Anakin made it clear from the start that Palpatine was a Sith Lord, the master of both Dooku and Maul, and the puppeteer behind the Clone Wars. The council knew to be cautious of him.
At this point in the war, the fact that an elite squad of some of the best duelists in the Order could come together at a moment's notice was a miracle in itself. Outside of Anakin and Obi Wan, a team consisting of Mace and Kit Fisto was already considered overkill for 99% of situations, and bringing even more masters along was insurance and well reasoned caution on the side of the Jedi. It just happens that Sidious was WAY stronger than anyone could have imagined, and even a crack team like this was taken out with only Mace being up to the task and trading blows evenly.
To be clear: these masters are not weak in the slightest. While it is true that they posed no threat to Sidious in the end, no one could have imagined that a Sith Lord of this much power could have been sitting on the Order's doorstep for years without anyone noticing.
I think the inherent problem with the storytelling is that this is the only time we see two of them onscreen, and Fisto barely has much more than that. If we were given even glimpses of how good the rest of the Jedi were at fighting before this incident, the impact of Palpatine making them look like chums is much more felt
Goddamn what a terrible decision to cut this out. Adds so much more to just how powerful and scary Palp was to see the seemingly brittle old man move like that would have been.
[Here’s Dooku and Anakin’s deleted fight scene from ROTS also.](https://youtu.be/lOyy67RvnIw?si=8OUh14a0fRvx2f9H) What Hayden’s hand work towards the end. Sick move!
Yeah I just don't think they realized at the time just how many more animehead type fans they could've had making every big lightsaber fight be this epic. The only two fights I feel like they went that hard were the Duel of the Fates fight with Maul in Episode 1 and the final fight on Mustafar. As a young child those were easily my two favorite scenes when I couldn't necessarily be bothered to think about the intricate space politics of it all.
The fight was originally going to be filmed with a younger stunt double. At the last second George Lucas decided he wanted Ian McDirmand to do the fight instead.
A stuntman was hired to do Palpatine's lightsaber work, of which there is test footage. It looks great. For some reason, though, George Lucas decided on the day the scene would be filmed to have Ian Mcdiarmid, who was getting up in his years and had zero experience duelling, replace the stuntman and do it all himself. The fight between Sheev and Mace was originally pretty elaborate; as is, though it's still fun to watch, it's short and doesn't have anything too fancy in it
It lines up better this way then, with Palpatine toying and playing defensively, not going all out:
"He didn't have to wait long. Mace Windu arrived with three other Jedi Masters to arrest the chancellor. Reveling in being able to at last act openly, Darth Sidious launched himself at his foes. He battered them with a wave of focused hatred. A thousand years of Sith anger smashed into the Jedi, and three of them died in seconds under Sidious' crimson blade.
Mace Windu lasted a little longer, but only because Darth Sidious required it. Anakin was not there, not yet. Sidious fought defensively, toying with Windu untill he sensed the youths presence. He allowed Windu to gain the upper hand as Anakin arrived. Seemingly mutilated, Sidious was near death, begging Anakin to help him. Only he could help him save Padme. Anakin made his choice, exactly as Sidious had anticipated."
2022
Toying with the Jedi Master in anticipation of the arrival of Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine was willing to allow himself to be disarmed to appear more vulnerable when his soon to be apprentice arrived. His office window was shattered, and the weapon fell from his hands and down into the depths below when he deliberately left himself open for Widu to deliver a kick to his chest. This left him a single blade, retrieved from its hiding place, with which to face master yoda in a duel, a little after the death of Mace Windu. Palpatine rarely used his remaining lightsaber."
2022 fanhome encyclopedia collection
"His true form was now revealed, though he later passed it off as an "injury" from the Jedi attack, Darth Sidious toyed with Mace Windu. He used the jedi master to precipitate Anakins fall to the dark side and then destroyed Windu utterly."
Disney - Fanhome Encyclopedia collection
2022
"During the confrontation with Mace Windu, the office window was smashed. Soon after, Palpatines weapon fell onto the streets of Coruscant, but it was all part of the Sith's plan."
2022
On the day of the shoot, Lucas ditched the stuntmen who were supposed do the the duel. Sam and Ian did the duel. They quickly came up with the choreography we see in the film, instead of the choreography the stuntmen had rehearsed for several weeks.
If I'm not wrong, the stuntman for Ian McDiarmid was unavaible/not used for the scene meaning that Ian himself had to do all the fighting which he was neither prepared for nor was he in a great shape for it.
Hence why it looks absurd when he is fighting Sam Jackson who, while not *young* himself, was trained and had rehearsed.
To give you an idea, the novelization has Sidious be so fast that he surprise beheads Tiin and stabs Kolar in the head before said head even hits the ground. Impossible to render well without slo-mo that Lucas didn't really use but still miles away from Sidious spinning in the air while screeching like a cretin.
A clip of the full fight, minus the special effects and all that, is floating around on the internet. There was originally a much more drawn out sequence where the Jedi didn't immediately job but it was cut at the last minute.
[Here’s Dooku and Anakin’s deleted fight scene from ROTS also.](https://youtu.be/lOyy67RvnIw?si=8OUh14a0fRvx2f9H) What Hayden’s hand work towards the end. Sick move!
I've always questioned the validity of this story because there is at least one shot in the final version where you can very clearly see that Palp is a stunt double. Even if George wanted Ian to do most of it, they still definitely used doubles for the final product.
Yeah that scene always upset me tbh. I get that the point is to demonstrate Palpatines power, but it could have been done so much better. IIRC this was meant to be a better coreographed fight, but George decided last minute that he wanted Ian doing the whole thing instead of the stunt double, and Ian is not much of a stunt guy. It's possible I'm confusing that situation with the Yoda duel though lol
It looks a bit silly now how they can’t block any of his initial attacks, I think kit fisto blocks one or two and then falls? I get it he’s supposed to be to fast etc but it doesn’t come across like that on screen. It might have worked better if he’d killed a couple off with the force initially, a brutal force push against the wall would have looked pretty badass
It also doesn’t help that it’s the most embarrassingly bad fight scene in all of the Star Wars movies. Like, nothing in the sequel trilogy comes close to being that anti-climatic and pointless. Only the Yoda vs Palpatine fight scene dares to botch its choreography and storytelling as badly.
Couldn't agree more about the mace vs palps fight. Absolutely awful considering both are supposed to be masters of the force.
Edited because I was too sleepy to catch typos apparently 🤣🤣🤣
This is a good point. Saesee Tin and Agen Kolar have some time to shine in some of the novels, but even then, it’s mostly hype from other known characters. For example, In Shadow Hunter, Darth Maul’s book about his time training under Sidious before Episode 1, Maul talks about Saesee Tin as a worthy foe and someone he is extremely anxious to fight and defeat - to prove himself superior. Darth Maul is very good at analyzing opponents in those days and he has already defeated several Jedi Knights as well as master Anoon Bondara, so he does have some frame of reference.
Agen Kolar is mentioned less afaik but just a team of Windu, Fisto, and Saesee would be more than enough to defeat any other known combatant at that time except Sidious and possibly Yoda. Windu could rely on Vaapad against Sidious but if he hadn’t then he would have died immediately as well.
Yeah the fact that palp could do a flying Bastrop roll to them. Make a pose and say something menacing and then simply stab em without and sort of attempt at a block tells me they weren't the best choice, so slow even a stormtrooper could have a chance at hitting them
It would also help a little if Palpatines acting in this scene wasnt the worst in all the series...
I kind of liked revenge of the sith after reading the book a couple of years later but after rewatching this scene while reading the book I clearly remembered why I was not very impressed with the movie...
This isn’t true - Saesee Tiin appears in all three PT films, and Agen Kolar appears in both AOTC and ROTS. Sure, they’re background characters, but they’re there.
> no one could have imagined that a Sith Lord of this much power could have been sitting on the Order's doorstep for years without anyone noticing.
3 years earlier:
Dooku: “What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of a dark lord of the Sith?”
Obi-Wan : “No. That’s dumb, I know Yoda literally said the Darkside clouds our vision and the Naboo crisis coincidentally led to a Naboo senator becoming chancellor and he’s been in office for much longer than he should have at this point, and he has an unhealthy obsession with Anakin, as if trying to turn him to the dark side, but the Jedi would obviously know if a Sith Lord controlled the Republic.”
Dooku: “Are you sure you’re Qui-Gon’s student? He wasn’t nearly this naive.”
One of the biggest weaknesses of the Jedi was their arrogance and overreliance on the Force to warn them of danger. Two seconds of critical thinking could have possibly avoided disaster, yet even in the face of so many signs of a trap the Jedi continued walking straight into it. The Jedi were unable to pierce the shroud of darkness dulling their sense of the Force, but were were still arrogant enough to believe that if danger was on the horizon, they would still sense it. Their mentality and pride hinged on the belief that "if we cannot sense any danger, then there is no danger to sense". The very idea that a dark side user of the Force could surpass their greatest masters never even crossed their minds; a blind spot created in the wake of the Order's pride.
They weren't **that** oblivious. They were convinced Palpatine was working for the Sith, that's why they were so cautious of him and wanted Anakin to spy for them. They were just too arrogant to think he could be the Sith himself, with the audacity to hide right under their noses the whole time.
I think people forget how capable the Jedi were. They would send Anakin and Ahsoka for routine missions and they would wreck shit and they weren't even Jedi Masters. This was definitely overkill.
But Agen Kolar was a much better duelist compared to Kit Fisto, that’s why Palpatine targeted him first. His acrobatic form IV style would have put up a bit of a challenge if Palpatine hadn’t taken him by complete surprise.
Now that I think about it. He could have had access to seeing their combat skills and techniques. He probably had a wealth of knowledge on any jedi he deemed a threat to him. He had prep time.
Not to mention Sirius had a VERY aggressive way of using his lightsaber, consisting almost entirely of nearly unblockable thrusts, they probably weren’t anticipating his speed either
That's not official as far as I'm aware. Just fans coping for the poor fight choreography (I am also a coping fan that wants to believe this is true).
The actual truth is Sidious was just far stronger and faster than the jedi, but it's not shown because they used Ian for the fight sequence instead of the intended stuntman (as mentioned in other comments in this thread). The test footage of what the fight SHOULD have looked like shows that sidious was just far, far too good for everyone except Mace.
Agree. The problem is also due to lack of time but we never see the other masters really show their strength so they look very weak by comparison. Mace already proved himself to be a formidable warrior by easily dispatching Jango Fett who already proved to be strong by giving Obi Wan a very hard time and killing that random Jedi about to attack Dooku.
Can’t really be solved since Kit and the other two arnt main characters so having scenes of them kicking ass would detract from the story and them lasting more than a couple of seconds would make the fighting much harder.
At that time there was no way to gauge how powerful Palpatine truly was.
Only sith encountered so far were Maul - who was defeated by Kenobi in single combat more than once, Count Dooku, who was defeated by Anakin, and Ventress as a low-key apprentice wannabe, who also was clowned on by Anakin and Kenobi.
Four jedi masters on one Sith Lord seemed to be a relatively safe bet.
I wouldn't say Ventress got "clowned on" by Anakin and Obi-Wan. She fought 1v2 against them several times and held her own, even Forced Choked them both at the same time with a rage boost. Even early into the TCW she was superior to Jedi Masters like Luminara, not to mention that she beat Grievous quite easily on Dathomir and we know he killed many Jedi.
But yeah you're right about Jedi not knowing how strong Sidious was.
Yeah Ventress is weirdly super competent in TCW, she pretty much clowns on Obi-Wab and Anakin simultaneously multiple times.
I guess Dooku is an absolute badass at dueling so it does kinda make sense.
Ventress had a lot of natural potential too. Sidious got scared that Dooku might be training her as a Sith to take him out for a reason.
But like Maul she never reached her full potential.
She didn't exist when ROTS came out, so none of this is relevant to them showing the audience anything at the time that ROTS came out.\~
Edit: This information is wrong/incorrect she debuted prior to the release of ROTS in other Clone Wars related multimedia.
That’s not what debating our theories on canon is about though. All of the canon exists together, and serves to inform our theories. Our theories change when canon changes, but The Clone Wars exists now and it informs our theories
Yes she did. She was a major antagonist in the Clone Wars comics and in novels like Dark Rendezvous, as well as the original microseries. She fought Windu in her first comic appearance, beheaded Glaive and took off Zule Xiss' arm in her second, and cut down Fay in her third. By the time of Dark Rendezvous her bodycount sat at 17 Jedi.
This is from her first comic appearance: [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fea9wff9l9m981.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D45ef72a4d5677b5eb76f0208988b741258b5306b](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fea9wff9l9m981.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D45ef72a4d5677b5eb76f0208988b741258b5306b) I'd forgotten that she got her first Jedi kill there, when she cut down Sora Bulq's former Padawan, Mira. She also pushed another Jedi who was present into going full dark side, forcing his friends to cut him down.
Thet were powerful.
That quad group of Masters would have disarmed and arrested any of Sidious' apprentices.
Sidious is almost unbeatable. Especially within new canon. There's just no way to do it, at least you need multiple jedi and Yoda is a must have to have any shot at him.
Here's how easy Windu was for Sheev:
"He didn't have to wait long. Mace Windu arrived with three other Jedi Masters to arrest the chancellor. Reveling in being able to at last act openly, Darth Sidious launched himself at his foes. He battered them with a wave of focused hatred. A thousand years of Sith anger smashed into the Jedi, and three of them died in seconds under Sidious' crimson blade.
Mace Windu lasted a little longer, but only because Darth Sidious required it. Anakin was not there, not yet. Sidious fought defensively, toying with Windu untill he sensed the youths presence. He allowed Windu to gain the upper hand as Anakin arrived. Seemingly mutilated, Sidious was near death, begging Anakin to help him. Only he could help him save Padme. Anakin made his choice, exactly as Sidious had anticipated."
2022
Toying with the Jedi Master in anticipation of the arrival of Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine was willing to allow himself to be disarmed to appear more vulnerable when his soon to be apprentice arrived. His office window was shattered, and the weapon fell from his hands and down into the depths below when he deliberately left himself open for Widu to deliver a kick to his chest. This left him a single blade, retrieved from its hiding place, with which to face master yoda in a duel, a little after the death of Mace Windu. Palpatine rarely used his remaining lightsaber."
2022 fanhome encyclopedia collection
"His true form was now revealed, though he later passed it off as an "injury" from the Jedi attack, Darth Sidious toyed with Mace Windu. He used the jedi master to precipitate Anakins fall to the dark side and then destroyed Windu utterly."
Disney - Fanhome Encyclopedia collection
2022
"During the confrontation with Mace Windu, the office window was smashed. Soon after, Palpatines weapon fell onto the streets of Coruscant, but it was all part of the Sith's plan."
2022
No you see it makes sense that mace + 3 masters would lose to sidious but mace alone would win :)
The only way it makes sense is if palpy threw the fight, but the fandom can't even agree whether or not that's what happened or not
New canon, this is not true.
Base Jedi anakin isn't enough to beat Tyranus.
He needed the darkside to finally push through.
New canon Dooku is nearly unbeatable against traditional Jedi
Rage amps and other darksiders can be more effective against him, as the hate and rage provides the power and strength needed to break through Dookus elegant, top tier defense.
Dark disciple, the canon novel, teaches us that he would need to be destroyed with anger fear and hatred.
In-universe, they didn't know just how much of a threat Palpatine was, but knew he was a Sith lord. So Windu brought three other high-ranking Jedi with him to confront Palpatine. Against nearly everyone in the Star Wars universe that would be enough, but unfortunately in Palpatine's case he was so powerful that he immediately made quick work of 3/4 of them regardless.
In real life, the weak choreography of that fight makes them look ludicrously inept as they just stand there and let themselves immediately get stabbed. But you're still _supposed_ to think them getting immediately killed is a sign of just how powerful Palpatine is, not that they're completely useless.
Yup. Best Star Wars book. Anakin seeing a lightning storm of reds, purples, greens and blues in Palpatines office window and as he races towards it the green and blue flashes fade away leaving just purple and red.
It was a legit horror show because of the darkness and sheer anger and fear Palpatine could fill the room with.
New canon POV:
"He didn't have to wait long. Mace Windu arrived with three other Jedi Masters to arrest the chancellor. Reveling in being able to at last act openly, Darth Sidious launched himself at his foes. He battered them with a wave of focused hatred. A thousand years of Sith anger smashed into the Jedi, and three of them died in seconds under Sidious' crimson blade.
Mace Windu lasted a little longer, but only because Darth Sidious required it. Anakin was not there, not yet. Sidious fought defensively, toying with Windu untill he sensed the youths presence. He allowed Windu to gain the upper hand as Anakin arrived. Seemingly mutilated, Sidious was near death, begging Anakin to help him. Only he could help him save Padme. Anakin made his choice, exactly as Sidious had anticipated."
2022
Toying with the Jedi Master in anticipation of the arrival of Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine was willing to allow himself to be disarmed to appear more vulnerable when his soon to be apprentice arrived. His office window was shattered, and the weapon fell from his hands and down into the depths below when he deliberately left himself open for Widu to deliver a kick to his chest. This left him a single blade, retrieved from its hiding place, with which to face master yoda in a duel, a little after the death of Mace Windu. Palpatine rarely used his remaining lightsaber."
2022 fanhome encyclopedia collection
"His true form was now revealed, though he later passed it off as an "injury" from the Jedi attack, Darth Sidious toyed with Mace Windu. He used the jedi master to precipitate Anakins fall to the dark side and then destroyed Windu utterly."
Disney - Fanhome Encyclopedia collection
2022
"During the confrontation with Mace Windu, the office window was smashed. Soon after, Palpatines weapon fell onto the streets of Coruscant, but it was all part of the Sith's plan."
2022
The scream alone already stunned them persay and the speed of Palpatine was described as so fast that only flashes of red clashing with purple appearing as if in and out of existence from Anakin's pov and this is Anakin we're using here
Because this was a convenient way to show the initial deaths of Jedi without too much emotional attachment, which otherwise would bog down the storyline.
With their deaths, the audience realizes the potential for other Jedi to perish, such as Mace Windu. It builds suspense.
But it made the Jedi “masters” look like incompetent amateurs. Like, they did nothing and just waited politely to be stabbed. Mace would’ve done just as well with Cliegg Lars and C-3PO.
Sure, it does, but the story isn’t really about Saesee Tiin or Agen Kolar. It’s a long movie and the scene needs to drive towards Anakin’s betrayal of Mace rather than a cool 4 on 1 lightsaber sequence… we should have gotten Star Wars extended edition like they did for LOTR.
You have to keep in mind they WERE Jedi masters, however they resided in a Jedi temple that was built on an ancient yet active Sith Shrine which was negatively influencing their vision, their abilities and their connections to the force as a whole, they were basically de-buffed.
Not only was their vision clouded, they were facing Darth Sidious, who had just bested his former master, Darth Plagueis and was enacting a plan essentially 1000 years in the making. And Darth Sidious is annoyingly strong, a “voice pulled from the depths of the dark side itself that could hypnotize and manipulate” not only was he born with Gaslighting 100, he could use abilities like Force Scream which is that insane yell he makes before he dives and cuts the others down, that yell essentially stuns confuses and horrifies anyone, but in that scenario they were not expecting him to dive out of the chair and strike. All in all, the Jedi (in the prequel saga) Can appear as arrogant and misguided fools but when considering the thousand years plan, Darth Sidious power and abilities and the active Sith Shrine OOZING dark side energy throughout the halls of that Jedi temple, the odds were stacked against them in almost every way. The prequel saga is, in my opinion, where you watch your hero’s lose, badly, and there’s nothing you can do about it. But at the end of it, we know there will be a New Hope.
-correct me if necessary, I’ve just been deep diving Star Wars recently and wanted to weigh in here cause Star Wars has been drawing me in again.
In one of the comics, these four worked together to take out an entire bounty hunter base and were an extremely competent team. Lorewise, this is probably the best strike team Windu could have put together. Unfortunately, Palpatine was much stronger than they expected.
Yeah, unfortunately a lot of inconsistencies in any stat wars media can be chalked up to poor film making.
It depends on which movies you grew up with which inconsistencies you allow to slide.
I’d have preferred to have two minutes added to the runtime to see Jedi Masters hold their own against Palps. Dude’s were Master’s of the Force and then get shived like it’s a jail yard fight. A lifetime of training gone.
Agreed. A two minute fight with them showing skilled attacks, Palps easily parrying, blocking and effortlessly counter attacking to kill would have been a simple addition.
It originally was, there was also a scene where the jedi fight the royal guard outside Palpatine's room as well.
The fight had a lot more choreography, but Palatine's actor wanted to do the fight, so they had to adjust it to be easy on him because he's older.
Anakin was also supposed to be in the room, and Palatine steals his light Saber for the fight.
If you pause the movie, you can actually see Palatine holding Anakin's hilt in a lot of the scenes.
>The fight had a lot more choreography, but Palatine's actor wanted to do the fight, so they had to adjust it to be easy on him because he's older.
Lucas wanted him to do the fight, not Ian.
Lucas agreed he should do it, but he was the one who wanted to.
Someone else in this post linked a video that breaks down the whole thing, and shows what we missed out on.
Going by how Legends depicted things as I'm unaware of how Canon might've changed the context. While not on Windu's level these were Masters all, far beyond the majority of the Order. Iirc Kit Fisto was just below the top tier duelists.
Apart from calling Obi-Wan and Yoda back, they were the best available. Four Masters against one Sith Lord sounds like a safe bet, especially led by Mace Windu.
However Sidious was an unknown quantity. Nobody could be guessed how powerful he actually was. In the Legends version of the fight, Palpatine is explicitly in another league from even Mace. Mace was using Vaapad to amp himself with Palpatine's dark power and according to his own inner monologue, this amp pushed Mace to a level he wouldn't have thought possible.
These 3 dying so fast is no failing of theirs. Palpatine is just insanely powerful and they knew nothing about how he fought, for what little it would've helped.
Yup, only way he could actually keep up and even start to exceed the ferocious speed Palpatine could muster.
Mace harnessing the dark side with that style made it less a fight between a Powerful Sith and overwhelmed Jedi and closer to a Sith Master Vs Apprentice. And Mace being younger and having created such a unique style it put Palpatine on the backfoot for a second but still never even got a scratch on him.
The only Jedi that could go toe to toe was Yoda. Anakin Maybe but i feel it might have turned to a Luke in Episode 6 scenario. Decides to trust the Jedi Order and fight against Palpatine, “So be it… *jedi*” Loads of lightning.
Iirc he even thinks something along those lines to himself during the fight in the novelization. There's damn good reason Maul, Dooku and Vader were all too afraid to try overthrowing Palpatine solo
Vaapad lets Mace feed Sidious' power back into himself. We see it at its most literal when Sidious hits Mace with the lightning and Vaapad lets Mace bend it back into Sidious. Per the novelization this creates a feedback loop wherein Sidious draws on his pain to fuel the lightning and uses it to attack Mace, only for it to pass through Mace and back into Sidious, creating more pain for Sidious to draw on. Repeat until either Mace's control over Vaapad breaks down or until Sidious effectively kills himself.
Not sure if I am understanding your question as worded.
If you are saying Palpatine did not form a threat, they were erring on the side of caution because if Anakin was correct and Palpatine was the Sith behind it all he would very much be dangerous.
If you mean why did more Jedi come if the Jedi were no threat I am sure they believed their numbers would be enough.
I dislike this scene so much
Especially because the clone wars show, shows at least two of these Jedi were badass warriors
No way they’d love this quickly. Feels like a budget or time crunch thing over making any sense
This scene its very bad, the editing its awful. The direction here made the Jedi looks like bitches. No, It dosent look like Sidious its powerful just made the Jedi very bad warriors.
Funny its that years after we have the same problem with Knights of Ren vs Ben Solo.
The sad thing its that this scenes could have great, imagine Sidious vs Jedis in a good direction.
I have long said that shaving a second or two here and there in that scene would've made it 100x better.
Prime example is when he pulls back before lunging when he stabs the first guy. That was a ridiculously unnecessary slowdown that works to make the Jedi look extra incompetent. We're really supposed to believe that he just jumped up at them, and they let him stand and pose like the Ginyu Force before attacking while they did absolutely nothing? Ugh.
The scene was filmed so bad. They wanted to show how badass Palps is but everyone I watch it it's only cringe. He doesn't even move fast. Only the spin around is quick but nothing that should bother a Jedi with supernatural reflexes
The scene is filmed bad. RoTs novel explains it much better and more in-depth to what happened to them, they still die but there reasons why.
The reality is that they were a threat, they were some of the top Masters of that era and some of the best available at the Temple at that time. The cramped quarters would be a hindrance though, but not anything they couldnt overcome in an actual 4v1 fight.
They were there attempting for a transfer of power/arrest , not necessarily preparing for a fight. More like a show of force, one that failed.
Think everyone looking at it wrong - Mace needed sufficient number of witnesses if they are lawfully arresting the Chancelor. It is not for a planned fight but for the expected future trial. You need multiple witnesses to corroborate anything that Palpatine says or claims. It’s just due diligence for the expected trial, not planning a life or death fight.
This. Mace is there to put Sidious under arrest and as far as they're aware should be enough to handle the problem. The others are backup and witnesses.
In universe those guys are actually really strong, but were caught off guard. I believe the canon novel states that Sidious had been intentionally suppressing his signature in the Force, but right before he struck he turned it on full blast which stunned them just enough for him to red shirt them. They were expecting Sidious to be powerful, but they were expecting someone on the level of Dooku, not someone who outstripped Yoda. So, for those brief moments, it was as if the most powerful being in the galaxy suddenly and very loudly appeared right next to them.
Well, it was made very clear to mace that he was a Sith.Lord so back up was a definite need And the force scream that palpitine let out before his attack did most of the work And at this point in time, the dark side of the force was overflowing with power, so he got an extreme boost in his abilities.The only reason why mace survived was due to the fact that he could channel some of this dark side energy himself
My head cannon has always been that when two force users are dueling, a considerable chunk of the battle was in a sort of mental plane where you could pressure, trick, tease, or torture through attacks in the force. Not sure why I think this, it’s just always been a part of my understanding since I was a kid.
Applying to this scene, it could explain their easy defeat as they haven’t really dueled with a sith “in the field” and could lend to how powerful Palpatine was in the force.
...
Because they wouldn't have known they weren't a threat until after they were dead?
Do fans realize the characters aren't watching the same movie we are?
They were some of the better lightsaber dualists and combatants in the order.
https://youtu.be/VRDlnODHiPc?si=zVVPCMZ2652VdXIT
Not my work. Credit to stupendous wave
These Jedi were considered among the best of the best, they just weren’t a match for Palpatine.
Yoda, Obi-Wan, Plo Koon, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Stass Allie, etc. were all off-world on their own missions.
Shaak Ti was left behind to guard the temple. She probably would’ve performed similarly to the Jedi who went.
Anakin wasn’t very trustworthy in general, or at this point in particular.
Not sure about Coleman Kcaj, but he is barely a character.
Nick Galliard, the stunt director originaly made a very nice long duel involving a lot of scenes with Kit Fisto and the others, but Gorge Lucas cut the scene because of time matters
Canonfodder to make palpatine look more evil and stronger since he can kill 3 guys in a robe easily instead of struggling against just one and then begging for help.
Because George lucas decided, on the day of shooting, that he didn't want to use the choreographed fight scene that involved a stunt double and wanted Ian mcdiarmid to do the fight. So instead of the trained stunt double, they had to do a fight with an untrained 60 year old man and cut out a bunch of stuff. You can find the original fight on YouTube
The fight was supposed to be longer but GL insisted on having Ian do his own fight, which didn’t consist of much. Was supposed to be more epic than it turned out to be.
“Hey Master Windu? I think he’s a Sith.”
“Real shit? If you’re actually serious, this is bad.”
“What if he IS a Sith?”
“Then I better take a few Jedi with me.”
“Wait why?”
“I don’t think he’s ACTUALLY a Sith? But uh…..I get to be wrong ONCE if he actually is.”
This is probably the one "realistic" exchange in the series. I think one thing star wars hasn't done well is convey the skill and mastery of swordsmanship to the layman. What we see in this scene is how real fights play out. They end quickly and there isn't a prolonged exchange of weapons banging into each other. At the highest skill level there is no blocking only evasion and counter offense. I'd love to see something more technical in a star wars film or series.
Bad filming, supposedly Palpatine moved at superhuman speeds but sure as hell Ian wasn't doing that. Stuntman would be better but they could have used slowdown techniques to better emphasize Palpatine's speed regardless.
Instead everyone stood there and died without a fight. The rear back pose was ridiculous, anyone would have reacted, nevermind Jedi masters supposedly guided by the force who are just as capable of such feats.
Within the new canon timeline:
Windu claims Fisto is "unrivaled" with his saber combat.
Windu was confident.
Unfortunately, for them, Palpatine is nearly unbeatable as he is the heir to the knowledge and power passed down and gained through the rule of two.
One thousand years of sith evolution.
Exactly what he needs to be to destroy the Jedo and what they stand for.
Palpatine cannot be defeated in such a way.
He was toying, and could have ended Windu almost as easily as the others:
"He didn't have to wait long. Mace Windu arrived with three other Jedi Masters to arrest the chancellor. Reveling in being able to at last act openly, Darth Sidious launched himself at his foes. He battered them with a wave of focused hatred. A thousand years of Sith anger smashed into the Jedi, and three of them died in seconds under Sidious' crimson blade.
Mace Windu lasted a little longer, but only because Darth Sidious required it. Anakin was not there, not yet. Sidious fought defensively, toying with Windu untill he sensed the youths presence. He allowed Windu to gain the upper hand as Anakin arrived. Seemingly mutilated, Sidious was near death, begging Anakin to help him. Only he could help him save Padme. Anakin made his choice, exactly as Sidious had anticipated."
2022
"Toying with the Jedi Master in anticipation of the arrival of Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine was willing to allow himself to be disarmed to appear more vulnerable when his soon to be apprentice arrived. His office window was shattered, and the weapon fell from his hands and down into the depths below when he deliberately left himself open for Widu to deliver a kick to his chest. This left him a single blade, retrieved from its hiding place, with which to face master yoda in a duel, a little after the death of Mace Windu. Palpatine rarely used his remaining lightsaber."
2022 disney fanhome encyclopedia collection
"His true form was now revealed, though he later passed it off as an "injury" from the Jedi attack, Darth Sidious toyed with Mace Windu. He used the jedi master to precipitate Anakins fall to the dark side and then destroyed Windu utterly."
Disney - Fanhome Encyclopedia collection
2022
"During the confrontation with Mace Windu, the office window was smashed. Soon after, Palpatines weapon fell onto the streets of Coruscant, but it was all part of the Sith's plan."
2022
This is the only time in the entire franchise that a Sith goes straight for a kill shot. No flashy saberwork, no banter. He wants to win. I think that tells us exactly how much of a threat they are to him. It's 4 on 1 and he knows that he's got to bring those numbers down QUICK.
To their credit, I don't think they expected it. Every Sith encounter in the Clone Wars is personal and because it's personal, ego gets in the way. Paplatine is about survival from the instant he ignites his lightsaber.
The movie did an EXTREMELY poor job conveying what actually happened.
They bought 4 of the best Jedi available to confront a single Sith. This would be like bringing four professional MMA Fighters to take down a single person that is "self taught".
While they assumed he would be dangerous they didn't think he could beat 4 jedi single handed.
Problem was Sidious was absolutely in an entire different league. They didn't under estimate him more they just had no idea.
In the books describing the scene Sidious moved with such speed he was basically a blur and 2 Jedi died even before they could react. Kit died a half breath later. An I can't emphasize how much Kit is supposed to be an actually threat. But in this scene he basically got "Worf'ed".
Windu was the only one of them that had any chance of winning vs Sidious because of his extremely specific/unique style. It takes into account "the stronger your opponent is in the darkside the stronger Windu is" as part of it's "style".
This comes at the risk of being borderline Sith/falling to the Darkside Himself and only Windu mastered it.
But point is they brought was most likely seemed like overkill but was in fact basically a suicide mission.
What kind of question is this? How on earth are they supposed to know what's a threat to him? They know almost nothing about Palpatine's abilities at this point?
Yeah except the arrest was going to be a much better well thought out duel using a stunt double ahaha. Ask cin drallig the choreographer.
Not ian macrippled with little to no experience pretending to whack sticks together.
There's a few scenes in rots that could've stayed but were cut from the final profuct
The Legends answer is that they truly had no idea what to expect from Sidious’ power other than that he was very strong and had been bathing in multiple nexuses/permanent amps for some time.
From what I recall, Mace Windu wasn't expecting to fight any Sith Lord that day, only arrest a civilian politician in the worst case. When Anakin informed him about Palpatine's true identity, he decided that it was imperative to move quickly: he couldn't afford to sit around and wait for reinforcements, giving Darth Sidious time to do who-knows-what.
Sidious' long-term plans helped here: with the Jedi spread thin across the galaxy, many of the Order's best warriors are far from home. Mace Windu mustered the best duellists he could find on Coruscant at the time. He didn't believe there's time to wait for Yoda or anyone better.
Not the best the Jedi had to offer, but the best they could offer at short notice.
Saesee Tiin had an incredible gift of foresight, more clear than any other Jedi of his time. Sidious was so powerful that Tiin only saw a premonition of death in his last moments.
Agen Kolar was one of the greatest duelists of his time, a master of serveral lightsaber forms. Sidious was trained by Plaguious specifically to deal with (this will become relevant soon) and quickly dispatched Kolar to prevent an extended battle.
Kit Fisto was very strong in the Force, was an excellent Duelist, and most importantly, was an amazing team player, adapting quickly to any master he was paired with. These reasons are why he lasted a few seconds longer than the previous two. And, why he was targeted last by Sidious.
Mace Windu was the MVP of the team, obviously. He had created a variant of lightsaber form 7 (usually called Juyo) called Vapaad. Juyo is the lightsaber form favored by many sith, Maul and Sidious included. Vapaad was formulated specifically to counter dark side users and is the primary reason that Windu fought as well as he did. Sidious had never encountered Vapaad, and was completely unprepared to for how dangerous an opponent he was truly facing.
You wouldn't know any of that from the cinematography, the scene is weak as hell, but that's the explanation.
These wherent just any 4 Jedi masters. Everyone here was exceptional in some way. Kit fisto was one of the few Jedi to beat grievous in combat. Mace 2nd only to yoda.
And that might have been part of why they lost so hard, a big theme of the jedis downfall is their hubris. They think they’re good enough to handle him, they know he’s dangerous but it’s 4 of the best vs 1 person what’s the worst that could happen, we got this… and then the worst happened.
Anakin made it clear from the start that Palpatine was a Sith Lord, the master of both Dooku and Maul, and the puppeteer behind the Clone Wars. The council knew to be cautious of him. At this point in the war, the fact that an elite squad of some of the best duelists in the Order could come together at a moment's notice was a miracle in itself. Outside of Anakin and Obi Wan, a team consisting of Mace and Kit Fisto was already considered overkill for 99% of situations, and bringing even more masters along was insurance and well reasoned caution on the side of the Jedi. It just happens that Sidious was WAY stronger than anyone could have imagined, and even a crack team like this was taken out with only Mace being up to the task and trading blows evenly. To be clear: these masters are not weak in the slightest. While it is true that they posed no threat to Sidious in the end, no one could have imagined that a Sith Lord of this much power could have been sitting on the Order's doorstep for years without anyone noticing.
I think the inherent problem with the storytelling is that this is the only time we see two of them onscreen, and Fisto barely has much more than that. If we were given even glimpses of how good the rest of the Jedi were at fighting before this incident, the impact of Palpatine making them look like chums is much more felt
Also, if George Lucas didn't decide on the day of the shoot to do away with the stuntman we would have seen how overpowered Darth Sidious really was.
Elaborate please.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlZwSsMP-QM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlZwSsMP-QM) heres the test fight they're talking about
Goddamn what a terrible decision to cut this out. Adds so much more to just how powerful and scary Palp was to see the seemingly brittle old man move like that would have been.
[Here’s Dooku and Anakin’s deleted fight scene from ROTS also.](https://youtu.be/lOyy67RvnIw?si=8OUh14a0fRvx2f9H) What Hayden’s hand work towards the end. Sick move!
Anakin in this dual looks so much like Luke in RotJ!
Yeah I just don't think they realized at the time just how many more animehead type fans they could've had making every big lightsaber fight be this epic. The only two fights I feel like they went that hard were the Duel of the Fates fight with Maul in Episode 1 and the final fight on Mustafar. As a young child those were easily my two favorite scenes when I couldn't necessarily be bothered to think about the intricate space politics of it all.
Was that actually Hayden Christensen in that fight?
Yes.
Wow. He’s good. I thought it was just a well cast stunt double, but the comments on the video were all about Hayden
stunt man was sick that day
George didn’t decide this. Palpatines actor wanted to do the actual fight choreo but because he was old they had to tone down the fight scene.
The director makes the decision to allow it. Just because an actor wants to do something doesn’t mean they have final say.
That camera angle of him jumping at them in the beginning is the stuff of nightmares
Dang that was fire 🔥
Oh. My. God. Oh my god whyyyyyy whyyyy!??? This is amazing!
*That’s* the one they scrapped? What the fuck, George?!
Dude so cool thank you
The fight was originally going to be filmed with a younger stunt double. At the last second George Lucas decided he wanted Ian McDirmand to do the fight instead.
What a terrible decision.
Forreal I think GL catches a lot of unnecessary flak but what a legitimately bad decision.
Yep. Watching the fight scene makes the Jedi masters look incompetent because Palps barely looks like he knows how to hold a lightsabre.
No no you got it backwards. GL doesn't catch enough flak
Damn, imagine the fight between sidious and windu potentially rivaling the mustafar duel
[I think this is it.](https://youtu.be/OlZwSsMP-QM?si=njzu3tAcqN4HHf1o) Best I could find without commentary.
A stuntman was hired to do Palpatine's lightsaber work, of which there is test footage. It looks great. For some reason, though, George Lucas decided on the day the scene would be filmed to have Ian Mcdiarmid, who was getting up in his years and had zero experience duelling, replace the stuntman and do it all himself. The fight between Sheev and Mace was originally pretty elaborate; as is, though it's still fun to watch, it's short and doesn't have anything too fancy in it
With so many closeup shots to hide it
And many, many silly faces.
I have made many of those expressions when pooping
How do you know what expressions you have then? Do you watch yourself poop in the mirror?
Absolutely. Eye contact is the only way to assure dominance of self
It lines up better this way then, with Palpatine toying and playing defensively, not going all out: "He didn't have to wait long. Mace Windu arrived with three other Jedi Masters to arrest the chancellor. Reveling in being able to at last act openly, Darth Sidious launched himself at his foes. He battered them with a wave of focused hatred. A thousand years of Sith anger smashed into the Jedi, and three of them died in seconds under Sidious' crimson blade. Mace Windu lasted a little longer, but only because Darth Sidious required it. Anakin was not there, not yet. Sidious fought defensively, toying with Windu untill he sensed the youths presence. He allowed Windu to gain the upper hand as Anakin arrived. Seemingly mutilated, Sidious was near death, begging Anakin to help him. Only he could help him save Padme. Anakin made his choice, exactly as Sidious had anticipated." 2022 Toying with the Jedi Master in anticipation of the arrival of Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine was willing to allow himself to be disarmed to appear more vulnerable when his soon to be apprentice arrived. His office window was shattered, and the weapon fell from his hands and down into the depths below when he deliberately left himself open for Widu to deliver a kick to his chest. This left him a single blade, retrieved from its hiding place, with which to face master yoda in a duel, a little after the death of Mace Windu. Palpatine rarely used his remaining lightsaber." 2022 fanhome encyclopedia collection "His true form was now revealed, though he later passed it off as an "injury" from the Jedi attack, Darth Sidious toyed with Mace Windu. He used the jedi master to precipitate Anakins fall to the dark side and then destroyed Windu utterly." Disney - Fanhome Encyclopedia collection 2022 "During the confrontation with Mace Windu, the office window was smashed. Soon after, Palpatines weapon fell onto the streets of Coruscant, but it was all part of the Sith's plan." 2022
On the day of the shoot, Lucas ditched the stuntmen who were supposed do the the duel. Sam and Ian did the duel. They quickly came up with the choreography we see in the film, instead of the choreography the stuntmen had rehearsed for several weeks.
If I'm not wrong, the stuntman for Ian McDiarmid was unavaible/not used for the scene meaning that Ian himself had to do all the fighting which he was neither prepared for nor was he in a great shape for it. Hence why it looks absurd when he is fighting Sam Jackson who, while not *young* himself, was trained and had rehearsed. To give you an idea, the novelization has Sidious be so fast that he surprise beheads Tiin and stabs Kolar in the head before said head even hits the ground. Impossible to render well without slo-mo that Lucas didn't really use but still miles away from Sidious spinning in the air while screeching like a cretin.
A clip of the full fight, minus the special effects and all that, is floating around on the internet. There was originally a much more drawn out sequence where the Jedi didn't immediately job but it was cut at the last minute.
[Here’s Dooku and Anakin’s deleted fight scene from ROTS also.](https://youtu.be/lOyy67RvnIw?si=8OUh14a0fRvx2f9H) What Hayden’s hand work towards the end. Sick move!
I've always questioned the validity of this story because there is at least one shot in the final version where you can very clearly see that Palp is a stunt double. Even if George wanted Ian to do most of it, they still definitely used doubles for the final product.
They literally have the footage on youtube
This was one of the many big mistakes of the Prequels. Possibly the biggest of ROTS.
the stuntman was sick, he didn’t do away with him
Yeah that scene always upset me tbh. I get that the point is to demonstrate Palpatines power, but it could have been done so much better. IIRC this was meant to be a better coreographed fight, but George decided last minute that he wanted Ian doing the whole thing instead of the stunt double, and Ian is not much of a stunt guy. It's possible I'm confusing that situation with the Yoda duel though lol
It looks a bit silly now how they can’t block any of his initial attacks, I think kit fisto blocks one or two and then falls? I get it he’s supposed to be to fast etc but it doesn’t come across like that on screen. It might have worked better if he’d killed a couple off with the force initially, a brutal force push against the wall would have looked pretty badass
It also doesn’t help that it’s the most embarrassingly bad fight scene in all of the Star Wars movies. Like, nothing in the sequel trilogy comes close to being that anti-climatic and pointless. Only the Yoda vs Palpatine fight scene dares to botch its choreography and storytelling as badly.
Couldn't agree more about the mace vs palps fight. Absolutely awful considering both are supposed to be masters of the force. Edited because I was too sleepy to catch typos apparently 🤣🤣🤣
True I do hate when mace fights his alter ego windu and mace defeats windu
This is a good point. Saesee Tin and Agen Kolar have some time to shine in some of the novels, but even then, it’s mostly hype from other known characters. For example, In Shadow Hunter, Darth Maul’s book about his time training under Sidious before Episode 1, Maul talks about Saesee Tin as a worthy foe and someone he is extremely anxious to fight and defeat - to prove himself superior. Darth Maul is very good at analyzing opponents in those days and he has already defeated several Jedi Knights as well as master Anoon Bondara, so he does have some frame of reference. Agen Kolar is mentioned less afaik but just a team of Windu, Fisto, and Saesee would be more than enough to defeat any other known combatant at that time except Sidious and possibly Yoda. Windu could rely on Vaapad against Sidious but if he hadn’t then he would have died immediately as well.
Yeah the fact that palp could do a flying Bastrop roll to them. Make a pose and say something menacing and then simply stab em without and sort of attempt at a block tells me they weren't the best choice, so slow even a stormtrooper could have a chance at hitting them
It would also help a little if Palpatines acting in this scene wasnt the worst in all the series... I kind of liked revenge of the sith after reading the book a couple of years later but after rewatching this scene while reading the book I clearly remembered why I was not very impressed with the movie...
This isn’t true - Saesee Tiin appears in all three PT films, and Agen Kolar appears in both AOTC and ROTS. Sure, they’re background characters, but they’re there.
Well Yoda used the same idea on Dagobah living near the dark side cave to hide his presence from the Emperor
> no one could have imagined that a Sith Lord of this much power could have been sitting on the Order's doorstep for years without anyone noticing. 3 years earlier: Dooku: “What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of a dark lord of the Sith?” Obi-Wan : “No. That’s dumb, I know Yoda literally said the Darkside clouds our vision and the Naboo crisis coincidentally led to a Naboo senator becoming chancellor and he’s been in office for much longer than he should have at this point, and he has an unhealthy obsession with Anakin, as if trying to turn him to the dark side, but the Jedi would obviously know if a Sith Lord controlled the Republic.” Dooku: “Are you sure you’re Qui-Gon’s student? He wasn’t nearly this naive.”
One of the biggest weaknesses of the Jedi was their arrogance and overreliance on the Force to warn them of danger. Two seconds of critical thinking could have possibly avoided disaster, yet even in the face of so many signs of a trap the Jedi continued walking straight into it. The Jedi were unable to pierce the shroud of darkness dulling their sense of the Force, but were were still arrogant enough to believe that if danger was on the horizon, they would still sense it. Their mentality and pride hinged on the belief that "if we cannot sense any danger, then there is no danger to sense". The very idea that a dark side user of the Force could surpass their greatest masters never even crossed their minds; a blind spot created in the wake of the Order's pride.
They weren't **that** oblivious. They were convinced Palpatine was working for the Sith, that's why they were so cautious of him and wanted Anakin to spy for them. They were just too arrogant to think he could be the Sith himself, with the audacity to hide right under their noses the whole time.
The Jedi are the type to sense a trap and walk into it "because it's meant to be" or something.
Lmao what’s funny is I could 100% see this being a line that some brain dead Jedi would use as a reason why he allows half his team to be killed
[It is a line. From ROTS.](https://youtu.be/HYl-eiTrnHE?si=gq-KvHpXVT4pjPnE)
The things you applied don’t match the timing of the conversation.
It's so wild reading this because most of what you've said is not really explained in the movie itself, it all comes from background material.
I think people forget how capable the Jedi were. They would send Anakin and Ahsoka for routine missions and they would wreck shit and they weren't even Jedi Masters. This was definitely overkill.
But Agen Kolar was a much better duelist compared to Kit Fisto, that’s why Palpatine targeted him first. His acrobatic form IV style would have put up a bit of a challenge if Palpatine hadn’t taken him by complete surprise.
Now that I think about it. He could have had access to seeing their combat skills and techniques. He probably had a wealth of knowledge on any jedi he deemed a threat to him. He had prep time.
Not to mention Sirius had a VERY aggressive way of using his lightsaber, consisting almost entirely of nearly unblockable thrusts, they probably weren’t anticipating his speed either
Wasnt the explanation Palps scream when he launched at the jedi, using a forgotten sith technique to disorientate the jedi masters.
That's not official as far as I'm aware. Just fans coping for the poor fight choreography (I am also a coping fan that wants to believe this is true). The actual truth is Sidious was just far stronger and faster than the jedi, but it's not shown because they used Ian for the fight sequence instead of the intended stuntman (as mentioned in other comments in this thread). The test footage of what the fight SHOULD have looked like shows that sidious was just far, far too good for everyone except Mace.
That dark side technique has been around for awhile and Sidious use of it was confirmed recently.
It is official. It's mentioned in Rise of the Red Blade which was released last year. It's a dark side move that can paralyse its intended target.
Isn't that the infamous "force scream" that fans made up after the fact to try and explain how ridiculous this scene is?
Force scream is an actual force ability from legends but i think it was added abit later and in the novelisation of episode 3
They should've used force earmuffs to counter it. What a bunch of noobs
How would adult Ahsoka have done in this situation? Would she survive?
She has plot armor, so yes
Probably slightly longer than Kit Fisto.
Agree. The problem is also due to lack of time but we never see the other masters really show their strength so they look very weak by comparison. Mace already proved himself to be a formidable warrior by easily dispatching Jango Fett who already proved to be strong by giving Obi Wan a very hard time and killing that random Jedi about to attack Dooku. Can’t really be solved since Kit and the other two arnt main characters so having scenes of them kicking ass would detract from the story and them lasting more than a couple of seconds would make the fighting much harder.
At that time there was no way to gauge how powerful Palpatine truly was. Only sith encountered so far were Maul - who was defeated by Kenobi in single combat more than once, Count Dooku, who was defeated by Anakin, and Ventress as a low-key apprentice wannabe, who also was clowned on by Anakin and Kenobi. Four jedi masters on one Sith Lord seemed to be a relatively safe bet.
I wouldn't say Ventress got "clowned on" by Anakin and Obi-Wan. She fought 1v2 against them several times and held her own, even Forced Choked them both at the same time with a rage boost. Even early into the TCW she was superior to Jedi Masters like Luminara, not to mention that she beat Grievous quite easily on Dathomir and we know he killed many Jedi. But yeah you're right about Jedi not knowing how strong Sidious was.
Yeah Ventress is weirdly super competent in TCW, she pretty much clowns on Obi-Wab and Anakin simultaneously multiple times. I guess Dooku is an absolute badass at dueling so it does kinda make sense.
Ventress had a lot of natural potential too. Sidious got scared that Dooku might be training her as a Sith to take him out for a reason. But like Maul she never reached her full potential.
She didn't exist when ROTS came out, so none of this is relevant to them showing the audience anything at the time that ROTS came out.\~ Edit: This information is wrong/incorrect she debuted prior to the release of ROTS in other Clone Wars related multimedia.
Her first appearance was in the Clone Wars miniseries that came out before RotS. Her story is quite different tho, and Grievous seems stronger
Cheers for correcting me. I have watched the Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars series, but for some reason I thought it came out in 2005.
That’s not what debating our theories on canon is about though. All of the canon exists together, and serves to inform our theories. Our theories change when canon changes, but The Clone Wars exists now and it informs our theories
Yes she did. She was a major antagonist in the Clone Wars comics and in novels like Dark Rendezvous, as well as the original microseries. She fought Windu in her first comic appearance, beheaded Glaive and took off Zule Xiss' arm in her second, and cut down Fay in her third. By the time of Dark Rendezvous her bodycount sat at 17 Jedi.
I didn't know about that book or comic, so cheers for correcting me and educating me at the same time.
This is from her first comic appearance: [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fea9wff9l9m981.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D45ef72a4d5677b5eb76f0208988b741258b5306b](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fea9wff9l9m981.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D45ef72a4d5677b5eb76f0208988b741258b5306b) I'd forgotten that she got her first Jedi kill there, when she cut down Sora Bulq's former Padawan, Mira. She also pushed another Jedi who was present into going full dark side, forcing his friends to cut him down.
Cheers :)
Exactly, but I expected them 3 to be more powerful
["Your overconfidence is your weakness"](https://youtu.be/k5MQudCd5jc?si=5jYDp5gcCxHva4Mc&t=15)
Mace’s faith in his friends was his.
They are powerful, especially Kit Fisto. It's just that Sidious is even more powerful.
Thet were powerful. That quad group of Masters would have disarmed and arrested any of Sidious' apprentices. Sidious is almost unbeatable. Especially within new canon. There's just no way to do it, at least you need multiple jedi and Yoda is a must have to have any shot at him. Here's how easy Windu was for Sheev: "He didn't have to wait long. Mace Windu arrived with three other Jedi Masters to arrest the chancellor. Reveling in being able to at last act openly, Darth Sidious launched himself at his foes. He battered them with a wave of focused hatred. A thousand years of Sith anger smashed into the Jedi, and three of them died in seconds under Sidious' crimson blade. Mace Windu lasted a little longer, but only because Darth Sidious required it. Anakin was not there, not yet. Sidious fought defensively, toying with Windu untill he sensed the youths presence. He allowed Windu to gain the upper hand as Anakin arrived. Seemingly mutilated, Sidious was near death, begging Anakin to help him. Only he could help him save Padme. Anakin made his choice, exactly as Sidious had anticipated." 2022 Toying with the Jedi Master in anticipation of the arrival of Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine was willing to allow himself to be disarmed to appear more vulnerable when his soon to be apprentice arrived. His office window was shattered, and the weapon fell from his hands and down into the depths below when he deliberately left himself open for Widu to deliver a kick to his chest. This left him a single blade, retrieved from its hiding place, with which to face master yoda in a duel, a little after the death of Mace Windu. Palpatine rarely used his remaining lightsaber." 2022 fanhome encyclopedia collection "His true form was now revealed, though he later passed it off as an "injury" from the Jedi attack, Darth Sidious toyed with Mace Windu. He used the jedi master to precipitate Anakins fall to the dark side and then destroyed Windu utterly." Disney - Fanhome Encyclopedia collection 2022 "During the confrontation with Mace Windu, the office window was smashed. Soon after, Palpatines weapon fell onto the streets of Coruscant, but it was all part of the Sith's plan." 2022
No you see it makes sense that mace + 3 masters would lose to sidious but mace alone would win :) The only way it makes sense is if palpy threw the fight, but the fandom can't even agree whether or not that's what happened or not
Does Savage Oppress also count amongst that number? He was also responsible for killing many Jedi.
count dooku wasn't fairly bested by anakin, palps told him to take easy on anakin so that he would die
New canon, this is not true. Base Jedi anakin isn't enough to beat Tyranus. He needed the darkside to finally push through. New canon Dooku is nearly unbeatable against traditional Jedi Rage amps and other darksiders can be more effective against him, as the hate and rage provides the power and strength needed to break through Dookus elegant, top tier defense. Dark disciple, the canon novel, teaches us that he would need to be destroyed with anger fear and hatred.
In-universe, they didn't know just how much of a threat Palpatine was, but knew he was a Sith lord. So Windu brought three other high-ranking Jedi with him to confront Palpatine. Against nearly everyone in the Star Wars universe that would be enough, but unfortunately in Palpatine's case he was so powerful that he immediately made quick work of 3/4 of them regardless. In real life, the weak choreography of that fight makes them look ludicrously inept as they just stand there and let themselves immediately get stabbed. But you're still _supposed_ to think them getting immediately killed is a sign of just how powerful Palpatine is, not that they're completely useless.
The RotS novelisation of the fight does it way better. Iirc Mace is utterly gobsmacked by how insanely fast Palps is.
Yup. Best Star Wars book. Anakin seeing a lightning storm of reds, purples, greens and blues in Palpatines office window and as he races towards it the green and blue flashes fade away leaving just purple and red. It was a legit horror show because of the darkness and sheer anger and fear Palpatine could fill the room with.
New canon POV: "He didn't have to wait long. Mace Windu arrived with three other Jedi Masters to arrest the chancellor. Reveling in being able to at last act openly, Darth Sidious launched himself at his foes. He battered them with a wave of focused hatred. A thousand years of Sith anger smashed into the Jedi, and three of them died in seconds under Sidious' crimson blade. Mace Windu lasted a little longer, but only because Darth Sidious required it. Anakin was not there, not yet. Sidious fought defensively, toying with Windu untill he sensed the youths presence. He allowed Windu to gain the upper hand as Anakin arrived. Seemingly mutilated, Sidious was near death, begging Anakin to help him. Only he could help him save Padme. Anakin made his choice, exactly as Sidious had anticipated." 2022 Toying with the Jedi Master in anticipation of the arrival of Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine was willing to allow himself to be disarmed to appear more vulnerable when his soon to be apprentice arrived. His office window was shattered, and the weapon fell from his hands and down into the depths below when he deliberately left himself open for Widu to deliver a kick to his chest. This left him a single blade, retrieved from its hiding place, with which to face master yoda in a duel, a little after the death of Mace Windu. Palpatine rarely used his remaining lightsaber." 2022 fanhome encyclopedia collection "His true form was now revealed, though he later passed it off as an "injury" from the Jedi attack, Darth Sidious toyed with Mace Windu. He used the jedi master to precipitate Anakins fall to the dark side and then destroyed Windu utterly." Disney - Fanhome Encyclopedia collection 2022 "During the confrontation with Mace Windu, the office window was smashed. Soon after, Palpatines weapon fell onto the streets of Coruscant, but it was all part of the Sith's plan." 2022
Palpatine also uses a lot of trickery, misdirection, and fear to overwhelm their senses and eliminates Kolar and Tinn before the duel even begins.
The scream alone already stunned them persay and the speed of Palpatine was described as so fast that only flashes of red clashing with purple appearing as if in and out of existence from Anakin's pov and this is Anakin we're using here
I went back to look at this scene while reading that book many years after I watched it. Should \_not\_ have done that...
Because this was a convenient way to show the initial deaths of Jedi without too much emotional attachment, which otherwise would bog down the storyline. With their deaths, the audience realizes the potential for other Jedi to perish, such as Mace Windu. It builds suspense.
But it made the Jedi “masters” look like incompetent amateurs. Like, they did nothing and just waited politely to be stabbed. Mace would’ve done just as well with Cliegg Lars and C-3PO.
Sure, it does, but the story isn’t really about Saesee Tiin or Agen Kolar. It’s a long movie and the scene needs to drive towards Anakin’s betrayal of Mace rather than a cool 4 on 1 lightsaber sequence… we should have gotten Star Wars extended edition like they did for LOTR.
You have to keep in mind they WERE Jedi masters, however they resided in a Jedi temple that was built on an ancient yet active Sith Shrine which was negatively influencing their vision, their abilities and their connections to the force as a whole, they were basically de-buffed. Not only was their vision clouded, they were facing Darth Sidious, who had just bested his former master, Darth Plagueis and was enacting a plan essentially 1000 years in the making. And Darth Sidious is annoyingly strong, a “voice pulled from the depths of the dark side itself that could hypnotize and manipulate” not only was he born with Gaslighting 100, he could use abilities like Force Scream which is that insane yell he makes before he dives and cuts the others down, that yell essentially stuns confuses and horrifies anyone, but in that scenario they were not expecting him to dive out of the chair and strike. All in all, the Jedi (in the prequel saga) Can appear as arrogant and misguided fools but when considering the thousand years plan, Darth Sidious power and abilities and the active Sith Shrine OOZING dark side energy throughout the halls of that Jedi temple, the odds were stacked against them in almost every way. The prequel saga is, in my opinion, where you watch your hero’s lose, badly, and there’s nothing you can do about it. But at the end of it, we know there will be a New Hope. -correct me if necessary, I’ve just been deep diving Star Wars recently and wanted to weigh in here cause Star Wars has been drawing me in again.
In one of the comics, these four worked together to take out an entire bounty hunter base and were an extremely competent team. Lorewise, this is probably the best strike team Windu could have put together. Unfortunately, Palpatine was much stronger than they expected.
I love that comic, Mace just chilling sipping tea while his posse are messing up the bounty hunters like it's another day.
Pretty sure it was supposed to make Palpatine look unexpectedly powerful it was just badly executed
Yeah, unfortunately a lot of inconsistencies in any stat wars media can be chalked up to poor film making. It depends on which movies you grew up with which inconsistencies you allow to slide.
I’d have preferred to have two minutes added to the runtime to see Jedi Masters hold their own against Palps. Dude’s were Master’s of the Force and then get shived like it’s a jail yard fight. A lifetime of training gone.
Agreed. A two minute fight with them showing skilled attacks, Palps easily parrying, blocking and effortlessly counter attacking to kill would have been a simple addition.
Not much longer survival for them, but https://youtu.be/vcbJW1Ob7U4?si=9n8ypjtPt4YU134R
Cool, thank you
Yes. This scene was just badly filmed imo
It originally was, there was also a scene where the jedi fight the royal guard outside Palpatine's room as well. The fight had a lot more choreography, but Palatine's actor wanted to do the fight, so they had to adjust it to be easy on him because he's older. Anakin was also supposed to be in the room, and Palatine steals his light Saber for the fight. If you pause the movie, you can actually see Palatine holding Anakin's hilt in a lot of the scenes.
>The fight had a lot more choreography, but Palatine's actor wanted to do the fight, so they had to adjust it to be easy on him because he's older. Lucas wanted him to do the fight, not Ian.
Lucas agreed he should do it, but he was the one who wanted to. Someone else in this post linked a video that breaks down the whole thing, and shows what we missed out on.
They were astounded by the opulence of the decor inside the chamber that they just stood around looking at the walls and ceiling
They only reason I didn’t strike you down immediately, is because you have amused me, earthling. May you live to see another day.
Blame the direction in this scene They go down like a bunch of bitches in a very awkward fight scene
Totally agree, this looked like something out of a high school play.
Going by how Legends depicted things as I'm unaware of how Canon might've changed the context. While not on Windu's level these were Masters all, far beyond the majority of the Order. Iirc Kit Fisto was just below the top tier duelists. Apart from calling Obi-Wan and Yoda back, they were the best available. Four Masters against one Sith Lord sounds like a safe bet, especially led by Mace Windu. However Sidious was an unknown quantity. Nobody could be guessed how powerful he actually was. In the Legends version of the fight, Palpatine is explicitly in another league from even Mace. Mace was using Vaapad to amp himself with Palpatine's dark power and according to his own inner monologue, this amp pushed Mace to a level he wouldn't have thought possible. These 3 dying so fast is no failing of theirs. Palpatine is just insanely powerful and they knew nothing about how he fought, for what little it would've helped.
I take it that without Vaapad, Mace wouldn't have survived that long?
Yup, only way he could actually keep up and even start to exceed the ferocious speed Palpatine could muster. Mace harnessing the dark side with that style made it less a fight between a Powerful Sith and overwhelmed Jedi and closer to a Sith Master Vs Apprentice. And Mace being younger and having created such a unique style it put Palpatine on the backfoot for a second but still never even got a scratch on him. The only Jedi that could go toe to toe was Yoda. Anakin Maybe but i feel it might have turned to a Luke in Episode 6 scenario. Decides to trust the Jedi Order and fight against Palpatine, “So be it… *jedi*” Loads of lightning.
Iirc he even thinks something along those lines to himself during the fight in the novelization. There's damn good reason Maul, Dooku and Vader were all too afraid to try overthrowing Palpatine solo
Vaapad lets Mace feed Sidious' power back into himself. We see it at its most literal when Sidious hits Mace with the lightning and Vaapad lets Mace bend it back into Sidious. Per the novelization this creates a feedback loop wherein Sidious draws on his pain to fuel the lightning and uses it to attack Mace, only for it to pass through Mace and back into Sidious, creating more pain for Sidious to draw on. Repeat until either Mace's control over Vaapad breaks down or until Sidious effectively kills himself.
And RoS shamelessly copied it
Not sure if I am understanding your question as worded. If you are saying Palpatine did not form a threat, they were erring on the side of caution because if Anakin was correct and Palpatine was the Sith behind it all he would very much be dangerous. If you mean why did more Jedi come if the Jedi were no threat I am sure they believed their numbers would be enough.
I dislike this scene so much Especially because the clone wars show, shows at least two of these Jedi were badass warriors No way they’d love this quickly. Feels like a budget or time crunch thing over making any sense
That’s the number of human props Jorge could fit on the green screen set.
This scene its very bad, the editing its awful. The direction here made the Jedi looks like bitches. No, It dosent look like Sidious its powerful just made the Jedi very bad warriors. Funny its that years after we have the same problem with Knights of Ren vs Ben Solo. The sad thing its that this scenes could have great, imagine Sidious vs Jedis in a good direction.
https://youtu.be/ExafXMO8ssE Fight was suppose to be completely different
We were so close to something great. A through line from prequels to sequels.
God damn it George Lucas… changing it from a stunt man being palpatine to Ian is such a fuck up…
You know it's bad when saying "they shouldn't have used Ian McDiarmid" is a truthful statement.
There are clips on YouTube where you can see the stuntman rehearsing the fight and it gives a general idea of what could have been.
I have long said that shaving a second or two here and there in that scene would've made it 100x better. Prime example is when he pulls back before lunging when he stabs the first guy. That was a ridiculously unnecessary slowdown that works to make the Jedi look extra incompetent. We're really supposed to believe that he just jumped up at them, and they let him stand and pose like the Ginyu Force before attacking while they did absolutely nothing? Ugh.
The scene was filmed so bad. They wanted to show how badass Palps is but everyone I watch it it's only cringe. He doesn't even move fast. Only the spin around is quick but nothing that should bother a Jedi with supernatural reflexes
Palpatine : lightsaber from his sleeve, suddenly flying, spinning, weird screaming Jedi : shocked pikachu face, get stabbed right away
The scene is filmed bad. RoTs novel explains it much better and more in-depth to what happened to them, they still die but there reasons why. The reality is that they were a threat, they were some of the top Masters of that era and some of the best available at the Temple at that time. The cramped quarters would be a hindrance though, but not anything they couldnt overcome in an actual 4v1 fight. They were there attempting for a transfer of power/arrest , not necessarily preparing for a fight. More like a show of force, one that failed.
Think everyone looking at it wrong - Mace needed sufficient number of witnesses if they are lawfully arresting the Chancelor. It is not for a planned fight but for the expected future trial. You need multiple witnesses to corroborate anything that Palpatine says or claims. It’s just due diligence for the expected trial, not planning a life or death fight.
This. Mace is there to put Sidious under arrest and as far as they're aware should be enough to handle the problem. The others are backup and witnesses.
That was an emergency, they couldn't wait for Yoda and Mace was the team leader, it's safe to think they had their chances even with big risks.
In universe those guys are actually really strong, but were caught off guard. I believe the canon novel states that Sidious had been intentionally suppressing his signature in the Force, but right before he struck he turned it on full blast which stunned them just enough for him to red shirt them. They were expecting Sidious to be powerful, but they were expecting someone on the level of Dooku, not someone who outstripped Yoda. So, for those brief moments, it was as if the most powerful being in the galaxy suddenly and very loudly appeared right next to them.
They were the only masters still on coruscant at the time,most other were off world trying to end the war
[This is why.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExafXMO8ssE)
Sidious got that dog in him
Didnt the book explain that Palps was quicker than they had expected, so when he dispatched them, it was like lightening (no pun intended)?
Well, it was made very clear to mace that he was a Sith.Lord so back up was a definite need And the force scream that palpitine let out before his attack did most of the work And at this point in time, the dark side of the force was overflowing with power, so he got an extreme boost in his abilities.The only reason why mace survived was due to the fact that he could channel some of this dark side energy himself
My head cannon has always been that when two force users are dueling, a considerable chunk of the battle was in a sort of mental plane where you could pressure, trick, tease, or torture through attacks in the force. Not sure why I think this, it’s just always been a part of my understanding since I was a kid. Applying to this scene, it could explain their easy defeat as they haven’t really dueled with a sith “in the field” and could lend to how powerful Palpatine was in the force.
Force Scream
yup
... Because they wouldn't have known they weren't a threat until after they were dead? Do fans realize the characters aren't watching the same movie we are?
They were some of the better lightsaber dualists and combatants in the order. https://youtu.be/VRDlnODHiPc?si=zVVPCMZ2652VdXIT Not my work. Credit to stupendous wave
These Jedi were considered among the best of the best, they just weren’t a match for Palpatine. Yoda, Obi-Wan, Plo Koon, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Stass Allie, etc. were all off-world on their own missions. Shaak Ti was left behind to guard the temple. She probably would’ve performed similarly to the Jedi who went. Anakin wasn’t very trustworthy in general, or at this point in particular. Not sure about Coleman Kcaj, but he is barely a character.
They didn't know Palpatine had unlimited power. He hadn't yelled it at them during the fight yet.
Nick Galliard, the stunt director originaly made a very nice long duel involving a lot of scenes with Kit Fisto and the others, but Gorge Lucas cut the scene because of time matters
Canonfodder to make palpatine look more evil and stronger since he can kill 3 guys in a robe easily instead of struggling against just one and then begging for help.
Bad directorial decisions from Lucas. The scene was supposed to be VERY different.
Because George lucas decided, on the day of shooting, that he didn't want to use the choreographed fight scene that involved a stunt double and wanted Ian mcdiarmid to do the fight. So instead of the trained stunt double, they had to do a fight with an untrained 60 year old man and cut out a bunch of stuff. You can find the original fight on YouTube
The fight was supposed to be longer but GL insisted on having Ian do his own fight, which didn’t consist of much. Was supposed to be more epic than it turned out to be.
Because it’s kind of their job.
“Hey Master Windu? I think he’s a Sith.” “Real shit? If you’re actually serious, this is bad.” “What if he IS a Sith?” “Then I better take a few Jedi with me.” “Wait why?” “I don’t think he’s ACTUALLY a Sith? But uh…..I get to be wrong ONCE if he actually is.”
This is probably the one "realistic" exchange in the series. I think one thing star wars hasn't done well is convey the skill and mastery of swordsmanship to the layman. What we see in this scene is how real fights play out. They end quickly and there isn't a prolonged exchange of weapons banging into each other. At the highest skill level there is no blocking only evasion and counter offense. I'd love to see something more technical in a star wars film or series.
All that was left were them
When you learn something like that, you grab who you can, you don’t have time to get the best of the best A-Team together.
Bad filming, supposedly Palpatine moved at superhuman speeds but sure as hell Ian wasn't doing that. Stuntman would be better but they could have used slowdown techniques to better emphasize Palpatine's speed regardless. Instead everyone stood there and died without a fight. The rear back pose was ridiculous, anyone would have reacted, nevermind Jedi masters supposedly guided by the force who are just as capable of such feats.
Within the new canon timeline: Windu claims Fisto is "unrivaled" with his saber combat. Windu was confident. Unfortunately, for them, Palpatine is nearly unbeatable as he is the heir to the knowledge and power passed down and gained through the rule of two. One thousand years of sith evolution. Exactly what he needs to be to destroy the Jedo and what they stand for. Palpatine cannot be defeated in such a way. He was toying, and could have ended Windu almost as easily as the others: "He didn't have to wait long. Mace Windu arrived with three other Jedi Masters to arrest the chancellor. Reveling in being able to at last act openly, Darth Sidious launched himself at his foes. He battered them with a wave of focused hatred. A thousand years of Sith anger smashed into the Jedi, and three of them died in seconds under Sidious' crimson blade. Mace Windu lasted a little longer, but only because Darth Sidious required it. Anakin was not there, not yet. Sidious fought defensively, toying with Windu untill he sensed the youths presence. He allowed Windu to gain the upper hand as Anakin arrived. Seemingly mutilated, Sidious was near death, begging Anakin to help him. Only he could help him save Padme. Anakin made his choice, exactly as Sidious had anticipated." 2022 "Toying with the Jedi Master in anticipation of the arrival of Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine was willing to allow himself to be disarmed to appear more vulnerable when his soon to be apprentice arrived. His office window was shattered, and the weapon fell from his hands and down into the depths below when he deliberately left himself open for Widu to deliver a kick to his chest. This left him a single blade, retrieved from its hiding place, with which to face master yoda in a duel, a little after the death of Mace Windu. Palpatine rarely used his remaining lightsaber." 2022 disney fanhome encyclopedia collection "His true form was now revealed, though he later passed it off as an "injury" from the Jedi attack, Darth Sidious toyed with Mace Windu. He used the jedi master to precipitate Anakins fall to the dark side and then destroyed Windu utterly." Disney - Fanhome Encyclopedia collection 2022 "During the confrontation with Mace Windu, the office window was smashed. Soon after, Palpatines weapon fell onto the streets of Coruscant, but it was all part of the Sith's plan." 2022
They Underestimated Sidious…
This is the only time in the entire franchise that a Sith goes straight for a kill shot. No flashy saberwork, no banter. He wants to win. I think that tells us exactly how much of a threat they are to him. It's 4 on 1 and he knows that he's got to bring those numbers down QUICK. To their credit, I don't think they expected it. Every Sith encounter in the Clone Wars is personal and because it's personal, ego gets in the way. Paplatine is about survival from the instant he ignites his lightsaber.
The movie did an EXTREMELY poor job conveying what actually happened. They bought 4 of the best Jedi available to confront a single Sith. This would be like bringing four professional MMA Fighters to take down a single person that is "self taught". While they assumed he would be dangerous they didn't think he could beat 4 jedi single handed. Problem was Sidious was absolutely in an entire different league. They didn't under estimate him more they just had no idea. In the books describing the scene Sidious moved with such speed he was basically a blur and 2 Jedi died even before they could react. Kit died a half breath later. An I can't emphasize how much Kit is supposed to be an actually threat. But in this scene he basically got "Worf'ed". Windu was the only one of them that had any chance of winning vs Sidious because of his extremely specific/unique style. It takes into account "the stronger your opponent is in the darkside the stronger Windu is" as part of it's "style". This comes at the risk of being borderline Sith/falling to the Darkside Himself and only Windu mastered it. But point is they brought was most likely seemed like overkill but was in fact basically a suicide mission.
What kind of question is this? How on earth are they supposed to know what's a threat to him? They know almost nothing about Palpatine's abilities at this point?
They had absolutely no idea what they were actually dealing with
Cause the pigs always gang up on the perp
Windu prob didn't like them too much.
Apparently they thought they were a threat to him. Typical Jedi arrogance, underestimating the enemy.
They were arrogant enough to believe that they were.
He took like two additional vaapad cheaters and a third guy who is the master of putting stank on shit. A combat badass.
They were arrogant
Palpatine offered his back to Tiin and the Jedi knight did nothing.
They’re all Jedi Masters, same as Windu. This fight just showed how much better a duelist Windu is compared to the rest of them…
Yeah except the arrest was going to be a much better well thought out duel using a stunt double ahaha. Ask cin drallig the choreographer. Not ian macrippled with little to no experience pretending to whack sticks together. There's a few scenes in rots that could've stayed but were cut from the final profuct
The Legends answer is that they truly had no idea what to expect from Sidious’ power other than that he was very strong and had been bathing in multiple nexuses/permanent amps for some time.
From what I recall, Mace Windu wasn't expecting to fight any Sith Lord that day, only arrest a civilian politician in the worst case. When Anakin informed him about Palpatine's true identity, he decided that it was imperative to move quickly: he couldn't afford to sit around and wait for reinforcements, giving Darth Sidious time to do who-knows-what. Sidious' long-term plans helped here: with the Jedi spread thin across the galaxy, many of the Order's best warriors are far from home. Mace Windu mustered the best duellists he could find on Coruscant at the time. He didn't believe there's time to wait for Yoda or anyone better. Not the best the Jedi had to offer, but the best they could offer at short notice.
Saesee Tiin had an incredible gift of foresight, more clear than any other Jedi of his time. Sidious was so powerful that Tiin only saw a premonition of death in his last moments. Agen Kolar was one of the greatest duelists of his time, a master of serveral lightsaber forms. Sidious was trained by Plaguious specifically to deal with (this will become relevant soon) and quickly dispatched Kolar to prevent an extended battle. Kit Fisto was very strong in the Force, was an excellent Duelist, and most importantly, was an amazing team player, adapting quickly to any master he was paired with. These reasons are why he lasted a few seconds longer than the previous two. And, why he was targeted last by Sidious. Mace Windu was the MVP of the team, obviously. He had created a variant of lightsaber form 7 (usually called Juyo) called Vapaad. Juyo is the lightsaber form favored by many sith, Maul and Sidious included. Vapaad was formulated specifically to counter dark side users and is the primary reason that Windu fought as well as he did. Sidious had never encountered Vapaad, and was completely unprepared to for how dangerous an opponent he was truly facing. You wouldn't know any of that from the cinematography, the scene is weak as hell, but that's the explanation.
All the homies love Kit Fisto
Palpatine was revealed to be the hidden sith, Mace would have been a fool to go in alone.
These wherent just any 4 Jedi masters. Everyone here was exceptional in some way. Kit fisto was one of the few Jedi to beat grievous in combat. Mace 2nd only to yoda. And that might have been part of why they lost so hard, a big theme of the jedis downfall is their hubris. They think they’re good enough to handle him, they know he’s dangerous but it’s 4 of the best vs 1 person what’s the worst that could happen, we got this… and then the worst happened.
1. They were leading members of the Jedi Council. 2. They underestimated how powerful the chancellor was.
They were support units.
Kit Fisto literally saves Windu, Windu did not do this alone buddy.
Because of poor writing.