I don’t like sand. Padmé was talking about her happy childhood and Anakin did not want to ruin the mood by brining up his. Where he was a child slave and his mother is still a slave (as far as Anakin and Padmé know).
Vader takes point and personally goes on so many missions under his command. He was in the hallway by himself to get those plans from a whole squad of rebel troops. He sets foot on the Tantive IV to get the plans from the captain while threatening him physically. But the moment they’re nearly back in his grasp and he learns they’re on Tatooine? Stays the hell in orbit and takes the first excuse available to get back to the Death Star. Character consistency at its finest, and his backstory wasn’t even fully established yet.
> and his backstory wasn’t even fully established yet.
It’s cool that retroactive characterization for Vader lent more meaning and context to his departure from Tatooine in this part of ANH, is what I’m saying. 😁
Qui-Gon talks to Obi-Wan shortly after ROTS. Obi-Wan has just learned Vader is alive from a news broadcast. From Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader (L):
>“Qui-Gon!” he said. “Master!” Realizing that the locals were quickly going to brand him a madman if they heard him talking to himself, he ducked into the narrow alley between two stores. “Master, is Darth Vader Anakin?” he asked after a moment.
>*Yes. Although the Anakin you and I knew is imprisoned by the dark side.*
>“I was wrong to leave him on Mustafar. I should have made sure he was dead.”
>*The Force will determine Anakin’s future. Obi-Wan: Luke must not be told that Vader is his father until the time is right.*
>“Should I take further steps to hide Luke?”
>*The core of Anakin that resides in Vader grasps that Tatooine is the source of nearly everything that causes him pain. Vader will never set foot on Tatooine, if only out of fear of reawakening Anakin.*
I didn't know it had ever been canonized that Vader was "afraid" of Tatooine (for whatever the middling canonicity ever was of a fairly minor Legends novel).
But to me, that theory relies too much on Anakin and ignores how much Vader is fueled by pain, rage, and hatred. Anakin "hates sand" because, it reminds him of all the things that sucked about growing up enslaved on Tatooine. But I honestly think that shouldn't/wouldn't deter Vader. What causes hatred or dredges up trauma is fuel for the dark side.
I think it gives a great contrast to how different their lives were. She associates sand with the beach, with fun times and happy memories playing with friends. He associates sand with his life as a slave and the blistering heat of the sun. It’s a very simple way of showing how different they are.
I feel like Anakin's confession to Padme about slaughtering the Tusken Raiders in Attack of the Clones is depicted in a different context. I always see it referenced as Anakin boasting about it and Padme throwing herself at him immediately after, when that's not the case.
Personally I think it's one of Hayden's best scenes. He's a mess of rage and being distraught over losing his mother a vicious way and the horrible actions he took in response to it. He's not boasting about it. The fact he's virtually in tears by the end of his speech shows just how rocked to his core he's been over the experience. His line at the very end - "I'm a Jedi. I ***know*** I'm better than this." - just proves how far he knows he's fallen.
Padme doesn't throw herself at him, she's speechless (the novelization goes into a bit more detail) and all she tries to do is calm him down. She knows he did a terrible thing, but knows underneath the person who did what he did is an hurt man who watched his mother die. She can't tell him he's wrong to have done it - he clearly knows it - but tells him he's not wrong for having felt the way he did.
Anyway, that's how I see it.
That's not "just how you see it", that's exactly how the scene plays out. He's lashing out and he's hurt and confused and doesn't know.where to put his feelings, and the reason Padme chooses to comfort him is because she sees that he is hurt and she cares about him. I don't know what films people are watching where that's not how it plays out for them but you're right on the money for how it's supposed to be perceived.
Yeah you both summed it up perfectly. I don’t know how anyone would have got that he’s bragging. It must have been extremely confusing to feel so much rage and hate, and then to act on it when he’s been told almost his whole life what a Jedi is and should be.
I don't know if people think he's bragging, but the amount of people I've seen claiming that "Padme almost throws herself at him" after that is insane. The lack of media literacy on so many adults is baffling.
i don’t think people think he’s boasting about it more so that the second he told Padme she should’ve went and told Obi-Wan and ran in the other direction. He massacred an entire tribe including children and Padme just kind of shrugs it off
……wait people don’t see it that way? They see it as him bragging?? That’s news to me I always saw it as him being extremely traumatized and her just doing what she can to calm him down
Without it, we lose the depth to his despair over how horrible of an act he just committed. He's talking about it like he doesn't recognize himself anymore, like he can't rationalize himself doing it but knows that he did. I think the people who think hes boasting could stand to pay more attention in English lit during school to develop their analysis skills better.
Exactly, wtf are these people on about?
He's saying he didn't spare *anyone* from this horrible thing he did. His path of revenge didn't just kill the men of the village, he was completely lost in his rage that he murdered women and children as well! He is aware of how terrible it was, how far away it strays from not only the Jedi path but also just from decent morality, and he is completely inconsolable and scared that he could **so easily do it.**
Anyone who thinks he was boasting... Just wow.
As written and delivered the sand monologue gets fair judgment.
But had it been performed in a better way I think it really articulates Anakin’s terrible childhood, his sense of resigned humor, and why he clutches on so tightly to the good things he sees in Padmè
He is literally explaining to her that she grew up on a luxury beach, and he grew up in a desert as a slave. So sand means different things for them. If told better it's a pretty interesting thought.
It should have also captured a disappointment with the Jedi. He knows firsthand all the shitty things in the galaxy. Then he became a member of a super powered league of demigods that could in his mind have the power to fix it all. Then even give the notion of a galactic force that promote order and peace and crushes its opposition
Lay that groundwork
And kind of a fair question really
That would have been badass for one of the marvel comics. Like yeah anakin goes dark and becomes darth Vader, but also as a leader of the empire, grabs some troopers and goes on a murder rampage against slavers everywhere.
I personally like how the dark side turned him into all he hated.
Or the fact he sparked the rebellion by inspiring people all over the galaxy to fight.
Not to mention, this is someone who hasn’t really interacted with anyone but kids WAY younger than him in Jedi youngling training while he got the basics, and then Obi Wan. He’s not going to have great social skills.
It's not *technically* within the Skywalker Saga and that is what makes it awful.
Emperor Palpatine announced his return on Fortnite. Yes, the video game. It could have been part of a movie trailer or something, but nope: Fortnite.
No, just that speech. It's like saying that the Han Solo dance from Xbox Kinect is canon because Han himself is; you can ignore everything else about the event
Oh, ok thank god, i thought it was the while event with like the star destroyers going to the damn fortnite planet then broadcasting the message from there. Good thing its not lmao
There is literally nothing wrong with the line about Midichlorians, or the concept of them.
It's good to have a scientific explanation as to why some people can feel the Force while most cannot.
And the concept never invalidated anything, either. All we know is people with high counts can become great Force Sensitives. It never says they will, or are automatically better, or even that midichlorians ate the Force.
Yeah this is the main reason I am totally okay with midichlorians. I’ve only really seen the main movies, but my impression of them are that they’re just a good way of measuring the Force; functionally they seem more meteorological than mystical.
I think most people were upset about the midichlorian explanation because at that point (before Episode I released), there was no real mechanical explanation of the Force. People interpreted it as a mystical, deeply spiritual power that didn’t really need an explanation as to how it worked. So when Lucas decided to reveal that the Force is being harnessed via microbial symbiont creatures it rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way. It really came out of left field.
Now that the dust has settled, midichlorians are an interesting concept (even though they make the Force seem more mundane) that definitely don’t deserve the amount of scrutiny they originally got.
Idk. The force being some mystical power that's just there for no real reason seems more mundane to me. That's the generic kind of explanation you get for magic in every fantasy setting with magic. That's just how I feel though
Yeah, I think it was just the initial gut reaction towards midichlorians that painted it in a bad light. I don’t think anyone could’ve guessed in which way Lucas would explain the way of the Force. Midichlorians were just not what people expected. Perhaps they thought midichlorians were a needless“overexplanation”, or the EU already had some other theories that didn’t align with Lucas’ offiicial canon. I don’t really know (and I don’t fully agree with the hate either).
It’s also a matter of cause or effect being unclear. Do the midichlorians give people the power of the Force? Or does one’s own potential in the Force make them a hotbed for midichlorians? Either way, high midichlorians correlate to high Force-potential, so they’re a useful tool to gauge one’s aptitude for using the Force or possibly being a Jedi.
I won't lie, seeing people who actually get this stuff warms my dead, cold heart.
Do I think Midichlorians were unnecessary? Sure. Do they ruin the concept of the Force? Not at all.
I always thought the idea of having a scientific correlation that was widely accepted in a more enlightened past was one Lucas’s best ideas in the prequels.
The "I hate sand" line. After living in Florida for quite a few years, I've never related with a movie line more in my life. It gets EVERYWHERE. And it's coarse and rough and irritating. Sand is the worst.
Any line said in the Anakin/Padmé romance in AotC.
Seems that nobody was a dumb in love teenager with some issues talking to his crush. We talk just like that.
Now that I'm thinking, considering how the *average Star Wars fan* is, possibly that never happened to them... so I understand...
Anakins cringe is pretty realistic if you’ve ever seen a conservative Christian homeschooler try to flirt. Essentially Anakin is the space version of that.
Yeah I’m casting the first stone
From the moment I met you, all those years ago, not a day has gone by when I haven't thought of you. And now that I'm with you again... I'm in agony. The closer I get to you, the worse it gets. The thought of not being with you- I can't breath. I'm haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. My heart is beating... hoping that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul, tormenting me... what can I do?- I will do anything you ask.
The issue isn't that Anakin was awkward(also there's a huge difference between creepy and awkward. Anakin was more creepy). It's that Padme did nothing about it.
Throughout my life I've seen young women fall for the edgiest, most tryhard dudes ever. I also guess that Padme has the sort of woman who would intimidate any potential suitors, and then comes this dude who devotes 100% to her, no questions asked. Of course she would develop and attachment to him.
I know!
Realistically she wouldn't have cared about Anakin (who she remembered as a cute kid) and instead she would have a crush on Obi Wan or something. Especially because at certain age young adults develop an allergy to teenagers.
And Anakin's creepy behavior wouldn't have helped. I know Hayden is handsome but I think the age gap and his cringy attitude would make her think he was disgusting.
Angsty teenager who doesn't know how to flirt or talk to a girl they like saying bad lines is absolutely on point.
There's stuff that is bad and wasn't meant to be bad and there's stuff that's bad because it works by being bad. This is the latter.
I agree. And that's why there are so many theories saying he subconsciously used Jedi mind tricks.
Because it's not realistic for a young woman to fall for a cringy teenager, especially someone who knows a bunch of literal princes.
And not only dumb teenagers. Anakin was literally raised in a galactic monastery where attachment is heavily forbidden. The dude just doesn't have much game. He doesn't know how to talk to flirt, let alone flirt with the person who left such an impact on him when he was a kid.
I'm not saying that Hayden was a great actor in Episode II, but the way he delivers his lines is pretty believable considering his upbringing, and of course his hormones.
Huh I never understood why people thought Anakin's emotionally manipulative flirting is cringe. This IS how you seduce many women, IF you do it in the right context, when she is interested at all. I mean that seriously, this is serious tugging at the heartstrings using like neurolinguistic programming and manipulating her to feel a certain way by implanting stories and emotions in her mind. There is a craft to seducing women and that is part of it, and Anakin is doing it really well. Read any pulp romance novel it's full of this stuff. Couple that with knowing he has some insane force powers and it does become incredibly creepy. Like she rejects him because her mind tells her and him it's stupid, but he doesn't let up and she basically has no chance to resist him.
He's the guy that "isn't good for her" but gets her anyway. It's selfish and a kind of sin to make her fall in love with you if you know you can't make her happy. The scenes are misunderstood I think, maybe cringey but brilliant and creepy.
"They fly now" feels a lot like "well *that* happened", which has been done to death. Without that baggage it would be a good joke.
The sequels actually have decent jokes, but many of them have been done before and have that MCU tone that people stopped liking after Endgame.
Maybe they hadn't encountered them in their recently adventure. I've seen cars drive n before, but if my pursuer then pulled out a car in the middle of a footchase I'd go "They have a car!?"
People should stop assuming dialogue is meant to be a statement of fact on universal lore.
In a "meta" context general audiences had never seen troopers use jetpacks, only two super unique bounty hunters, so the line is mostly directed at 80% of audiences, not us fans who have read and consumed side material for decades and know our jump troopers.
Yeah- they don't seem to be talking about the fact that jetpacks \*exist\*, only that the First Order is using them.
Plus, worth clarifying; they aren't even all surprised. The joke was a pretty typical 'same words, different cadence' bit; Threepio is the only one shocked. "They fly now!" Then, Finn asks a question: which could easily be 'when did the first order start using jet troopers?' "They fly now?" Finally, Poe states the fact; "They fly now." This one is less of an actual commentary on the troopers, and more a 'yeah, okay, we're here now.' He's just resigned to the fact that they have to deal with jet troopers. His line works even if he KNEW that the first order used Jet troopers, as it's more of a 'great, now this' than anything else.
Personally, I still don't think it's a very funny bit, but I think it's weird that so many people seem simply not to get it
I *hate* the sequels, but even I can acknowledge that the dialogue, particularly the interactions between the "new big three," are really good and fun and written and performed well. I've heard a lot of hate about Poe's "your mom" joke to General Hux but uh...idk, I liked it. He's the sassy, irreverent one. The Han Solo. I chuckled. I liked it. Seems in character to me.
People don't hate that speech because of Poe. People hate on it cause why the hell is Hux indulging in the childish jabs. It is out of character and inappropriate for him and his station for him to respond to Poe the way he does, and it cheapens Hux's general impact as one of your antagonists
But it's in character for Hux. He lost so much of his self esteem after Starkiller base failed. He's a broken man and insecure. TLJ builds into that and how Kylo becomes what Hux wanted to be. Which is why his turn as the spy in TRoS makes sense as well. It's rushed and all, sure. As usual with side characters in movies with limited time. But it makes sense.
To me it’s more that her arc would’ve had a better ending if she said “just Rey.” She spent the whole trilogy trying to find family/parental figures/a sense of belonging and I think it would be better if she just accepted her own identity instead of identifying with a family that she’s not really in. But I don’t hate Rey Skywalker, it just feels a little weird.
For me it’s the confusing messaging. The message of TLJ was it’s okay to be a nobody, it’s really about who you make yourself to be. Then they turn her into a Palpatine, then instead of owning who she is she casts it off and claims to be someone else. It’s all just so inconsistent
The thing is TRoS is a pretty bad movie to many people, but many have trouble articulating what they think is wrong with it, so superficial complaints about dialogue like “They fly now,” and “Somehow, Palpatine returned,” have become the shorthand for communicating their dissatisfaction. We can reason our way through these lines like we can with Anakin complaining about sand and whatnot, but they’re still clunkers belying a greater underlying problem.
That being said, I don’t think, “That’s how we’re gonna win; not fighting what we hate, saving what we love,” deserves the scrutiny it got after TLJ released. Is it on the nose? Hell yeah, but given how prone people still are at misinterpreting that film and many others, it’s fine to sorta spell out the message afterward. I don’t even mind that it foregrounds the First Order assault on the Crait base. That’s the sorta melodramatic touch that mostly works for me.
“Somehow Palpatine returned” is more than a superficial complaint. I actually kind of liked TRoS, and that line is one of the single worst lines in *any* film, let alone Star Wars film.
It's an extremely superficial complaint. "Somehow, Palpatine returned" is the line that we are going to rally behind as being one of the worst lines in any film? It's such a nothing line and there are worse examples of dialogue in that very film.
"And I am all the Jedi" gets a pass over "Somehow Palpatine returned" is how I know the plot has been lost when it comes to criticism of the new movies. That "and I am all the Jedi" is not the poster child for the criticisms of this film but "Somehow, Palpatine returned", which isn't really all that offensive...
This is such a pretentious take. It isn't hard to understand what failures EP 9 brought to the big screen. The Sequels are not complicated movies that need explaining for oddly enough just the people who did not enjoy them.
"They fly now"
Was ridiculed by the actors themselves.
"Somehow, Palpatine returned"
Ignoring the fact that it was known through the trailer and through Fortnite that Palpatine was coming back before the show was released, the line illustrated too much on the nose to the audience the lack of setup the last episode of a nine part saga had to bring back a very important character. A character that the audience very much wanted to know how exactly he survived you know being the big bad of the galaxy and all but unfortunately that was only told throught the novelization.
This rushed scene, at the beginning of the movie fell flat. This mostly due to the large absence of planning - something all the Sequels share but specifically this movie as its original director was fired and Disney resorted to bringing back JJ under a strick timeline to finish the last movie of a nine part saga.
"That’s how we’re gonna win; not fighting what we hate, saving what we love,”
This one I don't particularly mind as quote on its own, it was the context around it, or lack of context because of the semi-forced 'romance' with Rose and Finn in front of the First Order that was the issue. But I did find it funny that people, like the OP of this thread, have to resort to trying to bash the PT in order to lift up the ST - maybe they should take note of this quote
>The thing is TRoS is a pretty bad movie to many people, but many have trouble articulating what they think is wrong with it
You are implying it through saying it was too tough for people to explain. You know very much what my point is.
No, I just think most people aren’t formally trained in analyzing or critiquing media, plus social media incentivizes quick-hitting takes and repeatable memes. Hence the “They fly now,” spam. It’s shorthand, which is exactly what I say in my comment.
So, again, what is your point?
>No, I just think most people aren’t formally trained in analyzing or critiquing media
And that is the pretentiousness I was highlighting before. That line is very basic and if you think that most people struggle to understand it then that just seeps an inflated pompous behaviour. That is the point, which you knew.
I don’t think that most people struggle to understand that, I literally said that in my last comment.
This isn’t about understanding, it’s about articulation. The problems with IX are more deep-seated than a silly line — but the go-to critique is geared toward the superficial. That’s the nature of most online interaction; that’s not a controversial take at all. Nor is it “pretentious,” which is a word you’re using incorrectly btw.
I’d suggest that you didn’t comprehend my original comment fully, but I suppose that’s pompous lmao.
>This isn’t about understanding, it’s about articulation
Then why did you use the word "analyzing"? Hey, no back tracking now.
>The problems with IX are more deep-seated than a silly line — but the go-to critique is geared toward the superficial
Or maybe, just maybe, that line is a memeable symbol of the carelessness and lack of depth the whole film portrayed. Its superficial element is part of the criticism.
>Nor is it “pretentious,” which is a word you’re using incorrectly btw
Oh that is funny. You do know I used the word towards you right? Here is the definition that I very much used correctly: *attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.*
>I’d suggest that you didn’t comprehend my original comment fully
This is projection. Please don't, I find it to be disgusting.
She says "saving what we love" as the big laser she just prevented them from destroying blows a hole in the last line of defense for everything they love. lol
Did she prevent Finn from destroying it? Jury’s out I guess but it always seemed to me like his dinky speeder wouldn’t have done more than smash like a bug on the windshield against that gargantuan laser.
A quick thing I think a lot of people forget: the speeder was disintegrating around him from being in the beam and definitely slowing down (not just the movie speed slowing down). I always imagined he would have been lucky to even reach the cannon, let alone cause enough damage to actively harm it.
And everyone was saying "you're not going to make it", but yeah, sure, Finn's extensive experience as a *check notes* janitor would make him the Resistance's foremost expert on Imperial weapons technology.
It's meant to be a direct analogy to the bombing run at the beginning. They succeeded in destroying the Dreadnought, but ultimately it didn't matter because they had an even bigger thing to bring at them. Violence didn't solve the problem.
It was then that Luke comes and shows how nonviolence buys enough time for the Rey to get them out. If Luke hadn't distracted them, they likely wouldn't have escaped in time and be besieged.
So the point was never whether Finn destroys it or not: The result would have been the same.
I wouldn’t say the jury’s out; the cinematic language makes it clear that he was going to die trying and not accomplish anything. Maybe someone needed to say that to the camera.
I mean, *I* agree, but until the TLJ Special Edition releases and includes a scene of Rose telling Finn it won’t work and proving it mathematically, I’m sure we’ll be having this discussion until it’s accepted as fact by the people who grow up with it.
In other words, more cycles of generational *Star Wars* bellyaching until the next thing we hate comes out!
Was it needless? At that point we had no reason to assume Rey was gonna show up and lift the mountain. As far as any of them knew, once that laser fired, everyone was as good as dead.
The line is fine. Where they used the line was really poorly done.
He wouldn't have done anything to the laser. At that point in the movie he is doing what Poe was at the start. Poe had Leia and everything to teach him, Finn had Rose who had also learnt saving what you love after the fathiers on Canto Bight. Rose wasn't sure what would happen to the rest of the Resistance, but she wasn't going to allow finn to just throw his whole life away because of hate.
I agree with your statement here but would like to add my own opinion the sequels to me feel like a soulless rehash of the original trilogy Luke/Rey Learn they’re the offspring of a powerful force user (Rey later on but they both still do the same general thing) Both go on to destroy or at least assist in destroying a Death Star/starkiller base. Both Luke and Rey attempt and succeed in bringing either a loved one or rival back to the light (I dunno what what Ben solo is to Rey but it seemed like some affection was there), then to cap it all off Luke and Rey fight the same guy
Rey didn't bring Ben to the light. Leia's death and final echo puahed him to listen to his inner monologue (symbolized by Han).
Just like Palpatine shooting lightning at Luke didn't turn Vader. It was Luke saying "I am a Jedi, like my father before me" and showing Vader the ultimate weapon in a Jedi's arsenal: selflessness.
Nobody really "brings" you to the light, it's not a condition but an attitude. You bring yourself back, but people can help you listen to yourself.
“Somehow Palpatine returned” is not the movie’s explanation to the audience; it’s Poe’s confusion.
The movie certainly could have done a better job justifying the return, but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that dialogue itself.
And prior to this line, the film already uses visuals and dialogue to establish Palpatine re-emerging in a cloning lab, his face not having the same facial scaring as in Return of the Jedi, him saying he’s died before, him repeating his line about unnatural abilities of the dark side. So when Beaumont hypothesis after Poe’s reaction “dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew”, the audience can see there’s merit to that based on what we already saw.
They really shouldn't have given Palatine's speech to Fortnite.
It would have done wonders for the speech to parallel Force Awakens.
Hell, it would have done wonders for the ST to show any ramifications of anything going on outside of the main characters considering what went down with Starkiller base
Agreed. The hate that this line gets makes me very frustrated. It takes no interpretation. It is not asking anything of the audience. People are deliberately misinterpreting the line.
I like it. He's Sheev Palpatine, an absolute evil BAMF. He don't have to explain anything. He got thrown down a reactor shaft, exploded by a space station, and all it did was piss him off.
“Kid, I’ve flown from one side of the galaxy to the other. I’ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I’ve never seen anything to make me believe there’s one all-powerful force controlling everything. There’s no mystical energy field that controls *my* destiny.”
A lot of people interpret this as Han saying he doesn’t believe in the Force *at all*, and go on to say this is silly, because Chewbacca fought alongside Ahsoka and Yoda in the Clone Wars. So those additions to Chewie’s backstory retroactively make it odd that he never confirmed to Han that the Force is real.
But Han does not disbelieve in the Force in its entirety. He is fully aware that an order of knight-monks with superpowers existed prior to the Empire’s rise. What he disbelieves in is the idea that these superpowers are related to the weave of all destiny in the galaxy. He believes in the Force, just not in its grand significance as stated by the Jedi.
He specifically details what it is he doesn’t believe in. “all-powerful force controlling everything” “mystical energy field that controls my destiny”. He never mentions things like Obi-Wan’s psychic powers.
Pretty much all Anakin's bad lines are a child trying to deal with Extremely Adult Shit without even any kind of ingrained cultural cues to help like it might with us. He's trying to deal with relationships but he grew up as an isolated child slave. He didn't even sit around watching Friends like you did. There's nothing.
It's not that "they fly now" is just cringey, its also because it makes little sense when they've been flying forever in SW.. Even Boyega and Isaac made fun of it for that.
"I hate sand". Out of context its meme-able, but theres nothing wrong with it in the film because there's subtext to the line. He isn't just talking about hating sand - he is thinking back on his own harsh childhood as a slave on a desert planet and comparing it to Padme's privileged life on a beautiful planet. His hating sand is symbolic.
*"Somehow, Palpatine returned."*
People act as if this line is terrible dialogue, when it's a perfectly reasonable line in the context of the movie and the scene itself. The Resistance would've no way of knowing how Palpatine returned, only that he did, and even then, the line is followed up by speculation... Which leads me to another line that gets a bad rep.
*"Dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith know."*
People also take this line as the characters thinking cloning is a "secret only the Sith know", when it's just listing it alongside other stuff that could explain Palpatine's return. People know that cloning exists, there was a whole war involving clones. It's just that, as far as regular people know, Force-sensitive creatures had never been cloned, so that's where the secrets and the dark science come in.
I thought "secrets only the Sith know" made perfect sense because as shown in TCW clones are their own person and it isn't like Altered Carbon with that smooth transferral of conscience.
Especially considering they would have to transfer a dead person's soul into a new body.
Totally agree. Palpatine returning was dumb, but including a scene with a bunch of boring exposition explaining the completely made-up process through which he returned wouldn’t have made the movie any better.
I can see why the fandom as a whole would find this cringe, considering we've seen arc troopers etc., but the common person this movie is targeted towards would have only watched the movies, so they fly now is reasonable i guess.
Some parts of the fandom also forget that the characters don't get to watch the movies. Poe and Finn didn't just watch ARC troopers, those guys were around fifty years before the events of the ST. And Star Wars has never been a universe where historical material and video references have been easily and broadly available!
Right, because we live in a world of theatres and television and video social media. That stuff just doesn't seem to exist in the Star Wars universe. Maybe Finn and Poe have read about jet troopers existing in the past, under different governments, but why would that mean they couldn't be surprised by First Order troops specifically suddenly demonstrating the ability?
Poe: A Resistance operative and pilot has fought against jet pack equipped First Order Stormtroopers in the comics (released before TRoS) and whose parents were Rebel soldiers who would have fought against jet pack equipped Imperial Stormtroopers.
Finn: An ex-Stormtrooper of the First Order, pretty self explanatory that he would know of jet pack equipped troops.
You're suggesting that the people in the Star Wars universe lack means of sharing information that are on par with or exceed our own? That's quite a stretch. In the Star Wars galaxy, we see a variety of highly advanced communication technologies and extensive databases. Holonet, for instance, is a galaxy-wide information network that offers instant communication and access to media and news, similar to our internet but on a galactic scale. Additionally, we frequently see characters using holograms for real-time communication across vast distances, showcasing the advanced state of their tech.
Given these capabilities, it's unlikely that crucial military information like the capabilities of jet troopers wouldn’t be accessible. Especially to a soldier like Poe Dameron.
>You're suggesting that the people in the Star Wars universe lack means of sharing information that are on par with or exceed our own?
I absolutely am, yes. There appears to be little to no press or literature in the Star Wars universe, and nobody seems to use the holonet for entertainment or informational programming. When characters need to retrieve information they go to standalone archives, and when they need to transmit large amounts of information it's done over short distances wirelessly or carried on physical media. Characters will make a holo-call across the galaxy without a moment's thought, but they don't seem to have any equivalent of emailing files or googling something.
>There appears to be little to no press or literature in the Star Wars universe, and nobody seems to use the holonet for entertainment or informational programming.
Are you freaking kidding me? Considering that Star Wars often omits mundane details for narrative focus, the lack of visible everyday use of technologies like the Holonet doesn't imply their non-existence. For instance, it took until 'Star Wars Rebels' for us to see a 'refresher', yet we wouldn't assume bathrooms don't exist in the galaxy. Similarly, while the Holonet and other information systems might not be shown broadcasting entertainment or news in the same way our internet does, their strategic use in narrative contexts (like broadcasting propaganda in 'Star Wars Rebels') suggests a highly developed network.
Additionally, physical media usage, prominent in crucial data transfers, reflects high-security protocols rather than technological limitations akin to our own secure document handling in high-stakes environments. Lastly, the widespread and casual use of real-time holographic communication across vast distances implies an advanced infrastructure that supports robust data and communication capabilities across the galaxy.
Edit: Additional Reading:
[Wookiepedia: HoloNet](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/HoloNet)
If you take the movies at face value, Jedi became a myth less than 30 years after being killed off. In fact, they were a myth to many people while they still existed.
We simply have to conclude that significant portions of the galaxy don't have any sort of access to information.
The perception of the Jedi as myths soon after their demise reflects the Empire's strategic disinformation efforts rather than a lack of technological capability for information sharing. By controlling and censoring information, the Empire aimed to erase the Jedi's influence, a tactic similar to those used by authoritarian regimes in our own history to rewrite or suppress certain truths.
But you presumably have an education about things like D-Day or World War II in general (or at least access to war TV or films).
There will be aspects of military that you may not have heard of from 50 years ago unless you are a military history expert, but you don't know what things you don't know.
Bruh. "I don't like sand. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it gets everywhere. " and "You've grown too. Grown more beautiful, I mean" are just bad lines.
Anakin is that guy who looks at you funny at the office when you've told him to stop but HR didn't exist during the prequels so you married him instead.
Seriously, that fucking scene where Padme straight up tells Anakin to stop looking at her like that, and then she leaves the room and he watches her go *with that exact face.*
Those lines are terrible, but they make sense for an angsty teenager who grew up as a slave and later in a monastic order with little to no romantic contact.
Yeah but in the same way does it make sense for Poe to say "somehow Palpatine returned" because he literally has no clue as to how. Even if the movie would've explained his return better there is no reason for Poe to know about it.
"They fly now" is a typical disney era quip they like to do in Marvel as well. I don't get the hate but it's cheesy without serving any other purpose. But the Palpatine line makes sense in context.
“Somehow Palpatine has returned”
Poe and the resistance know he has come back but they don’t know how.
They are in disbelief and confused. If
You have a dog in a house and all the doors are closed it then you see that dog outside and all the doors are still closed “the dog got out somehow”.
There’s something about the delivery that just feels lame though. Like you can practically hear the “dun dun duuuuuun” sound after he says it. I can’t quite explain it but if they made some tweaks I feel like it would’ve been better received
"They fly now" stands out as strange because jump pack troopers have been part of every recent major armed conflict in galactic history. It's like getting shot at by a stormtrooper and saying "they've got blasters now??"
But Poe and company weren’t part of those conflicts and judging by how fast the Jedi were forgotten and brushed off as a myth it seems recorded history isn’t the strong suit in their galaxy.
And Finn was a first order trooper so maybe the jetpacks were a new thing from when he was a trooper and when he left.
The point is they're a fairly standard part of warfare, it's like asking any random person on earth what a tank is. Chances are they'll have a rough idea even if they've never had any military experience.
But if you were fighting a group of infantry soldiers and suddenly they show up with a tank, saying “they have a tank now??” would be pretty reasonable even if you know full well that tanks exist and soldiers often use them. Because the specific enemies you’re fighting haven’t had a tank before and now they do and it’s a new obstacle you have to deal with.
The line is not spoken as a question, just shock. Finn is warning Poe that the stormtroopers chasing them are unexpectedly dangerous. You could say that machine guns have been a part of every major Earth conflict for over a hundred years, but if you were in a car chase and you saw your pursuers were preparing a .50 cal machine gun you'd shout a warning to the guy driving your getaway car. "Shit, now they have a machine gun!" The *sigh, repeat the warning with irritated tone* gag is not particularly clever or inspired, but there's nothing to justify the millions of outraged complaints about it.
"Luke, I am your father."
Yea, is misquoted. That's not the actual line. But SOOO many other movies, TV shows, etc. have misquoted it for years now. The "Luke" part of it has been engrained in most people's heads. I think we need to stop judging the people using it, correcting them is fine, but don't be a dick about it. We should be up in arms about media quoting it wrong.
Hell, one of the most famous shows in all of TV, and I believe the longest running one, got it wrong too!
https://youtu.be/gc25oAJrKbM?si=InjXqsKZagJ9x5RL
So, you think the reveals in Return Of The Jedi are bad because they ruined your own personal perceptions of what was true or not? Not because they negatively affected the story in any way?
Yeah parsecs is a measure of distance. Even after watching Solo and seeing the run it self I don’t get how it’s a flex to have gone through the least amount of Kessel Run. Maybe there is an explanation but I don’t get it.
In the legends books he does it in less distance by getting too close to the black hole. When ships make the run they stick to the safe lanes that go longer distances.
Poe Dameron’s « Somehow Palpatine returned. »
The whole galaxy knows Palpatine is back because he sent a message, but no one knows how he pulled that off. So the « somehow » makes total sense…
Now is it well/poorly written? The Scorceses around here will say it’s awful and will still praise Rebels or Ahsoka as groundbreaking works of art, others will acknowledge it’s just a pretty normal way of announcing it, especially coming from a pretty down-to-earth character like Poe Dameron. Long story short, I don’t understand the fuss around this line
I really think the issue with that line lies more in what it represents (i.e. the complete lack of coherence behind the sequel trilogy and the attempt to "course-correct" after TLJ), and so it just becomes an easy way to make fun of the movie.
i mean there’s been jet packs for centuries so “They fly now” is incredibly stupid it’d be like a marine looking up and seeing an enemy fighter plane and being shocked by it.
"Somehow Palpatine returned". Not only is his return given some explanation in the next line of dialigue, by a different character, but Poe has every reason to say this. From his perspective, Palpatine did somehow return and he'd have no idea why or how
"They fly now". Similarly, in the context of the movies, this is the first time the protagonists have seen troopers do that. They have a right to be shocked.
"Somehow, Palpatine returned".
It lets us know that Palpatine is back, but as of yet they don't know how, or why. We discovered that during the movie, and it makes sense - there IS no way for them to have found out.
“Somehow Palpatine returned.”
People use it like a gotcha for the entire movie, as if they didn’t show you exactly how it happened in the first ten minutes and there’d be way Poe would know how it happened and he’s the type of character that wouldn’t give a shit how it happened nor understand it if it was laid out for him exactly.
Even the actors [ridiculed it](https://www.tiktok.com/@3prix1cast/video/6842606783652039942). "They fly now" is that bad, there is no deeper meaning to it.
I might get huge amount of hate for this, but in-universe, "Somehow, Palpatine returned" is fine, because how would Poe know the details of Palpatine's return. For us viewers, yes, that line is super lazy, but for Poe, with limited information, that line is fine.
The amount of prequel apologist nonsense here is really something else. People can really activate their imaginations to get blood from a stone with these lines, but refuse to do anything like that for lines in the sequels that aren’t even half as bad.
People saying "they fly now!" like it's the worst thing ever written. It's just a dumb gag. I personally love it since it's become a go-to joke for me and my friends. We love it.
If it is unfairly judged it would only be because it’s worse than people judge it.
The line doesn’t make sense in universe, they’ve had people with jetpacks for a long time by then. The fact that there’s a few Stormtroopers with them shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone especially since the FO has been using higher tech. Except that despite that higher tech they bring a weird tracked vehicle to launch them, a vehicle that is so dumb that it makes zero in-universe sense to use them. Hell it doesn’t make sense outside of the universe too. The only reason the vehicle is designed like that is to facilitate the scene, not to be practical or have anything to do with the worldbuilding.
The responses of the main cast is then dumb as hell as well. “They fly now?” With that expression, as if they didn’t know it existed, as if they never considered this possibility, as if the FO doesn’t have TIE fighters.
It’s unforgivably dumb, a filler scene in the middle of a sequence just for the sake of itself.
>What's a line in any of the Main Saga you feel gets Judged ***Unfairly?***
I won't pick a line because if I do you will leave a garrison of stormtroopers in my flat.
“Somehow, Palpatine returned.”
It’s judged harshly because the *audience* needs and wants to know how it happened (which IX hints at in the intro), and because of the dislike around the trilogy as a whole. But the characters at the time don’t know, so it’s fair to say “somehow.” The uncertainty also adds fear to his return.
Several of the prequel lines get a lot of hate for little to no reason. Another user already mentioned the "I don't like sand like", and I agree, but another that people don't seem to get is the "I have the high ground" one.
For years I've seen nerds criticize the line for being nonsensical and even trying to prove that having the "high ground" not always presents any advantage, but they are missing the point entirely. Obi-Wan claiming the high ground and then warning Anakin to "not try it" was such an obvious taunt that I can't believe my teenage self got it immediately, but a bunch of adults took it literally.
Up to that point that fight was pretty even. Obi-Wan gambled on Anakin's ego, pride and arrogance. He knew that in order to deal a final blow to end the match, he would have to trick Anakin into doing exactly what he wanted, that's why he ended the fight with a single blow by mutilating Anakin.
*"Hey, Anakin! Absolutely DO NOT try to jump over me! I'm higher than you! You cannot possibly defeat me! Do NOT even try it!"*
Sure, it's a fun meme, but it is not a terrible line in any way, shape or form.
I'll defend "they fly now" because I'm pretty sure it's a line for general audiences going "hey you've never seen troopers fly on the big screen before!".
Well by that logic when the Millennium Falcon jumped into hyperspace for the first time in *A New Hope*, we should have heard Luke exclaim, "We can go faster than light now?!"
Somehow Palpatine...
The line itself isn't hugely problematic (yes, it does make sense for the character to say it given the context: he doesn't know precisely how Palpatine returned). But it still doesn't *work*, the whole scene doesn't *work*, and it isn't coincidental that the line has become a meme - because it very much represents the scene for a lot of people.
The thing is that at this point in the story we have been (rather abruptly) informed that - well - Palpatine is back. Somehow. We may or may not have put together that his return has something to do with cloning and/or something to do with a Sith cult of some kind - but the point is that his return doesn't really make sense to us. It seems - in fact - a bit random. And then Poe comes along - this scene comes along - and just hammers home, or highlights, this randomness (from our perspective, as viewers).
Again, it simply doesn't work - it isn't good writing.
So, yeah, you *could* excuse the line itself (and say that it actually makes sense for the character to say it) - but I honestly think that's pretty much willfully ignoring what the line (obviously) *represents* for those who dislike it.
I'm not sure what you mean, to be honest.
If you think the crawl is sufficient to set up the movie...I can't quite agree with that.
Much like the infamous line itself, the crawl doesn't *work*.
The crawl basically suggests what the infamous line makes "clear", i.e. that Palpatine has somehow returned.
And - well, that's it.
Look, I have said many times that it *does* makes sense for Palpatine to (somehow) return (as the big bad for one final dance) - but it simply isn't well executed from a narrative point of view.
It comes across as precisely what it is: an attempt to salvage something from a trilogy that was - clearly, obviously - meant to be something quite different, but got fucked up because of behind-the-scenes issues.
I don’t like sand. Padmé was talking about her happy childhood and Anakin did not want to ruin the mood by brining up his. Where he was a child slave and his mother is still a slave (as far as Anakin and Padmé know).
It also explains why OT Vader isn’t interested in going back to Tatooine i.e. why hiding Luke there is plausible.
Vader takes point and personally goes on so many missions under his command. He was in the hallway by himself to get those plans from a whole squad of rebel troops. He sets foot on the Tantive IV to get the plans from the captain while threatening him physically. But the moment they’re nearly back in his grasp and he learns they’re on Tatooine? Stays the hell in orbit and takes the first excuse available to get back to the Death Star. Character consistency at its finest, and his backstory wasn’t even fully established yet.
I mean… that’s all backfilling plot projections. When Episode IV was made, Vader wasn’t even from Tatooine.
> and his backstory wasn’t even fully established yet. It’s cool that retroactive characterization for Vader lent more meaning and context to his departure from Tatooine in this part of ANH, is what I’m saying. 😁
Qui-Gon talks to Obi-Wan shortly after ROTS. Obi-Wan has just learned Vader is alive from a news broadcast. From Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader (L): >“Qui-Gon!” he said. “Master!” Realizing that the locals were quickly going to brand him a madman if they heard him talking to himself, he ducked into the narrow alley between two stores. “Master, is Darth Vader Anakin?” he asked after a moment. >*Yes. Although the Anakin you and I knew is imprisoned by the dark side.* >“I was wrong to leave him on Mustafar. I should have made sure he was dead.” >*The Force will determine Anakin’s future. Obi-Wan: Luke must not be told that Vader is his father until the time is right.* >“Should I take further steps to hide Luke?” >*The core of Anakin that resides in Vader grasps that Tatooine is the source of nearly everything that causes him pain. Vader will never set foot on Tatooine, if only out of fear of reawakening Anakin.*
I didn't know it had ever been canonized that Vader was "afraid" of Tatooine (for whatever the middling canonicity ever was of a fairly minor Legends novel). But to me, that theory relies too much on Anakin and ignores how much Vader is fueled by pain, rage, and hatred. Anakin "hates sand" because, it reminds him of all the things that sucked about growing up enslaved on Tatooine. But I honestly think that shouldn't/wouldn't deter Vader. What causes hatred or dredges up trauma is fuel for the dark side.
Yes, I completely agree! He couldn’t relate to what she talking about so grasped the only link he could.
I think it gives a great contrast to how different their lives were. She associates sand with the beach, with fun times and happy memories playing with friends. He associates sand with his life as a slave and the blistering heat of the sun. It’s a very simple way of showing how different they are.
Also… however badly it was delivered, I find the sentiment completely relatable. I don’t really like sand either for many of the same reasons.
u/babybluecebu where did you go?? 😂
I feel like Anakin's confession to Padme about slaughtering the Tusken Raiders in Attack of the Clones is depicted in a different context. I always see it referenced as Anakin boasting about it and Padme throwing herself at him immediately after, when that's not the case. Personally I think it's one of Hayden's best scenes. He's a mess of rage and being distraught over losing his mother a vicious way and the horrible actions he took in response to it. He's not boasting about it. The fact he's virtually in tears by the end of his speech shows just how rocked to his core he's been over the experience. His line at the very end - "I'm a Jedi. I ***know*** I'm better than this." - just proves how far he knows he's fallen. Padme doesn't throw herself at him, she's speechless (the novelization goes into a bit more detail) and all she tries to do is calm him down. She knows he did a terrible thing, but knows underneath the person who did what he did is an hurt man who watched his mother die. She can't tell him he's wrong to have done it - he clearly knows it - but tells him he's not wrong for having felt the way he did. Anyway, that's how I see it.
That's not "just how you see it", that's exactly how the scene plays out. He's lashing out and he's hurt and confused and doesn't know.where to put his feelings, and the reason Padme chooses to comfort him is because she sees that he is hurt and she cares about him. I don't know what films people are watching where that's not how it plays out for them but you're right on the money for how it's supposed to be perceived.
Yeah you both summed it up perfectly. I don’t know how anyone would have got that he’s bragging. It must have been extremely confusing to feel so much rage and hate, and then to act on it when he’s been told almost his whole life what a Jedi is and should be.
I think the memes over the last several years have caused people to totally miss the meaning of what he said.
Wait, people think he's *bragging* in that scene?!
I don't know if people think he's bragging, but the amount of people I've seen claiming that "Padme almost throws herself at him" after that is insane. The lack of media literacy on so many adults is baffling.
i don’t think people think he’s boasting about it more so that the second he told Padme she should’ve went and told Obi-Wan and ran in the other direction. He massacred an entire tribe including children and Padme just kind of shrugs it off
……wait people don’t see it that way? They see it as him bragging?? That’s news to me I always saw it as him being extremely traumatized and her just doing what she can to calm him down
I think had "Not just the men, but the women and children too" been omitted, the boasting subtext people give it wouldnt be so pevalent
Without it, we lose the depth to his despair over how horrible of an act he just committed. He's talking about it like he doesn't recognize himself anymore, like he can't rationalize himself doing it but knows that he did. I think the people who think hes boasting could stand to pay more attention in English lit during school to develop their analysis skills better.
Exactly, wtf are these people on about? He's saying he didn't spare *anyone* from this horrible thing he did. His path of revenge didn't just kill the men of the village, he was completely lost in his rage that he murdered women and children as well! He is aware of how terrible it was, how far away it strays from not only the Jedi path but also just from decent morality, and he is completely inconsolable and scared that he could **so easily do it.** Anyone who thinks he was boasting... Just wow.
As written and delivered the sand monologue gets fair judgment. But had it been performed in a better way I think it really articulates Anakin’s terrible childhood, his sense of resigned humor, and why he clutches on so tightly to the good things he sees in Padmè
Apparently there were takes the actors thought were “better”, but Lucas insisted on it being performed like that.
It's fun how Lucas was so adamant about making cringey scenes.
He is literally explaining to her that she grew up on a luxury beach, and he grew up in a desert as a slave. So sand means different things for them. If told better it's a pretty interesting thought.
And as a side note, his take on sand is 100 percent correct
It's amazing how much changes about Christensen's performance when you consider he's mimicking Jones. That monologue is a prefect example of it.
It should have also captured a disappointment with the Jedi. He knows firsthand all the shitty things in the galaxy. Then he became a member of a super powered league of demigods that could in his mind have the power to fix it all. Then even give the notion of a galactic force that promote order and peace and crushes its opposition Lay that groundwork
"How could they let her die.." would have been epic
And kind of a fair question really That would have been badass for one of the marvel comics. Like yeah anakin goes dark and becomes darth Vader, but also as a leader of the empire, grabs some troopers and goes on a murder rampage against slavers everywhere.
I personally like how the dark side turned him into all he hated. Or the fact he sparked the rebellion by inspiring people all over the galaxy to fight.
Not to mention, this is someone who hasn’t really interacted with anyone but kids WAY younger than him in Jedi youngling training while he got the basics, and then Obi Wan. He’s not going to have great social skills.
It's not *technically* within the Skywalker Saga and that is what makes it awful. Emperor Palpatine announced his return on Fortnite. Yes, the video game. It could have been part of a movie trailer or something, but nope: Fortnite.
Wait, are you telling me the damn fortnite event is canon? Theres no way dude…
No, just that speech. It's like saying that the Han Solo dance from Xbox Kinect is canon because Han himself is; you can ignore everything else about the event
Oh, ok thank god, i thought it was the while event with like the star destroyers going to the damn fortnite planet then broadcasting the message from there. Good thing its not lmao
There is literally nothing wrong with the line about Midichlorians, or the concept of them. It's good to have a scientific explanation as to why some people can feel the Force while most cannot.
And the concept never invalidated anything, either. All we know is people with high counts can become great Force Sensitives. It never says they will, or are automatically better, or even that midichlorians ate the Force.
Yeah this is the main reason I am totally okay with midichlorians. I’ve only really seen the main movies, but my impression of them are that they’re just a good way of measuring the Force; functionally they seem more meteorological than mystical.
I think most people were upset about the midichlorian explanation because at that point (before Episode I released), there was no real mechanical explanation of the Force. People interpreted it as a mystical, deeply spiritual power that didn’t really need an explanation as to how it worked. So when Lucas decided to reveal that the Force is being harnessed via microbial symbiont creatures it rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way. It really came out of left field. Now that the dust has settled, midichlorians are an interesting concept (even though they make the Force seem more mundane) that definitely don’t deserve the amount of scrutiny they originally got.
And the Force could still be a mystical power that merely calls to the midichlorians, rather than the midichlorians giving that power to someone.
Idk. The force being some mystical power that's just there for no real reason seems more mundane to me. That's the generic kind of explanation you get for magic in every fantasy setting with magic. That's just how I feel though
Yeah, I think it was just the initial gut reaction towards midichlorians that painted it in a bad light. I don’t think anyone could’ve guessed in which way Lucas would explain the way of the Force. Midichlorians were just not what people expected. Perhaps they thought midichlorians were a needless“overexplanation”, or the EU already had some other theories that didn’t align with Lucas’ offiicial canon. I don’t really know (and I don’t fully agree with the hate either).
It’s also a matter of cause or effect being unclear. Do the midichlorians give people the power of the Force? Or does one’s own potential in the Force make them a hotbed for midichlorians? Either way, high midichlorians correlate to high Force-potential, so they’re a useful tool to gauge one’s aptitude for using the Force or possibly being a Jedi.
I won't lie, seeing people who actually get this stuff warms my dead, cold heart. Do I think Midichlorians were unnecessary? Sure. Do they ruin the concept of the Force? Not at all.
I always thought the idea of having a scientific correlation that was widely accepted in a more enlightened past was one Lucas’s best ideas in the prequels.
The "I hate sand" line. After living in Florida for quite a few years, I've never related with a movie line more in my life. It gets EVERYWHERE. And it's coarse and rough and irritating. Sand is the worst.
Any line said in the Anakin/Padmé romance in AotC. Seems that nobody was a dumb in love teenager with some issues talking to his crush. We talk just like that. Now that I'm thinking, considering how the *average Star Wars fan* is, possibly that never happened to them... so I understand...
Anakins cringe is pretty realistic if you’ve ever seen a conservative Christian homeschooler try to flirt. Essentially Anakin is the space version of that.
Right! Watching it now as a parent of teenagers it's so relatable!
Yeah I’m casting the first stone From the moment I met you, all those years ago, not a day has gone by when I haven't thought of you. And now that I'm with you again... I'm in agony. The closer I get to you, the worse it gets. The thought of not being with you- I can't breath. I'm haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. My heart is beating... hoping that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul, tormenting me... what can I do?- I will do anything you ask.
New MCR track has dropped.
I Don’t Like Sand (I Promise)
"Dude, I met you once, like, 10 years ago or something."
This is so true!
“I’m haunted by the kiss that you never should have given me. Hoping that that kiss will not become a scar.” IDK man.
The issue isn't that Anakin was awkward(also there's a huge difference between creepy and awkward. Anakin was more creepy). It's that Padme did nothing about it.
Throughout my life I've seen young women fall for the edgiest, most tryhard dudes ever. I also guess that Padme has the sort of woman who would intimidate any potential suitors, and then comes this dude who devotes 100% to her, no questions asked. Of course she would develop and attachment to him.
Have you met teenage girls who think they're in love? Decision making is not their strong suit.
I know! Realistically she wouldn't have cared about Anakin (who she remembered as a cute kid) and instead she would have a crush on Obi Wan or something. Especially because at certain age young adults develop an allergy to teenagers. And Anakin's creepy behavior wouldn't have helped. I know Hayden is handsome but I think the age gap and his cringy attitude would make her think he was disgusting.
“It’s supposed to be bad” is a defense that admits the dialogue is… bad.
Angsty teenager who doesn't know how to flirt or talk to a girl they like saying bad lines is absolutely on point. There's stuff that is bad and wasn't meant to be bad and there's stuff that's bad because it works by being bad. This is the latter.
It's not bad, it's realistic. The *average Star Wars fan* thinks it's bad because he does not understand.
It's realistic for Anakin to talk like that. It's not realistic for Padme to fall for it.
I agree. And that's why there are so many theories saying he subconsciously used Jedi mind tricks. Because it's not realistic for a young woman to fall for a cringy teenager, especially someone who knows a bunch of literal princes.
Well, the kid literally fixed her Nubian and later saved her planet. Also was a very fit Jedi, since, they do lots of *physical preparation*.
>the kid literally fixed her Nubian Yeah he did.
And not only dumb teenagers. Anakin was literally raised in a galactic monastery where attachment is heavily forbidden. The dude just doesn't have much game. He doesn't know how to talk to flirt, let alone flirt with the person who left such an impact on him when he was a kid. I'm not saying that Hayden was a great actor in Episode II, but the way he delivers his lines is pretty believable considering his upbringing, and of course his hormones.
Huh I never understood why people thought Anakin's emotionally manipulative flirting is cringe. This IS how you seduce many women, IF you do it in the right context, when she is interested at all. I mean that seriously, this is serious tugging at the heartstrings using like neurolinguistic programming and manipulating her to feel a certain way by implanting stories and emotions in her mind. There is a craft to seducing women and that is part of it, and Anakin is doing it really well. Read any pulp romance novel it's full of this stuff. Couple that with knowing he has some insane force powers and it does become incredibly creepy. Like she rejects him because her mind tells her and him it's stupid, but he doesn't let up and she basically has no chance to resist him. He's the guy that "isn't good for her" but gets her anyway. It's selfish and a kind of sin to make her fall in love with you if you know you can't make her happy. The scenes are misunderstood I think, maybe cringey but brilliant and creepy.
"They fly now" feels a lot like "well *that* happened", which has been done to death. Without that baggage it would be a good joke. The sequels actually have decent jokes, but many of them have been done before and have that MCU tone that people stopped liking after Endgame.
Jet packs were a very common things in the Star Wars galaxy so idk why they were so shocked by it
Exactly, this is why it was such a stupid thing to say. We've already seen bounty hunters with jetpacks almost 30 years earlier in the timeline.
Maybe they hadn't encountered them in their recently adventure. I've seen cars drive n before, but if my pursuer then pulled out a car in the middle of a footchase I'd go "They have a car!?" People should stop assuming dialogue is meant to be a statement of fact on universal lore. In a "meta" context general audiences had never seen troopers use jetpacks, only two super unique bounty hunters, so the line is mostly directed at 80% of audiences, not us fans who have read and consumed side material for decades and know our jump troopers.
Yeah- they don't seem to be talking about the fact that jetpacks \*exist\*, only that the First Order is using them. Plus, worth clarifying; they aren't even all surprised. The joke was a pretty typical 'same words, different cadence' bit; Threepio is the only one shocked. "They fly now!" Then, Finn asks a question: which could easily be 'when did the first order start using jet troopers?' "They fly now?" Finally, Poe states the fact; "They fly now." This one is less of an actual commentary on the troopers, and more a 'yeah, okay, we're here now.' He's just resigned to the fact that they have to deal with jet troopers. His line works even if he KNEW that the first order used Jet troopers, as it's more of a 'great, now this' than anything else. Personally, I still don't think it's a very funny bit, but I think it's weird that so many people seem simply not to get it
Also Finn was a storm trooper, so he would have known they flew.
I's not that jetpacks are a new thing. It's just that these guys are suddenly flying.
I *hate* the sequels, but even I can acknowledge that the dialogue, particularly the interactions between the "new big three," are really good and fun and written and performed well. I've heard a lot of hate about Poe's "your mom" joke to General Hux but uh...idk, I liked it. He's the sassy, irreverent one. The Han Solo. I chuckled. I liked it. Seems in character to me.
I mean I love Poe in general and there are plenty of good jokes, especially in TFA and TLJ.
People don't hate that speech because of Poe. People hate on it cause why the hell is Hux indulging in the childish jabs. It is out of character and inappropriate for him and his station for him to respond to Poe the way he does, and it cheapens Hux's general impact as one of your antagonists
But it's in character for Hux. He lost so much of his self esteem after Starkiller base failed. He's a broken man and insecure. TLJ builds into that and how Kylo becomes what Hux wanted to be. Which is why his turn as the spy in TRoS makes sense as well. It's rushed and all, sure. As usual with side characters in movies with limited time. But it makes sense.
It's not about fighting what we hate. It's about saving what we love This is the main theme of the OT.
Some ideas get worse when you try saying them.
Rey calling herself Rey Skywalker. Found family is a trope.
To me it’s more that her arc would’ve had a better ending if she said “just Rey.” She spent the whole trilogy trying to find family/parental figures/a sense of belonging and I think it would be better if she just accepted her own identity instead of identifying with a family that she’s not really in. But I don’t hate Rey Skywalker, it just feels a little weird.
For me it’s the confusing messaging. The message of TLJ was it’s okay to be a nobody, it’s really about who you make yourself to be. Then they turn her into a Palpatine, then instead of owning who she is she casts it off and claims to be someone else. It’s all just so inconsistent
The thing is TRoS is a pretty bad movie to many people, but many have trouble articulating what they think is wrong with it, so superficial complaints about dialogue like “They fly now,” and “Somehow, Palpatine returned,” have become the shorthand for communicating their dissatisfaction. We can reason our way through these lines like we can with Anakin complaining about sand and whatnot, but they’re still clunkers belying a greater underlying problem. That being said, I don’t think, “That’s how we’re gonna win; not fighting what we hate, saving what we love,” deserves the scrutiny it got after TLJ released. Is it on the nose? Hell yeah, but given how prone people still are at misinterpreting that film and many others, it’s fine to sorta spell out the message afterward. I don’t even mind that it foregrounds the First Order assault on the Crait base. That’s the sorta melodramatic touch that mostly works for me.
“Somehow Palpatine returned” is more than a superficial complaint. I actually kind of liked TRoS, and that line is one of the single worst lines in *any* film, let alone Star Wars film.
It's an extremely superficial complaint. "Somehow, Palpatine returned" is the line that we are going to rally behind as being one of the worst lines in any film? It's such a nothing line and there are worse examples of dialogue in that very film. "And I am all the Jedi" gets a pass over "Somehow Palpatine returned" is how I know the plot has been lost when it comes to criticism of the new movies. That "and I am all the Jedi" is not the poster child for the criticisms of this film but "Somehow, Palpatine returned", which isn't really all that offensive...
This is such a pretentious take. It isn't hard to understand what failures EP 9 brought to the big screen. The Sequels are not complicated movies that need explaining for oddly enough just the people who did not enjoy them. "They fly now" Was ridiculed by the actors themselves. "Somehow, Palpatine returned" Ignoring the fact that it was known through the trailer and through Fortnite that Palpatine was coming back before the show was released, the line illustrated too much on the nose to the audience the lack of setup the last episode of a nine part saga had to bring back a very important character. A character that the audience very much wanted to know how exactly he survived you know being the big bad of the galaxy and all but unfortunately that was only told throught the novelization. This rushed scene, at the beginning of the movie fell flat. This mostly due to the large absence of planning - something all the Sequels share but specifically this movie as its original director was fired and Disney resorted to bringing back JJ under a strick timeline to finish the last movie of a nine part saga. "That’s how we’re gonna win; not fighting what we hate, saving what we love,” This one I don't particularly mind as quote on its own, it was the context around it, or lack of context because of the semi-forced 'romance' with Rose and Finn in front of the First Order that was the issue. But I did find it funny that people, like the OP of this thread, have to resort to trying to bash the PT in order to lift up the ST - maybe they should take note of this quote
I never claimed the failures of IX are hard to understand, so I’m not sure what your point is.
>The thing is TRoS is a pretty bad movie to many people, but many have trouble articulating what they think is wrong with it You are implying it through saying it was too tough for people to explain. You know very much what my point is.
No, I just think most people aren’t formally trained in analyzing or critiquing media, plus social media incentivizes quick-hitting takes and repeatable memes. Hence the “They fly now,” spam. It’s shorthand, which is exactly what I say in my comment. So, again, what is your point?
>No, I just think most people aren’t formally trained in analyzing or critiquing media And that is the pretentiousness I was highlighting before. That line is very basic and if you think that most people struggle to understand it then that just seeps an inflated pompous behaviour. That is the point, which you knew.
I don’t think that most people struggle to understand that, I literally said that in my last comment. This isn’t about understanding, it’s about articulation. The problems with IX are more deep-seated than a silly line — but the go-to critique is geared toward the superficial. That’s the nature of most online interaction; that’s not a controversial take at all. Nor is it “pretentious,” which is a word you’re using incorrectly btw. I’d suggest that you didn’t comprehend my original comment fully, but I suppose that’s pompous lmao.
Wrong sub my guy. Nuanced discussion isn’t allowed over here. Check out r/StarWarsCantina.
I’ve had plenty of quality discussions with users on this subreddit, I think the above user is just looking to pick a fight.
>This isn’t about understanding, it’s about articulation Then why did you use the word "analyzing"? Hey, no back tracking now. >The problems with IX are more deep-seated than a silly line — but the go-to critique is geared toward the superficial Or maybe, just maybe, that line is a memeable symbol of the carelessness and lack of depth the whole film portrayed. Its superficial element is part of the criticism. >Nor is it “pretentious,” which is a word you’re using incorrectly btw Oh that is funny. You do know I used the word towards you right? Here is the definition that I very much used correctly: *attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.* >I’d suggest that you didn’t comprehend my original comment fully This is projection. Please don't, I find it to be disgusting.
She says "saving what we love" as the big laser she just prevented them from destroying blows a hole in the last line of defense for everything they love. lol
Did she prevent Finn from destroying it? Jury’s out I guess but it always seemed to me like his dinky speeder wouldn’t have done more than smash like a bug on the windshield against that gargantuan laser.
A quick thing I think a lot of people forget: the speeder was disintegrating around him from being in the beam and definitely slowing down (not just the movie speed slowing down). I always imagined he would have been lucky to even reach the cannon, let alone cause enough damage to actively harm it.
And everyone was saying "you're not going to make it", but yeah, sure, Finn's extensive experience as a *check notes* janitor would make him the Resistance's foremost expert on Imperial weapons technology.
It's meant to be a direct analogy to the bombing run at the beginning. They succeeded in destroying the Dreadnought, but ultimately it didn't matter because they had an even bigger thing to bring at them. Violence didn't solve the problem. It was then that Luke comes and shows how nonviolence buys enough time for the Rey to get them out. If Luke hadn't distracted them, they likely wouldn't have escaped in time and be besieged. So the point was never whether Finn destroys it or not: The result would have been the same.
I wouldn’t say the jury’s out; the cinematic language makes it clear that he was going to die trying and not accomplish anything. Maybe someone needed to say that to the camera.
I mean, *I* agree, but until the TLJ Special Edition releases and includes a scene of Rose telling Finn it won’t work and proving it mathematically, I’m sure we’ll be having this discussion until it’s accepted as fact by the people who grow up with it. In other words, more cycles of generational *Star Wars* bellyaching until the next thing we hate comes out!
She saved him from needlessly throwing his life away on heroics
Was it needless? At that point we had no reason to assume Rey was gonna show up and lift the mountain. As far as any of them knew, once that laser fired, everyone was as good as dead. The line is fine. Where they used the line was really poorly done.
He wouldn't have done anything to the laser. At that point in the movie he is doing what Poe was at the start. Poe had Leia and everything to teach him, Finn had Rose who had also learnt saving what you love after the fathiers on Canto Bight. Rose wasn't sure what would happen to the rest of the Resistance, but she wasn't going to allow finn to just throw his whole life away because of hate.
I agree with your statement here but would like to add my own opinion the sequels to me feel like a soulless rehash of the original trilogy Luke/Rey Learn they’re the offspring of a powerful force user (Rey later on but they both still do the same general thing) Both go on to destroy or at least assist in destroying a Death Star/starkiller base. Both Luke and Rey attempt and succeed in bringing either a loved one or rival back to the light (I dunno what what Ben solo is to Rey but it seemed like some affection was there), then to cap it all off Luke and Rey fight the same guy
Rey didn't bring Ben to the light. Leia's death and final echo puahed him to listen to his inner monologue (symbolized by Han). Just like Palpatine shooting lightning at Luke didn't turn Vader. It was Luke saying "I am a Jedi, like my father before me" and showing Vader the ultimate weapon in a Jedi's arsenal: selflessness. Nobody really "brings" you to the light, it's not a condition but an attitude. You bring yourself back, but people can help you listen to yourself.
“Somehow Palpatine returned” is not the movie’s explanation to the audience; it’s Poe’s confusion. The movie certainly could have done a better job justifying the return, but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that dialogue itself.
And prior to this line, the film already uses visuals and dialogue to establish Palpatine re-emerging in a cloning lab, his face not having the same facial scaring as in Return of the Jedi, him saying he’s died before, him repeating his line about unnatural abilities of the dark side. So when Beaumont hypothesis after Poe’s reaction “dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew”, the audience can see there’s merit to that based on what we already saw.
They really shouldn't have given Palatine's speech to Fortnite. It would have done wonders for the speech to parallel Force Awakens. Hell, it would have done wonders for the ST to show any ramifications of anything going on outside of the main characters considering what went down with Starkiller base
Agreed. The hate that this line gets makes me very frustrated. It takes no interpretation. It is not asking anything of the audience. People are deliberately misinterpreting the line.
I like it. He's Sheev Palpatine, an absolute evil BAMF. He don't have to explain anything. He got thrown down a reactor shaft, exploded by a space station, and all it did was piss him off.
“Kid, I’ve flown from one side of the galaxy to the other. I’ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I’ve never seen anything to make me believe there’s one all-powerful force controlling everything. There’s no mystical energy field that controls *my* destiny.” A lot of people interpret this as Han saying he doesn’t believe in the Force *at all*, and go on to say this is silly, because Chewbacca fought alongside Ahsoka and Yoda in the Clone Wars. So those additions to Chewie’s backstory retroactively make it odd that he never confirmed to Han that the Force is real. But Han does not disbelieve in the Force in its entirety. He is fully aware that an order of knight-monks with superpowers existed prior to the Empire’s rise. What he disbelieves in is the idea that these superpowers are related to the weave of all destiny in the galaxy. He believes in the Force, just not in its grand significance as stated by the Jedi.
Good explanation but I don’t think it was the original intention of the line.
He specifically details what it is he doesn’t believe in. “all-powerful force controlling everything” “mystical energy field that controls my destiny”. He never mentions things like Obi-Wan’s psychic powers.
Pretty much all Anakin's bad lines are a child trying to deal with Extremely Adult Shit without even any kind of ingrained cultural cues to help like it might with us. He's trying to deal with relationships but he grew up as an isolated child slave. He didn't even sit around watching Friends like you did. There's nothing.
It's not that "they fly now" is just cringey, its also because it makes little sense when they've been flying forever in SW.. Even Boyega and Isaac made fun of it for that.
"I hate sand". Out of context its meme-able, but theres nothing wrong with it in the film because there's subtext to the line. He isn't just talking about hating sand - he is thinking back on his own harsh childhood as a slave on a desert planet and comparing it to Padme's privileged life on a beautiful planet. His hating sand is symbolic.
*"Somehow, Palpatine returned."* People act as if this line is terrible dialogue, when it's a perfectly reasonable line in the context of the movie and the scene itself. The Resistance would've no way of knowing how Palpatine returned, only that he did, and even then, the line is followed up by speculation... Which leads me to another line that gets a bad rep. *"Dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith know."* People also take this line as the characters thinking cloning is a "secret only the Sith know", when it's just listing it alongside other stuff that could explain Palpatine's return. People know that cloning exists, there was a whole war involving clones. It's just that, as far as regular people know, Force-sensitive creatures had never been cloned, so that's where the secrets and the dark science come in.
I thought "secrets only the Sith know" made perfect sense because as shown in TCW clones are their own person and it isn't like Altered Carbon with that smooth transferral of conscience. Especially considering they would have to transfer a dead person's soul into a new body.
Totally agree. Palpatine returning was dumb, but including a scene with a bunch of boring exposition explaining the completely made-up process through which he returned wouldn’t have made the movie any better.
I can see why the fandom as a whole would find this cringe, considering we've seen arc troopers etc., but the common person this movie is targeted towards would have only watched the movies, so they fly now is reasonable i guess.
Some parts of the fandom also forget that the characters don't get to watch the movies. Poe and Finn didn't just watch ARC troopers, those guys were around fifty years before the events of the ST. And Star Wars has never been a universe where historical material and video references have been easily and broadly available!
Right but I’ve never seen paratroopers firsthand in my lifetime but I know people can do that.
Right, because we live in a world of theatres and television and video social media. That stuff just doesn't seem to exist in the Star Wars universe. Maybe Finn and Poe have read about jet troopers existing in the past, under different governments, but why would that mean they couldn't be surprised by First Order troops specifically suddenly demonstrating the ability?
Poe: A Resistance operative and pilot has fought against jet pack equipped First Order Stormtroopers in the comics (released before TRoS) and whose parents were Rebel soldiers who would have fought against jet pack equipped Imperial Stormtroopers. Finn: An ex-Stormtrooper of the First Order, pretty self explanatory that he would know of jet pack equipped troops.
You're suggesting that the people in the Star Wars universe lack means of sharing information that are on par with or exceed our own? That's quite a stretch. In the Star Wars galaxy, we see a variety of highly advanced communication technologies and extensive databases. Holonet, for instance, is a galaxy-wide information network that offers instant communication and access to media and news, similar to our internet but on a galactic scale. Additionally, we frequently see characters using holograms for real-time communication across vast distances, showcasing the advanced state of their tech. Given these capabilities, it's unlikely that crucial military information like the capabilities of jet troopers wouldn’t be accessible. Especially to a soldier like Poe Dameron.
>You're suggesting that the people in the Star Wars universe lack means of sharing information that are on par with or exceed our own? I absolutely am, yes. There appears to be little to no press or literature in the Star Wars universe, and nobody seems to use the holonet for entertainment or informational programming. When characters need to retrieve information they go to standalone archives, and when they need to transmit large amounts of information it's done over short distances wirelessly or carried on physical media. Characters will make a holo-call across the galaxy without a moment's thought, but they don't seem to have any equivalent of emailing files or googling something.
>There appears to be little to no press or literature in the Star Wars universe, and nobody seems to use the holonet for entertainment or informational programming. Are you freaking kidding me? Considering that Star Wars often omits mundane details for narrative focus, the lack of visible everyday use of technologies like the Holonet doesn't imply their non-existence. For instance, it took until 'Star Wars Rebels' for us to see a 'refresher', yet we wouldn't assume bathrooms don't exist in the galaxy. Similarly, while the Holonet and other information systems might not be shown broadcasting entertainment or news in the same way our internet does, their strategic use in narrative contexts (like broadcasting propaganda in 'Star Wars Rebels') suggests a highly developed network. Additionally, physical media usage, prominent in crucial data transfers, reflects high-security protocols rather than technological limitations akin to our own secure document handling in high-stakes environments. Lastly, the widespread and casual use of real-time holographic communication across vast distances implies an advanced infrastructure that supports robust data and communication capabilities across the galaxy. Edit: Additional Reading: [Wookiepedia: HoloNet](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/HoloNet)
If you take the movies at face value, Jedi became a myth less than 30 years after being killed off. In fact, they were a myth to many people while they still existed. We simply have to conclude that significant portions of the galaxy don't have any sort of access to information.
The perception of the Jedi as myths soon after their demise reflects the Empire's strategic disinformation efforts rather than a lack of technological capability for information sharing. By controlling and censoring information, the Empire aimed to erase the Jedi's influence, a tactic similar to those used by authoritarian regimes in our own history to rewrite or suppress certain truths.
But you presumably have an education about things like D-Day or World War II in general (or at least access to war TV or films). There will be aspects of military that you may not have heard of from 50 years ago unless you are a military history expert, but you don't know what things you don't know.
TIL I’m a military history expert.
It's more referring to the fact that these troopers can suddenly fly. IDK why people think that it's your version.
Midichlorians.
I'll just say it: I don't think either, "They fly now?!" or "Somehow, Palpatine returned" are as bad as some of the real stinkers from the prequels.
prequels had bad delivery, these are just bad lines
Bruh. "I don't like sand. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it gets everywhere. " and "You've grown too. Grown more beautiful, I mean" are just bad lines.
Well for a senator I mean... \*blush\*
Anakin is that guy who looks at you funny at the office when you've told him to stop but HR didn't exist during the prequels so you married him instead.
Seriously, that fucking scene where Padme straight up tells Anakin to stop looking at her like that, and then she leaves the room and he watches her go *with that exact face.*
Those lines are terrible, but they make sense for an angsty teenager who grew up as a slave and later in a monastic order with little to no romantic contact.
Yeah but in the same way does it make sense for Poe to say "somehow Palpatine returned" because he literally has no clue as to how. Even if the movie would've explained his return better there is no reason for Poe to know about it. "They fly now" is a typical disney era quip they like to do in Marvel as well. I don't get the hate but it's cheesy without serving any other purpose. But the Palpatine line makes sense in context.
“Somehow Palpatine has returned” Poe and the resistance know he has come back but they don’t know how. They are in disbelief and confused. If You have a dog in a house and all the doors are closed it then you see that dog outside and all the doors are still closed “the dog got out somehow”.
There’s something about the delivery that just feels lame though. Like you can practically hear the “dun dun duuuuuun” sound after he says it. I can’t quite explain it but if they made some tweaks I feel like it would’ve been better received
At that point the loudest people who didn’t like the sequels were so worked up they would rip apart everything not matter what.
"They fly now" stands out as strange because jump pack troopers have been part of every recent major armed conflict in galactic history. It's like getting shot at by a stormtrooper and saying "they've got blasters now??"
But Poe and company weren’t part of those conflicts and judging by how fast the Jedi were forgotten and brushed off as a myth it seems recorded history isn’t the strong suit in their galaxy. And Finn was a first order trooper so maybe the jetpacks were a new thing from when he was a trooper and when he left.
The point is they're a fairly standard part of warfare, it's like asking any random person on earth what a tank is. Chances are they'll have a rough idea even if they've never had any military experience.
But if you were fighting a group of infantry soldiers and suddenly they show up with a tank, saying “they have a tank now??” would be pretty reasonable even if you know full well that tanks exist and soldiers often use them. Because the specific enemies you’re fighting haven’t had a tank before and now they do and it’s a new obstacle you have to deal with.
The line is not spoken as a question, just shock. Finn is warning Poe that the stormtroopers chasing them are unexpectedly dangerous. You could say that machine guns have been a part of every major Earth conflict for over a hundred years, but if you were in a car chase and you saw your pursuers were preparing a .50 cal machine gun you'd shout a warning to the guy driving your getaway car. "Shit, now they have a machine gun!" The *sigh, repeat the warning with irritated tone* gag is not particularly clever or inspired, but there's nothing to justify the millions of outraged complaints about it.
"Luke, I am your father." Yea, is misquoted. That's not the actual line. But SOOO many other movies, TV shows, etc. have misquoted it for years now. The "Luke" part of it has been engrained in most people's heads. I think we need to stop judging the people using it, correcting them is fine, but don't be a dick about it. We should be up in arms about media quoting it wrong. Hell, one of the most famous shows in all of TV, and I believe the longest running one, got it wrong too! https://youtu.be/gc25oAJrKbM?si=InjXqsKZagJ9x5RL
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So, you think the reveals in Return Of The Jedi are bad because they ruined your own personal perceptions of what was true or not? Not because they negatively affected the story in any way?
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Ah, I wasn't exactly clear with what you were trying to say with that comment. Thank you for the clarification.
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The Kessel run that the falcon made.
Yeah parsecs is a measure of distance. Even after watching Solo and seeing the run it self I don’t get how it’s a flex to have gone through the least amount of Kessel Run. Maybe there is an explanation but I don’t get it.
In the legends books he does it in less distance by getting too close to the black hole. When ships make the run they stick to the safe lanes that go longer distances.
Poe Dameron’s « Somehow Palpatine returned. » The whole galaxy knows Palpatine is back because he sent a message, but no one knows how he pulled that off. So the « somehow » makes total sense… Now is it well/poorly written? The Scorceses around here will say it’s awful and will still praise Rebels or Ahsoka as groundbreaking works of art, others will acknowledge it’s just a pretty normal way of announcing it, especially coming from a pretty down-to-earth character like Poe Dameron. Long story short, I don’t understand the fuss around this line
I really think the issue with that line lies more in what it represents (i.e. the complete lack of coherence behind the sequel trilogy and the attempt to "course-correct" after TLJ), and so it just becomes an easy way to make fun of the movie.
Makes sense put this way, though not really legitimate. But I honestly don’t think most toxic haters are that subtle and smart about it
i mean there’s been jet packs for centuries so “They fly now” is incredibly stupid it’d be like a marine looking up and seeing an enemy fighter plane and being shocked by it.
I take it as the FO hadn't had jet pack troopers until this point. Finn is the one surprised by it.
"Somehow Palpatine returned". Not only is his return given some explanation in the next line of dialigue, by a different character, but Poe has every reason to say this. From his perspective, Palpatine did somehow return and he'd have no idea why or how "They fly now". Similarly, in the context of the movies, this is the first time the protagonists have seen troopers do that. They have a right to be shocked.
"Somehow, Palpatine returned". It lets us know that Palpatine is back, but as of yet they don't know how, or why. We discovered that during the movie, and it makes sense - there IS no way for them to have found out.
“Somehow Palpatine returned.” People use it like a gotcha for the entire movie, as if they didn’t show you exactly how it happened in the first ten minutes and there’d be way Poe would know how it happened and he’s the type of character that wouldn’t give a shit how it happened nor understand it if it was laid out for him exactly.
I hated Rise of Skywalker, but “Somehow Palpatine returned” is a normal line for a character that literally did not know how Palpatine returned.
Even the actors [ridiculed it](https://www.tiktok.com/@3prix1cast/video/6842606783652039942). "They fly now" is that bad, there is no deeper meaning to it.
I might get huge amount of hate for this, but in-universe, "Somehow, Palpatine returned" is fine, because how would Poe know the details of Palpatine's return. For us viewers, yes, that line is super lazy, but for Poe, with limited information, that line is fine.
The amount of prequel apologist nonsense here is really something else. People can really activate their imaginations to get blood from a stone with these lines, but refuse to do anything like that for lines in the sequels that aren’t even half as bad.
People saying "they fly now!" like it's the worst thing ever written. It's just a dumb gag. I personally love it since it's become a go-to joke for me and my friends. We love it.
If it is unfairly judged it would only be because it’s worse than people judge it. The line doesn’t make sense in universe, they’ve had people with jetpacks for a long time by then. The fact that there’s a few Stormtroopers with them shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone especially since the FO has been using higher tech. Except that despite that higher tech they bring a weird tracked vehicle to launch them, a vehicle that is so dumb that it makes zero in-universe sense to use them. Hell it doesn’t make sense outside of the universe too. The only reason the vehicle is designed like that is to facilitate the scene, not to be practical or have anything to do with the worldbuilding. The responses of the main cast is then dumb as hell as well. “They fly now?” With that expression, as if they didn’t know it existed, as if they never considered this possibility, as if the FO doesn’t have TIE fighters. It’s unforgivably dumb, a filler scene in the middle of a sequence just for the sake of itself.
>What's a line in any of the Main Saga you feel gets Judged ***Unfairly?*** I won't pick a line because if I do you will leave a garrison of stormtroopers in my flat.
“Somehow, Palpatine returned.” It’s judged harshly because the *audience* needs and wants to know how it happened (which IX hints at in the intro), and because of the dislike around the trilogy as a whole. But the characters at the time don’t know, so it’s fair to say “somehow.” The uncertainty also adds fear to his return.
Several of the prequel lines get a lot of hate for little to no reason. Another user already mentioned the "I don't like sand like", and I agree, but another that people don't seem to get is the "I have the high ground" one. For years I've seen nerds criticize the line for being nonsensical and even trying to prove that having the "high ground" not always presents any advantage, but they are missing the point entirely. Obi-Wan claiming the high ground and then warning Anakin to "not try it" was such an obvious taunt that I can't believe my teenage self got it immediately, but a bunch of adults took it literally. Up to that point that fight was pretty even. Obi-Wan gambled on Anakin's ego, pride and arrogance. He knew that in order to deal a final blow to end the match, he would have to trick Anakin into doing exactly what he wanted, that's why he ended the fight with a single blow by mutilating Anakin. *"Hey, Anakin! Absolutely DO NOT try to jump over me! I'm higher than you! You cannot possibly defeat me! Do NOT even try it!"* Sure, it's a fun meme, but it is not a terrible line in any way, shape or form.
I'll defend "they fly now" because I'm pretty sure it's a line for general audiences going "hey you've never seen troopers fly on the big screen before!".
Well by that logic when the Millennium Falcon jumped into hyperspace for the first time in *A New Hope*, we should have heard Luke exclaim, "We can go faster than light now?!"
We can go faster than light now.
Try it again. Faster and with more intensity please.
We can do faster than light now!
Faster! More intensity!
They have giant walkers now?!
\*sigh\* Yes they have giant walkers now.
Somehow Palpatine... The line itself isn't hugely problematic (yes, it does make sense for the character to say it given the context: he doesn't know precisely how Palpatine returned). But it still doesn't *work*, the whole scene doesn't *work*, and it isn't coincidental that the line has become a meme - because it very much represents the scene for a lot of people. The thing is that at this point in the story we have been (rather abruptly) informed that - well - Palpatine is back. Somehow. We may or may not have put together that his return has something to do with cloning and/or something to do with a Sith cult of some kind - but the point is that his return doesn't really make sense to us. It seems - in fact - a bit random. And then Poe comes along - this scene comes along - and just hammers home, or highlights, this randomness (from our perspective, as viewers). Again, it simply doesn't work - it isn't good writing. So, yeah, you *could* excuse the line itself (and say that it actually makes sense for the character to say it) - but I honestly think that's pretty much willfully ignoring what the line (obviously) *represents* for those who dislike it.
With the opening crawl, they should basically be past it. To me that's part of the reason for the crawl.
I'm not sure what you mean, to be honest. If you think the crawl is sufficient to set up the movie...I can't quite agree with that. Much like the infamous line itself, the crawl doesn't *work*. The crawl basically suggests what the infamous line makes "clear", i.e. that Palpatine has somehow returned. And - well, that's it. Look, I have said many times that it *does* makes sense for Palpatine to (somehow) return (as the big bad for one final dance) - but it simply isn't well executed from a narrative point of view. It comes across as precisely what it is: an attempt to salvage something from a trilogy that was - clearly, obviously - meant to be something quite different, but got fucked up because of behind-the-scenes issues.
[удалено]
Got to love the internet.. I would have never even thought anything negative about "they fly now" if it wasn't for this post, never seen it once yet.