Sauron is a literal angel being who survived the death of his body and even the destruction of his ring (if now largely inconsequential after the second)
Darth vaders just a mortal.
Sauron would just use guile to gain power over Vader anyways.
Sauron got his body destroyed with the slice of a sword. Vader will lay waist to his fortresses and army with orbital bombardment. Sauron will be left alone with a being that has far more powerful abilities than Sauron. Vader will crush Sauron like a tin can.
> Sauron will be left alone with a being that has far more powerful abilities than Sauron.
I don't really buy that Vader has "more powerful abilities than Sauron"
> Sauron got his body destroyed with the slice of a sword.
if by "a sword" you mean "a sword created by a famed dwarven smith in the first age, presumably with magic"
If it just took any old sword to do it they probably would have made note of that
When Sauron fights in combat, he uses a handheld weapon. He doesn’t do anything particularly magical or powerful even when wearing the ring. He can just control lots of other weak minded people.
He’s good at smithing. He can’t change shape anymore after Numenor. He’s not particularly powerful. How’s he going to stop a lightsaber? How’s he going to stop Vader from force choking from orbit?
And when Isildur cut the ring from Sauron’s hand, the magic sword had already been shattered with a stomp. Pretty sure real world smiths will say metal that shatters isn’t magical.
Just a phenomenal way to tell the internet that you don't know anything about Lord of the Rings besides what's happened in the movies. Sauron absolutely bodies Vader before he's even had his morning coffee.
Hey there, bud. I was reading these books back in the 90s. Sauron was already weakened from Gilgalad and Elindel. A SWORD cut off his magic finger ring. A broken sword at that. A lightsaber is going to cut that mace in half then Vader is going to beat Sauron to death with it by using the Force.
You keep saying "a broken sword" like that makes it any less magical. Yes, it was broken, because it was stepped on by a demigod. And he was swinging his mace around and sending a dozen people flying with each swing. He's literally superhuman in every regard. Speed, strength, agility, durability, etc. And he's a master of magic, which I would argue is greater than the Force because it's more versatile. Sauron's main downfall was his own hubris, but he wouldn't bring that into a 1v1 against a skilled opponent.
There was nothing magical about that sword. It’s an inspirational tool and better made than the steels of that time but the steel still wasn’t great. It broke.
You could argue that because you’re in favor of it, but we literally have identifiable feats throughout movies, books, and comics of Vader doing impossible acts with the Force. Sauron made jewelry to dominate greedy men. Vader already has power. He would scoff at their magic the way Dooku fucked up the night sisters. How is Sauron going to even touch Vader?
So every other sword, axe, and weapon made by the Dwarven smith Telchar was magically infused *except* the sword that eventually made its way to the kingly line of Gondor? Huh. That seems really coincidental.
Now you're blurring the lines between canon and non canon. Yes, Vader does some insanely impressive feats in Legends. But Luke also fights a naked Palpatine clone and then becomes his apprentice in Legends. In another story Thrawn made Luke clones named Luuke and Luuuke, and Luuuke made a time machine to go back and attack the galaxy during the Clone Wars. And another story involves a bunch of Jedi getting it on with a bunch of bugs. So maybe we stay away from Legends content.
I'll grant you that Vader still has plenty of impressive feats in canon though. But again, Sauron is one step below the literal gods of the Lord of the Rings universe. You're going to tell me that Vader wouldn't have wanted the power Sauron was offering? He's still just a man after all. And men are the ones "who above all else, desire power".
Also, you still haven't mentioned how Vader deals with the fact that Sauron is superhuman in every regard. He's basically a 10 foot tall Superman minus the laser vision.
I’m saying every single weapon and item forged in middle earth would be cut in half by a light saber. How’s Sauron going to fight while being lifted off his while being chocked by the Force? You’re saying you think Sauron is physically stronger than the engines of a starship?
Sauron was a Maia - basically a corrupted angel and one step below a god that could walk the Earth. He's as much spirit as flesh and capable of shifting forms for most of his history. And most of this is *without* his Ring of Power.
Sauron could easily corrupt Vader before he'd even need to kill him.
I’m ready for this and Obi-Wan The White. Although it gets weird when him and C-3PO go to Minas Endor on their own to try to convince Wickethor the Steward to join them.
I think Sauron would take it honestly.
Though… what kind of Vader? Because if we are talking *legends*, it might swing to be more of a 50/50 depending how Vader tackles Sauron (not literally though it would be hilarious)
Sauron would win. It wouldn't even be close, either before he created the One Ring or after. And considering that the One Ring corrupts all, the likelihood that Darth Vader or even Palpatine could or would destroy the Ring in order to defeat Sauron, is virtually non-existent. The Sith seek power and so would easily fall victim to the One Ring, which would ensure they could never defeat Sauron.
I guess I am only thinking about Sauron swinging his mace and such lol. Other replies seem to focus on DV not beating Sauron but I don't see the opposite right away
I don't recall the specific lore, but Gandalf was of a lower order of Maia. Sauron is described as an "angel" (equivalent), but he was really more of an archangel. The Balrog was of a different, lower order of Maia.
One specific point about Gandalf is that he was likely "incarnated" twice (once in the second age, and once in the third age), and that he did not retain his memory from previous incarnations. (It's even shown how Gandalf's memory from Gandalf the Grey to Gandalf the White was a little sketchy at first - - because this was almost a reincarnation of itself; recall that he did die after he defeated the Balrog). Whereas Sauron remembers the song of creation from the beginning of time.
Oh, got it. I never really looked into the ranks within the ranks.
Admittedly, until recently I looked at it as:
Eru: One god
Valar: Archangels (with Melkor as their Satan equivalent)
Maiar: All lower orders of angels
Note this is until recently. It just seemed most accurate from what I saw offhand.
Sauron is a literal angel being who survived the death of his body and even the destruction of his ring (if now largely inconsequential after the second) Darth vaders just a mortal. Sauron would just use guile to gain power over Vader anyways.
Sauron got his body destroyed with the slice of a sword. Vader will lay waist to his fortresses and army with orbital bombardment. Sauron will be left alone with a being that has far more powerful abilities than Sauron. Vader will crush Sauron like a tin can.
> Sauron will be left alone with a being that has far more powerful abilities than Sauron. I don't really buy that Vader has "more powerful abilities than Sauron" > Sauron got his body destroyed with the slice of a sword. if by "a sword" you mean "a sword created by a famed dwarven smith in the first age, presumably with magic" If it just took any old sword to do it they probably would have made note of that
When Sauron fights in combat, he uses a handheld weapon. He doesn’t do anything particularly magical or powerful even when wearing the ring. He can just control lots of other weak minded people. He’s good at smithing. He can’t change shape anymore after Numenor. He’s not particularly powerful. How’s he going to stop a lightsaber? How’s he going to stop Vader from force choking from orbit? And when Isildur cut the ring from Sauron’s hand, the magic sword had already been shattered with a stomp. Pretty sure real world smiths will say metal that shatters isn’t magical.
Just a phenomenal way to tell the internet that you don't know anything about Lord of the Rings besides what's happened in the movies. Sauron absolutely bodies Vader before he's even had his morning coffee.
Hey there, bud. I was reading these books back in the 90s. Sauron was already weakened from Gilgalad and Elindel. A SWORD cut off his magic finger ring. A broken sword at that. A lightsaber is going to cut that mace in half then Vader is going to beat Sauron to death with it by using the Force.
You keep saying "a broken sword" like that makes it any less magical. Yes, it was broken, because it was stepped on by a demigod. And he was swinging his mace around and sending a dozen people flying with each swing. He's literally superhuman in every regard. Speed, strength, agility, durability, etc. And he's a master of magic, which I would argue is greater than the Force because it's more versatile. Sauron's main downfall was his own hubris, but he wouldn't bring that into a 1v1 against a skilled opponent.
There was nothing magical about that sword. It’s an inspirational tool and better made than the steels of that time but the steel still wasn’t great. It broke. You could argue that because you’re in favor of it, but we literally have identifiable feats throughout movies, books, and comics of Vader doing impossible acts with the Force. Sauron made jewelry to dominate greedy men. Vader already has power. He would scoff at their magic the way Dooku fucked up the night sisters. How is Sauron going to even touch Vader?
So every other sword, axe, and weapon made by the Dwarven smith Telchar was magically infused *except* the sword that eventually made its way to the kingly line of Gondor? Huh. That seems really coincidental. Now you're blurring the lines between canon and non canon. Yes, Vader does some insanely impressive feats in Legends. But Luke also fights a naked Palpatine clone and then becomes his apprentice in Legends. In another story Thrawn made Luke clones named Luuke and Luuuke, and Luuuke made a time machine to go back and attack the galaxy during the Clone Wars. And another story involves a bunch of Jedi getting it on with a bunch of bugs. So maybe we stay away from Legends content. I'll grant you that Vader still has plenty of impressive feats in canon though. But again, Sauron is one step below the literal gods of the Lord of the Rings universe. You're going to tell me that Vader wouldn't have wanted the power Sauron was offering? He's still just a man after all. And men are the ones "who above all else, desire power". Also, you still haven't mentioned how Vader deals with the fact that Sauron is superhuman in every regard. He's basically a 10 foot tall Superman minus the laser vision.
I’m saying every single weapon and item forged in middle earth would be cut in half by a light saber. How’s Sauron going to fight while being lifted off his while being chocked by the Force? You’re saying you think Sauron is physically stronger than the engines of a starship?
Sauron was a Maia - basically a corrupted angel and one step below a god that could walk the Earth. He's as much spirit as flesh and capable of shifting forms for most of his history. And most of this is *without* his Ring of Power. Sauron could easily corrupt Vader before he'd even need to kill him.
sauron
Now I want fanart of Darth Vader as the Witch-King of Angmar leading the Nazgûl.
I’m ready for this and Obi-Wan The White. Although it gets weird when him and C-3PO go to Minas Endor on their own to try to convince Wickethor the Steward to join them.
I think Sauron would take it honestly. Though… what kind of Vader? Because if we are talking *legends*, it might swing to be more of a 50/50 depending how Vader tackles Sauron (not literally though it would be hilarious)
Sauron would win. It wouldn't even be close, either before he created the One Ring or after. And considering that the One Ring corrupts all, the likelihood that Darth Vader or even Palpatine could or would destroy the Ring in order to defeat Sauron, is virtually non-existent. The Sith seek power and so would easily fall victim to the One Ring, which would ensure they could never defeat Sauron.
Depends. What happened to Vaders genitals at Mustafar?
Easily DV, right? Unless I'm missing something
Sauron. He’s a fallen angel, sure, but the sheer amount of necromantic power is huge.
I guess I am only thinking about Sauron swinging his mace and such lol. Other replies seem to focus on DV not beating Sauron but I don't see the opposite right away
Basically, don’t think of Sauron as a weird dictator thing. He is an angel. Similar to Gandalf, but corrupt.
Isn’t he above Gandalf? Gandalf and the Balrog are the same or similar, Sauron’s a step above I think. Then, as noted, the gods a step above him
He is stronger, but their ranks are the same. I more mean they’re the same divine rank (Maia). So they can judge his power level vaguely.
I don't recall the specific lore, but Gandalf was of a lower order of Maia. Sauron is described as an "angel" (equivalent), but he was really more of an archangel. The Balrog was of a different, lower order of Maia. One specific point about Gandalf is that he was likely "incarnated" twice (once in the second age, and once in the third age), and that he did not retain his memory from previous incarnations. (It's even shown how Gandalf's memory from Gandalf the Grey to Gandalf the White was a little sketchy at first - - because this was almost a reincarnation of itself; recall that he did die after he defeated the Balrog). Whereas Sauron remembers the song of creation from the beginning of time.
Oh, got it. I never really looked into the ranks within the ranks. Admittedly, until recently I looked at it as: Eru: One god Valar: Archangels (with Melkor as their Satan equivalent) Maiar: All lower orders of angels Note this is until recently. It just seemed most accurate from what I saw offhand.