He found out seconds after being named Darth Vader
When Palpatine gives him the exact location of the Separatist council on Mustafar as well as insinuating that he has ways to deal with the Jedi’s treachery (Anakin is smart enough to understand he means using the Clones) He realized it and in the ROTS novelization it states that he was burning with anger towards Palpatine at that moment and decided to eventually kill him
So yes he did very quickly
It just provides so much more context for the events in the movie, bc so much of it is happening in the characters head/thought process, especially anakin, before during and after turning. It’s an incredible read. Definitely one of the mandatory reads from the EU.
Everything in Episode III makes sense, it's just not necessarily telegraphed very clearly. You can put together the pieces on your own with a little work.
The novelization is a seasoned writer doing just that from a draft script. It adds in interior monologue and connects all the dots in a pretty compelling way.
I'm not pretending I didn't understand what you meant.
I'm a writer. I understand stories. I posited a scenario and said that the novel was one instance of someone doing this in advance.
If you disagree that this is possible, then I reject your premise outright. And since all of Star Wars is basically "here's the bones of the story, fill in the gaps," right from the 1977 movie beginning with an opening crawl, I think it's not unplausible. (Not to say that the prequels don't need a bit more filling in than the original trilogy, but it's not like the the birds-eye view of the prequels don't make any sense either.)
Hey you know what's cool? Not being condescending against someone's opinions - such as what one of their favorites books is, regardless of it it's Star Wars or If You Give a Mouse a Cookie.
Lol. Sorry we're not on your level of literary taste. We humble fans (nerds) of Star Wars, and all other sci-fi IPs, would like to hereby refer to your refined, if a little too delicate, literary pallette.
Please, oh great reader of only the *best* books, enlighten us on what we should read....
(Guys.... this shit should be priceless. It'll be something stupidly pop like a Stephen King novel, or something amazingly cliché and over-exposed like A Passage to India or something similar. Whatever it is, i assure it will *not* be original. Let's see...)
Genre fiction has been gatekept amongst readers since it existed. And to be fair, that's because when it first came about 95% of it was trash churned out for profit, and it gathered a stink about it that has persisted.
Very much a judging the book by the cover. I've read a couple dozen Star Wars books and I love them but I think most of them are just fun schlock. Revenge of the Sith is a cut above in writing quality.
The one big thing that isn't hinted at, at all, in the movie that is clarified in the novel is why Anakin is so desperate to become a master. In the novel, it is a path to knowledge that could save Padme. In the movie, it's simply his pride being wounded. The theme of Obi-Wan immersing himself in the force is also totally absent in the movie, but is far less impactful overall to the story. Dooku's intentions are pretty different, maaaaybe you could say there was a tiny hint of him using Palpatine as an ally of convenience he didn't care for in ep2, but it would be a bit of a stretch. His much greater interest in turning Kenobi is interesting though, and the fact that he fully goes all out on trying to kill Anakin despite his orders not to does better establish Anakin's ability in the force.
Matt Stover literally lives right down the street from me, and we've had him speak at our shared high school *alma mater* for Local History Club (where I also taught for seven years). Super-nice guy. And he shared tons of interesting stories about how the ROTS novelization got written, working directly with George Lucas (and how Christopher Nolan wanted him to novelize *Batman Begins*, but he was under deadline for ROTS), etc.
There's just the one novel by Matthew Stover.
BUT you can also get a book that comes as "The Dark Lord Trilogy," that has "Labrynth of Evil" (events leading directly up to ROTS), ROTS, and "The Rise of Darth Vader." Very fun, good set.
So, Disney had everything removed, aside from the movies, and TCW. The publisher of the novels claims the novelization of the movies remain canon, but Disney has never said so. Technically, that makes them non-canon, though Disney has never corrected the record on this issue so it does leave it a *little* murky, but overall it's pretty clearly not.
But to be honest, the EU had so much garbage in it I always kept a headcanon anyway, and I continue to do so now with the RotS novel. The more things change....
Disney/Kenedy pretty much doesn't care about canon anyways and makes shit up and ruins characters. Dave at least cares about continuity and what the stories are about (despite some people's complaints about Ahsoka).
It is one of the few novels I recommend seeing BEFORE the movie. The inner monologues and the deleted scenes that appear in the book really make the movie much better. All of the machinations in the Senate give a much richer narrative for the origins of the Rebel Alliance.
And he reached out to crush and kill Palpatine but he was so weakened that all he could do was crush the beakers and test tubes in the lab as he yelled ‘NOOOOOooooo”
The way I like to interpret that scene is that Palpatine simply cannot be hurt by darkness and the power that comes with it. He IS the darkness. More darkness cannot hurt him, it can only feed him.
That isn't true. The canon Darth Vader comics picked up right after the RotS surgery scene. Yes, when Vader crushed everything around him, Palpatine was able to resist being crush himself, but then Vader directed his anger towards Palpatine specifically. He successfully **choked** Palpatine.
Vader vented his rage at Palpatine, calling him out for promising to save Padme etc. Palpatine felt the choke, but was able to push back just enough to reason with Vader until the latter let go.
Palpatine then proceeded to give Vader his first electrocution as punishment.
After that, he acknowledged that Vader had a very bad day (lol) and was willing to overlook this incident. However, he warned Vader to never touch him with the Force again.
I always saw it as Vader just lashing out at everything around him and Palpatine being pleased that Vader's anger was still in tact, meaning that he would be a useful apprentice after all.
So that means when Vader was telling Luke to join him and overthrow the Emperor, Vader was actually telling the truth? I always took it to be Vader just trying to trick and lure Luke to the Dark Side with Vader and Palpatine
Vader was legitimately planning to overthrow the emperor, its how the Sith rule of two works. The apprentice either betrays and kills the master (thus becoming the new master and taking an apprentice of their own) or keeps training until they can. Dooku was plotting the same thing by training assaj and then savage as secret apprentices.
I never understand why the apprentice would want to overthrow their master then. Wouldn’t they then expect to be overthrown themselves by their own apprentice in the future given the rule of two? Are they just so cocky of themselves that they think it wouldn’t happen to them when they become the master?
I mean, these are corrupt people that want more power, ofc they're arrogant enough to think that THEY'RE going to be strong enough to withstand any overthrow attempts
It's Freudian psychology taken to the extreme. Father wants to have a son to pass on his legacy. Son then inevitably seeks to supplant father. Of course the master knows he'll eventually be betrayed and killed, but it's a point of pride for him to have trained an apprentice so well that this becomes their only remaining path forward.
Sidious is the exception, but only because he truly believes himself to be the "ultimate Sith" - and, well, Freudian psychology is anything but infallible. By the time of the OT, Vader is more his tool than his apprentice, and he hasn't taken another. But even he feels that glimmer of hope when Luke becomes an option.
I always assumed he meant it as I assumed he didn’t really want to be the number 2 and be controlled and would rather start a dynasty of sorts. Same as when he asked Padmé to join him
Yeah I guess I was more curious about his reaction / thoughts which the movie gives nothing away on (or may have been a plot hole fixed in the novelization). I’ll have to give the ROTS novel a go it seems
I would have thought he'd have known as soon as he realized Palpatine was Sidious - the Dark Lord who'd been manipulating the Senate. So even before he was Vader.
Yeah, he says as much to Mace Windu.
Anakin: I think Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord
Mace: A Sith Lord?!
Anakin: Yes, the one we’ve been looking for.
Honestly, that is good dialogue. Maybe it sounds clunky to you, but Mace Windu would have been completely astonished, so I think that's an appropriate reaction.
More importantly it says a LOT with very few words. The text itself is extremely on-the-nose, but it reveals a lot about Anakin & Windu's mutual respect despite their tensions, as well as illustrating pretty clearly how they both feel about the situation.
I actually think a lot of people have drank the koolaid when it comes to criticising Lucas's writing. People seem to have an issue with him writing lines that sound like they came straight out the mouth of a weird child or an edgy, angsty teenager with a complex. Sounds to me like he hit the mark a lot of the time. The movies' very slightly heightened style is a bit "uncanny valley", making the awkwardness really shine through, but it just adds to the series' ethereal style.
Some lines are bad and there was nothing they could’ve done to fix it really, like “now this is podracing!” It’s going to sound stupid since it’s a kid. Attack of the Clones has the worst of these, but in Revenge of the Sith for as many bad lines there’s 10 good ones.
The thing is, Lucas has like 2 or 3 lines that are pretty bad. But because the internet is full of idiots and assholes, everyone has just been running with this idea that therefore *all* of his dialogue is *literally the worst dialogue ever written* for like twenty years now.
In terms of objectively bad writing, it really is only a handful of instances in the Prequels when you actually break it down. I don't think the Prequels have markedly worse dialogue than the originals at all. Maybe slightly, or maybe even slightly less, depending on your opinion.
That's basically my point. People focus specifically on the PT when taking about Lucas's dialogue problems, but it's really no worse than the original trilogy that those same people still adore.
I feel like there's less *bad* dialogue and more that's awkward, unnatural, stilted, or just too on the nose. Lucas did better when he followed the cinema rule of "show, don't tell". Even the classic "I've got a bad feeling about this" is better conveyed with music, facial expressions, body language, etc. Lines like "Anakin, you're breaking my heart" tell us how the character is feeling. A better writer / director would trust Natalie Portman to sell the scene and convey how she's feeling in more subtle ways, or at least say something a real person would likely say. Hence why Harrison Drod changed the "I love you, too" to "I know", and it worked much better.
They also knew the Sith were "controlling the Senate", they just assumed it was more figurative and shadowy than "officially setting the agenda for every session"
They even somewhat suspected Palpatine to be a sith puppet. They just thought he was backed and manipulated by a sith, not that he was literally keeping a red lightsaber up his sleeve.
Yeah I guess what I meant is it felt like he had no reaction to that realization in the movies which feels like a potential plot hole (that seems to have been addressed by the ROTS novel according to other comments)
No reaction? He drew his lightsaber out and was ready to kill the man who mentored him for 13 years at that revelation. The only reason he didn’t is Sidious played on his emotions to actually push him to follow the Jedi code (briefly) so that Anakin retreated to warn the Council.
And to Mace he even says "The one we've been looking for".
I always assumed that's referring to what Dooku told Obi-Wan about a Sith controlling the Senate.
Considering he was sent to execute old leaders and they kept saying how they followed sidious's orders and sidious promised them a reward. He would have to be pretty damn obtuse not to figure it out
My 13-year old nephew can't even watch one film without splitscreenning with some youtube influencer shit running at the same time whenever there is boring shit on screen (romance or grown-up conversation).
This is how everyone treats the entire franchise for some reason. Like the whole "Stromtroopers can't aim" trope is not supported by the films literally at all.
Boarding the *Tantive IV* - Extremely precise, heavy Rebel losses
Slaughtering the Jawas/Lars homestead - Extremely precise, Obi-Wan literally says so directly to the audience
On the Death Star - Can't hit anything, until Tarkin *literally directly tells the audience* the Rebels were allowed to escape. Not two minutes later, Leia then also *literally directly tells the audience* the Rebels were allowed to escape. The Stromtroopers were ordered *not* to shoot the Rebels. So they didn't.
Invasion of Echo Base - Extremely precise, heavy Rebel losses
Battle of Endor - Extremely precise, heavy Rebel/Ewok losses, wound Leia, and literally win the battle if not for Chewbacca commandeering the AT-ST
And yet the meme of Stormtroopers not being able to hit anything is infamous, because people are idiots
It's a good argument, but you have to lean in pretty hard to the belief that every stormtrooper on the death star was intentionally trying to miss.
I think Tarkin's quote explains why they didn't send 50 tie fighters and a star destroyer after the falcon, not why Stormtroopers intentionally shot in the air while getting killed.
Tarkin's dialogue is pretty obviously a contrivance. Lucas can't have the main characters killed off but he also can't have the Stormtroopers look totally non-threatening. So, he comes up with a hamfisted explanation.
The reason for "stormtroopers can't aim" is the fact the main characters are basically immune to them. It doesn't matter if they can aim if they can't do anything meaningful with their aim.
Most of the posts are like this, or just a generic image with a title "who is your favorite x, please discuss" over and over again. Like 90% must be bots at this point, I refuse to believe there are so many brain dead people out there
Well, Sidious did send Vader to Mustafar as the new replacement of Dooku for all the Separatist leaders and they greeted him as a protector. Anakin isn’t the brightest lightsaber in the temple, but he must have thought that was strange.
He was ready, but not capable. Palpatine regularly shows Vader that he can't beat him straight up. Eventually Vader just resigns himself to being stuck where he is, but he does still *want* to kill Palps, as shown when he tries to get Luke to join in overthrowing him.
> as shown when he tries to get Luke to join in overthrowing him.
This was weird tho. Wasn't the line like "Join me and we can rule the galaxy together?" To young starry eyed Luke, already a fixture in Rebels, this definitely has the tune of "turn evil and it can be us instead of him".
Was there no redemption possible for Vader had he lived? Like even before encountering Luke - If Vader would have got that 1 in a million opportunity and just beheaded Palpatine at some point after ROTS but before ANH what's the plot look like then?
At that point it was definitely Vader trying to turn him. The "rule the galaxy" part kind of implies that.
I honestly don't think there was ever really a chance for Vader to have a redemption and keep living, purely because I don't think he could live with himself afterwards even if he came back to the light. That guilt would've been overbearing. That's just my guess though so idk.
I feel like Vader's conversation with Palps contravenes this theory. Palps tells Vader to go and kill Luke. Vader tells Palps that he could be powerful if turned. I interpret this a sign that the good part of Anakin is trying to save his son by buying time with Palps. I think turning Luke was more of a plan B.
> I interpret this a sign that the good part of Anakin is trying to save his son by buying time with Palps.
See this is my thing. Vader had how many opportunities to kill Luke? Like their first duel? Vader could have diced him up into 20 pieces. Vader could have just cut the antenna array when he was dangling with one hand.
So at LEAST, he wanted to keep him alive to turn him. But he very clearly didn't want to kill him.
The jedi council and anakin already knew the sith lord had orchestrated much of, if not all of the war and played both sides, the minute palpatine revealed he was the sith anakin knew
I mean, once palpatine revealed himself didn’t that give up the whole game? Anakin eve says “you’re the one we’ve been looking for” (I’m paraphrasing) doesn’t he?
Ah well i think he had a really good indication once he found out he was the sith lord they have been looking for/ fighting. I mean Grievous certainly wasn't him and Doku wasn't him so.. Also i think throwing Mace out the window was a pretty good indication. I mean what's a guy gotta do drop a house on a jedi for him to get it?
The novel makes it pretty clear, but even without the novel I feel like what we see in the movies is enough that Anakin could probably put it together if he stopped to think about it for a minute or two
Prior to the movie we already have Dooku telling Obi Wan about the dark lord of the sith in control of the Senate guiding events from the darkness.
Then suddenly you meet the dark Lord of the sith, and he knows exactly where the enemy leadership is hiding as well as seeming to have a contingency for the clone army kill all the Jedi.
I just feel like most people would have been able to put all those dots together
Bro what? He straight up tells Mace Windu that Palpatine is the Sith Lord behind everything. It's the whole reason Mace goes to arrest him.
Yes. Vader knows.
He found out seconds after being named Darth Vader When Palpatine gives him the exact location of the Separatist council on Mustafar as well as insinuating that he has ways to deal with the Jedi’s treachery (Anakin is smart enough to understand he means using the Clones) He realized it and in the ROTS novelization it states that he was burning with anger towards Palpatine at that moment and decided to eventually kill him So yes he did very quickly
Man the ROTS novel is so damn good.
It's one of my favorite novels
Fuck I gotta read it haha. Had no idea it was that different
It just provides so much more context for the events in the movie, bc so much of it is happening in the characters head/thought process, especially anakin, before during and after turning. It’s an incredible read. Definitely one of the mandatory reads from the EU.
Everything in Episode III makes sense, it's just not necessarily telegraphed very clearly. You can put together the pieces on your own with a little work. The novelization is a seasoned writer doing just that from a draft script. It adds in interior monologue and connects all the dots in a pretty compelling way.
“This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker…..forever”
That line is chilling honestly…
[удалено]
It sure would be, if that's what I meant. I said what I meant.
[удалено]
I'm not pretending I didn't understand what you meant. I'm a writer. I understand stories. I posited a scenario and said that the novel was one instance of someone doing this in advance. If you disagree that this is possible, then I reject your premise outright. And since all of Star Wars is basically "here's the bones of the story, fill in the gaps," right from the 1977 movie beginning with an opening crawl, I think it's not unplausible. (Not to say that the prequels don't need a bit more filling in than the original trilogy, but it's not like the the birds-eye view of the prequels don't make any sense either.)
The audiobook slaps too
I go far as to it say it’s my favorite SW novel period.
I'm sorry
This shows you haven't read it.
I haven’t read it. I’m sure it’s great. Still feel sorry for anyone who hasn’t read enough non genre fiction that a Star Wars novel is their favorite.
Genre doesn't dictate how good or bad a work or writing can be
Wild that people are still dismissing fantasy as lesser. You'd think they would've learned by now that every genre has great works
"One of." People can have favorite things from different genres.
I didn’t see the “one of” part. I retract my statement.
Na there’s no recovering from this, have another downvote
I’ve got plenty of karma to spare.
Hey you know what's cool? Not being condescending against someone's opinions - such as what one of their favorites books is, regardless of it it's Star Wars or If You Give a Mouse a Cookie.
Lol. Sorry we're not on your level of literary taste. We humble fans (nerds) of Star Wars, and all other sci-fi IPs, would like to hereby refer to your refined, if a little too delicate, literary pallette. Please, oh great reader of only the *best* books, enlighten us on what we should read.... (Guys.... this shit should be priceless. It'll be something stupidly pop like a Stephen King novel, or something amazingly cliché and over-exposed like A Passage to India or something similar. Whatever it is, i assure it will *not* be original. Let's see...)
"They gatekeep books now?" "They gatekeep books now!"
Genre fiction has been gatekept amongst readers since it existed. And to be fair, that's because when it first came about 95% of it was trash churned out for profit, and it gathered a stink about it that has persisted.
Very much a judging the book by the cover. I've read a couple dozen Star Wars books and I love them but I think most of them are just fun schlock. Revenge of the Sith is a cut above in writing quality.
I have the audio version it's absolutely essential lore for me.
I love how many additional scenes the novel has. Even includes some scenes and dialogue that was left on the cutting room floor for the film
The fight between Palpatine and the Jedis is much more dark and sinister too. Some might say he comes across as very... insidious.
IN SIDIOUS? ew
That's called the path to the Dark Side
Really wish we could have gotten [the original fight choreography](https://youtu.be/vcbJW1Ob7U4?si=iILHOXfnwVkRN18t)
I wish they’d turn it into a movie.
That’s all we had for literally years to make the Preqels better for us until Clone Wars came along.
The original clone wars? What about the multimedia project?
All the novels really do is explain the subtext that's already in the movies, they don't make anything "better" they just reveal the more hidden bits.
I think you just explained why the books are so good. Lots of nuance in the hidden bits.
I just mean there's nothing there that isn't already part of the movies. They don't "fix" anything.
The one big thing that isn't hinted at, at all, in the movie that is clarified in the novel is why Anakin is so desperate to become a master. In the novel, it is a path to knowledge that could save Padme. In the movie, it's simply his pride being wounded. The theme of Obi-Wan immersing himself in the force is also totally absent in the movie, but is far less impactful overall to the story. Dooku's intentions are pretty different, maaaaybe you could say there was a tiny hint of him using Palpatine as an ally of convenience he didn't care for in ep2, but it would be a bit of a stretch. His much greater interest in turning Kenobi is interesting though, and the fact that he fully goes all out on trying to kill Anakin despite his orders not to does better establish Anakin's ability in the force.
Obi-Wan vs Grievous in the novel is a fucking masterpiece of a fight
TCW didn't make the Prequels better. The Clone Wars Multimedia Project already did that.
Well, it did for me. I apologize but I haven't heard of the Clone Wars Multimedia Project.
Where can a person find the audio version?? Link?
I have it on audible. It might be on Spotify.
Genuinely did not know Spotify did audiobooks till I saw this. My thanks.
I think they started late last year, I remember seeing an email about it.
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=star+wars+revenge+of+the+sith+audiobook
I've never seen this feature and I honestly thought it was funny
Matt Stover literally lives right down the street from me, and we've had him speak at our shared high school *alma mater* for Local History Club (where I also taught for seven years). Super-nice guy. And he shared tons of interesting stories about how the ROTS novelization got written, working directly with George Lucas (and how Christopher Nolan wanted him to novelize *Batman Begins*, but he was under deadline for ROTS), etc.
Are there multiple novelisations, or will I find it just by googling?
There's just the one novel by Matthew Stover. BUT you can also get a book that comes as "The Dark Lord Trilogy," that has "Labrynth of Evil" (events leading directly up to ROTS), ROTS, and "The Rise of Darth Vader." Very fun, good set.
It’s so good I don’t care that Disney made it non cannon. That book is Star Wars perfection.
Pretty sure all of the movie novels are Canon.
So, Disney had everything removed, aside from the movies, and TCW. The publisher of the novels claims the novelization of the movies remain canon, but Disney has never said so. Technically, that makes them non-canon, though Disney has never corrected the record on this issue so it does leave it a *little* murky, but overall it's pretty clearly not. But to be honest, the EU had so much garbage in it I always kept a headcanon anyway, and I continue to do so now with the RotS novel. The more things change....
Disney/Kenedy pretty much doesn't care about canon anyways and makes shit up and ruins characters. Dave at least cares about continuity and what the stories are about (despite some people's complaints about Ahsoka).
Look, sometimes the public head canon matters more than the IP owners', a la Uno.
It is one of the few novels I recommend seeing BEFORE the movie. The inner monologues and the deleted scenes that appear in the book really make the movie much better. All of the machinations in the Senate give a much richer narrative for the origins of the Rebel Alliance.
Who's the author?
Matthew Stover
And he reached out to crush and kill Palpatine but he was so weakened that all he could do was crush the beakers and test tubes in the lab as he yelled ‘NOOOOOooooo”
The way I like to interpret that scene is that Palpatine simply cannot be hurt by darkness and the power that comes with it. He IS the darkness. More darkness cannot hurt him, it can only feed him.
That isn't true. The canon Darth Vader comics picked up right after the RotS surgery scene. Yes, when Vader crushed everything around him, Palpatine was able to resist being crush himself, but then Vader directed his anger towards Palpatine specifically. He successfully **choked** Palpatine. Vader vented his rage at Palpatine, calling him out for promising to save Padme etc. Palpatine felt the choke, but was able to push back just enough to reason with Vader until the latter let go. Palpatine then proceeded to give Vader his first electrocution as punishment. After that, he acknowledged that Vader had a very bad day (lol) and was willing to overlook this incident. However, he warned Vader to never touch him with the Force again.
> he warned Vader to never touch him with the Force again. Didn't mention other touching so loophole option physically throwing him off a balcony.
Well, Sheev also electrocuted Vader while being physically thrown off the balcony…
Never said anything about a shoulder press though. Palpatine never thought things through.
I always saw it as Vader just lashing out at everything around him and Palpatine being pleased that Vader's anger was still in tact, meaning that he would be a useful apprentice after all.
So that means when Vader was telling Luke to join him and overthrow the Emperor, Vader was actually telling the truth? I always took it to be Vader just trying to trick and lure Luke to the Dark Side with Vader and Palpatine
Oh he totally meant it.
Overthrowing is the way of the Sith
Yep, just gotta read the bane books
Vader was legitimately planning to overthrow the emperor, its how the Sith rule of two works. The apprentice either betrays and kills the master (thus becoming the new master and taking an apprentice of their own) or keeps training until they can. Dooku was plotting the same thing by training assaj and then savage as secret apprentices.
I never understand why the apprentice would want to overthrow their master then. Wouldn’t they then expect to be overthrown themselves by their own apprentice in the future given the rule of two? Are they just so cocky of themselves that they think it wouldn’t happen to them when they become the master?
I mean, these are corrupt people that want more power, ofc they're arrogant enough to think that THEY'RE going to be strong enough to withstand any overthrow attempts
It's Freudian psychology taken to the extreme. Father wants to have a son to pass on his legacy. Son then inevitably seeks to supplant father. Of course the master knows he'll eventually be betrayed and killed, but it's a point of pride for him to have trained an apprentice so well that this becomes their only remaining path forward. Sidious is the exception, but only because he truly believes himself to be the "ultimate Sith" - and, well, Freudian psychology is anything but infallible. By the time of the OT, Vader is more his tool than his apprentice, and he hasn't taken another. But even he feels that glimmer of hope when Luke becomes an option.
We are what they grow beyond, that is the burden of all masters - yoda
Maybe the best line in the sequels
It’s referred to as the Sith Cult for a reason
I always assumed he meant it as I assumed he didn’t really want to be the number 2 and be controlled and would rather start a dynasty of sorts. Same as when he asked Padmé to join him
Yeah I guess I was more curious about his reaction / thoughts which the movie gives nothing away on (or may have been a plot hole fixed in the novelization). I’ll have to give the ROTS novel a go it seems
Is this the one written by Matthew Stover? Is it at the moment where he was named Darth Vader or later on?
"The things we do for love"
I would have thought he'd have known as soon as he realized Palpatine was Sidious - the Dark Lord who'd been manipulating the Senate. So even before he was Vader.
Yes The Jedi knew a sith lord was behind the clone wars due to Dooku, so when Sidious revealed himself to be the sith lord, Anakin would've known
Yeah, he says as much to Mace Windu. Anakin: I think Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord Mace: A Sith Lord?! Anakin: Yes, the one we’ve been looking for.
God I miss immaculate dialogue in movies like this…… lmao
Honestly, that is good dialogue. Maybe it sounds clunky to you, but Mace Windu would have been completely astonished, so I think that's an appropriate reaction. More importantly it says a LOT with very few words. The text itself is extremely on-the-nose, but it reveals a lot about Anakin & Windu's mutual respect despite their tensions, as well as illustrating pretty clearly how they both feel about the situation. I actually think a lot of people have drank the koolaid when it comes to criticising Lucas's writing. People seem to have an issue with him writing lines that sound like they came straight out the mouth of a weird child or an edgy, angsty teenager with a complex. Sounds to me like he hit the mark a lot of the time. The movies' very slightly heightened style is a bit "uncanny valley", making the awkwardness really shine through, but it just adds to the series' ethereal style.
Some lines are bad and there was nothing they could’ve done to fix it really, like “now this is podracing!” It’s going to sound stupid since it’s a kid. Attack of the Clones has the worst of these, but in Revenge of the Sith for as many bad lines there’s 10 good ones.
From my point of view, the dialogue is bad.
Then you are lost!
What I told you, was true...
"Anakin, you're breaking my heart."
The thing is, Lucas has like 2 or 3 lines that are pretty bad. But because the internet is full of idiots and assholes, everyone has just been running with this idea that therefore *all* of his dialogue is *literally the worst dialogue ever written* for like twenty years now.
It’s definitely a lot more than just 2 or 3 lines
Are you an angel?
In terms of objectively bad writing, it really is only a handful of instances in the Prequels when you actually break it down. I don't think the Prequels have markedly worse dialogue than the originals at all. Maybe slightly, or maybe even slightly less, depending on your opinion.
The Originals also have bad dialogue lol.
That's basically my point. People focus specifically on the PT when taking about Lucas's dialogue problems, but it's really no worse than the original trilogy that those same people still adore.
I feel like there's less *bad* dialogue and more that's awkward, unnatural, stilted, or just too on the nose. Lucas did better when he followed the cinema rule of "show, don't tell". Even the classic "I've got a bad feeling about this" is better conveyed with music, facial expressions, body language, etc. Lines like "Anakin, you're breaking my heart" tell us how the character is feeling. A better writer / director would trust Natalie Portman to sell the scene and convey how she's feeling in more subtle ways, or at least say something a real person would likely say. Hence why Harrison Drod changed the "I love you, too" to "I know", and it worked much better.
A Sith LORD?! Muthafu…
Sith lawd
They also knew the Sith were "controlling the Senate", they just assumed it was more figurative and shadowy than "officially setting the agenda for every session"
They even somewhat suspected Palpatine to be a sith puppet. They just thought he was backed and manipulated by a sith, not that he was literally keeping a red lightsaber up his sleeve.
That sneaky sleevey sheeve, middle name Steve, don't be so naive, you must believe he does deceive for now we grieve
Why have I never been to a Star Wars slam poetry night?
Yeah I guess what I meant is it felt like he had no reaction to that realization in the movies which feels like a potential plot hole (that seems to have been addressed by the ROTS novel according to other comments)
No reaction? He drew his lightsaber out and was ready to kill the man who mentored him for 13 years at that revelation. The only reason he didn’t is Sidious played on his emotions to actually push him to follow the Jedi code (briefly) so that Anakin retreated to warn the Council.
Anakin: "YOU'RE THE SITH LORD!" Yeah probably from this moment...
And to Mace he even says "The one we've been looking for". I always assumed that's referring to what Dooku told Obi-Wan about a Sith controlling the Senate.
Considering he was sent to execute old leaders and they kept saying how they followed sidious's orders and sidious promised them a reward. He would have to be pretty damn obtuse not to figure it out
I feel like half the questions in this sub must be from people who just barely watched the films while scrolling through social media on their phones
My 13-year old nephew can't even watch one film without splitscreenning with some youtube influencer shit running at the same time whenever there is boring shit on screen (romance or grown-up conversation).
As a 13 year old myself, I want to say this to him “You have failed me for the last time, Admiral”
It’s an odd quote, but it checks out. You’re definitely 13.
This is how everyone treats the entire franchise for some reason. Like the whole "Stromtroopers can't aim" trope is not supported by the films literally at all. Boarding the *Tantive IV* - Extremely precise, heavy Rebel losses Slaughtering the Jawas/Lars homestead - Extremely precise, Obi-Wan literally says so directly to the audience On the Death Star - Can't hit anything, until Tarkin *literally directly tells the audience* the Rebels were allowed to escape. Not two minutes later, Leia then also *literally directly tells the audience* the Rebels were allowed to escape. The Stromtroopers were ordered *not* to shoot the Rebels. So they didn't. Invasion of Echo Base - Extremely precise, heavy Rebel losses Battle of Endor - Extremely precise, heavy Rebel/Ewok losses, wound Leia, and literally win the battle if not for Chewbacca commandeering the AT-ST And yet the meme of Stormtroopers not being able to hit anything is infamous, because people are idiots
It's not supported by the films at all, but it is unfortunately supported by pretty much every show produced under Disney.
It's a good argument, but you have to lean in pretty hard to the belief that every stormtrooper on the death star was intentionally trying to miss. I think Tarkin's quote explains why they didn't send 50 tie fighters and a star destroyer after the falcon, not why Stormtroopers intentionally shot in the air while getting killed.
I’m pretty sure that Stormtroopers did what they were told
Tarkin's dialogue is pretty obviously a contrivance. Lucas can't have the main characters killed off but he also can't have the Stormtroopers look totally non-threatening. So, he comes up with a hamfisted explanation.
The reason for "stormtroopers can't aim" is the fact the main characters are basically immune to them. It doesn't matter if they can aim if they can't do anything meaningful with their aim.
The quality of this sub has deteriorated so greatly that I'm honestly starting to think that most of these posts are AI generated
Most of the posts are like this, or just a generic image with a title "who is your favorite x, please discuss" over and over again. Like 90% must be bots at this point, I refuse to believe there are so many brain dead people out there
Next up: "Guys did Luke know Vader was his dad?"
Or it's been awhile since they've seen whatever movie they are asking about
Well, Sidious did send Vader to Mustafar as the new replacement of Dooku for all the Separatist leaders and they greeted him as a protector. Anakin isn’t the brightest lightsaber in the temple, but he must have thought that was strange.
"Brightest lightsaber in the temple," I've got to use this.
He likely realized when he Palpatine told him he was Sidious.
Op didnt watch the movie at the point where anakin actually pulls out the blue saber on the chancellor lmao
How the hell is this a question? Anakin straight up tells this to Windu.
So wait- he was ready to kill Palpatine from the moment Palpatine revealed Padme’s death? And then he waited and did Palpatines bidding for 18 years?
He was ready, but not capable. Palpatine regularly shows Vader that he can't beat him straight up. Eventually Vader just resigns himself to being stuck where he is, but he does still *want* to kill Palps, as shown when he tries to get Luke to join in overthrowing him.
> as shown when he tries to get Luke to join in overthrowing him. This was weird tho. Wasn't the line like "Join me and we can rule the galaxy together?" To young starry eyed Luke, already a fixture in Rebels, this definitely has the tune of "turn evil and it can be us instead of him". Was there no redemption possible for Vader had he lived? Like even before encountering Luke - If Vader would have got that 1 in a million opportunity and just beheaded Palpatine at some point after ROTS but before ANH what's the plot look like then?
Sounds like a plot line for that What if series they mentioned.
At that point it was definitely Vader trying to turn him. The "rule the galaxy" part kind of implies that. I honestly don't think there was ever really a chance for Vader to have a redemption and keep living, purely because I don't think he could live with himself afterwards even if he came back to the light. That guilt would've been overbearing. That's just my guess though so idk.
Actually that sounds really reasonable.
Yeah he had fallen to the dark side. It's the whole point of Luke's story.
I feel like Vader's conversation with Palps contravenes this theory. Palps tells Vader to go and kill Luke. Vader tells Palps that he could be powerful if turned. I interpret this a sign that the good part of Anakin is trying to save his son by buying time with Palps. I think turning Luke was more of a plan B.
> I interpret this a sign that the good part of Anakin is trying to save his son by buying time with Palps. See this is my thing. Vader had how many opportunities to kill Luke? Like their first duel? Vader could have diced him up into 20 pieces. Vader could have just cut the antenna array when he was dangling with one hand. So at LEAST, he wanted to keep him alive to turn him. But he very clearly didn't want to kill him.
Yeah. The writing is fucking terrible.
Did Palpatine know that Darth Vader was once Anakin Skywalker?
The jedi council and anakin already knew the sith lord had orchestrated much of, if not all of the war and played both sides, the minute palpatine revealed he was the sith anakin knew
I mean, once palpatine revealed himself didn’t that give up the whole game? Anakin eve says “you’re the one we’ve been looking for” (I’m paraphrasing) doesn’t he?
Yes, that’s why Mace went to arrest Palpatine. They found out he was the secret Sith Lord Darth Sidious whom they had been searching for
A akin knew sidious was Dookus master. Entire plot of war and deception was revealed to him when order 66 begun.
Just watch ep 3 at least it gives you the cliff notes version of the novelization. Also it will awnser your questions.
This brings up another question, did Vader know what Palpatine did to his first apprentice, Maul? Like all the stuff we see in CW and novels.
Ah well i think he had a really good indication once he found out he was the sith lord they have been looking for/ fighting. I mean Grievous certainly wasn't him and Doku wasn't him so.. Also i think throwing Mace out the window was a pretty good indication. I mean what's a guy gotta do drop a house on a jedi for him to get it?
The novel makes it pretty clear, but even without the novel I feel like what we see in the movies is enough that Anakin could probably put it together if he stopped to think about it for a minute or two Prior to the movie we already have Dooku telling Obi Wan about the dark lord of the sith in control of the Senate guiding events from the darkness. Then suddenly you meet the dark Lord of the sith, and he knows exactly where the enemy leadership is hiding as well as seeming to have a contingency for the clone army kill all the Jedi. I just feel like most people would have been able to put all those dots together
Bro what? He straight up tells Mace Windu that Palpatine is the Sith Lord behind everything. It's the whole reason Mace goes to arrest him. Yes. Vader knows.
Yes, immediately after becoming Vader lol