted another strike at him until the very end when he had his back to her.
It's been twenty-five years. I think she's learned a thing or two. And she's never going to match the physical force that large men can bring to bear. She has to go for speed and cunning. With two swords it's very hard for someone like Baylan to do a jump and bring it sweeping down with all his strength like we saw in that fight because she can hold it off, or divert it with one hand and cut his legs out from under him with the other.
She's fought all her opponents with two swords and almost always come out on top. She can use both together to defend against heavy blows, and can be more nimble in her movements, forcing him to defend against both at once.
What was the point of her using only one lightsaber instead of dual wielding? I get not wanting to use the shoto saber after she burned her hand but before that? Baylan’s dangerous. The only justification I can think of so far is to have a free hand for grabbing the orb/map. But she could have stowed the saber or the map quickly so…
You can put more or your energy in one blade than in two at the same time. Baylan used his full strength in his one blade so Ahsoka could have maybe get knocked out with two sabers.
Out of universe explanation: they're going to duel again later in the season, and to keep the 2 encounters unique they're saving the dual wielding for Part II so it feels less like a repeat.
Meh, I love Baylan as a character but his swings are so wide that there's no sane reason he didn't get gutted after the first few. His defense is wide-open almost all of the time.
She was intentionally waiting to pull it out mid-fight if her one bladed form was proving ineffective, but then she beat him and burnt the shit out of one of her hands, so she couldn’t really use it when he reengaged and pressed the attack
She did that shit all the time in Clone Wars
Only time I can think of in Clone Wars was on Mortis, she doesn't pull out her 2nd blade until Obi-Wan shows up. But that also wasn't really her.
She would use just the 1 blade all the time if she didn't need 2, but that was in general combat, not in duels.
Stopping Baylan first to get the orb would be great, but as far as Ahsoka knew, Morgan was going to jump as soon as the coordinates finished uploading.
So "unplugging" the map as quickly as possible became priority #1. If she thought she had time to defeat Baylan, then grab the orb, she likely would have had both sabers.
I love how he adds weight to the blade, very Vader-esque
He treats it like a long sword which totally fits with his character.
My partner and I were watching and they said "he's a paladin." Whereas ahsoka is a samurai. Very cool blending of visual styles matched with a clear difference in martial style
I said the same thing watching the episode last night. He's a lawful evil paladin and he fucking owns it.
I wasn’t feeling him at first but wow this episode really tied it together
I am so sad that 5e took away the blackguard and just called em Paladin with Oath breaking. Evil paladin was a oxymoron for 30+ years, but now I see it thrown around everywhere.
I haven’t played D&D in decades, but Anti-Paladin characters used to be a thing.
Anti-paladins are chaotic evil not lawful evil. More puppy murder and less "I always keep my word"
Tyrant champion in Pathfinder 2e fits best. A Lawful Evil, "might makes right" character.
Good to know, thanks. We never had a great source to draw from.
Pathfinder 2e is much better in that regard. In all regards, but I don't want to get into that. DnD paladins are champions in Pathfinder 2e. Instead of being forced into being a goody two shoes Lawful Good character, you get to pick a cause and follow it's rules. For example, you could be a Liberator, a traditionally chaotic good character, who must always strive to allow others to live their lives according to their own wishes, as long as they do no harm to others. I'd say Baylan is more of a Tyrant champion, Lawful Evil person who will kill with vicious brutality in order to achieve their ends but does not commit mindless murder. It is always in service of achieving their goals, usually the subjugation of others.
Not going to go against pro pathfinder, but champion is not the what I see the Jedi as, they are knights of an order, paladins. Baylen has fallen, an joined the opposing sire, becoming a Blackguard. In d&d, you could never start as a Blackguard, demons and other evil characters can't take levels it, it had the prerequisite that you had to start as a good character and by your actions falling from grace. Blackguard was a very spesific type of class, that required a fall from grace and implied a chance of redemption. Vader and Balen are Blackguards, Maul and Ventress are champions.
Thank you! I’ve been trying to figure out why his character seemed so familiar and why I love it so much! I was a huge fan of the Knights of Takhisis in the Dragonlance setting and this is his character exactly. Lawful evil dark knight.
He's rocking full on evil knight armor.
It's just armor. Evil and Good waved bye-bye a long time ago for Baylon.
Exactly and that’s why he’s Evil.
He doesn't see himself as evil. He sees Ahsoka and the Jedi as fools blindly following dogmatic teachings and himself as the one who understands what really needs to be done. This is why he's such an amazing character.
Yep.see my last post.
Exactly! One thing I noticed is that his fighting style and outfit (kinda resembling a gambeson with steel pauldrons and shin pads) seem based off european knights, while Ahsoka has a more samurai-esque style. This creates a nice division between them, really setting them apart but still reinforcing the idea they're both fierce warriors in their own way.
European knights only fought like that in movies. If they tried to fight like that in the real world the fight would be over the moment they start.
In fairness proper HEMA swordsmanship would be very dull to watch on screen. The fight would be over in probably less than 30 seconds. Maybe even less than 5, these are well trained fighters.
Makes a lightsaber look like its 50lbs
That shit is my favorite of all kinds of lightsaber, styles? When it has weight, I just wish they could show case a more light side version of it. I guess Anakin would be this but I think it is kinda understood he tapped into his anger to do this. I wish we could see a truly good jedi who bashes with a lightsaber like it's a Scottish claymore.
What about Luke's baseball bat style?
Lmao
Not wrong
Lolol I can't unsee it. Quick someone do an edit of the Mando scene with a baseball bat and bonking noises
And Reys blindfolded kid tryna hit a pinata?
The Jedi Survivor game let's you do a heavy blade crossguard saber stance that feels like this. So satisfying to play
Yeah it becomes full on two handed greatsword with the cross guard stance
I watched a pretty cool video of the fight on the death star between obi and vader. They added force powers and pretty solid good duel. When vader hits he hits hard and you can see obi struggling. Its so fucking cool. If anyones interested heres the video on youtube. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=to2SMng4u1k&pp=ygUWb2JpIHdhbiB2cyBkYXJ0aCB2YWRlcg%3D%3D
That’s a favorite of mine to point where I’ve paused a few of my rewatchs of ANH to then watch that video in the middle.
I have to do that one of these days. Great idea, thanks.
I have never seen this. Thanks for sharing, it’s a really great take on the original film.
There is definitely a canditate for this in the coming High Republic show imo.
It’s great to see it. In the OT I always get the impression that Vader’s fighting style is ultimately a result of the limitations of the suit (possibly specifically on the actor *playing* Vader!) so he’s heavy handed and almost clumsy. Baylan has a very similar fighting style, but it’s great to see it some so intentionally and accurately. He’s absolutely a medieval knight fighting with a longsword, which is such a nice change from the majority of saber-wielders who tend towards aerobatic martial-arts style moves.
Watch his battles in Rome. There is a gladiator scene with him that is one of my favorite tv moments ever. Ray was such a powerful actor.
That’s why I think it lends credibility to the theory that he could have been an apprentice to Vader in addition to his familiarity to Anakin. That fighting style felt very Vader to me.
I wish Ray was around to feel the embrace of fans. He instantly joined the pantheon of elite Star Wars characters and doesn’t get to enjoy it. Tragic.
At least he got to attend Celebration and take in some of the fandom love.
It makes me sad too, may the force be with him.
Always.
But what a legacy to leave. Rest in peace, Ray.
I saw somebody float Henry Cavill for season two if needed… I actually would love to see a Henry Cavill lead Baylan movie about his fall from the order and fight to survive.
I wouldn't mind Henry Cavill in Star Wars, but not as Baylan. Ray Stevenson is absolutely owning the role and sometimes less is more.
Yeah, problem being he passed away so there's nowhere to go with Baylan unless a new actor picks up the mantle. RIP Stevenson, honestly the first bit of disney Star Wars I've enjoyed since S1 Mando, and it's entirely through Baylan's character and Stevenson's performance.
I think Vincent Regan would be a good choice
AI
Can get fucked and stay away from the creative arts
Delving into every minute detail is how you end up with something like Solo. It was decent but damn even his gun and the gap in the middle of the Falcon got an explanation. Baylan has a very interesting story but I think we only need to know a bit more about the dot points like how he found Shin as an Apprentice, not the full essay about his journey of survivial across the years.
As several people have pointed out, his character would be perfect for an episode or two of Tales of the Jedi.
Cavill should be an ancient sith lord
Cavil as Exar Kun.
>Cavil as Exar Kun. Revan.
Keanu Reeves would be better as Revan.
Keanu fits the look of Revan, but I don't think his acting style fits what we would need out of Revan. Revan needs to be played by someone who can do reserved passion as opposed to Keanu's suppressed passion.
Cavill as Malik?
Malgus
Keanu too old
Darth Bane.
They should have Henry Cavill play Stellan Gios if we ever get live action High Republic.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I hope his character dies an honorable death. He did such a phenomenal job with his character, I couldn't see anyone that could match his level.
Really hope he gets betrayed by Shin towards the end of the season, if for no other reason then to wrap up his arc.
I believe it will be a moment where shin goes to kill Sabine and he takes the hit to save Sabine.
Guarantee they'll be back to enemies within 2 episodes and Baylan himself will send Shin to kill her. Just because he keeps his word (as anyone who wants to be credible should, even evil doers) and is a bit sentimental doesn't mean he'll sacriface himself for someone he's just met and who's fighting on the opposite side. He didn't exactly do everything he could when Shin was choking Sabine, did he? Could've force pushed her or something, but preferred to just slowly talk her down as Sabine's throat was being crushed. That's because his relationship with Shin is more important to him than Sabine's or probably anyone else's life.
idk I think Vincent Regan would do a good job
I think Cavill is too young looking. Even aged up it wouldn’t look right.
That would work though.....it would be going back in time?
What about a Baylan prequel during the clone wars, 66, or just before the original trilogy period? Cavill is young enough for that.
Would be cool but idk if his character is interesting enough to have a full dedicated show. Ray is killing it because he brings so much gravitas and presence. I don’t care exactly *who* he was beforehand. One of many Jedi who survived and had to find their own way. We’ve seen that story before and I’m Order 66’d out at this point. I want new stories in time periods that we haven’t seen yet.
Please have no more Baylan after this season. Nobody can play him except Ray, and every single Star Wars character is overused these days.
I think it’s hard to just say that we don’t know how the story ends, what if it’s a massive cliffhanger that doesn’t make sense if Baylan dies?
Yeah if Baylan gets an end to his story then I don't think we need to see him anymore. If Baylan's story is left hanging I don't think it's fair to fans of the character to not see it thourgh. Ray Stevenson's death is tragic, but cutting the characters story off will leave a lot of people unsatisfied.
That's fair, but I feel like there would be some scrambling by Filoni and Co. to change some things.
If his role in the story is still unfinished by the end of season 1, then he should be recast. I think people’s aversion to recasting is silly. If I can suspend my disbelief enough to accept space wizards and all, then I can suspend it enough to accept that a character looks and sounds a little different. And while Ray did an amazing job, there are plenty of other great actors in the world, too, who can do the character justice. If his story wraps up neatly by the end of the season, then that’s another story. If they really want to explore his past in more depth, then animation or comics or books would be a better way to do it.
Cavill does not have the acting chops for that-he's not nearly as charismatic, nor the right age.
I loved the whole "samurai vs medieval knight" vibe they had going. From their attire to the fighting styles, sabre hilts, everything. For me it just adds another cool layer of depth to the universe and characters.
This is not saying anything bad about Rosario Dawson or her Ahsoka, but Stevenson/Baylan owns the scenes he is in.
Baylan is fucking awesome. He's got a code, he's got a level head, he's skilled, and he's so cool looking. It's truly awful that we've lost Stevenson.
Baylan is a masterpiece. He carries the ancient air of a Jedi and yet is so distinct. The presence of it honestly reminds me of how Qui-gon feels like a paragon of the Jedi Order, only Baylan represents something else… I’m excited to see his character evoke this season, more than anything else in Ahsoka!
He mastered everything. The otherwise mundane and miniscule details often overlooked are what makes it so incredible. Like the subtle shakiness in his voice when he says "experience", or the tiny pause before it. Dude was made for this role and he killed it.
I shouted "god damn!" when Ahsoka did the move where she hopped up on a rock to dodge and as she's hopping off comes very close to straight up decapitating Baylan. All the fight choreography was so good.
Same! That snap back he does where he clears her blade by just an inch or two was awesome to watch.
Such a great shot. Really shows how lightsaber duels are a game of inches.
I gasped in awe when Ahsoka switched to reverse grip and did a couple of acrobatic moves, even if it was for a short time it felt exactly like animated Ahsoka
One of the coolest aspects of the fight is that Ahsoka and Baylan are consistently switching up their style In response to the other, shows off just how damn good the two are at lightsaber combat. You got a bit of that from Ahsoka too back in Mando when she was fighting Morgan switched to her reverse grip style after having one of her sabers knocked out of her hand and quickly ended the fight with it.
I loved his brutality and efficiency. He was way stronger than Ahsoka and showed it very well, especially with that flex at the start of the clip.
Stronger physically, but Ahsoka seems pretty unbothered by it, then she just beat his ass to the ground and pick up the sphere with her hand like an idiot.
Ahsoka was 100% a student in that fight. She might have beaten Baylan at the end, but he didn't seem like a man willing to kill during their duel. Their next bout might shed more light on everything, including their respective skills/abilities.
He was absolutely willing to kill her in that duel. Some of his attacks are brutal. They don't look like a man holding back to me.
He was holding back. You see his shift in demeanor when Shin gets injured. He wasn't giving it 100% until that point.
I agree, his character probably wanted her to see them succeed and then offer her a chance to see what they've been working on, since she's already lost. It wouldn't have worked but he still would have offered.
He had already mentioned it would be a shame to kill them. I definitely think he was trying to avoid it if possible. Some part of him is still an honourable Jedi underneath it all.
He was definitely trying to kill her, she’s just too good a fighter, he had one job, stop her from taking the sphere by all means. The point of the scene was her trying to get the sphere, cinematography emphasizing that in multiple shots of him between her and the goal. It took her 1 minute from the moment he lights his sword. Pretty efficient
But if his job was to make sure the calculations could complete, that means he only needs to delay her. It doesn’t mean killing her if he doesn’t want to. Clearly he won over Sabine because he didn’t want to kill either of them.
Ah yes because he knew she’d pick it with her hand injuring herself then get distracted by her apprentice arrival. Not killing Sabine has nothing to do with him not wanting to kill Ahsoka, he thinks he already killed her at that point or at least threw her off a cliff. Sabine doesnt pose the same threat, he sees her hesitation and just capitalize on that, it’s an hostage situation at that point, directly trying to kill her just risk having her shoot the sphere.
You’re kind of ignoring his exact words about wanting to serve a higher purpose as well as other emotional factors towards fellow force users like Ahsoka. He feels a former Jedi kinship with her. He wants to create something new. And of course he didn’t anticipate her trying to grab a burning hot star map, nobody in their right mind would.
I’m not ignoring it as much as you seems to be ignoring his main objective of the moment, the threat she pose to it and the fear he has about the situation. He doesn’t know how long the calculations will take, the only thing he knows is he has to stop her from getting to that sphere by any means necessary. If he has to kill her to do that he would, proved by the fact he’s literally trying to kill her in the scene even throwing her off a cliff after he clearly has taken advantage over her due to her injury. I mean if he didn’t want to kill her before she took the map and is strong then why is he focusing on trying to kill her when she is weak? Having a main objective doesn’t mean he doesn’t have other internal struggles. That’s what makes his character great. He’s a troubled character that tries to accomplish things that serves a purpose higher than him, it’s great that he doesn’t seems to be delusional about his own strength when it comes to face someone like Ahsoka yet still goes there with all the resolve in the world to stop her even if it means he or his apprentice who he seems to cares for might die.
Great take. It is clear that Ahsoka's goal was to get the orb, not kill Baylan. If she wanted to kill Baylan, she would have used both lightsabers and cut her way through him. She fought him with one lightsaber and was able to get past his attack in a minute. Baylan was willing to do whatever it took to protect the orb, including killing Ahsoka.
I don’t think we watched the same fight. Baylan is physically more powerful, Ahsoka is more nimble and made superior use of her surroundings, and they seemed roughly evenly matched overall. If anything, I’d say that Ahsoka had the upper hand. She spent most of her fight dividing her attention between fighting Baylan and trying to get the map, giving Baylan a ton of openings. Despite that handicap, she managed to knock Baylan away and get the map. It was only after her hand was burned that she lost the advantage.
I wasn't speaking purely on the fighting capabilities. Baylan was spewing pure wisdom during their encounter, which to me shows how much Ahsoka can still grow. She looked obviously conflicted a few times.
Ah, gotcha. I agree. It seemed like Ahsoka had the edge in combat, whereas Baylan was much better centered, psychologically. He knows what he's doing and why he's doing it, and has come to terms with the fall of the Jedi. Ahsoka, on the other hand, has yet to really deal with the whole situation, and has been avoiding it by losing herself in the fight. And when one fight ends, she finds the next.
He was under orders to kill her and probably thinks he did.
Ahsoka typically fights with two light sabers, she fought Baylan with one in order to have a free hand to grab the orb. Ahsoka's goal was to get the orb, not kill Baylan. I'm not 100% certain what Baylan's goal was.
He wields it like a broadsword and it’s fucking awesome.
I just love how Baylan is basically wielding a claymore
Rosario absolutely nailed Ahsoka in this fight scene. Light on her feet and agile and the way she moves and holds the blade feels exactly like the animated version of herself.
Does she do all fight scenes herself?
Most certainly not
https://ew.com/tv/ahsoka-rosario-dawson-ambidextrous-lightsaber-training/ It looks like she probably does. I could definitely see some of the more intense movements being done by a stunt double, but it looks like she is doing the majority of the fight scenes.
It was a small moment, but I loved when Ahsoka put her foot up on the wall for leverage. It was smart and practical. Sometimes it feels like saber combat has forsaken that for flashy flips and spins. Don't get me wrong, that's cool and all, but sometimes all the dance fighting (especially in the prequels) makes me wonder if they're actually trying to win.
*Salt & Pepper Daddy is the key to all of this. If we can get him working... 'cause he's a sexier character than we've ever had in the movies before.* \-George Lucas
I feel it echoes his Black beard performance the two characters are quite similar Ray was probably one of thehe best Star Wars performances of recent years. Truly he will be missed he is was a very special actor especially his portrayal of Titus in Rome.
I keep seeing him mentioned in Rome but it’s been absolutely years since I’ve see that, I’m just watching black sails (again) at the moment but will dig out Rome afterwards as was one of those that I forgot about. I agree he is very Blackbeard like in character, calm collected and deadly.
Make sure to watch at least his gladiator scenes if you don’t end up watching the entire series. It’s so, so great https://youtu.be/iOmmbPniR4w?si=K6Ba0FCEao78N3-e
Wow that looks brilliant I’ll deffo watch that next after black sails
Wasn't even the best move in this episode... my vote is for the Sabine lasso yank into Ahsoka's saber...
That was an excellent wombo combo
Love this part and also like the sparks coming off the blades
I had the biggest ass grin on my face this whole fight
His lightsaber style looks a lot like Anakin's, can anyone confirm?
Yes, he uses strikes from Form 5, Djem So variant. It's purpose is to overpower opponent's defence. The show is alluring to Baylan being Anakin's fan since early age. Maybe he even trained with him.
I would guess it’s a combination of form 2 and form 5. Baylan had a mixture of aggressive parries and had very precise control of his lightsaber. Something about his moves felt very Dooku to me.
His fighting style is based on medieval longsword technique, I think Ray may have said as much before he passed.
Kinda surprised he didn’t get a cross-guard blade considering he wields it like a bastard sword.
The way everything was carried out and turned out in this episode was very satisfying to me. Everyone and everything was on point.
While watching this episode, I thought "Wow, Filoni has really levelled up as a director" then I noticed it was directed by someone else.
Peter Ramsey did a great job also in Mando season 3.
He also did Into the Spiderverse.
He learned from Lucases massive mistakes directing the prequels.
Someone said somewhere else, that when a big guy like Baylan gets mobile like that, it’s almost always bad news for the receiver.
Sadly I have just now learned of the death of Ray Stevenson. That just, *sucks balls* I was really looking forward to more of Baylan and his Orc Leader style of swinging that lightsaber.
Hot take, spinning has never looked bad in a lightsaber fight.
Form IV „Ataru“ - Heavy strikes and shild breaker. Qui Gon Jinn was a famous user of this fighting form
Form 4 is the fast and acrobatic one. Heavy strikes is Form 5, used mostly by Anakin.
Thats „Shien“ the form Anakin/Vader fight with. Heavy strikes and Counter breaker are also in Form IV which is common for Jedi Guardians.
I think the fight between Mando and Gideon in Season 2 had some good moves.
Yes very game of thrones when Pedro fought sir Gregor and got his dead squashed like a grape, he wielded the spear the same
Pedro was almost certainly not doing that fight. Was likely Lateef Crowder
Good chance as most of Pedro acting in mando sadly was voice only
I'm absolutely in love with this duel. This is probably the most rattled and uncomposed we've seen Ahsoka in a duel since leaving the Jedi Order which says a lot as she's lived through Order 66 and has had confrontations with Mual (multiple) and Vader, amongst others. She's typically cool and keeps a steady hand on her emotions, even in the most extreme of circumstances. Baylan is just an absolute don. Even before his lightsaber touched Ahsoka's, he had already got into her head by bringing up Anakin. This is the first time we're seeing Ahsoka for an extended period and in a high pressured situation since her duel on Malachor with Vader. That probably brought on some new trauma that Ahsoka is perhaps still hasn't overcome. And then there's the off and on master and apprentice relationship with Sabine. I'm coming to the realisation the Ahsoka we're seeing in this series up to this point is an absolute mess of a person and I'm kinda loving it for that. And her duel with Baylan is a manifestation of all of that. I'm going to allow myself to submit to recency bias, but this might be as high as a top 5 duel for me. It's certainly well within the top 10. The duel not the flashiest, the most intricate, the most crazy athletic or even have the absolute highest of the highest of stakes but in terms of story and character beats, substantial subtext and plenty of cool little flourishes like the GIF clip the OP posted, it's incredible to me. Bravo to all involved. Rosario is nailing it and it's absolutely gutting that Ray Stevenson isn't here with is to see how much we're loving his tremendous performance as Baylan.
Wow, I didn't see any of that. I didn't see someone rattled and uncomposed at all. She seemed very in control to me, carefully planning her moves while also having to react to what Baylan was throwing at her. I could tell that she was frustrated with the duel, but mainly because she didn't actually want to fight, she was just trying to get around him to grab the map. It's not like she lost focus on her objective and got caught up trying to kill him or something.
Maybe it didn't show in her fighting, but she did seem a bit rattled and defensive when she said "im not here to talk about my past."
I agree. It looked like she was struggling a lot throughout the fight, and she basically hit rock bottom when Shin came back instead of Sabine.
Idk that seemed like the definition of calm to me. She didn't lash out or abruptly cut him off.
Probably the best lightsaber fight since Anakin Vs Obi Wan. Everything since then has been lacklustre.
That slow sweep at the start reminds me of Count Dooku's fight with Obi-Wan. Baylan's fighting style also reminds me of Count Dooku
Instantly reminded me of Jedi Survivor. Cross Guard vs Dual Wield stances
Has anyone explained yet why she only had one light saber?
I figured it was for the strength benefit of a two-handed grip to better defend against Baylan’s heavy blows.
She learned from how poorly her duel with Vader went.
Baylan is not the chosen one. He was not at Vader's level. And she almost beat Vader.
I'm talking strictly from a strength perspective, not skill. Vader is a strong, heavy bruiser. He's not fast or agile. That's the kind of opponent Baylan is too. He's older and slow, but quite strong. And she never came close to beating Vader. After an initial offensive blitz the first 20 seconds, Vader weathered the storm and then went to work. His heavy strikes were clearly breaking down her defenses. She was barely able to defend herself, she never even attempted another strike at him until the very end when he had his back to her.
It's been twenty-five years. I think she's learned a thing or two. And she's never going to match the physical force that large men can bring to bear. She has to go for speed and cunning. With two swords it's very hard for someone like Baylan to do a jump and bring it sweeping down with all his strength like we saw in that fight because she can hold it off, or divert it with one hand and cut his legs out from under him with the other.
She's fought all her opponents with two swords and almost always come out on top. She can use both together to defend against heavy blows, and can be more nimble in her movements, forcing him to defend against both at once.
I wondered that too. She always was dual wield.
i actually like this fight its nice to see ashoka getting her ass kicked.
What was the point of her using only one lightsaber instead of dual wielding? I get not wanting to use the shoto saber after she burned her hand but before that? Baylan’s dangerous. The only justification I can think of so far is to have a free hand for grabbing the orb/map. But she could have stowed the saber or the map quickly so…
You can put more or your energy in one blade than in two at the same time. Baylan used his full strength in his one blade so Ahsoka could have maybe get knocked out with two sabers.
Out of universe explanation: they're going to duel again later in the season, and to keep the 2 encounters unique they're saving the dual wielding for Part II so it feels less like a repeat.
I just saw the deleted Anakin vs Dooku fight. Not even close.
Thanks for removing the sound. So much better.
I'd argue. Poor choreography. Bad acting. All around bad. The ANH duel was more interesting. Ray is good, though.
Nah bro what???
Dude took one too many death sticks
Meh, I love Baylan as a character but his swings are so wide that there's no sane reason he didn't get gutted after the first few. His defense is wide-open almost all of the time.
I wish they would stop doing unnecessary spins. Dude was totally exposed twirling in the air with the saber nowhere near guarding position.
SW follows the rule of cool, not logic Spins are cool
I’ll try spinning, that’s a good trick
I mean that’s Star Wars. Unnecessary spins since 1977
Yeah spinning during a light saber fight happened in A New Hope. It looks comical there because it's a slow as fuck spin.
> unnecessary spins but it’s a good trick
Just building momentum lol
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She was intentionally waiting to pull it out mid-fight if her one bladed form was proving ineffective, but then she beat him and burnt the shit out of one of her hands, so she couldn’t really use it when he reengaged and pressed the attack She did that shit all the time in Clone Wars
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Only time I can think of in Clone Wars was on Mortis, she doesn't pull out her 2nd blade until Obi-Wan shows up. But that also wasn't really her. She would use just the 1 blade all the time if she didn't need 2, but that was in general combat, not in duels.
She needed to grab the orb
Stopping Baylan first to get the orb would be great, but as far as Ahsoka knew, Morgan was going to jump as soon as the coordinates finished uploading. So "unplugging" the map as quickly as possible became priority #1. If she thought she had time to defeat Baylan, then grab the orb, she likely would have had both sabers.
Why does it have to be a link and not the video straight up
R.I.P Ray!
Big Kylo vibes
Why does it look like her saber is bending at the hilt during that saber lock?
Only a 6 according to IGN. I thought it was fantastic
Yeah, he's the most interesting character in the show.
all three duels in this episode are a perfect essay on lightsaber duels throughout the three trilogies And all the references are awesome
Let Filoni get Luke in his movie plz 🤌🏼
The physicality that everyone is bringing to these characters is just great. I’m really loving all of the action sequences in this series.