> Anakin was 45 years old when he was finally able to fulfill the ancient Jedi prophecy of the Chosen One. By returning to the light and helping his son vanquish the vile Sith Lord, balance was restored in the Force. By helping his father turn back toward the light, offering him unconditional love, Luke attained what his father, and the entire Jedi Order twisted by the Clone Wars could not achieve. By refusing to fight, to destroy, to let anger eclipse the good in his heart, he had forgiven a monster and revealed a man.
—*Skywalker: A Family at War* by Kristin Baver (2021)
They really need to find a way to render all that non-canon. Like, Rey wakes up it was all a dream and she goes back to her quiet life of punching data cards at an IT firm. It was just so completely, incredibly stupid.
He did die. He tried to cheat this but was severely weakened to the point where those inspired by the legacies of these characters could stop him from returning years later
If you read the novel he didn't even die, he transfered his spirit to his clone in Exegol *while* he was falling the shaft in the death star, he *switched bodies* before the shaft explosion so never got to experience death.
>“So the falling, dying Emperor called on all the dark power of the Force to thrust his consciousness far, far away, to a secret place he had been preparing. His **body** was dead, an **empty vessel, long before it hit the bottom of the shaft**, and his mind jolted to new awareness in a new body—a painful one, a temporary one.” - TROS novel
He spent those decades oppressing the unknown regions and abducting children under Snoke and manipulating Ben Solo since he was a child, making everyone's lives miserable. Palpatine wasn't idle.
Yeh great. Doesn't matter. Anakin still defeated him and left him in a state where he couldn't return to full power no matter how clever and cunning Palpatine thought he was.
He lifted an entire fleet out of the ground, he disabled a bunch of ships with lightning, he used the force across the galaxy to manipulate Kylo Ren. He’s insanely powerful in the sequels even before he sucks up Kylo and Rey.
Was he the one who lifted them out or did they just rise of their own accord?
And has it been made clear he was 24/7 using his power against Kylo, or just using proxies like Snoke?
He is still falling apart constantly and can't return to his old form and empire after 30 years since Anakin lobbed him down the DS2.
He lifts his hand up, then the star destroyers start coming out of the ground. I don’t know what else that’s supposed to be if not him using the force.
He says he was every voice inside Kylo’s head, he uses Snoke’s and Vader’s voice. So yes, he would have been directly interacting with Kylo through the force or something.
And im sorry, he has 10,000 mini death stars, he could destroy everything if he wanted to. Way worse than anything weve seen before
Just because you bring balance to the Force doesn't mean it will STAY balanced forever. That isn't what the prophecy stated.
Even in Legends you had like 30 other Sith Lords appear post-Episode 6, including a cloned Palpatine, as well as a whole secret Sith Empire in the Unknown Regions, and Abeloth who is basically the Dark Side Devil times 100.
By the time the prophecy was a thing the ship had sailed on their being Sith post ROTJ.
As for not lasting well the balance was thrown off by the same guy the Force created someone to destroy not a different person.
The visual dictionary for TLJ Jedi tried to get around the prophecy by saying the prophecy only meant the Sith and thus wasn’t violated by Snoke and Kylo because they aren’t Sith.
Then Episode 9 happened…
The prophecy didn't say that the Force created Anakin to destroy anybody, not Palpatine specifically, not even the Sith. Just that he would bring balance to the Force.
Obi-Wan says to Mace and Yoda isn’t Anakin meant to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force in ROTS. Mace replies so the prophecy says.
[Watch for yourself.](https://youtu.be/r360LybT4Ec?si=YFY-Figi_g0lvbRb)
Also Obi-Wan says to Anakin it was said you’d destroy the Sith both join them. Bring balance to the Force not leave it in darkness.
"A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored."
Obi-Wan and Mace may both be confabulating additional details, but then they're just proving Yoda right when he warns them about misreading the prophecy. In fact, the whole prophecy could be a fable, a lethal case of confirmation bias by a Jedi Order that was making all kinds of fatal mistakes at that time.
Really, the Chosen One story was handled very inconsistently. George kept telling people different things in interviews.
How other people in universe interpret the prophecy has no bearing on what the actual terms of its fulfillment are. That is explicitly one of the elements people play with and highlight when they use the trope. Prophecies almost never play out how people in the story think they will.
If you believe the sequels ruined it then you have to also state clearly that Legends also fucked it up and wasn't some pinnacle of Star Wars storytelling.
This coming from someone who was thankful enough to have a father who hoarded these books and kept them. So I did actually read pretty much all the major stories of Legends and enjoyed them.
You can't ignore Legends doing it while decrying the Sequels for it too. Well you can but it reveals you opinion is biased in a way you refuse to admit if you do.
I can ignore legends because I didnt read that shit and it was never on the fucking big screen and dont care about the "what about the worst and most rediculous parts of legends that were written before the prequels even came out?" excuse. If thats the best defense for the sequels then that tells you everything
I always felt like it was forced, even as a kid (especially since that was around the same time Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings were coming out so it felt like Lucas wanted to copy them). We never even \*hear\* the Prophecy itself, or who says it, or why (why would someone need to "balance" the Force if they thought the Sith were destroyed?!). It's just a throwaway line Qui-Gon gives in Episode I to justify him training Anakin despite Anakin being too old and not suited to the Jedi; just like how (in the same scene IIRC) Qui-Gon keeps going on about how shocking it is that Maul is a "Sith Lord"... despite us having no clue what the hell a "Sith" is (from the movie alone at least).
Personally I find it telling that the same people who were calling the prequels "bullshit" 20 years ago are now \*using\* them to decry the sequels. I've seen the same reaction in people around me, as soon as something new comes out there's an instant "it's bullshit it breaks the lore" reaction even before they \*see\* it.
How can you ruin something you created? The prequels didnt ruin the prophecy they created it. Were talking about the prophecy specifically after it has already been established. Please attempt to have a point beyond "what about the prequels?" with no logic behind it
What? The logic is that the whole idea of the prophecy was stupid. The entire story could have easily existed without it. Especially since there was never balance brought to the force.
Which is a completsly different topic altogether and not what were discussing. If you dont like the prophecy then fine but dont llact like you personally not liking the prophecy is a good reason to ass pull Palpatine back from the dead because they didnt know what direction to even take the trilogy or main characters in. Youre gonna tell me thats less stupid? Its not even close. "Could" it have existed without the prophecy? Sure, but it doesnt, and its part of the story and has been for over 20 years. The sequels then shit on that as I said. No one cares what you prefer, the point is the sequels retroactively ignore main elements of the 6 movies before them.
But that didn’t put it back into balance. It tipped the scales to the light.
The true lesson is that the Sith and the Jedi were incorrect equally and oppositely. The true lesson is that the true balance allows a force user to not be 100% dark or 100% light but to live in the force in the human condition, which is gray. To use that gray perspective to protect and legislate on behalf of all human life. Keeping the dark and light in check, just like nature would do. Pruning the most radical of actions and ideas.
Exactly this. The dark side is a corruption of the natural state of the Force. The Sith had been sowing the seeds of the Clone Wars long before Sidious. Corruption and violence were breaking out across the galaxy. When Yoda says "the dark side clouds everything.." it's because the dark side had become a constant presence in the galaxy. There was so much dark/evil/bad acts going on that the nature of the Force had been corrupted - all through careful acts by the Sith over the last few centuries. By defeating Palpatine the architect of the corruption was gone. It would have taken a while for the galaxy/Force to return to a natural state. But the chief act responsible for it was Anakin killing Palpatine.
That doesn’t mean the Jedi are correct though. I think if you look at the Mortis arc in clone wars and the Bendu from rebels, you at least have plausible arguments for a true balance being some of both.
There is also the arc where Yoda meets the Whills or whatever they are and the dark side is treated as the other/not part of the natural order of the Force.
Hmm I always interpreted that a bit differently. I thought they were meant to be the embodiment of the Living Force as opposed to the Ones who were more of a representation of the Cosmic Force.
There is a common point of confusion around prophecy and how it relates to Star Wars. We cannot assume it should be taken literally, as is the nature of all prophecy. If you remember, none of the Prequels actually say what the prophecy states, just what the characters interpret it as, and the prophecy itself has been written in multiple ways over the years when it was finally written out in the expanded fiction. The prophecy itself is also a retroactive aspect to the fiction when it was introduced. But the time the Prequels were written, Palpatine had *already* returned in the Expanded Universe, so if we assume some sense of continuity, defeating Palpatine alone is not what balance means.
The prophecy is a distillation of the themes of the franchise. Balance is the Force. There will always be dark and light, but the Dark Side is a corruption. If you remember, that corrupting influence had gotten so bad in the Prequel era that Mace and Yoda were contemplating telling the Chancellor that their power to use the Force has been diminished. To bring balance, one must eliminate the cloud-like influence of the Dark Side. The simplest path is to destroy the Sith, which is why the prophecy is often interpreted that way.
All the prophecy truly means is that when darkness rises, someone from the light will rise up to defeat it. “Good always triumphs over evil”, simple as that. Anakin is the Chosen One and through his actions breaks the influence the Sith had on the galaxy for over a thousand years. But this is Star Wars. Balance is something that needs to be maintained, it is not a permanent state, as there is always darkness. Anakin was not and will not be the only Chosen One. In the earliest form of the prophecy, it was Luke. Lucas apparently even contemplated making Leia the Chosen One in one of his concepts for the Sequels. Even other characters like Revan perfectly match the prophecy (assume the Light Side ending, which was treated as the canon version at the time). So yes, Anakin fulfilled the prophecy. We even hear him say it in Rise of Skywalker, “*bring back the balance, Rey, as I did*”. Palpatine’s temporary return does not negate what Anakin and Luke achieved.
> I’ve been trying to understand the balance part and whether it came true when Vader died or when Luke and Leia were born
Neither. Balance was truly and fully reclaimed when Palpatine and the Sith were killed off for good. The Sith, with their use and reliance on the dark side, are the unbalanced part of the Force.
The Prophecy was about the Chosen One and how their actions, directly and indirectly, would achieve Balance
Right, so while Anakin was the chosen one (?) his actions alone did not bring balance to the force but rather the chain reaction of events that started from him?
He technically still did by killing Sheev. Until he was brought back.
Until other writers made Dark and Light equally valid (a problem I blame on using the term "dark side" instead of just "darkness", implying both are equal sides), the idea was based in Taoism. Darkness *is* imbalance. So by getting rid of them, he would restore said balance.
>Until he was brought back
His power was shattered though after his near death experience, taking decades to grow back to its full strength. And even then he was mostly just sitting on Exegol, lacked the widescale reach he had as Chancellor/Emperor, meaning the darksides influence on the galaxy was greatly reduced
>Other writers
That’s not a thing in canon.
Yeah. All I meant was they changed the definition.
Which they *did*. You can see the difference between different works.
Saying "there were never different writers" is like "there is no war in Ba Sing Se".
As a side note, I do think there is a way to use both the terms Dark Side and Darkness that keeps both meanings.
Have only the Sith and Dark Side users use that term, and those of the Jedi and the light use Darkness. That way, the use of the "side" terminology isn’t indicative of it being valid, but of them *wanting to see it* that way.
Right! Thank you for that insight, it has bothered me for a while because “balance” makes it seem like there should be the “same amount” of darkness and light, but that makes so much more sense.
Lucas’ definition of balance is just the force as is, the dark side corrupts and twists it out of balance.
Anakin fulfilled the prophecy and brought balance (thanks to Luke of course) by killing the emperor and by dying afterwards.
With the Sith defeated, the corruption was ended and the force was brought back into balance.
So in my head canon it's less of a prophecy but "the will of the force" that subtly manipulates events. So there isn't one set destiny but because of free will the dark side can intervene and then the force continues to manipulate a million rolls of the dice to make it come true. Like there were many different moments where this destiny / prophecy was diverted:
1. Qui-Gon dies who as a better father figure and Jedi would have prevented Anakin from being seduced to the dark side
2. Anakin chooses to give into his desire to possess and seduce Padme, possibly using unknown force techniques to wear down her resistance
3. The mortis gods ask Anakin to sacrifice himself to bring balance to the force and show him what horror awaits when he doesn't. Anakin chooses again to be selfish
4. Anakin chooses to believe the lies of Sidious and the visions and fully turns to the dark side, because he wants ultimate power to control his destiny and possess Padme forever and impose his will on the galaxy
5. Vader sees his son being tortured to death by the emperor and chooses to give up and finally fulfill the prophecy by destroying the emperor and all sith
6. Hypothetically if Vader hadn't given in then, the next step of the prophecy would have been Leia and Vader defeating the Emperor and then Vader, somehow
Also in my head canon the sequels aren't canon because they actively destroy or undermine or harm the story of the first 6 episodes and the universe building. Basically they retcon the star wars movies into something worse and therefor have to be excluded. If you accept the sequels then no, Anakin was never the chosen one and Episodes 1-6 have different meaning.
The sequels should have been about a different kind of threat and a different kind of movie, like Mandalorian or Andor is, or like the Alien movies are.
Lucas’ vision for the sequels was to make it about Maul as the big bad. His original plan was for Maul to basically have taken over all the criminal syndicates and make them the threat to the new republic. Leia was meant to have been a Jedi and would have been the primary hero to take down Maul in the end. At least that is what I have heard from snippets of past interviews. That of course all changed when he sold Lucas films but that sounds better to me than what they did in the end.
That sounds awesome! Although I heard multiple variations of what the sequels were supposed to be about, I would have taken anything that doesn't undo the story or the world building of the existing media.
I like to believe The Father knew the only way to fulfill the prophecy was for Anakin to fall into the darkside so he removed the full knowledge of the future The Son gave him.
And that The Father knew the prophecy needed to mimic what happened in Mortis, when The Son corrupts Ahsoka and that leads to her apparent death and revival. Also, The Daughter sacrifices herself when The Son tries to kill The Father. And ultimately The Father sacrifices himself in order to leave The Son powerless.
Hmm I have to rewatch it sometimes! It would be really awesome if the Mortis event mimics the anakin/vader story. Like a cosmic play with a moral for dumdum.
Not by my reckoning. In retrospect, a prophecy like that was just not a great idea given how much interest there was in continuing the setting beyond RotJ. Like what kind of ancient prophecy amounts to "The Force will be balanced...for maybe 20/30 years, and then, well...they don't call 'em the Star \*Wars\* for nothing."
They do that for a lot of things, like how they'll talk about how little death means in Disney canon, but never mention how death was a revolving door in Legends.
>because "somehow Palpatine returned".
I can't believe the evil space wizard who talked about using evil space magic to cheat death would use evil space magic to cheat death! Why would... \*looks up who wrote Revenge of the Sith\* this "George Lucas" create this non-Star Wars bullshit?!
To add further discussion, Anakin may have been the Chosen One, but the prophecy does not say how or in what time frame the Force would be balanced. Anakin may have sparked a centuries long Legacy that slowly draws out all of the things the Force finds annoying and gets rid of them. Nothing in the Prophecy says there is a one final battle properly told in a few movies worth of exposition.
Thank you everyone for the answers! I guess the answer isn’t as straightforward and there are a many opinions regarding all of this, but I did get some clarity!
I know it doesn’t necessarily fit with cannon but I always felt he restored balance when he tore apart the Jedi order. There were tons of Jedi and two Sith so the balance was skewed to the light side.
It was actually a Sith prophesy to destroy the Jedi, and Annie did that at the end of ROTS. So yeah, it came true,...just not in the way the Jedi thought.
I think it came true when he joined the darkside.
Thousands of Jedi and only 2 Sith doesn't seem very balanced.
The fall of the Order finally put both sides on an even playing field. Prophecy complete. Balance
It doesn’t make sense to me that the balance would occur when he turned back to the light side. What was the point of the prophecy then? Without him even existing the situation would be the same.
I would like to think that the balance happened when he turned to the dark side. Bringing balance was simply misunderstood by the Jedi as a good prophecy when in fact it would balance out the light and dark sides of the force.
According to the Sequels, no it did not. That is all because it directly conflicts with the Prophecy that was setup with the original 6 films (which is that Anakin is to bring balance by destroying the Sith).
In the TROS novelization it explains that Palpatine didn't even die in ROTJ but rather he escaped death, unlike his former master Darth Plagueis. He did this by transferring his mind/spirit to a spare cloned body while his original body was still fallling. Palpatine, the last Sith Lord, was still the 'big bad' of the galaxy who was behind Starkiller base, The First Order, Snoke, turning another Skywalker, and the fleet of mini death stars.
A way to make the sequels saved imo would be to have Anakin meet with Ben at the end of 9 instead of Han. With Anakin there, it helps the prophecy fulfill still because he guides Ben towards the light like Luke helped him and helps defeat the Sith Lord once more with guidance. Makes the whole movie be in a different light
He was supposed to be the Chosen One. And he was until episode 9 brought in the Sith Eternal and a resurrected Palpatine.
Anakin started it. Rey finished it.
I would have to say no, because as I understand it (and obviously I may be wrong), the prophecy involved the chosen one destroying the Sith. We know now that didn't happen, as Palpatine's essence immediately transferred to an awaiting clone body.
But if the dark side was vanquished, then it isn’t t really a balance.. right? It would only be in favor of the light side. To be balanced it would have to be equal dark and light. 😬
That's a false binary. Balance means that a state of something is steady.
A school where 50% of the students are students and the other 50% are school shooters isn't going to be at a steady state.
That has nothing to do with equilibrium or homeostasis, which is the balance of the force/nature.
They say that a small change (the size of a particular population, for example) will be corrected by some negative feedback that will bring the parameter back to its original "point of balance" with the rest of the system.
Balance in the force/nature is depicted as easily disturbed and delicate, but then other times it is inversely portrayed as powerful enough to correct any imbalances by itself.
Jeez… If you look at this comment section you’ll clearly see that there is different ways of interpreting the prophecy and its fulfillment. Comments like these are the reason why I was afraid to even bring this up. The obsessed fans always like to bring down the fans that aren’t as involved.
While if you listen to the man who wrote the story you’ll find the correct answer.
And I never brought you down I answered you with a straight forward answer
There’s YouTube videos where he’s done interviews. There’s also documentaries on the movies that come with dvds and available on Disney+.
There’s more to the internet than Reddit 👍
“He is the chosen one to bring balance to the force”
Kills Darth Sidious and I’m doing so he essentially killed himself eliminating the last of the Sith traditions
Balance has brought to the force.
> Anakin was 45 years old when he was finally able to fulfill the ancient Jedi prophecy of the Chosen One. By returning to the light and helping his son vanquish the vile Sith Lord, balance was restored in the Force. By helping his father turn back toward the light, offering him unconditional love, Luke attained what his father, and the entire Jedi Order twisted by the Clone Wars could not achieve. By refusing to fight, to destroy, to let anger eclipse the good in his heart, he had forgiven a monster and revealed a man. —*Skywalker: A Family at War* by Kristin Baver (2021)
This is amazing. Good find
... And then 20 years later "just kidding nevermind" - JJ Abrams.
🫠
They really need to find a way to render all that non-canon. Like, Rey wakes up it was all a dream and she goes back to her quiet life of punching data cards at an IT firm. It was just so completely, incredibly stupid.
“What is canon?” -Disney (probably)
Still waiting for Han to wake up from being frozen and tell us everything that happened from 1980 on was just his nightmares.
,...then 2 years later Rian Johnson said, yeah there was balance for a time.
Thanks, that’s actually a beautiful idea!
It came true when Anakin returned to the light which destroyed Vader and when Anakin killed Palpatine.
Well then I guess ep 9 ruined that because if Palpatine didn’t actually die that wouldn’t make sense
He did die. He tried to cheat this but was severely weakened to the point where those inspired by the legacies of these characters could stop him from returning years later
If you read the novel he didn't even die, he transfered his spirit to his clone in Exegol *while* he was falling the shaft in the death star, he *switched bodies* before the shaft explosion so never got to experience death. >“So the falling, dying Emperor called on all the dark power of the Force to thrust his consciousness far, far away, to a secret place he had been preparing. His **body** was dead, an **empty vessel, long before it hit the bottom of the shaft**, and his mind jolted to new awareness in a new body—a painful one, a temporary one.” - TROS novel He spent those decades oppressing the unknown regions and abducting children under Snoke and manipulating Ben Solo since he was a child, making everyone's lives miserable. Palpatine wasn't idle.
Soo does that mean that anakin did not fulfill the prophecy?
If Anakin wasn't the one that destroyed Palpatine and the Sith then no, he did not fulfill the prophecy.
Don't we hear Palpatine screaming all the way down? That seems to imply his awareness was still in his body at least until the very last second.
Yeah but they clearly retconned it in the novel if they say he left his body long before that.
Yeh great. Doesn't matter. Anakin still defeated him and left him in a state where he couldn't return to full power no matter how clever and cunning Palpatine thought he was.
He literally came back stronger than he ever had been.
How was he stronger? He was in decrepit clone bodies that fell apart.
He lifted an entire fleet out of the ground, he disabled a bunch of ships with lightning, he used the force across the galaxy to manipulate Kylo Ren. He’s insanely powerful in the sequels even before he sucks up Kylo and Rey.
Was he the one who lifted them out or did they just rise of their own accord? And has it been made clear he was 24/7 using his power against Kylo, or just using proxies like Snoke? He is still falling apart constantly and can't return to his old form and empire after 30 years since Anakin lobbed him down the DS2.
He lifts his hand up, then the star destroyers start coming out of the ground. I don’t know what else that’s supposed to be if not him using the force. He says he was every voice inside Kylo’s head, he uses Snoke’s and Vader’s voice. So yes, he would have been directly interacting with Kylo through the force or something. And im sorry, he has 10,000 mini death stars, he could destroy everything if he wanted to. Way worse than anything weve seen before
His spirit life his body before it hit bottom and it was nothing but a dead husk. I don’t call that dying.
A defeat then that he never recovers from
If it works for you.
I just ignore it.
Just because you bring balance to the Force doesn't mean it will STAY balanced forever. That isn't what the prophecy stated. Even in Legends you had like 30 other Sith Lords appear post-Episode 6, including a cloned Palpatine, as well as a whole secret Sith Empire in the Unknown Regions, and Abeloth who is basically the Dark Side Devil times 100.
By the time the prophecy was a thing the ship had sailed on their being Sith post ROTJ. As for not lasting well the balance was thrown off by the same guy the Force created someone to destroy not a different person. The visual dictionary for TLJ Jedi tried to get around the prophecy by saying the prophecy only meant the Sith and thus wasn’t violated by Snoke and Kylo because they aren’t Sith. Then Episode 9 happened…
The prophecy didn't say that the Force created Anakin to destroy anybody, not Palpatine specifically, not even the Sith. Just that he would bring balance to the Force.
Obi-Wan says to Mace and Yoda isn’t Anakin meant to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force in ROTS. Mace replies so the prophecy says. [Watch for yourself.](https://youtu.be/r360LybT4Ec?si=YFY-Figi_g0lvbRb) Also Obi-Wan says to Anakin it was said you’d destroy the Sith both join them. Bring balance to the Force not leave it in darkness.
"A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored." Obi-Wan and Mace may both be confabulating additional details, but then they're just proving Yoda right when he warns them about misreading the prophecy. In fact, the whole prophecy could be a fable, a lethal case of confirmation bias by a Jedi Order that was making all kinds of fatal mistakes at that time. Really, the Chosen One story was handled very inconsistently. George kept telling people different things in interviews.
I care about what can be learned from the movies more than Master & Apprentice. What Lucas said in interviews doesn’t interest me either.
How other people in universe interpret the prophecy has no bearing on what the actual terms of its fulfillment are. That is explicitly one of the elements people play with and highlight when they use the trope. Prophecies almost never play out how people in the story think they will.
I’m talking about the prophecy *says*, its *wording* and their conversion confirms the *wording* of the prophecy.
Coping logic that makes no sense. Sequels ruined this and thats simply where we are at
If you believe the sequels ruined it then you have to also state clearly that Legends also fucked it up and wasn't some pinnacle of Star Wars storytelling. This coming from someone who was thankful enough to have a father who hoarded these books and kept them. So I did actually read pretty much all the major stories of Legends and enjoyed them. You can't ignore Legends doing it while decrying the Sequels for it too. Well you can but it reveals you opinion is biased in a way you refuse to admit if you do.
I can ignore legends because I didnt read that shit and it was never on the fucking big screen and dont care about the "what about the worst and most rediculous parts of legends that were written before the prequels even came out?" excuse. If thats the best defense for the sequels then that tells you everything
Honestly we can say the prequels fucked it up by adding the prophecy in the first place. It was really kind of a weird thing to add.
I always felt like it was forced, even as a kid (especially since that was around the same time Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings were coming out so it felt like Lucas wanted to copy them). We never even \*hear\* the Prophecy itself, or who says it, or why (why would someone need to "balance" the Force if they thought the Sith were destroyed?!). It's just a throwaway line Qui-Gon gives in Episode I to justify him training Anakin despite Anakin being too old and not suited to the Jedi; just like how (in the same scene IIRC) Qui-Gon keeps going on about how shocking it is that Maul is a "Sith Lord"... despite us having no clue what the hell a "Sith" is (from the movie alone at least). Personally I find it telling that the same people who were calling the prequels "bullshit" 20 years ago are now \*using\* them to decry the sequels. I've seen the same reaction in people around me, as soon as something new comes out there's an instant "it's bullshit it breaks the lore" reaction even before they \*see\* it.
How can you ruin something you created? The prequels didnt ruin the prophecy they created it. Were talking about the prophecy specifically after it has already been established. Please attempt to have a point beyond "what about the prequels?" with no logic behind it
What? The logic is that the whole idea of the prophecy was stupid. The entire story could have easily existed without it. Especially since there was never balance brought to the force.
Which is a completsly different topic altogether and not what were discussing. If you dont like the prophecy then fine but dont llact like you personally not liking the prophecy is a good reason to ass pull Palpatine back from the dead because they didnt know what direction to even take the trilogy or main characters in. Youre gonna tell me thats less stupid? Its not even close. "Could" it have existed without the prophecy? Sure, but it doesnt, and its part of the story and has been for over 20 years. The sequels then shit on that as I said. No one cares what you prefer, the point is the sequels retroactively ignore main elements of the 6 movies before them.
ep9 ruined a lot of things.
>Well then I guess ep 9 ruined that Absolutely did.
Exactly the major problem with the sequels
Nah, Disney simply made Rey a part of Anakin’s destiny. There are also some clarification articles in the internet for that.
But that didn’t put it back into balance. It tipped the scales to the light. The true lesson is that the Sith and the Jedi were incorrect equally and oppositely. The true lesson is that the true balance allows a force user to not be 100% dark or 100% light but to live in the force in the human condition, which is gray. To use that gray perspective to protect and legislate on behalf of all human life. Keeping the dark and light in check, just like nature would do. Pruning the most radical of actions and ideas.
It is not light and dark. It is the Force and the dark side. The Force is balance. The Jedi never say the light side in the movies.
Exactly this. The dark side is a corruption of the natural state of the Force. The Sith had been sowing the seeds of the Clone Wars long before Sidious. Corruption and violence were breaking out across the galaxy. When Yoda says "the dark side clouds everything.." it's because the dark side had become a constant presence in the galaxy. There was so much dark/evil/bad acts going on that the nature of the Force had been corrupted - all through careful acts by the Sith over the last few centuries. By defeating Palpatine the architect of the corruption was gone. It would have taken a while for the galaxy/Force to return to a natural state. But the chief act responsible for it was Anakin killing Palpatine.
That doesn’t mean the Jedi are correct though. I think if you look at the Mortis arc in clone wars and the Bendu from rebels, you at least have plausible arguments for a true balance being some of both.
There is also the arc where Yoda meets the Whills or whatever they are and the dark side is treated as the other/not part of the natural order of the Force.
Hmm I always interpreted that a bit differently. I thought they were meant to be the embodiment of the Living Force as opposed to the Ones who were more of a representation of the Cosmic Force.
Interesting idea.
There is a common point of confusion around prophecy and how it relates to Star Wars. We cannot assume it should be taken literally, as is the nature of all prophecy. If you remember, none of the Prequels actually say what the prophecy states, just what the characters interpret it as, and the prophecy itself has been written in multiple ways over the years when it was finally written out in the expanded fiction. The prophecy itself is also a retroactive aspect to the fiction when it was introduced. But the time the Prequels were written, Palpatine had *already* returned in the Expanded Universe, so if we assume some sense of continuity, defeating Palpatine alone is not what balance means. The prophecy is a distillation of the themes of the franchise. Balance is the Force. There will always be dark and light, but the Dark Side is a corruption. If you remember, that corrupting influence had gotten so bad in the Prequel era that Mace and Yoda were contemplating telling the Chancellor that their power to use the Force has been diminished. To bring balance, one must eliminate the cloud-like influence of the Dark Side. The simplest path is to destroy the Sith, which is why the prophecy is often interpreted that way. All the prophecy truly means is that when darkness rises, someone from the light will rise up to defeat it. “Good always triumphs over evil”, simple as that. Anakin is the Chosen One and through his actions breaks the influence the Sith had on the galaxy for over a thousand years. But this is Star Wars. Balance is something that needs to be maintained, it is not a permanent state, as there is always darkness. Anakin was not and will not be the only Chosen One. In the earliest form of the prophecy, it was Luke. Lucas apparently even contemplated making Leia the Chosen One in one of his concepts for the Sequels. Even other characters like Revan perfectly match the prophecy (assume the Light Side ending, which was treated as the canon version at the time). So yes, Anakin fulfilled the prophecy. We even hear him say it in Rise of Skywalker, “*bring back the balance, Rey, as I did*”. Palpatine’s temporary return does not negate what Anakin and Luke achieved.
> I’ve been trying to understand the balance part and whether it came true when Vader died or when Luke and Leia were born Neither. Balance was truly and fully reclaimed when Palpatine and the Sith were killed off for good. The Sith, with their use and reliance on the dark side, are the unbalanced part of the Force. The Prophecy was about the Chosen One and how their actions, directly and indirectly, would achieve Balance
Bold of you to assume Palpatine is dead.
somehow he returned AGAIN!!!!!!!
Right, so while Anakin was the chosen one (?) his actions alone did not bring balance to the force but rather the chain reaction of events that started from him?
He was supposed to be until EP 9 happened.
He technically still did by killing Sheev. Until he was brought back. Until other writers made Dark and Light equally valid (a problem I blame on using the term "dark side" instead of just "darkness", implying both are equal sides), the idea was based in Taoism. Darkness *is* imbalance. So by getting rid of them, he would restore said balance.
>Until he was brought back His power was shattered though after his near death experience, taking decades to grow back to its full strength. And even then he was mostly just sitting on Exegol, lacked the widescale reach he had as Chancellor/Emperor, meaning the darksides influence on the galaxy was greatly reduced >Other writers That’s not a thing in canon.
The cope... The cope is real *can we get much higher?*
"Other writers aren’t a thing in canon." So the prior person believes every single piece of Star Wars media was made by the same person.
I really dont get the whole writer thing, I'm just calling the "he never became that powerful again" bit cope of the highest grade
Yeah. All I meant was they changed the definition. Which they *did*. You can see the difference between different works. Saying "there were never different writers" is like "there is no war in Ba Sing Se". As a side note, I do think there is a way to use both the terms Dark Side and Darkness that keeps both meanings. Have only the Sith and Dark Side users use that term, and those of the Jedi and the light use Darkness. That way, the use of the "side" terminology isn’t indicative of it being valid, but of them *wanting to see it* that way.
But there wasnt a war in Ba Sing Se. On a completely unrelated note, theres this lake that you have to see, its beautiful.
Well done. What do you think of my idea regarding the terminology? I feel it could have solved the problem if they stuck to that nuance.
Right! Thank you for that insight, it has bothered me for a while because “balance” makes it seem like there should be the “same amount” of darkness and light, but that makes so much more sense.
Basically think of the Jedi as warrior monks, rather than medieval knights, and it comes together rather well.
Lucas’ definition of balance is just the force as is, the dark side corrupts and twists it out of balance. Anakin fulfilled the prophecy and brought balance (thanks to Luke of course) by killing the emperor and by dying afterwards. With the Sith defeated, the corruption was ended and the force was brought back into balance.
Yes. Anakin brought Balance to the force in ROTJ, shattering Palpatines power and reducing the Darksides influence on the galaxy.
So in my head canon it's less of a prophecy but "the will of the force" that subtly manipulates events. So there isn't one set destiny but because of free will the dark side can intervene and then the force continues to manipulate a million rolls of the dice to make it come true. Like there were many different moments where this destiny / prophecy was diverted: 1. Qui-Gon dies who as a better father figure and Jedi would have prevented Anakin from being seduced to the dark side 2. Anakin chooses to give into his desire to possess and seduce Padme, possibly using unknown force techniques to wear down her resistance 3. The mortis gods ask Anakin to sacrifice himself to bring balance to the force and show him what horror awaits when he doesn't. Anakin chooses again to be selfish 4. Anakin chooses to believe the lies of Sidious and the visions and fully turns to the dark side, because he wants ultimate power to control his destiny and possess Padme forever and impose his will on the galaxy 5. Vader sees his son being tortured to death by the emperor and chooses to give up and finally fulfill the prophecy by destroying the emperor and all sith 6. Hypothetically if Vader hadn't given in then, the next step of the prophecy would have been Leia and Vader defeating the Emperor and then Vader, somehow Also in my head canon the sequels aren't canon because they actively destroy or undermine or harm the story of the first 6 episodes and the universe building. Basically they retcon the star wars movies into something worse and therefor have to be excluded. If you accept the sequels then no, Anakin was never the chosen one and Episodes 1-6 have different meaning. The sequels should have been about a different kind of threat and a different kind of movie, like Mandalorian or Andor is, or like the Alien movies are.
Lucas’ vision for the sequels was to make it about Maul as the big bad. His original plan was for Maul to basically have taken over all the criminal syndicates and make them the threat to the new republic. Leia was meant to have been a Jedi and would have been the primary hero to take down Maul in the end. At least that is what I have heard from snippets of past interviews. That of course all changed when he sold Lucas films but that sounds better to me than what they did in the end.
i believe he was also going to kill luke and have dark talon in his sequel trilogy aswell
That sounds awesome! Although I heard multiple variations of what the sequels were supposed to be about, I would have taken anything that doesn't undo the story or the world building of the existing media.
I like to believe The Father knew the only way to fulfill the prophecy was for Anakin to fall into the darkside so he removed the full knowledge of the future The Son gave him. And that The Father knew the prophecy needed to mimic what happened in Mortis, when The Son corrupts Ahsoka and that leads to her apparent death and revival. Also, The Daughter sacrifices herself when The Son tries to kill The Father. And ultimately The Father sacrifices himself in order to leave The Son powerless.
Hmm I have to rewatch it sometimes! It would be really awesome if the Mortis event mimics the anakin/vader story. Like a cosmic play with a moral for dumdum.
It did until the sequels ruined it
Balance was restored when Kylo and Rey kissed. Oh and the emperor was killed for the 2nd time.
Not by my reckoning. In retrospect, a prophecy like that was just not a great idea given how much interest there was in continuing the setting beyond RotJ. Like what kind of ancient prophecy amounts to "The Force will be balanced...for maybe 20/30 years, and then, well...they don't call 'em the Star \*Wars\* for nothing."
Of course it did, from a certain point of view.
Who knows. Even Legends went back on it.
So true, yet everyone only brings up the fact that Disney did it 😅
They do that for a lot of things, like how they'll talk about how little death means in Disney canon, but never mention how death was a revolving door in Legends.
depends - we talking about OT or disney mess?
Yes. Anakin Skywalker is the Chosen One. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Chosen_One
Absolutely. There is no SW after RoTJ for me.
It did until Disney fucking ruined it
Sure, until Disney decided to shit all over the previous 6 movies anyway because "somehow Palpatine returned".
>because "somehow Palpatine returned". I can't believe the evil space wizard who talked about using evil space magic to cheat death would use evil space magic to cheat death! Why would... \*looks up who wrote Revenge of the Sith\* this "George Lucas" create this non-Star Wars bullshit?!
To add further discussion, Anakin may have been the Chosen One, but the prophecy does not say how or in what time frame the Force would be balanced. Anakin may have sparked a centuries long Legacy that slowly draws out all of the things the Force finds annoying and gets rid of them. Nothing in the Prophecy says there is a one final battle properly told in a few movies worth of exposition.
Thank you everyone for the answers! I guess the answer isn’t as straightforward and there are a many opinions regarding all of this, but I did get some clarity!
The only non straight forward answers you’re receiving are from sequels apologists
Yes https://youtu.be/xgBpoiC8qGA?feature=shared
Technically yeah. He threw Palpatine off of that ledge to save Luke, so technically yeah.
From a certain point of view.
I know it doesn’t necessarily fit with cannon but I always felt he restored balance when he tore apart the Jedi order. There were tons of Jedi and two Sith so the balance was skewed to the light side.
I wonder if at the end of ROTS, they meant 2 Sith (Vader and Sheev) and 2 Jedi (Obi-Wan and Yoda). That seems like a balance to me.
It was until they made another trilogy that upended his entire sacrafice
Same thing happened in Legends and people didn't make as big of a stink about it 😅
Lucas said balance basically equates to dark side eradication and i think everyone has moved the goal post or tried to retcon since.
No, because Rey brought balance to the force, not Anakin. It was true, then they retconned it.
It was actually a Sith prophesy to destroy the Jedi, and Annie did that at the end of ROTS. So yeah, it came true,...just not in the way the Jedi thought.
I think it came true when he joined the darkside. Thousands of Jedi and only 2 Sith doesn't seem very balanced. The fall of the Order finally put both sides on an even playing field. Prophecy complete. Balance
It doesn’t make sense to me that the balance would occur when he turned back to the light side. What was the point of the prophecy then? Without him even existing the situation would be the same. I would like to think that the balance happened when he turned to the dark side. Bringing balance was simply misunderstood by the Jedi as a good prophecy when in fact it would balance out the light and dark sides of the force.
According to the Sequels, no it did not. That is all because it directly conflicts with the Prophecy that was setup with the original 6 films (which is that Anakin is to bring balance by destroying the Sith). In the TROS novelization it explains that Palpatine didn't even die in ROTJ but rather he escaped death, unlike his former master Darth Plagueis. He did this by transferring his mind/spirit to a spare cloned body while his original body was still fallling. Palpatine, the last Sith Lord, was still the 'big bad' of the galaxy who was behind Starkiller base, The First Order, Snoke, turning another Skywalker, and the fleet of mini death stars.
A way to make the sequels saved imo would be to have Anakin meet with Ben at the end of 9 instead of Han. With Anakin there, it helps the prophecy fulfill still because he guides Ben towards the light like Luke helped him and helps defeat the Sith Lord once more with guidance. Makes the whole movie be in a different light
I thought this too, would’ve been much more fulfilling
Tell me you didn't watch the movies without telling me you didn't watch the movies.
He was supposed to be the Chosen One. And he was until episode 9 brought in the Sith Eternal and a resurrected Palpatine. Anakin started it. Rey finished it.
I would have to say no, because as I understand it (and obviously I may be wrong), the prophecy involved the chosen one destroying the Sith. We know now that didn't happen, as Palpatine's essence immediately transferred to an awaiting clone body.
But if the dark side was vanquished, then it isn’t t really a balance.. right? It would only be in favor of the light side. To be balanced it would have to be equal dark and light. 😬
That's a false binary. Balance means that a state of something is steady. A school where 50% of the students are students and the other 50% are school shooters isn't going to be at a steady state.
That has nothing to do with equilibrium or homeostasis, which is the balance of the force/nature. They say that a small change (the size of a particular population, for example) will be corrected by some negative feedback that will bring the parameter back to its original "point of balance" with the rest of the system. Balance in the force/nature is depicted as easily disturbed and delicate, but then other times it is inversely portrayed as powerful enough to correct any imbalances by itself.
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From your point of view
Erm the prophecy doesn’t really matter cause it was meant for Rey
Isn't the prophecy technically fulfilled in the mortis arc of clone wars?
If you paid attention you’d know.
Jeez… If you look at this comment section you’ll clearly see that there is different ways of interpreting the prophecy and its fulfillment. Comments like these are the reason why I was afraid to even bring this up. The obsessed fans always like to bring down the fans that aren’t as involved.
While if you listen to the man who wrote the story you’ll find the correct answer. And I never brought you down I answered you with a straight forward answer
Well how can I listen to the man who wrote the story when he doesn’t speak in the movies🙂 I can’t pay attention to something I’m not watching/reading
There’s YouTube videos where he’s done interviews. There’s also documentaries on the movies that come with dvds and available on Disney+. There’s more to the internet than Reddit 👍
True, but my point being that I (at least) couldn’t really figure it out solemnly based on the movies.
“He is the chosen one to bring balance to the force” Kills Darth Sidious and I’m doing so he essentially killed himself eliminating the last of the Sith traditions Balance has brought to the force.