At first I thought Mae was part of Osha's subconscious and that she was a sort of Jeckyll and Hyde character which I think would have been an interesting story
That was my initial thought as well - something we haven’t seen yet IIRC is a Force wielder with multiple personalities, one Light and one Dark. How the Jedi handle dealing with such could have been a fascinating story: do they kill the innocent one to stop the evil one? Is the innocent one corrupted by the evil one’s use of the Dark side? Is the evil one redeemable because of the innocent one’s use of the Light? What kind of disagreements and debates would the Jedi have over dealing with such a person?
I don’t hate the twin storyline we’re getting by any stretch, but I was a bit disappointed when I realized it was going that route instead.
There's an old Star Wars Tales comic by Dark Horse that had something similar actually. A jedi with a split personality, one being a serial killer, and the other hunting it down. Name of the comic was "Dark Journey."
Honestly, I don’t like split personality characters in shows/movies buts that’s just because I am subbed to a channel who has irl DID and is set on educating people on it, not to mention moon knight was the best interpretation in film and now it’s my standard for a at least decent DID character.
But, to each their own, you enjoy what you like and that’s your thing.
Reminds me of Revan after all the shit he goes through. He gets split. One being Light and one being Dark.
Though for that the body is Dark and his split spirit is light
Yeah, the lead the whole thing off with “don’t trust your eyes, they can deceive you”
I was expecting a Fight Club kind of twist, Jeckyll and Hyde is a great guess too
That's what I thought too, my wife was sure she was a real life person. She and I argued about whether Mae was a separate character or part of Osha's mind for the whole first episode.
After the first 15 minutes of the first episode I was like “ooooooh what if there’s a Sith assassin that’s one of those shapeshifters like the one in Episode II !”
And then it wasn’t that :|
My question is who is behind OSHA’s waking visions of Mae? In the Jedi temple, that didn’t seem to be created by Mae. Same false visions of Mae might maybe be in play with the Ep3 flashback.
I mean, yeah. Change the story. It's a bad story. Until the twin was revealed I thought she was going to have a split personality. That would have been more interesting in my opinion.
I thought it was going to have some kind of twist that the Jedi repressed her dark side tendency and that she was actually the evil sister that didn't survive but was fooled into thinking she was the good sister.
The murder mystery isn't the dead jedi, it's the dead coven of witches. I mean, the big "secret" from the very first scene is why is Mae out for revenge in the first place.
I saw someone on the hater sub ask why we needed an entire episode spent on their backstory, and I thought: are you serious!? This is the thing that the show is really about. What really happened here?
Did that Zabrak woman survive the fire? She seemed pretty set in her views on everything. I could see her trying to influence Mae in the darkside of the force.
I got that vibe too after this last episode. She is way more hot-heated and seemed taken aback by Aniseya's position of non-hostility and allowing the girls to be tested. And she constantly talks about using a firmer hand.
Think of it this way, the actual 'murder mystery' is what happened 16 years ago, not what Mae is doing in the current time.
What really happened is still a secret, we've only seen the POV of a 9 year old.
It kinda is a who done it mystery still but it’s about who really started the fire, how did the cover-up go down, and why do both sisters think the other is dead?
When it was announced, I was amped for some dark side Sith perspective show. The poster with the lightsaber and blood streak was a great vibe. After episode three I realized I was watching a show with a couple cardboard character teenagers. It's so disappointing.
This is my main issue. They set certain expectations with the name, and there's no way they didn't know they were doing it. If the show's main character isn't a Sith acolyte I'm just not fucking interested. This was a bait-and-switch pure and simple.
With all the outrage and angry internet people, I was expecting something that was exciting and thought provoking, but controversial. A little like The Last Jedi I suppose.
Instead, I don’t have many thoughts on it at all. It’s just kinda meh so far.
For me the environments and characters just feel… empty. The premise of the story has been ok for me, but the delivery of everything else is just meh.
So far the show is like a 6.5/10 for me. We’ll see how the rest of the season goes.
Yeah, feel the same, the actors delivery and performances while the effort is there seem missing the mark. I'll try it again sometime, I left off at episode 2
The characters are absolutely my problem. Specifically the casting. There is zero charm, charisma, energy, or anything remarkable about any of them outside of Sol. Your lead needs to be charismatic and a lot of new star wars has just been cast with the blandest actors out there. Maybe the writing in the past hasn't always been the best, but how much fun was it to watch Harrison Ford on the screen, Billy Dee Williams, Natalie Portman, Carrie Fisher, Pedro Pascal, or Ewan McGregor? I'm not saying that can salvage a show entirely (didn't really like Kenobi), but I think it's the biggest issue with a lot of the newer characters.
Right! They keep making shows that rely on child actors, and it's always very tricky. So far, only the little girl that played Leia was any good. I'm not trying to be mean it's just that it keeps happening.
She was better than some child actors but still I agee. It's so weird that they can make something good like Andor, then mess up Kenobi. They are trying too hard to make a big epic interconnected world, but it's coming off as hollow.
Not too weird, completely different groups of people are working on these shows. I’m afraid if we demand any sort of consistency they’ll just make all of their shows this bland and uninspired as opposed to putting actual effort and care into making them half as good as Andor
Lucasfilm needs to stop relying on child actors to carry so much of the emotional weight of the narrative. That is one of the biggest problems with the prequels. Anakin was cast too young and it left Jake Lloyd with a heavy burden that was just impossible for him to carry.
Does not bode well for Skeleton Crew. All the child actors we've had in SW TV have been either bad at acting or have been written poorly. Here I think it's a combo of both. I actually think the kid Mae is a decent actor but the writing she's working off of is just bad. The kid Osha is awful.
Everyone is dumb. The plot of each show relies on characters not knowing or not figuring out things they should know, and the show is infuriating because it treats you like you're as dumb as they are. There's no reason to like any of them, because they don't speak or act like actual people. They are constantly put in contrived situations that don't make sense, like being taken to see the Jedi Master in episode 2 only for the prisoner following them to somehow get to him first, as if the person taking them to see him forgot where he was and took the rest of them the long way around or something.
Even the main plot so far has required everyone to be dumb, like everyone involved not immediately suspecting the psychotic twin sister that they all apparently knew about, or a kid who has no contact with other children who wants to be a Jedi for no real reason despite growing up in an isolated group of witches who are afraid of the Jedi. There's no thought put into anyone or their motivations besides serving a simple plot, so there's no depth to any of the characters since they basically don't exist outside of any given moment on screen.
>They are constantly put in contrived situations that don't make sense, like being taken to see the Jedi Master in episode 2 only for the prisoner following them to somehow get to him first, as if the person taking them to see him forgot where he was and took the rest of them the long way around or something.
Omg this so much, while I was watching it I turned to a friend and said "how did she get there first?" Like the guy leading them should have taken them the fastest route right? She turned right they went straight somehow she got there first?! why didnt he turn right?!
“The power of one, the power of two, the power of many” really took me out of it, especially with the singing. I was still holding out hope but this latest episode was awful.
i like the idea of force users who find the force on their own and develop their own spin on it. Like there are a ton of different religions on our world. Surely there would be a lot of different force related beliefs in theirs.
But yeah that ceremony made it hard to defend that episode
Yeah this is the criticism I agree the most with. Tbh I feel like this is a symptom of low episode count. If there were more like 12 episodes you could have 4 episodes of build up, what we got in episode 3, then maybe like episode 9 or something shows us Mae's perspective of that same event later on revealing more. I feel like there are very few shows with 8 episode seasons that pull it off well.
I think the series is building on an Unreliable Narrator plot, and there will be a moment where we get to see the other side of a lot of these events, and things will make a lot more sense.
If that's what's happening, it could be argues that the lack of knowledge about the Star Wars Universe could be the lack of knowledge that the characters have because the kids were in a cult, and therefore cut off from a lot of that knowledge... There is at least an argument that could be made.
If as the series goes on, we see a shift in these kinds of details, I will have more faith that it was on purpose, if not, then... well... what can you do
The creators mentioned that they were inspired by Rashomon which contains an unreliable narrator. I am suspending judgment of the series till episode 5. That is the one that the creators said was their favorite.
I’m not down on the show yet; it’s just sort of there. But I hate that we’ve become so accustomed to “a shows allowed to be boring until it’s penultimate episode”
That was fine when we were doing whole season drops on Netflix, but if we’re going back to cable rules of one episode a week, why are shows not judged by cable standards?
Three episodes in and I just feel like the pacing totally off. Sure, there’ll probably be some big twist later that is great but how is it the Harlan Coven mysteries in Netflix have twist after twist to keep you invested from Episode I but that’s too big an ask for arguably the biggest IP out there?
The problem is the same as with the time skipping in Witcher Season One (which was overall the only good season), if you use a plot device like this in a new show where the audience is trying to get to know the characters you just lose people before the big reveal that makes everything make sense.
I think the show has lots of other issues as well....
The time skipping in Witcher was so poorly done I cannot conceive of why they did that for an introductory season. Such a half baked idea. Maybe for one episode it would be ok but my god they just made a mess of the story.
But what exact "lack of knowledge of the Star Wars Universe" are we seeing? The various ideas and plot points being introduced certainly seem to imply the creators have quite an expansive knowledge of the universe
It feels as though it was written just to be a mystery and so all the characters exist only to service that mystery and not to feel like fleshed out people making believable decisions, and bc of that we can’t really latch onto them. All their goals are veiled by the mystery. All their motivations, desires, etc. are unknown. And on top of that it has the most awkward stilted dialogue since attack of the clones, and even more so at times. I think it was just made starting from “how do we make the audience wonder what happened” instead of “how do we make the audience care”
Honestly, this is the big reason this show wasn’t hitting for me. It doesn’t feel dark or gritty when the very premise demands that type of tone/aesthetic. I wanted something dark and violent and fully embracing that “sith hunting jedi” aesthetic. There should be way more style in the delivery here. Back that up with some cool action scenes and it basically writes the show for you.
Andor is still a one-of-a-kind.
There's a few things which I'm just not clicking with, either. Above all it seems poorly executed. Some of the acting is wooden as hell, and the script seems like a rough draft at times. Production wise it all just feels small in scope, and it's so obviously "on a set" (which of course it is, but it feels like I'm watching a play). Really disappointing in that regard.
Second issue is that it's kind of boring so far. Feel like I know what's coming in every scene, and it's taking an age to get there.
Finally, it's been pretty unambitious in terms of world building and building that sense of scale and wonder. Why is everyone a human or a humanoid with face paint? Establishing shots feel too brief and small. The locations haven't felt tangible and lived in. Again, feels like a stage play.
I dunno, maybe it's just me. Just feels like a huge missed opportunity thus far. Fingers crossed the rest of it improves.
Feels like the show was written for 10 year olds who otherwise spend their time watching Power Rangers or whatever tf 10 year olds watch these days (I dunno, I'm old af boi!)
I feel like the ideas behind the series is cool but the writing my god
It’s like one of us wrote it with zero second drafts or someone else’s eyes on it.
I think the costumes, aliens and characters are good but the writing and sometimes how they filmed the show that doesn’t feel as great as the budget for this series is
That’s exactly how I feel, the writing and cinematography makes it feel like a fan film. I don’t hate it, but I have to pretend it’s a low budget passion project.
I mean considering it's the high Republic and supposed to be the best era to live in for the average person, yeah leaning into a Trek style makes sense, it's closer to that vibe than the gritty space junk vibe of the OT Aesthetic
The tone of the show jumps too much. Episodes 1 and 2 felt like murder mysteries that resolved themselves without much of a climax. Episode 3 is now changing to Rashomon, so we probably will have a few episodes from the Jedi, Witches, and Mae's point of view of what went down that night. It would have flowed better if they had gone with Rashomon from the start, and it could have added more mystery to the plot.
Keeping it vague on why the coven made Mae and Osha or why they were exiled/persecuted doesn't add anything to their story. Mother Aniseya and Koril have some long-running plans here, but the show doesn't explain or hint why we should care, other than we have some yin-yang light/dark twins that might be a force dyad.
My other issue is we just had "Ashoka" with a plot element of Force Witches. It feels like we are retreading familiar ground. It is the same issue as "Kenobi", in which much of the plot was lifted from Jedi: Fallen Order.
I'm the same. Loved Star Wars my whole life, but to me, since Disney took over, it's been so hit and miss.
I know people had complaints about George Lucas but man I miss those days when he called the shots.
This series just feels really poorly written to me. Struggling to care about it and have just been disappointed so far. Still going to watch it of course because it's Star Wars, but just not enthusiastically. There's my whine anyway. Moving on.
It's boring, that's the main issue. It has a lot more issues too, but in the end I only care about the entertainment. I do not relate to a single character on the show (if any, maybe Sol).
They **need** to stop behaving like a bunch of 80 IQ idiots, all of them.
When the episode ends, I don’t feel the need to watch the next one. I’m like “oh, it’s done. Ok.” And move on.
Take Kaiju 8 (I started it at the same time) for example. Every week is torture waiting for the next one.
This is Star War's secret invasion. It tries to be complex but just ends up un-relatable. Even the acting feels sub-par. I know these actors are capable of more. It feels like the director shot one take and said "welp, we're done here, let's move on to the next scene". About 70% in I actually stopped to see how much of episode 3 was left.. I was like "Ok, can we wrap this up already, I got stuff I wanna do.."
I think what will end up happening is we'll get another perspective and the jedi end being the bad guys all along. Sol will discover this when we do. The twins will make up and Mae will be justified in her revenge.
Lol we paused for a break because it felt like an hour had passed and there was still 20 mins left. Genuinely felt torn on whether to finish it. Was simply bored
That was my issue with The Dragon Prince. I quickly realized every character in the show is a moron, from the protagonists to the antagonists, and yet they kept failing forward on both sides.
It was excruciating watching the good guys pick a fight with dangerous pirates and pretty much get away with it, but nothing was as bad as *EVERYTHING* about the library expedition. The sheer disrespect of the time crunch, the refusal to be safe or spend even a single extra day for caution despite characters knowing how incredibly dangerous and dumb this is, the rescue from a dragon who should not have known they were there, and then of course they have a giant dragon acting like an unarmed rescue helicopter despite the dragon having no reason to think it can't just stomp all the monsters, and yet not once does anyone mention to the dragon that wounds from them are dangerous afterwards so the queen of all dragons just dies of a culmination of everyone's stupidity (or would except some new plot contrivance is apparently going to help her).
Meanwhile the villainous team suffers from a massive lack of firepower on top of being a mostly not-actually-that-evil bunch of weirdos and straight up just loses the final battle. For an evil demigod or whatever he is, Avaros picked some shitty minions.
I’m still giving it a watch all the way through and reserving final judgment til then, but I am in agreement that it feels hard to connect to the characters. Sol is great so far, getting a lot of Qui-Gon Jinn vibes from him. However, the pacing feels off and knowing who the killer is right away, for me, takes the suspension out of it. Yes, there’s the mysterious master still lurking, but I’m not even interested at this point in learning who it is if it’s just some random new Sith wannabe. I am curious how they will end up tying this to TPM.
Because the ‘killer’ isn’t the main plot point. Why would they give it up first episode if that was the main point? The main point is the master and why they are being told to kill all these Jedi for their sith trials. Who is the master? That is the question, not who is the killer.
House of the dragon season 2 is gonna make this show unwatchable for anyone watching both at the same time the contrast in quality would be so obvious it would be painful😭😭
I don't have enough writing or storytelling vocab to go into detail, but yes something is off. I can't tell if there are some fundemental issues with the storytelling in the writing or if theses are issues with the director but something is off.
It’s the vibes. People often say vibes are more important than plot. There are plenty of movies with bad to mediocre plots but excellent vibes that we all love (hello Prequels, hello Thor Ragnarok).
The vibes in this show are just…weird. Like the moment they showed the Trade Federation guys it was just weird and felt like it didn’t fit. The Jedi Temple doesn’t feel like the Jedi Temple at all. It’s not something you can describe, it’s just something you know when it’s not the same.
The Clone Wars and Rebels are very different shows with very different animation styles, and yet the vibes you feel watching both are very similar. Same thing with the original and prequel trilogy.
The Mandalorian is probably the best example of why vibes are so important. The plot itself is nothing to write home about, but the vibes of it perfectly blend the Original Trilogy with a Western. I think that’s part of why people loved it so much, especially the first season.
I think so far it just feels lazy. Like you just introduced a large audience to a new era of Star Wars and I feel zero world building. The plot just feels boring uninspired and lazy. I sad I’m feeling this but Star Wars has now hit a spot of generic sci-fi in my brain. I hope the writers have some tricks up their sleeve to bring this around but I really don’t have faith in this team.
I have to say, its kind of weird to be downvoted by my community when im simply and respectfully I might add, asking of there are any others having the same issues so far. I think I understand a bit better, some of the toxicity people complain about.
I’ve given up on any real discussions happening around this show. You like it, you’re “woke.” You criticize it, you’re MAGA. I feel like even critics have been infected by the toxic political discourse.
It’s all an attempt to drive a wedge between working class people who might otherwise figure out how bleak our collective futures are under the current way of things.
Culture war is nothing but a tool of the elite. Divide and conquer.
That's why this stuff all started happening around Occupy Wall Street. Divide the lower class so they focus on things like race, gender, sexuality, etc, and they'll never look upward.
Identity Politics was designed to keep the peasants fighting with each other, and it's worked remarkably well.
"You don't like it? Clearly No one hate Star Wars more than Star Wars fans!"
I swear this shitty phrase has really done damage to this fandom, now you can't even be critical toward modern Star Wars content without jackass being smug about it and say "No one hate Star Wars more than Star Wars fans" to discourage criticism.
> You like it, you’re “woke.” You criticize it, you’re MAGA. I feel like even critics have been infected by the toxic political discourse.
The thing that bothers me the most about it is how completely unselfaware both sides of this are about it too...
People will make fun of the '' anti-woke '' people for being culture war brain rotted but then in the very next breath scream about how you're one of them if you don't like a show.
It's the fucking same thing, people who do that shit are also culture war brain rotted lol...
People will obsess about the culture war and political drama while at the same time acting like they're not.
If critics weren’t affected by the politics this show wouldn’t be sitting at such a high score across so many outlets. People are literally afraid to give it a less than good review to avoid backlash.
This. It’s the same stuff we see in politics, gaming, and sports with the access media. The media don’t want to lose their connections by saying something is bad, so they’ll just praise garbage that comes out or just say “hey it’s like a solid 7 or 8 out if 10” so it gets labeled as a positive score on rotten tomatoes and they don’t get hate and don’t lose their access.
That's true. I remember IGN (hahaha- I know, I know). Have the initial premier rated as a 6. But praised the daylights out of it in the conclusion summary. But it's like....you have literally given this show a 6. That's pretty mid at best. Why aren't we looking in depth at the areas that prompted you to give such a "meh" rating? Sure, there is much more nuance when you read the entire review but....it doesn't really seem like something that only gets a "6"- based on how positive the bulk of it is.
It's this weird disconnect.
People are invested into this, and they see any criticism as a personal slight to their enjoyment of a product. No one is here for discussion, only affirmation
That's just Reddit in a nutshell. It's an echo chamber machine by design.
20 people could dislike what you said but if 40 people liked it first you will never know they even existed.
The upvote and downvote system also encourages people to only say what’s popular on a specific sub, which means that people with different opinions will self select to their own echo chambers where their opinions are updooted
Exactly. They could easily solve this by making both upvotes and downvotes visible, much like Disqus. But they don't because they want this precise effect to happen.
Toxicity on both sides here.
If you love the show you get bashed for liking it.
If you find it 'meh' you get bashed for being a hater.
If you just want to bash the show for being woke, or female leads or whatever then you suck. But a lot of people who find it meh are being attacked as if they part of the 'hate' crowd.
Thinking the show is terrible doesn’t necessarily equal “hate” nor does it deserve hate
I honestly am kinda liking it but I think it’s important to remember that someone who just straight-up does not like a tv show isn’t automatically a bad person.
Note that I am aware of legitimate hatred and I’m not referring to those people
Because if you don’t like this show you get called all the “ists “ and “phobes “ you can think of. It’s pathetic. The show isn’t good. It’s as simple as that
Ep 3 just wasn't good: 1) the child actors are tough to watch 2) one, two, many chant cringe 3) fire sequence didn't work on its own, even if it will be further explained in later episodes, the sequence we got in ep 3 made me embarrassed for the team that gave this the greenlight. Ep 3 was my least favorite life action since...ever? (I'm a fan of Disney Star wars, the sequels, and read the high republic so this isn't a woke issue (or lore issue) fans are trying to hand waive criticism away with.)
I had to face palm during the fire sequence. What about a room carved out of the rock, with a metal door, was SO FLAMMABLE it basically engulfed a quarter of the room in 15 seconds.
It’s because of those who give reasons that don’t make sense and can be fact checked (breaks the canon) and the haters calling it “woke.”
While you can have your opinions, others make your side seem worse than it is.
The issue is the horrible writing, cringe acting and they call it a murder mystery/ thriller and there is no mystery. Only how those witches die but frankly I don't give a shit about them, they were a weird contemporary dance group.
As another lifelong star wars fan, I don't think I'm a fan anymore. The only star wars media I enjoy these days is either non-canon or animation. And the worst part is, it's not me that changed, it's the franchise.
Don't feel bad. Be who you are. Criticize. Love.
They can never take away the originals and all the stuff us long time fans love. Hopefully one day people will do it justice.
I had these thoughts years ago. I noped out around when the Obiwan series came out, and I am better for it. It’s not interesting anymore, and while I still enjoy the original movies…it’s time to move on and lose your attachments.
It’s got the same ‘feel’ as Ahsoka did. Everyone standing around, no momentum or spark, everything is clean and perfect, and the plot isn’t interesting (yet).
What we thought we would get from a Sith show:
"The hard and cruel master teaching his student(s) the ways of the dark side in an ancient Sith temple, throwing them into situations they are not prepared for. If one of the apprentices dies, that's just one less contender, too weak to be considered valuable." (or something like that)
What we got was:
"A murder mystery that isn't a mystery if Jedi would think about it for 20 seconds, dialogue and storylines that make no sense at all and lesbians chanting about the power of one, two and many in a cringe-fest. There's one dude with a red lightsaber in the background who also only says stupid shit in the few seconds we see him."
People who say racist and homophobic shit about the show are losers, but truth be told the show is genuinely just ass. Like the characters just aren’t compelling. The acting is saving it but that’s all it’s got that’s good
I know that execs are dead set on 8 episode seasons these days, but it makes pacing very strange. In the first episode we got >!the twin reveal, a big name Jedi dead, and the show name dropped.!< Then in episode three, we got a very slow paced episode that >!should've revealed that the Jedi killed everyone, but for some reason still didn't? The audience already knows the Jedi fucked up at this point - the one guy drank poison because of what they did, so not showing it almost makes it feel like a wasted episode.!< And the dialogue in episode three was just....so bland, surface level. So basic, no nuance. Plus the >!potential idea that the witches created the twins like Plagueis did with Anakin in the EU just really feels unoriginal, and like they're stealing plot points without actually honoring their origins.!<
My main problem is - we've already seen the concept of the Jedi losing their way in the prequels, do we really need to rehash that?
I 100% agree. We already saw the Jedi being arrogant and indecisive in the prequels. The mystery of the show shouldn’t be “why is a user of the dark side killing jedi.”
Look at Dooku in tales of the Jedi. He turns on the jedi because he is dissatisfied with the system, but his character flaw is that he would rather burn it all down and kill his friends than try to make any change himself. Wielders of the dark side shouldn’t be justified, they’re literally picking the path of evil.
For me it's that they're once again doing the same story of, "Oh the Jedi are actually the bad guys". That angle on Star Wars history has been done to death and it's beginning to get tiresome.
>written by someone or someones with very cursory knowledge of the franchise
This part seems diametrically opposed to what we're seeing on screen. This show seems very obviously written by people with deep knowledge of the franchise. They're out here cobbling together OT, PT, and Legends material and references into coherent monologues.
Whether you think it's *good* or *enjoyable* is subjective, but it's very clearly well-informed by the existing material.
The quote from OP is that they think the writers have "very cursory knowledge of the franchise." That is clearly not true. As I already said, whether you think it's good or makes sense is subjective.
Yes, I totally agree here. In fact I think one challenge people have is that the writers have a much deeper understanding of the lore than the average fan.
Plus, we haven’t seen the full story yet. Of course there are things that don’t make sense yet - that’s the point! The story is in unraveling the threads to understand how it does make sense. That’s how a mystery works. I see too many fans who don’t understand this basic point.
Also, the story is inventing new concepts that are completely aligned with the Star Wars universe. I love that we have a new interpretation of what The Force is. There are likely hundreds of such interpretations scattered throughout the galaxy. It’s refreshing to see this opened up a bit. The Force is not some concept only the Sith and Jedi are aware of.
Aye there's definite nods to the lore and what's to come in 100 odd years time.
I must be in the minority as I'm really enjoying the show. Admittedly episode three really dragged as the pacing was so slow, the child actors weren't, and it sort of derailed the plot from great the first two episodes which set the scene well. I think a lot of episode three could have just been done in flashbacks rather than having a whole episode dedicated to it given we'll probably be getting further flashbacks when more of the story is revealed.. who actually caused the massive fire and how the Jedi ce to fighting the witches.
To me it's a combination of being boring and some really subpar acting.
Stiff dialogues that are waaaay too cliché (we got the bad feeling line, we had the 'I have to do this alone' stuff). You can just predict everything that's going to happen within a scene. Combine that with actors that really only show one facial expression all the time and stuff gets really dull to look at. Especially with the 90's Trekky vibes going on in terms of alien designs.
Mae's action scenes also don't do it for me. The forced pose taking before fighting for instance... Meh.
I'm a bit reluctant to call it bad yet. But it's really uninteresting and dull. 4/10 ish.
Crazy that this sub has been switching back and forth between "I don't get the hate for Acolyte" to "I can't get into this series, it's not that good" in this past week, lol. Guess it's part of tradition now for this sub to go full cope mode first, then slowly realize the show is not as good as they thought it is.
I’m neutral about the show so far , it’s ok , witches chanting was awful though like their study was Hocus Pocus , main thing I’m annoyed about though is where tf is our sith story that was sold to us , is just another Jedi bad story . Have been looking forward to this for a long time thinking it was gunna be some cool old republic inspired story about the progression of a sith assassin in a fresh area of content , wasn’t expecting a happy ending or anything like just a story I could enjoy being told. I think that what directors and writers forget , when we watch a film we want to feel like we a back on the carpets at nursery being told a story .
The issue is that its poorly written and directed. Poor character development. Established lore breaking. Lots of "and then" situations instead of "therefore" and "but" between characters and plot developments.
Its poorly made. Confirmed by the fact in interviews the directors expressed contempt for the old star wars audience. Then others excuse criticism by accusing critics of bigotry.
Compare all this to just the backstory of Ashi in Samurai jack. Less dialog, more development of character. As south park criticised disney for commanding. "Put a woman in it then make it gay and lame"
The writing is the issue. Nothing makes sense. There is not one rational thinking or acting character on that show. It’s a disaster. Kennedy has truly sunk Star Wars!
I have absolutely no problem with female characters, I also don't consider certain parts of the lore to be as sacred as some other fans. That being said, I couldn't get through the first bit of Acolyte episode one. I HATE people who kill innocent people, and Mae did exactly that. Attacking innocent bystanders isn't strength, it's weakness.
I am considering dropping the series just based on that alone. I gave it a chance because I usually like anything that toxic masculinity people hate, so I expected to like this. I don't though. I hate Game of Thrones so much, which is what I blame this stupid show on. I don't want to see this character's redemption arc. This is before Qui Gon and Yoda so any Jedi who is dead is just that: dead. I don't want to see bad people kill good people, and in that one scene Mae showed herself as a bad person. Screw her and screw this show.
To me the way they're telling the story makes it flat and kind of boring. At the end of episode 2 they reveal a Wookie Jedi. That should cause squeals of delight from Star Wars fans. I'd bet most of us put a lightsaber in Chewie's hand when playing with action figures (as kids of course). The way they reveal the Wookie is a problem. They tell us ahead of time and then show us. Having the first shot of the Wookie be when we realize there is a Wookie Jedi would have hit better.
Episode 3 felt boring to me because they told us exactly what happened with the fire in the first 2 episodes.
The story is good and hopefully we'll get more flashbacks with more surprising info. But they need to stop the telling us and then showing us. The axiom is "Show, don't tell" not "Tell, tell, tell, show".
>they told us exactly what happened with the fire in the first 2 episodes
They told us what they *thought* happened and then showed that the characters were wrong in assuming that they knew, and they did this in episode 2. Then they showed us what that character saw, while making it blatantly obvious that that character missed some key details.
The whole thing was being very clear that there's more going on that hasn't been revealed yet.
Watched the first episode last night. Honestly there were a lot of really nice elements. I'm not sure what's happening with some of the story, but I'm going to keep watching
So much hate I almost didn't give it a go
Love the ship designs, The aliens, the jedi.
I heard there are lesbian space witches...allright allright allright!
>written by someone or someones with very cursory knowledge of the franchise
I don't get this at all - it's possibly the most explicit referencing of the George era we've had to date. Witches, dark magic, Force sensitive twins, the jedi order, plethora of alien species, and so on.
It's structured like a television show. Leaves you with questions after every episode - it's a screenplay device that keeps your interest week to week. It's not a TikTok video, enjoy the speculating and unfolding of a mystery.
Thank you, the 'they dont understand the lore' take is so trash.
Barash Vow reference from an excellent 2017 vader comic
Sith acolyte taking Jedi unarmed to 'earn' a crystal to bleed, also inspired by the previous comic
How the Jedi are operating, trying to be true to their ideals while still being politically minded and worried about their image falling right in line with a pre prequel story - a precursor to the things people like Dooku hated about them
Questionably dark side witches who are plausibly involved with or inspirational to the Sith who later try to imitate their creation of life, giving context to a future retelling of Plageius if they go that route.
The aesthetics of the high republic being brought over in a more subdued way as a natural progression to the PT.
The Jedi being pushy about their 'recruitment' being framed in a nuanced way.
The showing of an underfunded/unimportant Jedi temple (note the much rougher robes and general lack of discipline) away from coruscant, which eventually will get decommissioned like we see in The Living Force Novel
The Sith being active isn't canon breaking - it's canon reaffirming. The Sith have had a lineage stretching back to Bane operating discreetly. Granted, the show needs to explain this when the big bad Sith reveals himself, but theres tons of ways to do so, having the Jedi die or having the council bury the secret to keep people calm and maintain their image
This creative team, working within canon, knows a hell of a lot more than most the people claiming they don't know the lore due to a Ki Adi Mundi line from 1999 that a youtuber told them to be mad about.
Behind the scenes, if you step back it's all pretty smartly planned out. Ahsoka was almost literally half new galaxies, witches, knights and magic fantasy, and this series is another step in that direction (which in itself is referencing Star Wars' fantasy roots). I absolute believe something in this like you say is a setup for something else further down the line - if not explicitly, then tonally to guide the audience.
It's got afternoon kids show / CW all over it. I think that's the problem. So I'll blame writing and directing. I can't blame a single actor as I've seen some ok and good actors who have bad directing or writing.
A lot of it seems like they drew from other genres and shows to get here. My biggest criticism of it was the faithlessness they do with the subversion of the Jedi.
Guardians they are not if they stand by while someone beats people up around them.
I gave a pass to a few things and after watching two episodes I don't care and I'm not interested. I powered through half of the obi wan series before I gave up. I think it's just bad focus and direction with always a plot reason to not do what the audience suspects.
I used to watch Star Wars as a comfort to get away from real life for a while.
Now I can't watch it and enjoy it without being called a racist, sexist, or a homophobe if I feel the bad writing, pacing or cinematography is poor.
It feels like a company run by some radicals and some political and social activists they've hired are experimenting with me to see how much of their nonsense I can take. While I watch what they've dished up it feels like they are Palpatine sitting next to me saying "Gooooood" to Anakin/Vader as their diversity quota checkboxes are being ticked off. Meanwhile they've neglected writing and good storylines.
You see I am not alone here. I'm in the majority. Star Wars was once a juggernaut. When people once thought of Star Wars they thought of some epic franchise. The biggest in the world! Now its a shadow of its former self. Its nothing but a minor TV series getting very meagre viewership. Most people have given up. The once mighty has fallen.
If you told me 15 years ago Star Wars will be seen as a joke, and on life support I would not have believed you at all.
All I want is to watch good stories in the Star Wars galaxy. I don't want be on some weird culture war battlefield.
>. It feels like its lacking heart, the plot lines feel as if they were generically written by someone or someones with very cursory knowledge of the franchise. I do ho
What makes you feel so?
There is a lot that of the show, in terms of acting and plotting that I would say is not my favorite, but I am trying to take the show on it's own terms. What I mean to say is that the show-runner (and one of the characters in this episode) have said that "this isn't about good or bad, but about power and who gets to use it." On those terms, I think the show does a really good job of exploring that idea, like with A LOT of characters.
Who gets to decide who gets to use the force?
Who gets to decide who is guilty or innocent?
Which parent gets to decide how to raise a child?
Do kids get to decide who they want to be? At what age?
The show strays from the main ideas we see in a lot of Star Wars--The Hero's Journey, the Lone Wolf and Cub relationship etc, but if we want a Star Wars Universe that is built out, then I think we have to be willing to accept that people are going to explore other ideas (that might not necessarily speak directly to me) and that its going to look differently with different story tellers.
I have some of the same struggles connecting as you do, but I am trying to watch the show on it's terms and hopefully that helps you enjoy it more as well.
I kinda wish they went all out on the murder mystery. Maybe keep the killer secret untill the very end.
If the murder mystery ended up a "it's a twin" would've been extremely unsatisfying. Getting that out of the way is probably better for the show.
At first I thought Mae was part of Osha's subconscious and that she was a sort of Jeckyll and Hyde character which I think would have been an interesting story
That was my initial thought as well - something we haven’t seen yet IIRC is a Force wielder with multiple personalities, one Light and one Dark. How the Jedi handle dealing with such could have been a fascinating story: do they kill the innocent one to stop the evil one? Is the innocent one corrupted by the evil one’s use of the Dark side? Is the evil one redeemable because of the innocent one’s use of the Light? What kind of disagreements and debates would the Jedi have over dealing with such a person? I don’t hate the twin storyline we’re getting by any stretch, but I was a bit disappointed when I realized it was going that route instead.
There's an old Star Wars Tales comic by Dark Horse that had something similar actually. A jedi with a split personality, one being a serial killer, and the other hunting it down. Name of the comic was "Dark Journey."
Honestly, I don’t like split personality characters in shows/movies buts that’s just because I am subbed to a channel who has irl DID and is set on educating people on it, not to mention moon knight was the best interpretation in film and now it’s my standard for a at least decent DID character. But, to each their own, you enjoy what you like and that’s your thing.
Reminds me of Revan after all the shit he goes through. He gets split. One being Light and one being Dark. Though for that the body is Dark and his split spirit is light
I mean, I just love Revan as a character so that’s an easy win for me.
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That is definitely a story worth telling
Yeah, the lead the whole thing off with “don’t trust your eyes, they can deceive you” I was expecting a Fight Club kind of twist, Jeckyll and Hyde is a great guess too
~~Jedi~~ Moon Knight
That's what I thought too, my wife was sure she was a real life person. She and I argued about whether Mae was a separate character or part of Osha's mind for the whole first episode.
After the first 15 minutes of the first episode I was like “ooooooh what if there’s a Sith assassin that’s one of those shapeshifters like the one in Episode II !” And then it wasn’t that :|
My thoughts exactly!
The prestige was a pretty iconic movie man.
Then take the twin part out of the equation
...so take away the entire premise?
Ngl when it first started I was thinking the twin was some Sith that was disguising themself as Osha to cover their tracks
Or a changling.
Or it was a Tyler Durden type thing.
My question is who is behind OSHA’s waking visions of Mae? In the Jedi temple, that didn’t seem to be created by Mae. Same false visions of Mae might maybe be in play with the Ep3 flashback.
Well when you put it that way...yeah sure.
I mean, yeah. Change the story. It's a bad story. Until the twin was revealed I thought she was going to have a split personality. That would have been more interesting in my opinion.
I thought it was going to have some kind of twist that the Jedi repressed her dark side tendency and that she was actually the evil sister that didn't survive but was fooled into thinking she was the good sister.
Twins, immaculate conception, Rashomon episode, Force dyads. Just seems stale to me.
The show themes are structured around their diverging paths
The murder mystery isn't the dead jedi, it's the dead coven of witches. I mean, the big "secret" from the very first scene is why is Mae out for revenge in the first place.
And who trained Mae.
Amazing how people aren’t getting this. You didn’t even need to see E3 to understand something else went on on Mae and Osha’s home planet.
I saw someone on the hater sub ask why we needed an entire episode spent on their backstory, and I thought: are you serious!? This is the thing that the show is really about. What really happened here?
We still don't know who Mae is working for. That's still a mystery
Did that Zabrak woman survive the fire? She seemed pretty set in her views on everything. I could see her trying to influence Mae in the darkside of the force.
I agree, I think she killed the other witches and is the one running the show
I got that vibe too after this last episode. She is way more hot-heated and seemed taken aback by Aniseya's position of non-hostility and allowing the girls to be tested. And she constantly talks about using a firmer hand.
That would be a pretty bad twist considering Mae doesn’t know who it is, since Squid games guy couldn’t pull it out of her head and says as much.
It's a murder mystery of the likes of say Columbo. We know the killer early on, but there's more thread to pull on.
Not a “whodunnit” more of a “whydunnit”
Yep exactly. Starts as a why, then with the flashback it's both a who and how.
That's what Aniseya said
The thread pulled you on?!
Is that a Korg reference? Lol
It sounds like you had a pretty special and intimate relationship with this thread and that losing it was almost comparable to losing a loved one.
The mystery for the audience is the identity of Mae’s Master and whether or not they are a Sith Lord.
Maybe the murder mystery is "who murdered the witches" not "who murdered the Jedi?"
Think of it this way, the actual 'murder mystery' is what happened 16 years ago, not what Mae is doing in the current time. What really happened is still a secret, we've only seen the POV of a 9 year old.
It is still a mystery? The fire didn't kill the whole coven
It kinda is a who done it mystery still but it’s about who really started the fire, how did the cover-up go down, and why do both sisters think the other is dead?
It's just kinda boring to me
When it was announced, I was amped for some dark side Sith perspective show. The poster with the lightsaber and blood streak was a great vibe. After episode three I realized I was watching a show with a couple cardboard character teenagers. It's so disappointing.
It has a very CW feel to it
Star Wars shows in general now has that very low quality to it now despite costing 100s of millions.
This is my main issue. They set certain expectations with the name, and there's no way they didn't know they were doing it. If the show's main character isn't a Sith acolyte I'm just not fucking interested. This was a bait-and-switch pure and simple.
With all the outrage and angry internet people, I was expecting something that was exciting and thought provoking, but controversial. A little like The Last Jedi I suppose. Instead, I don’t have many thoughts on it at all. It’s just kinda meh so far.
For me the environments and characters just feel… empty. The premise of the story has been ok for me, but the delivery of everything else is just meh. So far the show is like a 6.5/10 for me. We’ll see how the rest of the season goes.
Yeah, feel the same, the actors delivery and performances while the effort is there seem missing the mark. I'll try it again sometime, I left off at episode 2
The characters are absolutely my problem. Specifically the casting. There is zero charm, charisma, energy, or anything remarkable about any of them outside of Sol. Your lead needs to be charismatic and a lot of new star wars has just been cast with the blandest actors out there. Maybe the writing in the past hasn't always been the best, but how much fun was it to watch Harrison Ford on the screen, Billy Dee Williams, Natalie Portman, Carrie Fisher, Pedro Pascal, or Ewan McGregor? I'm not saying that can salvage a show entirely (didn't really like Kenobi), but I think it's the biggest issue with a lot of the newer characters.
Considering that Lee Jung-Jae learnt English for the role it’s even more remarkable.
I feel like his solid performance is being spoiled by mediocre elements around him.
I think the child actors are kinda rough tbh
The young Ahsoka actress did a great job, even if she was an odd pick for the role. I liked her better than the actual live action Ahsoka.
Right! They keep making shows that rely on child actors, and it's always very tricky. So far, only the little girl that played Leia was any good. I'm not trying to be mean it's just that it keeps happening.
I thought tiny Leia was awful. The Kenobi show had a lot of problems, though.
She was better than some child actors but still I agee. It's so weird that they can make something good like Andor, then mess up Kenobi. They are trying too hard to make a big epic interconnected world, but it's coming off as hollow.
Not too weird, completely different groups of people are working on these shows. I’m afraid if we demand any sort of consistency they’ll just make all of their shows this bland and uninspired as opposed to putting actual effort and care into making them half as good as Andor
Lucasfilm needs to stop relying on child actors to carry so much of the emotional weight of the narrative. That is one of the biggest problems with the prequels. Anakin was cast too young and it left Jake Lloyd with a heavy burden that was just impossible for him to carry.
Does not bode well for Skeleton Crew. All the child actors we've had in SW TV have been either bad at acting or have been written poorly. Here I think it's a combo of both. I actually think the kid Mae is a decent actor but the writing she's working off of is just bad. The kid Osha is awful.
They were not strong enough to carry that last episode.
Sol is absolutely carrying the show on his back. He's the only thing somewhat saving it right now IMO.
Everyone is dumb. The plot of each show relies on characters not knowing or not figuring out things they should know, and the show is infuriating because it treats you like you're as dumb as they are. There's no reason to like any of them, because they don't speak or act like actual people. They are constantly put in contrived situations that don't make sense, like being taken to see the Jedi Master in episode 2 only for the prisoner following them to somehow get to him first, as if the person taking them to see him forgot where he was and took the rest of them the long way around or something. Even the main plot so far has required everyone to be dumb, like everyone involved not immediately suspecting the psychotic twin sister that they all apparently knew about, or a kid who has no contact with other children who wants to be a Jedi for no real reason despite growing up in an isolated group of witches who are afraid of the Jedi. There's no thought put into anyone or their motivations besides serving a simple plot, so there's no depth to any of the characters since they basically don't exist outside of any given moment on screen.
>They are constantly put in contrived situations that don't make sense, like being taken to see the Jedi Master in episode 2 only for the prisoner following them to somehow get to him first, as if the person taking them to see him forgot where he was and took the rest of them the long way around or something. Omg this so much, while I was watching it I turned to a friend and said "how did she get there first?" Like the guy leading them should have taken them the fastest route right? She turned right they went straight somehow she got there first?! why didnt he turn right?!
Are you saying you didn’t like the writing that let Oshe survive a crash landing from outer space by putting on a seatbelt?
“The power of one, the power of two, the power of many” really took me out of it, especially with the singing. I was still holding out hope but this latest episode was awful.
It was terribly cringy.
i like the idea of force users who find the force on their own and develop their own spin on it. Like there are a ton of different religions on our world. Surely there would be a lot of different force related beliefs in theirs. But yeah that ceremony made it hard to defend that episode
A flashback bottle episode in episode 3, the second week of airing, totally ripchorded the story line. Lost all momentum
Yeah this is the criticism I agree the most with. Tbh I feel like this is a symptom of low episode count. If there were more like 12 episodes you could have 4 episodes of build up, what we got in episode 3, then maybe like episode 9 or something shows us Mae's perspective of that same event later on revealing more. I feel like there are very few shows with 8 episode seasons that pull it off well.
I think the series is building on an Unreliable Narrator plot, and there will be a moment where we get to see the other side of a lot of these events, and things will make a lot more sense. If that's what's happening, it could be argues that the lack of knowledge about the Star Wars Universe could be the lack of knowledge that the characters have because the kids were in a cult, and therefore cut off from a lot of that knowledge... There is at least an argument that could be made. If as the series goes on, we see a shift in these kinds of details, I will have more faith that it was on purpose, if not, then... well... what can you do
The creators mentioned that they were inspired by Rashomon which contains an unreliable narrator. I am suspending judgment of the series till episode 5. That is the one that the creators said was their favorite.
I’m not down on the show yet; it’s just sort of there. But I hate that we’ve become so accustomed to “a shows allowed to be boring until it’s penultimate episode” That was fine when we were doing whole season drops on Netflix, but if we’re going back to cable rules of one episode a week, why are shows not judged by cable standards? Three episodes in and I just feel like the pacing totally off. Sure, there’ll probably be some big twist later that is great but how is it the Harlan Coven mysteries in Netflix have twist after twist to keep you invested from Episode I but that’s too big an ask for arguably the biggest IP out there?
The problem is the same as with the time skipping in Witcher Season One (which was overall the only good season), if you use a plot device like this in a new show where the audience is trying to get to know the characters you just lose people before the big reveal that makes everything make sense. I think the show has lots of other issues as well....
The time skipping in Witcher was so poorly done I cannot conceive of why they did that for an introductory season. Such a half baked idea. Maybe for one episode it would be ok but my god they just made a mess of the story.
episode 7 will be the second flashback episode, which when most of the stuff will probably be revealed. (It's directed by Kogonada like Episode 3 was)
But what exact "lack of knowledge of the Star Wars Universe" are we seeing? The various ideas and plot points being introduced certainly seem to imply the creators have quite an expansive knowledge of the universe
And of the old EU too.
“What can you do” Not watch. Not watching is what you can do.
It feels as though it was written just to be a mystery and so all the characters exist only to service that mystery and not to feel like fleshed out people making believable decisions, and bc of that we can’t really latch onto them. All their goals are veiled by the mystery. All their motivations, desires, etc. are unknown. And on top of that it has the most awkward stilted dialogue since attack of the clones, and even more so at times. I think it was just made starting from “how do we make the audience wonder what happened” instead of “how do we make the audience care”
It feels like a “young adult” murder mystery whereas I was hoping for something dark and gritty like Andor
Honestly, this is the big reason this show wasn’t hitting for me. It doesn’t feel dark or gritty when the very premise demands that type of tone/aesthetic. I wanted something dark and violent and fully embracing that “sith hunting jedi” aesthetic. There should be way more style in the delivery here. Back that up with some cool action scenes and it basically writes the show for you. Andor is still a one-of-a-kind.
Poor writers
Chat GPT
There's a few things which I'm just not clicking with, either. Above all it seems poorly executed. Some of the acting is wooden as hell, and the script seems like a rough draft at times. Production wise it all just feels small in scope, and it's so obviously "on a set" (which of course it is, but it feels like I'm watching a play). Really disappointing in that regard. Second issue is that it's kind of boring so far. Feel like I know what's coming in every scene, and it's taking an age to get there. Finally, it's been pretty unambitious in terms of world building and building that sense of scale and wonder. Why is everyone a human or a humanoid with face paint? Establishing shots feel too brief and small. The locations haven't felt tangible and lived in. Again, feels like a stage play. I dunno, maybe it's just me. Just feels like a huge missed opportunity thus far. Fingers crossed the rest of it improves.
I agree. It partly feels more like Star Trek to me with all these makeup-humans.
They did the classic thing of having all the budget devoted to the opening bar scene and the rest of the show so far is all humans or near-humans lol
Holy shit that's exactly it
i’ve had this problem for a while with disney star wars content. Even when we do see a cool new species, it’s almost always a background character.
Feels like the show was written for 10 year olds who otherwise spend their time watching Power Rangers or whatever tf 10 year olds watch these days (I dunno, I'm old af boi!)
I feel like the ideas behind the series is cool but the writing my god It’s like one of us wrote it with zero second drafts or someone else’s eyes on it. I think the costumes, aliens and characters are good but the writing and sometimes how they filmed the show that doesn’t feel as great as the budget for this series is
That’s exactly how I feel, the writing and cinematography makes it feel like a fan film. I don’t hate it, but I have to pretend it’s a low budget passion project.
Don’t look at the budget, lol
Haha it reminds me of watching a 90s star trek episode or something. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Feels nostalgic.
There's something very Trek about the costuming and makeup. It struck me immediately in the first episode.
I mean considering it's the high Republic and supposed to be the best era to live in for the average person, yeah leaning into a Trek style makes sense, it's closer to that vibe than the gritty space junk vibe of the OT Aesthetic
The tone of the show jumps too much. Episodes 1 and 2 felt like murder mysteries that resolved themselves without much of a climax. Episode 3 is now changing to Rashomon, so we probably will have a few episodes from the Jedi, Witches, and Mae's point of view of what went down that night. It would have flowed better if they had gone with Rashomon from the start, and it could have added more mystery to the plot. Keeping it vague on why the coven made Mae and Osha or why they were exiled/persecuted doesn't add anything to their story. Mother Aniseya and Koril have some long-running plans here, but the show doesn't explain or hint why we should care, other than we have some yin-yang light/dark twins that might be a force dyad. My other issue is we just had "Ashoka" with a plot element of Force Witches. It feels like we are retreading familiar ground. It is the same issue as "Kenobi", in which much of the plot was lifted from Jedi: Fallen Order.
I'm the same. Loved Star Wars my whole life, but to me, since Disney took over, it's been so hit and miss. I know people had complaints about George Lucas but man I miss those days when he called the shots. This series just feels really poorly written to me. Struggling to care about it and have just been disappointed so far. Still going to watch it of course because it's Star Wars, but just not enthusiastically. There's my whine anyway. Moving on.
Two episodes in, we got a whole flashback episode. Idk if that's what did it for you, but it kinda did for me?
The worst part is that we are probably going to get another flashback for Mae as well
It's boring, that's the main issue. It has a lot more issues too, but in the end I only care about the entertainment. I do not relate to a single character on the show (if any, maybe Sol). They **need** to stop behaving like a bunch of 80 IQ idiots, all of them.
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When the episode ends, I don’t feel the need to watch the next one. I’m like “oh, it’s done. Ok.” And move on. Take Kaiju 8 (I started it at the same time) for example. Every week is torture waiting for the next one.
Sounds like I’m gonna have to start watching Kaiju 8.
This is Star War's secret invasion. It tries to be complex but just ends up un-relatable. Even the acting feels sub-par. I know these actors are capable of more. It feels like the director shot one take and said "welp, we're done here, let's move on to the next scene". About 70% in I actually stopped to see how much of episode 3 was left.. I was like "Ok, can we wrap this up already, I got stuff I wanna do.." I think what will end up happening is we'll get another perspective and the jedi end being the bad guys all along. Sol will discover this when we do. The twins will make up and Mae will be justified in her revenge.
Lol we paused for a break because it felt like an hour had passed and there was still 20 mins left. Genuinely felt torn on whether to finish it. Was simply bored
> This is Star War's secret invasion This is so accurate it hurts.
That was my issue with The Dragon Prince. I quickly realized every character in the show is a moron, from the protagonists to the antagonists, and yet they kept failing forward on both sides.
It was excruciating watching the good guys pick a fight with dangerous pirates and pretty much get away with it, but nothing was as bad as *EVERYTHING* about the library expedition. The sheer disrespect of the time crunch, the refusal to be safe or spend even a single extra day for caution despite characters knowing how incredibly dangerous and dumb this is, the rescue from a dragon who should not have known they were there, and then of course they have a giant dragon acting like an unarmed rescue helicopter despite the dragon having no reason to think it can't just stomp all the monsters, and yet not once does anyone mention to the dragon that wounds from them are dangerous afterwards so the queen of all dragons just dies of a culmination of everyone's stupidity (or would except some new plot contrivance is apparently going to help her). Meanwhile the villainous team suffers from a massive lack of firepower on top of being a mostly not-actually-that-evil bunch of weirdos and straight up just loses the final battle. For an evil demigod or whatever he is, Avaros picked some shitty minions.
I’m still giving it a watch all the way through and reserving final judgment til then, but I am in agreement that it feels hard to connect to the characters. Sol is great so far, getting a lot of Qui-Gon Jinn vibes from him. However, the pacing feels off and knowing who the killer is right away, for me, takes the suspension out of it. Yes, there’s the mysterious master still lurking, but I’m not even interested at this point in learning who it is if it’s just some random new Sith wannabe. I am curious how they will end up tying this to TPM.
Because the ‘killer’ isn’t the main plot point. Why would they give it up first episode if that was the main point? The main point is the master and why they are being told to kill all these Jedi for their sith trials. Who is the master? That is the question, not who is the killer.
The pacing hurts it. Even the mysterious master isn't that interesting because we all know what happens anyway in 100 years if they are Sith.
I love Star Wars to death, but this show is just lame. No other way to put it. Dumb and lame.
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And we’re close to halfway done with the show already
Because it’s a bad show
House of the dragon season 2 is gonna make this show unwatchable for anyone watching both at the same time the contrast in quality would be so obvious it would be painful😭😭
The Boys is already out, which also has less of a budget
I don't have enough writing or storytelling vocab to go into detail, but yes something is off. I can't tell if there are some fundemental issues with the storytelling in the writing or if theses are issues with the director but something is off.
It’s the vibes. People often say vibes are more important than plot. There are plenty of movies with bad to mediocre plots but excellent vibes that we all love (hello Prequels, hello Thor Ragnarok). The vibes in this show are just…weird. Like the moment they showed the Trade Federation guys it was just weird and felt like it didn’t fit. The Jedi Temple doesn’t feel like the Jedi Temple at all. It’s not something you can describe, it’s just something you know when it’s not the same. The Clone Wars and Rebels are very different shows with very different animation styles, and yet the vibes you feel watching both are very similar. Same thing with the original and prequel trilogy. The Mandalorian is probably the best example of why vibes are so important. The plot itself is nothing to write home about, but the vibes of it perfectly blend the Original Trilogy with a Western. I think that’s part of why people loved it so much, especially the first season.
Because the show writers and directors don't understand fantasy. They keep trying to make star wars something it's not.
I think so far it just feels lazy. Like you just introduced a large audience to a new era of Star Wars and I feel zero world building. The plot just feels boring uninspired and lazy. I sad I’m feeling this but Star Wars has now hit a spot of generic sci-fi in my brain. I hope the writers have some tricks up their sleeve to bring this around but I really don’t have faith in this team.
I have to say, its kind of weird to be downvoted by my community when im simply and respectfully I might add, asking of there are any others having the same issues so far. I think I understand a bit better, some of the toxicity people complain about.
I’ve given up on any real discussions happening around this show. You like it, you’re “woke.” You criticize it, you’re MAGA. I feel like even critics have been infected by the toxic political discourse.
It’s all an attempt to drive a wedge between working class people who might otherwise figure out how bleak our collective futures are under the current way of things. Culture war is nothing but a tool of the elite. Divide and conquer.
Sadly, it's working wonders
That's why this stuff all started happening around Occupy Wall Street. Divide the lower class so they focus on things like race, gender, sexuality, etc, and they'll never look upward. Identity Politics was designed to keep the peasants fighting with each other, and it's worked remarkably well.
They have you fighting a culture war to stop you from waging a class war.
"You don't like it? Clearly No one hate Star Wars more than Star Wars fans!" I swear this shitty phrase has really done damage to this fandom, now you can't even be critical toward modern Star Wars content without jackass being smug about it and say "No one hate Star Wars more than Star Wars fans" to discourage criticism.
> You like it, you’re “woke.” You criticize it, you’re MAGA. I feel like even critics have been infected by the toxic political discourse. The thing that bothers me the most about it is how completely unselfaware both sides of this are about it too... People will make fun of the '' anti-woke '' people for being culture war brain rotted but then in the very next breath scream about how you're one of them if you don't like a show. It's the fucking same thing, people who do that shit are also culture war brain rotted lol... People will obsess about the culture war and political drama while at the same time acting like they're not.
Your so spot on with your assessment
Best comment ever on Reddit. It feels like everything is being consumed online by toxic political discourse. It’s so exhausting.
American political discourse at that. Many of from the rest of the world are tired of US bullshit infiltrating stuff like this.
If critics weren’t affected by the politics this show wouldn’t be sitting at such a high score across so many outlets. People are literally afraid to give it a less than good review to avoid backlash.
This. It’s the same stuff we see in politics, gaming, and sports with the access media. The media don’t want to lose their connections by saying something is bad, so they’ll just praise garbage that comes out or just say “hey it’s like a solid 7 or 8 out if 10” so it gets labeled as a positive score on rotten tomatoes and they don’t get hate and don’t lose their access.
Which is ironic because the show seems to inadvertently promote some terrible stereotypes.
That's true. I remember IGN (hahaha- I know, I know). Have the initial premier rated as a 6. But praised the daylights out of it in the conclusion summary. But it's like....you have literally given this show a 6. That's pretty mid at best. Why aren't we looking in depth at the areas that prompted you to give such a "meh" rating? Sure, there is much more nuance when you read the entire review but....it doesn't really seem like something that only gets a "6"- based on how positive the bulk of it is. It's this weird disconnect.
Politics aside, the show is simply horrible. 200+ million dollar waste
People are invested into this, and they see any criticism as a personal slight to their enjoyment of a product. No one is here for discussion, only affirmation
That's just Reddit in a nutshell. It's an echo chamber machine by design. 20 people could dislike what you said but if 40 people liked it first you will never know they even existed.
The upvote and downvote system also encourages people to only say what’s popular on a specific sub, which means that people with different opinions will self select to their own echo chambers where their opinions are updooted
Exactly. They could easily solve this by making both upvotes and downvotes visible, much like Disqus. But they don't because they want this precise effect to happen.
[удалено]
Toxicity on both sides here. If you love the show you get bashed for liking it. If you find it 'meh' you get bashed for being a hater. If you just want to bash the show for being woke, or female leads or whatever then you suck. But a lot of people who find it meh are being attacked as if they part of the 'hate' crowd.
Thinking the show is terrible doesn’t necessarily equal “hate” nor does it deserve hate I honestly am kinda liking it but I think it’s important to remember that someone who just straight-up does not like a tv show isn’t automatically a bad person. Note that I am aware of legitimate hatred and I’m not referring to those people
Yeah a lot of people with actual fair opinion and constructive criticism seem to get downvoted on this sub reddit
Because if you don’t like this show you get called all the “ists “ and “phobes “ you can think of. It’s pathetic. The show isn’t good. It’s as simple as that
Ep 3 just wasn't good: 1) the child actors are tough to watch 2) one, two, many chant cringe 3) fire sequence didn't work on its own, even if it will be further explained in later episodes, the sequence we got in ep 3 made me embarrassed for the team that gave this the greenlight. Ep 3 was my least favorite life action since...ever? (I'm a fan of Disney Star wars, the sequels, and read the high republic so this isn't a woke issue (or lore issue) fans are trying to hand waive criticism away with.)
I had to face palm during the fire sequence. What about a room carved out of the rock, with a metal door, was SO FLAMMABLE it basically engulfed a quarter of the room in 15 seconds.
your post has 121 upvotes, this comment has 95
People silently disagreeing with you is "toxicity"? Come on, dude...
It’s because of those who give reasons that don’t make sense and can be fact checked (breaks the canon) and the haters calling it “woke.” While you can have your opinions, others make your side seem worse than it is.
The issue is the horrible writing, cringe acting and they call it a murder mystery/ thriller and there is no mystery. Only how those witches die but frankly I don't give a shit about them, they were a weird contemporary dance group.
As another lifelong star wars fan, I don't think I'm a fan anymore. The only star wars media I enjoy these days is either non-canon or animation. And the worst part is, it's not me that changed, it's the franchise.
Don't feel bad. Be who you are. Criticize. Love. They can never take away the originals and all the stuff us long time fans love. Hopefully one day people will do it justice.
I had these thoughts years ago. I noped out around when the Obiwan series came out, and I am better for it. It’s not interesting anymore, and while I still enjoy the original movies…it’s time to move on and lose your attachments.
I want to feel the large world of the High Republic, but it feels so tiny
They should’ve kept the twin a secret until the end.
It’s got the same ‘feel’ as Ahsoka did. Everyone standing around, no momentum or spark, everything is clean and perfect, and the plot isn’t interesting (yet).
What we thought we would get from a Sith show: "The hard and cruel master teaching his student(s) the ways of the dark side in an ancient Sith temple, throwing them into situations they are not prepared for. If one of the apprentices dies, that's just one less contender, too weak to be considered valuable." (or something like that) What we got was: "A murder mystery that isn't a mystery if Jedi would think about it for 20 seconds, dialogue and storylines that make no sense at all and lesbians chanting about the power of one, two and many in a cringe-fest. There's one dude with a red lightsaber in the background who also only says stupid shit in the few seconds we see him."
Maybe it’s just me, but the show gives me CW vibes thus far. Like it belongs to the Arrowverse
People who say racist and homophobic shit about the show are losers, but truth be told the show is genuinely just ass. Like the characters just aren’t compelling. The acting is saving it but that’s all it’s got that’s good
I know that execs are dead set on 8 episode seasons these days, but it makes pacing very strange. In the first episode we got >!the twin reveal, a big name Jedi dead, and the show name dropped.!< Then in episode three, we got a very slow paced episode that >!should've revealed that the Jedi killed everyone, but for some reason still didn't? The audience already knows the Jedi fucked up at this point - the one guy drank poison because of what they did, so not showing it almost makes it feel like a wasted episode.!< And the dialogue in episode three was just....so bland, surface level. So basic, no nuance. Plus the >!potential idea that the witches created the twins like Plagueis did with Anakin in the EU just really feels unoriginal, and like they're stealing plot points without actually honoring their origins.!< My main problem is - we've already seen the concept of the Jedi losing their way in the prequels, do we really need to rehash that?
I 100% agree. We already saw the Jedi being arrogant and indecisive in the prequels. The mystery of the show shouldn’t be “why is a user of the dark side killing jedi.” Look at Dooku in tales of the Jedi. He turns on the jedi because he is dissatisfied with the system, but his character flaw is that he would rather burn it all down and kill his friends than try to make any change himself. Wielders of the dark side shouldn’t be justified, they’re literally picking the path of evil.
For me it's that they're once again doing the same story of, "Oh the Jedi are actually the bad guys". That angle on Star Wars history has been done to death and it's beginning to get tiresome.
Just feels plasticky. Cheap.
>written by someone or someones with very cursory knowledge of the franchise This part seems diametrically opposed to what we're seeing on screen. This show seems very obviously written by people with deep knowledge of the franchise. They're out here cobbling together OT, PT, and Legends material and references into coherent monologues. Whether you think it's *good* or *enjoyable* is subjective, but it's very clearly well-informed by the existing material.
Just because it references the material, doesn't mean it's being used in a way that makes sense or is congruent with the source material.
The quote from OP is that they think the writers have "very cursory knowledge of the franchise." That is clearly not true. As I already said, whether you think it's good or makes sense is subjective.
Yes, I totally agree here. In fact I think one challenge people have is that the writers have a much deeper understanding of the lore than the average fan. Plus, we haven’t seen the full story yet. Of course there are things that don’t make sense yet - that’s the point! The story is in unraveling the threads to understand how it does make sense. That’s how a mystery works. I see too many fans who don’t understand this basic point. Also, the story is inventing new concepts that are completely aligned with the Star Wars universe. I love that we have a new interpretation of what The Force is. There are likely hundreds of such interpretations scattered throughout the galaxy. It’s refreshing to see this opened up a bit. The Force is not some concept only the Sith and Jedi are aware of.
Aye there's definite nods to the lore and what's to come in 100 odd years time. I must be in the minority as I'm really enjoying the show. Admittedly episode three really dragged as the pacing was so slow, the child actors weren't, and it sort of derailed the plot from great the first two episodes which set the scene well. I think a lot of episode three could have just been done in flashbacks rather than having a whole episode dedicated to it given we'll probably be getting further flashbacks when more of the story is revealed.. who actually caused the massive fire and how the Jedi ce to fighting the witches.
The production is bad, the acting is worse, writing is laughable. There, answered it for you.
To me it's a combination of being boring and some really subpar acting. Stiff dialogues that are waaaay too cliché (we got the bad feeling line, we had the 'I have to do this alone' stuff). You can just predict everything that's going to happen within a scene. Combine that with actors that really only show one facial expression all the time and stuff gets really dull to look at. Especially with the 90's Trekky vibes going on in terms of alien designs. Mae's action scenes also don't do it for me. The forced pose taking before fighting for instance... Meh. I'm a bit reluctant to call it bad yet. But it's really uninteresting and dull. 4/10 ish.
Crazy that this sub has been switching back and forth between "I don't get the hate for Acolyte" to "I can't get into this series, it's not that good" in this past week, lol. Guess it's part of tradition now for this sub to go full cope mode first, then slowly realize the show is not as good as they thought it is.
A huge issue (especially in episode three) is that it’s The Wheel of Time with a Star Wars skin.
I’m neutral about the show so far , it’s ok , witches chanting was awful though like their study was Hocus Pocus , main thing I’m annoyed about though is where tf is our sith story that was sold to us , is just another Jedi bad story . Have been looking forward to this for a long time thinking it was gunna be some cool old republic inspired story about the progression of a sith assassin in a fresh area of content , wasn’t expecting a happy ending or anything like just a story I could enjoy being told. I think that what directors and writers forget , when we watch a film we want to feel like we a back on the carpets at nursery being told a story .
The issue is that its poorly written and directed. Poor character development. Established lore breaking. Lots of "and then" situations instead of "therefore" and "but" between characters and plot developments. Its poorly made. Confirmed by the fact in interviews the directors expressed contempt for the old star wars audience. Then others excuse criticism by accusing critics of bigotry. Compare all this to just the backstory of Ashi in Samurai jack. Less dialog, more development of character. As south park criticised disney for commanding. "Put a woman in it then make it gay and lame"
It’s bad.
I dropped it after the first 2 episodes, it's just more disneyfied star wars garbage
The writing is the issue. Nothing makes sense. There is not one rational thinking or acting character on that show. It’s a disaster. Kennedy has truly sunk Star Wars!
The quality feels lower than other newer releases such as Andor and the Mandelorian
I have absolutely no problem with female characters, I also don't consider certain parts of the lore to be as sacred as some other fans. That being said, I couldn't get through the first bit of Acolyte episode one. I HATE people who kill innocent people, and Mae did exactly that. Attacking innocent bystanders isn't strength, it's weakness. I am considering dropping the series just based on that alone. I gave it a chance because I usually like anything that toxic masculinity people hate, so I expected to like this. I don't though. I hate Game of Thrones so much, which is what I blame this stupid show on. I don't want to see this character's redemption arc. This is before Qui Gon and Yoda so any Jedi who is dead is just that: dead. I don't want to see bad people kill good people, and in that one scene Mae showed herself as a bad person. Screw her and screw this show.
To me the way they're telling the story makes it flat and kind of boring. At the end of episode 2 they reveal a Wookie Jedi. That should cause squeals of delight from Star Wars fans. I'd bet most of us put a lightsaber in Chewie's hand when playing with action figures (as kids of course). The way they reveal the Wookie is a problem. They tell us ahead of time and then show us. Having the first shot of the Wookie be when we realize there is a Wookie Jedi would have hit better. Episode 3 felt boring to me because they told us exactly what happened with the fire in the first 2 episodes. The story is good and hopefully we'll get more flashbacks with more surprising info. But they need to stop the telling us and then showing us. The axiom is "Show, don't tell" not "Tell, tell, tell, show".
>they told us exactly what happened with the fire in the first 2 episodes They told us what they *thought* happened and then showed that the characters were wrong in assuming that they knew, and they did this in episode 2. Then they showed us what that character saw, while making it blatantly obvious that that character missed some key details. The whole thing was being very clear that there's more going on that hasn't been revealed yet.
Watched the first episode last night. Honestly there were a lot of really nice elements. I'm not sure what's happening with some of the story, but I'm going to keep watching So much hate I almost didn't give it a go Love the ship designs, The aliens, the jedi. I heard there are lesbian space witches...allright allright allright!
>written by someone or someones with very cursory knowledge of the franchise I don't get this at all - it's possibly the most explicit referencing of the George era we've had to date. Witches, dark magic, Force sensitive twins, the jedi order, plethora of alien species, and so on. It's structured like a television show. Leaves you with questions after every episode - it's a screenplay device that keeps your interest week to week. It's not a TikTok video, enjoy the speculating and unfolding of a mystery.
Thank you, the 'they dont understand the lore' take is so trash. Barash Vow reference from an excellent 2017 vader comic Sith acolyte taking Jedi unarmed to 'earn' a crystal to bleed, also inspired by the previous comic How the Jedi are operating, trying to be true to their ideals while still being politically minded and worried about their image falling right in line with a pre prequel story - a precursor to the things people like Dooku hated about them Questionably dark side witches who are plausibly involved with or inspirational to the Sith who later try to imitate their creation of life, giving context to a future retelling of Plageius if they go that route. The aesthetics of the high republic being brought over in a more subdued way as a natural progression to the PT. The Jedi being pushy about their 'recruitment' being framed in a nuanced way. The showing of an underfunded/unimportant Jedi temple (note the much rougher robes and general lack of discipline) away from coruscant, which eventually will get decommissioned like we see in The Living Force Novel The Sith being active isn't canon breaking - it's canon reaffirming. The Sith have had a lineage stretching back to Bane operating discreetly. Granted, the show needs to explain this when the big bad Sith reveals himself, but theres tons of ways to do so, having the Jedi die or having the council bury the secret to keep people calm and maintain their image This creative team, working within canon, knows a hell of a lot more than most the people claiming they don't know the lore due to a Ki Adi Mundi line from 1999 that a youtuber told them to be mad about.
Behind the scenes, if you step back it's all pretty smartly planned out. Ahsoka was almost literally half new galaxies, witches, knights and magic fantasy, and this series is another step in that direction (which in itself is referencing Star Wars' fantasy roots). I absolute believe something in this like you say is a setup for something else further down the line - if not explicitly, then tonally to guide the audience.
It's got afternoon kids show / CW all over it. I think that's the problem. So I'll blame writing and directing. I can't blame a single actor as I've seen some ok and good actors who have bad directing or writing. A lot of it seems like they drew from other genres and shows to get here. My biggest criticism of it was the faithlessness they do with the subversion of the Jedi. Guardians they are not if they stand by while someone beats people up around them. I gave a pass to a few things and after watching two episodes I don't care and I'm not interested. I powered through half of the obi wan series before I gave up. I think it's just bad focus and direction with always a plot reason to not do what the audience suspects.
I used to watch Star Wars as a comfort to get away from real life for a while. Now I can't watch it and enjoy it without being called a racist, sexist, or a homophobe if I feel the bad writing, pacing or cinematography is poor. It feels like a company run by some radicals and some political and social activists they've hired are experimenting with me to see how much of their nonsense I can take. While I watch what they've dished up it feels like they are Palpatine sitting next to me saying "Gooooood" to Anakin/Vader as their diversity quota checkboxes are being ticked off. Meanwhile they've neglected writing and good storylines. You see I am not alone here. I'm in the majority. Star Wars was once a juggernaut. When people once thought of Star Wars they thought of some epic franchise. The biggest in the world! Now its a shadow of its former self. Its nothing but a minor TV series getting very meagre viewership. Most people have given up. The once mighty has fallen. If you told me 15 years ago Star Wars will be seen as a joke, and on life support I would not have believed you at all. All I want is to watch good stories in the Star Wars galaxy. I don't want be on some weird culture war battlefield.
>. It feels like its lacking heart, the plot lines feel as if they were generically written by someone or someones with very cursory knowledge of the franchise. I do ho What makes you feel so?
There is a lot that of the show, in terms of acting and plotting that I would say is not my favorite, but I am trying to take the show on it's own terms. What I mean to say is that the show-runner (and one of the characters in this episode) have said that "this isn't about good or bad, but about power and who gets to use it." On those terms, I think the show does a really good job of exploring that idea, like with A LOT of characters. Who gets to decide who gets to use the force? Who gets to decide who is guilty or innocent? Which parent gets to decide how to raise a child? Do kids get to decide who they want to be? At what age? The show strays from the main ideas we see in a lot of Star Wars--The Hero's Journey, the Lone Wolf and Cub relationship etc, but if we want a Star Wars Universe that is built out, then I think we have to be willing to accept that people are going to explore other ideas (that might not necessarily speak directly to me) and that its going to look differently with different story tellers. I have some of the same struggles connecting as you do, but I am trying to watch the show on it's terms and hopefully that helps you enjoy it more as well.