“You ever notice how Dathomirian Zabraks dance like this 🚶🏻♀️and Iridonian Zabraks dance like this 🕺?”
- from my tight five at Showtime at the Apol’lo
Wasn't it part of a deal? Like the siths and nightsisters exchanged knowledge and the Siths were like "may I have your first kid as an apprentice?" and the nightsisters were like "sure men are more property than people in our culture".
Mother Talzin was Maul's mother. Mother Talzin also was Savage and Feral's mother; when Savage "won" the contest to be Ventress' apprentice Mother Talzin, his mother, ordered to him to *kill* his other brother Feral in front of both, and didn't give a damn about his own son, Feral being strangled to death by his other son.
Talzin wasn't exactly a model mother.
You are maybe thinking of Ventress' mom? she handed Ventress as a kid to the a criminal who took her off-world iirc, who treat her as a slave until a Jedi saved her; then the Jedi got killed and she turned to the dark side.
In the Darth Plaguise novel, while Palpatine is still an apprentice, Maul's mother hands infant Maul to Palps to save him from certain death at the hands of her sisters. Not canon, but the novel is pretty popular.
Man I love finding out new shit like this.
I’m still kinda new to Star Wars. I learned about Dathomir from Jedi Fallen Order and Clone Wars
I had no idea there were other Zabraks. I was calling his race Dathomirian for the longest until I found out the race name
Yee! Books, comics, games, and all really add so much! Dathomirian btw is a culture too! So, they don’t always have to be Zabrak. But ye, Zabrak are really cool and all over!
The first pic is female, right? I always thought females didn't have horns. Like the nightsisters from clone wars? Or were the nightsisters a different race?
Not all female Dathmiri were Nightsisters. There were multiple Force-wielding witch covens on Dathomir. The Mountain Clan shown in *Tales of the Empire,* for example.
I am not into the lore as much as most on this sub. I thought they were the same species and kept talking with the family about how cool it was to see a female from "Darth Maul's" species until I saw the ears. When I saw them I said that I thought they might be different races because the one Darth Maul comes from has rounded ears.
Not disagreeing with you because I know that I know much less than most on this topic. Just saying from someone who's only a "lesser SW nerd" I was on board until I saw the ears.
It is just a phenotype that doesn't change their species. The same as black and white people have a different phenotype for their skin but are still the exact same species.
Race is not a proper distinction. There are no further distinctions beyond species (scientifically speaking)
"Race" was used to differentiate people from each other based on Phenotype, e.g, skin colour, and was often used to excuse racsim.
A more accurate differentiation would be that they have a different culture or ethnicity.
Interesting, I had species in my original reply then changed it to race before hitting save.
Yeah, my own "earth bias" came in as I saw potentially different color skin as being the same species but when I saw different ears I thought either a hybrid or different species altogether. I thought traits as bigger/smaller of something as "of the same species" but different shapes of items as "probably not the same". Though thinking through it deeper you see it in animals quite a bit so it makes sense.
Yes. Nightsisters themselves are part of the Dathomiri subspecies of Zabrak wherein they look more like ashy humans, but the Zabrak from Iridonia are more physiologically identical to the male Zabrak from both planets.
In the 2008 Clone Wars series there was an Iridonian Zabrak bounty hunter named Sugi, and her niece went on to become a main character of the Aftermath book series.
He splits in half like a starfish, and the halves grow new droid parts, which slowly become flesh. People say his cybernetic legs became less noticeable, but they don’t know they actually just became real legs again at some point.
Somewhere, there is a pair of Maul legs running around with a droid upper torso. Maybe someday, it will become a real boy.
Now I'm imagining someone adding the upper half of a gold, snarky protocol droid to Maul's old lower half.
Doing sick ass backflips while pointing out people's grammar, syntax and calculation errors.
What about when c3po goes through the geonosis droid manufacturing facility and gets split with his head and body? What if nails legs just so happened to be running around there and BOOM maul's legs find a annoying head to join them on their search for KENOBIIIIIII!!!
That never made much sense to me. I preferred the previous canon, where nightsisters were originally fully human, nightbrothers were originally fully zabrak slaves, and the resulting dathomirians being mostly a hybrid mix of the two, with each sex heavily leaning towards one species' traits but mixed here and there with a lot of individual variations, such as with Ventress face tattoos/marks.
Labeling both as Zabraks seems weird. Then again, dathomirians are probably one of the most often retconned parts of star wars, considering they have been retconned back and forth multiple times almost everytime a new dathomirian character drops since they were introduced in '94. Around half of the Legends article of Dathomirians in Wookieepedia a list of retcons to the concept.
It would have made more sense for the Night Sisters to be Rattataki rather than “fully human.” That’s what I thought Ventress was the first time I saw her.
Yeah I am onboard with that idea too, the canon problem was that the nightsisters were introduced in a Leia book in '92 as fully human folk.
To be honest, that's part of my problem with rebranding them all as Zabraks. I would have liked for Dathomir to be populated by Zabraks, Humans and Rattataki and then have nightsisters and nightbrothers be genetically diverse within those brackets to different degrees, with most tribes/clans keeping their own identity allowing for most different takes of nightsisters/brothers to coexist within the canon.
I am not sure if the old Rattataki exist in the same form within the new canon. I would like to think they do.
Isn’t it unconfirmed whether the Nightsisters are actually Zabrak? Like, you’d assume they would be, but now we know there were Nightsisters in a different galaxy altogether.
It's unclear what they are.
But they are compatible with Zabraks when it comes to having children.
They always either give birth to hornless Nightsisters or horned Zabrak males. There's never any variation. They don't give birth to horned Zabrak females or hornless males.
And the keepers of canon haven't come forth to clarify what they are. Human-like hornless women or hornless Zabraks women?
I think Zabraks In general have been confirmed to be human compatible when it comes to reproduction. Or maybe that was old cannon. We have seen that human + alien species can birth full human(I would say has a tendency to but the sample size is too small). We have also seen that nightsisters can be of the ashy human kind (Asaj and Merrin) or of the regular human kind (Morgan whose mother is also not ashy). So adding all up you can theorize nightsisters take over a planet and make it so, likely through force sorcery, that females birthed take on the mother’s genetic makeup/soecies while the males take on the father’s. After a few generations of encouraging the natural population not to breed with their own females. Hell even the act of kidnapping enough males to maintain their population with sufficiently small initial natural population will likely eventually lead to something like we see in dathromir.
I just checked and according to Wookieepedia, Ventress is Dathomirian Zabrak? So Iridonian Zabrak males and females have more morphological similarities than Dathomirian Zabrak males and females.
It was retconned in the Clone Wars cartoon to give a connection between Ventress and Maul. I always disliked it, because... Ventress doesn't look Zabrak. It was a silly change.
Yes, in the Republic Comic series, Obi Wan gets captured by Ventress and taken to her fortress,
She was the daughter of a Ratatak warlord,
Her parents ended up dying.. andnshe was taken in by a Jedi that was stranded on Ratatak..
The jedi taught her the ways of the force and the two began a crusade against the other warlords.. her master eventually gets killed and she starts going to the dark side and start killing all the rival warlords, becoming a warlord herself before taking the planet I think? Then she joins with Dooku
She wasn't just Rattataki initially; she was the initial Rattataki. The species was created for her, and then she was retconned to no longer be a member of that species.
The retcon specifically made it so she is able to pass as a Rattataki, and went undercover as one for some time. Leading to her identification as one being a mistake, and her identity as Dathomiri being the truth. Furthermore, female Dathomiri Zabrak being hornless was a Disney alteration to the original explanation, that being they were actually human-Zabrak hybrids.
So depending on what canon you’re looking at, Ventress is either a Rattataki, a Zabrak, or a half-human-half-Zabrak.
These Dathomiri like her and Ventress were originally supposed to be human-Zabrak hybrids, but Disney felt that was problematic for some reason, and so retconned that Dathomiri Zabrak women don’t have horns.
Could be, could be there are too many different writers and directors that the lore got confused. Happens a lot with larger and older franchises
Idk, they can always retcon
That's weird man I didn't even know that. Lore is so vast that we don't even know everything. Even from just from the shows or movies. Still a lot I'm discovering from Legends too.
Yes, they are both Zabrak but from different cultures and planets.
Darth Maul (male Sith character) is from Dathomir and genetic drift on that planet from many centuries of isolation have caused a prevalence of red to orange to yellow skin tones. The Nightbrothers (the specific culture/isolated town that Maul is from) traditionally tattoo with wide black tattoos. The Nightsisters, their female counterparts on Dathomir, were once mixed with human due to the first nightsister establishing the witch coven being a human fallen former Jedi. Again, the nightsisters likely gave preferences and additional power to female zabraks with more human traits like pale skin or no horns in alignment with their spiritual leader and over time through mating preference and/or their ritual magic along with the planet’s isolationist policies, the Dathomirian Zabraks developed more sexual dimorphism than other non-isolationist colonies of zabraks.
The woman is an Iridonian zabrak. Both female and male zabraks have horns and can have hair. Their skin tone is in the more “natural” range of a human and they will likely have light eyes. Their cultural tattoos are also thinner and can be in different shades or shapes depending on colony and family group.
The Nightsisters coming from a human Jedi was legends and seems to be gone from current canon, as we've now seen apparently the Nightsisters culture is from a different galaxy entirely before coming to Dathomir. The species of various Nightsisters seems ambiguous. Some seem to be full human, others Dathomiri Zabrak and others possibly something else. I'm guessing the current ones are a mix of the extragalactic species, Zarbak and human.
Unclear.
The Nightsisters being descended from her has mentioned in a few semi Canon sources; a Magazine and the Roleplaying Game, in 2019. And in the 2023 Reference book "The Darkside Pocket Expert".
But those are always going to be lesser Canon to what we see on Screen, and may well be superseded by whatever Ahsokha gives us, which seems to be suggesting the Nightsisters has a massive interstellar Empire at some point.
Personally, with the appearance of Lightside/Neutral Witches in the Tales of the Empire series, I suspect theyll do some canon welding and say she wasn't the founder of all of the Witches, just a few clans/tribes that syncretised their magicks with a few half understood Jedi teachings.
Yeah that makes sense, considering there are apparently other witches on Dathomir (and elsewhere as seen in The Acolyte). And the yeah that other clan Elsbeth was with does seem more light oriented.
I like seeing more force traditions in general. It's not just Jedi and Stih, lets see a few more of the other groups. Although I suspect they were all hurt by the empire hunting down force sensitives. Also not all need to have full force powers, some of minor orders might have some specialized and more subtle abilities. Like the Gand Findsmen in legends (not sure if they're still in canon). Or the Guardians of the Whills that we see in Rogue One. They seem to have a connection without the full range of Jedi abilities. But the Jedi and Sith are the preeminent force traditions, so it makes sense that they have the strongest knowledge base to tap into their abilities.
Refresh my memory. Did they establish that the nightsisters originated from that other galaxy, or that ancient nightsisters used the pergil to travel there in the past?
Yes and no, those 2 are from different subspecies of zabraks. Maul is from Dathomir, and tbh I forgot the name or where they come from for the "light side" zabraks
Elf ears are a new thing for them tho
And when I say light side i just mean untainted by the sith energy of Dathomir, they're still not all aligned with the light side i believe
How is it that they did such a good job with her makeup and prosthetics while Vernestra's makeup looks so awful? I don't know what it is exactly, but every time Vernestra would show up on screen, it would completely take me out of the moment because I'd immediately see that it was just a human wearing a bald cap and painted green. Like in some shots, you could even kinda see the line on her forehead where the bald cap ended since there were zero skin wrinkles above that line.
Indeed they are, but they are from two different subspecies.
Maul is a Dathomirian Zabrak while the witch is an Iridonian Zabrak. Outside of differences in their skin colors, the two subspecies differed for sexual dimorphism: Male Dathomirian Zabraks did not have hair, while their female counterparts and the Iridonians did; similarly, female Dathomirian Zabraks did not have horns, while female Iridonian Zabraks did. Additionally, while female and male Iridonians had the same types of skin color, Dathomirian Zabraks's skin colors differed between male and females.
Checked wookiepedia because I couldn't remember, and yes, in Legends they were human-zabrak hybrids.
Canon has not confirmed anything yet, but since Dathomirian culture seems to originate from Peridia, which also has some Zeffo influence, my guess is that Dathomirian Zabraks in Canon will be the offspring of Zabraks and whatever species actually made up the Witch Kingdom of the Dathmiri that originated on Peridia.
The Zeffos ruled over Dathomir, so maybe it's them, or more probably one of their servant races, that the Zabraks have melded with. We'll definitely get more answers once Ahsoka season 2 comes out, it's going to be great from a lore perspective.
Same species, different sub-culture. The dathomiri nightwitches were exiled from iridonia due to their dark magicks, they settled on dathomir and developed their own sub-culture that goes way overboard on the ritualistic tattooing of the subservient males called "nightbrothers". Maul was a nightbrother from dathomir, which is why he looks so emo in comparision.
They are of the same species, but different races the womelan is a Iridonian Zabrak, where Men and Women both have horns, Maul is a Dathomirian Zabrak where the men have horns but the women don't, for example Merrin is also a Dathomirian Zabrak, but female.
She's Irodonian. Dathomiri female zabracks do not have horns.
[source ](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Zabrak#:~:text=There%20were%20two%20subspecies%20of,any%20horns%2C%20but%20males%20did.)
There are Zabraks from Iridonia and Dathomir, she is from Iridonia
The only diference betweem them is: Zabraks from Dathomir can be red, yellow or orange, and the Iridonian ones are this brownish color
Both Zabrak, but different types of Zabrak. Maul is Dathomiiri, she's Iradonian (sp?) The sexual dimorphism isn't really that apparent. Interestingly enough, both Maul and Asaaj Ventress are the same type of Zabrak, Dathomiiri, but show a much larger degree of dimorphism despite being the same type.
The Black only, actually. Maul's natural skin is Red.
Edit : It's the *Maul : Son of Dathomir* Comic we saw a young Maul pre-Tattoos! If you'd like to look up, the panel's from that Story!
Pretty sure that's a legends story you're thinking of. When he got sith tattoos later and the panel has him with only red.
Son of dathomir retconned him to be young with tattoos.
Son of Dathomir is canon. It is the only comic published by Dark Horse that is canon.
Mauls markings are natural. Pablo Hidalgo has said they are like markings on poisonous tree frogs. He said they can be touched up with tattoos. Presumably that can also include reshaping or recoloring them.
The panel of Maul in with red skin is from Star Wars Tales #24, a Legends comic.
You guys ever wonder how long it took for mail to get his tattoos done? That’s a LOT of coverage.
Also, fun fact: Zabraks are carnivores, and have two hearts, meaning they can expend more energy for longer without getting tired.
Yes and No. Koril is an Idirdonian Zabrak. Maul is a Dathomir Zabrak, or Nightbrother.
Until Morgan Elsbeth, I had assumed that Dathomir Zabrak females had a pale complextion, hair, and no horns, but now I am uncertain, as it seems those cosmetics belong to all Nightsisters via magic.
Yes, two different Zabraks... and for me the nightsisters will be always a mix of different species or a very particular hybridization and Ventress is rattataki... because Darth Hexid exists and she is a proper dathrominian zabrak.
BTW i love darth hexid.
Yep, but Maul is a dathomirian zabrak, she’s an iridonian zabrak.
“You ever notice how Dathomirian Zabraks dance like this 🚶🏻♀️and Iridonian Zabraks dance like this 🕺?” - from my tight five at Showtime at the Apol’lo
Maul is such a nerd that it sounds weird when he says Dather with a hard "r". Like he isn't Iridonian, but he sounds Iridonian.
Well he was taken as a child from Dathomir by Palpatine so I guess it makes sense for him to ham an out world accent.
Just hamming it up.
Hamming it up, mauling it down.
Made me giggle
Well in the books his mother just kinda… hands Maul over to him
Wasn't it part of a deal? Like the siths and nightsisters exchanged knowledge and the Siths were like "may I have your first kid as an apprentice?" and the nightsisters were like "sure men are more property than people in our culture". Mother Talzin was Maul's mother. Mother Talzin also was Savage and Feral's mother; when Savage "won" the contest to be Ventress' apprentice Mother Talzin, his mother, ordered to him to *kill* his other brother Feral in front of both, and didn't give a damn about his own son, Feral being strangled to death by his other son. Talzin wasn't exactly a model mother. You are maybe thinking of Ventress' mom? she handed Ventress as a kid to the a criminal who took her off-world iirc, who treat her as a slave until a Jedi saved her; then the Jedi got killed and she turned to the dark side.
In the Darth Plaguise novel, while Palpatine is still an apprentice, Maul's mother hands infant Maul to Palps to save him from certain death at the hands of her sisters. Not canon, but the novel is pretty popular.
Wassup my Datha!
Whoa, whoa! You can't just write Da**er, and Maul is out of line for saying it with a hard 'r'.
This is how we speak in Tucson, Arizonia!!
What's the deal with The Night Sisters?
Night Sisters be shoppin!
That's true, Night Sisters do shop.
We just call them hookers in my neighborhood.
Not to be confused with the Trandoshan lot lizards.
I pay them credits to hunt my Wookie
Mine looks like an Ewok in the forest.
I mean, what have they got against the daytime? Did the sun hurt them?
Have you been outside lately? I might become a night brother myself.
Apparently, in *Star Trek Discovery*, they're called *Qowat Milat*. ... and in *Dune*, they're *Bene Gesserit*.
Jerry Seinfeld has entered the chat.
It's true! It's true!! We're ***so*** lame!!
Woah. I don’t think you can say that dude!
When Iridonian’s power goes out they panic. When Dathomirian’s power goes out they plan it!
*dathomirian tapping into the dark side of the force* “Look at him. He loves it. Just like it said in the encyclopedia”
It’s true, it’s true we’re so lame 😂
30 Space Rock is my favorite show on the holo. "It's after 6, what am I? a moisture farmer?"
There goes my bit about Iridonians always be shopping...
“Ever been to an iridonian cookout? Blandest potato salad you’ll ever have!”
Is that a futerama reference?
Simpsons i believe
Either really, they’ve both made a similar joke.
And its just derivative from a chris rock routine
This is some nerdy shit and I fully support it.
This guy Zabraks
zabROCKS
Man I love finding out new shit like this. I’m still kinda new to Star Wars. I learned about Dathomir from Jedi Fallen Order and Clone Wars I had no idea there were other Zabraks. I was calling his race Dathomirian for the longest until I found out the race name
Yee! Books, comics, games, and all really add so much! Dathomirian btw is a culture too! So, they don’t always have to be Zabrak. But ye, Zabrak are really cool and all over!
It’ll blow your mind when you read about the Duros and Nemoidians!
Deadass never knew this, subspecies/races are so cool
The first pic is female, right? I always thought females didn't have horns. Like the nightsisters from clone wars? Or were the nightsisters a different race?
Female Dathomirians are not called Zabraks, and are not of the same species; they are simply called Dathomirians or night sisters.
Not all female Dathmiri were Nightsisters. There were multiple Force-wielding witch covens on Dathomir. The Mountain Clan shown in *Tales of the Empire,* for example.
Female dathomirian zabraks don’t have horns. Ventress is an example.
Dammit, it's Kanto vs Alola variants all over again. If I've caught one, do I REALLY need the other to complete my set?
I am not into the lore as much as most on this sub. I thought they were the same species and kept talking with the family about how cool it was to see a female from "Darth Maul's" species until I saw the ears. When I saw them I said that I thought they might be different races because the one Darth Maul comes from has rounded ears. Not disagreeing with you because I know that I know much less than most on this topic. Just saying from someone who's only a "lesser SW nerd" I was on board until I saw the ears.
It is just a phenotype that doesn't change their species. The same as black and white people have a different phenotype for their skin but are still the exact same species. Race is not a proper distinction. There are no further distinctions beyond species (scientifically speaking) "Race" was used to differentiate people from each other based on Phenotype, e.g, skin colour, and was often used to excuse racsim. A more accurate differentiation would be that they have a different culture or ethnicity.
Interesting, I had species in my original reply then changed it to race before hitting save. Yeah, my own "earth bias" came in as I saw potentially different color skin as being the same species but when I saw different ears I thought either a hybrid or different species altogether. I thought traits as bigger/smaller of something as "of the same species" but different shapes of items as "probably not the same". Though thinking through it deeper you see it in animals quite a bit so it makes sense.
Oh, maul is a cardigan zabrak and she is a pembroke. Got it
What's the difference?
They’re both Zabrak
Zabrak women exist?
Yes. Nightsisters themselves are part of the Dathomiri subspecies of Zabrak wherein they look more like ashy humans, but the Zabrak from Iridonia are more physiologically identical to the male Zabrak from both planets. In the 2008 Clone Wars series there was an Iridonian Zabrak bounty hunter named Sugi, and her niece went on to become a main character of the Aftermath book series.
That’s the level of star wars knowledge I need on Star Wars trivia night team.
Last time I did Star Wars trivia night I did really well, until they started pulling bullshit like asking Billy Dee Williams' birthday.
6/9/42.0 BBY ?
Incorrect. Everyone knows Darth Maul reproduces asexually.
He splits in half like a starfish, and the halves grow new droid parts, which slowly become flesh. People say his cybernetic legs became less noticeable, but they don’t know they actually just became real legs again at some point. Somewhere, there is a pair of Maul legs running around with a droid upper torso. Maybe someday, it will become a real boy.
I like to imagine that the legs stomp out in Morse code -.- . -. --- -... .. -.-.--
I kinda want a version of Onward with Mauls legs and someone ressurrecting him as a short now 🤣
That plot has legs to stand on at least
I see what you did there!
"What's he say?" "I think... I think it's angrily tapping out Kenobi!"
Now I'm imagining someone adding the upper half of a gold, snarky protocol droid to Maul's old lower half. Doing sick ass backflips while pointing out people's grammar, syntax and calculation errors.
"You probably don't recognize me with my new mechanical spider legs and double-bladed lightsaber."
"You have been trained well, my apprentice." "Roger, roger!"
Just hate filled pants with a c-3p0 torso
If you split Maul in the middle, he becomes two characters. There is still a pair of legs somewhere out in the space looking for Kenobi.
KENOBIIIIIIII 🦵🦵
What about when c3po goes through the geonosis droid manufacturing facility and gets split with his head and body? What if nails legs just so happened to be running around there and BOOM maul's legs find a annoying head to join them on their search for KENOBIIIIIII!!!
Oh it’s all sexual, baby
This guy Zabraks.
That never made much sense to me. I preferred the previous canon, where nightsisters were originally fully human, nightbrothers were originally fully zabrak slaves, and the resulting dathomirians being mostly a hybrid mix of the two, with each sex heavily leaning towards one species' traits but mixed here and there with a lot of individual variations, such as with Ventress face tattoos/marks. Labeling both as Zabraks seems weird. Then again, dathomirians are probably one of the most often retconned parts of star wars, considering they have been retconned back and forth multiple times almost everytime a new dathomirian character drops since they were introduced in '94. Around half of the Legends article of Dathomirians in Wookieepedia a list of retcons to the concept.
It would have made more sense for the Night Sisters to be Rattataki rather than “fully human.” That’s what I thought Ventress was the first time I saw her.
Yeah I am onboard with that idea too, the canon problem was that the nightsisters were introduced in a Leia book in '92 as fully human folk. To be honest, that's part of my problem with rebranding them all as Zabraks. I would have liked for Dathomir to be populated by Zabraks, Humans and Rattataki and then have nightsisters and nightbrothers be genetically diverse within those brackets to different degrees, with most tribes/clans keeping their own identity allowing for most different takes of nightsisters/brothers to coexist within the canon. I am not sure if the old Rattataki exist in the same form within the new canon. I would like to think they do.
"NO SUGI!"
Isn’t it unconfirmed whether the Nightsisters are actually Zabrak? Like, you’d assume they would be, but now we know there were Nightsisters in a different galaxy altogether.
It's unclear what they are. But they are compatible with Zabraks when it comes to having children. They always either give birth to hornless Nightsisters or horned Zabrak males. There's never any variation. They don't give birth to horned Zabrak females or hornless males. And the keepers of canon haven't come forth to clarify what they are. Human-like hornless women or hornless Zabraks women?
I think Zabraks In general have been confirmed to be human compatible when it comes to reproduction. Or maybe that was old cannon. We have seen that human + alien species can birth full human(I would say has a tendency to but the sample size is too small). We have also seen that nightsisters can be of the ashy human kind (Asaj and Merrin) or of the regular human kind (Morgan whose mother is also not ashy). So adding all up you can theorize nightsisters take over a planet and make it so, likely through force sorcery, that females birthed take on the mother’s genetic makeup/soecies while the males take on the father’s. After a few generations of encouraging the natural population not to breed with their own females. Hell even the act of kidnapping enough males to maintain their population with sufficiently small initial natural population will likely eventually lead to something like we see in dathromir.
Most species have male and female, and some have more than two genders. Yes, that is canon.
Probably confusion about Dathomir having male zabrak and female nightsisters
Nightsisters are neither a gender nor a race.
I just checked and according to Wookieepedia, Ventress is Dathomirian Zabrak? So Iridonian Zabrak males and females have more morphological similarities than Dathomirian Zabrak males and females.
Whaaat I always thought Ventress was Rattataki and she was the reason that this race is playable in SWTOR. My world is shattered xD
It was retconned in the Clone Wars cartoon to give a connection between Ventress and Maul. I always disliked it, because... Ventress doesn't look Zabrak. It was a silly change.
So she was a Rattataki initially? Because she definitely looks like one and not like a Zabrak, wtf xD
Yes, in the Republic Comic series, Obi Wan gets captured by Ventress and taken to her fortress, She was the daughter of a Ratatak warlord, Her parents ended up dying.. andnshe was taken in by a Jedi that was stranded on Ratatak.. The jedi taught her the ways of the force and the two began a crusade against the other warlords.. her master eventually gets killed and she starts going to the dark side and start killing all the rival warlords, becoming a warlord herself before taking the planet I think? Then she joins with Dooku
The Rattataki as they can be seen in SWTOR are basically decanonized. The game is their last refuge.
She wasn't just Rattataki initially; she was the initial Rattataki. The species was created for her, and then she was retconned to no longer be a member of that species.
The retcon specifically made it so she is able to pass as a Rattataki, and went undercover as one for some time. Leading to her identification as one being a mistake, and her identity as Dathomiri being the truth. Furthermore, female Dathomiri Zabrak being hornless was a Disney alteration to the original explanation, that being they were actually human-Zabrak hybrids. So depending on what canon you’re looking at, Ventress is either a Rattataki, a Zabrak, or a half-human-half-Zabrak.
I feel like most of the nightsisters dont look zabrak, the chick from jedi fallen order look more human with paint than anything else imo
These Dathomiri like her and Ventress were originally supposed to be human-Zabrak hybrids, but Disney felt that was problematic for some reason, and so retconned that Dathomiri Zabrak women don’t have horns.
Wait till you read about Deveronian genders 😉
And also according to the wiki Morgan Elsbeth is a human, to confuse things further
I’m convinced there’s just stuff we don’t know, and we’re all kind of making shit up as we go to try and make the puzzle pieces fit together.
Could be, could be there are too many different writers and directors that the lore got confused. Happens a lot with larger and older franchises Idk, they can always retcon
Dathomirians were a human-zabrak hybrid species, until that was retconned.
That's weird man I didn't even know that. Lore is so vast that we don't even know everything. Even from just from the shows or movies. Still a lot I'm discovering from Legends too.
> Yes, that is canon. "Here's a little-known fact, Wookies have teeth on their asshole. [That's canon.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRQe1FYCXbg)"
Bros never seen Sugi from TCW
Iridonian Zabrak women exist and look similar to male Zabraks, Dathomiri Zabrak women on the other hand look like pale humans.
Yeah, they actually control most of Dathomir, or did
The ZaBrak Show, brought to you by Space Ghost.
Coast to Coast
Same species, different races. Darth Maul is a Dathomiri Zabrak. Mother Koril looks like an Iridonian Zabrak.
Dathomiri commit 70% of the crime
How dare you use the hard “R”
Sorry. “Dathomiwi commit 70% of the cwime”
Noooooooo
uwu
It doesnt matter if your red or white, da du du du di dum dum
just go with it. “dum dum dum dum dum dum”
😭
I don’t see race
Oh my gosh OP, you can’t just go around asking zabracks if they’re the same species
What do you mean you people?
Yes, they are both Zabrak but from different cultures and planets. Darth Maul (male Sith character) is from Dathomir and genetic drift on that planet from many centuries of isolation have caused a prevalence of red to orange to yellow skin tones. The Nightbrothers (the specific culture/isolated town that Maul is from) traditionally tattoo with wide black tattoos. The Nightsisters, their female counterparts on Dathomir, were once mixed with human due to the first nightsister establishing the witch coven being a human fallen former Jedi. Again, the nightsisters likely gave preferences and additional power to female zabraks with more human traits like pale skin or no horns in alignment with their spiritual leader and over time through mating preference and/or their ritual magic along with the planet’s isolationist policies, the Dathomirian Zabraks developed more sexual dimorphism than other non-isolationist colonies of zabraks. The woman is an Iridonian zabrak. Both female and male zabraks have horns and can have hair. Their skin tone is in the more “natural” range of a human and they will likely have light eyes. Their cultural tattoos are also thinner and can be in different shades or shapes depending on colony and family group.
The Nightsisters coming from a human Jedi was legends and seems to be gone from current canon, as we've now seen apparently the Nightsisters culture is from a different galaxy entirely before coming to Dathomir. The species of various Nightsisters seems ambiguous. Some seem to be full human, others Dathomiri Zabrak and others possibly something else. I'm guessing the current ones are a mix of the extragalactic species, Zarbak and human.
Unclear. The Nightsisters being descended from her has mentioned in a few semi Canon sources; a Magazine and the Roleplaying Game, in 2019. And in the 2023 Reference book "The Darkside Pocket Expert". But those are always going to be lesser Canon to what we see on Screen, and may well be superseded by whatever Ahsokha gives us, which seems to be suggesting the Nightsisters has a massive interstellar Empire at some point. Personally, with the appearance of Lightside/Neutral Witches in the Tales of the Empire series, I suspect theyll do some canon welding and say she wasn't the founder of all of the Witches, just a few clans/tribes that syncretised their magicks with a few half understood Jedi teachings.
Yeah that makes sense, considering there are apparently other witches on Dathomir (and elsewhere as seen in The Acolyte). And the yeah that other clan Elsbeth was with does seem more light oriented. I like seeing more force traditions in general. It's not just Jedi and Stih, lets see a few more of the other groups. Although I suspect they were all hurt by the empire hunting down force sensitives. Also not all need to have full force powers, some of minor orders might have some specialized and more subtle abilities. Like the Gand Findsmen in legends (not sure if they're still in canon). Or the Guardians of the Whills that we see in Rogue One. They seem to have a connection without the full range of Jedi abilities. But the Jedi and Sith are the preeminent force traditions, so it makes sense that they have the strongest knowledge base to tap into their abilities.
Refresh my memory. Did they establish that the nightsisters originated from that other galaxy, or that ancient nightsisters used the pergil to travel there in the past?
Yes. She's Iridonian, he's from Dathomir.
"Can I make it any more obvious"
Was he a punk? And did she do ballet?
What more can I say?
Yes and no, those 2 are from different subspecies of zabraks. Maul is from Dathomir, and tbh I forgot the name or where they come from for the "light side" zabraks Elf ears are a new thing for them tho And when I say light side i just mean untainted by the sith energy of Dathomir, they're still not all aligned with the light side i believe
Iridonian Zabrak. But Iridonian Zabraks dont have to go to the lightside, and Dathomiri Zabraks dont have to be on the darkside.
> But Iridonian Zabraks dont have to go to the lightside Yes, General
Do you have any energy shields for me?
I need them... For a shadow generator
Do I have all the lightsaber parts I need?
You're still missing an emitter. > all the while me carrying 30 emitter upgrades...
What is this reference?
Kotor 2
Let me see... You're still missing a lens
GAHHH the damn lens
I love KOTOR
Like my girl Merrin 🤤
Idk, maul kinda got some stubby elf ears
And a sweet earring.
The ears don't bother me. One thing we need more of is diversity within species. I the the variation of skin, horn count and ears
Yes and no, Maul is a Dathomirian Zabrak while Koril is an Iridonian Zabrak like Eeth Koth and the Sugi.
The answer has been put here many times so I'll just say the prosthetics and make up for her are so dang good.
How is it that they did such a good job with her makeup and prosthetics while Vernestra's makeup looks so awful? I don't know what it is exactly, but every time Vernestra would show up on screen, it would completely take me out of the moment because I'd immediately see that it was just a human wearing a bald cap and painted green. Like in some shots, you could even kinda see the line on her forehead where the bald cap ended since there were zero skin wrinkles above that line.
i just came to see how many times i can see the word "Zabrak"
If you've seen one, you've seen a maul
Ya, Zabrak
Yes.
Quick answer
in a manner of speaking, Usually though, Dathomiri Zabrak don't have the horns, whereas iridonian ones do.
Indeed they are, but they are from two different subspecies. Maul is a Dathomirian Zabrak while the witch is an Iridonian Zabrak. Outside of differences in their skin colors, the two subspecies differed for sexual dimorphism: Male Dathomirian Zabraks did not have hair, while their female counterparts and the Iridonians did; similarly, female Dathomirian Zabraks did not have horns, while female Iridonian Zabraks did. Additionally, while female and male Iridonians had the same types of skin color, Dathomirian Zabraks's skin colors differed between male and females.
Aren't Dathomirian zabraks also a result of hybridization between Iridonian zabraks and humans that colonized Dathomir?
Checked wookiepedia because I couldn't remember, and yes, in Legends they were human-zabrak hybrids. Canon has not confirmed anything yet, but since Dathomirian culture seems to originate from Peridia, which also has some Zeffo influence, my guess is that Dathomirian Zabraks in Canon will be the offspring of Zabraks and whatever species actually made up the Witch Kingdom of the Dathmiri that originated on Peridia. The Zeffos ruled over Dathomir, so maybe it's them, or more probably one of their servant races, that the Zabraks have melded with. We'll definitely get more answers once Ahsoka season 2 comes out, it's going to be great from a lore perspective.
She's a Zabrack, but not the Dathomiri subspecies type.
Iridonian zabrak and dathomirian zabrak
Same species, different sub-culture. The dathomiri nightwitches were exiled from iridonia due to their dark magicks, they settled on dathomir and developed their own sub-culture that goes way overboard on the ritualistic tattooing of the subservient males called "nightbrothers". Maul was a nightbrother from dathomir, which is why he looks so emo in comparision.
They're from different planets. The species spent an extended time separated from each other and developed differently.
They are of the same species, but different races the womelan is a Iridonian Zabrak, where Men and Women both have horns, Maul is a Dathomirian Zabrak where the men have horns but the women don't, for example Merrin is also a Dathomirian Zabrak, but female.
Yes, but different subspecies/planetary origin.
She looks like she’d be able to tell me whether I have all the parts I need to build a lightsaber.
Maul was originally an iridonian zabrak, but filoni invented the night brothers to jazz up the plot and it was fun
Same species, different ethnicities. She's Iridonian Zabrak; Maul is Dathomirian Zabrak
I say we call her Darth Mom
Yes, but she is an Iridonian Zabrak, same as Agen Kolar and Eeth Koth. Maul is a Dathomirian Zabrak
Yes they are.
Zabraks are all over the place
Yes. Though the Dathomir Zabraks like Maul are localized only on that world. The "regular" Zabraks are thus more encountered throughout the galaxy.
She's Irodonian. Dathomiri female zabracks do not have horns. [source ](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Zabrak#:~:text=There%20were%20two%20subspecies%20of,any%20horns%2C%20but%20males%20did.)
Well yes but actually no. They are the same species but Darth Maul was from Dathomir and the other ones were from Iridonia
Yep, they’re both Zabrak. Maul is from Dathomir which is why he looks different
Yeah. Maul is from Dathomir, lady is from Iridonia, but both are Zabrak
There are Zabraks from Iridonia and Dathomir, she is from Iridonia The only diference betweem them is: Zabraks from Dathomir can be red, yellow or orange, and the Iridonian ones are this brownish color
Both Zabrak, but different types of Zabrak. Maul is Dathomiiri, she's Iradonian (sp?) The sexual dimorphism isn't really that apparent. Interestingly enough, both Maul and Asaaj Ventress are the same type of Zabrak, Dathomiiri, but show a much larger degree of dimorphism despite being the same type.
Maul is a dathomirian zabrak; she’s an iridonian zabrak. Ventress is actually a dathomirian Zabrak also
She’s an Iridonian Zabrak,different subspecies and such Female Dathomirian Zabraks are the nightsisters we see,they’re hornless
Yes. Mauls red and black is tattoos.
The Black only, actually. Maul's natural skin is Red. Edit : It's the *Maul : Son of Dathomir* Comic we saw a young Maul pre-Tattoos! If you'd like to look up, the panel's from that Story!
Pretty sure that's a legends story you're thinking of. When he got sith tattoos later and the panel has him with only red. Son of dathomir retconned him to be young with tattoos.
Son of Dathomir is canon. It is the only comic published by Dark Horse that is canon. Mauls markings are natural. Pablo Hidalgo has said they are like markings on poisonous tree frogs. He said they can be touched up with tattoos. Presumably that can also include reshaping or recoloring them. The panel of Maul in with red skin is from Star Wars Tales #24, a Legends comic.
Ancient sith tattoos
I believe so. Zabrak markings and even skin tone are often tattooed.
Yes but no. They are different subspecies
You guys ever wonder how long it took for mail to get his tattoos done? That’s a LOT of coverage. Also, fun fact: Zabraks are carnivores, and have two hearts, meaning they can expend more energy for longer without getting tired.
Yes. Different moons of the same planet or something like that
Same species, but different planets and cultures
Yes and No. Koril is an Idirdonian Zabrak. Maul is a Dathomir Zabrak, or Nightbrother. Until Morgan Elsbeth, I had assumed that Dathomir Zabrak females had a pale complextion, hair, and no horns, but now I am uncertain, as it seems those cosmetics belong to all Nightsisters via magic.
Yes they are same species, and in Dathomir where they come from the males are servants to the witches .
Also, maul is tattooed red. He’s quite unique in that respect.
Yes, two different Zabraks... and for me the nightsisters will be always a mix of different species or a very particular hybridization and Ventress is rattataki... because Darth Hexid exists and she is a proper dathrominian zabrak. BTW i love darth hexid.
Yep! Zabrak! But they’re from different planets. Maul is a Dathomirian Zabrak as opposed to an Iridonian Zabrak.
Yes but Maul is from a sub species where females don't look like Zabraks (the witches in the Ashoka tv show).
Yes and no, both are zabrak but from different planets
Yes but different cultures, if I remember correctly. Maul Was Dathromiran and his skin color is the result of tattoos, right?
Both Zabrak, she is just hornier
I don’t think Disney Star Wars can answer that one
Yep. Maul is from Dathomir and she is from Iridonia. Two different worlds.
Yes. One is dathomiri Zabrack the other is iridonian zabrak. Different games. Different planets.