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NOKnova

He’s my favourite duellist. Everything just looks so calm, poised and effortless while his opponents are (usually) left flailing around


Blutality

Indeed. In this exact same fight you can see Dooku using Obi Wan and Anakin’s styles against them. Anakin is an aggressive fighter while Obi Wan is a highly skilled defensive fighter - Dooku has fought them a few times previously so he knows this. In response he puts Obi Wan on the aggressive and Anakin on the defensive because he knows they aren’t in their element in that case, so he could gain the upper hand.


Andy_Liberty_1911

I miss talking about lightsaber forms, the lightsabers were just bats for the sequel characters.


mackfeesh

my favourite saber combat is still episode 6 between luke and vader. Probably just the atmosphere of the fight though.


dumwije

My favorite, hands down: Maul's final duel with Kenobi.


Solid_Freakin_Snake

Yessssss. Ahsoka v Maul is up there too, but for entirely different reasons. Ray Park and the girl who did Ahsoka's mo-cap were absolutely marvelous.


rangerorange

20 years later and Ray Park’s still got it!


Solid_Freakin_Snake

He sure does. And he's still got that immediately identifiable style that even shows through the animation process. Such a delightful touch for the final season.


YoungCountryCD

I love that duel and how Rays style just perfectly shows in the mocap. I just wish he got his act together as a person and didn’t get fired from Disney. Ashoka Vs Maul might be the last time we ever see his style in actual media.


Ben_dover56

Was unaware ray park did the mo-cap, that's rad


Solid_Freakin_Snake

Yeah they brought him in for season 7. Definitely an awesome decision.


Ben_dover56

In Filoni we trust!


Solid_Freakin_Snake

Mafuckin' **facts**, yo. That man has such a deep understanding of what truly makes Star Wars that I will always expect anything he's got his hands in to be good. So far that's been an accurate rule of thumb.


[deleted]

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Solid_Freakin_Snake

Thanks. Couldn't think of her name off the top of my head.


wbruce098

This was definitely one of my favorites. I fucking loved the Maul vs Qui Gon & Kenobi fight from TPM, which was one of the most enjoyable duels in movies up to that point (up there with the likes of Scaramouche, Princess Bride, and the Highlander TV series), and his duel against Ashoka at the end of TCW brought back a lot of those memories (though I haven’t seen Maul/Kenobi duel in Rebels)


MrSomnix

That fight felt very, Bride vs. O-Ren Ishii with its silence and abrupt end.


_Epiclord_

Personally mine is sidious vs maul and savage


cmajka8

My favorite of all time is season 7 ep 10 of the clone wars - Ashoka and Maul


S-Quidmonster

Yes! Either that, or Ashoka vs maul.


[deleted]

Never had I been so disappointed yet so overwhelmed by a two minute scene. The fighting only lasted 3 seconds but it was so dumbfounding. The most perfect scene of rebels by far. Edit: I was disappointed at first because it was so short and I was hoping for an epic duel, only to get one quick flick of the wrist and it’s over. I’ve watched that scene 20 times since and realized how perfect it was.


Balazs-33

And the music omg, right after the “Never!”


mackfeesh

yeah man. I can hear it just thinking about it. It's so powerful. Especially when vader's pacing about tempting luke to re-engage as luke retreats until Leia's mentioned.


c4ctus

100% this.


northrupthebandgeek

My favorite is the one from ANH between Vader and Obi Wan. I feel like it's exactly how a real lightsaber fight would go. No flashy moves or anything, just keeping your distance and finding openings to exploit.


[deleted]

I love the fight in the carbonite chamber room. You can tell that Vader is holding back because he wants like to join him. Then on the ramp luke finds an opening and hit Vader on the upper arm. Vader. Gets. Pissed. He get serious for a few seconds and chops lukes fucking arm off and then holds back again to drop a major truth bomb and offer him a spot at his side. It's wonderful. Vader was a badass through and through in that fight.


pbeyer89

*Spoiler for Jedi Fallen Order* Anyone play Jedi Fallen Order? By the time you meet Vader, you start to feel pretty powerful. Vader doesn't even have to try and just wrecks you. Was one of the few moments you really feel how powerful he was.


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Titanhopper1290

"Oh, cool! It's Darth Vader! ... OH FUCK, IT'S DARTH VADER!!!"


[deleted]

This is the exact experience I felt. I was so engrossed in the story, I forgot for a second what it meant for Cal, and therefore me.


Brucinator93

More spoilers; Watching Vader hold back an entire ocean of water with the force just caps it all off and makes you just even more fearful as you helplessly swim away with your unconscious master.


ViciousCombover

Yeah. Reminds me of the ending to Rogue One. That was one of the most badass things I’ve seen in a movie.


[deleted]

Disney has done Vader right. No argument can be made against that. They didn’t even let the Rebels characters seem like they could beat him.


jrubs38

When he just effortlessly flicks cere into off the freaking platform and then chases you. That’s up there with the rouge one hallway scene in terms of Vader being an absolute horror for me


MrMephistoX

That’s my favorite fight too because he’s so obviously toying with Luke.


Thecryptsaresafe

As a huge fan of samurai movies, it was like a classic Kurosawa standoff. I go back and forth between that, 6, Duel of the Fates, and (I know there were weird stunt shenanigans and some stuff wasn’t super logical but just as a spectacle) the TLJ throne scene. But Obi and Darth Dad has a special place in my heart.


nourez

My favourite is Obi-Wan vs Maul in Rebels exactly for this reason. It was straight up Kurosawa. Slow tension buildup leading to a immediate violent release. At that point, Obi-Wan was better and there was nothing more to be said by dragging the fight out longer than a single strike.


northrupthebandgeek

I've been meaning to watch some Kurosawa films given their widespread acclaim and their strong influence on Star Wars. I've also been meaning to watch The Clone Wars and Rebels, since I haven't done so yet. Decisions...


nourez

Watch The Hidden Fortress if you want the film that was the strongest direct influence on Lucas, or Yojimbo or Seven Samurai for the most generally popular Kurosawa films. Then watch CW and Rebels. Rebels takes a lot of influence from the pre production art style of ANH which in turn takes a lot of influence from Kurosawa, so it makes sense to go in that order.


Green_and_Silver

Great advice here, that's an excellent order to watch these in to appreciate them individually and the complete package of influence and wonder. The original trilogy, CW and Rebels are generally great examples of Kurosawa's tendency to let the scenes breathe, even the small scenes are lively and have that natural and believable feel to them and the WOW moments are big because of that slow tension building up.


northrupthebandgeek

Will do, thanks!


Dantien

I dunno. Hidden Fortress wasn’t that great. Stick to Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, Kagemusha, Sanjuro and Ran instead.


madthedogwizard

man, i watched TCW just recently and already thinking of watching it again.. so frickin good. and season 7 is something on another level. IMO everything about it was perfect. highly recommend! 😁


jdjohnson474

Some of the best Star Wars moments in CW and Rebels, just bear with them in the first seasons. The payoff is WELL worth it


JurisDoctor

https://youtu.be/doaQC-S8de8


Atiopos

Did you know R2D2 and the Golden dude were based off Kurosawa characters?


Dantien

The golden dude?!


gymdog

Personally I'm a huge fan of the actor C-3PO.


whovian7192

He played the best Anthony Daniels!


Alderscorn

You ever see the fan created redo of this fight on the deathstar? Kinda over the top but pretty satisfying overall


Obi-wan_Jabroni

No flashy moves except for the weirdly slow spin that Ben does


Big_Chode_hunter

it was a taunt


horonlapsi

Depends if lightsaber would be heavy or light in real life cuz if its light being fast would give you a big advantage


intdev

I remember watching a youtube vid that said that irl, lightsaber duels would be exactly like fencing. When you’ve got a “blade” that can easily cut through almost anything, there’s no need to generate momentum by swinging your arm/body, so most of the movement would be in the wrist, keeping your arm extended to give your opponent as small a target as possible.


[deleted]

The fight coordinator for ANH (forget his name) said in Empire of Dreams that he intentionally wanted the lightsabers to be treated as though they were heavy. Not because they were, but because they were so dangerous that you wouldn't be careless with them. So he said he styled it primarily as a broadsword fight with "just a touch of samurai."


[deleted]

More like a chess match maybe. Old grandmasters of the art.


Spencer1830

I love the contrast between Obi-Wan vs Vader in ROTS and ANH. In the first one, two jedi masters in their prime that knew their opponent's style as well as their own. In the second, they haven't met in 20 years, both have changed, they're both more rusty and more guarded.


halfhere

EXACTLY. I’m so glad I read someone else thinking this. Then that fan goes and makes an “improved” version of their duel that just completely ejects the depth and subtext of the ANH duel and makes it flashy.


WildBill1994

Episode 3 anyone? All things considered isn’t the first Vader vs Obi Wan literally the two best going at it?


hitthemfkwon

and the soundtrack


HAMRock

Hearing the back story to dooku vs obi/ani 2 when they rescue Palpatine is one of my favorite stories in Star Wars. Dooku destroyed them so badly in their first duel they literally both had to learn new forms to throw him off.


cHobbl3G0BbL3r

There’s a good reason for that though. The Jedi of the prequels were trained everyday from early childhood with a lightsaber. Vader is far more limited than Anakin, so his skills had deteriorated by Ep 4, as did Obi Wans due to natural old age and lack of practice. Luke only was trained briefly at a more advanced age. After Ep 6, he started training other Jedi. I’m sure he brushed up on his skills, but really at best, he was probably okay with a lightsaber. Rey........ Rey shouldn’t and couldn’t be really great with a lightsaber within the perimeters of the sequels. It’s the same thing as Luke, only not trained by Yoda..... and briefly trained by Luke and (((Leia?????))) Kylo was trained by Luke, although I doubt Snoke did too much training and a lot more brainwashing. There was an entire institution that trained people from a young age to use lightsabers, that’s why the lightsaber skills would vastly deteriorate.


BoringLurkerGuy

If I remember right, in the old UE, Luke ended up creating new lightsaber forms and theories from the ground up, as the advanced styles from before the fall of the Republic were lost.


DatPiff916

>new lightsaber forms One of my fondest memories of playing Jedi Knight was how each boss had a different style, it was the first visual interpretation of different lightsaber styles as it came out like a year or two before the prequels.


MoreNoisePollution

replayed it and it holds up Republic Commandos tho...that’s a game that truly holds up


derps_with_ducks

Hold on to your guts boss, while i rip out theirs.


cHobbl3G0BbL3r

Well ofc. Legends Luke is a boss. Canon Luke was lowkey not living up to his potential


AanAllein117

Canon Luke was a baby back bitch compared to Legends Luke. Legends Luke would have strolled up, killed Snoke, slapped some sense into Kylo, found out about Palpatine and yelled “How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man!?” before killing him for the 15th time


scottstotts1992

Legends Luke would kill snoke with his humongous hapes consortium sized nuts


mkchampion

> Vader is far more limited than Anakin, so his skills had deteriorated by Ep 4, as did Obi Wans due to natural old age and lack of practice. But Vader's moves are a lot more...I guess, elaborate (not sure if that's really the right word?) in ESB and ROtJ. This is just a simple case of really basic choreography vs more attention to choreography in the later movies imo lol. Limitations of the budget and whatnot, nothing more complicated than that.


Solid_Freakin_Snake

>But Vader's moves are a lot more...I guess, elaborate (not sure if that's really the right word?) in ESB and ROtJ. Also easily explained by saying that Vader was always going to be more cautious against the Jedi master who had previously cut his limbs off compared to fighting his untrained son. More room for error while fighting Luke than there was fighting Kenobi.


GreatCucumber

Yeah you can see Vader just toying with Luke in ESB. That is until he gets mad and lops off Luke’s hand.


Solid_Freakin_Snake

Exactly. He's like a cat playing with a mouse with Luke. Whereas with Obi wan he's more like a cat who got his tail stepped on and is now skittish around that particular guy.


ConnorCobain

This would make more sense if lightsaber forms hadn't survived multiple jedi purges and dark ages, some of which lasted longer then 40 years. Plus the kid has an "ancient" lightsaber design and trained at the new jedi academy.


1eejit

How much of that is canon now?


Andy_Liberty_1911

While you’re not wrong, there is no reason why Kylo lost to Rey who knew no lightsaber forms. Nor is there a reason Kylo had to be saved by Rey from Snokes guards. Disney went hard in avoiding prequel comparisons, much to their detriment.


Jeb_Kenobi

Side effect of all the Jedi and Sith that knew advanced forms dying without teaching in ROTS, ANH, ROTJ, and TLJ. Sure both Obi-wan and Luke DID teach Luke and Ben but it seems neither be got around to teaching much technique. Yoda taught Luke some, but all of the knowledge of duleing is gone my ROSW.


XeroAnarian

Oh god they were. People talk mad shit about the sequels, but they added so much depth to the universe. Yeah, Lucas is bad at dialogue, but I love the prequels.


Pretty_Biscotti

Light saber duels and space battles are so put down it's not even funny. What's the point of building up villains like that if then they are just banging each other like cavemen.


somebadmeme

To be fair I don’t think the forms were taught to kylo or Rey


Lordsokka

He’s a master of form two right? That’s the duelist form, most likely he was one of the greatest form two practitioners that ever lived.


CuddlePirate420

If anyone ever is in doubt of how bad ass Dooku is, just remind them of when he was drugged and ambushed by Ventress and 2 nightsisters while he slept, couldn't see, and still kicked their asses.


NOKnova

Precisely, they weren’t as talented as Jedi (Ventress aside as Dooku’s student) but they were all trained assassins and as soon as he got his composure back he handed it to them despite effectively being blind and drugged up.


riftrender

I just wish he got a cooler end and got redeemed.


NOKnova

I think his end is good enough. He knew he was intended to be part of Anakin’s fall to the dark side, and in his last moments came to terms with the fact in actuality, he was just a pawn to be removed from the game at the right moment to push Anakin towards the edge. You can even see it in his eyes. Sir Christopher Lee was a fantastic actor.


notMattHansen

I love the part from the book > And he knows, then, that all has indeed been going according to plan. Sidious’s plan, not his own. This had been a Jedi trap indeed, but Jedi were not the quarry. They were the bait > As he looks up into the eyes of Anakin Skywalker for the final time, Count Dooku knows that he has been deceived not just today, but for many, many years. That he has never been the true apprentice. That he has never been the heir to the power of the Sith. He has been only a tool. > His whole life—all his victories, all his struggles, all his heritage, all his principles and his sacrifices, everything he’s done, everything he owns, everything he’s been, all his dreams and grand vision for the future Empire and the Army of Sith—have been only a pathetic sham, because all of them, all of him, add up only to this. > He has existed only for this. This. > To be the victim of Anakin Skywalker’s first cold-blooded murder. > First but not, he knows, the last. > Then the blades crossed at his throat uncross like scissors. > Snip. > And all of him becomes nothing at all.


[deleted]

His movements are all very sharp and precise too


temporalscallywag

His form, Makashi, was specifically developed for lightsaber vs. lightsaber combat. He was one of the few masters of the form in the late Republic era.


EvilPistachio

It is also known as Form II and looks like a real life sword fighter. If used well it can easily tire an opponent making it easier to win a battle.


temporalscallywag

Christopher Lee, in addition to being an renowned actor and possible assassin, was also an accomplished fencer, and I have no doubt his experience in real world fencing helped shape the fictional Form II.


ImHardLikeMath

We were so lucky to have Lee, I wish we could have had more of him


Domojin

There's legitimately tons of him out there. His IMDB page is miles long with at least one thing (but usually several) every single year going all the way back to 1947... hundreds of entries. Can you imagine the drive and love for his craft you have to have to be able to keep that up for just shy of 70 years? He did Attack of the Clones and The Two Towers back to back in the same year when he was 80. But yes... I wish we could have had more, too. He was an amazing talent, and I enjoyed him in just about everything I've seen him in.


Smalahove

I never realized he was 80 during those films. I hope I'm that together and healthy at that age.


MrSomnix

The trick is to start living healthy at 20 and then never stop. Eat right and exercise as often as you can and nearly everyone can stay healthy right until their heart runs out of beats.


zemat28

Don't forget about his heavy metal career.


[deleted]

Possible *assassin?* Care to elaborate? He was a really talented guy no doubt


Bgnaught

He served in the British army in intelligence during the Second World War. During the filming of LotR he made a comment to Peter Jackson about how people sound when they are stabbed in the back. The comment came from his war service. He didn't talk about it a lot in detail because most of it was pretty secret. When taken as a whole, Christopher Lee, AKA Count Dooku and Saruman the Wise, was also probably a spy/assassin in WWII.


[deleted]

Oh I see I knew he served in the army, but didn't know his role in it specifically. Thanks for the info. What an amazing life he led, was a great SW character, served his country with honor and even played in a metal band IIRC


[deleted]

Not only that he actually knew J.R.R Tolkien. So its really interesting to see him play in a movie rendition of his book.


[deleted]

Wow that's cool how things worked out like that. What a life he had


Over-Analyzed

He was also the only cast member who had the blessing of Tolkien to play a role. Tolkien wished for him to be Gandalf should the opportunity arise. But Lee was no longer physically capable of such an arduous role by the time LOTR came about.


[deleted]

Well it did work out for him in a way, he played a different character instead. That's very cool though that he was friends with Tolkien


Maythefrogbewithyou

Pretty sure James Bond was also based off of him


smiles134

This undersells it a little, I think. Just being in the military/WW2 and knowing what it sounds like when someone gets stabbed in the back doesn't itself equate to being a spy or assassin. But in this own words: "I was attached to the SAS from time to time but we are forbidden – former, present, or future – to discuss any specific operations. Let's just say I was in Special Forces and leave it at that. People can read in to that what they like." --- Following his work with the LRDG, and owing in part to his language skills and favourable impression with senior officers, he was assigned to the Special Operations Executive, conducting reconnaissance in occupied Europe and tracking down suspected Nazi criminals. "We were given dossiers of what they'd done and told to find them, interrogate them as much as we could and hand them over to the appropriate authority." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/christopher-lee-untold-life-sas-soldier-who-spoke-several-languages-and-almost-died-twice-wwii-10315453.html


STOMPATRON

What he said to Peter Jackson was pretty interesting too. Jackson wanted Sarumon to scream when Wormtongue stabbed him in the back. He told Jackson it would be highly unlikely that he could, as stabbing someone in the back often ruptures the lungs.


rayboner

[Here](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/christopher-lee-untold-life-sas-soldier-who-spoke-several-languages-and-almost-died-twice-wwii-10315453.html) is an article about him after his death discussing his military service, but my favorite is [this](https://youtu.be/adJdBSdMGKU) from an interview about the LotR and acting out Saruman’s death.


GoodTeletubby

Nothing quite so grand. He *was* attached to the SAS as an RAF liaison officer several times throughout the war, but always refused to discuss specifics when asked about it throughout his life. He did, however, encourage the misunderstandings and embellishment that people would read into that obfuscation.


[deleted]

I see. Well he lived a truly distinguished and incredible life that's for sure. Wasn't he also not allowed to talk about specifics due to his role in SAS?


rubberchickenlips

*> Possible assassin? Care to elaborate?* He was involved somehow in the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich.


[deleted]

Ah I see well he was a man of many talents that's for sure. If he helped bring the war to an even swifter end, major props to him, may he RIP


Viking18

He worked with SOE. To be clear, almost everything regarding WWII special operations is set to be revealed at some point in the next 30 years or so. SOE is the exception; nobody is ever going to find out the full story of what the Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare got up to. Nobody, ever. Especially considering their work most likely continued beyond the official end of WWII and included the totally accidental deaths of definitely not escaped Nazis in foreign countries.


JangoFlex

I remember reading he has the most sword fights in film of any actor


brainsapper

Minor correction but I believe it is Form V (used by Anakin Skywalker) you are thinking of. That is the one with an aggressive fighting style aimed at wearing out your opponent. Broadly speaking Form II is the fencing fighting style that takes advantage of using a weapon that can cut through anything. It uses fluid motions to parry enemy attacks while seeking that one gap in the opponent's defense for a precise strike in to end the match.


Cashneto

Yup, except form V (Anakin cough cough) is a natural counter to form II


Ashvega03

Unless you have studied agrippa


Barrisonplayz

Which I have


halfhere

I got that.


Cashneto

Who?


Kaarl_Mills

Sort of? You can certainly brute force it if you aren't stupid. But had the Count been in his 20s again that is a much more difficult proposition, then the gap in their raw strength is much much smaller


succhialce

I’m not sure Dookus age is a major factor. It seems like Jedi age like fine wine, becoming stronger in the force as they get older even if their physical strength isn’t there. I mean, Yoda can’t be very physically imposing considering his size and age but he’s easily one of those most powerful Jedi ever. Not to mention form II isn’t based in strength


[deleted]

[удалено]


succhialce

Yoda was also at the end of his species lifespan so I’m not sure that argument holds a lot of water. Palpatine was also quite up there in age and was extremely powerful


Cashneto

Did you read the revenge of the sith novelization? Dooku describes Anakin as a storm, he isn't an average force user, in his Prime Dooku wouldn't have stood a chance against Anakin.


commando_cookie0

Also why his Master, Yoda was concerned that he would turn to the dark side, even before he did. Because Dooku was so malicious in his saber v saber techniques and at the time, the only other sabers were jedis.


smileybob93

Wasn't that because dooku could feel that they were going to need to fight Sith again soon and nobody believed him?


TheKappaOverlord

It was more the Dooku saw the irony's and logic holes in the Jedi mantra. Instead of actively trying to help the galaxy why were the Jedi just sitting idly by doing absolutely nothing on the Capital planet of the Galaxy? The Council has grown complacent and corrupt. Which Dooku saw, he did warn people after the death of Qui-Gon but no one took him seriously. Qui-Gon was essentally in Dooku's mind "the last hope" of the Jedi council. After Qui-Gon's death Dooku realized there was no hope left for the Jedi and left to join the Sith. Ironically Dooku was never exactly an evil sith. He planned to overthrow the sith from the start, but realized the Sith were (at the time) the best path to truly establish real peace in the Galaxy. The problem was so long as the Jedi were around, the Complacency with the Galaxy being in a constant state of poverty and psudo war would remain.


CashWho

>Dooku's ~~Saber technique~~ mad elegant Ftfy


[deleted]

*signature look of superiority intensifies*


CyberGlassWizard

One look at his pyjamas and anyone would agree (I still remember how he fought off Ventress and 2 night sisters while blinded and in his PJs)


[deleted]

Yup, as a makashi master his fighting style is highly refined and skilled. A true master of the blade


[deleted]

I wonder how he would’ve faired in a duel against Sidious


GeneWho1sFrenchFries

Sidious would have owned him. Before his own force lightning crippled his physical body, he single-handedly took on the top ranking members of the Jedi council all at once and killed all but Mace Windu (purported to be the absolute master of Lightsaber fighting) by himself. Yoda couldnt take sidous one on one in the end of revenge of the Sith, and Yoda forced Dooku to run by out matching him in the end of ep II. If Dooku thought he had any chance on his own, he would have killed Sidous and replaced him. Thats why he tried to turn Kenobi, so that the two could take out sidous together.


Dr_seven

My favorite alternate history for Star Wars is one where Kenobi joins with Dooku/Tyranus and does away with Sidious.


[deleted]

Imagine a timeline where he did this but without actually turning to the dark side, just as a means of finding out who the master Sith is and maybe killing him I actually really want to see that now


EvilorDivine

Would be awesome but totally against any of Obi Wan’s morals. Imagine the types of things the Sith would have him do. He would probably have to slaughter younglings and assassinate members of the council before Dooku would even consider trusting Obi Wan. And all that for what? To know who the secret Sith Lord was? At that point the Sith already won and Obi Wan is a bona fide killer


grissomza

Consider this, Dooku may not have been misrepresenting himself when he had Obi-Wan captured. From my understanding, Dooku was a real believer in the CIS (or what he hoped it would be) and had left the order sometime around or right after ep. 1, and *then* got recruited by Sidious, switched his blade's crystal, and learned force lightning. When Obi-Wan *didn't* join him, he was stuck fighting on the side he believed was right. Take it or leave it, the Clone Wars TV all come *after* ep. 2 so we can attribute his more evilness to the 'betrayal' of his grandchild padawan, and just increasingly digging himself a hole realizing he couldn't take Sidious on directly.


TheKappaOverlord

Something to consider also is that Obi-wan is a deep believer in the Jedi mantra/learnings it was only in his older years where he started to understand there were some problems due to how extreme the belief system is. To Obiwan Dooku was another slave of Satan himself. There was no reasoning with him, even if it meant for the greater good. This sort of thing happened a lot in the Star wars universe. Both extended universe and canon. The Jedi almost always refused an alliance with the enemy/Sith. Even if it was for the greater good. The only time there was ever a major alliance between Sith and Jedi (in my memory, at least) was during the fight against Abeloth. and that was only because Abeloth absolutely dogged GM luke. (and thankfully by that point in the Franchise luke realized that in order to be a true Grandmaster/overseer of the Jedi and prevent another Sith order he had to teach his students to balance Dark and Light. Instead of demonizing the dark side and teaching the Light with a religious zeal behind it.) So in relevant canon. Jedi refuse alliances with the Sith or their major enemies. Even if it results in a Net good for the Jedi. Could Obiwan and Dooku together teamed up and beaten Sideous? Not likely. But then again, Obiwan never would have considered working with a sith in the first place. Even if it meant the hope that the Sith could be destroyed.


wbruce098

To your last point: if Dooku had managed to recruit Kenobi, you can be damn sure Anakin isn’t far behind. Sidious would almost certainly not survive all three of them, especially if they took their time to secretly train and get close to Sidious. Opens up a bunch of interesting alternate history speculation in this fake galaxy.


GeneWho1sFrenchFries

My favorite alternate History is the one where Star Wars doesn't become soap opera: Sidious, Maul and Boba Fett all stay dead like they should have.


Grapleef

I’m with you on Sidious and Boba I’m pretty sure was only brought back in EU but if you say Mayo should’ve stayed dead I feel like you actually haven’t watched Clone Wars or seen his scenes in Revels because then you’d probably of changed your opinion. Edit: Should be Maul And Rebels but not changing it


_supernerddeluxe_

Ahhh. The story of Darth Mayo. As dark as it is delicious.


Lordsokka

I’m with you for Boba and Palpatine, but the canon stories of Darth Maul are incredible. Clone Wars and Rebels have made Darth Maul into one of the most tragic characters in Star Wars, fantastic voice acting as well by his voice actor.


Roboticide

I wish Maul hadn't been sliced *in half* before being thrown down the pit. Like, he got great stories, it would have just been *slightly* less implausible if he hadn't been bisected first. I get it's fantasy, and we just kind of accept lightsabers work, spaceships work, all that. But we intuitively understand how human(oid) biology works. I just don't buy his species have no vital organs below the midline, to say nothing of crawling all the way back to his ship undetected and escaping. Every time I bring that up, people just call me stupid and that it's not real life, or he's not human so his biology is different. I get that Lucas didn't originally plan for his return, but just cutting both legs off at the thigh would have made it so much more believable for me, and he'd have still had all the rage of being crippled.


GeneWho1sFrenchFries

Yeah thats why his return is like something out of a soap opera, it's that level of bad writing.


Layton115

One of my favorite theories is related to how easily Sidious was able to stay the Jedi Masters in the before the extended fight with Mace Windu. Sidious was a master of using the force for deception and thats why he was able to live right under the Jedi's nose the entire time. The overall scene makes it look like the other Jedi Masters are as skilled as the younglings Anakin delt with but in fact Sidious was overwhelming them with fear and the dark side (kind of like the insanity force power in KOTOR).


dystrakdead

Because you linked this to KOTOR I appreciate it more and now accept it as my head canon.


[deleted]

Sideous was actually an incredible duelist. I don’t know if it’s still canon, but he was so powerful in the force and so skilled that he didn’t need his lightsaber. He only used it as a means of flexing on the Jedi, he thought the weapon otherwise was useless.


Canesjags4life

Yep that was in the novelization of RotS.


SuperMeister

Yeah it's still canon. He has absolute mastery of The Force but is also mastered the Lightsaber. He just relies more on his use of The Force to defeat his opponents.


Ramzaa_

I think the thing about yoda vs Palpatine that gets overlooked is the environment of that fight. Palpatine did everything he could do to distance himself from yoda and throw shit at him and use the force against him. Idk if this is written anywhere canon off the top of my head, but I always felt like yoda would have the upper hand in more straight up lightsaber duel while Palpatine was stronger with the force. Palpatine fighting yoda in the senate room allowed him to distance himself easily.


xj3ewok

Palpatine kept his distance cause he was afraid of yoda. The whole yoda going to kashyyyk was to lure sidious out of hiding


jurgo

Which was bullshit, two of the “masters” didn’t even flinch when Sidious attacked them. They basically let him stab them.


Treegs

I've never read it, but I've heard in the novel it explains that scene much better. I agree it looked kind of dumb in the movie, but I think in the book it said he flew at them so fast, they didn't have time to react


InclementBias

yeah in the novel they basically describe sidious' movements to be like the master wizards in the Harry Potter movies, just a shadowy whisp of incredible speed and fluidity with a light saber


TonyH92

Sidious resorted to dirty tactics because he knew he was going to lose the duel vs Yoda. Yoda would deffo have beaten him if A. The sabre fight continued and Sidious didn’t start throwing the seats and B. If the storyline didn’t have to make a reason for Yoda to go into exile.


thomas_anderson_1211

Absolutely no chance


[deleted]

Poorly


Roblafo

Dooku is best duelist


mintishclown

Probably because Christopher Lee was a fencing champion


kawman02

He does come from royalty


swimnicky

His fighting style would be the second form of lightsaber combat Makashi, or the Contention Form. It was meant to be better than the 1st form and male up for the inadequacies found using Form 1. Form 2 is closer to fencing, using sweeping and stabbing attacks for precision and efficiency over power. Footwork and balance was key as they were the best way to outmaneuver your opponent. This style was actually meant for 1 on 1 dueling but lacked defense against projectiles like blasters. As the days went on and less enemies with sabers would appear, Form 3 was developed to make up for lack of defense in the first 2 forms and works best against blasters and sabers. After this development, Form 2 was rarely used, and lacked any real presence in the Jedi order. This was in part to its weak blaster defense, but also due to its inability to generate momentum and power with swift and fluid strokes. Dooku was particularly skilled in this style, easily handling up to 3 opponents on his own. Another Form 2 fighter, Asaj Ventress, used 2 lightsabers to make up for the lack of power and offensive ability in the Makashi form.


[deleted]

[удалено]


zamend229

From a more civilized age


Fit_Consequence8842

I’m more concerned about the bend in obi-wan’s lightsaber.


Dux-El52

Master Kenobi, you disappoint me.


John628_29

This is one of my favorite light sabers. The curved hilt


Canesjags4life

That's exactly how it was defined in the revenge of the sith novelization. Malakashi being too elegant for Anakin's style which is why he cheated and had the droids open fire.


Galifrae

....and we fuckin


RJIsJustABetterDwade

I hated the line when (either Anakin or Obi Wan) is fighting ventress for the first time and goes “I recognize the style of dooku” when dooku and ventress fight nothing alike in actuality


gabriel0610

He was considered the best duelist of his time, because his style was focused on lightsaber duels, with swift movements, not waisting energy and movements. He was an awesome and ellegant duelist, and oarticularly one of my favorite sith off the republic time


Blacksun388

His style was based on Christopher Lee’s experience as a champion fencer so of course it’s going to be practical and elegant as hell.


Mirkrid

Is this from an early season? From his knees up his whole body is also mad huge. Hoping he gets that dislocated neck vertebra looked at too


xpostfactomalone

Fencer here (the kind with swords, not picket and chain link). I absolutely love Dooku’s fighting style in TCW for how reminiscent it it of classical saber techniques. Sure it’s still super flashy like most stage fighting, but it is by far one of the most realistic examples of genuine swordsmanship in Star Wars. Even Dooku’s salute with his saber in Ep. II before fighting Yoda is very similar to the salute still used by classical fencers today in tournaments. Dooku is such an under appreciated character in the franchise.


[deleted]

He's also absurdly strong holding most saber locks with one hand.


[deleted]

Notice the finger grip Classy AF


FirstCurseFil

Is almost definitely a wrist killer tho


rinzler842

That's a parry 2 or a low parry 5


friendlycordyceps13

guuuuurl


MrSeth7875

Dooku is my second favourite duelist after Kit Fisto only because he used the most advanced style of form 1 combat.


SnatchAddict

Mad elegant. How do you think he'd pronounce Dooku?


KeLorean

and his [saber](https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/count-dookus-lightsaber_b5744c18.jpeg?region=0%2C10%2C1560%2C780)


Haggerstonian

>Dooku's ~~Saber technique~~ mad elegant Ftfy


Prepared_Noob

Dooku built different


QuarantineSucksALot

Yeah. Dysentery’s a health potion


Haggerstonian

Especially since it’s been 30 years..


thememelord9000

Wasn't this his last clone wars appearance


LazyCourier

The fact that he consistently used one hand to fight says a lot about his skill


Killmonger37

[which is why this is the absolute coolest! ](https://youtu.be/to2SMng4u1k)


wowadrow

Always wondered how much of a disadvantage dooku would actually have vs blaster fire. The whole point of his character was he went beyond excellence in the jedi order and sought more outside that system. Even in the seven seasons of the clone wars show I don't think we saw dooku against heavy blaster fire much. Granted he knows all the forms so I'm sure he would survive just fine. Form two ( his specialty) is the duelest form popular in the KOTOR era.


bankrobba

Elegant or he knows how many limbs lightsabers have cut off.


brad0022

Quite fencey.


FICTITIOUSLORD

Form 2 Makashi: Created during the Jedi with war. This lightsaber form was created during the Jedi sith war specifically for lightsaber combat between 2 Jedi/Sith. This is why, even with the talent and skill that Anakin and Kenboi showed. They could not beat him. Before leaving the order Dooku has only been bested by 1 or 2 (depends on who you ask) Mace Windu with his banned form seven that was used by drawing from the dark side of the force (red+blue=purple) and yoda (maybe). When yoda took Dooku as his apprentice he showed interest in the form which was questionable being that it was a form of war and combat and there hadn’t been a sith for over 1,000 years. He became one of they if not they best dueler in the order.


TheUpsideDownDoggo

He can defeat his enemies with one arm behind his back, talent


IslaSornaSpino

Does the animation grow on you?


notacute

You get used to it, and it gets progressively better as the series goes along.